Knowledge Fight - #889: The Debate Of The Century, Part 2

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

In this installment, Dan and Jordan finish up their coverage of the debate that finally settled the question, once and for all, about whether January 6 was a false flag.  

I Ready Ready No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no It's time to pray. I have great respect for knowledge. I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys. Shane Me are the bad guys knowledge. I'm fighting. And enjoy knowledge fight. Need money. And the advantage. And the advantage. And the advantage.

Stop it. And the advantage. And the advantage. And the advantage. It's time to pray. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season.

And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the end of the season. And the We're go dudes. It's sit around We're should put the all-dress lean and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. Oh, indeed. We are down. Jordan down What's up? Quick question for you. What do you have what's your bright spot today, buddy? Um my bright spot we spent a bit of time before the show time about it

We did but there's a new season of traders fantastic and the bean town prince CT is up in there and he's killing it I'm gonna be honest with you. I have no clue what's going on right now. Everything, he's lives up to the promise of what CT on this show could be. Yep. I'm excited for him to be confused, continuously. It's gonna be awesome. It is the best. It's just great.

But anyway, same as last time, we will have to get through it and I got to cut this short, but I'm excited. I enjoyed the beginning of that show and I hope for good things for everybody involved in deep and in their Future endeavors and never never enough to say about how great Alan Cummings is. Yeah, just so good Damn it. I said we don't have time. I'm sorry, but I noticed a change in overall wardrobe aesthetic Seemed like last season he was going with a lot of weird plaids. That's true. There's been less of that so far this season There's been less tartan. Yeah, which I think is bold Yeah, he's great Alan Cummings great. I'm a furgist. Stan. Oh my God. So great. Um, just his beard watch it. Well, amblin' into screen. I go, oh, look at you. Yep.

Suttledies. What's your rights? My bright spot is scheduled another tattoo, my man. Oh, yeah, it's been a while. What do you get? I'm getting a band right around my right arm, filling in this last bit. Oh, I'm going to finally get that barbed wire you've been talking about. No. Oh. No, it's actually the four elements from Legend of Korra. My wife drew a beautiful, shh, the whole thing. Are those different elements than ours?

Well, Earth, air, fire, and then then TV those are the four elements in real life, I believe Yep, it's the same. No, I'm excited. It's gonna be fun. Nice. I got a whole session It's a little bit more expensive than I wanted but that'll happen You know, it's you'd you'd always rather pay more than less for a tattoo in my yeah in my estimation given that it's a permanent thing It's kind of tough to like be like I'm gonna go with a cut rate. Yeah We get discount on this tap. Yep. Well, I look forward to seeing how it turns out. Yep congrats. I'm excited I'm gonna get tattoo a Fergus on my chest. Oh, that's a good one so weird underneath the beard Is my chest here will be his beard. Yes, that's a good one. So weird underneath the beard. Is my chest here will

be his beard. Yes, that'll be great. So Jordan, tonight we have an episode to go over. Let's do it. Talking about the culmination and summation and participation in the rest of the debate that Alex had with the Crasenstein brothers, Destiny, Share, Glenn Greenwald, and, Oh, Darren Beade, I forgot. You're very forgettable. The whole in the universe that is Darren Beade. So we're gonna go over the rest of that and talk about it. And I'll be honest, I have a little bit of a feeling

of, oh my God, we're doing too much. Sure. Because we had the Jimmy Doer episodes and those were pretty long. Yeah. And then we had your interview with Ronsen. That was a tight hour 10, man. No, that's true. I kept that tight.

It adds up when the second part of the Jimmy Doer episode was two hours and 40 minutes. Sure, that's true. And then our first part of the debate coverage was three and a half hours. Sure. It's a little bit much. So I'm definitely going to say we're not going to have a Wednesday episode this week. Yeah, that's and a half hours. Sure. It's a little bit much. So I'm definitely gonna say we're not gonna have a Wednesday episode this week. Yeah, that's definitely a good idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm considering skipping Friday even also just to give a little bit of, but then the Iowa caucus is on Monday as we're recording this on Sunday. It's tomorrow. Sure. So it feels like you maybe can't take that much time away. Is there anything to say about the Iowa caucus though? It hasn't happened yet. Trick could go wild.

That's about the worst to say. Should it go crazy? Yeah, okay. You do hear it from Laura Lumer. They're using bio the control of the weather. Oh, that's right. They're making it cold so people won't vote for Trump. You got it.

That's actually a very brilliant thing. See, we have important stuff like that to discuss. Yeah, old people don't like the cold. That's because their skin is wiggly. That's how I know I'm old. Yep. I don't like the cold. Don't like the cold. So yeah, we'll probably do something about the Iowa caucus on Friday, but I don't know. Game time decision if we punt that to Monday. Just goes we're doing. Wait. It's a lot. It's a lot. Oh, another point I wanted to make

little correction from the first episode When I was talking about destinies early Path towards this debating chef. I brought up John Tron because I was kind of like the debate that that turned him the broke When I mentioned him I said that he was on game grumps the YouTube channel And people have corrected and I didn't realize this because I don't know all the intricate details, but he wasn't on that channel at the time, and I shouldn't have associated the two of them, because apparently that channel is fine,

and it shouldn't be characterized by this person who's kind of a dick. Right, right, right, go. I unfairly kind of made it seem like, you know, he was, he was a central part of it while he was saying racist the infobic extricable from each other right right right. I should have been clear about that and that's that's my bad. That's good So let's get down to business on this Jordan. This the rest of this garbage, but first let's say hello to some new wanks That's great. So first I listened to 57,464 minutes of knowledge right this year, and now I can kill God.

Thank you so much, you're now policy-walk. I'm a policy-walk. Thank you very much. Is that Gore? I believe we have to attack and dethrone him. Is your not gonna give me credit for Gore reference? I actually don't know that reference. It's not like I have from Thor who kills Gods.

Gore? Isn't that his name? Gore, the God killer, is that his name? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I thought it was. Wait, his name... Gore? Isn't that his name? Gore, the God killer, is that his name? Nice name? I don't know. I don't know. I thought it was. Wait, his name was Gore?

I don't know. It rhymes with the word. I'm sorry. Next, Jess, Dryden is a hellscape and we should get out. Thank you so much for now, Paulosy Wong. I'm a Paulosy Wong. Thank you very much. Next, all hail, Bazzazion.

Thank you so much for your now, Paulosy Wong. I'm a Paulosy Wong. Thank you very much. Thank you, next, Austin Brill. Thank you so much for your now,, policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Okay, next Austin Brill, thank you so much for now, policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk. Thank you very much. And Ian Nelson, Mary Christmas, thank you so much for now, policy wonk. I'm a policy wonk.

Thank you very much. And we got Tekken Crite in the mixture. So thank you so much to Wanks Unite, go vote for my dad, Terry Sportsman, for the Green Bay Packers fan Hall of Fame. You can vote once a day until January 31st. Help me get him inducted. Just search Packers fan Hall of Fame in Google. Thank you so much. You're now a technocrat. I'm a policy walk. I'm going to help you in my mentality.

I'm going to help you in my mentality. Someone, someone, someone, sat on my, sent me a book and a poop. Daddy Shark. Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Jar Jar Binks has a Caribbean daddy shark. Bum bum bum bum bum bum. Jar Jar Banks has a Caribbean black action. He's a loser little little teeny baby. I don't want to hate black people. I renounce Jesus Christ.

Thank you so much. Thank you very much. Pulling for your dad. I think that's a fake name. I mean, I, here's what I saw. I read the email and I was like, I will get anyone's dad into any hall of fame if it all possible Yeah, I can't vote because green Bay, you know, if Chicago. It's legally

Committed a felony. It's constantly legally against the law for me to vote for anything in green Bay I have a little update. I looked it up and you're a fucking asshole because Gore the God butcher is the name of the character I wasn't I wouldn't know that was the name. I won up. Do you want a nerd thing? You win. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You win.

So we had a little out of context drop to begin us here because I thought this was delightful. Glenn, you're a well-wish-backed journalist. You look at the name. He was from the world. Oh, God is ass. That was pretty snippy. Yeah, that's fair.

That's fair. Good work. So we start things off here and it's about where we left off and they're talking, talking a little bit about media censorship and that being the real way you steal an election. Right. And part of this is because they all want to pretend that they didn't like get into dominion voting machine. Sure, sure, sure, sure.

Because all of that looks bad and Fox News got sued and all that. And the people who are pushing those conspiracy theories have had to recant in court that like sure, I know we're just fucking around. Let's just pretend that that didn't happen. We'll forget about it and everybody moves. We'll move into another thing that we're actually that's real. That's the real thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, until next time, whatever, the more meaningful type of

interference is the censorship is all of the other tools that have been deployed in order to rig the election. I think that's more significant. And then the sort of more hyperbolic claims regarding, you know, hacking the machines and so forth. The climate was now these kinds of things. So so then you agree that Trump was wrong when he said it was a stolen election. Well it depends what specific claim he's used. Let's say when that pushing that dominion that

dominion was switching votes and it caused him Georgia. that I don't believe in the dominions. Yeah, not on either. It was. It was a line. It was lying. No, no, no. It was a line that he was wrong. He was lying. But he weren't actually honest here. The point is, is that, is that the State Department runs around the world looking at everybody

else's elections. And the number one thing you get sanctions for is taking a candidate off the ballot. And that's the Democrats doing right now. And America sees that. The Democrats are not doing it. That's going to go to the courts. The public is actually not going to go to the courts. The Republicans actually filed a court for the Colorado.

Three-point Democrats, Secretary of State and Court and in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any,

in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any,

in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in any, in? Democrats? No, no, no, no, no, no. How many were Democrats out of six? There's a map. Oh, how many? How many were Republicans? No, how many were Republicans filed a two? I don't know. Five of the six people that filed a suit and Colorado killed to get Trump off the ballot were Republicans.

So stop saying, Democrats. I just don't. Glenn, Glenn, Glenn, Glenn, Glenn, don't want Trump off the ballot. Glenn's actually responding. Horse shit. OK. OK. So we started off a little more action-packed than where we began last time. want Trump off the ballot. Lens actually responding. Or shit. Okay. Okay.

So we started off a little more action pack than where we began last time because Alex is already pretty drunk. I'm pretty excited about that. He disappears a few times and he's clearly drinking more and smoking cigarettes. I assume it's on camera. What? The bait itself? Yeah.

I mean, he's not, they don't follow him when he leaves. No, that would be so good. That would be nice. If there's like a body cam on it, like a WWE thing, like they followed him right behind you. That'd be great. So Alex is claimed repeatedly on air that he has evidence and it's been proven that the Dominion voting machines are part of the stealing of the 2020 election.

For him to pretend otherwise because it's inconvenient in this debate and I might get him sued is really pathetic. Stick your guns young man. So Darren stands as interesting because I haven't listened to thousands of hours if it had him talk so I don't know all the stupid shit that he said over the years. What I can do though is I can go over the articles that he's aggregated on revolver news and see what kind of a message they sent. So we got a headline here written by white nationalist Patrick Howley from National

File, a website that Alex secretly owns that says quote exclusive government agency believes dominion uses cellular modems experts say could wreak havoc on an election sure seems to maybe implying those machines were involved in the seal it could happen well here's an article from zero hedge the funders of the debate were listening to that those put on revolver news quote dominion whistle blower testifies and on complete fraud at Detroit voting center. Huh, that's weird. Here's an interesting article from a site called creative destruction media, which is just a blog editorial with the headline quote, Obamian, Obamian Pelosi didn't win elections in the last decade.

It was Dominion really seems like a sentiment Darin wouldn't be supporting. It's here. Wow. Linking to an obscure blog, making that claim, that's strange. We're doing it for money. Oh shit, I should have said, we believe it. Here's another one, quote, exclusive breaking news

both of those exclamation points. Report back allegations of fraud against Dominion voting systems. Or quote, cracking release, power files, Georgia lawsuit, over voter fraud, Dominion, only 12,000 votes needed to overturn election. Man, it seems like Darren's website was pushing quite a bit of this stuff

that he doesn't believe is true at all. That's strange. Has everybody noticed yet that the people who are designated as Kraken's are usually bad? Mm. Well, I mean, it's a monster who's used as a weapon, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Mm. I'm just saying, like, a monster who's used as a weapon, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hmm. I'm just saying, like, maybe that should be an easy signal for us. Was there a nickname? Is it the Kraken? We just go, ha ha, Koccha. No. Was the Kraken also, I believe it was an antagonist. Like, it wasn't used by the hero that story.

No, no, not a good guy. No. Evil, evil Kraken. Evil weapon beast. Giant, evil weapon beast, evil weapon beast. Yes. Yeah So Ian wants to get things a little bit on track and so there's a question and Everything just falls the fuck apart. Hmm. Yeah, he called a happy entrapment day talking about January 6th

You guys think that it was an entrapment. Sorry about Trump saying that I 100% Donald Trump and trapped all those poor people to be there. That's true. They probably thought they probably thought he'd bail them out. That's why they need part of them like they did every other person. Yes, they thought he would part. They could be in a crime. We want a 10 day investigation.

That's why I said be peaceful. Yeah, because Trump is always calling for support. He also called for the new fight like hell and Giuliani said that. Fight like hell means for our freedom and our vote and our country. Okay. And people can say things that they don't mean in order. Hey, when you go to high school football game, but apparently they go, and the shooters go fight, fight, fight, fight. Try all by combat that that doesn't mean anything either.

That's a legal term. I think the thing that's the thing that's most instructive to see what Donald Trump wanted to happen that day is that when he sat down and he watched the violence unfolding on TV, when he saw the people fighting with cops when he saw when he got notification that Ashley Babid had been shot, Donald Trump did not take steps to stop the violence that day. Instead, him and Giuliani made phone calls to senators and congressmen trying to get them to stall the vote. What do you guys think ethically about people in politics telling people to go fight. You find it to be what is leading?

Look, we're not a neutered population. I mean, we have Democrats. During the impeachment for this, they shut it down when finally Trump put a five minute video on a Democrat saying attack him at grocery stores, attack him against a suspect. Attack, we need, we need civil insurrection. What do you mean?

I mean, I mean, I don't even think about the term battleground state. Yeah, you mean? I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean, Donald Trump has consistently attacked and undermined the electoral process with absolutely no good reason. Oh, it's the Democrats. No, it was a Russian agent. And then Democrats fall for these two on Russian agent. And sick. The deep state on him. Yeah, four years, the administration that every single day that he made all the Trump

agents, any of this rush Trump's a Russian agent. No, but that's why he wasn't convicted or charged to be a crowd boy. They were the ones saying that the Americans With crimes with Other Russians, was he charged with the crime for that Hillary is trying for the crime for that? They tried Hillary tried wait, but the Hillary is just charging false they have a charge of Interaction why is

I'm not gonna steal the election why didn't he get in the Hillary is Hillary? I didn't get rubs could sell the election. Why is Hillary saying Trump's gonna sell the election? Why was it Trump's? Why was it Trump and Dyson? Why is Hillary saying Trump's gonna sell the election? Why is Hillary saying Trump's gonna sell the election? He got it. I want this to last forever.

That would be good TV, but I'm not gonna do it. Well, he won't stop. I will do it. I can't finish this. What we need to do. Guys, what we need to do, listen to me for a moment. We are. That we don't speak over each other. What we do is we listen to do, what we need to do, guys, what we need to do, no, I do it. Listen to me for a moment. We don't speak over each other. What we do is we listen to each other.

Take turns. It becomes way better. A lot of questions. I agree. What's in my statement? What is my statement? Is it okay that Hillary is on TV this week? Three times I saw, say, Trump's going to steal the election.

Hillary is going to steal out to rent free in your head right now. That's true. So that clip is really interesting because you can see how Alex's brain works. Yeah. The clip starts with Ian introducing the question of if J6 was in trap met. Obviously, it's Alex's job to say that it was and that the globalist did it to make Trump and his supporters look bad so they couldn't get there very cool and reasonable demand of an imaginary 10 day investigation that Alex insists is in the constitution.

Right. Incidentally, that's not true. Ted Cruz is arguing that there should be a 10-day investigation, which was based on what happened in the 1876 election between Rutherford, Beheys, and Samuel Tilden. In that case, three states had sent dueling sets of electors for certification, whereas with Trump, no state actually sent two slates. Trump and his allies tried to get and send fraudulent slates of electors to the states, or from the states, but they hadn't been approved. So the circumstances are completely different,

and there's zero reason to think that Trump was entitled to some sort of 10-day investigation. Yeah. There already been plenty of investigation. He just didn't like the results. Yeah. So Destiny introduces the idea that it was Trump that entrapped the followers who thought he would have their backs if they got arrested. Alex pushed back on that by saying that Trump told them to be peaceful. The fight like hellline has evoked, and Alex says the people can use fight in nonviolent context.

Up to this he's a little slurry, but this is a completely normal thought path. Yeah, some of the things he's saying aren't true, but they're direct rebuttals to the things that are being said to him. So it definitely brings up the fact that Trump did nothing to stop the violence and this indicates his position more than whatever words he's using, like his action.

Actions are more than words. And almost as if he exists as a defensive crutch for Alex, Ian comes in as the moderator to ask a totally new question and what they think of politicians saying that people should fight. This allows Alex to again restate his normal position that fight could be set in a nonviolent context. So in effect, what Ian has achieved is to undo the point the destiny made. Yeah, Alex can reset to the point before something came up that he couldn't really handle.

Beauty comes in and gets a little pedantic by asking about what about battleground states. To which Destiny explains that the context around words matters more, and that the problem is that Trump had been fraudulently attacking the electoral system the entire time he'd been running since 2016 right to rebut that Alex says it was the dams who were attacking the electoral system who were they were the deep state who's underlined Trump by calling him a Russian agent sure definitely brings up multiple points in response to this that Alex just ignores that the supposed deep state is all people Trump

appointed or that Trump was never charged or convicted with being a Russian agent he asked Alex they tried. They tried. He asked if Trump was ever charged and Alex says they tried to charge him. Now you're not going to do it. That brings up the next obvious point, which is if the system is so corrupt and the courts are hijacked entirely, then why would they ever fail to charge him? Right. All the while Alex is trying to yell about what he wants to talk about, which is, hey, there he's been saying, oh shit, it's a complete non-issue.

In order to get back to that subject he wants to talk about, he has to constantly squat down the things Destiny is bringing up to try to keep the line of inquiry moving. Like, doesn't he's trying to stay on track somewhat? So why would they fail to charge him if the system is so corrupt? Alex's answer is that they didn't charge Trump within suraction. That seems like a response, but it isn't. No, that's not even close to a response. Destiny tries to repose the question because it was an answer. Now, it just keeps telling why is Hillary saying Trump's supposed to steal the election.

Yeah, and then they got into a nice little call in response. He is not as fun. He is risen. Yeah. He is risen indeed. There you go. It's very clear if you're paying attention that this is Alex, it's veering off into non-sequitors and bullying. But when the moderator steps in to say that they need to not talk over each other,

Alex plays the victim and says the destiny keeps talking over him and he's just going to dominate him. Yeah. This is very revealing because it shows what Alex thinks dominating is. For him, conversation is a form of violence If destiny is making a point he doesn't like he isn't going to let him finish and then address it

He's gonna beat the shit out of him by yelling and make sure no one ever gets a point across and nothing gets fully articulated And hope that at some point that yelling will end up leading to Facilitating the change of topic. Yeah for a moderator to not understand that this is the game Alex is playing and for them to actively facilitate his playing it, it shows that this is not and was never meant to be a sincere debate. This is clickbait bullshit, featuring a coaked out idiot bullying everyone

and then pretending that no one is letting him talk. Essentially, Alex is dominating in his definition of the word because he's stacked the deck. He's good friends with the people who run zero hedge who's funding this debate. It's being held in his definition of the word because he's stacked the deck. He's good friends with the people who run zero hedge who's funding this debate. It's being held in his studio. Two of his opponents are the Christenstein brothers. The moderator is Tim Poole's stupidest co-host. If these pieces weren't there, Alex's bullying would be disrupted.

If the moderator was competent, unbiased as a person, there would be there to keep things on track. Alex, in that circumstance, would have been silenced and maybe kicked off the panel by this point. Yeah, absolutely. Because again, you can't do the thing that we're doing. His behavior is out of line unless all you want is sensational fireworks. If this was being funded by anyone other than zero heads, he probably would have been kicked off for clearly being high at some point. Well, there's that. If this wasn't being held in his studio, the people running everything wouldn't be people on his payroll and maybe would

mute his mic. Take it just mute his mic. Alex would never do a debate like this without those conditions being met because he doesn't like to debate. He likes to look like he's dominating. And he can't do that if anyone with the authority is there to relime in. Unless he can stack the deck, he can't dominate.

He can only dominate in these circumstances, and that's why he'll only really exist within those circumstances. Yeah, wow, I mean, there's, when you're a person who exists as your own boss, then you really can't go back. And the idea of like, restraints inside of this kind of scenario is just, you can't

do it. You can't do it. I mean, there's a part of it where you're getting one of those questions from the Crasensteens or whatever. And you have to just go, I'm wrong. And then what do you do then? You'd hope. You'd hope that that would be a like response again. You know what? Well, I mean, actually, to be fair, they're

trying to Alex is trying to do that with Trump with all the lies being like, well, he was wrong. Sure. You know, oh, he said that the Dominion voting machines, he was lying about that and answering, he was wrong. So instead of like actually owning up and discussing the reality of that, he's using the idea of being wrong as an enabling excuse. Sure. I mean, specifically in the context of the debate, you eventually have to concede on,

if you're going to have an honest debate, which we can't do. No. But if you're going to have these positions in competition with each other, you know, devoid of the people involved, eventually on one side you have to go, this is a factual inaccuracy. And then if you have to admit that one factual inaccuracy exists,

that spirals out of control until we go, oh, the debate is over. Right. Well, and I think that that highlights one of the problems, which is like the entire premise of the debate is ridiculous. Yeah. It's a factual inaccuracy.

Well, at very least, the people who have the burden of proof, which is saying that it was a manufactured event, every six, have absolutely no evidence of that. Not even a little bit, and have not even considered trying to bring any. And the people who are saying that it wasn't are well prepared To deal with any of the like things that might come up in the course of the Feeling an opinion based arguments that'll happen and so it's it's it's debating a factual issue Yeah, but not in terms, but not in terms of that That's why it goes off into all these fucking side shits and no one defines any terms

No to use as a guide for like this is what we mean by this There's no there's no structure to the conversation because why would there be if you do this is over in 10 minutes Yeah, absolutely we don't need to be here. Nope They're fundamental position when they walked into the room. Yeah. Was we are lying. It's ironic because we are so deep into our conversation about this, but this is a waste of time. Yeah. So are we. We are five hours into this. Yeah. Wasting everybody's time. So the conversation comes to the point of asking, wait a second. So why didn't they steal the 2016 election? Good question. And Alex has his talking point for that.

Let's hear it. Hillary Clinton tried to force Joe Biden in 2016 to certify the electoral votes. The landslide was so big. Yep. The lands, the bias pretty. What did the lands, lands, lands, what do you mean the lands are so big? Hillary won the popular vote. And one, one, one by more. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that.

I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to be able to do that.

I'm not going to be able to do that. I'm not going to's still from the big. We're not all privy to the election that exists in your head. There's no other voices. Don't give it the same president voting. Don't get out of here. We gotta go by what people are now. There's no such thing. Here we go. People know. Here we go. The states where the illegals are getting more. California just got six more congressional standards. We need you to come up and rise up.

Well, I'm tied down. There's no invasion. You guys know more than I just think that there was federal involvement here. And there was that what the extent of it was. OK. So you're getting to I guess an illuminating question, which is great.

You know, I mean, OK, I'm glad we're off the, I'm glad we're on to a new subject. Sure. Did the feds do it? Right. No. Whatever it is to you have. So, Alex isn't used to saying these kinds of things about the election being stolen in front of people

who aren't involved in the same scam as him. So he's on a custom to the response that you just saw there. Yeah. He can't back up this stuff about 2016, but board of the point is explanation doesn't even make sense. Even if there was a big landslide victory for Trump that year, why couldn't Hillary

try the same plot Trump tried to send fake slates of the lecturers? Because then it would look like the landslide wasn't as big. This explanation, it's one that only works when you're just trying to patch up plot holes to make sure the people who've bought into your shit don't get stuck on something that doesn't make sense. It's a band-aid type of explanation that's not meant to be examined because when you examine it or you try to sell it to someone who doesn't already agree with your underlying narrative,

it sounds really stupid. And all Alex can do to deal with this is to pivot about yelling about undocumented immigrants voting. He spiraling so hard he comes up with this. People know you're wrong. The states where the illegals are getting more. California just got six more congressional. Senator, Senator, the area you need to. So that's not true at all. After the 2020 census for the first time in the 171 years that it's been a state, California lost a congressional district. It's projected that if current trends continue, including undocumented immigrant populations,

California is expected to lose four districts in the 2030 census. Alex is just literally lying, making up that undocumented immigrants coming in has gained California's six new congressional seats when in the reality is the direct opposite. Alex is a liar, and unless there's a competent moderator in this debate, then he'll be allowed to lie like this to create the appearance that he's dominating the

debate when in truth, he's a yacht out racist lying to support his white nationalist aspirations. I think I might know what Alex is talking about here. So in the 2018 midterm elections, Democrats in California flipped six house seats. I was able to find a headline from the California report that says, quote, Gil Cessneros, when gives Democrats six new House seats in California. Alex has been spinning this conspiracy in the debate that undocumented immigrants are being brought into raise populations to give blue states more House seats, which is what he's saying in that clip. Right. The most likely thing that happened here is that Alex skimmed that headline or one like it, and his brain immediately filtered the words through his racist conspiracy theory filter and that's what became reality to him.

So when they flip six seats and it's the headline says Democrats six new out seats. Yeah. He imagines it's like, oh my God. They just added six more. Yeah. Yeah. It's nonsense. Now, I do.

