Knowledge Fight - #93: 2015 Investigation Last Looks

Episode Date: October 19, 2017

Today, Dan and Jordan finish up the 2015 investigation for real over a bottle of wine. The gents discuss how clear it becomes on closer analysis that Alex Jones was the victim of a dirty trick/psyop at the end of 2015 that led him to end up supporting Donald Trump. Probably a coincidence that he was hanging out with a dirty trickster and psyop specialist at the time.

Andy and Kansas, you're on the air, thanks for holding. So, Alex, I'm a first-name caller, I'm a huge fan, I love your work. I love you. Hey, everybody, welcome back to Knowledge Fight. I'm Dan. I'm Jordan. We're a couple dudes, like to sit around,

drink novelty beverages, and talk a little bit about Alex Jones. But today, we have returned to our roots, my friend, and we are drinking the reddest of red blends. Sure, 14 hands. 14 hands, cause it's all 14 hands on deck. Oh, you know what? You're not wrong.

You might have just bought that randomly, but today it is all hands on deck. We got some serious business to go through. Let's do it. As I described to you a little bit before the show, oh, this is also a podcast where I know a lot about Alex Jones. How much do I know about him?

Almost nothing. Good call. But I did get a tweet from a listener, whose name escapes me at this point, and I apologize. But they made a good point that at this point, we're almost a year into this. You don't know almost nothing about Alex Jones, and that's an unfair way for us to open the show.

It's kind of bullshit. I think they're highly overestimating my ability to remember anything that you tell me. Okay, maybe I know a lot about Alex Jones, and you have forgotten a lot of about Alex Jones. Yeah, that's probably true. Maybe that's a more accurate way for us to start the show. But be that as it may.

Yeah, that suggests that I have ever listened to you. I think I really just talk. Unfair. Yeah. Rude. I don't appreciate it. So, last week on Monday, we put out an episode where- Cause I think the thing you hate about me

is that I interrupt you on it. I know that I hate it. It's frustrating. It's conversationally difficult. I know, I had to do it there. So, last week, we put out an episode where we essentially ended the 2015 investigation into why Alex Jones joined up with Team Trump.

Indeed. I declared it dead. We know pretty much for a fact that he joined up because Roger Stone is lying to him on a massive scale. And on top of that, Russia. Right. So, that was where we left off. And he got a gold star from Trump

and went home to his mother. He did. That was, he got a gold star from our friend, Steve Pachanik. Yep. Who's going to factor heavily into this episode actually. Okay. All right.

But I realized, I sat down and I did some thinking. I thought about it a bit. And I realized that we might have been a little bit capricious in ending the investigation or in declaring case closed. Right. Absolutely. And one thing triggered that in my mind.

There was something that happened the other day on Alex's show that I covered on an episode while we were alone. I was alone. You weren't on the show for that. There was an instance. There was something. I'm sorry, I had to go grab the clip

because I forgot to load it up. Take your time. But here it is. This triggered something in my brain and made me realize we need to double back. You know, sitting and thinking and having something trigger in your brain, that's how Gautama invented Buddhism dance.

So I think you're about to really crack the case. I think we may. Now, of course, that also led to the genocide in Myanmar right now. So there's that. The Rohingya. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, not great.

Not great. What I'm saying is let's go back in time and kill Gautama rather than Hitler because that would solve the real problem. Oh, sure, yeah. Great, great. I don't stand behind that, but I do want to play this clip for you

and discuss it because I'm not sure if you have even listened to the episode in question of this. I did. All right. Prove it. I don't remember a goddamn thing. Well, good.

You were just talking to Cthulhu. What am I going to pay attention to? This is going to be fresh for you and maybe a repetition for people who listen, but it still will set the stage for what we're going to be going over. Okay. Paul, we're going to go to Georgia and talk to Paul.

Paul, thanks for calling. You're on the air worldwide. Hello? Yes, sir, go ahead. Yeah, I just want to bring up a point. Steve Vachinnick came on yesterday on David Knight Show and said this whole thing didn't happen. Are you aware of that?

Yeah, I think it's preposterous. I've watched the raw footage. I've talked to folks that were there. You can't fake people dying and bleeding out. And I just, he can have his opinion. I can have mine, but I don't buy into that. Well, it's almost like a disinformation campaign. Is he still working for the CIA here?

I mean, this whole thing. Well, I think that's safe to say, yeah. So. All right, if anybody disagrees with Alex, who he has had on the show in the past, that person is now a federal agent. Right, doing a disinformation campaign. Yeah, that's how that works.

Again, don't get in bed with psych warfare people. Don't do it. So I heard that. He just figured it out. I heard that clip and it blew my mind. Because first of all, that was news to me that Steve Vachinnick doesn't believe that Las Vegas shooting happened.

Second, it's crazy to me. He doesn't even believe the hurricane happened. He does. And he lived through. He does believe that. He was there and he was like, this is a false flag hurricane. The lesson that he took from that hurricane

was mind your manners. But he does believe it happened. That's the best lesson to take from a hurricane. No doubt. So I heard that clip. I was like, I need to think about Steve Vachinnick a little bit more. I need to explore him.

Like Buddha. And where he was in the game at the end of 2015. Okay. And before I did that, I decided, hey, I never listened to David Knight's show. Why don't I go back and listen to Steve Vachinnick actually say that Las Vegas didn't happen? You poor man.

So now you're gonna have to listen to that too. Fuck David. Here are a couple clips from the October 4th, 2017 show. The real news with David Knight, where Steve Vachinnick comes on and says that the Las Vegas attack did not happen. Naturally. Dr. Vachinnick, let's go straight

to the shooting in Vegas. Your comments. All right, let me tell you number one, why I can't get on the internet. The reason is very simple. I'm being hacked. The reason why you're hearing me now is another person's phone call.

Sure. This is part of 9-Eleven. They can call it in 30, but everything you said, David, is the same thing I said when 24 hours to 9-Eleven. My CIA operatives admitted that they did it. I have the names of the people. If you have the fucking names. It's because of 9-Eleven.

It's a continuation of 9-Eleven. It's the same thing as 9-Eleven. Right, but he says he has the names of all these people then. I implore you, sir. Let's get on with it. Let's get some Stevie Larry nicks going on here. Barry Manilow, let's get on with it.

Because we need, I believe that the entire world's security is contingent on you producing these fucking names, Steve. Yeah, and who the fuck did 9-Eleven, Steve, huh? He knows. He knows. Who did it? And David Bush, Cheney, Chertoff, Giuliani,

the Mossad operatives who blew up the building in Uncondi and as well as Cole and Pound. And this is what happened. So what we're happening, what's happening now is the continuation of Sandy Hook false flag, St. Bernardino false flag. Yesterday in Las Vegas, a complete false flag. It was absolute nonsense.

You could hear the verbiage. You could hear the same setup as we had in Sandy Hook. The narrative is so predictable that no one was killed. There was no shooting. And in fact, what happened in the giveaway was this was the greatest killing at all time of America. That's distinctive of Trump. He has to have the most and the best.

The sad part is that Trump fell into this system and he's co-opted by the Department of HHS, the CIA and FBI. What we need to do in America now is demand the indictment of presidents and indictment of officials. I don't know if it'll happen, but this is enough reason to start a revolution. Holy shit!

That's crazy. This is, he is the most right ever for the wrongest reason in the history of the world. The idea of indicting the president. Yeah, it needs to happen. And so many of these, look, fucking, it starts with, what, Reagan in the Iran-Contra scenario? Sure.

And every president since then should have been put in jail. And Larry Nichols in the Iran Congress. Exactly, exactly. But fucking Christ is he right. Well, right. And he is right for the worst, I love it. Let's not dally around with the idea that he's right because the part that he's wrong about

is more important, I believe. You know what? The thing is he puts it forward so confidently that while he was talking there was a part of me that was trying to figure out a way that all of these things could be false flags. There is not. He is fucking stupid.

It seems prohibitive in terms of difficulty. A lot of work would go into all of this stuff. Yeah, there's no doubt. But it is fascinating that his line on it is that Trump has gone south and he started doing false flags. Yeah, and now it's time for a resolution. Which is wild. It is time for a revolution against Trump

because he faked the Las Vegas shooting. And he had to. And he had to in order to have the largest mass shooting faked in the history. I, at what point do people just love Steve Puchenik because that is the craziest bullshit I've ever heard. Like, I like to keep in my head sort of a power ranking of my favorite crazies on Alex's show.

And Steve Puchenik is not even in the top five for me. I know that. We got Hamamoto up top. We're gonna meet number two on our next episode. Of course. I'm gonna go do a deep dive into this next crazy on our episode that will air at the end of the week. But come on.

Steve is, no, he is just, save your praise until we get through all this. Okay, before we even go any further, do you think he's deliberately lying or do you think he's lost his mind? I think he's deliberately lying. You think he's deliberately lying. I think this is like warfare.

And blaming it on Trump. Yes. Okay. This is like warfare, quite frankly. All right. I also think he's a little bit crazy. There's no doubt about that. I think it's absolutely insane.

Yeah, but even so, I mean, even that clip, you heard him still in 2017, Sandy Hook was fake. Of course. And Alex, by virtue of David Knight, is allowing this to be broadcast on his show, unquestioned. Right, here's my theory. Operating theory with zero information. Okay.

All right, and I wanna get this out upfront. That way, the rest of the episode can prove me wrong, but I had a good time. All right, sure. I think that when Steve Pachennick lived through the hurricane. Okay. Okay, he realized climate change is real.

And when that happened, it broke his brain. Because he spent all of his time denying it, and now for the first time, he's confronted with reality, and his entire worldview breaks down. So there's two ways to go. You can either change everything you think, or you can double down on your conspiracies. Let me pitch a continuation of your theory,

but a slightly different version. All right. So he realizes the climate change is real in the hurricane, and decides he's gotta do his part to get Trump out of there so someone responsible will take over. Okay, okay. But he knows that the only place he has influence is with a bunch of crazies.

Right. And so the only way he's gonna be able to affect change is by making an even more insane theory for them to get on board with, and that is, Las Vegas didn't happen. Okay. I'm in. Unfortunately, it backfires,

because the next day, Alex Jones disavows him. It says he's still working for the CIA on his broadcast. I don't think that's a bad idea at all. So here's Steve talking more about how it was fake. This is still from the real news with David Knight, of course. There was no death, no killings, no shooter, absolutely nothing. And the reason for it-

Wait a minute, you're saying there was nobody killed in Las Vegas? No, nobody. Nothing. There was basically a total false flag. It was a total Sandy Hook. I do not. I do not like these-

Even in false flag operations, things still happen. I also don't like the expression, it was a total Sandy Hook. Like, that's grim. It's real. Look, we live in a world now that is so beyond insane, that I can't help but laugh. Guys, it was a classic Sandy Hook.

The fucking most lunatic, like- It's monstrous. That's a real thing that somebody said. Yeah. And there's a number of people who are listening who are probably like, fuck yeah. Yeah, no. Look, if I did that on stage as a bit,

that would be so beyond, that people would see that as the most ridiculous thing that you can possibly say. You might get some press. And he means it. Yeah. That would be great. I would be on Jezebel as the,

this comedian thinks that it's okay to go too far. Yeah, so- That whole thing. The next clip I have here from the David Knight thing. I believe this is the last clip. Yeah. I want to be clear because I'm saying that David Knight's being a dick and allowing Steve Pachanic to say

that Sandy Hook didn't happen as evidence that the Las Vegas attack didn't happen. And in this clip, it becomes clear that David Knight also doesn't believe Sandy Hook happened. Okay. I mean, look, they intimidated Alex Jones into thinking that people really died in Sandy Hook. Now explain how that happened.

Yeah. Yeah, I understand. I still have- Sandy Hook was intimidated that nobody was killed. None. Yeah. I wouldn't disagree with you on Sandy Hook, but I certainly think that people were killed here.

It's absolutely- That's also insane. That's an even more insane thing to think. That is an even more insane thing to think that, look, if you believe both were fake, at least that makes a certain logic. But if you're like, well, obviously this one is real, but Sandy Hook was fake, that's insane.

Well, actually, that actually works towards your theory that Steve Pachanik is just crazy, because then at least his sort of mental illness, schizophrenic break that he's having has clearly delineated lines. Right. And that is everything is fake. Right, right, right.

Whereas David Knight is clearly not crazy. He's a liar because he's being like, well, I don't think we can use this one. I think that if we say this is fake, we're gonna look real bad. People have started to pay attention to us. Right. Right, right, right.

We used to fly onto the radar and just antagonize people and make them scared. Right. Now, people like late night shows make fun of us. Right. I don't want the world to find out who I am. Right, right. I saw what happened when they...

David Knight! I learned what happened when people realized Owen Troyer exists when he got made fun of by a little girl. Do you know what's crazy? What? I finally saw his name in print. I swear to God, I have thought you have been saying Owen Troyer this whole time.

Troyer. And it's Troyer. It is. Fuckin' figure out how to speak English, Dan. One of the best tweets that I think I've ever put out was that Owen Troyer is dangerously close to people knowing who he is. When he got made fun of by that little girl,

everyone just laughed, but they don't realize like he's an integral part of Alex Jones' operation. And he's also a monster. Yeah, he has his own fucking show. Anyway, let's get through the end of this clip. Well, I don't think that he was intimidated. I think he's looking at this. I think he backed off of it a bit

because when you look at these events, it's very hard to determine exactly what happened. But I certainly believe that Sandy Hook was a full-blown false flag, but I believe the people that I'd hear based on what I've seen, I think there's a lot of witnesses to this event. But thank you for joining us, Steve Pachett.

So he just shuts it down. I personally think Sandy Hook was a false flag. But there were a lot of witnesses who saw this going on. That doesn't make a goddamn lick of sense. That's fucking insane. It's not good. How many witnesses is enough witnesses? About a grip of them.

He's got a grip of witnesses there. A key grip or a best boy of them? Yeah, just, you know, a stack of witnesses. Who knows? It's a stupid line to draw and everyone's dumb. And anyway, I went back and I listened to this. I was like, Steve is crazy. He's lying and crazy.

That's why we can't find the line between which one it is. It's because he's both. I think he's gone. I think this is a more stringent. Completely off the reservation. Yeah, this one's out there. Well, we know that Steve Pachett is a really important part

of Alex Jones' worldview and his support for Trump. We know that. But I don't think we've done a good enough job of exploring that. So now in the afterglow of Alex Jones realizing that Steve Pachett has probably been misleading him this entire time. I don't think he's doing that kind of work, actually.

Alex isn't wrestling with that. But in saying that Steve Pachett is running a disinformation campaign on David Knight's show, I thought it would be at everyone's best interests for us to go back and explore the last two appearances of Steve Pachett in December of 2015, when Alex Jones made the change. Now, on our last episode from 2015,

we talked about how Alex had become fully convinced to go with Trump by the last Republican debate on December 15th. And I think that we, at our date off a tiny bit, I think he was already fairly on board by then, but he was presenting it as, now I have no reservations about him. Because I went back to a day that will live in infamy,

December 7th, 2015, the anniversary of Pearl Harbor, which is very fitting. Oh no. Oh no. Steve Pachett makes an appearance on the December 7th, 2015 show. Uh-huh. And this is like the kind of stuff that Alex,

you get to watch him throughout the rest of this episode getting fooled in real time. Do you know what's crazy? What's that? Pearl Harbor did not happen. Oh my God. False flag. Not enough witnesses.

Do they not realize that false flags still happen? Right. Like people still die. The term comes from like ships that would put different flags on it to make the people where you were going think that Exactly. It was someone else.

And then they would kill everybody. It's from privateers. Back whenever it was state sponsored pirates, essentially. So if like, if 9-11 was a false flag, the tower still did go down. Right. Like we didn't all get fucking misted, like mesmerized and turned into people.

Like this isn't fucking men in black, okay? No, no, no, no. You're not putting a giant on the, okay, it's men in black too. I apologize. And to make the argument that Alex does about the Las Vegas attack, one of the things he's saying,

his mantra now is the target is the motive. That's something he keeps repeating over and over again, saying that these white Christian conservatives, cause he's stereotyping country music fans, they are the ones who are the target, obviously the motive was he wanted to kill white Christian conservative types. Okay.

So that's what he's saying. And he's making the argument that that must mean that it's liberals and globalists who are behind, you know, the Antifa were behind it because they would want, they would be the ones who would want to kill conservative Christian white people. And to that end, I would make the argument,

if you had a crazy conservative type, and I'm not saying that this is the case, but if you had a crazy militia type of guy, maybe someone who listens to Alex Jones and loves the idea of false flags and understands who gets blamed for certain things, wouldn't it make sense for that person then to target their own people?

