Life Kit - A beginner's guide to bartering

Episode Date: April 1, 2025

Bartering can help you mind your budget and build relationships with your community. In this episode, we cover how to suggest bartering as an option and make the exchange feel fair. We'll also share stories of successful trades.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Hey, it's a Martinez a lot of short daily news podcasts focus on one story, but sometimes you need Thomas for up first on NPR We bring you the three top world headlines every single day in under 15 minutes because no one story can capture all that's happening It's the mundo tangrande on any given morning. So listen to the up first podcast from NPR. You're listening to Life Kit from NPR. Hey everybody, it's Marielle. Alana Hurley was born and raised in Southwest Alaska in a village of about a hundred people. My grandma made the best traditional smoked fish. Like her traditionally smoked salmon was just the best. Alana is a Yupik and she grew up with her grandma. One day, her grandma needed some maintenance work done around the house. She was a widow and she had struck a deal with a tradesman who worked in a local salmon cannery.

A non-native man who came to the property to help out. I took the smoked salmon out to the tradesman who was, I think he was fixing her smokehouse and the maqiwik and a few other things. The fish was payment for his work in the form of a barter or trade. I just remember he immediately took it out and he was like, oh, I love this stuff.

And he just immediately started eating it. Alana's grandma used bartering as a way to meet her needs. You know, she was just a super sharp lady and thought I know how to get this done. And she got it done in a way that made both parties happy while also sharing a part of their culture, traditionally smoked salmon. And you know, my grandma's generation

was the first generation to see non-native people in Alaska, or, you know, one of the first generations. Colonization and contact is still very fresh in Alaska. So, you know, this is something that was like sharing a piece of who we are with someone who was not from our community, who had skills to trade too. You might not have seafood available to barter, but bartering happens in a lot of different ways. You can barter for babysitting and home cooked meals and rides to places, and tap into your own skills and abilities to offer something in return. Maybe that's giving someone singing lessons or a haircut,

helping them make a budget, or offering a little muscle, helping them beast a budget, or offering a little muscle, helping them beast a new couch up the stairs of their apartment building. Although bartering may seem like a bit of a throwback, I promise you it is relevant, especially since prices have gone way up in the past five years. You may even be doing it already without realizing it. Bartering can help you save money and build relationships, and on today's episode, reporter Kyle Norris gets us started with Bartering can help you save money and build relationships. And on today's episode, reporter Kyle Norris gets us started with Bartering 101.

That's coming up after the break. This is Tonya Mosley, co-host of Fresh Air. You'll see your favorite actors, directors, and comedians on late night TV shows or YouTube. But what you get with Fresh Air is a deep dive. Spend some quality time with people like Billie Eilish, Questlove, Ariana Grande, Stephen Colbert, and so many more. We ask questions you won't hear asked anywhere else. Listen to the Fresh Air podcast from NPR and WHYY. These days there is a lot of news. It can be hard to keep up with what it means for

you, your family, and your community. Consider This from NPR is a podcast that helps you make sense of the news. Six days a week, we bring you a deep dive on a story and provide the context, backstory, and analysis you need to understand our rapidly changing world. Listen to the Consider This Podcast from NPR. My landlord raised the rent about a year ago, and it bummed me out. I just thought, there have to be other ways to do this, outside a cash-based system. I remember when I moved in, my landlord had asked if I'd be game to cut the lawn in exchange for cheaper rent. Now I hate lawn work, and also I'm very allergic to grass, so no.