There's no competent moderation that would push back on this and be like, how, what are you talking about? I do appreciate That there is an etymology that you look for for his bullshit, too Not just not just where is this bullshit, but like where does his mind spring forth the bullshit from? Well, it is it's so wrong. It's so wrong, but you're right. You're so right six new house seats Only reading headlines Alex saw that, went, boom, done. It's so wrong and it's a specific. And so when you try to find that specific,

it's like, where do, like does this number, the house seats, like where do those things exist? And the most likely scenario is that. So funny. It's, well, I mean, I get bored, so I gotta, I gotta dig a little. I just said, but it funny. It's well, I mean I get bored So I got a little I just said but it is it's just it is so funny to look back and just be like ah see This headline said six new seats and so spiraled into madness There we go and now six years later Alex is repeating a fucking racist talking point on this debate because of it.

Yep. Here we are. It's like someone stepped on a butterfly. Yeah. So much that. Yeah. So Chris, oh, I'm sorry, bed. People really enjoyed that. Who doesn't shout out to everybody who enjoys bed. Bed. So I think some people were saying it should be bread, but I've already committed to that. Yeah, you can't do bread. So bed I will say probably well I think in a good this is a good thing to do in this debate is to you know just go ahead and admit and deal with the fact that there were Informants but were there on January 6th. Yeah, you really can't argue But we're there on January 6th. Yeah, yeah, you really can't argue against the situation.

Yeah. And so then Alex just starts dancing around about how Twitter is going to get you. Go. OK. I just think that there was federal involvement here. And there was that what the extent of it was on January 6th. I think that there are probably federal agents under cover. Do I think that federal agents committed crimes and and led people into the capital,

but only absolutely not. And there hasn't been any case brought by any of these 700 convicts. They none of them brought that up in court. And there's a process here in the district of Columbia. Because there's no evidence. I know absolutely no. They will let them put defenses on. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. My ups was a hero and did nothing wrong. Now they finally indicted him because they know it's a weak spot. And their operator only asked him for six months. Let me tell you, we're not playing clips for TIT for TAT here,

but everybody's gonna, I want everybody on X to get these statements and put all the clips of women putting onions in their eyes and the cops fake arresting people and high fines. I said, I'm a federal agent. I just help run the attack. They're going to string all these videos out. So here's the thing. Like Brian said, there's probably some informants on the ground.

I think one of the proud boys, one of the ladies in the proud boy was an informant. So she was on the ground. She didn't go into the Capitol building. I don't believe. The problem is with what Alex does is he pushes these conspiracy theories. These ideas that illegal aliens were voting, there's no evidence of that. I think that the illegal alien voting thing is what's happening is they're coming in and

then they're being counted in the census which then adds more electoral votes to the thing that gives Morgan and I shall be stressed. That's fair, that might be happening, I haven't reached that. They're in diamonds all country They're in diamonds of illegal is everywhere voting got them again Two like two people cities have passed laws where legal aliens can vote no they haven't no Not in the federal election, but oh

Oh, the Eagles are voting elections though not in the federal ones So I know that some cities try to have them voting in like local matters. I don't know how many of those are successful. The legal aliens shouldn't be voting, okay? But they're not. They're not voting in federal elections. I don't know why you would think they're not. Do we have to do it here?

I don't know why you would care about their. There are going to be a hundred million views of you guys. X is going to eat you guys alive. Yeah, I can't wait for it. Oh, man. Throughout this debate, Alex will not stop ruminating on future Twitter dunks on the chrasen steens and destiny.

But you notice that he can't do any of that dunking himself. No, he has the vibe of someone who's picking a fight and then stopping right before the punching starts insisting that the other person's gonna be real sorry when their big, mussely imaginary friend shows up later. It's pathetic and a very strong indication that Alex can't handle arguing any of the points he's yelling very passionately about,

and shouldn't be in this debate. He has nothing to offer, except the bombast and spectacle. Yeah. Destiny is right there about the unonsidious and immigrant voting in local elections, but I do wish he had some more of the details about that at the ready, because you could push back on this a little bit more strongly and demonstrate how wrong Alex's Yeah, it would be good to see Alex try to defend not letting permanent residents be allowed to vote for the school board in the district where their child goes to school I'm sure he would just say Twitter is gonna get you and move on because that seems to be where he's at at the moment Mm-hmm An important point that no one's picking up on in that clip is when Alex says that he knows the lawyers who aren't being allowed to put on

Defenses that would prove that there's all these federal agents provocateur. He's talking about his own lawyer norm paddys Yeah, who's also a racist stand-up comedian and represents some of the proud boys including Joe Biggs Yeah, this is yet another conflict of interests that really should preclude Alex from participating in this debate He's deeply and intimately involved with the side that planned and carried out the insurrection. So he has a very strong incentive to lie about things to make that side look better. That conflict of interest alone should make someone with the supposed credibility of Glenn Greenwald

decline this invitation, but oh well, Alex says this is gonna get 100 million views on Twitter so you can't turn down that kind of attention. Nope. Incidentally, this entire debate is posted on YouTube on Destiny's channel Which had about 850,000 views at the time of when I was preparing this episode. Gotcha. Zero-Hedge posted it on their YouTube channel and it currently sits at 4,000 views.

Ooh, their rumble channel is a little more popular and that just got about 45,000 views there. Alex broadcast of this on Twitter has a total of about one million views. Sure. Live and after the fact, I think we're well below the 100 million estimate Alex is throwing around. I hope it was worth it for folks. I don't think I paid. And I have a strong sense that they got paid, which we'll get to at the end of this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I doubt or I don't blame destiny for not having a follow a lot knowing enough about like a bit outside the scope of what you would be preparing if you're preparing for a debate about whether or not January 6th happen You shouldn't be like I got to make sure that I know my do illegal aliens vote shit. No, that's that's nuts. Yeah, it's understandable Yeah, he has enough of an awareness based on probably other conversations he's had around topics, including immigration and stuff.

But yeah, it would, it would be nice, but I understand why he doesn't have that information. So ready. Yeah, no problems. It's a, it's a missed opportunity, but like not a, not a slight. Yeah. So Alex claims that he never thought that Mike Pence could determine the election, which is crazy. Wow.

I don't know why you care about illegal voting when you think Trump can just flip the whole election anyway. Who cares? You can just ask Pence to throw it all out. I'm gonna set off on Trump to flip the election. Oh, do you think he was OK when he asked Pence to do it? I already told you five times. I think that was a bad theory.

I didn't say it was a bad theory. I'm gonna let you out. You think it was an attempted coup. You think you can ask the vice president to use it to laterally determine the outcome of the election? Oh, I'm gonna president to literally determine the election. No, Trump was exploring every option. The main thing I wanted was a 10 day investigation. No, Trump wanted Pence to throw out the election to declare him the winner. Imagine if Trump would say like, I don't believe Joe Biden can be on the ballot. Imagine if federal judges. And I would go to court and the court can decide.

What would the public be doing right now. Biden hasn't said that. Biden hasn't said that. State's have tried for you saying Obama should go on the ballot. I would say if Republicans are trying to take Joe Biden on the ballot right now, what would you say they are? That the Supreme Court decide.

Even even this even this conservative Supreme Court I'd say that they decide. Greenwald. Yeah, we should, but Daring you I flounder. Let's bring a greenwald. Yeah. So it's going on in that clip. Is them say let them decide. You want a grain wall? Yeah, yeah, yeah, we should. But daring. Flounder, no, it's bringing a grain wall. Yeah. So what's going on in that clip is them talking past each other.

Destiny is correctly saying that Trump and his team had a plan for Pence to reject the legally selected electors, which isn't effect over throwing the election unilaterally. However, Alex thinks his position is actually different. So he's pretending to disagree with that plan. In Alex's mind, what Pence was supposed to do is reject these electors and the states would send back Trump electors, which is what he thinks they were supposed to do to begin with, and then Trump would win the election. Right.

There's no possible future in Alex's mind where the electors get sent back to the states and the same electors end up getting sent back for certification. Yeah. If that happened, then there would need to be another very legal and very cool 10-day investigation to make sure we get things right. Yeah. They're saying the same thing, but 10 day investigation to make sure we get things right yeah They're saying the same thing, but Alex is trying to make his position sound less authoritarian and bad Because he's added fake nuance to his side. They can't really get to the rub Which is that Alex does believe the pencil is supposed to reject the results of the election

And that is why they were at the capital encouraging that to happen right? It's ridiculous right Alex is not Disagreed with that legal theory I find I find something interesting I find it interesting why the Alex and and them don't just go well the courts are a joke right well this did Is you does come up later so maybe you should revisit those thoughts at that point because that's that seems to me to be the obvious rebuttal to like, oh, let the courts decide, the courts are a joke.

In our position, if our position is the election blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, then the courts are in on it, so who fucking cares? You know? Well, I mean, I think that that is an unexamined and unspoken assumption within Alex's argument. Right. And that is something that destiny tries to get to the core of a bit later in the debate. And basically get Alex to recognize that what he is calling for is the overthrow of

the country. Yes. And it doesn't go as well as you'd hope. But this does get explored a little bit. So you may be satisfied by that when that comes up. All right. For now, you got to jump legs first head first. I don't know what we want to do. Maybe an elbow drop into the pool. All right. But what we're jumping

into is Ray apps. Shit. Jesus. Because Darren. I swear to God, I almost forgot again that we were talking about J2Way 6th. Well, we're not really going to be. We're going to be talking about Ray apps. We're quite a lot. What are you here and what's on your brain right now? Isn't that trying to remove looking at you thinking? Well, I can attempt to answer the question about federal involvement as my reporting or reporting at revolver news is largely responsible for changing the national conversation in that direction.

And notice they first threaten to sue you. I'm leaving a minute. Take a piss. They first threatened to sue you. Now they leaving a minute. Take a piss. They first threaten to sue you. Now they need to drink it up. You've been drinking. Yeah, in fact, I have a video. This is about Ray Epps.

You just mentioned Alex. It's clip number three and it's about 25 seconds long. We're going to play this and then Darren, I want to hear what you're about to say. OK. Tomorrow we need to go into the Capitol. Into the Capitol. What? No. No!

No! Peaceful, man. That, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that, that. Tomorrow, I don't even like to say it because I'll be arrested. Well, let's not say it. We need to go. We need to go. I'll say it.

All right. We need to go in. Shut the fuck up, boomer. To the capital. Oh, well, wait. Ray E. Shut the fuck up, boomer. To the Capitol. Oh, well, wait. Ray Epsden doing it because he said peacefully at the end, right? We can move past him. It did. Well, no, he said go into the Capitol. He said peacefully. Well, so what? It's still illegal to go into the Capitol. But the people in the upper of the world, yeah, I thought peacefully made it all okay. No, it going in is illegal. Trump didn't say storm the Capitol.

He didn't say go in right. He got he's going to get six months in prison. So no, I mean, you guys want to hear the argument for federal involvement or not. Yeah, for not really. Okay. I want to hear. Yeah, I agree. Not really.

There's a lot of dimensions to it. We can start with already out. Here's the guy you saw that that was only part of the clip. There's much longer clips about that we can't. Here's a guy who's the only guy caught on cameras early as January 5th, repeating repeatedly, calling for people to go into the Capitol. So Darren, Darren calls to mind someone who's speaking like waving a pen in the air. Yeah. That's a weird toad to it, but I feel that it requires a flourish or else this town just doesn't really work. Yeah. Yeah. That's a weird tone to it, but I feel that it requires a flourish

or else this tone just doesn't really work. Yeah. I don't like him. And he should be very fucking careful with his words about how he's reporting how that was responsible for the coverage of Ray Epps. Epps may be getting probation for a few months now, but he's still suing Fox News for Tucker's coverage of him that led to his family being terrorized. Darren Beatty was a frequent guest with Tucker talking about Ray Epps conspiracies. And if he's here taking responsibility for this stuff, he might just talk himself into getting sued to Darren says something interesting here that Epps was the first person caught on video saying the people should go into the capital. That's not true.

I'm not sure who the actual first person was but wait for it's uh... said any of that shit out of one of aliex's fourth hour hosts mat bracken literally said that they should do that on jayneuary six here he is on aliex's show on december thirty first actually remember here's a little clip of that next week we have a chance to change the course of history

it's not going to be done by a senator, Holly by himself. We can't wait for some white hat, QAnon secret insiders going to fix it for us that's not going to happen. All of that has been BS. That's been met to keep the sheep going in line to this slaughterhouse nice and calm, believing in some Deus ex machina that was going to pull a rabbit out of the hat and save us. It's not that we're not going to be saved by anybody above us. We're going to only be saved by millions of americans moving to washington occupying the entire area if if necessary storming right into the capital

no there we we know the rules of engagement if you have enough people you can push down any kind of a fence or a wall that's i mean like this was enough of a public conversation in these circles that it was being openly discussed by one of Alex's cohosts. Yeah. So I don't, I don't know. I don't think that it's so crazy. It's not the first person to be caught on tape saying this. He's the scapegoat that they chose. Yeah. I mean, I, I, what's, what I find so fascinating about that clip is that I agree with everything that he said. He's the scapegoat that they chose. Yeah, I mean, I, what's, what I find so fascinating about that clip is that I agree with everything that he said.

He's absolutely correct. That's the first time I've ever said, because he's right, you know, I don't, I mean, as far as the safest thing is nonsense, but if you want, if they want what they want, they want to take over the fucking country. Well, right. So if you want to do that, that's how you got to do it.

Right, that, that, that, you know, what you're to do that, that's how you got to do it. Right. But they don't want it. You know what you're saying is that he's honest and consistent in his position is. Yeah. And that's because that was before January 6th. Right. You're not saying he's right and that is what we should do. No, no, no.

Yeah. That's what he wants to take over. Yeah. Right. If you want to, if you want to just want to declare it. Yeah. Yeah. In terms of like, let's get rid of America in this conversation. He's descriptively right of like, that's how you throw people above you aren't going

to help you create your, uh, bizarre, patriot fantasy necessarily. Yeah. You're going to have to be the change you seek to have in the world. We're not going to vote, uh, an authoritarian takeover. No. We have to take over authoritarianly. We're not going to vote an authoritarian takeover. No, we have to take over authoritarianly. We will, I mean, the country will sort of, you know, get the ball rolling. Sure, sure. Well, I mean, it's already on the way. Yeah.

And, you know, that was, that was 2016. Mm-hmm. So it's very clear if you read Ray Epps testimony to the 6th committee, that he was talking about just going into the Capitol and having like a sit-in type protest there. Sure, sure, sure, yeah. He incorrectly believed that the Capitol was open to the public, which actually one of the representatives

who's interviewing him points out that it would have been if it weren't for COVID, most likely. So he thought that staging a protest in the capital was an option because he thought it was open. Right. He didn't say they should storm the Capitol, but my Breckin certainly did on Alex's show. So that's actually even more close to. Yeah, but I mean, if you're being honest about doing the thing, then you should do the

sit-in, even though it's illegal. The illegality is part of the protest. I agree. I agree. I agree. It's a non-violent civil protest, you know? I agree with you, but committing the violence needed to get there in the circumstances that actually existed in January 6th

make it more difficult. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. What you wouldn't want to do is create like a line around the barricade and make them forcibly remove you or something like that. Instead of You know violently pushing through assaulting officers and then do the piece will sit in inside the cap. Right, but you know The his point is you know, yeah, let's if we're going to make a protest

Protests aren't legal the government doesn't like people protesting the government well, you know a protest often aren't legal. The government doesn't like people protesting the government. Well, you know, a protest often aren't legal. That's why they often involve some sort of civil disobedience. Right. Exactly. And that is a big part of it. So Darren lays out some pretty thin evidence here that he has for Ray Epps being a fed, which also they go back and forth on a whole lot. Like the definition of like, what is he as he a fed, which also they go back and forth on a whole lot. Like the definition of like, what is he as a fed? Is he working for a unnamed third entity or something like that? It's very bizarre.

Yeah. Here's the guy you saw that that was only part of the clip. There's much longer clips about Ray Epps, but here's a guy who's the only guy caught on cameras early as January 5th, repeating repeatedly, calling for people to go into the Capitol, and prefacing his seemingly rehearsed remarks in each case, saying, I'm probably going to go to jail for this. I'm probably going to get arrested for this. Need to go into the Capitol.

The next day, he flew across the whole country, presumably, to go here to Trump's speech. He skipped Trump's speech. He skipped from speech. Instead, he was a veritable, wears Waldo everywhere in January 6, directing people go into the Capitol. It's an action. There's only one Waldo, and he's... That's where our pro-wrestling is. Notoriously difficult to find. Then amazingly, he's prepositioned right

at that initial decisive reach point on the West perimeter of the Capitol. And he's whispering into somebody's ear just seconds before the bike racks are broken through. He texts his nephew, I orchestrated it. On paper, think about it. He's like a six three former Marine who was wearing camo gear and a trump hat and he just happens to have had a leadership position in the oath keepers.

The most demonized and heavily prosecuted. He used to, right? He didn't anymore. The most demonized and heavily prosecuted militia group associated with January 6th. And the regime doesn't touch him. So this is about, I mean, you know, if you want more than this, anything deeper than this, I don't think you're going to get it. Yeah.

Like Darren's supposed to be the guy who wrote the book on Ray Epps and he got this whole demonization campaign going by writing about him and then going on talker to talk shit about him. And yet this is pretty thin. This is not, this is all just kind of vibes and feelings. Okay. So if I understand correctly, our evidence as it stands, he is six with three. That is, that will be repeated a couple times.

He is wearing camo. Uh-huh that will be repeated a couple times. He is wearing Camo. He's got a Trump hat on. And there's a former Marine with a former position in a militia. And there's a amount of context, videos of him and text that he sent to his nephew. Right, right, right. Now, I would also say all of these things

would be straightforward evidence for not being anything other than what he is. Especially that text message. But we'll get it to when we get to it. Okay. So first off, at the end there, Darren says that the government won't touch EPS, but he just got sentenced to six months probation. That isn't a problem for the conspiracy theorist, though, because they'll just say that the government only did that because they made such a big deal out of how they weren't punishing EPS, so the government finally gave them some punishment to trying cover up him being a fed. Yeah. It's circular. Once the narrative is set any affirmative or negative decision that gets made is interpreted as proof of that narrative It's gospel that Ray Epps is a fed provocateur and part of the proof of that is that he wasn't prosecuted the fact that he has been

Prosecuted in no way shakes the narrative. It's just it's twisted into supporting it by fantasy writing stuff about it Like how the conspiracy pressure forced the government to charge apps so people wouldn't think he's a fat. If they charge him, it's a cover up. If they don't charge him, it's proof that the, he's a fat and that he ran J6. No matter what, the narrative gets upheld because the narrative drives profit. Yeah. The other points, Darren, makes here a dumb too. And if he cared at all, he could find explanations for them. For instance, Epps explained why he said that he might get arrested if they went to the capital the next day and that famous video of him for the night of the fifth.

He testified that in the larger video that Darren is referring to there clearly shows that Epps was out on the street around a bunch of adjuditators like baked Alaska. Epps tried to deescalate the situation as he told the J6 committee. Deescalate the de-delas the J6 command. De-escalate the-de-delascalate the- It's not bad. So he told the J6 commande quote, they were trying, there's only a few that were, by a few I mean five or six, they were trying to incite violence with the police, trying to get other people involved in it.

And I kind of recognized what he was doing, this baked Alaska, he would try and incite something and then stand off and film it and call it news. I tried to get people not to engage in that. to make Alaska, he would try and incite something and then stand off and film it and call it news. I tried to get people not to engage in that. First off, he very accurately assessed Baked Alaska's business model. As for the possibility of getting arrested thing, he explained that by saying, quote, I don't know, it was the heat of the moment thing. I was trying to find some common ground with these people and change their minds.

It shouldn't have been said, but I said it. It's pretty clear from his testimony that you can see what the thought process here is. He encountered lifelong shithead and scam guy, Baked Alaska, and others trying to whip people into a frenzy to get into a conversation with police or some kind of violence that night. Baked Alaska obviously has a financial incentive to try to do that because that's prime content for him and he has no concern for the well-being of others. Epps tries to calm things down and said that they should go into the capital the next day because he thinks the capital is open to the public.

He's saying maybe I'll get arrested as a way to make his proposal sound as exciting or threatening to the establishment as those agitators' plans of trying to incite street violence. It was in a sense saying you may get arrested doing that tonight and I might get arrested doing this tomorrow but at least might plan involved some productive action. It's must misguided and he was wrong about the Capitol being open, but it's not too difficult to understand the thought process that a six foot three older guy might come up with. He's well positioned.

In fact, probably the only person positioned to actually have an influence on these people not make the last five being six foot three and where Camo and being a former Marine. Right. Right. It's understandable how that is like something that he could say. Yeah. That isn't like I'm going to go fucking break everything.

Right. No, it makes sense. Yeah. So next Darren says that Epps flew across the country to see Trump speech, but then he skipped it. And that's that's not entirely true. Darren and his son made the trip mostly to be at the rally, but also because they wanted to visit Appomattox manor, a plot of land that apparently includes some family history, including a place

called Epps Island. It was partially a trip that would pass on the family history to the next generation. Epps told the committee, quote, we're proud of our heritage. My family hasn't always been on the right side of history. Some of them were, some of them weren't, we have to live, we have a lot to live up to, I mean, and that's what we've tried to teach our heritage. My family hasn't always been on the right side of history. Some of them were, some of them weren't. We have to live, we have a lot to live up to, I mean. And that's what we've tried to teach our children. And it's a trip we plan to take in the future for our grandchildren, that we all go and show off this great heritage that we have. All right. We need to release the Epsilon logs. Right. I want to know who is there. The, all the people who came to America through Epsilon. So that was one part of the trip.

But the rally on the six was definitely the biggest part of it. Eps got to the site about six or seven that morning and stayed to see all the speakers up to Trump. He saw a little bit of Trump's speech and then quote, there was a group that started running towards the Capitol. They were moving quite fast. So I just thought, you know what, I want to be in the front.

I'll get up there. Part of the reason he showed up so early is that he liked to be at the front, so this is somewhat in character. He explained that he likes to get in front, so he's able to see where all the vehicles are at to be able to look out for possible explosives. It's a paranoid thought, but one that he probably shared with a lot of the J6 attendees. Yeah. If Epsis actions in leaving before Trump's speech had finished, even though he had flown across the country to be there, that somehow indicates that he's a fed Then thousands of people are feds Alex and Owen Shroyer are feds. It's a meaningless piece of evidence And I think that it's easy to understand why you would skip Trump speech

He's just gonna ramble and talk about how great he is a bunch. Yeah, I was there early at the stage for the Daft Punk live No, I just really wanted to see the concert. Is the pyramid of light one? Yeah. Not a fed. Just to throw that out there. I was famously up front in center for the Wutang clan concert in Columbia, Missouri.

It was great. I bet it was. I bet it really was. Famously got to slap Ghostface's medallion. It felt pretty cool. Yeah, that is pretty cool. So Darren says that he's a wears Waldo at the Capitol. There's a comical portrayal, as if Epps was everywhere.

If the level of moving around he did was somehow suspicious, then everyone at the Capitol, including, and especially Alex himself, is super suspicious. Darren says he tells people to go into the Capitol, which he didn't do on the sixth. He tells people, he gave people some directions to the Capitol, but then that part is true. Yeah. There's a video of him from before the capital, which he didn't do on the sixth. He tells people, he gave people some directions to the capital, but then that part is true. There's a video of him from before the rally,

giving some people directions, because quote, it was pretty common knowledge that everyone was going to go to the capital. I was just trying to help out. Yeah, you're gonna take a left on blood. Yeah, every one knew that. It was common knowledge that that was the end point. That's where the hell were.

So Darren says that Epps is quote, prepositioned at the initial breach point, which is kind of sneaky language. What's the difference between being prepositioned and that just happening to be where you are? He ended up with that barricade because that's where the group he broke off from the rally with lead to.

Until he got to that barricade, he thought they were gonna be allowed into the capital because it would be open to the public. That mentality shifted and he realized that that wasn't going to be the case. There's a video of him at the barricade saying, quote, when we go in, leave this here, likely referring to some kind of a weapon, a fellow rally goer was caring, but we don't actually know for sure. Epps testified that he doesn't remember saying that because his mentality shifted when

he got to the barricade and realized they weren't going to just be let into the building, which is a little curious, but I can see there being a benign explanation for all that that doesn't involve him being a fed. Sure. It's a leap to jump from that kind of like, that's weird to, oh, that, I mean, definitely he's a Brock tour fed. Yeah, I'm, yeah, I'm going to need a badge. Or just anything. Anything, anything would help. Anything concrete, anything substantial. Maybe like a employee of the month stick. I'll be good. Yeah. Darren's next point is that Epis way spurs in someone's year just seconds before the bike racks are broken through.

That is true. And both Epis and the person who he whispered to have gone on record and explained that. I will do. That is it. Yep. So this other person Ryan Samsell had already been shaking the bike racks That is it. Yep. So this other person Ryan Samsell had already been shaking the bike racks Before that they made up the barricade the video that's used to attack apps exclude some context, but it explains why Eps you know whisper to him that he shouldn't attack the cops right. It's not what this is about That's what he whispered to him to calm down. Sure both him and Samsell said that's what was communicated and if being around Ryan Samsell is such a suspicious thing, there are pictures from January 6th where he's hanging out with his arm around Joe Biggs.

In fact, Samsell told the FBI that Biggs had pushed him to fight the police at the barricade, and there's a video of them interacting just before he started shaking the bike rack. Sure. If Samsell's telling the truth, then a possible interpretation would be that Alex's former employee Joe Biggs told Samsell

to go fight with the police and break down that barrier Which he started trying to do which point Ray Epps stopped in and tried to calm him down I'm not sure what happened exactly, but I have more familiarity with Joe Biggs' character Which makes me think that it's more likely Ray Epps isn't a fed provocateur. I'm not sure. I mean, there's no there's no here here Yeah, I'm confused You know, there's a part of me that thinks they, they were trying to protect some people by making EPS the scapegoat.

You mean the right wing media figures? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it was largely because the Dominion type narratives and that kind of election stealing stuff was sizzling. Sure. And so I think it was an exciting way. And I think there's probably also a piece of it that you're correct about, which is trying to deflect blame.