He says that the Democrats are gonna do that to gain sympathy. He says that the Democrats are gonna start false flagging each other in order to blame the Patriots. So using that same logic, doesn't it make sense that he should consider the possibility that some unhinged militia person attacked some group that would appear

to be white Christian conservatives in order to pin it on Antifa? I'm not saying that's the case, but using Alex Jones's stupid logic that makes as much sense as anything he's saying. Right. It drives me nuts. Here's the problem.

It's crazy. That's batshit. Right. But also, we live in a comic book now, so that might as well. That's far more, like I'm far more possibly, no, I know, I know. Because that's fucking insane.

However, in the world that we live in, I'm at a place where it's like, a year ago, that's fucking crazy, Dan. Now it's like, there's a 12% possibility that did happen exactly the way you described it. I think it's lower than that. But like, the only point I'm trying to make is that Alex is like,

you know, he ascribes all sorts of nefarious motives to one side and then doesn't think that, oh, the people listening to me might think, oh, that's a good idea. And then go do it. But that's the entire point of, so the reason that, Again, I'm not saying that's what happened.

But look, we're getting, also, that would be a delight if you were like, this is obviously the truth. Like if we just go, if we just start going conspiracy theory beyond Alex Jones, that would be a delight. I would enjoy that just as much. I was starting to flirt with the idea of pretend,

like my dad went to Harvard for his dissertation, okay, his doctorate. No, anyways. When I was growing up, when I was super young, we lived in Cambridge and in Boston because he was going to get his doctorate in religious studies. And one of the things I was thinking about

was trying to create an alternate fake reality wherein we were actually there because they were doing tests on me in order to create someone who could take down Alex Jones one day. Jesus, Dan. I was thinking about trying to do something like that. And the idea of you say we should go crazy with just lies, I was like,

I mean, that's an idea. But did you succeed? Not yet. I mean, it's entirely possible you did. Who knows? Look, all time exists in one moment, but. It's true. Space time.

Yeah, it's been declassified. Of course. No, but you're discounting the fact that if Alex did know that that's what could have happened and would have happened, then his job then is to pretend that it's not what happened. And it couldn't be what happened. Exactly. Yeah.

Do you see what's going on there? No, I know. The more layers we dig deep. It's a Chycom nesting doll. It's impossible to get anywhere because you're just walking in circles. See, the thing with that is, were that to be true, we only make Alex smarter and smarter and smarter.

Right. Whereas we should be going the exact opposite direction. I think we are. And these clips will play that out. He's not a very smart man. But the first thing that I wanna do is I wanna play this clip. This is from the December 7th, 2015 show.

Cause Alex always talks about how it's come out that the United States funds ISIS. Of course. And I didn't realize exactly where he was getting this from and he makes it clear in this clip and it's a problem. I started seeing the last few years though, this whole Islamic state thing and more, really being allowed to recruit, being allowed to build up,

being funded by Saudi Arabia, we and others exposed it. Now it's blown up and I have trouble even knowing where it's all going. I don't think the establishment knows. I think it's out of control. That's why the former head of defense intelligence has come out three times now on television in the last two months and said,

we were ordered to fund ISIS in Al Qaeda. Consciously, it's a horrible idea. I don't know what the president's thinking. Do you know who that is? Uh, I... Rob Steele? Michael Flynn. No.

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Of course. So. Naturally. You know what, here's the interesting thing. And by the way, I listened to that interview that he's talking about. It was on Al Jazeera.

He doesn't actually say that. This is Alex Jones embellishing on lies that Mike Flynn, the guy who got fired from the director of national intelligence position, made. Right. So, it's not good. And he was currently working for Erdogan at that point when he's making these claims.

He's actively an agent for a foreign power who is hostile and a dictatorship. Of course. But, I don't necessarily think that discounts his points. Interesting. Okay. No, I mean... We did fund Al Qaeda.

So, it is not beyond the realm of possibility to imagine that in its early stages, we funded ISIS. That's entirely possible. Well, before... Furthermore, regardless... Before they were the Islamic state. Right. Before they were an entity that was actively

international terrorizing. Right. The Saudis almost certainly fund ISIS. Probably. There is no doubt in my mind about that. Most likely. Furthermore... But the bullshit about us funding Al Qaeda

and stuff like that is it's a completely different generation. It's a different time. It's not like we funded Al Qaeda in 99 or 2000. No, but that's... We funded them when they were fighting the Russians. Again, that doesn't necessarily discount what he's saying though. Right. I'm dealing more with that.

Or perhaps more with what Alex says he's saying. Right. And then there's also just the fact that we are constantly making ISIS stronger simply by having our dumb ass president. No, that's true. They are recruiting entirely based off that. And it's not like they needed it.

Obama drone-striked the hell out of enough people where they're like, fuck it, we'll join this. That's a perfect recruitment plan. Yeah, exactly. All of our foreign policy decisions in effect end up helping ISIS. Yeah, of course. ISIS does not mean that we created ISIS intentionally.

No. It just means that maybe in the same way that like when a car or even a pill to some extent, there is a negative side effect that's found out that's going to cause X amount of trouble. Right. And you could either recall it or pay people off who it happens to, businesses.

Capitalism! Right. They just decide that, hey, we're gonna bite the bullet on this and just get sued. It's cheaper to settle out of court than it is to change it. Exactly. In the same way, I think there's probably a foreign policy equivalent to this.

It's like, we're gonna kill a bunch of terrorists, but we're also gonna create a ton more. I think there's probably an equation that people do, and I disagree with their math probably, but that's probably the decision. I think it's exactly what they want. Look, nothing makes the gun companies more money than whenever a mass shooting happens.

Right. Bump stocks got sold out immediately. Immediately. In the same way, it makes perfect sense that nothing makes military contractors more money than more terrorists. And nothing makes our GOP congressmen more electable than pretending that they're fighting against terrorists.

So they have to create them. America creates its own enemies by being fucking stupid. That is a big part of it. That's what we are. So again, I don't necessarily discount what Michael Flynn says in that regard because first off, who gives a shit, he's going to jail. Probably.

He knows that. He has to know that at this point. Seems bad. So his goal is either to be pardoned or to fucking go all out, right? So why not? And this is in December 2015 though, that he's saying these things.

We gotta remember that we're back in the past. Right. This is before he's even been named Trump's national security guy or anything like that. He had to have known he was going to jail at that point. There was back room dealings. There's undoubtedly like connections that have already been forming.

Roger Stone and him have been talking and shit like that. There had to have been a point where he was like, ooh, I'm doing a lot of illegal shit right now. And I am not doing a good job covering it up. It is crazy. I've gotten away with it this far. Yeah, exactly. You ever have those moments where you sit down

and you're like, fuck, I should be in prison. I have committed massive international fraud. Yeah. He's playing with house money. The fact that he's not in jail at this point. Right. But be that as it may. I don't depend on all that.

I get what you're saying. I don't disagree, but I don't wholly agree either. But it's immaterial to what we need to get through today. Fair. We're going to talk a lot about Steve Pachennick. He comes in in this December 7th, 2015 episode to shit on Obama. Uh-huh.

But I have asked repeatedly our intelligence community to stand up and stop the president of the United States, be it Bush, Cheney, Clinton, or Obama. Obama has been a disaster from day one. His history has been nothing but a contrived absurdity about a CIA operative born of a CIA grandmother and mother and grandfather who had no background, no experience whatsoever, and was voted in without any vetting

by the Secret Service, the National Security, or any organization in the United States. You and I could not have become president in the United States the way Obama did. Yeah, we would have to be elected to the state center. While I can stand down issue with the killing of Osama Ben-Lan, which never occurred. So another thing that was there.

So literally, Steve Pachennick does not believe anything is real. He might be a nihilist. We believe in nothing. Yeah, I mean, or just like a solipsist. He wasn't there at what didn't happen. Well, in 2015, he has to know that he's full of complete bullshit on that one.

Like, there's no way that he could even pull up any evidence to support those dumb bullshit claims. Well, the idea that Obama wasn't vetted at all is nonsense. Insane. That's complete nonsense. He was already, he's been in government. And not only that, like, look, Obama was a not good president. He was a.

There have been worse. There, oh, absolutely. But it's not like he was, it's not like he was up there with FDR or nothing like that. No. And you could make a very compelling argument that his response and his indecision in regards to so many things is the reason that we have Trump.

You know, he was a huge proponent of neoliberalism, which has destroyed the world. So the idea that he is CIA operative and Pachennick wants our intelligence community to have more control over who becomes president is not good. Yeah. That's very not good. And the fact that he's saying these things and Alex

is just sort of like, you're a genius is kind of troubling because they don't really unpack that idea that these deep state people should have control over that. Right. Which seems like something Alex would be against. But furthermore, the idea that we want our intelligence community doing anything is very scary when you start to consider how utterly incompetent and stupid

they all are. Yeah. If you think about, look, we should have probably killed Fidel Castro 60 times. And they failed every single time. Like with cartoonish Bonn villain plans where they're like, we're going to put poison in his drink. And it's like, what are you guys doing?

It was a better time, though. That was our intelligence community. That's more fun. That is our intelligence community. It's more fun. I know. But look, all I'm saying is if Putin can kill people in the UK easily, our intelligence community is terrible at this.

But I, fine. Yeah. I don't have a rebuttal to that. I was just thinking it's probably easy to kill anybody anywhere, quite frankly. But they're bad at it. So the idea that they're all of a sudden successfully pulling off Las Vegas,

the biggest mass shooting in history, boggles my mind. There's a difference between a dissident who's in a different country and ahead of state. Do you mean an ambassador? Sure. There's a difference between an ambassador and the president or whatever position Fidel Castro had. I mean, if you're killing people,

you're killing people in a different country. Yeah. But still, an ambassador doesn't have as much security as, say, Fidel Castro. I understand. But I don't know. I still think it could be done. There's shades of it.

And if you're trying to bring in the idea of Las Vegas stuff, like that would be not that hard to pull off if you were a secret clandestine organization. Really? Well, look, I'm not saying that that was the case because I don't believe it was. If you were some sort of secret organization that has unlimited funding, the idea of a lone wolf

killing type of thing, that doesn't seem like it would be too hard to pull off. OK. So you're a JFK truther? No. Back. It was Bush. And to the left.

It was Bush. It was Bush. Yeah. It was Bush who killed JFK? Go watch Dark Legacy. Now, that's my favorite conspiracy theory yet. It was HW Bush. Who wouldn't become vice president for 20 more years?

But he was in charge of the CIA at the time. That's true. But come on. I don't believe that's necessarily true, but it's an interesting theory. Anyway. All right. I buy it.

Speaking of interesting theories, we've heard that Steve Pachennik doesn't believe same. I mean, fuck it. It might as well have been Hoover. He probably could have pulled it off. Probably. Although he couldn't even get MLK to kill himself. So then maybe he was incompetent, too.

You're so frustrated with me. Sandy Hook. You love. Sandy Hook. You love. You love Cthulhu because you just get to talk. I like a balance. I like having you here to have conversation with,

but I don't fucking like every single sentence interrupted. I mean, look, I got to get a word in edgewise. You've got plenty words in edgewise. Hey, take any edgewise word you want. But when I say in this next clip, generally that's a cue that I'm about to say something. I'm sorry. You're just moving along pretty quick.

We're fucking 35 minutes in already. I'm not moving along quick. We're four clips in. All right. I apologize. So in this next clip, we found out earlier that Steve Pachennik does not believe that Sandy Hook happened in 2017.

See what he said in 2015. President of the United States was created false issues. And not only in Benghazi, not only in Osama bin Laden, but in Sandy Hook. The way he says Osama bin Laden there is kind of like a political Don D'Amello. They go Osama bin Laden. Anyway.

Sandy Hook was par excellence, the description of a non-existent killing of a so-called Asperger's individual who supposedly killed 22 kids and several adults with a lot of machinery and a lot of heavy equipment. It was nonsense. So he's pretty consistent. He said that Sandy Hook was fake for a long time.

And Alex didn't push back on that at all, just sort of accepted it and like, yeah, moving along. So the reason that I'm pulling this episode and then one other one when we're talking about Steve Pachennik's role in this whole thing is because it becomes abundantly clear when you listen to this December 7th appearance. And then we're going to listen to the December 29th appearance.

You really start to get the, all the pieces come into play about Steve manipulating Alex. And there's a couple moments where Alex, I think he sees through it a little bit. And then he just squashes those fears or like, I'm being fucked with. OK, now. There's a couple moments that'll be very clear to you.

What is the end game, though, for Pachennik to go full on with Sandy Hook truth or ism? You know, he's manipulating Alex, we got that. That's all he's, he's just sowing chaos. Well, he's just a fucking horseman of the apocalypse. I think that populations are much easier to control and they're scared and when they are distrustful of authority and that sort of thing.

And so if you want to, I mean, Steve Pachennik writes books and stuff like that that he sells. I'm sure there's some interest in that. But then also just pushing through, you know what? I don't know. Couldn't it be? That's a good question. I don't know, because it doesn't seem like

it's a purely financial motive. It doesn't seem like it's, it's not clear. He has a vested interest in Trump getting in, but he doesn't seem like he's not as much of a bigot as a lot of Alex's other cronies. Yeah, but what does he get it like? So Trump did get elected. What is he getting now that he would have gotten like?

Stolen valor a little bit? So this is just him wanting to get a hand job? Like, what are we talking about here? Well, but I mean, if you're going to make the argument that you think he's crazy, then the idea that like, he's crazy enough to just want everyone to think that he's changed the world, that could, it could be just ego.

That's entirely possible. I don't know, the end game isn't as clear as it is about people like Larry Nichols. Like Larry Nichols is really easy to see through. He wants to destroy the Clintons. That's basically, that's the primary motivation for him. He's kind of boring in that regard.

Well, he's not boring in terms of the witch stuff. No, that's true. But then there's other people who it's clear that like, okay, Trump needs to get in because it will aid a rollback of civil rights. It will aid a rollback of taxes on the rich and stuff like that. Yeah.

Steve is, it's not as clear. No. I think he's playing a really interesting game. But yeah, I don't know why. The why is not clear. Maybe, maybe. Is it, is it really just he wants? So regardless of financial gain, which I mean,

he's going to get some, the more he appears on these shows, I imagine. Is it really just he wants attention? Like, is he just another? He's lonely. Is he just another narcissist? It's possible. But I think also he might also be being manipulated

in some ways. Like, I don't think that he's as manipulated as Alex. But over the course of this, I think you'll start to see little indications that it's possible that other characters we know are working a lot of angles. By whom? What are you talking about?

If Steve Pachanick is getting manipulated, by who? Roger Stone. Now we're giving Roger Stone that much credit? Let's listen to a few more clips and see where we land. All right, all right. I agree that it's very difficult to say exactly what the motivation or the end game is. I think it might be possible that we could sum it up

as a drastic change in US foreign policy. Okay. And I think that he might have some softness towards Russia. He might be a pro-Russia guy. So it's entirely possible that that's a piece of it. I don't know. Let's listen to these clips and see if it develops. Okay, all right.

So in this next clip, we see just the classic Steve Pachanick style flattery that is indicative that he's about to get Alex into a narrative. It's like, hey, you need to listen. I'm gonna lull you into a sense of security with this ass-licking. For me, it's signify, it's called a rental.

Let me get to the point to the American public. You are important because basically, you have been the game changer in the entire business of the media. Now I've known the media very well from the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, Holland, and the Rodriguez. Basically, their job is to get ratings and to get money for whatever content they produce.

Your job, which I didn't know in the beginning, was to assess the facts that were out there. And thanks to your own intuitive knowledge and sense of righteousness, you went on to say, okay, let me hear what the alternatives are. And you've continued with it. And in that sense, to me, you represented the American public.

The public I knew, the people who worked hard, the people who had to earn a living, the people who went to jobs on a daily basis, not the politicians like Hillary. So in that clip, he's saying that you have changed the game. You are responsible for a change in the game because you're not like these assholes. You're the voice of the underheard people.

You are the voice of true America, which is exactly what Alex wants to hear. That's exactly the sort of thing that gets him hard. Yeah, he's a patriot. So you've taken some notes there, what do you got? I just, like, is he in a certain sense, actually a game changer in that regard?

Alex? Yeah. Yeah, unfortunately. Yeah, right? Like in the same way that Breitbart and Drudge and all of those guys, and of course after the Buzzfeed article that once again proved Milo is a Nazi,

which fucking suck all the dicks, guys. Yeah, we got some real blowbacks. I fucking nailed it. Got some real blowback for calling that one early. Trust me when I say somebody's a Nazi. Jordan screamed about it, and he didn't even know that one of Milo Yiannopoulos' email passwords

was crystal-knocked, or the other one was Night of Long Knives 1920. Now, that one could have been ironic. Yeah, I bet. I bet. That's a long password. So if we are going to pull that direction, I don't understand why it is,

or I suppose absolutely. Puchenek has to tell him that it is everybody else's looking for money. He has to tell him that, because Alex has to believe that he is getting this money under duress. Like it always has to be to keep the doors open. It can't be because Alex is a multimillionaire.