But that made me aware she was open to bartering. And most of us have bartered before, even though we might not have thought of it that way. For example, have you ever gone on a road trip where one person did the driving and another person made the itinerary, someone else took care of the food? Or maybe you picked up your neighbor's mail for a week when they were out of town, and when they got back, they cooked you a meal. Those everyday examples are forms of trading or bartering. So I thought about what kinds of skills I could offer in a barter and that's our first takeaway. Do a little inventory and think about the things in

your wheelhouse you're willing to trade that other people might want. These could be skills you use to make a living or it could be something creative. That's what Cindy Benitez says. So think about the kinds of crafts that you have or things you might have surplus of, any skills you're really good at, and get creative with it. So if you have a craft or a hobby, maybe it can pay. And also, with the way that things are going,

maybe get chickens, start bartering eggs. Cindy helps run a giant barter fair in North Central Washington state. It's called the Okanagan Family Barter Fair, and there's a spring fair and another in the fall. And in total, about 10,000 people show up, ready to barter their goods and services. Cindy makes homemade soap that she uses to barter at the fair. The more I thought about it, I realized I have all this nice recording equipment as an audio journalist that I can use to make high quality recordings.

I also happened to know that my landlady had just written her memoir that she was self-publishing about embracing her sexuality as a senior citizen. And side note, I read it and it was outstanding. So I pitched her the idea that I could record her reading some excerpts from her memoir, and then help her post the recordings to her website as a way to promote the book. And I would do this for a few hours per month in exchange for not having to pay the increase in rent. She said yes, and we've been doing this, and it's been lovely getting to know her

better and getting to do something I love, which is record people, while sidestepping the whole cash issue. Back to that barter fair. It's been going on for 50 years. It's like a giant flea market, a giant craft fair, and a giant farmers market all rolled into one. That's the fair's founder, Michael Polarski, but no one calls him that. Michael, for this, would you like me to call you Michael or would you like me to call you Skeeter? Oh, Skeeter would be best because that's how the barter community knows me. Skeeter says at the fair, people barter everything from food to furs to jewelry to massages to haircuts to web design, to jewelry, to massages, to haircuts, to web design. And there are even some big ticket items.

I remember a guy who came with a really nice, I wouldn't necessarily mean a race car, but a real racy car on a trailer. And I forget what he bartered for it, but you could see buses and vehicles and some pretty big ticket items. To back up, somebody showed up with a race car to the barter fair and they're like, I'm ready to barter the car. Do you remember what happened at all? No, I could make something up, but no.

But I do remember in the photo I have of the race car, there was also a really big pile of melons on the trailer too. So they were bartering the car, plus they were bartering melons. It's also important when you're bartering to think about the kinds of things you want, says Cindy. I make a barter list and I'll use like a chalkboard, you know, or a poster and it'll say the things I'm looking for. Her list includes tea, honey, earrings, scarves, and pretty stones.

Now, you might not have a chalkboard, but you can make your own list and offer it to people. You can even include the things you want and the things you're willing to offer. On my dream list of wants, I would love it if someone could teach me how to make electronic dance music. The people who live in this region of Washington State barter on a regular basis.

This area is known as apple country, and Cindy says that industry has been struggling. Bartering is not just practical, it's somewhat a necessity for survival. Bartering can help lighten the load financially. Cindy says one way she does that is by trading her handmade soaps with a family of hunters. You know around October when they're done hunting they'll get a hold of me and they'll say we have deer fat and we have some meat for you and I'll trade them for the deer fat and render it and then make soap and then I trade them back part of the soap.

Once you have a sense of the things you have to barter and the things you want, you need to find other people down to trade. Here's Skeeter. So starting out from scratch where there's you're just surrounded by strangers would be pretty tough. It's nice to generally have a community of people that you work with. And that's takeaway number two. Look close to home for people to barter with. Think neighbors, friends, co-workers, and groups you're already a part of, like religious or community organizations, and then reach out. Alana Hurley, whose grandma made that delicious smoked salmon, often travels to work conferences, where she meets other Alaska natives from different parts of the state with different

traditional foods, like folks from southeast Alaska. And I know they have a very specific type of herring egg that we really like, or they do it a little differently than we do. And I know that they don't have something like salmon or smoked salmon in the types that we have. And so I might say, hey, do you do this? Are you open to ever trading? And there is a rich tradition of bartering and trading in Alaska Native communities that's

