Life Kit - How to embrace the mess and teach your kids to cook

Episode Date: July 24, 2025

If you have kids, cooking with them might sound like a daunting prospect. But David Nayfeld, the chef behind the new book, Dad, What's for Dinner?, says cooking with your kids can create positive memories and help your kids build useful skills. In this episode, Nayfeld shares easy weeknight recipes to try with your kids and cooking tasks children can help with at any age. Yes, it might get messy, but that's OK if you're connecting and spending time together.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

When you walk into NPR headquarters, one of the first things you see is a big map of the country covered with little blue dots. Each dot represents a local public radio station. That's the NPR network. I'm Katherine Maher, CEO of NPR. With federal funding for public media eliminated, your network is under serious threat. Help us plan for the road ahead at donate.npr.org. You're listening to Life Kit from NPR. Hey, it's Marielle. Okay, picture this. You're in the kitchen making chicken cutlets and you've got a kid in the house, your child

or your niece or nephew, your grandkid, and they come up to you while you're wrist-deep in egg, raw chicken, and bread crumbs and say something like, You want to look at my drawing? Or You want to play catch? Or I'm hungry? Or Can I watch Bluey? Do you tell them to go in the other room and play?

Or do you get them involved? As any adult who takes care of a child knows, getting food on the table is a big part of the job. And often while we're doing that, the kids are in the other room waiting to eat. That's something professional chef David Neyfeld is trying to change with his cookbook. Dad, what's for dinner? For me, what the essence of the book is, is about how to reconnect with our families while everybody is in separate rooms, doing separate things on separate devices. You know, the kitchen can be the great unifier.

David could have written a very different cookbook. He's worked in a kitchen for nearly three decades, has cooked in some of the finest fine dining restaurants in the world, and opened Que Fico in the Bay Area, which was listed as one of the best new restaurants in America when it opened in 2018. But what David, who has a young daughter, really wanted to talk about was what people eat at home. And that was in the forefront of my mind because I had a child that I was raising

and my daughter's time became very valuable to me. David's new cookbook is full of family-friendly recipes, and the point is to bring everyone together to enjoy a meal, but also to embrace the process of making one, spills and all. As parents, we need to remember that we are always trying to be like, hey, I don't want a big mess or hey, God forbid, if they break an egg and a shell goes into the bowl.

OK, so what? Then you fish the shell out. Then you sweep up the flour. Then you wipe up the chocolate. It's not the biggest deal in the world. A little bit of a mess is totally worth the price of admission to that time spent with your child together,

building their confidence, building their palette, and building that relationship between the both of you. Recognizing that doing stuff together is really the fulfilling part. It's the satisfying part. On this episode of Life Kit, reporter Andy Tagel talks with David about the delights and difficulties of making meals with your kids at any age, how to set your family up for successful weeknight dinners, and why you don't have to shy away from spices on

your kids' plate. Hi, it's Katherine Maher, CEO of NPR. Federal funding for public media has been eliminated. That means that the NPR network is moving forward in an uncharted future. But our commitment to you will never waver. Please give today to support the kind of journalism that democracy relies upon. Make your gift at donate.npr.org. Thank you.

This summer on Planet Money Summer School, we're learning about political economy. We're getting into the nitty gritty of what government does with things like trade, taxes, immigration, and health care. So politics and economics, which are taught separately, they shouldn't be separated at all. I think you have to understand one to really appreciate the other.

So what is the right amount of government in our lives? Tune in to Planet Money Summer School from NPR, wherever you get your podcasts. You're listening to NPR because you're curious. You want to know what the world is like beyond the surface. NPR feeds that curiosity with stories from real people with real experiences and all the perspectives that come with them. It's our right to be curious and our prerogative to listen. So keep your curiosity alive, hear the bigger picture every day on NPR. At Planet Money, we know that economic jargon can sometimes feel like speaking another language.

Yeah, like arbitrage, alpha, autarky. That's just what's in the news these days. There's also absolute advantage, aggregate demand, aggregate supply. And this is just the ace. Oh, animal spirits. That's a pretty good one. Planet Money from NPR.