From, yeah, but I mean, I don't think it's just specific people. I think it's as a whole for the event itself. I mean, because they don't want to take responsibility for wanting the thing that you're to correctly assessing that they want. Sure, but if you want to do that then you you throw one of the big ones to the wolves You know you throw Joe Biggs as a fed Joe Biggs is now a fed

You know that kind of thing and because he's in jail for a long time But there's some help that some of that that already happens with like Enrique Tario because you passed as an informant Sure, but I mean, but you've already got the eps by the time we figure out Enrico is Not necessarily an informant not necessarily there was already an awareness that he was informed before that oh sure Sure, I just mean I just mean if you're going to pin it Don't do it on the guy who's a you know kind of anonymous Throw a throw one of the big guys to the walls and then you're not going to get sued, you're not going to have all this shit. You're not going to do the whole thing. Here's where I disagree with you. I think it's more believable. Definitely could be more believable. But making it a random

person allows you to fully craft your own narrative and characterize it however you want. Sure. Someone like Joe Biggs, you're trying to brand him as a Fed provocateur or something like that. Right. There's a lot of stuff you gotta write around. There's a lot of awareness of him as a character and a personality inside these right wing spaces already.

Sure. And so you kind of are a little bit boxed in to a corner. Yeah, but see, that's part of why I feel like the, I mean, I don't know why we're talking about this. In my head, I'm like, okay, here's how I would get to do what I wanted, which is unfairly malign a human being. I also not get sued by Fox News.

And it's like, what am I doing? I don't need to give people advice about this. Yeah, I think everybody thinks that they're immune from being sued. That's kind of what it is. I was like, okay, well, if you're in this scenario, then you have to kind of play ball within the rules of your situation. And it's like, they don't think like that. They just don't think like that.

They just move. Well, I think the narrative and the need for narrative is stronger than the worry about being sued, probably in a lot of cases. And I think that, you know, generally speaking, the audience for this, you know, right wing media shit is like very much not wanting to accept that they were engaged in something that was attempting to overthrow an election. And so it's so enticing to have somebody to,

but it was him. He did it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it allows you to emotionally disconnect from your intentions. Yeah, we should definitely no longer consider a separate from Apes. That would be a terrible idea.

We have overlap. Yeah. So Eps did text his nephew and he did say that he had quote, orchestrated it. It's important to remember though that that was at 2.12 p.m. that day. The riot was far from over and honestly, most of the shit hadn't even happened

at that point. Yeah. Actually, Babid isn't shot until 244. So this is just before the Senate of germs. Sure. Eps was there. So he didn't know what was going on. And even then, a lot of the worst stuff hadn't even happened yet. Saying that this text is him saying he orchestrated it means that if you're saying that it means that he did all of this, it's nuts because at that point He had no idea what it was going to turn into. Yeah the time stamp of that text is something that folks like Darren often ignore Abs explained this text to the committee quote, I just meant that I got you have to understand our relationship uncle nephew We hunt together we fun at each other we do that kind of stuff when I what I meant by orchestrate I helped people get there

At that point I didn't know that they were breaking into the capital I didn't know that windows had been broken I didn't know that anyone is at the capital if I answered him at 212 I was on my way back to the hotel room He hadn't seen the news yet at this point He didn't have a full picture of what was going on So he probably didn't think things got out as out of hand as it did And he's comfortable joking around with his nephew bragging about how he got people there

You know like hey, were you a part of it? I did that shit. Yeah, it is it is interesting His story because it seems like he's one of the few people who is not subsumed into the mob You know like he seems like a guy who is like watching the mob, whereas so many other people were just part of the mob. And some of that, I mean, who knows exactly, you have to try and make assumptions, I guess, about someone's mental state. Sure, sure. But I could very easily see, you know, based on the answers that he gave to the January

6th committee, you could assess that like he thinks changed for him when that barricade was there. He's like, I gotta get out of here. I don't want to be a part of this. Oh, no, I'm not part of the mob a second aspect of it is that one of the main reasons that he wanted to go Along to DC was because he was going with his son and he wanted to look after him and his son and him got separated And so when shit kicked off There's a very good chance that he was concerned about the well-being and whereabouts of his son Yeah, yeah, so that could have also been a part of the,

not getting caught up in mob mentality. Yeah, you ever been part of a mob? I almost got trampled by the mob at that Wu-Tang concert. I wrote it, actually, true. But it wasn't a mob, it was the mob that was trampling people at the Wu-Tang concert. Yeah. Yeah. It's how Yun Mafia was a, yeah.

It was a mess. Yeah. No, I, you know, it's not the, it's not exactly the mob, but definitely when I went to a Cubs playoff game, it was just the, maybe the season after they won the World Series. Yeah, yeah, after that, it was 17, yeah. So it was, Bobby Buds had season tickets. Oh, yeah And he brought me along to one of the games and and after and like towards the end of the game and after when everybody's seen go

Cubs, get like I felt like a part of the whole. Yeah, we weren't mobbing anything No, no, no, no, but I did get a feeling of like if we all now marched somewhere, I might go It is it is it is a real feeling did get a feeling of like, if we all now marched somewhere, I might go. It is, it is, it is a real feeling. And it is such a thing where it's like, you don't know how powerful it is until you're already doing something with a lot of other people.

I was singing Go Cubs Go. Exactly. And I, when have you ever sung Go Cubs Go? Right. Yeah. I'm very on record as not like that, so. No, but in the, in the moment, all of a sudden, you're halfway through go cups go.

Yeah. Before you go, wait, am I even still singing? Your individuality, it's not erased, but it becomes part of the whole. And that is a very bizarre experience. Yeah, that dangerous as we can say. It can be, or it can be wonderful. Or it can be truly wonderful. Yeah, euphoric we can say it can be or it can be wonderful or it can be truly wonderful

Yeah, you foric one of the fun things about being humans that razor's head Yeah, yeah, yeah, so Darren says that to upset a leadership position in the Oath Keepers But that was like in 2009 it was early days for the group and actually here is Epses answer for why he left the group a few years after he had joined Those dudes went crazy. Yeah. Quote, Stuart wanted to, there were some things going on in Washington and Portland. I think it was Portland. It was Portland. I think that's when Antifa had first come out and we were seeing a lot of things.

They were burning things and doing different things on the news and he thought it would be wise if we were to go there and try to direct them, get in with them and direct them to do things other ways. I didn't agree with that so we kind of split ways. He left because Stewart Rhodes wanted to try and co-opt Antifa in Portland, most likely in relation to the Occupy Portland protest in 2011, and then Epps disagreed with that. I'm not certain if that's the Portland protest he's talking about, but it would match up timeline-wise, and it matches with the tactics that folks in the extreme right wing

used with Occupy protest, where they tried to infiltrate and co-op people to their side using things like shared opposition to the big banks to Trojan horse their bigoted social politics. There's no case here with Epps, all of these points that he's bringing up. There's just nothing here except for kind of a feeling. Maybe it's my vibe that this is weird. There's these little things. Desperate to feel like he's weird

and I'm willing to cling to that and define some cod knows what. Yeah, and you're just portraying things in the least generous light possible, Darren's exaggerating that, but it's just kind of a pile of trivia. Yeah. It is fascinating listening to this specific thing,

especially after being way too into the traders right now. You know, like there is so much of... He's trying to get the apps at the round table. I mean, it's like when you listen to the round table people talk and just throw out something that is just patently either untrue or absurd. And then other people just start going like, you know what, I think you might be right.

And then it just, it is insane. It is insane to look at people do that. And, you know, there is kind of a similarity there too. And that like, you know, Darren's trying to, at the round table, put the finger towards, yeah. And other people are jumping on board because they don't want people to think that they're the trader and they get voted out

So they have an incentive to dog pile. Yeah, and that is kind of you know what's going on with apps It is it is interesting that now I feel like all of the shows I watch are just variations on the plerizners dilemma and With with physical challenges. That's it right yeah, yeah So Darren has some more evidence about Ray Epps and still not convinced. I'm going to go back to he was wearing care about. Consider to be so egregious. He was one of the first 20 people added to the FBI's most wanted list about January 6th. He was prominently featured in the New York Times is ominously titled Day of Rage of all the clips the New York Times could have found

and chosen. They chose Ray Epps to represent their thesis that this was a pre-planned insurrection to storm the Capitol. And then when the discussion of federal involvement came in to be one of our major pieces that revolver news literally the next day is when the FBI quietly removed him from their list. And all of a sudden, he went from FBI's most wanted and featured in the New York Times his day of rage to New York Times does a fully dedicated puff piece on him. Sixty minutes does a sympathy segment on him. He's the only January 6th participant that Adam Kinsinger, who's never

met a Trump supporter, doesn't want to see Rodding and Jail for 50 years, that Adam Kinsinger will defend more aggressively than Epses own lawyers. And now, almost three years after, the government finally says, okay, we're going to hit you with a wrist slap misdemeanor as though people are so simple minded to think Well, if the argument is hasn't been indicted therefore is a fed if we indict him now Even if it's a misdemeanor even three years after no matter what the circumstances this constitutes a Refutation and totally wipes away the mountains of Suspicious evidence surrounding the character of Ray Epps. The double bluff.

Yeah, I was about to say, are you telling me that they know what they did is not going to convince you? And yet your motivation that you have ascribed to them is that they're doing this to convince you specifically. Well, it's because so much of the argument in the beginning and shit about Ray Epps was that he hadn't been charged. Sure. So now that he has and he has been convicted, right, you need to deal with that. And so the way you deal with that is be like,

aha, it's a cover up. It's basically, it's a guy that I was saying. Right. But it's pretending that your conspiracies are directing law enforcement policy. And that seems a little bit much. It seems like a leap. I'm not going to follow.

Not only is the TV talking to me. Right. I'm writing the show as it goes along. And laws. Yeah. So Darren should be really careful. That lawsuit is still active. And Epps has been very clear about how the spreading of these smears about him is like

to his family being terrorized. So there's no excuse for Darren to not understand the consequences of his actions. Right, Eps is not a public figure, so there's a lot less wiggle room for defamation defenses here. There's no evidence that Eps's behavior being so egregious is what got him put on the FBI's wanted list. Sure. There's a very clearly, it could have been just that like he was one of the people they had the most questions about, and who they had clear face pictures of I like I like the quote that the FBI quietly took him off there right right right what is it okay?

One there's only one way to loudly take somebody off your most wanted list go to New Orleans get a marching band Do what have they ever not quietly take I didn't even know there would, like the list doesn't say the same, right? Every time they change the list without catching something, I didn't know about it. Well, it's somewhat interesting because what he's talking about is the capital of a Fender's wanted list. Sure.

And so, Ray Epps was the 16th person, photographed 16 on that list. Sure. And so, number one was Saddam. Right. Yeah. Just the case. As a lot of people were arrested, their pictures stayed up there and then it's had arrested under them. And so it was, right. Maybe the first person who just disappeared who didn't, okay. It didn't end up with arrested under him. And they say that he's the only

person, but that's absolutely not true. Yeah. That was the only thing that it's true. Originally, like in this, in as much as he was the first person, but he was not the last because there's, there's people who've just been removed from it. Yeah. Yeah. So the day of rage thing that Darren's talking about about the New York Times, that's a 40 minute film they put out back in 2011 or 2021. Yeah. Yeah. still right in June on my check. It's a huge stretch to say that Epps was quote prominently featured in that documentary. It includes the clip of him talking to baked Alaska from the night of the fifth and the clip of him telling people how to get to the Capitol building.

But all that's in the first seven minutes of the film. The stuff after that that doesn't include Epps is way worse. And I would say that the proud boys like Biggs and Rufio Panman are far more prominently featured. The FBI did have Epps on their most wanted list as it relates to January 6th, but they most likely removed him because as soon as someone made him aware of that, he contacted the FBI then got a lawyer who began communicating with the FBI making very clear that Epps was willing to cooperate. He was no longer most wanted, he'd been found and they were in dialogue. I don't think this is suspicious unless you're desperately looking for something

to be suspicious about. I love this conspiracy theory because to me, it's like watching the movie John Wick, right? And then having a cop be like, you know what? I bet it was that gas station attendant at the very beginning of the movie. Let's focus on that guy. He's the one who did it. I really wish I could join you in this. I've never seen any of those movies. Oh, man. I don't get the reference. The first John Wick unimpeachable.

That's what they say. Yep. So Darren's impeachable, and he's playing games with the timeline here in order to paint a dishonest picture. So I'm going to replay this part where he gives what appears to be a timeline. I got one of our major pieces that revolver news. Literally the next day is when the FBI quietly removed him

from their list and all of a sudden he went from FBI's most wanted and featured in the New York Times's Day of Rage 2. New York Times does a fully dedicated puff piece on him. 60 minutes does a sympathy segment on him. So if you're tracking his thought there, the order of events is this. The FBI has apps on the most wanted list and the New York Times includes them

in the day of Rage Documentary. Then Darren's demo website talks about him and apps has quietly removed from the wanted list in times they do a puff piece on him. Yes. This is a timeline constructed for the purpose of building a fraudulent narrative because it doesn't reflect chronological time. Now that's why you make it this timeline. Yeah, not the real chronological time. The ideas

that the man wanted to use him as a patty knowing that he was a fed and they could sort it out all secretly, but then Darren got the scoop so they had to change tracks because Darren had them all figured out they removed apps from the one list and then the times does this puff piece to paint them as a woe is me figure. But here's the real timeline. The Dave Rage documentary came out on June 30th, 2021. Apps was removed from the FBI wanted list in, I believe probably sometime between the night of June 30th and July 1st, 2021. Yeah.

So in there, most likely because his lawyer was communicating with him, Darren covered Epps for the first time in an article titled Who Is Ray Epps that came out on October 25th, 2021. And years later, while I mean, Ray Epps sued Fox News. There's been these soft puff pieces about how he was labeled a fed that made his life and his family's life. But I think there was another article before that, but it was still about how he was being branded this fat and how it was fucking his life up. Can you write a puff piece about a bunch of strangers torturing your family? I mean, you can puff a little.

I don't know if it's a puff piece. So in the real world, this is a coherent timeline of these events, and it's a puff piece. Yeah. So in the real world, this is a coherent timeline of these events. Right. And it makes sense how all this flows. Darren needs to tweak the timeline because his narrative relies on a fraudulent cause and effect relationship between these events. He needs his reporting to have been the cause of the FBI taking him off the watch list and

the wanted list because they were scared that he was on their tracks. Yeah. It's all a sure aid. And if Ray Epps is the best example of a fed provocateur that everyone keeps going back to and they're spending so much time about here, this guy is supposed to also be the guy who knows the most. He's the Ray Epps expert.

Yeah. I'm not impressed by this. No. This doesn't stand up. I feel, and I could be wrong about this. I feel like Darren Beatty doesn't get paid enough to do this. You know what I mean? I think he works cheap.

I'm like, like some, when you hear a politician gets bribed for like a hundred grand, you're like, that is cheap. That's too cheap. I feel like it should be more expensive, right? I feel like Darren Beatty is selling his soul cheap. I think he gets in where he fits in. And he doesn't, I don't think he commands a price.

I don't know, I just feel like if a lateral move salary-wise is like insurance agent, just be an insurance agent, man. No, you don't get to go on Tucker then. Yeah, that's fair. So now that Darren has spoken his piece about, you know, this, this, uh, this, uh, Ray Epstuff, Destiny jumps in and tries to explain some of this stuff. And I've noticed that they're able to talk a bit, and that's because Alex went to go pee. Ah, that makes sense.

Alex is a bit on a timeout, right? Right, right, right, having a drink. Not yelling at everybody. From the Ray Epstuff, if you look at his story from start to finish, it is incredibly obvious. The guy is a boomer. The guy was a huge Trump supporter. Now he was a- He used to be part of the Oath Capers a while before- that's what he testified to under

oath. He used to be part of the Oath Capers years earlier than he'd left. I think it was the Arizona chapter. Ray Epps- He was the head of the Arizona chapter. That's fine. Ray Epps went to the march. You said he skipped the speech.

Tons of people were listening to the speech on cell phones and other things and broadcasting other people. Ray Epps was outside the speech. There's on video. I know it because you posted in your article with him literally telling people, let's go. We're going. We're marching to the gap. Before the speech. Sure. Yeah, but he's out of the ellipse. We're telling people in advance. To the speech. We need to go to the Capitol because somehow he got it in his mind that every thing would end up that the editor. He's doing it in his as Trump has made everybody had it in their budget. No, that's when he began before the speech began. They're time to go back on the video.

Did you even go back and watch it on your the revolver stories up there? For every single thing that you assert about him that he's in video whispering into a guy's ear, you say it on the rest of your article, all he's doing on the day of when the protestings again, violent, is going up and down telling people don't fight with the cops. Don't fight with the cops. The cops are on our side. That's what he's saying the entire time. The idea that he said that the entire day, but the one guy who's ear that he whispered

into that unfortunately, we don't have audio capture of, that he and Sam's you'll testify to, as he said, hey, the cops are on our side of the cops aren't enemies. They both say something to that effect. And that seems to sitarize with everything else you said on that day. You go on to say that that guy immediately after was the one that broke down the fence. No, he's not. You can see like 15 people right next to him

that are all trying to break down the fence. Yeah, the guy goes in eventually, but if we truly believe that this guy is a federal agent or is working to instigate the riot, we've laid out absolutely nothing supporting that. Just some video footage of another boomer being at the rally. I don't know. That was there.

I want to say, if you want to say that why was he removed from the FBI list? I mean, why was he removed from the real estate? Like, all the information is out there. He said that after his video was identified and people on X started to identify him. And then because all of his online stuff is incredibly easy to find, he started to get phone calls, he started to get harass, he started to get threats. So he called the FBI as soon as this was brought to his attention. And he told the FBI, hey, this was me, here I am, I am and this is what's happening the FBI took him off the list now a claim

Through a some your timeline is wrong. He called the FBI when he saw himself in the videos Wrong. Yeah a friend told him about it and he's that he Tentoral That's what he testified He called the FBI very shortly after January 6th because of his picture being on the most wanted list. He wasn't taken off the most wanted list until the middle part of 2021. There were multiple months span between him calling the FBI in the first instance and

being quietly removed. That's not true. Yes, it is. I mean, I can tell you why it's not true. Okay, because what you did, like, read your article, is you looked at two archived versions of the website and you didn't have a 12-month archive. For some reason, you assumed that the recent snapshot that you took at 2021, you think that that was the first time the page has been changed. That was just the first time the page has been archived. But I don't think the FBI has made a statement. But what EPS testified to was that he either saw a video of himself or a friend saw a video

of himself or a friend saw him on the list where people were, and then people were making videos. And then he called the FBI and he said, Hey, I need to talk to you. And this is what's going on. If he was a Fed, why would they remove him from the list when everybody's clearly looking at the list? He was like, one of the only people removed. Why would senators be defending him so vigilantly? Why wouldn't that?

That's a great question. Why was he quietly removed right when the question of federal involvement became a major part of the national conversation? So, and let me just, I don't want to get lost in these weeks. I just want to know you don't do. Yeah. Oh, man. So weird. He doesn't want to get lost in the weeds of examining the ways that his theory doesn't stand up to scrutiny totally unfamiliar behavior Listen, I don't want to get into the details of why I'm lying to you. All right, all right. Just a flimsy ass argument Also, the question lingers unanswered if Epps was a fed why would they remove him from the most wanted list? If he's a fed provocateur willing to engage in actions meant to incite people to storm the capital You got to think the guy's not above taking a bribe to accept a couple month jail sentence

to maintain that cover. Yeah, totally. If he has a fed, the last thing they would do is number one, put him on the list in the first place. And then number two, remove him from that list and make things very suspicious. Yeah. Also, Destiny is totally right about pretty much everything about apps, but he makes a critical error here, which is also kind of Darren's fault.

Destiny says that Darren has these two snapshots and his revolver article that are from the way back machine of the FBI's wanted list. She said that they don't depict when a page has been changed. Just shows when it was archived. Sure. The two snapshots that Darren has here are from February 16, 2021 and July 1, 2021. The first one shows EPS included as photograph 16, and the latter does not include a photograph 16 at all,

jumping from 15 to 17. Okay. Because Darren has this wide gulf between the two snapshots, there's no reason to believe that the page wasn't updated somewhere between those two dates, and he's just assuming that it was on July 1st. Sure.

It could be any time in there, and that's what Destiny is. It hasn't proven anything about that. This is sloppy work, which Destiny is calling out, but I don't know if Destiny pursued the second step here, which is to check for himself. The FBI's web pages are archived constantly, so there's a version of this particular site from every multiple archive versions of which were everywhere. And the reality is that Epps was on there on June 30th and not on

July 1st. Oh, Darren's provided screenshots that don't show this, but it is the case that the change to the FBI site appears to have happened that day. Okay. This doesn't support Ray Epps calling on that day and them changing it. No, no. He did call really like in January. Oh, okay. Yeah, he called on like January 8th or something like that. Okay, okay. So the, this doesn't prove anything that Ray Epps has a fed. It can easily just be that Epps's lawyer began the process of cooperation with the FBI in mid to late January and it took a couple of months of back and forth or even administrative

processes to get to the point where he came off that wanted list. That makes sense. Destiny's general point here is correct, but he's challenging Darren on a point of fact that he seems to be incorrect about. This isn't a great position to be in, and I understand how the snapshots in Darren's article could lead to that conclusion, but that wasn't because Darren was wrong. He just did a bad job in the article. Right, right, right.

Also, you notice how much easier it is for people to talk about sentences and shit when Alex isn't there. Ah, yeah. They can actually get some information and it's not just a hostile I'm gonna Twitter's gonna talk on you tomorrow This is this is an interesting case study in you and me Uh, in a lot of ways because there's a part of you that is excited whatever the destiny and because there's a part of you that is excited, whatever the destiny and derivating it. It's a change of pace. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Whereas me, I'm just sitting here going, stop this.

What are you doing? What are you doing? No, I mean, I yearn for the Alex drunkenly yelling, but it is, it is at least like a promise of the premise of a debate that people are going to have some like actual back and forth. And so at least there's there's a little meat on the bone. And then now we, you know, there's just a shitload of let's get back to drinking dessert. It's a laced

it's like a cake that's made with cognac. Too much cognac. Yeah. So Darren and the left up on the panel. Sure, Destiny and Brad bed. They find some agreement seemingly on apps. So you're saying he said we need to go into the capital peacefully. And you point out correctly that in many instances caught on video, he's engaged in what you could call deescalation, the crowd and he's not urging people to violence. That's all correct. I never said he's urging people

to violence. He was absolutely a provocateur and his mission as stated and as implemented and as orchestrated by his own verbatim text was he wanted people to go into the capital peacefully. So that might be the case. Wait, that might be the case. And if that's all you're saying, it's not all. No, that's everything. That's everything. Nobody here. So it is all. It is saying that he didn't say that, and he didn't want people to do that. But the claim is that there's some sort of...

That's illegal. That's fine. He can be charged for it. Do you think anybody's here? Carefree gets charged for that crime. The issue is you're saying that he was doing it under the direction of a federal agency. Yeah, the six-three guy that looks like he's dying of type two diabetes on arthritis is somehow some intimidating Marine captain that's sending people into the capital. That was your claim that you've provided zero evidence for and you don't and either of the articles that you write about him. So we got Glenn Beck on the horn. Oh, whoa, Glenn was gone. Yeah, and he also

was accidentally said Glenn Beck. That's fun. That's fun. So this is a critical moment to understand here. Darren is laying out undeniably true things about Epps. He said that people should go into the capital peacefully and let's code on video. You can't deny that. Right. He wants you to agree to that, which of course you have to. But the real argument Darren is making is what destiny lays out there. That Epps was doing all this under the auspices of being a federal agent for a vachatur. Right. This is a rhetorical strategy known as the Motten Bailey. It's named after an old-timey castle structure, where there would be a part that was strong and easy to defend the Mot and an external part that was harder to defend the Bailey.

The rhetorical strategy mirrors this structure, where somebody has a position that's very easy to defend, in this case that Ray Epps said that he wanted people to go into the capital and a much more difficult case to defend, in this case that Ray Epps was an agent provocateur working for the government or some other organization to entrap Trump supporters. In terms of the castles, when the Bailey came under attack, people would retreat to the mat because it was fortified and it would stand up to attack better, and this is what you see a lot of folks do in argumentation.

The idea that Ray Epps is a fed is a very difficult position to defend, so in order to support his position, Darren retreats to the more easy to defend position, the EPS said that he wanted people to go into the capital. It doesn't prove his point, but it forces agreement between himself and the person he's arguing with, and if people aren't paying attention to this, it can be a pretty effective strategy.

So my question to these people then would be if the government is doing all this undercover fed infiltration stuff, uh, why don't you join them? That sounds way more fun. That sounds way more fun than you're hanging out at a little militia thing and you clearly want to be part of the movie aspect of this stuff. So why are you not joining the government and becoming one of those people? Well, I think there's two points. One, if you're talking about people like Adarin or these folks who are in the media and stuff, this shit pays a lot better. Yeah, yeah, no, not them for sure, not that.

If you're talking about the rank and file folks, joining the government isn't an option for them. This is all make believe. But joining the team that is the sleuths on the case, trying to get all these fed provocateurs and shit, that is doable. You can do that. Sure, I just feel like. It's the only job opening that there is. Siding, like being on the side of the government,

there's nothing there. I mean, I just do it. Well, if you really believe that there's the chance to go and be a like fed undercover, if you really believe fed undercover agents are everywhere all the time, you know, inciting people, become one of them. That'd be fun. But you can't. You can't.

There's nothing that, like, what are you, what are you going to do in a list? I think so. Yeah. I think that's what you do. Go find a cop and be like, I wanna be an agent provocateur. Listen, what you do, here's what you do about. You start at the mailroom, right?