been happening for thousands of years and happens a lot now via social media. People often barter food, think moose, caribou, clams, and crabs. And I think people get excited about it. They're like, yeah, yeah, of course. Of course we should do that. You know, that sounds great. Alana has this suggestion as a way to dip your toe in the bartering waters. If you're in a situation where you would normally pay cash, try suggesting a barter to the other person. If I were going to do it, I would say something like, we could do this in cash, you know, if that's an option. Or I have maybe a more exciting or intriguing idea. What about

trading or bartering for something? You know, do you want to talk about that? And I feel like that pricks people's ears like, ooh, intriguing. What could we trade? People could say no, but the goal here is to open the door to the possibility of bartering. Jan Nelson did not have to look too far to find someone to barter with. She lives on a small lake in Wisconsin, and her family started bartering with the neighbors when they moved in next door 40 years ago. So we would borrow their rototiller and give them some veggies, and they would accept some wood from the trees that we took down because they also had a wood stove. Because they live out in the country, the neighbors have given each other rides to

places over the years, like to medical appointments. Here's Jan's approach to bartering. Well, number one, be brave and reach out. I'm not as social as some people, so I found it a little more difficult. After she reaches out, Jan asks for a favor. Whether it's, could I possibly borrow your hose because mine has a hole in or something. And then you can return that favor, but one up it, give them something that is

maybe more personal. By one-upping the favor, she means return the favor a little better. Jan likes to knit and has returned favors by giving her neighbors handmade mittens and hats. So you don't start out by saying, oh, you look like you need some help, but you start out by asking for help and then returning it in kind plus one. Several years ago, Jan's husband unexpectedly landed in the hospital, and she did not have a car at the time. She asked her neighbor for a ride, and he dropped everything to take her to the hospital, and he helped everything to take her to the hospital. And he helped her stay calm in the car ride there.

Jan says her life has been enriched by the relationship she's developed with her neighbors, a relationship that started because of bartering. And Jan considers her 40-year barter arrangement informal, meaning it happened organically, and there's never been an official bartering conversation. And that's something to consider when you start. Think about your bartering arrangement, which is takeaway number three. For example, do you want something informal or formal,

short-term or long-term? Some people find a contract helpful, especially for long-term trades, like Theo Mendez. His background is in the business side of the music industry. contract helpful, especially for long-term trades, like Theo Mendez. His background is in the business side of the music industry. Theo's been bartering with his friend Jack, a musician, for two years. He teaches Jack how to market himself as a musician, and Jack has been teaching Theo music skills, like songwriting.

Before they started bartering, they didn't know each other especially well. So they came up with some guidelines. They cracked open their laptops and spent 30 minutes writing what they call... The Ten Commandments of Jack and Theo. They wrote down their goals, a timeline, and what they were and weren't willing to do as part of the arrangement. Then they had this commandment. We just called it it vibes are off. What happens if the vibes are off? Because I think it's always great to be really open

to things not being okay. And so we talked about like what we do if something feels off or like it doesn't feel good anymore. For example, one of the commandments they have is to call the person and not text when there's an issue. Theo says the point is compassionate communication and whoever is listening or on the receiving end, just listen and figure out where the other person is coming from. To be clear, Theo and Jack never had beef before they started bartering. And

things have continued to go smoothly because of the contract. It's been two years pretty much purely bartering and we've changed as people dramatically. I think our goals have changed and I think it's allowed us to stay in really great communication and really enjoy each other's help. Dio says bartering has also helped him to realize his own value and that he brings a lot to the table. Whether you opt for a contract or not, it can be helpful to have a conversation about your arrangement. Alana says you want both parties to know about the work that goes into a barter because

sometimes there's a lot of work happening behind the scenes. If you're trading with someone who you may not know what it took to, for example, like a woven earring, you don't know that they had to pick that very specific type of grass at a very specific time of year and go through all of these processing steps before they could actually do it and weave it into something beautiful. She says don't be afraid to ask the other person what they think would be a fair trade. I think at the end of the day, whatever the trade looks like, the bartering looks like,

you want it to be respectful and reciprocal of time and effort and energy. And that brings us to takeaway number four. If you barter with the skills you use to make a living, figure out your bottom line and how bartering fits into that equation. I'm thinking of you hairstylists and massage therapists and plumbers and carpenters among others. Jessica Gordon-Emhart is a professor at John Jay College City University of New York and an economist specializing in community economics. Her grandfather was a small-town physician originally from Jamaica and he practiced in Eastern North Carolina from 1910 to 1941.