We help you translate the economy so you can understand the world wherever you get your podcasts. My personal struggle is that I have very little confidence in the kitchen and even less confidence about helping my small child navigate the kitchen. So thoughts to start for non-cooks like me. So, you know, I have certain isms that people who are in my life kind of make fun of me for eventually,

right, because you say something enough, they kind of like roll their eyes in the back of their head. But one of the ones that I often say is like, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. Don't wait for everything to be perfect to start. Sometimes you just need to get going and don't be afraid of burning the thing. Don't be afraid of under cooking the thing,

overcooking the thing. The first time I cooked for my entire family, I think I was about like eight or nine and I cooked fried chicken. If you can imagine letting an eight or nine year old fry. Wow. You know what I always say to people is it was the 90s. And so I fried chicken for my family and I made mashed potatoes because I had watched my aunt's boyfriend do the same

thing and it was spectacular. And I didn't even know you could have fried chicken outside of KFC. And I was like, this is this is incredible I'm gonna recreate this from my family. So the chicken came out raw And my mom was really really nice by and just took it in the oven and then everyone loved it afterwards and then no big deal Right. The truth is right like as long as everybody is In you know good spirits and just kind of like has a kind of funny bone about it Like you can get through even the toughest meals. But the thing that you have to remember is like set achievable bars for the time that you're doing it. If you are going to attempt to do something that is fairly ambitious

for you, don't do it with the backdrop of I need to get the kids in bed in 45 minutes to an hour. And if this all goes wrong, the whole night is haywire, right? You do that on a Saturday or a Sunday or a summer day where there's just more time to play around and it's all good. If the kids end up a little bit late in bed, if the routine gets thrown off, then it's fine. Can you walk us through some ways to start getting your kids involved and then, you know, graduating through the levels with, what might that look like? Yeah, sure.

So the thing is, you know, my daughter, almost at the age of two, was helping me stir things on the stove. For me, allowing your kids to do dangerous things carefully is so crucial to their development and their confidence in life. As parents, we want to eliminate anything dangerous from their path, but that's not the way life works, right?

And so they need to be able to do certain dangerous things in front of you. And what I would do when she was like two or two and a half and she was able to kind of communicate back to me is she would be stirring something. I would say, hey, point to the thing you cannot touch here. And she would point to the metal part of the pan. I'd say point to the thing you can touch. She would point to the wooden spoon. And I would say, what happens if you touch this? And she'd say, ouchie. Right? Okay, good. So she gets it. Now, I'm not walking

away from her at this point, stirring this thing. I'm watching her and letting her develop these things. Now, when you've got a super young kid, you know,, stirring this thing, I'm watching her and letting her develop these things. Now, when you've got a super young kid, you know, at two years old, I think that's the perfect time for them to do things like we used to make scrambled eggs with cheese in them. And so I would grate the cheese and then she would take the cheese and she put it in the pan and then I would help stir. And then we graduated to she was stir.

And then we graduated to, you know, a little bit older, she would grate the cheese, right? Even though you have to be very careful on the grater to make sure that the block of cheese is big enough to where their fingers aren't put near the grater. So take away one, don't let perfect be the enemy of good. If you're not great in the kitchen, pick easy to make, yummy looking meals

you can get excited about and learn with your kid as you go. And if you want more inspiration on just how to do that, we actually have a whole episode on how to get into cooking when you're not into cooking. To make sure you're setting up your little ones for success, calibrate for their age or level of coordination. There are lots of tools out there

that can assist with basic access and safety. Things like toddler towers that can help them reach the kitchen counter, kid-friendly knives. From there, David splits up risk into three basic categories. Level one risk is like no potential for ouchies, right? No potential for pain.

And so what that is, is you're picking basil, you're picking parsley, you're picking herbs, you're helping measuring things into teaspoons and cups, and you're using a whisk in a bowl to help make cake and things like that. Like all of those things have zero risk. And maybe the worst thing that happens is a little bit of something spills out onto the

counter or the floor right but there's no harm. Mess no harm got it. Yeah so the second level of risk is like we are just starting to introduce things that could create a very little ouchy but they are under control right so you have a peeler you have stirring a pot of soup. For you, you really just need to be cognizant of what your kitchen setup is, how tall your kid is, right? Like because it's like a little bit like a roller coaster ride if your kid is not this high, right, no matter what age they are,

like sometimes that becomes a little dangerous. Also, you have to recognize your own kid's coordination. Some kids are different level of dexterity. Sometimes that becomes a little dangerous. Also, you have to recognize your own kid's coordination. Some kids are different level of dexterity. The third one, that's when they can do things like, they can help use the mixer. They know not to put their hands in the mixer when it's moving.

They can pull things out of the oven and put them in the oven. We are cutting things that, you know, maybe are not overly difficult, right? Like I probably wouldn't give even our 14 year old we are cutting things that maybe are not overly difficult. I probably wouldn't give even our 14-year-old a sharp knife and tell him, hey, I want you to cut this butternut squash because it's a very hard vegetable to cut.