It can't be because of that. It has to be because he's a patriot, because that will fulfill his narrative. Now, if Puchenek is doing that on purpose as opposed to believing that, the next thing that he says has to be fucking insane, right? Somewhat, I mean, you wanna hear it?

Yeah. Okay. And what happened is you allowed a Trump to come in thanks to Mr. Roger Stone, whom I've known about since the Reagan administration. And he was brilliant enough to say, you know what, we're gonna legitimize the people who've been out there

called the truthers and the wackos, the 20 million of us, who basically are saying, Bush, Cheney, Obama, you're wrong. Not only are you wrong, you're criminal. Well, to show your inside baseball, I didn't know you knew Stone. I knew Upstone.

I didn't know how much high-level stuff he was involved in. I mean, elections in the third world, folks, put two plus two together. But he's really a really great guy. I'm trying to get him back into town next week. And... We're gonna get back to the clip, but did you notice where he's like,

I didn't know that you knew Stone. Yeah. And immediately after this clip, Steve is like, now I don't know him personally. Yeah. Because I think he's starting... He's known him since the Reagan administration, but he's known of him in that regard.

Well, but I think that Steve is starting to, in this clip, he's starting to realize that Alex is starting to put some pieces together and he needs to distance himself from Roger Stone. Because the two of them are playing Alex from different angles. That's clearly what's happening. Okay.

But they're not working in concert yet? Yes, they are. You think they're working in concert? Yes, but Alex can't suspect that. Because if he does, then he'll realize that they're fucking with him. So... That they're using him as a media puppet.

But so you're saying that both Stone... I'm making... I'm making... ...and Pachanik are coordinating. Yes. Okay. I know that to be... They've admitted it since then.

Okay. They have a group called the 45 Group. Yeah, but that was... That sounds like a silly dumb thing, though. It probably is, but it's real. It's a thing that Roger Stone and Steve Pachanik, who knows what other people are a part of, they get together and they strategize

and did so during the campaign. So, obviously, Roger Stone and Steve Pachanik do know each other at this point. Of course. I refuse to believe that that's possible, that that's not the case. I'm making some assertions that are based on some of the later clips, too.

Right. So don't, like... You know, don't push back too hard. But at the same time, I understand your critiques. Yeah. And they're fair. But you... Well, you know I'm always gonna come at this

from the Occam's Razor perspective. Well, what's a simpler explanation than the two of them know each other? Like, wait. I'm talking more about the coordinating together. Let's finish this clip. Okay. And the behind the scenes stuff I learned,

Trump knows a lot more obviously than the public knows. And Stone was basically talking about how many really good people in the government are basically saying what you're saying, that none of them were ever perfect. But they now realize this country's gonna be brought down if we don't turn things around and stop this hijacking of the government

by select groups at the top. I agree with you. So, what we get the interpretation heard a word of that. Of course not. He was just like, I agree with you. No, the only thing... Moving on. The only thing he's concerned about,

because immediately what he says after that is, I don't know, Roger Stone. Yeah. That's the thing that he's concerned about is pushing back against that. Because what you heard there at the end of that clip of Alex talking, is something he will revisit later.

And it is a realization that Roger Stone, behind the scenes, has been telling him verbatim the same stuff Steve Pochenik has been telling him. Okay. That, to me, indicates coordination. That's... Yeah, that's much more compelling than what we just saw right there.

So, my theory is that Steve Pochenik, I mean, he's been a long time guest on Alex Jones' show. Roger Stone has not. Roger Stone was a part of the Trump campaign and then left in August 2015, in order to try and create a groundswell of Nazi supposedly not connected to Trump media attention.

Yeah, Nazi. So, he, well, there's that. Yeah. I mean, certainly from that Breitbart article, it's tough to get away from that. Hard to say. So, what he does is he has connections with Steve Pochenik, he knows Steve Pochenik,

and he's like, you and I need to work together and we're gonna flip Alex Jones. Right. We're going to get him on board. So, Steve Pochenik, months before this, this December episode, he came on and said that me and some other people have convinced Trump to run for president

because he is the one who can save the country. He planted that seed a couple months ago in Alex's head because of interactions that he's had with Roger Stone. The people that he's talking to behind the scenes are Roger Stone and ostensibly other people who are members of this 45 group. Right. That is my belief.

Okay. Then, a little bit of time goes on and I imagine, you know, Steve Pochenik is spitting the narratives that Roger Stone will end up saying once he shows up. Roger Stone shows up and he's like, oh yeah. He says the exact same things that trusted Steve Pochenik, say, and Alex Jones immediately is like, well, it must be true.

You guys can't be connected. You say you don't know each other. When in the meantime, it's just a perfectly elaborate, perfectly laid out charade that now in 2017 has collapsed because Steve Pochenik has said that the Las Vegas shooting, no one died in it. And because everyone's paying attention to Info Wars, or they're not.

I just don't, like, I suppose it's just, I see these two guys as being fucking stupid. So the idea that they can successfully pull off this scam. What's stupid about, I don't see anything stupid about them. Listen to what they say. They're fucking stupid people. No, because there's intent behind the things that sound stupid.

Uh-huh. That's the thing that needs to be taken into consideration. Like if you or I said it, or if you walked down the street and you saw some guy in like a, I don't know, Hillary for prison shirt and he's saying it, he's stupid. But the progenitor of the information is not stupid. They're doing it for a reason. Propagandists and conspiracy theorists very rarely

exist in a vacuum. No, of course. They're not espousing the dumb theories that they espouse for no reason. There's something behind all of them. Right, but they're essentially con men. So like are they, and con men's motivations tend towards the selfish.

Sure. It's not as though they are doing this for some sort of larger good. Like they don't give a fuck about the country. No. They don't give a fuck about America. But they know that their rhetoric is very powerful. Right.

So you always present it as I care about the country. But then do they, do they just want, do they want power? Do they want influence? Do they want money? Probably. Do they like, and how does this help them gain this? This is what I don't understand. Well, look at the more, the more,

so Roger Stone just wants attention. No. I think all Roger, I think all Roger Stone wants is for people to look at him and say, look at, he's got a tattoo of Nixon on his fucking back. All he wants is attention. I think that that's a big part of it, but you have to consider that, you know,

he's been in business with Paul Manafort. As Roger, or as Alex even slips in there, he's been involved in third world country elections. He has interests that are not abundantly clear without digging too deep into them. Right. I think that probably they all stand to gain an amazing amount of money through Trump being president.

They all know that they can use him. But that's such a convoluted Rube Goldberg machine of making money. Well, maybe some of them had their backs to the wall. Maybe there was no other option. People like Mike Flynn probably didn't have another option. Right. People like Paul Manafort in over his head

probably didn't have another option. I don't, I don't buy that. There are so many other options. There are so many other, they already have influence and name recognition within DC. You owe millions of dollars to a foreign power that wants their money back. What do you do?

You can influence trade in order to get your debt forgiven. Wait, Stone and Manafort, oh man. Manafort does. Really? Yes. Didn't you, there was an article that came out recently about how the- I didn't know he owed money.

I thought he just made money off of that. The prevailing theory is because he owed a bunch of money. I can't remember the guy's name that he owes a bunch of money to, but it was involved with that Devretka guy. I can't remember how to say that Russian name, but he's the guy who the emails showed that he was offering private briefings to.

And the prevailing theory was that money is super easy to trace and so he was offering these things in exchange for debt forgiveness because that would be impossible to trace. So there are situations like that. I don't know the financial status of Steve Pachennick. I don't know what he has his fingers in the pies of. But you have to assume with a lot of these people

that is what's going on. They're desperate. Right, I just, it's so hard for me to jump full force into this because again, it sounds like a fucking comic book. Like this does not sound like it would happen in reality. Now then again, of course, Trump is the president so fucking who knows what could happen,

but it seems just so insane to me that that would actually happen in real life. Just because at the same time these guys seem so, I don't know, either they're amazing at their jobs or they're terrible at their jobs. There's no middle ground with these fucking idiots. Right. So here's the article about Paul Manafort.

A very effective way to conceal payment. We now know more about why Manafort offered private briefings to a Russian oligarch. Paul Manafort offered private briefings on the Trump campaign to a Russian oligarch in hopes of resolving a business dispute, a new report says. The dispute erupted as a result

of a failed 2008 business deal. Manafort's representatives say the offer of private briefings never materialized, which is irrelevant in terms of his motivations. Former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort offered private briefings about the campaign to Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska in hopes of resolving a years long business dispute,

sources told Bloomberg on Wednesday. The dispute stemmed from a failed business deal the two pursued in 2008, involving a Ukrainian TV company called Black Sea Cable, according to Bloomberg. Legal complaints filed by Deripaska's representatives in the Cayman Islands in 2014, say he gave Paul Manafort $19 million to invest

in the company, but the project fell through and Manafort all but disappeared without paying back Deripaska. Deripaska's representatives were openly accusing Paul Manafort of fraud and pledging to recover the money from him as recently as early 2016, according to the Associated Press. But they reportedly backed off on accusations

shortly after Manafort joined the campaign in the spring. So you have situations like this- That seems pretty open and shut then. Or at least it's fucking, you need a good excuse if it's not the truth. No, that's obvious. That's obviously what happened. Right, right.

Any other conclusion is outside of the pale. It would be baffling, another conclusion. So what I'm saying is that we have these things that are starting to come up. And who knows, like I said, I don't know Steve Puchenik's game in it as a whole. I don't know exactly what Roger Stone's hand is in it. But there are, I mean, the lifting of sanctions on Russia

in terms of oil would have netted billions of dollars. Of course, of course. So on that end, they could have had a piece of that. That's possible. Or just, I mean, it's pretty clear to me based on Steve Puchenik's things that he said, he has a soft spot for Russia and likes them. So the idea of being able to work with them more,

not being illegal, that might be his motivation. I don't know. I just can't jump on board with a global conspiracy whenever we're fighting against a global conspiracy. I don't think it's a global conspiracy. Somebody who believes in globalists. I think it's very localized. The whole thing is just part of another larger chain though.

Like if you're going to say that Stone and Puchenik are both manipulating Alex in coordination with each other, then you have to get into the larger group of 45. Do they all know about this? It's not a group of 45, it's a 45 group. There's not 45 members. Because group of 45 makes it sound like there's 45 members. I have no idea how many people are in it.

All right. But they've talked about it openly. This is a kill bill volume one, the crazy 88 situation. There better be 88 members. They've talked about it openly. Yeah. So then you have to say that, well, that entire group is probably, at the very least,

had a conversation about it, or they reported on it. You've got to assume Flynn and Sessions are probably in there too. So now you have Flynn and Sessions who are both coordinating also with multiple different governments. Well, they have been. Yeah, exactly.

They have been. So now we're dealing with a global conspiracy. But you're really not. And I just don't see how they can successfully pull that off. You're not in the same way as the globalist conspiracy that Alex projects. Because that involves poisoning the water and trying to take away our virility and stuff like that.

That's the stuff that's bullshit. And this is just making a shit ton of money for them. All of these things, the motivation is very clearly just selfishness and self-empowerment. Yeah. And that is a global conspiracy that's based entirely on that makes more sense than otherwise. Still doesn't make a lot of sense, but it makes more sense.

Is it really that easy? What? It's very frustrating to me. Is that what you can do? Can you actually just do a global conspiracy once? If you get enough connections, is it all of a sudden like, hey, let's make a billion dollars off of sanctions lifting by electing the worst president

in the history of the world that takes forever that we couldn't possibly have done that barely happened in the first place? And a couple of us are flaming bigots, so we'll just distract everybody with all sorts of weird taking away birth control and outlawing 20-week abortions and shit like that. We'll get everyone hot and bothered and distracted

with that while we rake in millions. So, and then the desperation. Or have our millions forgiven and dead. It has to be like, if you're going to put that motive in there, it has to be desperation because their percentage of success had to have been astronomical. Well.

Imagine if our media actually functioned even slightly. But that's part of your calculations. Right. But even a little bit. If they had given Trump a billion in free advertising instead of two billion in free advertising, would we still be in the same place? I don't know.

You know? I don't know. I probably, I think so. Do you think it was inevitable? I think so. You think so? Probably. You think the Trump thing from start to finish was inevitable?

Maybe. I almost, I can see a situation where that's correct as well. I think we'll know more as time goes on. But I think it's entirely possible. Yeah. I mean, in terms of Cambridge Analytica, in terms of the micro-targeting of Pivola Shreds, in terms of these Russian companies buying weird ads

that seem to have to do with our domestic issues. Who would have guessed? Trying to cause people to be racist. Right, right, right. Or trying to inflame people's racism towards Trump. Or to get them towards Trump by inflaming it. I think that a lot of those things do make it much more inevitable.

I think that there certainly was a way that people could have fought back against it more effectively, but everyone was too busy fighting. Yeah, I just don't like that narrative because that is the people with information defeating the people without it. And I just don't like that worldview.

Or in this case, it's the people, yeah. Insanely rich defeating the poor, which makes more sense, but the way that they did it was such an effective, targeted propaganda campaign that I just don't wanna believe that people are that good at something like that. Well, I think a lot of people are.

And you gotta consider that Roger Stone is one of the sleaziest players in the game. He's the Ric Flair of politics. Right. So he's dirty as hell. And why would you not think that that would be his modus operandi? Yeah, of course.

Why would you not think that pulling off something really fucked up and sleazy is exactly what he's all about? Like, I know that he and Trump have been friends for a long time and all that, and that explains sort of his proximity, but his involvement implies much worse. Like the idea that he was actively involved in stuff.

If I'm going to do an autopsy, my first kill as far, not kill, I mean, my first like suspect or the prime mover, so to speak, is Mercer. And I think this will go down in history as the first time that artificial intelligence beat humanity. That's what I think.

Is it blue, beat Kasparov, beat blue? That's not artificial intelligence. It couldn't improvise in that regard. Fine. I do think that Cambridge Analytica is the secret. I think that's one of the biggest pieces and the Mercer's behind all sorts of shit like this. But at the same time, I think that,

and I would not put it past the idea that the 45 group might even be affiliated with him in some way, Robert Mercer. I mean, if we're gonna go against a guy who thinks Soros is behind everything, I'm not gonna insist that Mercer is behind everything. However, I do have the inklings of an episode of Dr. Who wherein they go back in time

and they realize that Mercer is actually just a robot who is being controlled by the silence or whatever. Well, I mean, everyone, if you haven't at this point, go read that BuzzFeed article about the emails that leaked from Breitbart about Milo Unopolis and his connection and whitewashing of Nazi and white supremacist sources. And then go read the Guardian article

about Cambridge Analytica and their intense, intense campaign. And put those two together and realize that they're the same people. And consider that they are working in allegiance and in concert with Alex Jones and Infowars. It's just slightly disconnected. Cause I mean, look at it, Milo's come on Alex's show.

They're friends, they're buddies. He loves Bannon, he thinks Bannon's a genius. On a recent episode, he's talking about how the fourth turn is coming. That's a big piece of Bannon's ideology. So like all of this is connected. See, I started off with a whole like global conspiracies are dumb and now I'm right in a place

where it's like all of these outlets, all of these media outlets are connected and creating this loop. And they're all funded by rich old white billionaires. And Betsy Davis, who can go fucking hang herself. Sure. I hope she dies. I really hope she dies.

Well, I have some good news. Like, like Scalise. So, and that last clip, one of the things that we lost track of. Yes. That was really important is that Steve Pachanik knows that Alex Jones got information from Roger Stone. And that Roger Stone got him the appearance with Trump.

Right. There's no indication that he should know that. Alex has never said that on air. And the fact that Steve knows it means that he knows. So that suggests that Roger has told Steve. So little, Or at least somebody in the, there is a middleman.

Right. There is a connection between the two. So now we've had Steve butter up Alex. He's had him, he's flattered him a bit. And now he flatters him a little bit more. And in this clip, he does something very intentional. And we'll talk about it on the other end. This cannot continue.

We do not have a Congress, a president, or a military and intelligence that is viable and concerned about our national security. And that's where America has to have the American revolution in a way that's productive and constructive. Why you are important and why Trump was important is you are the game changer. You are the expression of that American revolution

in the 21st century to allow the truth to come out. St. Augustine said, don't worry about the truth. Let it do what it does best to destroy those who distort the truth. So what he does there is first of all, it's interesting that he says that why you are important and Trump was important using the past tense for Trump is very strange.