Everybody does. Sure, yeah. So Darren's trapped because he has no other real evidence that Eps is a fat. He has this recontextualized circumstantial nonsense. So pressed on it like this, he's in trouble. Destiny and bed have agreed with the easy position to defend, but they still don't agree with the more difficult one. So the next place this argument should

go is Darren being forced to defend why he thinks Eps is a fed beyond all the stuff that he's already laid out. And he can't. So I'm Waldo. He's tall. And it's weird that this is where Ian jumps in to try and change the subject and throw things to Glen. That almost seems like him being able to tell that Darren was in trouble. And if that went on any longer, he'd be forced to say something like, it's just my opinion. And that's basically like, I lose. Yeah, in terms of Ian, you know, we talked a little bit about the instability,

instability of the things that he's, the ideas that he's putting forth. But his instincts for when to jump in and in terms of a rhetorical argument. I don't know if, I mean, obviously this would be me leaping to a conclusion I can't defend. Sure. But I do know that he has an earpiece in or something.

Because he's getting, towards the end of this, he says that the producers are telling him that they need to go to the questions. So he is getting at least some kind of a production. All right. No, and I don't think it's impossible that someone's like jumping. And jumping, yeah.

Or, but I don't know that that's the case. And for me to say like that's what's happening. No, no, it would be the same thing as you. Yeah, it would be a little conspiracy-ish of me. Right. But I don't think it's outside the realm of possible. Right. I mean, based upon the combination of what we know of Ian

being working with Timpoule and some of the things he said, it sounds plausible that there's somebody in his ear. I'll figure that out. There is definitely someone in his ear, but with their saying that stuff, I have no idea. But it does, it does start to add up the number of times that he seems to jump in, particularly when, right at time.

Darin or Alex is particularly out of sorts. So Glenn comes in and he has some thoughts on informants. Chair. Yeah, what is been very mentioned. Uh-oh. I'm here from Glenn Raywall. That, chair. But what's happened? What's happened? Well, I just, I mean, I only heard last four minutes of the conversation, but I'm still always amazed by, I really don't understand the argument because the FBI in the US Security

State before January 6 was saying that they regard the greatest threat to national security not as being ISIS or al-Qaeda or Hamas or Hezbollah or China or any other foreign threat. They regard the greatest threat as being right linked to massacred extremists on whom, in whom that was included on many lists, the oath

keepers, the three percenters. And all of the people in the groups that they said orchestrated January 6th is the argument that you think that the FBI was not monitoring and infiltrating those groups because there's actually a ton of evidence that the FBI

had their hooks in all three of those groups and not only had their hooks in them but on January 6th had informants on the ground who were pretending to be Trump supporters who were talking in real time to the FBI about everything that was happening. So I just want to understand what the claim is, is claim that the FBI was not involved in the groups that organized January 6 and didn't have the claim?

Is that claim? No, it is not. They weren't instigated. So that's your claim. So in terms of the vice president of theath Keepers was an FBI informant. The proud boys had at least three and as many as eight and the New York Times itself reported that there were FBI informants and the proud boys who were inside the Capitol texting their handlers as the event unfolded.

So Glenn's point is fair enough, but it still doesn't prove anything. You could have 100 informants inside a giant organization that is like the proud boys and still not have anyone who is in the upper levels of the group who were in the private messaging groups that were planning for the six. And it is true that Greg McWordier, the VP of the Oathkeepers, wasn't in format, but we don't know what he informed about or the length of his existence in this role. It's possible that he gave warnings that went unheeded, but we don't know that. Yeah, it's not it's not clear. in this role. It's possible that he gave warnings that went unheated, but we don't know that. Yeah. It's not, it's not clear. So what is clear is that there are records of Stuart Rhodes and

other Oathkeepers who aren't informants actively planning what they were going to do. Another thing that is clear is that for over a decade on Alex's show, Stuart has been begging for the chance to try to overthrow the government. Yeah. And he didn't need anyone to trick him into doing any of that shit. I mean, we've heard him say so many times. Oh yeah. I want to violently overthrow the government. Yes. I want to be made head of my own military.

I mean, it's literally the one thing that I genuinely respect about him is that he said exactly what he wanted. He was more blunt than a lot of folks. Yeah. But here again, you have Glenn performing an attempt at the same type of slide of hand that BD used earlier. He has an undeniable position, which is that there were informants inside the Oathkeeper's and Proud Boys.

But the real argument that he's making is that the informants are actually the ones who cause January 6th, which is unsupported. When the unsupported argument Glenn is making gets challenged, he retreats to the safety of the undisputable argument that there were informants. And that's a lot of the shell game that's going on in terms of these arguments, and you can't get anywhere with it. I, here's one thing that I truly love

that just popped into my head. There are FBI agents, there's two FBI agents, buddies. Probably go out drinking. One of them an oath keepers informant, the other one a proud boys informant. And the proud boys guy just must have been like, man, I had to do the fucking cereal thing. I had to do all this shit.

The oath keepers guys just like, I look cooler than you. Which one of them is Johnny Utah. Right? Like it is, like, can you imagine? Is that his name? Yes. Point break, yeah. Okay.

The, the, I went through the FBI. I'm in the whole thing. I'm a special agent. All right. We're gonna hit you while you name Syrials. Yeah. That's, you know, I think, I think they might like weed out feds

by people who are too good at making Syrials. Wait a second. This dude's gotten into maltomeal. Come on man. And if you say something like weedabix, they're like, do you work for the crown? You. Okay.

Top knobs? Yeah, it's not serious. So, bed tries to get to the point here and ask Darren if Epps was a fed. Okay. Because that question, you got to get to the heart of the matter. Yeah, yeah. I'm just confused. So, you're saying that Ray Epps was actually a federal agent who was indicted, who pled

guilty and is likely going to get six months in prison. Is that your argument? Well, the New York Times for that. Wait, wait, wait, wait. Like, so about apps, you know, so a couple of things there. You don't find it a little bit strange. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait life just because we both twirled upon this. And I'm not invited both of us simultaneously. Yeah, you just needed to. This voice just needed to.

The context. The context in the immediate aftermath of January 6th, by the words of Steve Sherwin, who is in charge of the prosecution, their posture was one of quote-unquote shock and awe. They were going after everyone. They were hitting them very hard. Now again, think about central casting.

On paper, Ray Epps, he's the six, three, former Marine in camouflage gear with a Trump hat. The only guy caught on videos early is a fifth telling people to go into the Capitol who's there on the six directing people to the Capitol who's right there pre-position at that initial breach phase. And this and the end, and the end, helping Ramassan.

Exactly. And he happens to be a former head of the oath keepers. And you're not telling me it's bizarre, wait a second. You're not telling me it's at least a little bit bizarre that of all January six participants, he's the only one who gets a New York Times puff piece. He's the only one who gets a New York Times puff piece. He's the only one who gets a 60, 60 minutes sympathy segment is the only one that Adam

Kinsinger will defend. So you're saying that New York Times is now working with the feds, working with Ray Epps to the president? Yes. No, and why do you think you're going to say why do they say that we're telling them these in Iraq? So going back, going, why do they say they were dumbing them decent? I like so so going back going why do they wait? There's not a good one.

You said that part. I want to address your question directly. You're saying if you were an asset, by the way, I'm not definitive in the sense that oh, I don't think he was working directly for the FBI. I don't even know if he is directly working for the other party. He was an asset. He was acting on behalf of a third party. He was not an authentic actor

on that day. That I will say with a great, you know, Bob is her. But wait a second. Let me say one thing. I've been offered to manage. Yeah, Drinking. So here, bed is asking a direct question that cuts to the core of the undefended argument that BD is making. In response, he does what you'd expect. He retreats to the safer territory of all of these talking points that don't actually support his argument, but you can't really dispute. Oh, you're saying he wasn't six three? Exactly. So he lays out all this shit that doesn't amount to anything in terms of his argument. Then he says, don't you think it's weird that he's the

one who gets a New York Times puff piece? And Destiny is pretty right on there. Why did he get that puff piece? So there's two possible answers. One is because you guys chose him to be special. Wow. By demon eyes again. Wow. And the other that Darren definitely doesn't want to touch is that part of some of those puff pieces happened because, you know, they made him a giant scapegoat for January 6th, his life was family being terrorized. So he sued Fox News. Sure. That's why a lot of the media attention that exists recently has been there. They're giving him some sort of special treatment and maybe maybe some other January or six participants don't get that same treatment. He's getting special treatment because Daren

chose to make him special with the propaganda attack. Yeah. But because this whole thing has been challenged and Daren's entire stick boils down to don't you think it's weird level statements. He's forced to moderate his stance to now being that he doesn't know if he's a federal and a for a bit for the government, but just that he was an agent of some unknown, unnamed third party. This argument that Darren is making amounts to less than nothing and he's said that like federal stuff already is he's retreating because he's stuck not because he actually is thinking like, oh, no, my whole entire consistent position has been

that it's just some random, I don't know who third party. I love the idea of some random third party being like, okay, so what can I think it is? What? The Milwaukee Bucks. I mean, first off off what kind of organization chooses this specific group of people to do this specific type of action on Right specter like exactly

It's not like ISIS. ISIS isn't infiltrating fucking the Maga movement Who's your big bad if it's not the government? I think probably Dr. Doom. Okay, I'll take that one. Also, I get what you're saying, like the, oh, why is the biggest threat that have been I think that why isn't it China or anything? It's like, there's oceans. There's oceans.

Do you know why they're the biggest threat? They're right next door. Right, and it's like, there's oceans. There's oceans. Do you know why they're the biggest threat? They're right next door. Right, and it's not like the government doesn't acknowledge the ways in which geo-politically China is in somewhat of an adversarial posture with us. Yeah. The economic difficulties that result

between the two countries. Competition itself. But in terms of domestic extremism, the country of China is not necessarily like, what do they send up both? Right, or yeah, it's a little much. There's a Chinese worship off the coast of San Francisco.

Oh, shit. What? Well, no, I mean like, you know, when COVID was happening, Mike Adams said that it was part of preparing for the Chinese land invasion. Oh my God. So like, I mean, that definitely was on for a while. Seriously, somebody try a land invasion just so we don't have to deal with that anybody ever thinking it makes any sense ever again.

I don't think it's gonna happen. No. So it's a little frustrating here because Destiny's response of like, why did they get those puff pieces? It's exactly the right next thing to say. And you see how it's pretty easily deflected. Yeah, yeah. Anyone watching this who likes Alex and Darren,

they wouldn't even have registered as that is something to check into. Nope. So Alex is back and they deal with the issue of like, why did he get prosecuted if he's a, if he's a fan? Well, I'll take this one. Thank you, Derek. Sit down, nerd. Let me say one thing.

I've been in over 10 minutes. It's a victory. They went from saying he's an angel of CNN, MSNBC, New York Times. He's perfectly nailed. But I was a pressure. I've been forced to indict him. Alex, quick thing on that. They, the, the, uh, criminal complaint acknowledges that he engaged in,

quote, unquote, phalonius behavior. But among the mitigating factors that they cite is, oh, this poor guy was a victim of all these conspiracy theories. It's pretty remarkable. He was though. He was. I want to address. I want to do the front of the other. Why don't you answer? Why were people writing? I just want to just quickly answer the question about your question. Basically, if he was an asset, why did they go after his own, their own asset? Why would they indict their own asset? That happens all the time. In fact, that's almost the norm that ultimately when the assets when they have undercover people, they'll end die. I'm just. Yeah. when the assets become, are you helping now?

They indict them. So this is just a load of fun storytelling that doesn't really relate to the circumstances and reality at all. Darren's still dodging the question, Destiny's posing of why the New York Times and others are writing pieces about Ray Epps, which is obviously because he's suing Fox News

for defamation, a large part of which is Tucker's coverage of Epps, most of which featured Darren Bede as a guest. Probably doesn't want to talk about that. Yeah, full. Referring, returning to the question of if he's an asset, then why did they indict him? You know, by saying people who do,

people do that all the time, you know, if that's your rebuttal. Yeah. It isn't actually helping us get any further towards making a case. The people making the claim have the responsibility of backing it up. And in this case, it's Alex and Darren clearly saying

that Epps is a fed or I guess now that he's an agent of a mysterious third party. Saying the indict agents all the time is a dodge to Ben's question, but it doesn't get anywhere closer to showing that EPS is or isn't an agent, but it kind of feels like it does. Also, it's a person who's an agent of a third party, what relationship to the government,

why would the government give them special treat- Who knows? If they're not a- I don't know. I mean, are they contractors? Maybe. Yeah. So, this is like what a lot of this debate boils down to, particularly for Darren. It's a lot of stuff that means nothing and doesn't have a point but kind of feels like it does.

Yeah. A lot of feelings of like, ugh, isn't it weird? What I find interesting is that they, they count it as a win when they make irrelevant information equal. If that makes sense, you know, like whenever Darren Beatty can be like, aha, we're both making irrelevant points.

Right. Beatty counts that as a win. Yeah, well, I mean, like if you have, you know, bed saying, hey, why did they indict him if he's a fed? And Darren's argument back is that happens all the time. Who cares? That only proves that it is possible. Yeah.

That he could be indicted and still be a fed. It doesn't prove that he is. Which we are. He gets us nowhere. We already knew it was possible. So, it's in the hypothetical realm of possibilities. Yeah. Great.

Congratulations. So, both of you have said a neutral non-statement, but Bady takes that as having implied that he's the victor. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Yeah, because, unfair. Well, it's not that they both said nothing, because BAD is at least asking a question.

Sure. Sure. That would, in theory, lead to more information being discussed. Theoretically. BD treats it as a win because he's dodged that. Sure. That's why he treats it as a win. Well, right. But I mean, yeah, yeah.

So anyway, bed brings up the lawsuit because basically it's like, you aren't answering the question. Yeah. But why there's all this coverage? So let's just... So we just bring it up. Yeah. You're saying that Ray Epps is a federal agent. Well, I didn't say that. Well, as he was acting on behalf of the third property, he was in an authentic actor on James'

show. Even though there's no evidence of this. And then you're saying he's going, he's turning around and he's suing Fox News for defamation, which is going to open up all, all, all sorts of cans of worms with discovery that he's going to have to provide legally the court. You think that if he was a federal agent, he'd be suing Fox News for death.

They know they control the jurisdiction, but he did say what text message that day during an eye orch. He's going to sue for defamation. Super deputant to his nephew that asked him if he was there. He said I or she said I or

she was nephew to his nephew. Wow. That's a better way. Why have a federal agent text such incriminating evidence who is an nephew? Why was he indicted before? We made him the centerpiece. That's incredible. He was all over the news. They were for you to do it. Thanks to Tucker Carlson and Professor Darren Beaties were. Wait, wait, why do you trust Tucker Carlson when he said he lied to you?

Tucker Carlson said Sidney Powell was crazy. Tucker Carlson left Fox News because he didn't believe the election fraud claims that he was being forced to push on TV because of Trump. Why would you trust Tucker Carlson of all people? Tucker early on thought it was wrong.

Now he says he was wrong about that. Now he says he thinks he'll have a crazy. When the answer goes away, when his lawsuit goes away the answer is changed whether you're right or wrong you have a right to question the election no one wants to take that right. So bed clearly just realized that they were never going to acknowledge the lawsuit unless the issue was forced so kudos to him for just doing it. Yeah great answer by Alex just saying to another control the jurisdiction and then moving

on to Epps texting his nephew, which we already covered in this debate more than once. Also we see here the potential downside of getting involved on the side of a blustery drunk Alex. He's very explicitly saying that a concerted effort by Darren and Tucker along with Alex made Ray Epps the centerpiece of the right wing narratives about January 6th. If the people who are suing Fox News have any interest in adding defendants, Alex is going to give them a nice road map. Alex is in the clear since he and in fours are in bankruptcy, but Darin and revolver have a fair amount to gain by not being sued here. If I were Darin, I wouldn't

be thrilled. Yeah. Destiny has a good point with Tucker, but I would just go the full mile on this one and bring up how Tucker is flat out admitted that he lies when he needs to. I mean, I lie. If I'm really cornered or something, I lie. I really try not to. I try never to lie on TV. I just don't, you know, I don't like lying. I certainly do it, you know, out of weakness or whatever. Yeah, so if you lie because it's too scary or dangerous to your image to admit that you're wrong about something, you're not someone people should take too seriously. It's a testament of how much a disaster our public information space truly is that he could say that openly on Dave Rubens show like two years ago and it made zero difference

to his standing. I lie for money. See? Everybody does that. And boy do I hate doing it. It sucks. It sucks to be a multi-millionaire for lying to God. It is rough to be forced to lie and when I almost face consequences for it I didn't. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think I think that

Man, the guy doesn't seem cool. He doesn't seem above board. That's not seem cool So someone else who's not cool is Glenn Greenwald and he pops in here to condos and a little more Great. The whole context for this conversation is again, I mean, you just keep going back to it because it's so easy to see. People have this idea of the FBI like, oh, they don't do this sort of thing. Earlier, I think it was Ed who said, wait, why would the New York Times run a puppies? Do you think they're working with the FBI?

Like that idea to him is so different. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. It was me. No, I, history of the FBI. like that idea to him is so different. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. It was me. No, I don't like the history of the FBI. I don't like the history of the FBI. It's not the same. No idea that the FBI throughout the entire war on terror did this over and over.

They would target and entrap all sorts of vulnerable Muslims to engage in pots that the FBI created in order to create a narrative that the FBI was needed because there was a much bigger threat of Islamic terrorism. And there actually was. The FBI has been infiltrating and then using promocators to encourage groups to commit crime so that the FBI can gain more power, can spread this narrative. You have power. Incredibly naive, or only paying attention to the news since 2016, thinking Donald Trump

is the only thing to understand that this is what the FBI has been doing for decades. And so to have this naive attitude, like, oh, it's the New York Times working with the FBI, that is what the media in this country has been doing. But you have no evidence of it. You're making it. You're just making theories up. I just add a nice little colorful detail there. The author of the Ray Epps puff piece that asks none of the questions that would get to the core of his involvement there. It's total puff piece. You can read it yourself. Total.

Total of that. His previous work includes the CIA authorized account of the Sinaloa cartel. Oh, case closed then. Yeah. I mean, okay. There you go. So Glenn's correct that there are a bunch of entrapment plots that the FBI is carried out in the aftermath of 9-11 and and in other circumstances, throughout their history.

That's true. Where he gets into trouble, however, is that that doesn't mean that everything the FBI does is some kind of an elaborate plot. There is that. Proving or demonstrating that something could be an FBI plot because they've done it some plots in the past is not the same thing that proving something is.

All that anyone on a Glenn, Darren, or Alex's side is really able to substantially demonstrate is that it's possible that their conspiracy theories are true. They can't prove them and they have no proof to offer, but they could be true for all sorts of reasons. The FBI has bolded in trapman plots in the past, even though I thought Darren and Alex are trying to avoid saying the federal government because they were scared to answer that question earlier. So they're not, here's the thing though, Destiny and Bed showed up for the debate, which is essentially means that we've already established that they think that this is something that can be debated, which is to say it's possible that Alex's side is right.

They disagree, but they wouldn't debate something that they don't think is even in the realm of being possible because someone who believes something that is not in the realm of possibilities by definition irrational and beyond argument. Yes. The right wing side here needs to cut the bullshit and actually provide some actual meat as opposed to this it could happen level speculation. It's all dismissible by saying it could happen, but you haven't given me any reason to think it did happen.

That's what their argument lives or dies by proving that it did happen, not that it could. And that's just an essential failure that will not be patched up. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that if you were going to bring up the FBI's track record as evidence, their framing conservative lunatics, barking up the wrong government agency for that one. Well, FBI famous anti, or, you know, we're getting into a little bit of a academic analysis of that down the road here as the thing goes on. But yeah, there's a bit of a trend there. So Alex, Jay Agar Hoover was at J6 just to be clear. He was there. So Alex was

drinking. Well, they talked about Ray apps the first time. And so Alex said sites get into Ray apps. Great. My God. The man is like a chicken with his head cut off for three days, including the day of the event running around saying go in the capital. He's ramming signs into people. He testifies I orchestrated this attack. Yeah, not testifying. And then there was a Jan 6th committee. They asked about this text message. I did that text. Yeah, the text. He didn't testify that he or he testified to the Jan 6th committee. He sent the message to his nephew. He testified. He orchestrated it to the Jensics Committee. He's you keep keep it a rough, because you can't, I'm not telling the truth.

I'm Michael's always slamming on you. And what's going to happen is everybody's going to get this clip. Yeah. He testified the Jensics Committee. They said, is this your text message? Yes. He said, yes, I told my nephew I orchestrated it. Now stop.

Let me finish my point. Hey, Amber, it's just there. Thank you for being honest. There, you keep asking. That was unnecessary. That wasn't necessary. I orchestrated it. I applaud it. You you for being honest. Is there? You keep at it. That was unnecessary. That wasn't necessary. I applaud it.

He said he tested it. He said to his nephew that he said that. Yes. In a text message. And he did orchestrate it. He did test the five. He did. So the point is that I've written a hellier.

Where's the evidence that he orchestrated it? I'd love to see that. He's static. I'll snap you. Open a shot. Maybe. Friends things all the time. That's right. That's my point.

Cause you guys, let me finish my point. They're all over every major corporate channel saying this poor little baby, they're saying he was a fed or an operative or a provocateur or some NGO. He didn't do anything wrong. And when it got so obvious, they finally indicted him with a slap on the wrist. And then you're sitting here saying he didn't testify. He just testified.

Whoa, he said he didn't testify that he orchestrated. He tech testified that he sent that text to his nephew. And he orchestrated it. I don't know. Yeah, Alex, that is if he actually orchestrated it, what was his answer?

In the transcript, he said, it wasn't that he orchestrated. So if I send somebody message saying, or bank is robbed, I robbed the bank. I have to do it for a delicious text message to anybody that you know. Like you, like maybe not, maybe not you. I can't see you doing that, but maybe.

Actually, I'm kind of an understanding. So Alex is kind of too drunk and has no comprehension skills, so he can't even really track the things that are being said to him. I was going to say, yeah. He was saying or at least speaking in a way, designed to heavily imply that Ray Epps testified at the J6 committee that he orchestrated the events that destiny and bed are trying desperately to clarify that Epps testified that he sent that text to his nephew, but not that he orchestrated the riots.

Right. Alex is either unable or unwilling to recognize the distinction, and thus we get this exchange for both parties think they scored a dunk. But Alex brings up how honest everything must be in texts, and it would be real shame if someone were to be able to review his text messages. Shame that's not possible. Yeah, I imagine that there was nobody on this planet who has a shit ton of Alex's text messages.

So if we assume that Alex is right, and people never talk shit and just say things in their text messages, I wonder what this exchange with Eddie Bravo tells us. Interesting. So Eddie tells him, quote, it's awesome you're having an open mind about this realm we live on.

So much scientific evidence where we are not on a ball shooting through space. If you wanted to bat on your show, three scientists versus three of my top flat earthers, I can set it up. It would break the internet. It would. Alex replies, yes, exclamation point. Let's do it. Exclamation point. The Hubble video blew me away. Oh my god. Eddie replies, quote, Hubble fake as fuck. All the air, all from the airplane Sophia. Alex replies, quote, yes, it's proven. A little bit later, Eddie says quote, zero proof. The sun is 93 million miles away. It's super close. Maybe 3000 miles up.

If the ISS is supposedly 250 miles up, then the sun being 3000 miles up makes sense. Yeah, Alex replies quote, yes, who knows what we do know is they're working for somebody really evil. Eddie says, sorry. what we do know is they're working for somebody really evil. And he says, Wait, I'm sorry. And he says, quote, look into the fake moon mission now with your new eyes. If you do that debate on your show to protect your credibility, make sure you're, make it clear you're not a flat Earther, but you're open to hearing it out.

Sure. Alex says, quote, yes, I want to. They're hiding something. A couple weeks later, Alex sent a flat Earther video to Mike Adams and said, quote, how do you disprove this? I know you can. I know the flat-earth stuff is bull. I know you can't. I know the flat-earth stuff is bull. It's just spreading. Oh my God. I guess sometimes we're not really honest in text messages and we kind of just talk shit to bond with and impress

the people in our lives. Like Ray Epstein with his nephew and Alex did with Eddie Brava. So cut the shit. I do, I do think that there is actually something deeply true and large within Alex texting something like, how do you disprove this? I know you can. You know, like that yearning of just like, I am aware of what it is I am supposed to do. And I cannot do it. I am supposed to do. And I can't, I cannot do it.

I can't do this. And I'm scared a little bit that Eddie's right. Yeah, yeah, no, this true like weakness in a man of like, I don't fundamentally understand anything. How do you disprove flat earth? Do this for me so I can ignore it. I'm making sure I have a flat earth debate. Yep. So, bad, try to take things a little bit

of a different direction and ask, what charges should Ray Epps have gotten if what you want to be? Good question. What you guys are indefensible. My question is, what should Ray Epps have been charged with? What law did he break that instead of what he was charged with, I think, was obstructing the proceeding? Let him respond.

He was not charged with that. That's the interesting. He was not charged with obstruction of an official proceeding, which would have been a very easy charge and a fairly short of murder on my team. Exactly. So wait, wait, let me answer this comprehensively. So first of all, it's extremely strange, given how conspicuous and egregious

and concentrated his behavior was, that he somehow was able to avoid the obstruction of official proceeding charge. Number one, number two, they're even more serious charges they could have given them. In fact, in the series of videos that we put out, there's one specific exchange he had with another guy. He said, when we go in, leave this here. We don't want to get shot. But when we go in, leave this here, he's referring to that individual's bear spray. That individual ends up going into the Capitol, committing violence and doing a whole bunch

of other things. And this is a bizarre case because this guy who is super egregious has to this day not fully been charged. His case hasn't even gone to a district judge yet. So the upstruck case. So let me let me give you a sense, let me give you a sense. Because when we're evaluating these things, we have to compare them to standards applied to others. Now, let me stop here. You'll go next. Oh, I'm so here. I'm in the middle of here. He's a badass guy that helps disabled children.