Jessica says her grandfather took the Hippocratic oath of helping people seriously. So he often practiced medicine without getting paid in currency. And so sometimes he told his patients, it's okay, pay me when you can. But he also allowed them to pay him in produce because this is mostly a rural area. People paid for their medical appointments with chickens, maybe a pig, and with fresh fruit and vegetables. Jessica says her grandpa had done the math

of how much he needed to bring in from paying customers. Jessica- And as long as he had his paying customers, then he felt he was free to do as much barter and as much free services as his wife would allow him to. You could think about what percentage of your services you'd be comfortable bartering. And when you want the trade to be evenly matched, say you give someone a hundred dollar haircut for a hundred dollar massage. By the way, if you barter as part of your business, the IRS would like you to declare that on your taxes if it's more than six hundred dollars. On the IRS website, it uses the example

of a plumber exchanging plumbing services for the dental services of a dentist. Because those services are considered taxable income. But to learn the specifics, talk to an accountant. And also consider how much you can afford to do what Jessica's grandfather did, where the trade isn't necessarily an equal dollar amount, but it feels good to make that barter happen. Jessica did not know her grandpa, but she thinks as a person with some privileges, he felt bartering was a way he could share his abundance with others. So it wasn't that he was the great savior or somebody they were all indebted to, but they were giving what they could, he was doing what he could, and it was this reciprocal relationship of mutual respect and support.

Jessica says Barnering is part of an economic system known as Solidarity Economics that focuses on the ways in which human beings work together in non-capitalist ways. So the goals and values of Solidarity Economics is mutuality, prosperity for everybody. Jessica says all human beings need things and all human beings help people with other things. Bartering really allows us to get back to those roots as human beings who care about each other, who believe in reciprocity, solidarity, balance.

It helps us to connect back with who we really are and to revalue what it means to be a human being. Okay, let's recap how to begin your bartering journey. Takeaway number one. Do a little inventory and think about what you would offer in a barter. That might mean sharing a skill you already have. Maybe you're a swimmer, and you could teach someone to swim. Or maybe it's something you like to do. Perhaps you love vacuuming. Or something creative you like to make. And also think about the kinds of things you would like to receive in a barter. You can even make a list of all these things and share it with other people.

Takeaway number two. Look for folks to barter with who are already in your network and reach out. I mean, it can be as simple as saying, hey, you ever want to barter? Then think about your arrangement. This is takeaway number three. Is this a one-time trade or maybe something more long-term and ongoing? Like you're teaching your friend how to play guitar and they're giving you vegetables from their garden. Is this barter informal or formal? Definitely have a conversation about your arrangement and maybe even write up a simple contract. So folks are on the same page when it comes to what to expect.

Takeaway number four. If you are bartering with the skills you use to make a living, figure out your bottom line and how bartering will fit into the overall equation of earning your income. Historically, when times have been tough, more people barter. And Jessica says bartering works as an economic strategy, but it also ends up doing something deeper. In addition to it being sort of a necessity, a survival strategy, that it's also a strategy that brings joy,

satisfaction, helps us to regain a sense of humanity. That piece was from reporter Kyle Norris. For more Life Kit, check out our other episodes. We have one on how to start sewing and another on everyday negotiation. You can find those at npr.org slash life kit. And if you love LifeKit and you want even more, subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org slash life kit newsletter. This episode of LifeKit was produced by Claire Marie Schneider. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlin and our digital editor is Malika Gareeb. Megan Cain is our supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also

includes Andy Tagel, Margaret Serino, Sam Yellow Horse Kessler and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from Gilly Moon. I'm Mariel Sagara. Thanks for listening.