I think it might have been an accident. But the other thing is that he inexorably ties Alex and Trump together as being the forces of this new revolution. So at this point, Alex is still not really, like he hasn't come out gung-ho for Trump. Right. But if Pachenek is putting the two of them together

as being proponents of this American revolution, this 1776, 2.0, that puts into Alex's brain, we are of the same ilk. Yeah, yeah, we're bras. So I mean, like December 1st of 2015 is when Trump came on his show. And that is seven days before, oh, I'm sorry, December 2nd is when he came on.

He knew on December 1st. On the show, he was talking about how I got a big guest for tomorrow. It's gonna be big. I don't wanna tell you who it is, wink. But then on the third, he goes so far as to still say that he loves Rand Paul, he supports Rand Paul, but that Trump is okay.

And it was cool that he came on his show. So four days- Well, that's a false flag. Four days before this, he is still saying the same stuff that we'd already heard. And even after Trump had been on, he didn't go full on. I don't think that was actually Trump. I think that was a crisis actor.

It could have been. Check his ear lobes. Yeah, exactly. So Steve is needing to connect them even further in order for this to really, this point to get home. And that's the job he's doing on this December 7th episode. He's tying them together. Your fates are entwined.

You are the game changer that will help bring the American Revolution to pass. That's fucked up. That's really hard to, like, it's hard to hear that and be like, I can't do it. What's really interesting to me about that is it seems as though everybody, or not everybody, but everybody who's trying to influence things

and everybody who is looking at things from a, you know, I don't know. If you wanna say that Pachennik is rational, he is making the same point that I would be making from a different perspective, but the system is utterly and completely broken. It is destroying everything. So his point is we need to destroy the system and rebuild it.

So if we're gonna go with that as his motive, then the only difference between he and I is spectrum. I think the system needs to be broken down and rebuilt in order to benefit the poorest. And he disagrees. He thinks it needs to be broken down and rebuilt to benefit the wealthy only. So, but what boggles my mind about those people

is that it is already done. So what is it that he wants to, how is it that you can break down and rebuild the system to benefit the rich even more other than creating a new feudal society? I think that might be it. Yeah, he wants to be, he wants to have his own. We all know Larry Nichols.

He wants a protectorate in Florida, is what you're saying? Larry Nichols said, you know, if you're in the Senate, you become a Duke, he was actually bluffing. It's just if you're rich, you become a Duke. Yeah, he wants to become a vassal. Right, I don't know. Interesting. I don't know, it's tough to say.

In this next clip, the last one we've got from December 7th, again, a day that will live in infamy. Alex almost realizes that he's being fucked with. He almost realizes. See if you can, give me the high sign if you can tell where Alex almost gets it. And then he's like, nah, you're great, Steve. And I just wanted to say to Dr. Pachennick briefly

and get his brief response. He's got to go and we've got to go. He was on a few months ago and he said, you know, at the CFR and all the rest of it, I fed the line that Jeb Bush had run, knowing that once he got back in, we used 9-11 on him. And then I see Trump start using 9-11 on him and then I have some discussions.

I'll just leave it at that. And that's indeed what they're doing is basically baiting the media in to attack him as a 9-11 truther. And then he's going to destroy the Clintons and the Bushes with it. But they were smart enough. It got real big and then crickets, no stories,

2,000 plus stories and then no stories. The word went out, shut that down. So now, obviously I can let everybody in on the hat trick because, you know, now this particular task of the fishing rod lure was somewhat successful but not fully successful. Plus it's good to let them know that they're not the only ones that play games.

Okay, so I'll just leave it at that. And again, I'm not here with some agency. I'm not being advised by people. I'm just here common sense. And then I talked to a pochetic and then I talked to some other people and they're on the same page and I wonder if they know each other.

Pochetic says they don't. But it's just people that get this going on and know how to respond to it. But that is pretty exciting, Pochetic. Yeah. They say the stuff and it's like, do they know each other? And I'm like, oh, they probably, he said it.

This noted psych warfare master. And the world's greatest dirty trickster. The two of them say they don't know each other but they're suspiciously telling all the same things that deny credibility. Right, right, right. Like beyond the pale of reality, like legitimately Steve Pochetic ends up saying

that Donald Trump just wants to become president to straighten things out and then he's gonna disappear. He's going to be president. He might even step down after he fixes everything. He doesn't really want to be president. He doesn't want to be president. He just knows that they need to fix this.

Loki and the Oracle are together fighting or fighting against everything. It's nonsense. It's complete bullshit. And that moment right there where Alex is like, I got other people telling me the same things and I think they know each other but they don't. It's like, dude, come on.

Do better. You're right there. I'm watching his face too. And he's like, he's like making a face like, he's processing it. And he just can't finish the job. I mean, Pochetic's on the show. Imagine if Pochetic weren't on at that moment,

do you think he could have made the connection? No. Like he's got a star fuck Pochetic. So if Pochetic's not there. Not if he's being rude during a hurricane. That's just. No, but that's after the operation. We're saying that Las Vegas isn't real.

Right. But that's after the operation and quotes is complete. I mean, at a certain point, half, like at this point, Pochetic might as well say that Las Vegas, the city isn't even real. I've never been there. I can't prove it's real. I was there once, but that could have been a false flag.

Could have been race memory. They could have built it just so when I showed up, they were like, oh, look how real it is. I've heard of that happening to a lot of people. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. It happened to Sandy Hook. Totally.

I don't even think it's a real city. So we're going to talk now about December 29th, where Steve Pochetic comes back. There's going to be two things that happen on the 29th. Cause we talked about the 29th already, but we missed some things. Christmas. Certainly it's coming up or just happened.

Oops. Just happened. Did they do a Christmas episode? Of course. There's a war on Christmas. You think they're not going to do a Christmas episode? No, I mean on Christmas. I don't think so.

But they did do a New Year's Eve episode, which we're going to cover later. I would give anything to hear them try and redo. I know, I know, right? Or like, or like do a timeout. What I want more than anything right now is the Muppets Christmas album, but replace John Denver with Alex Jones. That would be amazing.

I want them to do a live, I want them to do a live reading of a Christmas Carol, but just rewrite it as they see how that would work like Scrooge is a fucking maker. And this motherfucker is just trying to get a day off. What is this bullshit? These ghosts are invading his personal space. Oh, absolutely. Trying to make him get rid of private property.

These ghosts are against prosperity. A conservative Christmas Carol would have him shoot a ghost. No, a libertarian. He would pull a shotgun out and be like intruder and shoot the ghost and that would be the end. It's interesting that you think he's conservative because on this 29th episode, he has something to say about his political leaning.

Sure. I just opposed the Talitarianism. I'm not anti-Islam, but I'm against funding radical Islam to take over the world. And all of this comes out of the way. And then using the threat of it to take my freedoms and my family's freedoms. I mean, I'm a real liberal, folks.

I'm a constitutionalist. Absolutely. Thomas Jefferson was a liberal. I'm that kind of liberal. Not the modern liberals with political correctness saying ban. It's a, I'm dreaming of a white Christmas. And they're actually doing that and saying if a white person wants to eat Chinese food,

it's cultural appropriation. They're actually banning that at universities. I mean, you, you cannot be banned. People are resigning on a new black list. Only for white people. Oh, okay. Because they said we're not going to ban Halloween. Get over it.

People being offended by people in cowboy outfits. It's not what they're offended by. You dress like a Nazi. And I'm a real liberal. People call me a libertarian, right-winger or whatever because I'm pro-gun. The definitions are all scrambled. Right.

He's a classical liberal. Classical liberal. So let's get to it. Steve Pachennick comes back on on this 29th episode. And at this point, Alex has transformed. And he has decided he likes Trump. Yes. As we saw on December 15th.

Absolutely. And on this episode, it is where I tracked it down. This is where the soft coup narrative starts. Okay. So now let's enjoy watching Alex get lied to in real time and not realize at all how hard he's getting played. You'll see it all. You'll see the moments.

This is sad. This is really fucking sad. We have had a military-to-military relationship with the Russians that has been outstanding since 91. Now, contrary to the neocons, contrary to the narratives of civilians who would like to say they bombed the Russians, or it's a Russian conspiracy, that's absolute. And that's why the political class wants to talk about war

with Russia in these debates. They're so angry that the US military is defying them. And I'm not trying to lionize the US Army especially, but it's exactly what you said here a decade ago. They are literally the best patriots we've got. So at this point, what I think is not good, what I think is happening there in code is that Steve Puchenik knows damn well

that a lot of the people in the campaign have connections to Russia, and he is pre-inoculating. The idea that, oh yeah, of course, they're going to be attacking Russia there, but it's secretly because... Is he picking 2001 because of 9-11? Is that what he's saying? He said 91.

Oh, he said 91. Yeah, 91. After the Berlin Wall came down, I believe. I gotcha. A few years after that. But yeah, I think that what he's doing is he's putting that into Alex's head, the narrative in advance that like,

look, Russia's great. Russia's great, which Alex already is inclined to believe. Right. That just doesn't make any sense, though. What do you mean? I mean, everything. Point by point, lay it out, what do you mean? I mean, if he's saying that there was a military

to military cooperation. The Russian military and our military and Putin. It's that same thing with Assad. It's the same thing with the idea that Assad had a trilateral agreement with Russia and our military. You know where that comes from. Let's finish this clip.

You'll see where it comes from. Holding back so much of this. Well, you have to understand. I mean, when I worked in government, my primary position was always as a military officer. When I went into intelligence, I was trained in that at MIT and at Harvard. That was a secondary position,

but I was proud to be an intelligence. And of course, then I am a psychiatrist. But my loyalty has always been to the republic as it has been for Martin Dempsey, as it has been for General Flynn, for many other generals who supported our American positions and understood that our civilian leaders, remember, most of them had not been to war.

So a lot of these ideas are likely coming from people like Michael Flynn. So he went to MIT, he was a military officer. Right. Then he went to MIT and Harvard and was trained in Intel. I guess so, yeah. He's a psychiatrist.

And he's a psychiatrist. Yeah. What? Does MIT have a co-intel program? Like what is going on here? Yeah, I guess so. I mean, if you base it on what we're getting from this. Yeah, I guess.

Is that true? Can I apply? I don't- Can I go to MIT for fucking psych warfare? That sounds awesome. I think you got to get recruited. You think so? Yeah.

Like Alex Jones' dad? Or it doesn't exist and you pretend you got recruited. That's another good one. Is that all you have to do? These guys are fucking crazy. It's pretty wild. If they're successfully pulling this shit off based on all of these lies and all that shit,

God, this would make a great movie. One day it will be. This would make an insanely good movie. One day it will, absolutely. This is like Tinker, Taylor, Silver, Spy, except it's real and we won't let Gary Oldman play any of the characters. And one, like the biggest mouthpiece of it is often drunk on air.

Hahaha. He's a notorious bigot who likes the taste of whiskey. Yeah. So in this next clip, we get to a little bit more of the counter-coo narrative. Because we mentioned soft-coo in that last clip a little bit. And that's the soft-coo is, I guess, Hillary taking power or something like that.

And then the counter-coo is what Steve Pocanik is involved in. Yes, sir, let me throw this in. Then how seismic is it that we've had a huge, basically military counter-coo against the civilian insane people who are like a compulsive gambler at a slot machine trying to conquer and start wars. They can't win.

I mean, this is such a big deal to have it confirmed that our own military went around Obama and the neocons and gave the Russians and the Syrians all the authorization and info they needed to defeat Al-Qaeda and ISIS. Disturbing. And I met with a bunch of special forces people. Not true.

You name it. They're all completely awake now. I mean, the system has a big problem. I don't see how they're going to put this back in the bottle. Well, let me put it this way. I would call this, or we call this, a soft coup. A soft coup, meaning that we haven't overthrown the president. We don't intend to overthrow the president.

There's not a violence involved. There are not going to be guns in the street. But Alex, at the same way you change the narrative of the media, what's happening now, thanks to the bravery of these men who've been in our military and our Navy, and also the men who were fired in Benghazi and the stand down in Africom and the naval officers who were involved, all these people stood out and had their day

in court and continue to have that. Some are heard. Some aren't. But you have to remember, our democracy and our republic is a very fluid entity. It's not static. It doesn't stay. And I agree.

So the truth is out in the public opinion, the military system-wide is saying no to the tyranny. What is that doing to the more corrupt elements of the establishment? Well, they're getting scared. And what happened is because of your ability to articulate and our military willing to stand up- Please stop giving me that credit.

I get 1% of the credit, sir. Well, whoa, whoa, whoa. The platform gets it. I know. Alex, we've known each other for too long. This is not that we're not bragging here. We're basically saying, because of that narrative, you have a man like Trump come forward,

whatever he may or may not be, he is changing the entire dynamics of the republic and the way they're getting elected. Excuse me, Steve, you can keep blowing me, but don't stick your finger up my ass, OK? That feels too good. At least not on air. Yeah, Jesus.

Yeah, he's essentially saying that because of you and your narrative ability- A Trump can arrive. You have created Trump. If you created Trump, well, god damn it, if you don't want to be part of Trump. Right. I mean, he's already jumped on board at this point,

so it's more grandizing Alex and compromising him with flattery. So you'll believe this soft coon narrative. On a day-to-day basis, what does a guy like Steve Pachanic do? Like just as a day-to-day thing. I bet he likes to read. I bet he likes to, I don't know, he lives in Florida, maybe golfs.

I don't know. He's a retired dude. I don't know what he does. That's what- Schemes. That's what I know. It has to be him- It's got to be scheming.

It has to be him in a fucking office just writing out reams upon reams of possible. Or he's got a whiteboard like Steve Bannon. There's no way that he can just come on these shows and pull off this bullshit. That's one of the, I think it's actually pretty easy when you're dealing with Alex. If he already likes you and respects you-

So far, we aren't having any trouble. Well, whenever he likes you and respects you, as long as you keep being like, you're the most important person in the world, you're so amazing. Now, let me tell you this. He's going to go along with it. He's never going to push too hard back on things

with a person like Steve. And when this falling out about the Las Vegas thing happened, it didn't even happen with Alex. It happened with David Knight. If he'd said that on Alex's show, I don't know what would have happened. Right. That would have been fucking awesome.

Right. Alex can respond to it when a caller asks him about it, but put in the hot seat that David Knight got put in, I don't know what Alex would have done. He would have been like, that's interesting. Yeah. Probably. And then hit that fucking commercial button.

Right, right, right, right. But jam in that button. Yeah. I don't know. Like with what you talked about on Thursday. Whenever, who was it that brought it up? And they went immediately to commercial? Once Paul Joseph Watson brought up-

PJW, yeah, when he fucking pulled that shit up and Alex Jones was like, yeah, nope, false flag bike. He's really good at that. Yeah. Two shooters. I know PJW said it wasn't two shooters, but there's two shooters. Bye.

I don't want to fire this guy. So commercial. Bye. So in this next clip, Steve fakes his phone being fucked with like his tradition on Info Wars. They love to do that. They love to fake hacks. He's being hacked.

And at the end of this clip, I think that you can pretty well assume that Roger Stone and Steve Pachanik are working together. I think it comes out in this clip. Don't the crooks in the establishment know when they threaten you or me, all that does is make us double down. Don't they know our psychology?

No, because you see, I'm getting interfered with right now. Just while I'm talking to you, they're jamming me on this phone. And this is a hard line. I'm not being paranoid. I just know it. I mean, you hear that? No, it's probably just on your side.

Or not on my side, but they're jamming me on this side because this is an undisclosed number, my friend. The point is, these are our obsessional politicians who've never had real life experience. Obama is created, developed, and nurtured by the CIA. He doesn't know anything else. He's not a man of strategy. He's not a conceptual man.

He's not a great thinker. He's a man who's been told what to do, what to say, and he lies pathologically in a way that absolutely stuns me. He makes Nixon look like he was the most honest man I've ever met. Obama has repeatedly lied about it. Well, let me throw you out. Got more time, but then I skipped the break.

And I'm going to quit doing this. This is so important. You can pause it for a minute. Let me throw this at you, Dr. Pachennick. Yes. Here's an example. You brought up Mr. Stone with the Trump camp. Correct.

I mean, really, he's like the head of the campaign, but he's out of it for other reasons, obviously. Correct. I mean, this guy, obviously. Stealing. Time out right there. Steve Pachennick's response to that is correct. He's out of it for other reasons.

Steve Pachennick knows what's going on. OK. So that presupposes that Alex has talked to Stone. Stone has said he's basically running the campaign. He had to leave for other reasons. That means that Pachennick also has talked to it. Alex knows the reasons. Right, right, right.

I can be more effective outside than inside. Yeah, of course. Or whatever. But that could also just be bullshit. Steve, if he didn't have some awareness, his instinctual response would not be to respond correct. The fact that he responds correct leads me to believe that he already knew.

But at the same time, OK, I have to be the worst skeptic here. All right. Stone, it's entirely possible Stone left because Stone is the worst person to have affiliated with your actual campaign. And they wanted him gone. Possibly. Like, that's still a possibility.