He's going to bottle that feeling. Super good person. You can't. It's called booze. You can bottle it if you get it at you, you can store it. That dude cannot just shut the fuck up and let his weirdo friend feel the question. No, it's so important to throw Owens down my ass into this under stage. Amazing. So Darren's not answering the question here because it's likely that if you stake a firm position, it could bite him in the ass later. So this becomes a game of what about this

thing. Yeah. That just doesn't really connect to finding any real answers. Darren is right here though that Epps was charged with disorderly conduct, not disrupting the proceeding. A likely part of this was that he was already on his way home to the hotel when the proceeding was actually disrupted and because he was cooperative and pled guilty. If the prosecutors wanted to charge him with harsher stuff, I don't think the people would have been too upset. Honestly, living the rest of your life being the target of shithead conspiracy theorists

desperate for escape goat so they can keep monetizing domestic extremism is a far worse fate than a couple months in jail. If I were upside to taking the jail time over that shit, no question. Please, yeah, if I could go back, yeah. So Darren doesn't specifically name the other person who Ray Epps is talking to in that,

leave this here video. And no matter where you look, I can't find anybody saying what his name is, which is weird. So I watch that video and Darren is saying that the guy, you know, Darren says that he's being told to leave his bare mace, but there's nothing of that sort on screen.

This is assumed, that is what it is. I've heard other people assume that maybe it was a club. Sure. But it could also just be the guy's bullhorn. He's talking to a bullhorn. Yeah. There's no support to make a definitive claim, but what was what Ray Epps was saying to leave behind and to stake the position of his bare maces, strange.

So I went through a ton of charging documents and the FBI's page of folks that who arrested or of interest in the events of January 6th. It took forever, but I think I figured out who the guy is. He's wearing a fairly distinctive red and black plaid shirt and black hood. His face is not visible in the video with Epsil, it's kind of hard to say for sure,

but there's one other reason that I think I figured out who the guy is. The person in the video is a bit of an accent, and I think that it comes from Philly. I think it's a Philly accent. Okay. And this guy who was wearing the red and black plaid shirt, and the same sort of body type is from Pennsylvania.

Okay. He's from the middle of Pennsylvania. All right. That's a little philly. That's a little philly. I mean, I go, okay, we'll see. The person that I have a suspicion is who Darren is talking about is a guy named Marshall Neif.

And he didn't have bear mace. But the problem with this theory is that Darren says that the guy hasn't even gone to a Disrup judge, but Neif entered a plea agreement in March 2022 and was sentenced to 41 months in prison that September. So I can't say because Darren pretends to know who this person is, but doesn't say a name and just gives vague details. But if that's who he was talking about, that case is in no way comparable to apps. He went into the Capitol, assaulted an officer and there's a long track record of him planning with his friend who he was also charged with actions in DC. They wanted to like, they hope to start a war. Yeah.

The war would start. Yeah. I don't know for sure if this is the right person, but if it is, his actions aren't comparable. So the charges are not a reasonable standard to compare these two, but we may never know what was going to play out because Alex had to butt in there to complain about Owen Troyer. We may never get to an answer of who this person was because Alex had to, you're next. I'm going to interrupt you. Yep, yeah, man. I got to talk about community service for a little bit. Wow.

Yeah, I see this is still one of those things where it's like, I feel like we've gotten into a conversation about a detail that is largely irrelevant to the point that we're talking about. Like again, the courts are in on it. It doesn't matter what charges they bring. They could bring any charges. They could bring, I don't like you today charges. You know, like that the courts are in on it you can that can no longer matter but the questions being asked by the party that doesn't think that right that's why there's that disconnect right but you that's but the idea of that question is to point out that it doesn't matter and then you that but the continuing to talk about it means nothing well I don't I don't know if I fully agree with you,

but I do agree that they are dealing with a topical thing instead of the under the surface. The problem that actually under lies, their disagreement is not getting anywhere near dealt with. Yeah, not even close. But Owen's, what about Owen? What about Owen? What about Owen?

How is Owen doing? Is he still on the, is he still on the air? Yeah, he's doing the war room. Damn. He's doing good. Big beard. He's doing good. Shut up.

This is me saying, don't go in. They charge him. And in the charging document, say, Owen's lying, he doesn't work for info wars. That's in the charging documents, the synancing documents. The judge says, I'm putting you in these months in federal prison because you just questioned the election again and gave three examples of why not? No, no, no, no.

So Owen, Owen spends months in a federal prison. He didn't listen to this. When he talked about the deferred agreement that he had in 2019. No, I agree. Oh, he told Pink runs around and protesting. He put tape over his mouth when they were letting leftists run around and throw red paint Congress. And they said, sir, you can't do that. And he agreed that he wouldn't do it. And he didn't protest. He went through the Congress strict. He was in every stricted area though. No, he was all listen.

Right. Yeah. There's not so much to it. Listen, listen, Owen is there with me saying, don't go in. He agreed. He would not protest. He was there saying saying don't go in. He agreed he would not protest. He was there saying don't go in the capital And you're not going to defend him going to but but he pled guilty to Everything that he got charged with because it's a rig DC Quirk there we go or he Because like the problem is on our side. We've got testimony under or without judicial rulings We've got jury trials. We've got full videos Everybody's got the video all of these

Evidence I can't finish a single save it. I really know you can't the problem is a something For being there trying to Have to prove it. What a way to guilty. Yeah, what do you do to rig DC court? Fight your case. Yeah. Innocent fight. If you have evidence that you're innocent fight, but there was no evidence because he broke the agreement that he signed and then he pled guilty and said I broke the agreement that I signed and agreed to the sentence that the sentencing guy. And Trump should mail over.

Okay. Yeah. So we got constant just deflection deflection deflection deflection. And it just Alex can't keep up. Yeah. And I think that I mean, this cuts to your issue of the courts. Like eventually you make enough rebuttals to Alex's point and it was be like, nothing is real. Exactly. Yeah. The court is just a matter of like chipping away at the deflections and tell you get to him being like, nothing is, nothing is real.

You can't trust anything. And eventually he grabs his ball and he says, I'm going to go home. Right. But there will be layers. Yes. That is a fake argument before that. That's what I'm saying. Yeah.

It's a little annoying. Whoa. So Destiny is trying to make the point here that Alex is actually arguing in favor of insurrection and act like if you don't believe that the courts are even possible to have any of your shit in, then you're actually arguing for overthrowing. Yes. And Alex doesn't really. How do you not understand that? I mean, you might understand it, but he doesn't engage.

Okay. This entire argument has been you again, arguing for an insurrection, for rebellion. All we have, everything we have over here is actual testimony under our actual actual real, actual ruling by the actual ruling by the court. We have to finish. I have to finish. I got to finish. Well, I got to finish.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, we are, we can provide these arguments. We can provide the evidence. We can provide the testimony. And all you do is go, Oh, well, I don't trust the courts. Oh, well, I don't trust statements made under oath. Oh, well, oh, hasn't the FBI done this in the past? You can skirt by providing hard evidence.

I gotta be able to finish one thing. Now how much of a criminal should you be able to? You can skirt by it. And why do you get skirt by it? You can skirt by on providing any hard evidence for literally a single claim that you've made today. There hasn't been any evidence provided to support any of the claims made today.

And you are hand-brushing. Oh, wait, every single other claim that's made literally tied by under oath by people who right. I'm not by people. That were my Trump by people that trusted over it over again. And at the end of the day, like, what could you possibly be advocating for besides an insurrection? I think you just I think it's because when I talk you get really afraid. No, no, I appreciate you.

You just said, okay, you just said what I defended. Oh, and you just said here you are advocating for insurrection again. Exact quote, a guy saying, don't go in the capital as a reporter, and you don't even stand up for the first to remember. Do you trust the court? Do you trust the courts? See, this is, this is again, Alex not being able to track a thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And some of it is maybe convenient that he can't track a thought because actually understanding the point that Destiny is making would be kind of difficult for him to get around. Yeah. And that is further clarified or destiny tries to clarify that by, you know, at the end of that clip, he says, do you not trust the courts? Yeah. And so he tries to, he tries to get to the nub here. Yeah.

Do you trust the courts? I don't think most Americans do. That's when you have real. Okay. If you don't trust the court, real revolution. What are you doing, a real revolution? There you go. Hey, listen, we're not trying to go there right now. We're all there right now.

We just, it's January 6th. If there was any time to go, no worry, touch me. If there is, where would you do the real. Do touch me. Sure. Okay, we'll see. Okay.

Where is the, didn't like four people dying on January 6th from obesity and meth? If these are the people we have to find it, it would be okay. Ashley, Babba, you're doing it, aren't you four people dying on January six from obesity and meth. I think these are the people we have to fight it. It would be okay. Ashley Babba, you're doing eyes in her. Was she on meth? I don't think she was one of the four that died from meth. She definitely gunshot.

Oh, she, uh, did she deserve to be shown? She was trying to climb into an area where federal agents were saying, if you're climbing her on a shoot, she said, federal gods, federal, federal god. You just have to have the right to shoot. So was you going to pull the trigger on her? You liked it. If I was one of the federal agents there and I thought it was a

pretty job is to pretend their job is to protect the people inside. That the way I like that. No, you guys were the ones cheering on the other side. All right, I think I was cheering. I don't do you guys were cheering for the entire time. Talking about Owen, we have a lot of work. I would know what do we do if we don't trust the question.

We don't trust the president. We don't trust the president. I'm not here to talk about Juliana Sange. There are to be friends, okay? Tell me what we do if we don't trust the president. There's a reason you won't trust the president. We don't trust the president. We don't trust the president. I'm not here to talk about Juliana's son. You're the ones to be friends, okay? Tell me, what do we do if we trust the president? There's a reason you won't answer the question. The reason why is because he answered for a billion in answer.

There's a reason why he's saying, we're out of the blue. I talked to him. We are going to get back to, okay. So we get the, the, the God Mike, uh, uh, Ian, uh, yeah, chiming in because, there's nowhere for Alex to go. There is not another, uh, chiming in because there's nowhere for Alex to go. There is not another angle in Alex.

I mean, maybe he could probably come up with a couple more deflections or something, but it seems like Destiny is pretty much like, you know, a dog with a bone here that is like, I'm going to hold on to this because you want a revolution. Right. That's what you want. And then you tried. Yeah, and so many of the arguments that you're making about January 6th are excusing the fact that you wanted a revolution and overthrow. Right. Right. What? What? Okay. So here's why I struggle with this entire thing from the from the jump. Right. All right. Is that fundamentally, before we even get to what the definition or the conversation is,

the motivation behind their position is to make it happen again. Yeah. At all costs. Yeah. Which means lying. Well, I think so. You can't do, okay. I mean, what are they going to say?

Okay. Here's why we're not going to tell you the truth About how that was an insurrection is because if we say it was an insurrection then we won't get to try next time Whereas if I lie about it then maybe people will forget for a while and then we'll get another crack at it Yeah, but I mean that's kind of the the entire mo of Alex calling all sorts of you know active Terrorism false flags. Yeah, yeah, you know, acts of terrorism falsely. Exactly. Yeah. You excuse things. You try to make it look like, oh, that's not really real in order to provide cover for and facilitate future acts of the variety.

Here is my evidence that it is an insurrection. You are telling me it's not. I mean, that wouldn't hold up in court, but I emotionally understand what you're saying. Like the only reason to tell me it's not an insurrection is so you can do it again. Or so you don't face consequences for doing it. Or you can keep monetizing. Exactly. Yeah.

So Ray Epps apparently is way worse than Rambo Joe Biggs or Stuart Rhodes. Way worse. Way worse. There is a far more serious conspiracy charge that the government had available to them. If we use the standards that they've applied in similar January six cases, it was way worse way worse than Joe Biggs or Stuart Rhodes. And he's literally we're we're sure roads saying invade the capital. We're sure roads attacking

people are ramming signs. Right? I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show.

I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show.

I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally on your show. I mean, that's literally Joe bigs. I got wrote either Joe bigs or Stuart roads Stuart roads did not do that No, one of them I forget who which one it was was he said that You don't you know what I'm gonna say though one of them's called To kill the national

is Alex to kill the national that we just answer really quickly. That's let me let me say. I think roads did say that on air. And I told him he was wrong to his face. So I'm going to be honest. Wait a second. He did. Before it happened, he did say of Trump calls us out for a civil war.

I was like, dude, I'm not for this on air. What? Very quickly. You know, it was a lot of river. Come on. So I got a rhetoric. But a rhetoric. This is idiotic equivocating under no metric. Very quickly. I really was a lot of rhetoric. I'm about to talk about some. I'm not rhetoric. I'm not rhetoric.

This is idiotic equivocating under no metric. Did Ray Epps do more than Stewart Rhodes or Joe Biggs? No. I honestly am not sure what Bed is talking about with Stewart saying they should shoot people, but I definitely think that's not out of character for Stewart. So I don't know. What interests me the most here is that Alex is having to back pedal. He says that Joe Biggs should have a year in prison. Why? Why?

He's willing to concede that Stort Road said that they should take over the Capitol and then shoot people? Sure. That seems like a giant thing to be hand waving away as just some talk, considering how seriously he's taking a text message, Ray Epsen, as nephew. Who among us hasn't listened to Stuart Rhodes claim

that it's okay to overthrow the government and then inspire people to do so? And who among us is not texted our nephew a little bit of weird stuff. I don't know exactly what Alex is even talking about but I do know that he never disagreed with roads when he laid out his plans on that. Absolutely. Like this clip from November 10th, 2020 discussing the earlier DC rally which was the culmination of Owens dumb caravan tour. Look, you know, just as Americans from across the country stormed up to Bundy Ranch to stand

up for a rancher's family, you need to go to Washington, D.C. with the same conviction. I was about to say, this is a commie tricom takeover with an admitted Chinese agent. You better get your ass to D.C. folks as Saturday. Yeah, if you don't, there will be no more republic. But we're not going to let that happen. It's not even if it's either President Trump is encouraged and bolstered strength and the Do what he must do or we wind up in a bloody fight. We all know that the fight's coming, but he has a chance to fix this very quickly with by by defying the snake

D. I agree. Let me ask you this. We'll do a final segment here in the poll watching next over. It sounds like he agreed. So Alex doesn't disagree at all. The Stuart laying out exactly what they want to and plan to do. They just didn't do it that time because time wasn't running out yet. Trump had lost, but there was still hope that there would be an easy solution to this. By January 6th, the inauguration was right around the corner, and if the election got certified that day, there was no other procedural way to stop Biden from taking office. And why is that important to Stuart?

Because he's a man entirely obsessed with the idea of being in charge of his own state-sanctioned military. He's been very consistent about this for the last decade and his appearances on Alex's show. Yeah. The belief that he was building a militia in the Oathkeepers and that they should be the state's muscle. It wasn't relevant during the Obama years, so his focus was mostly on agitation and using civil unrest incidents to grow his ranks. But when Trump got in, he was obsessed with the idea that Trump would call up the oath keepers as the real militia of the United States

and he would be in charge of it. Here's a small selection of times he talked about that on Info Wars. President can call off the National Guard and call us up as the militia and when it goes to press the insurrection. So he could call forth the militia which include the National Guard and all of us

as the militia to suppress the insurrection. He can call us up as the militia of the United States and the Federal Service right now and to place on the border, even if the Governor of California doesn't want you to go. The President could call us up as the unorganized militia under Federal Statute right now, because the organized militia is a National Guard and then under Federal Statute, the unorganized and the United States, the United States, and the United States, the United States, and the United States, the United States, and the United States, the United States, and the United States, the United States, and the United States, the United States, and the United States, the United States,

and the United States, the United States, and the United States, the United States, and the United States, the United States, and the United States, the United States, and the United States, the United States, and the United States, the United States, and the United up as the militia. All of us veterans, I was a pear trip in the army. A lot of us are prior service would be happy to go down there. So this isn't an exhaustive retelling of the time sees talked about this.

Those aren't not from the same day or even the same year. Nope. Stuart understood fully well that the opportunity for him to achieve his dreams and be a big boy in charge of a real army was slipping through his fingers. If Biden got into office, there was no chance of him getting made into the real militia of the United States without an all-out civil war, so really January 6 was the ultimate last inflection point for him. It's very easy to understand his actions if you understand

that he's been talking about what he wants for over a decade on Alex's show, and this was the last chance to get it. And Alex never disagreed with Stewart. He was right there with him, spouting pseudo history and nonsense about his flawed understanding of the Constitution to rationalize Stewart's bloodlust and his desire for power. But Alex is realized by now that he's not dealing with totally unprepared people. He knows that if Bed and Destiny are bringing up things that Stewart Road said, they probably know what they're talking about. So it's probably strategically better to acknowledge something, distance yourself from it,

and then minimize it as a locker room talk. Yeah. That's pure diversion, but Alex knows it sounds like Stewart, so he probably should just bite the bullet on this. Yeah. It's cowardly, but you know, whatever. If I think this is the fun thing is that you could really claim Stewart said just about everything.

Yeah, and Alex would be like, you know what he probably did. Let's face it. Yeah. I mean, look, hey, that's extreme, but... Yeah, it sounds like him. Yeah. And I love having him on the show and I raised a bunch of money for him and the Oathkeepers wouldn't exist without their exposure early days on InfoWords.

I basically facilitated the creation of this group. Sure. But yeah, man, that guy was fucked up. Yeah. Yeah, I do find it interesting how it seems impossible for people to take a lot of these people, or a lot of people at their word whenever they go like, I want something repeatedly. And then they try and get it. People are like, why could they possibly have done this?

You know? I think a lot of people just never listened in for wars. Oh, that's fair. So, bed has an interesting point here, and that is that they keep going back to this thing about Ray absending a text message. Yes. But what about all the proud boys and oath keeper text message? Yeah, I've never seen any of this.

Ah. If you put that together with... No, I get there with some rhetoric. It was dangerous. So, I mean, if you put that together with, no, I get there was some rhetoric. It was dangerous. So I mean, if you put that together with the planning, he, him and Biggs were planning on two different ends, one oath, keepers, one, they planned it. Well, if you look at the telegram, but under cover reported,

undercover agent recorded the conversation in the garage, but have you looked at the telegram messages where they're basically constructing people where to go and, and where they're at. And and and that saying, hey, we storm the Capitol. We took the Capitol. There's no doubt there was larping without Trump's directives of some people talking about that. All right. We're going to wait. Why don't we trust their messages? But we do trust Ray Epps bragging to his nephew that he orchestrated point.

No, I don't know why he's six. We're talking about it. We're going to go. Yeah. Yeah. Let's let's like then, Glenn finished this one off, because then I have another question for you guys. So that question from Destiny, and it was started by Bed, is a headshot. Yeah. Alex is accidentally acknowledged that the messages of Joe Biggs and the other proud boys sent,

saying stuff like, make no mistake, we did this. He's acknowledged those are real and Destiny asks him, why Alex cares so much about Epsom's message, but not that one. Alex slipped up because he's very busy defending Trump, so he lost sight of the larger points that are being discussed. And you also might notice that even though destiny

just hit that finishing maneuver on Alex, it really doesn't matter. Alex just hand waves and then pretends that he's the only person here being honest and that the other side isn't. This is honesty inside of fake constructed reality that Alex lives in, which is to say, that the only thing

that is honest is what's working for me right now. Yeah, we're gonna have to go to Glenn. Sorry, I gotta have to interrupt you. What's it good? You see Ian throwing it to Glenn when Alex is in a bad place. Like, I want to make it very clear. I don't think that it's a pre-coordinate thing or that like, necessarily the person is in is here being like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

but it does happen. It's happening a bit. And it could just be Ian's instincts, honestly. But it's notable. It is what's important is not why it's what he's doing. You know, whether or not it's because he has the razor instincts or because there's somebody in his ear telling him to do something. What matters is he's helping.

Yeah. Yeah, there's structural support for Alex. And directed and on purpose. It could be just directed by Ian's instincts. Sure. And understanding of who's paying for the debate. Wow, that's definitely true. So Glenn comes in and condescend some more.

Glenn finished this one off because then I have another question for you guys. Yeah, the whole thing, like what's going to them. I honestly, it's like listening. I don't mean to be insulting. I'm just saying this, you know, it's what it sounds like. Like seventh graders who learn civics class and have this understanding of how the US government works. Like, oh, the FBI investigate and they discover crimes and then they go to the court. Good. You should be grateful. You're very far away from your own court. Make rulings and everything that has happened in January 6th, and you can even look at the

people they picked and choose to expand the law, the people who ended up getting prosecuted on felony counts, even though they were nonviolent, had these incredibly novel interpretations of law that were used against the deterred nonviolent demonstration and nonviolent political protest into felony by taking this post N-ROM law and giving it a stretch meaning that it never had before and the reason so many of them plead guilty is because they know that if they go into court, they're going to have rulings against them because a lot of these judges, especially in Washington, are not only Democratic party judges, but the entire system is furious to watch people go and

put their feet up on Nancy Pelosi's back. She's got a new system. The entire system decided it has to be punished for overthrowing the law. Provide. So it's one thing to be wary and critical of the FBI and any apparatus of the government. But it's another to act like this. The condescending attitude, the fast talking and the actual

words he's saying are just a awful combination. The FBI committing some awful acts in the past is not evidence that everything they do is part of an evil plot and that no one is actually investigating real crimes. The courts getting some cases wrong and there being some cases of corruption is not proof that the courts are all part of an evil plot. Taking this kind of a blanket knee-jerk opposition is just as idiotic as saying as the FBI is always right or that the courts are always perfect arbiters of the law.

Once childishly naive and the others childishly cynical. You notice there that Glenn doesn't point out like which specific case he's talking about, which is weird. If you pay attention to what he's saying, he's not even really finishing sentences as he goes along. But he's talking about everything that happened in January 6th.

He's already wrong there. It doesn't finish his thoughts so we don't know exactly where that plane would have crashed. Then he says that people were picked and choose to have the law expanded to charge them. It doesn't specify who these people are or what law that is. People. But then some law. It's about people who are charged with felonies who are non-violent. Felonies non-violent people see. Do you think that all felonies have to be violent? That's strange. That means some felonies have to be violent. It isn't stealing of violence. So all of this comes into focus when he mentions the post-Enron law aspect of

this. He's talking about the Sarabinds oxley act of 2002, which is passed after the Enron scandal. This had to do with obstruction of an official proceeding and what Glenn is saying has some point to it, but he's way off track. First of all, according to NPR's tracker of J6 related arrests, 245 out of the 100 or 1241 people have been charged with obstruction of an official proceeding. Many of these people are the proud boys and oath-keepers who did actively conspire to stop the certification of the votes, and many of the others are folks who acted particularly egregiously during the riot. Like Robert Turner, who we mentioned on the last episode, the guy who hit three officers in the head with fire extinguisher Yeah, and none not all of them were that extreme or even violent

But often those were the people who made contact with authorities, you know They're like Isaac Thomas is another person who got charged with this you swung a flag pull it officers and threw a gatorade bottle Yeah, that's too many not as egregious necessarily as throwing a fire extinguisher sure But yeah, that'll get many. Not as egregious necessarily as throwing a fire extinguisher. Sure. But, yeah, that'll get you obstruction of the proceeding. It'll do it. So, I would be highly concerned and maybe even agree with Glenn if everyone was being charged with this count, then I might come around to thinking that maybe this is an attempt

to turn political activism into a felony, but I'm not convinced. People have discussed the strategy of using this statute in this way as the government trying to be creative about how they prosecute what is one of the most extreme events in recent history. It's definitely a special circumstance, so the idea that they would consider an unconventional count to charge people with that isn't insane as long as the charge is actually appropriate. Some people have said that the law doesn't apply to something like trying to stop the certification of election and And that question is pretty much saddled. It does.

However, there is a bigger question that does merit some examination, which is what is the Mendoza line with this thing? Sure. This is a felony. So what's the dividing line where someone's actions become a felony in service of a constructing and official proceeding? Because there would obviously be a version of this that

isn't a felony. There has to be a line. Right. It's a pretty important question. It's pretty much everyone who was there on the sixth, whether they went into the capital or not, was there with the aim of obstructing and official proceeding. But obviously they all didn't do it in a way that rises to the level of a felony. That lack of clarity about the dividing line could end up being a problem in some prosecutions, but that's a matter that's going to be played out as, you know, someone may appeal,

over time we'll get a better picture. But even acknowledging this, what Glenn is saying is nonsense. If they were charging everyone with this, then yeah, his point's kinda makes sense. But maybe a couple people got this charge where it's questionable and maybe those charges will be overturned.

But in a lot of these cases, it seems appropriate. What I find fascinating about it is that Glenn has just put forth an incredible argument for why they attempted to overthrow the government. That does seem like, but that's what destiny was, you know, his, that one of those boxes of the arguments they're going to make is like, you don't realize it, but what you're arguing for is they should be a surracting. You should be, you're saying that these people know in advance they cannot get a fair trial in a country.

And then you, so, right, you're arguing in favor of a successful overthrow of the government in order to justify a failed one. But you don't want to own that position. Exactly. So there's all kinds of other fake nuance being thrown in. Yep. So Glent condescends a little more in this next show.

God damn it. I want to hit him. And then things just break down. I do understand that if you believe in this like story of American propaganda that the FBI is these upstanding, law enforcement people and they don't do that. And then the courts go and make rulings. Then you're going to end up with this image of what the three of them have, which is this idea that this was one of the worst attacks in American history, the courts have

ruled everything the government did in this case is consistent with their longstanding view before January 6th, that these groups, our criminal groups, they need to be criminalized, Trump's movement is the threat to the United States and the entire part of January 6th was designed to define them as an insurrection and movements and that they could criminalize them, which is exactly what they're doing. 800, 800, 800, 900. I want to respond to Glenmielfit. I want to add the money for a criminal trial.

890 convictions are guilty, please. Two acquittals. Two. 892, two. How many had guns? There's a bio-ins. There's a bunch of criminal rights. 892 to 2. So is that is that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that that You understand what usually happens in the United States with nonviolent protesters or even with violent protesters is they don't get charged with anything. A tiny percentage of people who use violence throughout all of the Black Lives Matter

protests ended up in jail because the ideology in which they were protesting was one that was considered positive and friendly by the American authority. They were on the side of Black Lives Matter. Always treat Black people too well. The Trump movement and the right wing extremists as the government calls them are considered enemies of the state and that was what

higher on firstment mechanism. If you want to actually make these. Let me just back up one right. I'll show up. I'll take a five minute break.