But what I would say is peel the onions and I want you to chop them up. Which, by the way, I always say this, I think onions and garlic are a terrific prep project for a teenager because it teaches them humility. And so that's the one, two, three kind of risk category. And once you graduate from like risk category three, you're off and flying,

you're ready to do whatever you need to do. When you're cooking with kids, you just have to accept that there is going to be mess. Like I'm thinking about the time I wanted to do pizza night with my son and I didn't like portion out the sauces beforehand. Then I, you know, I was like, he could probably do this. He could probably pour it out.

And instead it was like sauce all over. So I'm thinking just like any tips for how to accept mess and not, you know, lose the threat of your recipe or your whole night. Don't let that be the thing that stops you from your next pizza night. You did it, you learned. Did the world end? Did anyone die? The thing is, now, what are you gonna do next time?

Your son is gonna have a pre-portioned thing of sauce, and you're gonna say, great, put this on the sauce, and then you're gonna also be hyper-explicit. Put this on the sauce, put it right in the middle. Maybe you might guide their hand to start for a few times and not just let them freewheel it. These are all things you're gonna learn through the process. You have to accept there is a little bit of risk here.

It's fine. So he poured the sauce all over the pizza. Okay, accept your L, move on to the next pizza night. This is just a fact of life that when we're going through this, life is not tidy. Life is not perfect. You just got to be willing to accept that sometimes there's going to be a mess, right?

Might be the title of my next book, Sometimes There's a Mess, right? And that's just what it is. 20 years down the line, what would have been a better story? That your kid threw the pizza sauce all over the place and now it's a hilarious memory? Or is it, hey, they nailed it, it was perfect, I had a pizza, I forgot about it the next day. There are some days where you're like, hey, I need that frozen bag of ragu

that I made two months ago that's in the freezer because I've got 20 minutes here and I've gotta take a meeting after dinner. I'm not gonna let perfect be the enemy of good here. I'm pulling out the bag, I'm gonna defrost it, I'm gonna boil pasta, I'm not going to let perfect be the enemy of good here. I'm pulling out the bag, I'm going to defrost it, I'm going to boil pasta, I'm going to get ragu into the pasta, and my way of getting my kids to contribute

is I'm going to ask them to set the table. And then I'm going to ask them to clear their plates and bring them to the sink, and if they're old enough, I'm going to ask them to wash them too. That's going to be their contribution that night. Dinner's going to be done and dusted in 30 minutes, I'm going to be on to my meeting, and I'm not going to feel like I failed or compromised. Takeaway 2.

Yes, you should embrace the mess, but also, choose your projects wisely. Not every family dinner can or should be a five-course meal. So consider your time before picking a recipe, and remember that it's okay to get your family involved in different ways. Be it scrambling an egg or scrubbing the plates after dinner. Plan ahead as best you can and remember cooking together doesn't mean starting from scratch every night. What about grocery shopping? What about stocking your kitchen to have what you need for that inevitable question of what's for dinner? What are we gonna do for this busy Wednesday night? Do you menu prep for the week and then shop for recipes?

Do you have any suggestions or advice for how other parents can do this? My suggestion to you is that every Sunday, if Sunday is the day for you, maybe it's Saturday, sit down and you talk to whoever your stakeholders are in the house and then you talk about it your stakeholders are in the house and then you talk about it, you say, okay, great. Mondays is actually not that bad.

So what we're gonna do is we're going to order a bunch of chicken. We're gonna marinate chicken. We're gonna grill a bunch of chicken and then it's gonna be grilled chicken that we're gonna top with a little bit of pomodoro sauce and some melted cheese and we're gonna have breadless chicken parm.

But what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna make two times the batch of grilled chicken. And then next day, I'm gonna pack kids lunch. I'm gonna do a grilled chicken sandwich or leftover grilled chicken parms for them. And they'll love that. And I'm gonna take some of the grilled chicken that I didn't put the melted cheese on,

and I'm gonna put that on the leftover of the salad that in dress and I have my salad with my chicken for my next day. So each day is literally pun intended feeding the next day. There's so many lovely recipes in your book. Do you have a favorite go-to that you care to share? I would say the one that brings me the most joy is when you know my daughter and I make chocolate cake together It's definitely a little bit of a project but Having her make that cake with me, you know Like she was so like in awe of its size and everything and and the entire process is so fun and delightful