And it's entirely possible, if that's true, I don't buy that at all. For Stone to insist that he's still running the campaign because he's Roger fucking Stone, he has to, at the very least, imagine that in the same way that somebody who's kicked out of it, like, you know, the fifth beetle is still like, I'm a big reason the beetles were successful.

You know that fucking guy, whatever his fucking name. Yeah, there you go. But look, the end result is the same. It doesn't matter. You're arguing like a little bit of nuanced semantics. But like, the end result of whether he was kicked out because he's too hot or something like that,

or he left strategically in order to create a propaganda machine. The end result is he did create a propaganda machine in service of Trump. That's true. So whatever the actual reason for it is, is irrelevant. He still did succeed in doing that. I'm so pissed off that Pechenik said

that Obama wasn't a, like, say whatever you want about Obama. That man was a fucking thinker. Yeah, he's very substantial. Dare you. I know, but at the same time, there's a lot of people who come on Alex's show who, like, say stuff like that, and are like, well, that is code for racism. Yeah.

I don't really think that would see. No, Pechenik isn't doing that out of race. He's creating a false reality where a Trump can be considered. Trump has lied every day. Right. Every fucking day about fucking everything. And for him to say that Obama is lying and that Obama isn't a great thinker,

look, one of the big reasons that Obama wasn't a great president was because he was thinking too much. Steve addresses this. Oh, God, what a fucking, he's fucking, oh, Christ. But that's in the next clip. Let's finish this one first before we get to that. All right. Correct.

I mean, really, he's like the head of the campaign, but he's out of it for other reasons, obviously. Correct. I mean, this guy, obviously, top guy with Nixon, top guy with Bush, senior, other folks. I mean, running major political operations in third-world countries, I mean, is highly respected. That's correct.

It's obvious what the guy is and does. He came here before Trump came on, and I'm not going to get into the inside baseball of it, but he briefed me on stuff. And then when you came on and talked about him a few weeks later, you laid out everything he said word for word. And I didn't know we talked. Yeah.

But then went on and said, even though I haven't talked to him, he didn't see what's happened. And that's basically what he told me and about this whole fissure in the system. And Trump knows that. And he was explaining, no, Trump's really for real. We're not going to let him break this country and destroy it. They're globalists.

They want to roll us into this thing. And they want to have basically a corporate takeover and loot it. We're not going to allow it. And so it was just amazing to hear you then basically say what you knew he'd already told me. It's just very, very interesting to realize there's all these different camps

in these different intelligence agencies. Well, the truth of the matter is there are those who believe in the truth. We're called truthers. And I take it not as an insult, but as a point of pride. And I think your entire audience should take that as a point of pride. So instead of addressing any issues,

he just flatters Alex and his audience. There are people that know the truth and we're called truthers, mainly because all we believe in is insane. So, OK, so Alex even fucking maps it out perfectly. You told me what Roger Stone already told me. And you knew that he had already told me. And you knew he had already told me.

He accidentally phrases it that way when that's supposed to not be what he believes. He's so close to working this out. It's exactly right on. He's so close. And the whole like watching it is painful. But watching the actual video of it is like, it's like, have you ever seen a video of a dog falling off a dock?

So there are videos that you can find. I've seen it once in a while in my life where it's a dog who's hanging off a dock and it's scrambling with its paws trying to stay on the dock. But its lower half is falling off. It's just you know that dog's falling off the dock. But it's trying so hard. That's what it's like to be to watch Alex Jones be lied to

by Steve Pocenic and almost get it. There's those moments where he's like, you're telling me the same things Roger Stone told me. And you knew that he told me. And he's like, you're not going to get there. You're falling off that dock. What I see is a cat. I see it's one of those videos of the cat where it's like,

I know I can get the top of that refrigerator. I can jump from this table to the top of that refrigerator. And then right as it about to go, it's like, uh-oh, my paws are slippery and it goes right down. There are similarities. There are similarities. Yeah, it's just sad to me.

It's really sad because you see the sort of jump off point of like where life could have been entirely different. Like the world could be different. If Alex Jones had been against Trump, I don't think he would have won. And that's not to say that Alex is the reason that Trump won. No, I know, I know. It's enough of a population that had he not-

The margins were razor thin. And if he had just like either been neutral like he was in the Obama, McCain election, or if he had been against Trump because, hey, they tried to run a Psyop on me or something like that, it would have made a huge difference. And quite frankly, I think Alex Jones is going crazy and his entire operation has descended

into bigot-filled madness since 2015. Like before it was still bigoted, don't get me wrong. But the level is so much higher now and the rhetoric is so dangerous that like I think we could have saved everybody a lot of trouble if that dog would have got on that dock. Like if some miracle would have happened and he would have realized, fuck Steve Pachett

and Roger Stone are clearly like, why are they pretending not to know each other? Yet they say, he even says word for word, verbatim, the same stuff. If he would have just put the pieces together, I'm not gonna say he could have saved the world. But- No, I mean, well, if we're working under the operating position of neoliberalism

is perhaps the root cause of all of this, then it would be- Well, backlash to neoliberalism. Well, yeah. Well, which is- Which neoliberalism isn't good. Neoliberalism is- Neoconservative and neoliberalism is bad.

Almost as bad as conservatism. Right. So, I mean, Hillary as president would have had the same result as Obama as president wherein we're just pushing these people into more and more of a frenzy. So it's entirely possible that this was inevitable. That Trump is the inevitability

of a broken Democrat or Republican capitalist, what? Yeah, I mean- Crypto-Cleptocratic nation? But, maybe. Like, if we're gonna look at this from a tides of history standpoint, which we really have to, because if you dive into the day to day, this is all unreal.

Like, this is unreal. Yeah. Like, in 2017, we might as well be watching fucking gladiatorial combat in the goddamn Coliseum while, you know, fucking an emperor puts his thumb up and down on people. Like, this is fucking insane. Yeah.

So look at it from a tide of history standpoint and you see all of these little pieces coming together, which perhaps made what is really going on an inevitability. And instead of saying that it's Trump or it's Mercer or it's all of these things, you can really point to all of these historical inertia factors.

Historical inertia factors that are just pushing us ever closer to complete fucking total collapse. Can I poke holes in your intellectualizing a tiny bit? Please. I don't think it matters. Fair. That is a fair point.

Well, I mean, it is interesting to, and I think 20 years from now, that's a fun conversation to have. Right. But the reality is whatever happened did happen. Right. And whether Trump and this sort of, like you described, kleptocratic,

unhinged, unhinged meaning in the way I'm using it. Unchecked capitalism. Well, no, not even that. Like, untethered to ideology even really. Right, right, right, right. It's not even, like, it would be easier if he was just a white supremacist. Right.

Because then you'd be like, oh, that's what you believe in. Right. As opposed to like, I'm going to take advantage of some of the, I mean, I have leanings towards white supremacy. I'm going to take advantage of that block as best I can. Yeah.

The untethered ideological steal everything, gin up and really excite these dangerous conservative militia types. Whether that's inevitable, doesn't matter. Because the Mercer's did do this. Right. Alex Jones did do this. Trump is present.

Trump is the person. I am so mad that Barbara Tuckman is old. And the 45 Club. And the 45 Club is in play. If Barbara Tuckman wasn't like in her 70s, God damn it, she would write the greatest book about this. Also, I will. We're not going to live that long.

I will write it. It takes a while to write a book, Dad. I will write it if people just fucking donate and not have to have a job. Yeah. I have a lot of thoughts. Anyway, we have one more clip of Steve Pachennick before we get into something that I think is fun.

And it's a little bit of a departure to end the episode. But here is the last clip of Steve Pachennick. And again, Alex does not get the picture that he's being played. Whoever Trump is, he is a force to contend with. And he will not tolerate this kind of nonsense. I'm going to give out some secret stuff. But I'm going to give out just the facts as it's now out.

I was told months ago that Trump would go after Hillary on the rape stuff with protecting Clinton. I was told that they were waiting for them to attack on 9-11 and think Trump was weak on that. And then Trump's Reddit has just absolutely annihilated him with it because they don't know they've lost all credibility. Also, just fun to remember that on 9-11, Trump's response was, now my building looks bigger.

He said that on air when he was interviewed on the TV news. Now I have the tallest building in New York. Yeah. And so the idea that he could be like, your brother was president on 9-11. Like, well, what did you actually say? Like, the idea that that's a good trap, I don't know if it necessarily is.

There are no traps. There is nothing. No, but also, how fucking fun would it have been? Oh, so much fun. If Alex Jones' fantasy scenario that Roger Stone has clearly fed him, they're like, they're trying to lure jab into this. So Trump can be like, what about building seven? Right, right, right.

If that became the debate, holy shit, that would be amazing. Then I would have voted for Trump. I don't know about that. I don't know if that's enough. Anyway, let's get through the rest of this clip. OK. And Trump basically has been recruited by patriots. He didn't want to do it, by the way.

On a political, what they know could be a suicide mission. And real statesmen don't tell you all this stuff, folks. OK? I mean, all the other people are cowards. They can be intimidated. Whatever you want to say about Trump, believe me, they wouldn't let me know some of this stuff if it wasn't the case.

They wouldn't lie to me like this. They have recruited him on a suicide mission to try to save America. Trump believes the narrative, the narrative's real. It trumps all these other fake people. We've got a bet on it. And then you came on, when I hadn't even gone, talked about this, Shedder had Trump on.

And you already basically knew all about it. But not even though you knew him, you understood the narrative because it was the truth and a way out of it. No! And I am so fortunate, as America is, and you are, to have Trump come forward, spend his time, his energy, his money.

He doesn't need to do this, but he sees. And this is a very smart individual. I'm not talking only book smarts. He's incredibly shrewd. He understood what happened in 9-11, because he knows Silverstein. He knows the World Trade Center better than anybody. Who cares?

Why would he know the World Trade Center better than everybody? Anyone. Other than abject hatred for it. So then again, I mean, you saw that right there. There's a, he almost got it. Dog, dog just fell off the dock. See, the thing is, he was told Trump is gonna go after 9-11. Trump is gonna go after the rapes.

Obviously, Roger Stone told him that. Obviously, somebody in the campaign told him. It was Roger. So, if Picanx was the same thing. I think that's the only person that he had access to at this point. Yeah, you've sold me on the two of them working together. No shit, it's fucking obvious. That's obvious.

Why did you fight with me so much at the top of the show? Because we didn't know! I didn't know the rest of the part, and I just don't believe that people are successful. I would like to tell you that an hour and 20 minutes ago, I said, a lot of this is about clips. That's not the point! That I'm going to play at these...

Yeah, but I can't trust you! What's the show? I wait for an hour and 20 minutes to talk? It's been like 10 months of us doing this. You have to know that I have a plan. I'm not going to make a bold assertion at the beginning. I'm not going to back up. See, now this is why we have the open of,

you know a lot about Alex Jones, and I don't know anything about Alex Jones. That's my job! Fair enough. So, I think we can put the baby to bed. In terms of Roger Stone and Steve Poccanic, we're working together pretty early on. Is there any way that we can prove that concretely?

Without hacking their emails, no. See, that's the thing, because if we actually have concrete proof of that, that's a whole different story. Well, yeah. The problem is, it is obvious... Alex gives amazing circumstantial proof. No, exactly!

It's obvious that they were working together, but we can't pull up... Look, if we're in court... Yeah. No judge is going to be like, well, obviously Alex Jones' show is a perfect evidence. Well, unless I'm the judge. Unless...

And then I'll be like, oh, this is, he's guilty. Or if Judy's the judge, I bet we could crush that. Or if it's Reinhold. Oh, man! Imagine if we went on TV with Alex Jones as like a Judge Judy show. Or Judge Mills Lane. Knowledge fight is suing info wars.

Small claims? My small claim is that he's made some big claims. Yeah, we would like a couple of grand. Anyway, I think we would be the defendants in any suit. Oh, I think we would. I think he's going to sue the shit out of us. Oh, absolutely. I think once he realizes that conceivably

we are the people who are doing the most potent dangerous work about his credibility, I do think he might sue us for playing clips on the show. That would be fascinating. Can we represent ourselves? I will, yeah, yeah, for sure. Also, I am...

I'll be your lawyer, you'll be mine. I am going as a sovereign citizen, though. Of course. I'd like to say up front, I do not recognize the authority of this court. I am showing up here as a representative for Dan Friesen, but I am not. I will be writing my name in lower case letters.

Thank you very much. Well, you can capitalize the first letter. That's not all of it. Fair, fair. Anyway. And I do not have a signature and I don't have any fingerprints anymore. So, Alex Jones, this is a big piece of the 2015 investigation.

I think this is actually where we'll put it to bed. Yeah, I think you're right. Steve Pechenik, Roger Stone in league with the Mysterious 45 Club, 45 group. And the extraordinary general. General. Yep, you got Sean Connery. Quatermain.

Yep, naturally. Forgot what? Dr. Jekyll. Dr. Jekyll, of course. The guy from 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea, right? Really? Who's the Indian dude? I don't know.

I don't know. Why would you pay attention to that movie? I read the graphic novel. Oh, did you? Never did that. It's all right. Anyway, we have a little bit of a bonus. Tom Cruise from The Mummy, I guess now.

Sure, sure. We got a bonus here at the end. We are done with our 2015 investigation aspect of this episode. But in going back through, I re-listened to the December 29th episode. And because I did so, I realized that I turned it off too early

because Alex Jones has his friend, Kevin Booth on, who's the guy who was Bill Hicks producer. Right. And the two of them are idiots. Right, killed Lincoln. Right, absolutely. So the two of them are on because Kevin Booth has a guest, a friend who he had interviewed

for an investigative film that he's doing. This guy was a gentleman by the name of Dr. Yala. And he's done a lot of work in terms of interviewing people who've defected from ISIS. Okay. And I actually have his bio pulled up here. Dr. Yala's research mainly focuses on terrorism, radicalization, and countering violent extremism.

He's authored and co-authored several articles and books on the subject of terrorism and violence, including First Responders Guide to Professionally Interacting with Muslim Communities, Law Enforcement, Emergency and Firefighters, Understanding and Responding to Terrorism, a complete model to deal with terrorism and understanding and responding to terrorism.

Dr. Yala over the years has interviewed cadres representing over 20 terrorist organizations. The ISIS Defector interviews of late are unique in the world as he was one of the first researchers who managed to reach ISIS defectors and persuade them to talk about their stories openly. Editorially, in parentheses, I'm going to add this without torture.

Most of those were also video recorded for future documentaries. Ahmet S. Yala, PhD, that's a real degree. He formerly served as- Did get it from Sri Lanka, though. He formerly served as professor and the chair of sociology department at Huron University in Turkey.

Dr. Yala earned both his master's and PhD degrees in criminal justice and information science from the University of North Texas. Dr. Yala served as the chief of counterterrorism and operations division for the Turkish National Police. He's written multiple books, and at this point he is in hiding for the most part because of the-

Cool. incredibly dangerous work that he does. Yeah, because- Well, and ISIS wants to kill him. He's the cultural revolution. He's Dr. Feng Yulan, actually. Sure, and ISIS wants to kill him, because he has talked to people

who have defected from ISIS. He knows who those people are, and he's gotten information from them that they do not want to be out. Of course. So, Kevin Booth was on with Alex, and the reason that I didn't get to this interview is because they have terrible tech difficulties,

and I thought that they just abandoned the interview. I think it was smart for Kevin Federline to change his name after the whole Britney break up. Pappos out! Uh... I made a big mistake in not covering this interview, and I'm going to rectify that now. Okay.

This interview is damning in many ways, and I'm going to start it with Alex Jones introducing the guest, Dr. Yala, and this is before he allows the guest to talk. Wait, so Dr. Yala goes on Alex Jones' show? Because of his relationship with Kevin Booth. So... Because Kevin Booth is doing a documentary

where he went to Turkey and done a bunch of research. So, is Dr. Yala an insane person? It seems so far what you've described to me is somebody who knows what the fuck he's talking about. Let's see what happens when an actual scholar shows up accidentally on Infowars. Oh! But first...

So, this is an accidental situation. But first... Yala did not know what he was getting into. I don't think so. But also, here's how Alex Jones sets it up, and it's important to take note of this because I think he would redo this afterwards, if he could. You have gone into the most dangerous areas

in South Central LA to skid row, to make your films that have aired on, I mean, you name it, Showtime, HBO, so many other channels. American Drug War I and II that I was honored to consult on. So, folks know Kevin Booth is, but Kevin recently just got back from Turkey. He lives in LA.

He's visiting family, he's a Texan, visiting family out in Fredericksburg, and he said, man, I've got incredible stuff from the Middle East. And then, I was looking at who he was gonna bring, bring on the show in about 30 minutes. This particular doctor, and I was like, wait a minute, Joe Biggs knows who that is.