Okay. All right. Hey, it's so great how he promises to leave in order to talk more. I love it. Amazing. I have zero idea how someone could enjoy listening to Glenn and I listen to Alex all the time. So that's saying something That's brilliant. I has the most undeservedly condescending tone that I've heard and been quite a while.

There's no virtue or wisdom in pretending everything is corrupt because some things are You don't get to pat yourself on the back and declare yourself the king of nuance for that You can't go around calling everyone else junior high students when they have big jaded high school or energy Glenn thinks the government decided that the groups like the oath keepers and proud boys were criminal groups before January 6th Then I guess he believes them he believes they used agents Provocator to start a riot at the capital to smear the oath keepers and proud boys who are actively planning to start a riot at the capital in order to criminalize Trump followers. This isn't a person who has a rational and measured criticism of the government and the

misdealings they've committed in the past. This is a far more like an info wars host than I think Glenn wants people to think he is. I mean, the first problem is that the oath keepers and proud boys are absolutely groups that tend towards crime, particularly street violence, long before January 6th. If Glenn wants to try to deny that, then he's just not dealing with reality. I would be curious what Glenn thinks about the United Right rally. Like that was probably the government trying to make Trump's borders look bad too.

I guess. Also, I don't know in what world Glenn thinks 170 convictions out of 890 being violence-related constitutes a tiny number or a small percentage. That's a small percentage. That's a small percentage. That's like almost 20%. So he seems to just be kind of dishonest and ideologically driven to think that small.

One out of every five, that means four out of five doctors agree it's not violence. I'm certain that under 20% of FBI arrests involve entrapment, but if that were the number, would Glenn say that's a tiny number or small percentage? I think not. Yeah, then Glenn launches into another pretty dumb conspiracy Which is that people involved in BLM related protests weren't charged for crimes because they were supporting a cause that the man liked Whereas Trump and his supporters were a threat to the man. So they were charged It's impossible to make this point and you see them try, but this is apples and oranges

And on top of that Glenn is just adding his imagined motivation for prosecutors charging Trump fans. That's not based on anything other than his feelings, namely that he likes Trump and he doesn't like BLM. Yeah. The glaring difference is there that this was a riot that took place inside and around the capital of the United States while the certification of an election was happening with the goal of stopping that certification and resisting the peaceful transfer power.

I guarantee if Black Lives Matter had done the same thing, there would be as many arrests, maybe more, maybe a few suspects getting killed while being taken into custody. Sure. And actually, Glemser's wrong. Black Lives Matter protests ended up being a situation where police fired tear gas. It protesters constantly. Yeah. A CNN analysis from 2021 found that, quote,

DC police arrested more than five times as many people at the height of the Black Lives Matter protests last summer than they did during the day of the insurrection at the Capitol. Business insider did a breakdown of protest-related arrests and found that there were 69 arrests on January 6th at the Capitol. Understandably, a lot have happened since,

but that's a shockingly low number. The protest that Alex is talking about with the Democrats bombing the Capitol was the protests on June 1st, 2020, and 194 people were arrested that day. No one even stormed the Capitol and no one was trying to disrupt the certification of an election.

Yet, over 125 more people were arrested at that Black Lives Matter protest then on January 6th. The way of the protest and Minneapolis on May 26th, right after George Floyd was killed, where the police arrested 570 people for protest-related crimes. That's almost half of the entire number of people who have been charged since January 6th. And again, no one was trying to overturn an election. The myth is-

What they were trying to do was not be murdered by cops. Do you remember the goal was to not be murdered by cops? Right. And they were arrested more than the people who were like, let's overthrow the country. Mm, yeah. Just throwing that up. The myth is that no one was ever charged for anything

during these protests because they aren't really people that folks like Alex and Glenn care about. They don't count as people. You can say it stems from a hatred of the left or woke politics or the very obvious answer of racism, but whatever the case, you could show them tons of cases of people arrested at those protests. They insist no one was arrested at and it wouldn't pierce the narrative for them. That's what this all comes down to and what Glenn is articulating is the narrative. Trump is a threat to the corrupt and evil US system. So supporters are treated unfairly by the corrupt and evil US system. It's just a grievement porn. Also, isn't Glenn's

supposed to be a big anti surveillance guy? Shouldn't he be concerned with the government abuse section 702 of FISA to investigate 133 Black Lives Matter protesters who are arrested in connection with protests. I think they wouldn't do that kind of thing, since the government's sympathetic to their cause. I'm sure that Glan is concerned with police brutality, so I can't understand why he's not up in arms, about how New York City had to pay out $13 million

to 1300 protesters in a class action lawsuit after they were kettled into areas they couldn't escape from and then beaten in pepper spray. I imagine the police did that to show their support, you know, because they supported the cause. Yeah, I want to say the studies on permanent damage from the amount of tear gas and shit that cops have hit protesters with. I'm sorry. The left with.

There's, I mean, it's just, it's just nonsense in search of deflection. It's a, it's a legitimate like, this is what I want the government to do. Hit these people. This is what I don't want the government to do. Exist in any fashion that's not hitting those people. Right. Yeah. So Alex, I think he's just bored by any semblance of a debate.

And so he just, that's fair though. That is a fair point. Yeah. I mean, look, I think that we can find some common agreement there, but he just decides he wants to do his show, I think. Good call. Barrow the any of them charge. They're plenty of them that were charged.

They're plenty for that were charged. I'm gonna say one thing, I'm gonna say one thing, I'm gonna take a break here. Yeah, we're actually all gonna be taking a short five, but I'm gonna go to the point. I'm gonna say this right now, ladies and gentlemen, we saw billions of dollars of stuff burn down. We saw all the killings.

And we never said all Democrats are involved in that. Yes, you did. That is a 100% thing you said. Everyone in DC was a terrorist. They're all bad. You can't vote for Trump. Man, you can really get the feeling. Alex just wants to do his show. He wants to interrupt to make the pronouncements that he always does and this interjection really doesn't make sense in the context of a debate.

But as a monologue, sure. This guy does sound like he could use some more iced tea though. Alex absolutely did say that all Democrats were involved in the violence and property destruction that stemmed from the social justice related protests. 1 million percent. He thinks Kamala Harris personally bailed out violent criminals. So that should tell you how his radar is on a signing blame.

But he says it a lot to make him so feel better that he doesn't assign group blame for things. So he just repeats that self reassuring statement in order to accuse his opponents of assigning group blame in that speech that Biden made last night during a debate that's supposed to be about January 6th. We're supposed to be talking about January 6th. Is that what we're talking about?

Yeah. OK. So far off track. All right. So bad comes in with a hypothetical for Alex. Sure. And this is tough because his brain is not in a state where hypotheticals are the best strategy.

What if instead of the capital is a White House? And there's thousands of people at the White House fence and they pushed through the fence Do you think those people deserve more of a a criminal penalty than people that were Riding in I don't know L.A. No, I mean it turns out they were in the directives of farm power No, no, they were what? Wait, they killed a cop. It's the crime I came at. If a bunch of American when Trump was in the White House stormed the White House fence guns with with weapons and

I was actually mapping shot. No, no, no, no, no, no, no national guard to stop that? Millie said no. Trump didn't ask. I didn't ask for that. It's on record saying I'm writing a resign. That was that was not that wasn't January 6th. We see you said about the white. Yeah, but nobody. Nobody was. I'm going to use the

kid anybody cross police barricades into the White House. No, I saw was the police after a little bit of a fight, opened the doors and waved people in and a bunch of... They didn't waved people in. Oh my God, everybody, get the footage of the police. What is that? What is that? Out of 100,000 hours, there's hundreds.

There's no hundreds of clips of people waving people through the door. What I saw, people breaking the windows, climbing through broken windows, unlocking multiple doors and letting other people in. Once in, police were forced to basically de-escalate the situation and make sure that the Congress people were protected. At that point, they were out number 10-1, the Capitol police to the rioters. At that point, those videos where they're walking alongside people, they're funneling them into the water. I was there. I was there. You weren't in the

you weren't in the Capitol and and I give you credit. You when you turn around. I don't. The street journal said I was cowardly on top of a car, commanding people to invade. But thank God, Jack Paso big because I didn't have a Twitter then put the video out of me saying don't go in. I got through the middle of it. Man, I'm glad you did. And you made the right decision. You're there with 300,000 people, some million in town. And they don't even know what's happening from there being guided in a lot of those innocent

people that just walked to the Capitol have been sent to prison. Mm. So that was an interesting exchange, I think, because I don't think Alex and anyway followed with bed was saying no, no, no, no. The hypothetical didn't connect. Not even a little bit. No. But what I think is more fascinating is that bed was able to stand up to Alex's belligerence, which is nice to see. It was. You have Alex saying that police just waved people in and bed is able to explain the context of that video. Alex isn't used to being cold on something like this. So he entirely crumbles and then bed. I think accidentally wins Alex over with flattery by saying it was good of him

to not go into the Capitol. I know. it's such a stark turnaround from them arguing to Alex Sounding like a guy having a friendly conversation at the bar at the end of that clip Oh, he said nice. I think the hinge point was mild flattery. He's so stupid. I think that's what happened I here's what I don't understand. How is there next thing not going to be like Alex you told people not to go. Why? There is a reason. What was that reason?

Because the feds were trying to send people out by having them go in. And... Oh, and didn't do anything. Did you see Biden speech last night? So Ian tries to set things in order and has a question. Okay. But I want to ask you guys, talking about these people in prison, these prison sentences. So we're going to, I want to talk to you briefly about if you think these prison sentences

of some of these people are getting are justified or not. And then we're going to be taking questions from the audience from zero-hedge premium. So if you haven't signed up at zero-hedge.com, sign up for the premium service and you may be able to get a question before we wrap. So the questions that Ian has with this debate are pretty bad Yeah, the answers that these people are gonna have are very obvious before they say anything It's just gonna turn into that old daily show sketch even Stephen Yes, no Yes, no, I'm interested to see what questions come in from zero-head premium subscribers

That'll definitely be a diverse and representative cross-section of people from all walks of life and political backgrounds. Great. Wow. How many questions do you think they get to? Zero. Higher. Two. Yes. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha That's not about right. Is that the number of people who just signed up for Zero-Hedge Premium? The feeling is they would have got to more.

If things were different in the room. Gotcha. Ian does seem a little annoyed that they didn't get to more questions, but what are you gonna do? What are you gonna do? So anyway, Ian asks this question about the prison sentences. He starts off by going to Darren.

Yeah. What do you guys think? Let me start with you, Darren, because I haven't heard from you. By the way, I don't want to wrap. I mean, let's say take a break. A lot of people are sitting in now. I'll keep having this debate all day long.

Yeah, we might keep going. But Darren, what do you think about the prison sentences in general that these people have been getting? I think they're completely overblown, and they're, you know, consistent with what we're talking about. This amplification of January six into this false domestic Terrorist act. I don't I mean it was a big it was a big deal January six, but I like to Ian's dismissiveness of Alex there. Yeah, we may keep going. Yep. That's all

I mean, that's all I have to say. I felt like Ian might need a compliment and I enjoyed that all right So Darren tries to answer this question, which he has already interrupted by saying we can go longer. Yep. And then Alex interrupts Darren again. Great. Even the people who committed illegal acts are in effect political prisoners because of the political context of these prosecutions, which are vastly overblown and could only make sense within this political context of the weaponization not only the national security state, but unfortunately now also the legal apparatus. And let's go to the line with Glenn again and then all you guys, but I just want to say something.

This is important folks. In June of 2021 Biden put out a national security memorandum, which you just mentioned, saying, right way, extremism is a number one threat. Then he defined that as white supremacism and then said, questioning open borders, questioning elections, questioning lockdowns, questioning four shots. That's in the report. I've shown hundreds of times on air,

literally declaring the people enemy. Then he gives a speech with this red background with marines. I thought I was watching Annalfe Hitler. And then yesterday he gives a speech with his red background with Marines. I thought I was watching Anolf Hitler, and then yesterday he gives a speech that's saying, they're taking over, they're a danger, we're at war all off a riot at the Capitol. It bests its a riot, and obviously provocateur it. So this is a branding of 80 million voters plus

as a political enemy. This is extremely totalitarianarian, extremely dangerous. And and I was there. I know you're in a crowd of hundreds of thousands that you're up tear gas is coming now. You can't even see what's happening at the Capitol. You're saying, don't go in there. We've got a stage. I go there.

There's a stage no one there. I mean, we were set up and I was set up. And thank God that I waited 30, 40 minutes. I don't know what to do. I was like, this is weird. How do I lead a crowd that's already left? I was set up and thank God that I waited 30, 40 minutes. I didn't know what to do. I was like, this is weird. How do I lead a crowd that's already left? I was there. And so all I'm saying is this is not the basis to indict populist Americans and say they're terrorists. And if our the US government spent the equivalent of $10 trillion, you know, they spent a trillion in Afghanistan of real current numbers. But the estimates now are $10 trillion in current dollars in Vietnam and the Vietnamese wouldn't give up.

So Swalasville says we'll use F-16s, we'll just kill Americans and take your guns. F-16s don't take guns, folks. I don't want a civil war. I don't want violence. But the entire deep state couldn't defy everyone listening to this. What is everyone doing? While they stop this, stop it. Somebody tackle him. It needs to stop. I don't want to war with Democrats. I don't want civil war. I don't have some dream of this, but this

is the election strategy of Joe Biden is Civil War. Glenn, did you want to say something? When I listen to Alex in a context like this, all I can think of is Mark Banks and then asking him, do you know what question you're answering? Yeah. And then Alex looking back at him like a fish. Yeah. Alex completely forgets in the middle that the topic is,

are the jail sentences appropriate? Because you remember that it's fun to fantasize about how well his buddies would do in a civil war. It is just nonsense. It's way more fun. The thing that Alex is doing is nothing new. Apparently Biden put out a memorandum that said white supremacy is the number one threat in terms of domestic terrorism.

But guess what? That happened in 2004, too, in 2005, and 2006, 2007, and what? On and on. Oh no. This narrative constantly gets replayed on Alex's show anytime a public leader gives voice to concerns about how white supremacist and white nationalist groups pose a threat to public safety. This narrative continues to get reused because Alex's content is driven by intense feelings of white victimhood, which is validated by being constantly told that the government just declared

war on you because you're white. In June 2021, Biden released his national strategy for countering domestic terrorism, which listed a threat that emerges, quote, from racially or ethnically motivated violent extremists, whose racial, ethnic or religious hatred leads them towards violence, as well as those whom they encourage to take violent action. This wasn't just white supremacist groups, it includes all groups that could fall under that umbrella, but Alex, you know, he hangs out mostly with white supremacist types, so his view is a little narrowed by that. Yep. It didn't say the people who questioned elections or didn't like vaccines were terrorists.

It said, quote, newer socio-political developments, such as narratives of fraud in the recent general election, the emboldening impact of the violent breach of the US Capitol, conditions related to the COVID-19 pandemic and conspiracy theories promoting violence will almost certainly spur some domestic violent extremists to try to engage in violence this year. This isn't saying that if you're one of the people who questions elections or doesn't like vaccines, you're a terrorist, it means that the socio-political climate created

by these groups creates heightened concerns about domestic extremism. Conspiracy-minded communities are often good recruitment pools for extremists. Think about how many, like, InfoWars listeners probably became Oathkeepers because of how often Stuart Rhodes was on. Yeah. Being an InfoWars listener doesn't make you an Oathkeeper, but it makes you more likely to have joined. In turn, being an Oathkeeper doesn't make you a domestic violent extremist, but we've seen that it's a possible path towards it.

Further, conspiracy shit has the tendency to give cover to domestic violent extremists. January 6th is a perfect illustration of that. The giant crowd that was there obscured the violent extremists that were contained within, like the Oathkeepers and the Proud Boys. This is the exact same shell game Alex has been playing his entire career. Go back to 2009 and see the same game with the Myak report. It just gets played over and over and over again because it works yeah and I'm I'm I tire I tire of it yeah it is it is weird that we've all just

continued to listen to it you know and it's but it is it's just like fucking it's I mean it's not just like but it makes me think of the way people reacted to Alex just saying all that and say nonsense, which is like, Okay, then, fun! You talk now! The only difference is that in this room, it's partially because Alex holds so much sway. Right. Like, it's in his studio and he's friends with the people paying for it. Sure.

So, like, he's obviously, and he's drunk. I mean, the reasons that we don't deal with white nationalist terror is also because white nationalists still hold too much sway in this country. Yeah, I mean, there may be some overlaps there. Yeah. So bad, uh, boars people with facts here. Boo. And, uh, you could just hear Alex like dreaming of iced tea. Yeah. Bigs, steward rows and, uhiketario, they were sentenced to some of the harshest sentences out of all the January sixers. Who was a judge? It was a Trump appointed judge Timothy Kelly. Now, if you look at the worst convictions, the ones that received the largest sentences, 80% of them were actually under the sentencing guidelines.

80% these people didn't receive sentences that were any more harsh than anybody else in other crimes. And these were people sentenced from a Trump judge, a Trump appointed judge. So you're all saying that, that all the courts are rigged against Conservatives or or Trump supporters, but these are Trump judges many of these were Trump judges that actually Charges not charge these people but sent and sees people I Think that if we want to talk about knowing history and understanding history and contextualizing history I think if we want to run with that argument, then do we? To do real journalists work while we do it.

It's not enough to say the FBI or the CIA has done this 10, 20 years ago, and then blindly assert it every single time it happens to fit whatever political narrative you want to tell. If you want to tell a story, a person telling the story needs to find evidence to support it. Sure, if you want to say the FBI or the CIA or any other domestic agency has been involved in spying on Americans are doing bad things, that's fine. We all know that it's happened. That doesn't mean that you don't have to find evidence in the future of it happening. And so far, there was no evidence of it happening on January 6. As many times you want to throw

around the follow politics before 2016 or whatever, well, we're in 2024 right now, find some information from today or find some information from January 6 to today. It's not enough to just keep appealing to the past, but then like that's going to do your homework for you and somehow you can make all of these accusations about having any real evidence. There's a pregnant silence between beds, point and destiny, and I think that's because what bedset kind of ruins all their arguments about the politically motivated prosecution argument. It does. And it involves, you know, people on the dare and Alex Glendside are insisting there's a conspiracy of all these judges like, wait, charge many of the founders and eyed lines.

How does this work? So it seems like it's not a politically motivated witch hunt. But then I got a tip, the cap to destiny for that rebuttal, it really does cut to the core of Glend's entire premise with the condescension about how the FBI has done bad stuff in the past so you can just assume that they did bad stuff this time. It's a frustrating thing, because this is a solid rebuttal that would be difficult to deal with, but because of how the debate has been so poorly moderated

and full of Alex's substance-fueled distractions, there's no way that this was able to come up in a coherent way where it was a counterpoint to something directly that Glenn had said that Glenn could then respond to. As it stands, it just feels like a good point in the ether. But Destiny goes on because I don't know why, but apparently people are being allowed to tell.

Yeah, what is happening right now? Oh, Alex has gone again. Oh, oh, no. Sorry, I need to get a novel uses of charges or people don't do charges like this. As we said over here, most of the sentences have been within sentence and guidelines. A lot of these have been done with a Trump appointed judge.

The idea that these charges are novel that people don't face prosecution like this, there's some element of truth to that, but this is also a novel situation. We have never had a president in the United States try to resist the peaceful transfer of power like this. This has just never happened before. And you can keep screaming about Hillary Clinton

and you can keep screaming about BLM all you want to talk about the blown up fire stations and the congressional halls. The reality is that none of those situations were like this one. If you want to keep appealing to those and saying those people should have been charged with crimes, we agree they should have been charged with crimes. But to even do the what aboutism, you have to already concede that you are wrong on all of the merits about the current people you're talking about. Every single time we talk about Donald Trump, you go, well, what about when Hillary Clinton or Biden did it? Okay, then you admit that Trump did? Because if you want to admit that Trump is guilty of every single time we talk about Donald Trump, you go, well, what about when Hillary Clinton or Biden did it? Oh, okay, then you admit that Trump did, because if you want to admit that Trump is guilty

of every single thing that we've been accusing him of, which is what you're doing when you go, what about the other guy? Because it seems like you're just trying to appeal to hypocrisy at that point rather than fact of the matter, then do that. Say, yeah, Trump did try to cite an insurrection. Yeah, Trump did fail.

Yeah, it was a riot. I don't know why you keep saying that. Well, let me ask you this. No, don't ask me this. Let me finish my one point one time without being interrupted by you I can't worry back because you heard me talk you had to interrupt you came running back You're so excited for it. Okay?

I understand this rhetoric of mostly peaceful riot. Yeah, it was mostly peaceful a lot of riots that have right aspects Do have a lot of peaceful people there and a 10,000 That's not always 10,000 people writing it might just be 100 people writing or a thousand people writing The reality was there was one event on January 6th of the Capitol building. That event was a riot. Okay. So let me just add some context here. What they had trials in Michigan and one of them was a mistrial and they let most of them off the another. They found a good context. It came out in court that the feds went and found a bunch of basically homeless

pot heads and just like Glenn was saying the Newark Times article, they were more accurate, 97% of Islamic plots were hatched by the FBI, including the first World Trade Center bombing, and they admit all that, and I've interviewed the people involved in the Mods of the Long Island. Are we all just gonna be FBI, first World Trade Center bombing?

We're all just gonna let that one go. It is not addressed. We're gonna be FBI, and set these people up, and that came out of the mainstream news. So we know that this isn't you guys were saying we don't want to go back to 10 years ago. You know, I've said there for six, seven minutes, you know, they're smoking a cigarette. I went back. You're just going 40 years ago.

I think censored. You're like, there's no example recently of them doing something corrupt or bad. I've ever said that. It's a great. You should find out. You should find out. You should find out. I said, find out. Yes, it's evidence. Ever said that. It's a great find out. It's a fine. I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, I said, we are, this is already far too long. Yeah. In terms of FBI and trapping the vast majority of their terrorism cases after 9.11, I don't think there's much doubt about that being a trend.

I found an interesting article from 2015 published in the Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology titled, Estimating the Prevalence of Entrapment in Post 9.11 Terrorism Cases. The researchers reviewed 580 terrorism related cases and found that about 9% of them pose real independent terrorist threats without any entrapment indicators, which is higher than the figure that Alex and his folks would cite. To be clear, these indicators do not definitively prove entrapment just that there's a concern.

The indicators range from some kind of indefinite things like the suspect having no previous terrorism history or to one of them is the suspect is young. It ranges from those kinds of things to more concrete things like an informant coming up with the plot or an informant paying the suspect. Right. The road is somewhat narrow in terms of a case not having one indicator,

but still 91% having at least one is a troubling stat. Yeah, that's not good. However, the research led them to the conclusion that not all types of terrorism have the same level of indications of entrapment. For instance, Jihadi-related terrorism averaged 6.3 indicators of entrapment, whereas right-wing terrorists indicated

they had average of 2.8. For comparison, left-wing terrorists plots averaged 10.2. In their research, they found far more indications of government entrapment directed towards Muslims For comparison, left-wing terrorists plot average 10.2. In their research, they found far more indications of government entrapment directed towards Muslims and the left-wing and comparatively very little toward right-wing people. PASS!

We really gotta make those fucking left-wingers fight people and these assholes will just do it for anybody. It's almost like we like them more for the very reasons that we are prosecuting them. Matt. Alex brings up the Whitmer kidnabbing plot, and I'll be honest, that one's messy, but also Alex is wrong. There were informants, and as you've even pointed out, one of them was the second and command of the group, and there are entrapment indicators all around.

That being said, I'm still not convinced that the plot itself wasn't real. Sure. It's entirely possible for the FBI to have acted inappropriately, and for it to still Yeah, that being said, I'm still not convinced that the plot itself wasn't real sure sure It's entirely possible for the FBI to have acted inappropriately and for it to still be a real plot which like I said is messy Yeah, yeah, no, it's it's like listen that guy and oh you I believe that guy murdered that guy totally but the cops also did such a bad job investigating and all that stuff that I also think the trial is a mistrial, et cetera, these are both true things, right?

Those dudes could have tried to kidnap her. Also, you can't be second in command. You can't, you just can't. Yeah, yeah, there are many, many questions. questions But I still from the things that I've read I'm not totally convinced that it's an inorganic thing It's just it is their fault that they're not getting it easily You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but more to the point here Alex is bringing that case up because he's Misrepresenting what Destiny said earlier. Destiny said you need you point to all of these times the FBI did wrong to prove that

they did wrong this time, but we're lacking his evidence involving this time. Yeah, Alex is using the Michigan case because his misrepresentation was to pretend Destiny was saying that these examples that they all gave weren't recent enough. Alex does provide the connective tissue that's needed here though, he says the same team that did the Whitmer set up did January 6th. I guess settles it. Yeah. I have no idea what that even means in terms of the real world, but I do think that if Alex knows that the same team of set up artists who did the Whitmer plot did January 6th,

why did we spend so long on Ray Epps? What the fuck? I would even go so far as to say, um, then they had a first try and fucked up. Somehow you think they did worse on the second go round? Okay. Okay. So the question of this entrapment stuff, it raises the spectre of, what about left wing terrorism? Let's see. How do you guys hear about left wing terrorists? How do you guys feel about that?

Yeah. How many of the BLM riots were instigated by FBI? What What? How many of the BLM riots were instigated by our own intelligence agencies? Well, they had agents in there. In fact, one of one of the guys Sullivan, one of the guys Jake Sullivan, he had a very complicated relationship and Tifa basically Exclusive him because of his relationship with the government and they thought he was a fan absolutely the feds in because of his relationship with the government. And they thought he was a fan. Absolutely the feds in full force. Why did they use that? Why?

Because of his relationship with the government. He got excluded because I was insane. Because he was screaming at people to do all sorts of violence of constantly. Nobody wanted it. No one was going to say that. I told you we're going to stage it. I told you it was going to happen.