And I find it to be such a cool experience for them to see Starting from scratch something that is so magnificent that you can make. And then I really love the idea of being one of those families where you walk into the kitchen and there's just a cake sitting there with a glass cloche on it. And it reminds me of being my own little mini version

of Martha Stewart, where you're like, oh yeah, I just happened to walk into my kitchen, there's freshly baked cookies or cake or something like that. And I think that that's a really awesome thing to do. Now, obviously this is not something you're gonna do all the time, but it is such a like a mic drop moment in your kind of parenting relationship with your kids

when you guys can achieve something so special like that. Another thing that I think really, really is exceptional here is things like the spicy rigatoni. I have been big on developing spice in my daughter's palate and I think the best way to do that, if you like spicy food and you want your kids to also enjoy it, is from a young age, you just start adding a little bit,

just the tiniest amount. And then you just, you get to a point where they start to taste it and they start to crave it too. Now it takes time, right? Because the child's palate grows over time. And so I think recognizing that your kid's palate naturally is probably gonna reject spicy things at first. But if you slowly start to develop it,

they'll slowly start to develop a taste for it. Finally, take away three, remember cooking is about connection, not simply creating the perfect combination of proteins, vegetables, and carbohydrates. Whatever you choose to eat, the more ownership a kid can take of a meal, the more excited they feel about what they eat, the easier it'll be to encourage adventurous eating. As David writes to parents in the book, kids are kids, and their palates are both different and your responsibility to develop. Finally, before I let you go David, I want to bring it back to the genesis of the book.

I really like how you specifically reach out to fathers and share your personal experience as a single parent. I hadn't realized until I read your book how often cookbooks, family cookbooks seem to default to a mother or mother figure's point of view. Any last thoughts for us on how and why dads should claim space for themselves in the kitchen and beyond? I don't see enough messaging speaking to dads saying,

hey, let's arm you with the things that you need, right? And even generationally, you're not getting your dad talking to you about that, like, oh, son, come here, let me teach you about how I used to make this with whoever used to teach it to me. Now, I'm not saying that never happens, but it's certainly not the norm. And we don't talk to dads in the same way of saying,

hey, let me tell you how you need to prepare the home. Let me tell you how you need to get your kid ready for school. Let me talk to you about how you need to braid your daughter's hair. Let me talk to you about, you know, so many of these different elements, right? So I find a whole generation of men who really do want

to be involved. That is 100% their intention. Yet they come into the space with very little messaging, with very little resources, and frankly with a culture that's not gearing anything towards them. And so once we kind of recognize that, hey, this is something we need to start optimizing more towards and recognizing that we really want to make sure that everyone gets to fully participate. We also have to change the way we talk about it because dads are more involved. Dads are taking a bigger role in their kids' lives. And we want to encourage that because it's super important for everyone. And I think it also makes for happier families with less resentment. And I think that that probably feels like common sense to most people.

Thank you for the encouragement and for the inspiration. David, it's really been a pleasure. Thanks for your time. It's been my pleasure. Thank you so much. Okay, let's recap. Takeaway one, don't let perfect be the enemy of good in your family kitchen.

It's okay to learn as you go and to get your kids involved at any age. Little, little ones can sprinkle spices and mix bowls. Young kids can stir things on a stove or form meatballs for pasta night. Teenagers can slice, dice, and sear, just show them the way. Takeaway two, things are gonna get messy. That might mean batch meals on weeknights

and baking projects with the little ones on the weekends. And takeaway three, cooking is an opportunity for connection, not just sustenance. The more everyone partakes in the making, the more you'll enjoy the eating. That was reporter Andy Tagel talking to professional chef David Neyfeld. For more Life Kit, check out our other episodes. We have one on how to save money at the grocery store and another on meal prep. You can find those at npr.org slash life kit. And if you love Life Kit and want even more, subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org slash life kit newsletter. Also, if you have episode ideas or feedback you want to share, or you just want to say something nice to us, email us at lifekit at npr.org. This episode of

Life Kit was produced by Claire Marie Schneider. Our visuals editor is Beck Harlan and our digital editor is Malika Gareeb. Megan Cain is our senior supervising editor and Beth Donovan is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Margaret Serino and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from David Greenberg. I'm Mariel Segarra. Thanks for listening. To be clear, NPR isn't going anywhere, but we do need your support. Please give today to help keep rigorous, independent, and irreplaceable news coverage available to everybody free of charge. You can make your gift at donate.npr.org.

And thank you. It's been six months of the Trump administration and almost daily headlines about big policy changes. This week on Consider This, we're taking stock of what's really changed and what hasn't from immigration to education. And we're gonna unpack the controversy around Trump's nominee to a powerful federal court, and a possible shift in his approach to appointing judges.

Listen to Consider This on the NPR app or wherever you get your podcasts. The Fantastic Four are back again in a new movie, and it's an eye-popping good time. We've seen the story before, but this time the vibe is different. The Fantastic Four are back again in a new movie, and it's an eye-popping good time. We've seen the story before, but this time the vibe is different. It's brighter, set in a retro future with flying cars. Plus it stars Pedro Pascal and works for casual viewers and nerds alike.

We'll tell you why on Pop Culture Happy Hour, listen on the NPR app, or wherever you get your podcasts.