This is the guy that's getting ISIS defectors to defect and expose it to the West and the Turkish government and others are funding him. This guy's in hiding. This guy's really big. He's interviewed him. We've got a three-minute super cup. We're gonna play here in a moment.

So, Alex Jones has suggested and presented this as, he knows who this guy is, and he's saying that he's exposing that the US and the West. And he's getting people to defect from ISIS as opposed to interviewing defectors. I don't believe that he's getting people to defect. He's not convincing people to defect, is he? No, not that I'm aware of.

I don't know, I can't speak to that, but I don't think that's the case. I think he's researching terrorism and what causes people. They play the supercut and he goes into some really interesting ideas about what are the biggest identifiers for what puts someone at risk of being a... Joining ISIS.

Right, and generally it's having a family member who has been killed by a US drone strike or something like that. Yeah, who would have guessed? Poverty, there's basically a lot of it is, well, you'd kind of expect that. These are the motivations that end up driving people towards that and he knows that from interviewing

the people who have been like, this is too hot, I gotta get out of here. The way we reacted after World War I caused World War II, the way we are reacting after 9-11 caused ISIS. Right, or even Desert Storm. Yeah. If you wanna go back even further.

Absolutely. But that, I mean, then we get into like a, you know, chicken egg. Of course. Or chai-kong. Anyways, America created its own enemies. So, but Alex Jones is presenting it as this guy is exposing that the West is funding ISIS

and created ISIS. He does not know that that is not what is going to be exposed in this interview. I have two clips, they're a little long, but they're necessary. And I don't wanna deprive them of context. This first one I have just labeled, Dr. Yala is not an info warrior.

Trying to get started here with your incredible historic interviews with these ISIS people, please continue. Give us the big picture. In one of the interviews with Kevin, you talked about the fact that it's just unprecedented. I believe you said that ISIS is being used to basically take Syria away.

I mean, what's the geopolitical aim here? Who's really behind ISIS, sir? Okay, we had interviewed around 30 ISIS defectors as of now. And this question was one of the questions I asked them with Dr. Ansipekar, during our interview. I have three answers to this question. Most of the time, the defectors answer in similar ways.

The first, they argue that Syria and Iran is behind ISIS. The second, Russia is behind ISIS. And the third, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey behind ISIS. The ISIS fighters or the terrorists who had been in the field and fought with ISIS, think that those three countries are behind the laser or forcing factors behind ISIS. They think Syria, because Syria and Iran

are acting together in the region. And they think that Assad is trying to show the whole world that if you do not work with me, you have to work with these animals. So here's a very quick time. Agreed. The second. I don't think there's any evidence

that Assad's behind ISIS. This is what they say. I'm right now talking about the research. That was my next question. How do you know they haven't defected to you to give you this info? Okay. This is through our connection and my past experience

because I had interrogated and interrogated over 10,000 terrorists over the 70 years of time. So it is basically based on our experience and also you can see and understand their stories are through what they are talking and through their narratives. For example, when I asked about some Russia, they said there are Russian generals

who are at the age of around 40, 45. They claim that they are retired from Russian military as generals. They converted to Islam and right now they are fighting for the ISIS. And when they described those generals, they were the ones who were making the critical decisions on the battlefield.

And one of the fighters told me that I never trusted them because they were there in the name of Russia. I asked them if they were Chechen. He said, no, he's a real, blunt Russian. And they are the ones who were stealing us towards the war. So I was kind of like checking through the interview. So he's saying, because his accent is a little bit thick,

he's saying that there are 40 to 45 year old Russian retired military personnel who are directing, who are leading ISIS. Well, some part of ISIS, ISIS groups, ISIS battlefields, they are making battlefield decisions. He's saying that that is information that he has gotten from defected ISIS fighters. And whether or not you want to deem him credible

or not is a decision that you have to make. Or whether you deem the information that the person is giving him as credible is your decision. I've looked into it a little bit. He does have an incredible track record and a 20 year history of interviewing, he said 10,000 terrorists. 10,000 terrorists over 40 years.

He's interviewed over the years. Yeah, and so... So he's consistently given three answers. It's Syria plus Iran. Right, that's one. It is Russia and it is Turkey. Not... And Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey.

Yeah, those three answers are what he's consistently given by ISIS defectors. So you can either accept that as... Each one of them is getting different information. They're in cells as opposed to a unified group. Right. Or... I think that's a big piece of it.

I think that's exactly what's going on. Because ISIS isn't a group. ISIS isn't a thing. In the same way that... I mean, this is a terrible analogy to make because Alex would love me to make this analogy. But in the same way that Antifa isn't a group. Right.

ISIS isn't a group where they have like the heads of all the local ISIS chapters meet together. Yeah, it's not a real country. Yeah. No. It's not a real nation. So that's why we can see ISIS taking... There's very likely a piece of it

that is swayed by Russia. Right. Very likely there is a piece that's swayed by Iran. Well, Syria is absolutely important there. Well, and we'll get to that in the next clip. He actually has some really interesting proof of it. Yeah. Okay.

And... Well, it's hard. So then we're talking about... If that is possible... It is. It's entirely possible that all three different types are being accurate. Yeah.

It's entirely possible that what's really going on with ISIS is that it is a loosely connected group of people... Do you remember? Who are then taking responsibility for so many different terrorist attacks because they are directed by their... You know, their battlefield generals, if you will. And a lot of times they probably end up fighting

with each other in ways that are unpredictable. Do you remember when the NWO happened in the WCW? It was pretty... I do remember when the NWO... It was like one big group. But then it ended up turning into the Wolf Pack and then Hollywood and the Black and White and then the Luchador World Order.

Right. The Hispanic group came around. I gotcha. There's something of that. There's like maybe there was a central idea to ISIS at one point and then it became fractured. There's a whole lot of possibilities in terms of this. I don't know.

Or maybe it's just different groups of people who were looking for funding and different people came calling. It's possible. Like the only way you fight a war on this level is with money and they all need money and they don't necessarily work or live together. So if they don't have a centralized tax plan

or whatever it is you wanna go to, they all have to have money to support themselves. So they all have to find a way to get that money and if their goals temporarily align with Russia, they get Russian money. It's like doing odd jobs. Exactly. Yeah.

They're mercenaries less than they are. Yeah. A cohesive ideology. It's ideologue mercenaries. Yeah. It's like we want to get our caliphate but we also will kill tons of people for you if you want us. Right.

They're the second sons. Right. So what they really- Do you know the only possibility that's not true in my mind? The only thing I'm excluding from my mind is that this guest is misrepresenting his research. That's agreed.

So that's the- He is telling the truth in full blatant disregard for the rules of infowars. Now there's a couple things that I need you to remember that I think might have slipped your mind. This one, this first one probably not and that is that Alex set it up by saying that- America did it.

Right. America's fine again. And that this guest is great and he has a great reputation. Of course. All this stuff. The second thing you almost certainly have forgotten and that is that on December 29th,

we covered this on the last 2015 episode, it begins with Alex Jones pretending that infowars was being hacked. Yes. Being hacked by the- He believes that it is the Turkish gulun people. Yeah. And what have you.

I need you to keep that in your mind for what is going to happen two clips from now. Okay. But it needs to be in your mind because I have a very strong theory about what is actually happening. And it turns out, I think he might have actually been hacked.

No shit. Yeah. I will be god fucking damned. I think he might have actually- So if you have, oh my God, so he's got the turkey guy on there. The Turkish army is looking for him

and they're going to go through that? No. Oh, okay. Never mind. I don't think it was the gulun people. All right. I jumped into it. I think the suspect is wrong. Okay. But let's finish this clip.

The only line I've seen on that, doctor, is that the Russians in chesty in other areas basically try to run the radicals out and just say, get out of the country. Again, he very specifically said he asked these people if they were Chechens. Yeah, and they said no. Great.

And some of them have then been coming to Syria, but I don't even think the CIA and others who have been caught up to their eyeballs working with ISIS and NATO have said that the Russians, well, that would be full spectrum dominance if the Russians were running ISIS and countering ISIS. It would be.

Like what you accuse the globalists of doing. Sure would be. I don't say running ISIS, but people in ISIS said that those three countries or those three groups at least have taken it. You know, they were at least using ISIS for their own causes. He can't say that.

Is that the cut to people? I was about to say, I don't know how ISIS would follow Russians. I mean, I just- Oh boy, do I. I sure know why they would do that. Well, now let's take a step back. He listed a total of like eight countries.

Right. And the only one that Alex is sticking on is Russia. Right, of course. It's the only one that he does not. He doesn't even really necessarily fight back too hard on the idea of Syria or any of these other countries. Qatar, Saudi Arabia, obviously. Saudi Arabia is obviously.

Saudi Arabia did 9-11. And Iran probably is not worth fighting about, you know, like in terms of- But he- He already hates Iran because of the Iran deal, so that's fine. But he finds time in his busy schedule to argue that there's no way Russia is involved.

Well, if there's no way Russia, then there's no way Syria, because that's already his argument is that- Fair enough. Syria is part of Russia, essentially. So now in this next clip, Dr. Yala pretty much lays out a very concrete case that Assad and ISIS are working together

based on his experience. And do you know what's awesome about somebody who knows what they're fucking talking about? When asked a direct question, he says, my proof is the people that I've talked to. He does not say, I know this is true. Right. He is still saying that-

He's copping to the idea of like, I'm just reporting what I found in my research. Exactly, it's entirely possible. My data sample is not everybody. So it's entirely possible that this is not necessarily true. Kind of what not liars do. Exactly. Isn't it weird?

Alex must have been like, wait, wait, wait, wait, you don't know 100%? His face. I don't understand. He's flummoxed throughout this. Well, he was quiet. And Kevin Booth is there the entire time and he knows to shut the fuck up.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He just brought a chaotic element into Alex's life. And he's watching to- Kevin is probably having the time of his life. Oh, I imagine. And so I want to also be clear, at this point, that last clip- I mean, except for when he was dating Britney Spears.

Oh, that was the best. Oh, so good. Super ripped. Pop-o-sao. That last clip was over Skype. And then Skype gets hacked. And so they have to do this next, when they come back from commercial,

their Skype isn't working and they have to use the phone. And so it sounds a little different, but also it's relevant to my theory. Now, is he, are we confident he's in the United States hiding? I'm not confident of anything at this point. We have some technical difficulties. You gotta fucking watch out with your hand gestures.

Wherein I knocked over the webcam. And spilled. And spilled a shit ton of monster energy drink. So if anybody would like monster energy drink, it is on Dan's floor. And leg. Yeah, I'm confident that he's in the United States in so much as I don't really care to wrestle with it.

Like I don't want to argue with it. I don't disbelieve. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying more as in, if we're talking about this, if we're saying that the Skype was hacked, it is not because he's in some sort of remote area wherein the signal just may have dropped. No, it's possible.

Oh, look, I don't have a concrete answer on this. That's entirely possible. Even if he's in the fucking United States, it could have dropped. No, of course. But I want, I'm bringing that up mostly. Again, really sorry. Just keep it fresh in your head.

Not in everything. That's all right. In this next clip, Dr. Yala, like I mentioned a second ago, he lays out a really convincing argument for why Assad and ISIS are working together. And Alex has a very negative reaction to it. Of course.

Dr. Amit S. Dala, ICSVE.org. Read more on the site, b-i-v-o-l.v-g. I gotta try to get this guy back up sometime when we're not having Skype problems to really do research and then ask him a bunch of hardcore questions. I mean, I could see the Russians trying to infiltrate ISIS.

I could see the Russians doing something like that, but to have these, quote, ISIS defectors telling them, Russia runs me. I mean, I think he's saying he's done some interrogations. He believes these aren't infiltrators or double or triple agents, but look what's happening in Guantanamo Bay. Just basically theorizing what this person is saying

when he's made it very clear what he's saying. Yeah. Wild. I'm not saying he's wrong. I don't wanna spend one more time that we have a base with the doctor to get off into that. Yeah, I mean, I think he's telling you what they're telling him.

I mean, you know, I think my experience over there is that it's chaos and that is very complicated in that you have a lot of people with a lot of agendas trying to get money, trying to dominate, trying to create their own things. And it's a very chaotic situation. Sure, sure. Well, continually, sir, the key points

you wanna make to the public that folks need to know, go ahead, doctor. Okay, now, for example, I always questioned why Assad and ISIS are not fighting each others. They claim that they are there to get you off the healing regime. So just real quick, what he's saying is that... They're not fighting each other.

Well, no, but he's also saying that one of the questions that he runs into when he's interrogating, interviewing these ISIS defectors is why are we, why is ISIS never fighting Assad? Which is an interesting question. Well, I think the obvious answer there is that the rebels are not part of ISIS. And so if... Interesting.

If ISIS is in Syria, then the American and Russian governments both can say that they are fighting against ISIS when in reality what they're doing is fighting against rebels who are fighting against Assad. So there's a very pro-Assad position that both the United States and Russia take in order to maintain some sort of stability there,

whereas if the rebels actually got rid of Assad, then Syria is up for grabs at that point. And we all know that Assad and Russia and the United States military have an arrangement. Absolutely. But listen to this very, very concrete example that Yala gives that makes him freak out. Right.

But in their history, ISIS never fought against Bashar. For example, when they captured Tel Aviv, they were running refineries over there and the refineries were broken. So they talked to Syrian government and Assad send them engineers to fix those refineries. They let Syrian engineers fix refineries for like a week and then they started to sell oil to Assad,

to Bashar regime. And some of their fighters started to question this act and they said, how come we are giving Bashar regime the oil? It turns back and kills our people with that oil. In their history, they never really fought against Bashar. For example, in Raqqa, when they were going into Raqqa, there were strongholds of Bashar regime. They say the soldiers split and Bashar left all the weapons

and ammunition to ISIS. And same thing happened in several places. So there are lots of questions which cannot be answered or understood by even the high level ISIS members. So it's clearly understandable that there are lots of things going on behind the scenes. Sure, the head of defense intelligence suggests quit. Michael Flynn.

A few months ago, went on Al Jazeera, I don't know if you've seen the clip doctor, and he said that the US government basically funded and helped ISIS, that that was a direct order of Obama. I don't think so, or I have never heard of this. I love that. I don't like that. Man, Alex wanted a different outcome of this interview.

So the very thing that he presented at the top of the interview is being what this guy is exposing. He now asks somebody's like, I have never heard that. That is crazy. I mean, he didn't say that it's crazy, but that's the subtext. So the doctor's point is that when ISIS took Libyan oil refineries,

Bashar sent Syrian engineers to rebuild those refineries. Yeah, to fix stuff. The moment that happened, ISIS started selling oil back to Bashar. The people who defected were like, what the fuck? That's probably a big reason why they defected. Yeah, of course. You're selling oil to the guy who's killing

the people that made me wanna join ISIS because they were being killed. Right. Jesus. And that's something that he's gotten firsthand from these defected soldiers. And it's something that is obviously provable. And it's something that's obviously true.

Okay, that's not a good sign for Alex. Alex is not like true things. No, and that's why he switches to like, all right, let's fucking just ask the question. Yeah. Mike Flynn, who didn't quit, he got fired. He retired. He presents it as he quit.

And he's come out and said that US created and funds ISIS and... Right. No, I've not heard that. I don't know. I don't know that to be true. Nope. Mm.

Mm. That says a lot. That's anger. That's fucking anger. And then he goes to commercial immediately. Yeah, yeah, of course. And he's done with this, if I can intervene.

Of course, of course. So after this, here is his take on the interview that he just did. We just had Dr. Amet as Yaila on the broadcast who advises Homeland Security and more. And he said some things I agree with from the analysis in the clip from your film. The other stuff he was saying

that these quote ISIS defectors tell him, no one else is saying that. But if the West can't fix intelligence, they will have people defect who will then go give this info. And the system's been caught doing that. And I'm not saying he's doing that. He seems like a nice enough guy and interesting.

And, you know, as it says on his colleagues, killed by ISIS, reportedly. But the point is that, I mean, next we're gonna hear Russia over through Libya. I mean, it's on record that the West did that using al-Qaeda. It's on record ISIS's al-Qaeda. What would you like to remind people?

Ah! Ah! Al-Qaeda is fighting ISIS. In most parts of the world. They hate ISIS. Yeah. For obvious reasons. They're not the same group.

Oh. Would you like to lay out what those obvious reasons are? Cause some people might not understand that. Okay, so al-Qaeda is specifically born out of Afghanistan. Yeah. ISIS is specifically born out of Iraq. Iraq is the situation that ISIS capitalized on in order to facilitate what they really want,

which is the end of days. The ultimate battle between the West and the Middle East. Which Bannon and clearly Alex Jones also won. Exactly. Now, al-Qaeda is there as more of a freedom fighting organization. Like that's really their goal. But they've got off track a little bit at times.