Again, for Sullivan, there's no evidence of Sullivan communicating to the government. You talk more about it. Why is it that when BLM, BLM pros writers, I guess you could say, aren't arrested as much as you want. Like, you know, you say the January 6th or arrested at much higher rate than the writers. That's true. Okay. How come you don't say that much more property damage is a result of yellow. Why don't you accuse those who aren't

prosecuted for those riots of being federal agents? Well, in some cases they probably are, but at that scale, we don't care. We have more there. How do you know? If you want to go conspiracy theory, I mean, let's touch all the bases. But I mean, Michigan is on record.

Yeah, glad. Let's go to glad. So this is a bullshit. Alex believes that all of these protests on the left are run by Antifa and Soros have contracts with them to start Marshal Law. But now he doesn't seem so infatic about that. There were literal contracts. This is a strange shift in tone from the usual. These guys don't spend time trying to find the agents provocateur in the federal informants in cases of left-wing riding if you even allow the term, because they don't actually care about that issue.

No. They care about using the specter of informants and entrapment to excuse right-wing extremists. Darren brings up Jake Sullivan as an attempt of some supposed fed who was left-wing protests, but he wouldn't even know that guy if he wasn't an early attempt at escape goat for January 6th. Yeah. And his name is John. Also, let's not forget that Alex is one of his employees who was called on film, desperately trying to buy John's footage of Ashley Babet being shot minutes after it happened. That is what I recall January 6th. I do recall that. Yeah, the only reason that guy's name is even known is because he was the proto-ray-ups.

Yep. That, uh, man. It's, I find it so strange how both well-prepared Destiny and the Crashingsteins are, and how thoroughly unaware they are of what limitations they're under. It feels insane. Like y'all know, knew what to expect, somewhat coming in. And yet what I feel like you've never bothered to learn

was that they don't care about you. To the point where like- And they don't care about what the points you're making. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean, it is strange. Like it is, it is like, ugh. I, yeah, I don't know, I'm above. Also, I was like Jake Sullivan, the name rings about.

That's the CSMSNBC guy, right? No. Seeing none? No, no, it's well, that's Jake Tapper. The reason that I was thinking was because the main character in Avatar is Jake Sully. Ah, that, yeah.

Might have just watched the way of water or something. And, like you haven't seen that, so I didn't know that you still have that. I was gonna say you absolutely did not watch the way of water or something. And, well, actually I haven't seen that. So I didn't know that you still had that. Absolutely did not watch the way of water. Now, but I've heard of it. Yep. So, in this next clip, I'm going to skip ahead a little bit. Bed explains why some people were charged with felonies

in the context. Some people were worse. Yeah, and he gives a couple of categories. The people who got the felonies were either violent, they're taking part in a conspiracy, or they went into the house chamber. Those are the people who got it. The people who walked into the Capitol building.

That's not true. No, it's not. It absolutely is. I just gave you a specific example earlier. Sir, maybe one or two, give me the example. What did he do? Thomas called while he didn't.

He was not violent, and he did not go into the Capitol I lens point keep in mind that when you're saying that BLM wasn't treated the same because of the government and how they but you're not just alleging the federal government at that point. You're alleging every single state government and city municipalities that's in charge of arresting people are on the same page. In terms of unfair, the federal state, the federal charge of prosecuting everybody in every state. Tom is called well as part of the conspiracy. He was part of the conspiracy by the oath keepers. Like Len come in and then I want to hear about it. That's why he's the charge with a felony.

Go for it. When that black eyes matter happen, every single blue state mayor and every single blue state governor weighed in on the side of the writers because they were petrified of being demonized as being racist that they didn't support everything the black lives matter movement. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. Yeah. I remember that clearly. Yeah. So much support. So bed lays out three groups of people who would have gotten felonies and Darren replies that he has a counter example which is someone who's in one of those groups, namely a person who was involved in the seditious conspiracy. That's just in coherent.

Then Alex just starts yelling about oh and who didn't get charged with a felony and only got arrested because he didn't do his community service for previous events. And then this thing just falls to shreds. It's, but yeah, it definitely does bring up a good point though that if you're like saying that all these BLM arrests and stuff are somehow, if there's a conspiracy to not charge them, but do charge the federal people, you're saying that every local and state law,

and you know, that's kind's kind of against why you would overthrow the government. But it's also such a wildly extreme kind of conspiracy to suggest. Totally. And so it definitely tries to explain that that's not a rational thing to suggest. Sure. The entire establishment was on the side of the Black Lives Matter movement. The entire establishment hated the January 6th, depending on that's the reality of our government that you don't understand. Because you don't understand. You don't understand.

No, no, the reality of our government that you don't understand is that police orders don't come down from the federal government or even from the governors. Policing is done at the municipal level. The idea that the government is all this is the animal. The BLM rights are not all federally prosecuted these are state cries are having within states Happening within states the idea that the governor themselves The governor's are Dictating the governors themselves are

Swinders the policing policies to all of these different departments Where's the evidence of any of that? The women's law message one. He's one member and them one thing saying John Arunprosters don't put them not a single shred of everything. Right. Right. So why isn't that weird? Not the most you guys have.

I don't know if it's a police state. I got arrested by George W. Bush. Why are we getting something? We're forgetting one thing. And that is that you can commit a crime. You can commit a felony. And it doesn't have to be violent. It's good point.

What? Oh my god. You can commit a felony and it doesn't have to be violent. That's a good point. What? Oh my gosh. Alex is on one. Interaction isn't necessarily going to be productive at this point. I do think, honestly, as he's in this point, I don't think he can even keep his thoughts straight. And that's why he has to keep saying since when does it left because he needs to remember

What is next thought is supposed to be it's partially to yell over destiny, but also to be like if he doesn't Continue repeating that yeah, he will forget what he was going to say then get distracted and say something completely different exactly Yes, so by an electric how that? How is that going over your head? Glendale? I'm asking you this and everybody, please answer my question. Is this as bad as Pearl Harbor? Or is this as bad as 9 11? And all I'm telling you, let's do it is is round table? Who's going to go Biden announcement? Qualifying. Currently, currently, the number one threat is

the Trump supporters and Trump must be taken off the ballot. You can punt to the Supreme Court, but they're literally trying to preclude Americans for voting for who they want. That's the election theft and our face. Why do we have to keep going back to that? That's the third time that question was asked in unanswered. Yeah, I want to take off the ballot. I want to talk about Thomas. Oh boy. Yeah. So Alex, I mean, I just don't think that he's thinking very well. He's clinging to these talking points pretty hard that he's he's focused on Biden speech from last night and the big gotcha of his January six as big as Pearl Harbor.

He seems like he's patting himself on the back for like getting that in our face. Yeah. Yeah. It just landed that so much. Yeah. So you can hear there at the end. Ian is trying to get things back to you. This Thomas Caldwell, because that was somebody who Darren Beanie had brought up as someone who wasn't in the Capitol. Right. It got charged with

the felony. And what do you know? He doesn't want to get into the weeds. It's weird. It's like Thomas Caldwell and Darren, maybe you can answer this. Who is he? What did he do exactly and what was he charged with? This is is just, I mean, you can only get into that so extensively. I was just saying, here is somebody who is not violent, who did not go into the capital, who is charged with obstruction of inefficiencies. No, it's a vicious conspiracy. Well, there was later a super-sue. Wow.

And I was just felony he was charged with. So it's a felony. But tire campaign is January 6, not inflation, not war with Russia, not open borders, I mean, give me a break. Give me a million plus people there of the same size. He fights with the cops and you act like it's the biggest thing since it's a pretty big thing. When a president tries to overturn a legitimate election, that's a really big day.

Investigation. You had all your investigations, You lost every single one. When you lose in court, you go to the next day. We don't have to do it. You keep going. Remember, remember in 2016, when all the conservatives said, well, you know what, if we would have lost the election, you know what we did on the next day, we would have went to work.

Well, here you are. Four years later, still crying about the outcome of the election. So if Biden's going to win by landslide, why are the Democrats not willing to ballot? I put the card to Did the Supreme Court decide? Can I just say what my dream is? My dream is that Ed and Brian and Destiny have to actually live through a real coup

so that they can not have a coup. Can I say what my dream is? Like legally? No. So sorry. That clip right there is a great spiritual encapsulation of this entire debate. You have Darren not wanting to get into details

about something he brought up but thought no one else would know about. You have Darren not wanting to get into the details about something he brought up but thought no one else would know about. You have Alex yelling nonsense, acting like he's on his own show instead of a debate. You have Destiny trying to actually make a point amidst the nonsense, and you have Glenn being a contescending dipshit. You also have Ben sprinkled in there a little bit,

doing fine. He's doing his best. Yeah, so that bit that hard to do. This is it. Yeah. This is what the debate is in a one minute, 10 second chunk. It really is, yeah.

It's almost in its way beautiful and fleeting. Yes. Well, it's the platonic ideal of wasted time. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, if this, that's as good as it's gonna get. And we got it in a short bit. Yeah, which is why I'm going to end up skipping a little bit But before I skip anything Alex once again promises he's about to leave that's that's right Let me ask this one question to Glenn. Oh, you all to answer this human me I agree

Because Glenn is a really great writer. I really respect him and fallen for decades. Can everyone describe a coup to me? Because usually it's helicopters, taking over media, killing the opposition, groups. And then you're claiming women with American flags and being waved in by police as a coup. It's so so defined to me all of you first and then Glenn and then and then you know, the professor, what is a and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and're, how long have we been doing? So, what are we talking about? Destiny decides to answer Alex's question of what a coup is. Destiny, God damn it. And then watch Alex's reaction.

Okay. What is a coup? Since this was the most devastating, the most devastating coup ever. A coup is made to make an act of scheme to try to circumvent the peaceful transfer of power. Like racially coup. No, they didn't take any action.

They tried to remove him on a line. There's nothing illegal done there event the peaceful transfer of power like rescue. No, they didn't take any action. It was trying to remove him on a line. There's nothing illegal done there to try and remove the intelligence agencies. Inferring, I've said dossier. Oh, that was illegal. That dossier was saying his dirty dossier. Did they try to remove and they took it to the city. Do you wait? Wait, wait, wait, hold on., wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait I don't you fight on the air to the sky. Instead of doing the Wino, the answer to that. Oh, and the Trump is something wrong. Focus on Trump. Yeah, find me a coup. I just did. Did you not listen to him?

No, no, no, no. No. The sub was going to ring wall. My, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my, my What? I guess not. So here's Glent's definition of a coup. Why? Well, why not? Yeah. Well, it's not really going to bring well. Glenn, you're a well respected journalist. You look at this from the world.

What do they usually look like? I know. No, Destiny is now the incredible giant of journalism in the constitutional scholar I used to be, as Destiny said. But anyway, a coup is generally what is in power or people who are trying to get into power. Or did it use to be force of the armed factions of that country and use it to eliminate the legal process and take over. So for example, if Trump had called in the military on his side in January 6, where he

had gotten the military to block people from trying to remove him from office on January 20, that is always what we say is a coup. Nothing that looks like what happened on January 60th. So that's not the definition of a coup. That's like a definition of maybe a military coup. Yeah. There are tons of different types of coup. Many of which don't involve the military at all, and many that don't require violence.

Sure. If this is the definition, the gun is using that nothing other than taking control of the military to stay in power is even describable as an attempted coup, which isn't a defensible position, but it seems to be where the head is at. Which is kind of a problem. Yeah, I mean, that is kind of where we're struggling with is because January 6th was stopped a little bit too early for people to really understand what was going to have to happen afterwards. Right.

You know, it's not like, like, I understand, the capital building is pretend, it's just a building. Right. You know, you can, we could all run into the capital building and just dance around and be like, ah, we run the government, that's not how the government works. Right. You know, the certification of the results is a ceremony.

It doesn't change the outcome of the election. No. That could have been done anywhere. It could have been done at a denny's. You know, all of those things are available. In order to then take over the country, there would have to have been follow up shit going down. Definitely.

That 10-day investigation would have involved Nancy Pelosi going to jail. It would have been 10 nights of long nights. Exactly. Yes, it would have been nonstop consolidating the power that is taking control of, you know? Yeah, and when you say that it ended too early, it's like, no, thank God it did.

Yeah, yeah, thank God it did. It ended too early for us to like actually be able to point to it and be like, this is what, that was the beginning. Right, right, right. Yeah. If this had gone on another day, Nancy Pelosi would have been hanging on television. Yeah.

That is how it worked. I think you're probably right. Yeah. So he and wants to go to questions. Yeah. And I imagine, go to questions. Yeah. And I mad him. Smart. Yeah.

This is the heart of it. Coos are militaries seizing the telecommunications and the government institutions and killing their opposition. You could do lots of different types of things. And Trump is the new, I would be hit. Trump did not do that. That the folks are fucking people being led into the Capitol is not a freaking coup, man. I'm an electronic coup.

You know, but let's, let's go on. This is these are from zero, man. I'm an electronic coup. You know what? But let's, let's go on. This is, these are from zerohedge.com from some of the premium users of the website. Oh good, this is gonna be, this is gonna be great questions, I imagine. Premium users of zero hedge. Yeah, it's premium content apparently.

Hmm. So here's the first question. All right. The question is, the New York Times acknowledged that there were FBI informants in the capital in January six, and then they give a link to the New York Times article. Given the FBI informants in the capital in January 6th, and then they give a link to the New York Times article. Given the agency's history of entrapment, is it a stretch that some agents may have

provoked the riot? And then there's a follow-up question. Why was law enforcement so well prepared for the insurrection in quotes, despite the presence of informants? So the first question, first part of the question, is it a stretch that some agents may have provoked the riot? So, so informants are something that FBI has been using for years, decades. Is it illegal? No. They can do it as long as they use, do it within the legal means. If an informant is in the cap, that makes sense. That makes sense. That doesn't mean that the FBI is behind it. Informants are also people who live their lives.

Like I could be an informant for FBI, I could go and murder somebody. That doesn't mean the FBI had me murdered that person. So I think there's a lot of misinformation there that gets conflated with facts. But well, and number two, uh, is that the other day? Do I think it's possible that an FBI agent could do that? Sure. Anything's possible, but it put out the evidence. There is an evidence of this. The whole ray up thing. Show us the right evidence that actually. He just said, I was ready.

I was saying, come and rest me. Try to get arrested. I just said I was ready. You're right. Did he did ray ups say that he was an FBI agent? You guys are just coming. We're not saying he works for that probably. I think that if I had to guess that's the Southern probably lost center. If right, I set them up. Why do they single other person? They're attested to that. Out of the if he was for into people's ears.

If he was leading breach teams, why didn't any of the arrestives when he's on white. In a single person come out. I'm asking why I'm asking this though. The next reasonable question. Why is it a single person come out of touch? Because we exposed him because he's he's the leader there. Yeah. And and and and he's because we exposed him because he's the leader there.

Yep. And he's there doing it. He said, you know, on video, he said, I led this. I did. I'm not answering my question. I'm saying, why is anyone else come out? I tested it. It's not a single person.

You know what horse tracks, right? You know what an orchestra is. The conductor leaves the symphony. Yep. So in all the musicians have to see the conductor and we'll tell you, that's why he says go into the capital. Why is it anybody I am a scientist? That was when you're a doctor. Get the sense from this first question. And maybe they're going to be now not so much pointed against Alex's side. Oh no, maybe a percentage nearing a hundred of the zero-head premium subscribers

are on one side of the issue. Could be. Good on bed for just putting it bluntly that the idea of some kind of fed plot could have been behind J6 since anything is possible, but they haven't provided any evidence. It's good that he doesn't have to like follow an impulse to pretend to say it's like not impossible.

Yeah, yeah. That position would back him into a corner that he couldn't deal with. Yeah. Alex is pretty drunk though. Yeah, that's, that can also back you into a corner that you can't deal with.

Especially when you're dealing with someone who likes to fuck around and is pretty sharp. Yep. So the second part of that question was about unpreparedness. Right. The law enforcement's unpreparedness. Yeah, which actually is a good question. It is. And destiny is a decent answer here, but then Alex, oh my God, this was one of the more

shocking moments, I think think in the entire debate. Okay, I'm listening. And the ill preparedness came because Trump's deployment of the National Guard in the past, especially in DC, it caused a lot of people to be uncomfortable with National Guard being present in the capital when the certification of what was happening. So as they were having conversations prior to establishing security, I think they took a lot of extraordinary bureaucratic measures to make it so that I think that day, if the National Guard was going to be deployed, it either had to be, I think, took a lot of extraordinary bureaucratic measures to make it so that I think that day if the National Garbysine

To be going to be deployed it either had to be I think Miller or Walker I think one of those who had to be correct authorization Let me respond briefly which is not what we have is going away. Let me have one hour ago They're saying Trump never called for National Guard And you just said that refused it. I got your ass So when the National Guard was deployed, the only area that they were allowed to do. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right.

You just admitted. I did. I did. You got me. I got you. I had to play 340. And there from an hour ago, you said it was. That's right.

You got me. That's right. You want to do the mission. The scope of the minute. You know, people. There are. This is why Ashley never got shot. You realize that right? I'm a good shot. No, people like Ashley, but it died because the people you driving people on to this, right?

It might be funny for you. I don't know. I'm murder Ashley. You're more or less responsible with this kind of talk. Yes. Oh my God. I'm murdered. Yes. Play an effectual love the actual world. You love the oboe. You're so.

You set an hour ago that Trump never asked for an actual guard. I can show 50 articles on records. I said you just invented it. Got you. Got you. Okay. Authorize to be there. But it was an extraordinary process. When you read the J6 community in the situation, rum and sund, and everybody else complaining, where is the National Guard? Where is the National Guard? There was a whole bunch of stupid bureaucratic red tape and optics concerns if people had to cut through to get them there. So if you believe the official story and like the 15 to 20 people.

One hour ago, he said, he said, he said, he's trying to ruin National Guard. Now Trump wanted to get it for good reason. We're told. Okay, so that's it. So yeah, I was pretty surprised that Destiny pulled out the year the reason Ashley Pappet got shot. I was a little surprised there too.

But generally, I generally would say that's not productive. But in the situation like this, I'd let it go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let it fly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What do you have to lose? You're almost never going to be in a position like this. Destiny's, he's clearly getting needled by Alex.

I would call him so many more names. I would have been so much meaner. Yeah, so there's a big dunk there for Alex, but I think he's just drunk. That would have been, that would have been so fun. And the fact that if, okay, all right, I understand that we're dealing with Ian, the moderator. Yeah.

So it's not a moderator. No. But you gotta figure, even the most unmoderator moderator only allows you three who's. Woo! Only three! Unless you're Ric Flair. Yes, man, you gotta let it go. But I mean, there's no debate. Man, it's gonna woo.

There's no debate. So, or if you're Jeffrey Osborne. Sure. You know, that is. Nope. He had a song called, Can You Woo Woo Woo? It's Good Song. All right.

So, Ben asks, this is where things like, I think of, like, I would say minute three things were off the rails. Sure. Like, on our last episode. Yes. Yeah, I was gonna agree with you. But here is where things are just broken the pinata and like Destiny has said, you're the reason that Ashley Pappock got shot. And that bet is emboldened. Oh, no. Oh, no. Go after

Alex. Here we go, bed. So you're claiming that this is staged. You're claiming that FBI was behind it. In 2019, you specifically said I almost had like a former psychosis where I thought everything was staged. So do you still have that psychosis? Well, I said almost a form. So almost still have that. Let me quote. That's out of a larger context about when you're alive. In the court deposition. I said a larger context about when you're alive. In the court deposition. I said a larger context deposition.

You said you called Sandy Hooks a Hoax and you said it was fake because of this. Sure. So you want me to talk now? Okay. Go ahead. Yeah. So I said a larger context, which is a larger five hours eight hour deposition, right? So I just told the truth.

I said a larger context. I'm explaining that the public's been lied to so much. There's a major loss in confidence where people then don't believe anything they're told and that's dangerous. That's not what you said. That's not the context. That's actually that's not as context. I know what I said.

I read it. I read the deposition. Oh, so put the full thing out. This isn't looking good for Alex because I even bet is kind of making fun of him. Yeah. That's no good. Obviously Alex is half right about the context of the quote, but he's half lying. He was talking about how the media lies so people don't believe what they're told,

but he was also talking about himself and how that turned into a form of psychosis where he believed that everything was staged. He still has that exact same relationship with reality that he did in 2012 when the shooting happened at Sandy Hook and as he did in that deposition at that same time, whether or not the term psychosis is appropriate, is another matter altogether. But I do love how Alex is demanding that bed site the entire deposition

in order for him to accept any of it. Really solid hours. Yeah, Alex has been dancing around most of this interview, not providing sources for anything, and just gloating about how Twitter is gonna get you and give you a source tomorrow. Like it's ridiculous. Yeah.

Give me the full deposition. Right. All right. Recite the deposition. I think genuinely, the smartest thing to do at this debate for like the Crasenstein would have been like, moment one, just bring up Sandy Hook. And then let Alex just try and defend himself

into a spiral. Well, maybe, but that's kind of disrespectful to the invitation, I guess. It's on guest like to like, you're having a debate about January 6th, that you open it up with J6. Sure. Or with that, Sandy Hook. I'm just saying that you could get it in there early

and you could even fit it in however you want in a less Terrible way and it's just gonna make him spiral. He's not going to be able to hang speed up speaking of which which is what we're about to listen to So put the full thing out. I don't have it with me, but I read it and stop but he Google it You're scared let me talk. Oh go ahead. So show show That's a whole nother PR firm thing things out of context to blow that stuff up. Well, that PR firm is telling you what you're saying court. No, you're not, you're not, you're going to let Alex finish the short question. And we're going to go back to the user's question.

I mean, I, Marilyn Albright told Leslie Stahl of 60 minutes, I ordered 500,000 children killed because I thought it was a good thing to do. I do it again. She's a great person. I question, Jesse Smollett, I question W.D. and I ask, I question everything, and I'm proud of everything I've done, and all that stuff is PR firm garbage.

When I talk about the general public, because the media lies about almost everything, loses trust in anything, that creates a general form of psychosis, and it's very dangerous. Some of that every day on my show, and Joe Rogan just last week said, you know, Alex Jones isn't totally right,

but he means to be right. He's more informative than CNN. They lie on purpose. And the public has lost trust in the system. That's dangerous. What do you do? So that was the full discussion. Let me give you another example.

They say no. Joe's in a customer said, I'm going to say, what is wrong with you? For that, I didn't say that. They wanted to put like now a 15 year old video back then. It was like a nine year old video of me as the Joker saying, all these horrible things, take drugs, kids, you'll die. It's great. So kids wouldn't take drugs. No, you're one of them not to psyche. I mean, what is happening? They wanted to introduce that in court. Go to bed, pops. She's like this ridiculous. Yeah. I've been smeared. Do you know what I had in my head the moment he got into a what what like five words into it,

I immediately went back to like 90s movies and just in my brain, somebody screamed, food fight! And people started throwing food at each other and that made way more sense to me. Yeah, but you know, Alex is at that point of like his, adrenaline and booze-ish cycle where it's like, it's not as amped at the moment.

Yeah. And he's like, oh, there's a lot of things I've been familiar with. Oh, he's PR firms and. He needs the bathroom and a long pinky nail, if you know what I mean. Yes. So the reason the bed is bringing this up is not so much to be like, hey,

you said all this shit about Sandy Hook. It's more to illustrate that Alex lied directly to bed on the Twitter space, Elon Musk, when they were talking about Sandy Hook. So he tries to explain this and then, Bedlam. Yeah. I mean, that Twitter space with you, with Elon Musk.

What was it? Four weeks ago or so. And you tried to claim that you didn't push the Sandy Hook conspiracy theory. You're getting a field here. I'm basing this one the whole psychosis thing. I have a thing. Yeah, Greenwald doesn't want to talk about this. It's not in the scope of the discussion. Yeah, we really got to stick to this question. It's on the user's question. You lied and that's what I got. You did push the talking news me. You did I have the quote right here. Let me read the quote

Yeah, okay, I added we're done. We're done I want to hear from Glenn Glenn's about to speak I'm gonna say this right now. Let me finish coward. I said in the context I was in the platform for questioning a school shooting they dredged that up afterwards and I barely ever talked about it It was even on a radar. So, no, no, if I'm on the airport, examining it for a year, you'd get on that, it was fake. That's what you're talking about.

All right, you know what, that's it, that's it, that's it, we're done with this fucking conversation, moving on to the user questions. Wow, that's an aggressive moderation. Now, I mean, now I'm on his team. Now a weird thing the bed should have done is instead of talking about Alex, what he said about Sanity Hook.

Yeah. Hey, remember when you were interviewed by Glenn Greenwald and you said you were drunk when you said these things about the families? Hey, Glenn, you were there. Yeah. Confirmed that Alex said he was drunk and you just laughed on air. Yeah. And you were stoked about it because, and let me remind you, you're a great journalist. Yes. Very much so. So speaking of a great journalist, one, uh, Chimes in here, because, uh, Ian has

screamed and, uh, quiet at the room. I feel like when you're a good moderator, you never have to get to that level. Shouldn't have to scream. a good moderator, you never have to get to that level. Shouldn't have to scream. No, nope. Shouldn't have to like essentially verbally pull out a bat. Yeah, at the very least, you shouldn't have to resort to fucking. Yeah. So anyway, here's gone.

Yeah. We're moving on to the user questions as told. Glenn, you had something to say. Glenn, please. Yeah, I'll first try. I want to say that we are out of time here because it's been three hours, but I did just want to say I do think that attack on Alex is a bullshit attack. We are here because we want to talk about, generally, we want to talk about whether it's

right or something. We're talking about something. And to try and make it about Alex when there are six people here presenting all kinds of evidence that you're not equipped to deal with, I think it's just a pathetic way to try and end this debate. And the last thing I want to say is, it's really given like a kind of amazingly vivid mindset into the minds of Trump era liberals who have really come to see the U.S.

security state and the courts and prosecutors as their political allies in their war that they're waging against people who disagree with them. And they have this like very romanticized view of what the FBI is, what the DOJ is, how the court systems work, how the federal government works, and all of this reveals this so well, because what's happening here is so manifest, which is that all of these agencies are being abused because the Trump movement is considered the gravest threat to establishment

power in this country, which is why the bipartisan establishment is against it. To try and make this about Alex and Sandy Hook is a really pathetic way to end the debate. I think you guys have done a good job defending your views. I think you should leave it at that. We definitely have to go because it's been three hours. I can't. Well, we're not done.