Yeah, of course. But the point being is that al-Qaeda is far, far in a way interested in avoiding that kind of caliphate. Because that will once again absorb Afghanistan into something that they don't want to be involved in. Afghanistan of all the things that Afghanistan is, it is a country that truly believes in being its own country.

It does not want to be part of Saudi Arabia. It does not want to be part of all of these different places. It doesn't want to be absorbed in them. All of the wars that have been fought in Afghanistan have been the Afghani people saying, leave us the fuck alone. And so ISIS is another one of those invading nations trying to take over Afghanistan.

Al-Qaeda has no interest in that shit. They're ideologically opposed, even though to a dumb dumb, it appears that they're... Well, if your idea is radical Islam is all radical Islam as opposed to any number of Sunnis, Shiites, Sufi divisions between all of Islam. Islam is not a consolidated bloc. It's like if Protestants...

No, no, no. It's like if Protestants and Catholics are completely different. I got a better version. Alex would love to school you all day talking about how identity Europa militias are different than the Bundy militias. Yeah, of course.

And stuff like that. He'd like to talk about how, oh no, those people are white nationalists, whereas the Bundy's are just about property rights. Sovereignty. Right, so he would like to sit down and tell you that all day, but at the same time he would paint with one brush,

all of Islam, not even radical Islam. They're brown. Yeah, all of it. They're all the same. That's it. His argument is just that the globalists decided to change the name from Al-Qaeda to ISIS to confuse people. Yeah.

That indicates a lack of reading. It indicates a lack of global awareness in any way. But you see that, you see in that last clip. It's like there are so many different sects of Islam in the same way that Protestantism isn't Protestants. It's fucking Lutherans. It's fucking Pentecostals. It's goddamn Quakers.

Like there's so many. Yeah, evangelicals, those fucking monsters. Like it's all of those things. Everything that's not Catholic. Yeah, exactly. And even Catholicism has dark popes, if you've ever watched the order. I know about Solomon's Temple.

No, but Catholicism is in flux and a constant way as well. Different fucking... And you've got Lutherans that are much closer to Catholics than... Or the Church of England is essentially Catholicism, but with divorce. You have an acceptance on Alex's part of a wide swath of Christian identities. Right.

And a lack of tolerance in any way for the idea that any Muslim is different. I mean, he had Laura Loomer on a couple of weeks ago in 2017 saying that there is no moderate Islam. It's all radical. And that's just fucking... That sort of language, it's not going to ruin the world. But what it's going to do is it's going to convince

some people on the fringe who are close to radical Islam to go all the way. They will hear that and think, hey, white people think that we're all radical. I might as well be. That's not necessarily a solid argument. No, it's not, but what other purpose does it serve other than to make white people afraid of brown people?

Right, right. Those two purposes are the only real outcomes out of it. There's, okay. There's so many parallels. I get the specifics that you mean. Yeah. What I'm getting at is more there is no positive productive outcome that comes out of it.

Right, right, right. And there's no reality-based outcome that comes out of it. Well, I mean, I think the single best parallel I have for why Christianity and Islam are both stupid and terrible. They're religions. Well, that's part of it. But look at the way that they spread and they destroy things.

Whenever something like, for instance, so many different Muslim sects in Indonesia are or were very moderate, very less disinterested really in kind of that kind of an evangelicalism. A lot of those might have been also tempered with Buddhist influences in the past, too. Of course. And Saudi Arabian Islamic sects have then

sent over different people in Indonesia to turn them, turn that Muslim situation- In the situation where Christians- In the same way they sent them to Africa and fucking murdered gay people, murdered gay people. All of this same shit is happening because these religions are fucking horrific. And that is not to say that everybody who believes in

Islam is horrific. In the same way that everybody who believes in Christianity is not horrific. But it is an ideology. It is a structure. Fundamental adherence to a structure such as any sort of religion, such as capitalism. Those sorts of adherences are outdated modes of being.

And they only ever breed horror. The ultimate end of all of these religions winds up with the apocalypse. And then if your religion winds up in an apocalypse, there's always going to be a certain group of people who think, well, it's my job to bring it about. Because it's the prophecy. So it's not as if I'm acting to do it.

The West has been struggling with for the last couple decades. It's not as if I'm trying to do it. It's that I have to do it because God tells me to do it. And people will always be fucking fooled by idiots like Alex or like fucking any number. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You'll have mouthpieces like Alex saying that, like, hey,

whether revelation is coming true or it's just a coincidence, this is biblical. Yeah, if Obama's the Antichrist, then Trump is the Antichrist, then George W. Bush is the Antichrist. It's always this guy is the apocalypse guy. Right, that rhetoric is unnecessary to deal with the actual problems. Now at the same time, everyone accuses everyone

of calling people Nazis. And sometimes they are. Yeah, I mean, it's well, that's the converse of that. No, people, some people are Nazis. And it turns out a lot of people are Nazis. So we got one more clip from December 29. And it's more about Alex being real disappointed in this interview.

He thought it was going to go better. He thought he was going to have this guest who confirms all his Michael Flynn based bullshit. Should not have gotten an actual scholar. Should have gotten a fake degree guy. And then he talks a little bit about the hack attack. And at the end of this, I will explain why I kind of think he might have actually been getting hacked.

And I'll tell you who I think it was. We got to stop because I need a snack attack. You know what I'm saying? Different hack attacks are being launched, some successful, some not successful, against him full wars right now. With him posting an article that Erdogan had fled into a U.S. military base and been overthrown.

Now, would you say that's because we're exposing Islamic Caliphate schools in the U.S. They're trying to overthrow Erdogan? You're not. Would you say it's because the Syrian electronic army, which is pretty much the Russians, keeps posting in full wars links on hacked sites like the Washington Post, the New York Times

and Barack Obama's personal Twitter. I didn't do that two years ago. I didn't do that a year ago. I'm not asking the Syrians to do that. I don't want that type of traffic. I don't want your life. Presidential Twitter. We got our own traffic.

We're not involved in criminal activity. Now, they are attacking these countries, so they've got a right militarily to do what they're doing. We're not involved. I'm an American. I'm not involved in the agency's nothing. But I basically talked to everybody because this is what's going on in the real world.

And we just had a guest on earlier that was just putting out the most ridiculous stuff. I'm nothing against the guy that's like, oh, the Russians are behind ISIS. Yeah, and I'm an Easter Bunny from Pluto. I mean, the former head of defense intelligence coming out and saying two months ago that they were ordered to help create ISIS

and protect them and it's wrong. You didn't say that even in that interview. So here's my theory. Okay. If the Syrian electronic army, as Alex is asserting, was Russia. Sia. What?

Sia. Fire meets gasoline. The Syrian electronic army. Hackers are swinging from the chandelier. All of their hair goes directly over their eyes. Nobody knows what they look like. So if the Syrian electronic army is Russia, which I don't think necessarily it is,

but if it is. Again, that seems more like a Merck situation. But if it is, let's allow that to be a possibility. Who knows? If that is the case, I would pause it that Russia is hacking Alex Jones' show because they're not idiots and they know what this doctor knows.

Now here's where it gets fanciful. I don't really believe this. Okay. I was gonna say, because I recall now that my, or maybe our explanation for their bullshit hacking was that PJ Dubs tweeted out some shit that he should not have done. Yes.

So they have to claim that it's a hack. Occam's razor tells us that it is covering their ass because they got some bad information and put up a bad story. And we're trying to lend credibility to the idea that they have a Turkish person on to talk about ISIS. Or they got some good information. You think Erdogan actually was at that Air Force base?

No, no, because PJW was tweeting about how there was a planned coup and Erdogan was hiding. Right, right. So it was just, he was just a year off. Well, it was about six months off. Yeah. So that's the other possibility is that he figured out,

or somebody gave him the plan. And Jenick told him a little bit too early. Exactly, yeah, yeah, yeah. Any of these things are possible. Look, the idea, look, what I want to say is that like, of course I think that they're faking the hack stuff. Of course. But if it is real, I don't think it's Turkey.

Of course not. I don't think it's some group trying to pretend to be somebody, I think it's, I think of course it's Russia. They're at this point hacking everybody. This is the end of 2015. That's true. They're in a hack fever.

They're going crazy with their, They're, Fuck it, why not? Throw it on the list. Like they got a whole checklist of people in a hack. Their campaigns are going buck wild, to a certain extent. And so the idea that they would be like,

he's going to interview this guy who knows that some of our retired generals are running ISIS cells. Why wouldn't they? Why wouldn't they try and fuck with that? I mean, his Skype does end up going down. That's not proof of anything, but it's kind of interesting.

But if their idea is to shut down the Skype, that's a terrible idea. Like what you would want to do is, attempts to shut down the site were unsuccessful. Infowars got too good of security apparently. Sure. Again, it's fake. Of course it's fake.

It's all, it's all fake. It's all fake. I was just trying to have fun. Yeah. Oh well. Anyway, the bottom line is that Alex Jones accidentally got a smart person on his show. And it did not go well.

And couldn't handle it. No. I just love, I think that Alex Jones greatest quote of all time will be, just says volumes. So much. It's so clear. So full of shit.

So, but the only thing about that is that suggests to me that Alex does believe his bullshit, at least in this situation. Not to me. Really? So you think he's angry because he is not being. No, that's what I'm saying. It's not necessarily anger, I don't think.

No, but it's. I interpret to be, I'm not good enough at this to figure out how we spin out. Like that is frustration as a propagandist, I think. That's how I hear it is like, I've hit a brick wall. We're two minutes away from a break. I don't know what to do. I thought that this question was going to lead to him saying,

well, I did talk to one guy who said that the United States is, but it turns out, no. What I hear in that is, I am not getting what I believe to be true to be confirmed by this guy who I have already insisted is an expert. He's super credible. So either I have the choice of. It's embarrassing.

But leaving him and saying, oh, that's interesting. Or I have the choice of being Alex Jones and being a whiny little bitch about it and kicking you off my show. Well, I also want to tell you. So that suggests belief to me. I also want to tell you one other little piece of information that I've withheld.

Okay. On the 29th, this interview that went really terrible happened before the interview with Steve Pachennick. From the 29th. Okay. So if he was going to question things and be like, oh, Russia is, you're saying that, you know,

there are some Russian forces that are behind ISIS. I've got to rethink everything. Then he's got to dovetail that into an interview with Steve Pachennick. Right after that, I would posit that those moments where he almost realizes he's getting played are the aftermath of this interview with Dr. Yala not going well at all.

Right. And him talking to Steve Pachennick and the colonel possibly of like, what the hell is this wrong? So again, that suggests belief to me. His belief has been shaken, not his propaganda. And so when he's talking to Pachennick, now he's getting his belief back into it.

All right, Dan, all right, Dan. No, I think I'm shaking your belief that this is bullshit this time. No, it's just such complicated bullshit it's very difficult to unpack exactly what is being expressed and what the line is. I think it's possible that his belief is being shaken a little bit.

And Steve Pachennick coming on is a little bit of a booster shot in some way. See, that's kind of the narrative that I'm getting out of this. Possible, it's possible. I don't know. Bottom line is that I believe that December, 2015 was a month that destroyed our country.

Right. I think that there was a chance for Alex Jones to become an anti-hero and he fucking blew it. He fucking blew it real hard. He never had a shot. No, I think he did. It was too late, it was too late. No, I think the redemption was possible.

No. I think even a very dumb man who believes that the Civil War was about tariffs. Going through our investigation has made me believe that he never had a chance. Maybe, maybe- See, that's what's fucked up. That's what's fucked up.

Maybe if Rand Paul had at any point been one of the top three, maybe we'd be in a different situation. But since Rand Paul was down at the bottom and stayed down at the bottom, who else was he gonna go to? I'm crossing my arms right now very aggressively at you. It doesn't seem very aggressive.

For a couple of reasons. You're really bad at being aggressive. I have to hold this mic too. You need to be more assertive with yourself. The reasons that I'm doing that are like, there have been elections where he's just stayed out of it. So even if he's not pitching for Rand, because he can't stand, if Rand falls out,

it doesn't necessarily mean that he would just have to choose somebody in an election. He's done that in the past. So that's one piece why I think he has a chance. Second, you haven't experienced what I've experienced in terms of listening to the nigh on hundreds of hours of Alex Jones. Oh, are you trying to say you're some sort of expert

or some bullshit? And I don't know anything about Alex Jones? Ask Gladwell. Is that what you're trying to say? Are you a 10,000 hour raising me? I'm close. But the reason that I bring that up is that in my investigation,

I've listened to a bunch of old stuff too. In addition to this 2015 stuff, because every now and again, I've been trying to find stuff from 2008, 2009, that would be a good episode. And you see a different man then. You see, not, I mean, still deeply, deeply flawed. Deeply flawed.

Flawed organization. A bit of a bigot. There's no doubt about that, but you see a completely different person. Like there's an episode in 2008 I was listening to the other day where he sings along to the renegades of funk as they come in from commercial break.

He's like actually enjoying himself and having a great time. On that episode, it's right when Jesse Ventura gets his conspiracy theory show. They're going to pilot. And so Jesse Ventura is a guest on the show and Alex is like, he's so excited and bubbly about the idea that Jesse Ventura,

his friend is gonna get a conspiracy theory TV show. And he's like, look, I don't wanna be weird, but you should have me as a sidekick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. Of course, yeah. There's a cute bubbly, like laughing, like not fake laughing, like it's real. There's a sincere enjoyment of being this guy.

And I don't feel that anymore. I don't feel that in 2015. I don't feel that in 2017. I feel like he's a broken disaster of a person. And I do think there was a chance for redemption in terms of the lead up to this election. We see it very clearly in the stuff that we've gone over on this episode

as a bubbling point of all the stuff that we've seen in the last 20 episodes of the investigation. There are forces that are trying to manipulate him. There are forces that are, and I don't wanna take his responsibility out of it. He still is to blame for everything. But he had a chance to see that Steve Pachennik

and Roger Stone and who knows who else behind the scenes were lying to him in a concerted effort to get him to be their propaganda mouthpiece. Yeah. And if he had turned face on them, if he had hit the bad guy with a chair. Right, right. There is that possibility.

If he had given Steve Pachennik a gold star and sent him to his mouth. Or a stunner. Exactly. Maybe I watched too much wrestling. Good Lord! And maybe I watched too much wrestling and there is that idea that there is the villain's redemption

and the hero's downfall. Like all of these things are possible. But from everything I can see, he had a chance and it was in December and he fucking blew it. Okay, now here's my problem with that argument and that's from a personal place. That suggests to me that my parents had a chance.

I agree. To see through that Republican bullshit. Yeah, they did. They had a chance. Of course. So now... Of course they did. See, I just don't think...

If I... Every person's hinge point is different. Like who knows when it is in your personal, in your journey, in your life. I think everybody has a moment where they can go super bad or super good. And sometimes it's on a small scale. Like with your parents,

it probably only affects you. I mean, and some other people around them in their personal life. And the rest of my fucking family. Sure. It affects that, but that's small scale. With Alex Jones, he's a propagandist with millions of listeners.

He had the... It's the difference between with your parents, it's a twig breaking and the big scheme of things. And with Alex, it's a glacier falling apart. I see, I just don't think we ever had a chance. Or Alex ever had a chance. The moment the nominee was Hillary, they never had a chance.

Like, Hillary... But even if it was Bernie, he wouldn't have had a chance either because he's a socialist. I don't know, if you... For him, he could stay out of an election between Bernie and Trump. No, he couldn't.

Absolutely. His entire worldview is based on socialism leading to totalitarianism. Right, right, right. He would have to fight. But Bernie said shit. And Bernie was a white dude. Or at least Bernie was a...

Dude. I mean, he would have gone through... He would have gone through the Jew thing, maybe. But that's something that you... No, almost certainly. 100% he would have gone through. He would have been coded, but yeah. But that's not the same thing as Hillary.

I think they never... I think the Republicans never had a chance because of Hillary. Like, they were primed for the con man because they were so blinded by their hate for Hillary. I think that there are a lot of people who are like that. And Alex Jones, I think that is a... I hesitate to say exactly...

Which is not just... A large piece of it, but it is a piece of his journey. There is no doubt. But I don't... But that to me is wildly simplistic. The idea that most of what motivated him was anti-Hillary stuff. I think that was a part of it.

But I don't think that the whispers in the ear from Roger Stone and from Steve Pacenek were like, Hillary sucks. That's not... Hillary sucks, choose Trump. That's not what I'm saying. I understand that. But I'm saying that his motivation partially

is negative Hillary. But more of it is pro-Trump based on lies that he's been told about what Trump will do to the fake globalists. What he's going to do in the world stage. The idea that he's gonna whip everyone in shape and then leave office like so long. That's nonsense.