We're going to keep talking about questions. We're not done. No, no, no, no, no. I'm not done. I can't answer the user's question. Yeah, I would look at that. Give me one second. The only reason I scream is because I don't have a mute button for the cause.

I would I would prefer not to have to use my voice. I think it did a great job. Thank you. I really, really, really used to go. Will you stay? Oh, yeah. Yeah. If you're bathroom in an absolute comment, all I'm trying to say is, give us a three minute

closer comment, but I want to keep talking. Oh my God. So I was thinking about, first of all all Glenn is saying is sort of closing the comments As he did the entire debate condescending as hell But I was thinking about Ian's shutting that down so aggressively And I thought that was strange because I've not seen that in any other Debate ever not always miss debate. Yeah, yeah true So zero hatches the subscription service that's paying for this debate.

And coincidentally, they are also why Alex got sued, though indirectly. Right, that is true. Oh, and Shrewyer's source that he expanded on in his video, the defame Neil Hessland was an article that was published on zero hedge. Alex then replayed that video and discussed the story on his own show, Mirroring Claims about Hessland

and his murdered child. Had it not been for this, it's likely that the statute of limitations would not have allowed the families to sue Alex, though they're paying in suffering because of his actions still continued. That is true. Zero hedge posted that article as an attack on Heslin appearing on Megan Kelly's show, which also featured an interview with Alex. Oh, and Alex picked it up in order to help defend themselves, and in doing so, got themselves in the soup. Yep. That's a complicated ass relationship that underlies this debate. Yeah. I don't necessarily think that someone told you any needed to shut this down right away,

just in case Bed was going to bring up zero-headges role in Alex's suit, but he was very forceful. More so than any time in this debate. But I think the most likely explanation, I don't think that that's what's happened. No, no, no. I think that a producer probably was telling him to get to questions though and shut this down because they promised subscribers

that they could ask questions. Yeah, this is 100% a, we told people to spend money for this. Yeah. And now we are not giving it to them. That's bad business. Yeah. So bad tries to just come in and be like, look, I'm trying to illustrate that he lied to me.

Yes. And this is an indication of trustworthiness. Right. And then Alex lies. Yeah. The reason I went back to that is because in that Twitter space, you said that you didn't push it. You said that you just re--urgitated other people's information.

And that's not true. Because you told me- Oh, that's not true. I want to shut this down. I don't want to move the next thing. It's nothing I'm scared of this. I'm sick of it. I need five bones on this.

You are scared. I barely ever talked about it. I wanted to create an order that wasn't true. I wanted to create an order that wasn't true. 22 minutes in these court cases over a decade. 22 minutes, dude. No, I didn't. That's not what I'm doing. You guys bring it up. You and fine. Hey,

Malin Albright said she killed 500,000 kids. She'd do it again. I killed no kids. I just come on guys. Let's talk about what the people are paying it. They want to find out. They have some legitimate people. But Glenn says he wants to leave. I love when we're in. No one's gone. Let's go. People were turning out with me tonight. Okay, we're going to the second question. Let's dare. Did you want to follow up? I wanted to answer the user's question. Sure you did. Yeah. So I've never been more sure of anything than Glenn was getting paid by the hour. Yep. He shot that down faster than my therapist when time is up. We're three hours. Gotta go. Bye. He didn't even

really say goodbye. It was just like, it's been three hours. That's what I signed up for. Good luck with your dub subscriber questions. Yep That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that was a power move if there is any kind of like payoff to this long time of this Fucking episode that we're doing it is just a Glen Creewald It's just like oh my oh fuck this man You know you and I even talked about like why would anybody stick around for something this on productive? Yeah, and Glen leaving at the three hour mark tells you pretty much all you need to know Man, you and I even talked about like, why would anybody stick around for something this unproductive? Yeah.

And glad leaving at the three hour mark. Tell us you pretty much all you need to know. Yeah. Everybody up for three hours. Oh, we'll stick around. What is there, they might be more glaring for them to walk out. Exactly. Turn off the camera and just be like, fuck this.

That was the idea. Yep. So Destiny and Darren pick things up a little bit with the question of like, hey, it seems like every source of information that you don't like is biased, right? That's kind of way this is going. What's up? Game works. Why wouldn't McCarthy put any Republicans on the J6 committee about and investigate this? Well, McCarthy isn't exactly someone who's aggressively interested in pursuing the truth on this either.

Why not point like a special counsel or appoint something separate then from Congress? Well, I think that would be a fantastic idea, but again, Trump do it. Why didn't Trump do it? Trump's not in a position to do it. Yeah, but after right after J6 before he gets kicked out, why not appoint him? Well, I mean, or why not in the days before if he thinks that there's, I mean, there is, this was, there is not a really window of opportunity for that to happen a lot of other stuff is going on. So isn't it doesn't it doesn't it suck then that like you can provide absolutely no smoking. I provided

a ton of evidence. No smoking does I provided overwhelming evidence. I've not provided evidence for anything. You get a lot of Well, you've given a lot of stories and now you've got in a six foot three way that you might actually discover what happened. I've been long a proponent for an investigative committee, but not the sham J six committee. Well, they tried. They tried. No, the J six and many. Why is the J six committee a sham? I can well, you really want to hear a good faith answer to that. Yes. Why is partisan? Well, let's start with Benny Thompson. Now now the it's snow. The people on it were all partisan. That's true. But that's because McCarthy, but that's because McCarthy wouldn't put forth his nominees after Pelosi said no to two of five. Well, first of all, I think those two should have been allowed. I'm not asking you that. I'm asking why didn't

McCarthy put forth two other ones because he didn't want to legitimize a process that was totally a legitimate. So how convenient for you then that now we can also say the entire J6 committee has not convenient for me. No, it's convenient for the regime not to have a legitimate and disinterested fact-finding commission to truly get to the bottom of the real questions that matter. But there is no there is no disinterested fact-finding. You guys say, call me, was bias, even though he was a lifelong republished.

You say, what? You say, what? You say, what? You say, what? You say, what? You say, what? You say, what? You say, what?

You say, what? You say, what? You say, what? You say, what? You say, what? You say, what? You say, what? You say, what?

You say, what? You say, what? You say, what? You say, what? You say, what? So then there are no unbiased lines of data or none. I just just, if names you mentioned absolutely. All the other names. That's that. And any other names that you would have mentioned at any given point in time? The only unbiased sources of those who have explicit and a blind following of Trump. Don't you get it?

That was, that was incredible. That is. That was a beautiful moment. That truly was. And it only gets better because Destiny asks to follow up question, I think is really good. And that is like, who could do this? Right.

Who could investigate this? Exactly. Who would be able to just investigate this? I think there are some people who could. I think Jim Jordan, who could could. Jordan, what's there? I would say literally part of the investigation. I would say for there to be a legitimate midi, it would have to include people who are genuinely interested in pursuing not only the question, but many Thompson and the hyperpartisan

Democrats wanted to find out, but people who are sympathetic to other side who would be willing to pursue the questions that I've raised. Sure. And have been raised that were not addressed at all in the community because all they were interested in was demonizing Trump and setting up a criminal proceeding for Trump. They weren't interested in getting to the bottom of the questions. Why was there uniquely poor security? What was going on with the level of federal infiltration? These questions are all last as part of the incident. 847 page report.

I invite you to read it at some point. No. The reality is, is that absolutely not. Could have put five Republicans that he chose on that committee. But because Nancy Pelosi said no to two of them, think banks in Jordan, that were being actively being investigated or would have been the subjects of the J6 committee

He said no to anything and now we get to say it was all a sham even though the majority of the people interviewed were Republicans Even though as was stated earlier every single person in the lot of the Republican issue, but it shouldn't be a surprise to you Many Republicans institutional apparatus of the party Do you understand that some Republicans don't like Trump enough? They're okay. Darren, Darren. I like the question of like, who could investigate this? He's like, well, the committee would have to include conspirators.

I was, yeah. I mean, it's like the committee would have to include the people who committed the crime. Yes, definitely. We need some moles. Yeah, I mean, that is just just a minute. I mean, it's remarkable. You could, you could not more be,

more obviously give up the game without just explicitly being like, do you not understand what I'm saying to you? Right. Are you willfully obtuse or do you not understand? Yeah, I mean, it is, it would be like, Betty, at this point, I would be, you know, an hour ago, three hours ago, I'm with everybody else going like,

are you being insane for saying all the stuff you're saying? Now I'm with baby, being like, how are you not getting me? Right. Do you not understand? Are you not entertained? No. Exactly.

So you might not be entertained because they seem to be able to have conversation. I assume Alex is out. Yes, Alex is on another iced tea break. But he comes back. Gotcha. Can I ask you a child to Trump? If every single person in government,

if every Republican, if every Democrat, if every judge, if every person in the United States that is in Trump's peripheral, ends up hating Trump or not wanting to work with Trump. At what point did that say, at what point you were, at what point did you just say, I've been gone for 10 minutes, let me, no, you can't just run back and you're gonna come off, okay? Yes, he can.

We not say maybe Trump was actually genuinely a horrible person, or maybe Trump actually genuinely tried to circumvent legal processes in order to coup the government or at least uh... whatever you would call him asking pens to unilateral i need to make it his number one campaign about January 6th should be the number one campaign issue wow not inflation not open borders not human president try to circumvent the peaceful transfer power the first time in his history actually takes me to the next question this is going to be our final

so i'm not going to be a big thing with anything. So yeah, welcome back. So it's fun. It's fun that we have one more question, because we only had one other one. Yeah, I think they intended to get to more or there are only two subscribers. It's possible. But this question is not fruitful. It doesn't lead to anything.

And Alex just ends up rambling. Hmm. The question is, will destiny address quote, is white supremacy the biggest domestic threat faced by the United States? And I opened it up to the panel after you even answered their student. Um, domestic threat. I don't know how the FBI judges domestic threat. It wouldn't surprise me.

There's a lot of crossover with like white supremacy groups and then being like organized like a domestic threat. But my guess would be domestic threats in the US is probably fairly low to the total security of the US. I don't really care that much about it. I don't know. But that's the official policy is why supremacism is the number one threat. That's what is that? That's not a policy. That's a statement. No, that's an executive order in June of 2021. Put out by the by the by the

negative policy choices or what are the bad things that are happening because of that declaration? They they they try to skew crime numbers. They say everything is that. I mean, this is like everything. Everything's that skew crime numbers. They say everything is that I mean, this is like every every that skew cry crime numbers you that what do you mean? You're gonna cry by black people anymore. Didn't we just get all of the the guys that are more than one crime is white people. They say the number one crime is white people. The number one crime. I'm gonna play the number one. I don't think the FBI is in charge of I mean, it is more. I'm involved in it. I didn't say involved in crime statistics. I'm pretty sure they just... I'm pretty sure they can go to the federal...

There's a name for the site that has like... I don't believe her like hiding under a rock somewhere. You have a speech for an hour yesterday. Yeah, but you know, the Manga people are terrorists here about to take over. This guy is fucked up. This guy is... How is this happening? How is he happening? How is he awake?

Man. Yeah. Is there a lot, there had to have been a rule that you can't point out that Alex is drunk off his ass, right? There had to have been. Other what, because the first thing I'm doing is like going, Alex, you're slurring and drunk off your ass. You are really speedy at the beginning of this.

You are drunk now. Yes. According to the rules, here's a problem. You made it insane, Vibeshiff. Of all the conspiracy theories, of all the, though, if this happened, then this happened. Of all the causes and effects we have discussed tonight, there is only one that is inviolable.

You started drinking and now you are drunk. Yeah, and I think that, you know, I would, I would suggest that I've, you know, I made some blanket statements about Alex being on substances and stuff like that. Sure. And I guess really, I can't prove that 100%. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence. Right. Um, but I would say that he better be drunk. Yeah.

Because otherwise, yeah, I don't even know what he's not drunk. Yeah. Otherwise. Yeah. I don't even know. He's not okay. Yeah. Otherwise he's not healthy. It better be a better stimulants and booze. Yes. You if you sound like that, it should be because you chose to. Right. And it happens mysteriously after a bunch of iced tea bricks. Yes. If you have a habit of drinking and you said that you slandered the,ered the the Sandy hook families because you were drunk on it or right.

Right. Maybe. Right. You're drunk. If you sound like that and you didn't mean to, you should go to a hospital. Yeah, it could be. That's a hospital. That might be a stroke.

Yeah. Yeah. So destiny makes a scandalous comment. Hmm. There are. You said it's good that Biden is running on January 6th. I think January 6th is a huge deal. Yes. They president trying to circumvent the peaceful transfer of power is a really big issue.

And that's why he can't be allowed to be voted for. No, that's not what he can't. He's not allowed to be voted for. He's quite a mean 14th amendment. So that if you have any prior. I want to show you an engagement. And engage in reminding all the rest of you on the run for a few hours. We have to be clear about what's really happening. Yeah, yeah, thanks there.

Thanks, there. These people don't care about the so-called insurrection. That's not Biden's audience. Biden's audience is to speak in support of this phony legal theory that's being served as a pretext to remove him from the ballots. And therefore, you know, in the defense of the agreement, he's trying to rally the deep state, saying Trump's going to persecute us and rally the deep state if we don't stop him because they've committed a lot of work for him. So, I mean, in fact, it's a Supreme Court's looking at it.

They actually decided to take the case. So it doesn't matter what any of us think, the Supreme Court's going to roll on it. And I take the case. So it doesn't matter what any of us think, the Supreme Court's going to roll on it. And I think, you know, whatever they decide is what we're going to live with. Well, let me ask this. What else is to be elected? What do you mean what happens? What do you think? So that criminal investigation is criminal trials.

So, you mean if he gets reelected before being sentenced, if he is convicted? Yeah. I think he just takes over being president. Hope hard in himself or I give the presidency. And I know he think that's all he's going to do. He asked bar to investigate Hillary. I mean, quite the opposite. Trump's own bureaucracies were undermining him. Yeah, got smitten off in this. Oh, that's amazing. Well, boy.

Jack of Tito's, because that's Alex's brand of vodka. Anyway, controversial statement, the destiny makes three and a half hours into this debate is that January 6th matters. Yep. It's not ridiculous. Yep. Yep. So Alex has that conception that like Biden is speaking to the deep state through speeches

and stuff like that. It's just more of the like, you know, secret messages that he picks up on. And he says this a lot about various things that all these globalists do that they're like, oh no, this is messaging to like warn people that Trump is about to punish them. And it's all just, I mean, delusions. I just like the idea that, sure, the deep state works for him, but Biden still has to rally them. Right.

He can't be like, hey guys, here's our orders now. He has got to be like, oh, what's he doing? You need to get them excited. Yeah, he wants it. You know what he does? You know what he does? Every quarter, he takes them on a team building exercise. Dude, trust exercises.

You know what I was just thinking? Roaps exercises. You know what I was just thinking? Ropes course. You know what I was just thinking? What's that? I'm actually, you know what? I'm glad that the deep state feels good about what they're doing, you know? Because I'm sure they could get down.

It's a lot of work. Yeah, and sometimes morally, maybe not even the best kind. Do be as at best. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you get a little rally every now and then. It's good. It's jobs here. Anything Alex is saying is to be believed. Yeah. They don't sleep. They work around the clock. It's a ridiculous schedule. They don't have

any fun. No. They're they're borderline blind, but also they can see into the future. They delight in evil. So they do have fun. You know, if you like what you do, you never work a day in your life. That's not true. Unless you need to be rallied by Joe Biden. So here comes, what I would say is probably the last substance-based clip that we have.

Okay, okay. This is where the debate. There's 38 more clips. Just one more after this. Okay, but this is the debate fizzling to a close very depressingly. All right. Everyone can. No, call me doing the investigation. I was from Trump. No. Yeah. Hillary's email. Yeah. Hillary's emails was under Biden. What about the Hunter Biden? There's no acknowledge for that. Hunter Biden investigation. That's yeah. That's Biden's DOG. Under Biden. He was charged and he was convicted on the grind.

And that's because the Democrats want him to step down for news. Oh, my God. Yeah, all we know now the Democrats don't want Biden to step down. That's it. It's a big. Who are the Democrats? The debate continues. You are the Democrat.

I mean, don't slide this down. It's been all of the news. And then they're putting pressure on me to do it. You're saying that's made up. Doug, not going to stop down. That's like, how does he step down because you still need to have a primary? And it's past. He's frozen out the other candidate to his primary.

The deadline has passed. So if he was to step down right now, Harris would likely be the, uh, who the nominee would be. Well, it's too late for news. I think he'd miss out on several states. Go ahead. We've we've really answered that question. We really remember that one right to the ground.

Ladies and gentlemen, tonight is coming to a close. Oh my God. Thank you so much for putting this debate on. Yep. So interesting point that is brought up that is, oh, you're talking about all this persecution of Trump and all this and unfairness and 100 100 Biden is being prosecuted by his dad's department of justice. Sure, but in in in the right wing's defense We control them, but then this is this is context realized as oh, yeah

Of course they're doing that because they're trying the secret deep state is trying to get Biden to step down So Gavin Newsom can come in. Oh my god. And then bad explains the logistical reasons why this is stupid. Sure. Alex has no response. Nope. And it just ends. Yeah, I think we've nailed that question. Good night, everybody. Zero hedge forever. Oh my god. What an ineffectual drunk. Wow. So here's Alex's closing thought on the on the debate. No, I want to congratulate everybody for being here. This has been a great way. Strongly disagree. I genuinely can't think of a thing less true than what he just said. Yeah. Congratulations, everybody. Yeah, good to be. So we go to the end of this.

And I don't know if we learn much about January 6th I mean we learned a bit about some of the claims that People like Alex and sure Glan and Darren have about their feelings and some opinions that they have that aren't Substantuated yeah, and some of the illusions to past misdeeds by the FBI used to imply that they must have done everything this time and sure Just feel like no substances gained at all through this. But having gone through all of it, I think Destiny did a fine job. I think it did about as good a job as anybody could do in any of these circumstances. Probably. And I was, I think the bed did better than anyone possibly could have imagined.

Probably. It doesn't matter in terms of swaying anyone's opinion. Not at all. But it was a good job. In an impossible situation, they did something. And they did okay. I mean this wholeheartedly. I think that it will be a more effective strategy

to rather than try and debate the right wing to try and rope them into bets wherein you play games unrelated and they have to abide by the rule. I know that would be interesting. That's fascinating. Yeah. So instead of this whole like, let's argue about J6, uh-uh, game of family feud. You got Destiny and Bed on one side

You got Alex you got Glenn Greenwald. That's the Family Feud thing. Oh Wait family Feud's a different game than double dare. I'm sorry Sorry No, I can't I've just I have been so thoroughly shut down I thought when you were saying bats you're talking about like you know, I have been so thoroughly shut down. I thought when you were saying bets, you're talking about like, you know, I bet you like about a certain fact. Yeah, that all, okay, I'll take you that.

And then that there's some kind of a structured like, pay up. Sure, I would, I would go for that. Okay. I would like that. I was thinking more like, listen, we're never going to come to the, like, well, J6, blah, blah, blah, never gonna happen.

But we play a family feud game, whoever wins, J6 happened, or it didn't, the end. No more argument, no conversation, everyone has to abide, family feud, winner lose, winner takes all. Who's hosting? Me, obviously. Okay, well, I think this is,

it's self-serving a little bit. You know, I, I, I don't think Steve Harvey can do it. Not after cat. Oh, no, not after what cat said. Oh, no, not after what cat said so I want to I also want to make this abundantly clear when I say I think that they did a great job or a good job in an Unwinnable impossible situation where nothing is really going to stick. Yeah, yeah I am in no way saying that I would do a better job or that anybody like could do a better job. I don't think that this is a productive enterprise, this engagement in this arena,

because for the most part, what they're doing is stepping into a world where a fictional reality is predominant. And trying to argue using logic, reason, and all of those things that don't apply really to the fake reality, there is a different form of honesty. There's a different form of logic, in fact, and evidence. And the two don't overlap. So even though you're doing a good job in this space, do people who can see, like, ah, I can track this thought.

This is what you're saying. It doesn't really make a dent. But I couldn't do better, and I don't think anybody could. I mean, yeah, I don't think there is a way. So I'm looking down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's not to say that there is a, yeah, the problem with evaluating a performance

is you can only evaluate it within the context of what's happening. So Destiny did a better job than the Crasensteins. The Crasensteins did a better job than Glenn Greenwald. Greenwald did a better job than Bati. And Bati did a better job than Alex. And debatably Alex did a better job than Bati and Bati did a better job than Alex. And debatably Alex did a better job than me. But Alex won by a wide mile and you cannot win a debate whenever it is totally fine for someone

to get more than three who's in before a moderator goes you can't do it you're not going to do it. You can't. Yeah and when you're in a situation where you're in that person's studio, their friends with the people who are paying for it, the moderator is clearly on their side. The person's okay for him to step outside in the middle of the bait and get drunk and smoke cigarettes. Right. I mean, like it's a ridiculous proposition. Yeah. Before he was drunk, he said, I will dominate you.

Yes. This is not a debate. That was before he was drunk, he said, I will dominate you. Yes. This is not a debate. This is not a debate. That was before he was drunk. And when it's like acceptable for him to present as evidence, look on Twitter tomorrow. Yeah. Yeah. Like it's absurd. No, you can't evaluate a performance like that. No, not really.

And I think that I think that there is no such thing as winning in a circumstance where the behavior that Alex is displaying isn't penalized. Right. And that, that, that isn't an inherent problem with the false reality because inside that false reality his behavior is somehow not a problem. Yeah.

And it's not a condemnable. Yeah. I think the problem that we keep coming back to and I know it's so hard to get around because you can't. You can't get around to this problem is that if you want to turn things into win or lose in any conflict with Alex, Alex is going to win based on the Alex rules. He makes the game when you engage with him. That is,'s in his studio. He's in you know, he's drunk You can't even what are you what is he going to say? What are you gonna say afterwards tomorrow? I got you yesterday. He'll be like a house drunk. It doesn't matter

Well, he probably wouldn't even like any time you make a point about anything He could just be like Biden speech last night And then he will think that you don't have a response to that. Then you won. Exactly. He won because the game is rigged and it's dumb and it's dumb. It's for him to win. But like I said, yeah, as good as it could be.

Yeah. So and I think that there were a couple of points where even things that I didn't really expect Yeah, we're we're made agree like you killed actually bad bit that one was good shocking. Yep the point of like Hey, why are you so obsessed with thinking that ray eps text mean something but somehow the proud boys ones don't right That's a really fine point in a logical, that would have been a head shot. It's possible to get around that one. But yeah, it's interesting. Yeah, I don't know.

No, I believe that, you know, and the family few thing is a joke, but the only way to talk, the only way to conflict with Alex has to be Marshall or outside of the realm of his game. You know, it has to be something where he's not allowed to talk in this way in an effect dual manner. You know what I mean? Yeah, but I would, if you play basketball, then it doesn't matter what Alex thinks about where the ball goes.

If it goes in the hoop, you get a point. Do you remember, you remember playing pick up games with your friends and they'd argue whether something was a three point or not? That would be ours. No, but don't care. There is something to that. And you see the way that Alex is even disrespectful and tried to turn court into his own show.

So even outside somewhat of these structures where he has these just, like almost comical defense assistants built in, even then he will still try to play the same games and tell the point where he is not allowed to. And that becomes a problem. Yeah. And the illustration of him as like an ineffectual

uninformed idiot. Now, that is this. This should, in any right thinking world, erode his fan base considerable. You would think. People should see this and be like, holy shit. Look at his idiot. Yep, they won't.

People, it should. Talk to Carlson said that he lies all the time and it won't care. I mean, it should lower Alex's estimation at the very least. And these other people's mind, not necessarily to the point in personal life where I'm sure they can't imagine him being a good person.

Maybe they do, but I don't care. If I were there and I would have some questions. But more in a like, eat this was, this is an irresponsible booking. This is a bad booking. Like as a booker, it's just a bad booking. Well, I mean, even hours and hours ago, at the beginning of our coverage of this,

I explained why Alex is an irresponsible choice to have on this panel, even without considering any of his behavior. The circumstances of his very close connections to the people who did the insurrection. Yeah. This is not the fact that he shares a lawyer with Joe Biggs. These are things that are like,

no, we cannot just on a basic level trust you to have an unbiased and uninvested answer. That Roger Stone went to prison for Trump was pardoned by Trump and then went to work with Alex. Didn't he, didn't, wait, was it? The work was more before. It was the other way, yeah, yeah, yeah. You went to work for Michael and Dell.

Right, that was the, that was the after it. Yeah, exactly, that was the one. Yeah, but still, still quite a conflict. Yeah. Anyway, we come to the end of this and buff, fuck, this has been too long. I'm glad we're done. Yes, but still still quite a conflict. Yeah. Anyway, we come to the end of this and buff. Fuck, this has been too long. I'm glad we're done. Yeah. Yeah. And never to speak of debates again. This was a, like a question, a bad idea, maybe on my part, I think, but it started and you know, you got to finish it. You know, the original pitch,

I think the very first pitch was, we'll do the documentary treatment. We'll do it over the course of a week. Yeah. Then the second pitch was two parts and here we are. I just thought that we couldn't, like spend an entire week. I totally get it. Ah.

So anyway, we're done. We'll be back with another episode that will not be this long. No. At some point. Probably. Maybe Friday. Could be. Who knows? Yeah yeah but until then we're website and do you do it so I'll try to calm yeah Rose on Blue Sky we are on Blue Sky it's knowledge fight yep we'll be back but until then I'm Neo I'm Leo I'm DZX Clark

uh fuck I wish I would wait no that's also in the clip I wish I could make that into audio you twirling the pan i could do that imagine jordan twirling the pan whoo yeah whoo yeah whoo and now here comes the sex robots andy and chan's a sure on the earth thanks for holding so i like some of the same color of a huge fan i love your work i love you I love you.