See, I disagree entirely. I don't think... Well, I don't disagree entirely. I think my view on it is of course not the simplistic... It's just that they hated Hillary. My view on it is that because of their hatred for Hillary as a linchpin of their belief system for 20 years, that is something that they could not abandon

without great personal destruction. So they were primed for the con man. Now, let me actually work, let me help your argument. Yes. Of the vicious weirdos, the rogues gallery that Alex Jones has, the one that he has never run afoul of and never gotten into any beef with is Larry Nichols.

Of course. All these other people like Steve Pacenek is now on the outs. I don't think that the two of them... I mean, we've documented the last three appearances, the two of them. Oh yeah, no, it's not gone great. And then now he's doing this Las Vegas is fake shit.

Now he's like, he's still CIA. So I think the two of them are probably not gonna be hanging in the near future. I'm not entirely sure. Ron Paul was on the other day and they had a fucking fight. And I don't know if Ron Paul is like, Alex, you're an idiot. I don't think that Ron Paul and him

are going to be tight anymore. Roger Stone's a different quantity. He's... He now knows... Roger Stone's an amorphous blob of whatever the fuck he wants to say. He knows where his bread is buttered and he's in too deep. He's a part of Info Wars now,

more than he is a part of Trump shit. So he's sort of irrelevant. Of all these like old time weirdos, really the one who never is the problem is Larry Nichols and he's the Hillary guy. So... And it's not to say, like it's not to say that's the reason the...

I think that what I'm trying to get to is... It's the most attractive, most universal argument. It is that. But I mean more of in the house of cards of their belief system, which is nonsense. And any little thing, any little thing can be torn down. You know in house of cards.

No. Kevin Spacey killed a dog. No. He killed a dog. So did Alex Jones. Did Kevin Spacey kill Nock? Yeah. In that first episode, Kevin Spacey kills Nock.

That's what the British... That's what the British one was about. It was about Alex Jones. Yep. We cracked the case. Absolutely. No, it's like anti-Hillary was the cornerstone. If you pull that, then everything falls.

So they didn't have a chance because they could not pull. If you actually get those people to say, well, Hillary would be better than Trump. That means Hillary is better than somebody and they cannot believe that. They can't abide by that because that would destroy their,

she is the worst human being ever narrative. And if that takes that down, then that suggests to them that maybe there is a career politician who is better than a non-career politician. Any of these people, for them to not vote, the people who hate Hillary so fucking much, for them to not vote against her is insane to them.

Yeah. That's possible. That's compelling. Which again, is why he could not sit out this election. He's been fighting Hillary for 20 fucking years. He hasn't. His associates have. He gets distracted at times.

Right, right, right, right. He's fighting the globalists and granted Hillary is one of them. Hillary is one of the chief globalists. She's also a witch. Right. She and the real housewives of New Jersey. No, no, it was Linda Bloodworth Thomas.

Doesn't matter. They're all the same fucking thing. Design and women. Yeah. The only rebuttal I would make to that because I mostly agree with what you're saying is that even if anti-Hillary stuff is the cornerstone, the other stones, without them, you don't have a building.

Our Roger. You don't have a building. The other Roger stones. Right. You don't have a building without the other stones. No, of course. Even if there's one that holds everything up, the other ones are necessary for the construction.

Agreed. And those other ones are, I mean, they're all, I mean, it's all lies, but. Absolutely. No, I. It's fascinating to me. I mean, I want to get back to the episode that we just did. Right.

Because I mean, this conversation is good and all, but like. It's not as though we've, it's not as though nobody has ever had the autopsy of, people really hated Hillary. Right. That's a little. That's not a groundbreaking analysis there.

It's a little pat, you know. It's been covered. Absolutely. And I don't discount that at all. I think that there is a massive truth to that. But the other thing is that. It, what we, what we've just witnessed in this episode is Alex Jones be, he's very willing to be lied to.

And. Is so opposed to the idea of someone impugning Russia. Like I want to bring that back here really quick. Yeah. In the sense that that is the only thing he really contests in Dr. Yehla's. True. Testimony as it were.

Like he doesn't even rebut necessarily the idea that there were Syrian oil fields that Bashar al-Assad sent people to fix so they could sell oil to, so ISIS could sell oil to. Of course. He doesn't even respond to that except to say, Mike Flynn says that US is behind it. Yeah.

That's true. The only thing he's like, this is stupid. Is the idea that Russia is involved. Yeah. I'm not going to argue that. But to me, that indicates to like. It's much more problematic. Is it that or is it that he just doesn't know a goddamn thing

about the other things that he said? Like he doesn't know anything about Turkey. He doesn't know anything about Syria really. He doesn't know anything about Iran. He doesn't know anything about these people. Russia is the only thing that he does think he knows anything about. Right.

The only thing that he does think he has concrete information on. Because people like Steve because they could probably told him things behind the scenes. Of course. About clandestine agreements that aren't true. Absolutely. So he thinks he has that piece of information.

Right. Which is why he would be confident in fighting back against it on that point alone. Cause if he starts saying Iran and Syria, he's fucking off the reservation even for him. You know, if he starts going like, here's my theory on Syria, you're done. You know?

Yeah. Frankly, he has no idea what Bashar Assad actually does. No. He thinks that he wants to go back to Britain. Look, I mean, we're spiraling a lot and it's, it's, I know. It's just there's so many different. It's fucked up.

Yeah. Exactly. It's so fucked up and it's not like, I mean, we can come back to this a hundred different times, but it's like, okay. I get it. Yeah. I'm going crazy.

That wasn't my entire point. But no, like I get, I get the idea that people think, like I have friends who are like, what are you doing? I run into people I used to do stand up with and they're like, what have you been doing? I'm like, I've been studying Alex Jones pretty intensely for the last 10 months. Yeah.

Like you're nuts. To the exclusion of just about everything else. Mostly. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But the reason is because I am intensely convinced that this is the thread that is the loosest.

Right. It really is. Now granted, a thread that's way looser is like, if we could hack Breitbart's emails, right? Like the bright Buzzfeed didn't hack them. No. They got those emails.

They were linked. Yeah. And if we could get a data dump like that, it would be so much easier. But since we are going on context clues and his actual words, I legitimately think that this is the loosest thread that unravels everything.

And I think that from experience, from listening to him, from understanding what he's talking about, and people even who like, there are so many people who discount Alex Jones and they're like, oh, he's just crazy. He's just crazy. There are people who who,

there are people who think that they know something about Alex Jones, that don't know who Steve Pacenek is. Right. There are people who think like, oh yeah, fuck that guy. They don't know who, they don't know Roger Stone's influence.

Right. I know what you were talking about earlier. Oh, and Shroyer, you didn't know how to spell his name. And you do a podcast about info wars. That was more a pronunciation issue, not a spelling issue. I've always pronounced it Shroyer. I know, but to me, I hear Troy. That's cause Vince, Vince Troyer.

It's your thing of a mini me. Oh. Okay. Okay. All right. But like, there, there, I'm, I'm maybe going crazy a tiny bit, but the only reason is I'm a hundred percent convinced

that these circumstantial pieces of evidence build up to a very compelling argument. And the compelling argument is that there is a group called the 45 group that Roger Stone and Steve Pacenek have admitted to being a part of on Alex Jones's show. Right. That are way more interested in Russian interests

than they are in American interests. Right. So what they have done is concoct a crazy bullshit narrative that they have convinced Alex Jones is true and they're using him because I mean, let's go back to our first fucking episode. One of the things I made very clear on the first episode is that Alex Jones is incredibly talented.

Yeah. He's very good at this propaganda game that he plays. Yeah. And I don't, I don't, I don't take that back at all. A hundred and something episodes into this. He's very good and they recognize that and are using him as a weapon. Now, your point that he had no shot

and there's no chance that things could have gone better, that is a difference of opinion and you might be right, I might be right. Agreed. It's possible. Yeah, I'm not gonna, I'm not going to try and take down your argument either. No, no, it's also a glass half full, glass half empty.

Of course. Of course. But what's not is if you were trying to pull off a massive scam, if you were trying to do something really fucked up. Alex Jones is an amazing person to have on your side. Yeah. I mean, I think.

And why wouldn't they get him on his, it's all becoming so clear. I think our ultimate disagreement on this is nothing to do with any of the circumstantial evidence that we have put together. It is that I just have such a hard time accepting that they actually pulled off this Ocean's 11 scam. But that's, that's-

Like that's- But that's where Cambridge Analytica- I know, I know, that's what I'm saying. It is such an amazing thing to me that they would actually be able to pull off the heist of the century. Well, but that's- And steal the presidency.

Here's the thing, they didn't. Cambridge Analytica and the Mercer's did. Yeah. They did the actual bank heist. Right. Alex Jones is distraction. Alex Jones is the person who is running the, hey, look over here.

Right, right, right. And the reason that it gives away the bank robbery is because he's so obvious about it. Yeah. That is the point I'm trying to make, I believe, that we've accidentally stumbled into. Right. The perfect metaphor for it.

Okay. Ocean's 12 or Ocean's 11, I can't remember which movie is which. Right. But like, the people who are actually cracking the safe are Cambridge Analytica, Jared, you know, these folks are the people who are actually the ones who were involved in it.

And Alex Jones is the twins. The Casey Affleck and what's his fucking face? Kahn. Yeah. Jimmy Kahn's son. Of course, our analysis winds up being the brother of a famous person and the son of a famous person.

Yes, exactly. It makes perfect sense considering the world we live in where the brother of a famous person and the son of a famous person are fucking us over. But if we're looking at this in terms of like, you know, a lot of really serious people only want to focus on what happened to the safe. Yeah.

And I think that's a very valid point of investigation. And quite frankly, I think it's a part of investigation that I can't help with. Yeah. And I wish everyone well. I wish Mueller well. I wish all the... Oh, we're fucked.

He's not going to do shit. Probably not. But I wish everyone who's looking at that, well, I can't help. But what I can help with is review the tapes from the casino where there's people acting real weird right at the same time as the fucking bank robbery went down. And I can say, huh, interesting.

Let's listen to what they were doing a couple months before. And oh, it turns out they've recorded all the things they were doing a couple months before and they're basically laying out everything that ends up happening. And so... So we're saying PJW is the guy with the bad cockney accent. Is that what's going on here?

What's it? He's Don Cheedle. Don Cheedle, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's the demolition's expert. It's all gone bounty. All right, great job, Don. Look, I don't know.

I think we're spiraling way out of control. But... I know. I'm just so unbelievably fascinated, horrified by all the stuff that we've talked about. And it's such a leap to me. It's such a jump that I have to be skeptical. Otherwise, I feel like I'm gonna start getting

into a place of magical thinking all the time. No, totally. Skepticism is very healthy. Right, so I have to push back against this because it suggests a competency that I am just so unwilling to accept from all of these people. If they were actually this competent,

if people were actually this competent, it seems as though a lot more would get done. But from my understanding of so much of history... Where's the competence? Well, they pulled off the heist of the century. I mean, you're talking about Pachennic. You're talking about Pachennic and Stone. No, I know that.

But you're talking about them being capable of executing this years-long disinformation campaign against Alex Jones without breaking once. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Without ever breaking character. You're misinterpreting some things. I mean, if Jimmy Fallon can't even go through a single SNL sketch without breaking.

You're misinterpreting a few things. Okay, all right. Steve Pachennic's involvement in this scam is probably much more recent than his entire history on Infowars. It's not like he was there years planted in advance. We're in 2015. I'm still talking about that.

But we're still talking about the same people being part of Infowars now. All they needed to do was like, all they needed to do was hit the gnaws right at the right time. They just had to hit that booster at just the right time and they did. That's the entire race.

They're still going with it. Like Stone hasn't even given Alex an inkling of like, hey, by the way, I fucked you over. That's because Stone has realized like this is a better gig. Well, yeah. Like he's realized, I think that like Infowars is where I fucking belong. I'm a dirty, sleazy fucking dude.

This is much better for me. I make money, selling supplements out the ass. This is great. We're conning people. Why would I want to be involved in politics? Yeah, that's true. I imagine he's just made the jump. That's what it seems to me is what's going on.

It's much lower stakes. It's not going to get him in front of the house, fucking intelligence committee again, most likely. I think that Steve Pachennic has gone off the reservation. He's going nuts with the, like he's doing his own game now to the point where he doesn't even give a fuck that Alex believes him, screaming to him on the hurricane day and now with like,

oh, hey, let's double down on fucking Sandy Hook. And I'm going to fucking talk to David at night about how you're a coward because you got intimidated out of Sandy Hook truth. Pretty hilarious. Like I think the entire operation in that sense has deteriorated. I don't think it matters anymore.

They did the job that needed to be done. Now Alex is still fighting like a guy behind enemy lines who doesn't know the war has ended. He is a guy who's still on Team Trump because he's changed friends. And now his friends are these trolls. His friends are the Mike Cernovich's. His friends are Jack Pasobiec.

These people who, like they aren't ideological, they're not smart, they're not strategic in the same way that Roger Stone, Steve Pachennic, to some extent, Larry Nichols, are. Alex is just, he's in a new ocean now, but it's the same ocean in as much as he has the same boat. And the boat is what Roger Stone gave him earlier and that is the Trump boat.

And it's a lie. That metaphor fell apart. It didn't go well at the end though. Not proud of it. You had a great, great jump. You dove perfectly and then you did a belly flop and you executed a triple, oh, landing terrible. Not great, not great.

I mean, it's just, we have so many, we have such a cast of characters who all seem pathetic whenever you reveal all of this stuff about them. True. And it's hard. They are. Yeah. They're not, not.

No. And it's just, because you put out a compelling argument, you really do. Like I have no, I have no real like, oh, well I can put a little hole in this here and a little hole in this there that would deflate your balloon entirely. I think there are some places

where maybe you've gone a step too far or not, but you know, that is part of the game. Sure. I just have- World War games. Yeah. I just have a hard, like a version to accepting

that these people could actually pull it off. Like it seems as though- I think it's probably way easier than you're pretending. I know, but it seems as though if they could pull this dumb shit off, people could pull up, I don't know. Maybe I'm just misreading so much of-

I'm thinking about a lot of the scams that have been pulled off. I know, now the more I think about it the more I'm leaning towards what you're saying is true. Look at what just came about Harvey Weinstein. I mean, that and what happens with tons of these really powerful dudes. Like that stuff is, I mean,

it is a little bit reductive and insulting to call it a scam, but on some level, the serial sexual harassment of women who are your subordinates or you're in a power position, that is a scam that you're pulling. It's a much more personal scam, but it is and the cover up of it is another scam.

And that happens all the time. The idea that these people, those people aren't really that smart. Harvey Weinstein isn't that smart. He's offering to masturbate in front of people. Here is your- You understand? Here is your best defense.

Smart, it's smart doesn't matter. Paying people who are good at covering stuff up and manipulating people is what does the work. The people who are behind the scenes doing the PR work are the people like Steve Pochett. Like Roger Smith. Here's what I got for you. Here is your simplest defense.

When powerful people are insulated from any consequences of their action, why the fuck wouldn't they do it? Right. Like just like when you brought up Weinstein, that's the thought that I had. If you are insulated, like even now, his worst consequence is,

oh, I retire with my billions of dollars. Like if you're insulated from any actual consequences, why the fuck not play this game? You're bored. Right. That's what it really is. There are no stakes for you. It's like gambling.

Right. And that may explain some of Trump's motivations. Yeah. And then you go into what we already talked about about Manafort and- Right. No, these people need to go to jail or nothing's going to-

There's probably some people who are insulated from consequences and some people who are desperate to avoid consequences. Right. And they're coming together in a terrifying fashion. Yeah. Let's wrap this up.

I think that's really the ultimate point of all of this is that whenever people are insulated from consequences, who gives a fuck? Perhaps. Anyway, Jordan's been fun. This is always fun. We've rambled a long time here at the end.

I just love doing this podcast. It's fun. Fucking much. It's fun, except when- Even when you get angry at me, Dan. And I'm sorry about that. Just interrupt me. Lesson will be great.

Hold on one second. Let me just put Cthulhu right in front of me This episode's not going to be a video episode. I know, but now we can talk. So people can find us at our website, knowledgefight.com. Absolutely. You can also follow us on Twitter at knowledge underscore fight.

Yes. And we are on Facebook. Go to iTunes. Leave a review. Also, we will be tonight. We'll be live on Twitch. But thank you all for listening. We appreciate it.

I would like to do our bit, but I'd be honest, I got to piss really bad. Yeah. No, I understand. There's this guy. His name's John Rapaport. He can go fuck himself. What's his name?

He can go fuck himself. Go fuck yourself, John Rapaport! Andy and Kansas, you're on the air. Thanks for holding. Hello, Alex. I'm a person of color. I'm a huge fan. I love your work.

I love you.