Life Kit - How To Make A Career Change, From Someone Who Has Done It

Episode Date: October 6, 2020

Making a career switch can be daunting — but it's doable. Audio producer Keisha "TK" Dutes breaks down how she made her own switch, and how you can too.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

I'm Keisha TK Dutez. I wasn't always a radio producer, but I am now. Before, for about 15 years, I was a licensed practical nurse. Yep, stethoscope, CPR, urine collection, temp checks, all that. It taught me a lot about how strong I was. It was intoxicating to be needed. It instilled a characteristic of dependability in me that I will never lose. It also paid for my college education, which helped me pursue my passion in media. And those regular paychecks, they definitely gave me a stability that I was scared to lose if I left. And yet, nursing just wasn't for me. The long hours, the toll on your body, and as a first

gen child of immigrants, I was born into a culture that had narrow views on what success looked like and fears of being broke that played into my choice to become a nurse right out of high school. I actually tried to leave twice. The first time I quit, I just knew that I was tired and this was not the vocation for me.

Even though I knew I wanted to be in media, I had no plan, no support, no idea how I would survive. Six months later, I went back into the matrix, feeling like I failed myself. Back to the long hours, the heavy lifting, the cold nights, and I made a plan. For a long time, part-time and on the weekends, what I was doing all along was working for free, gathering skills like learning how to edit, going live on air in New York City, and trying adjacent things like public speaking. A few years later, I finally felt confident that it was time. I gave my two weeks notice and never looked back. This is NPR's Life Kit. I'm TK Dutess, a podcast producer and host. Today's episode, making a big career change. And not to be all now more than ever, but really now more than ever. People are thinking about switching things up. I think 2020 really did make people press pause a bit on their lives and reflect, like, am I going the direction with this that I want?

That's Cynthia Pong. She's a feminist career strategist. But before that, she was a public defender. So she's walked the walk in terms of career transitions. Her clients now are facing big changes in their careers and come to her for guidance. There's also some people whose industry maybe got really decimated by the economic fallout. So they're in a place where they need to career change more out of necessity. So if the events of this past year have you thinking about different

career possibilities, this is the episode for you. I've invited some friends to talk about their big career changes, answer some questions and share advice. And right off the bat, here's some advice to reframe how you think about careers in the first place. The career is not a ladder anymore. That model no longer works for most industries. Rather, it's more of like a portfolio. So you do one job for a while, gain some skills, work with a team, and then when you do move on to something else, you bring all those experiences with you. Instead of a linear trajectory, you're creating a portfolio to show off all your experiences. Once you adopt that mindset, working towards a career move is going to feel a lot more doable. Okay, so you say you want to make a change but you're not sure what direction to go in

this is takeaway number one identify what it is you really need to change cynthia says you're gonna have to do a little soul searching what is making you miserable try to be as specific as possible is it the people you work with is it the schedule that you have to work? Is it your supervisor? And then you can do a little targeted problem solving. So if it is your boss, can you change to another department of your organization so you're working for somebody else and you're not around this person? Or can you leave to another employer within your industry so that you're working for another boss and a whole other set of people? But maybe it's not the circumstances of your job. It's the actual substance of the work.

In that case, can you lateral over into some other kind of role that's still related, but will at least, you know, be more interesting subject matter for you to be doing? Those things are all smaller moves, therefore less risky. Okay, so pivoting to something similar to your current job can be a good first step, but it doesn't always pay off. I have sort of made career moves to try to find avenues within the industry that I thought I'd be more comfortable in, but so far I haven't found it yet. That's Sam Miller, and the industry he's referring to is the industry, entertainment. Sam works as a producer in

television and advertising. He tried the pivot method, but still felt like he needed to get out and do something else. A lot of it comes down to personal values conflicting with the values of the industry at large. The only kinds of work that I really think would fulfill me are things that are service-based or fixing some larger issue. Sam's now planning to leave entertainment and forge a new career as an urban planner, but he's encountering a common problem. What do you do if the job you want requires you to have more experience or even go back to school? One of my biggest doubts is, is going to grad school really going to help me find a job?

And I don't want to go to grad school just to find a job. I'm really interested in these things. But that is something I have to ask is, will this make me more employable? Because I see a lot of job postings lately that require a master's and start at basically $15 an hour, which is ridiculous. That is ridiculous. And it really makes me angry. Here's Cynthia Pong again. It's not only investment of your time to get a degree, it's also going to be an investment of your money.

When people are thinking of going back to get more education or schooling or certification, my answer is don't do it unless you have to. Obviously, if you want to be a doctor, you need a degree and a residency and all sorts of traditional experience. But not all jobs are like that. My career switch didn't require more formal education. What it did require is me chasing a lot of new experiences. And that may be possible for your situation, too. This is takeaway number two. There may be a less traditional way to get the experience you need to make a big career change. Can you create a portfolio or something that demonstrates that you could do the urban planning job that you are applying for?

Could you get some experience in a volunteer or unpaid capacity and then have people be able to vouch for you? Like, oh yeah, Sam's really good at such and such. So like, you know, we should totally hire him next round or something like that. I would also ask around to find out what's the real deal. Like, okay, the job posting say X, but is that true? You know, do you really absolutely need to have this requirement for a master's? You might be thinking, well, a big part of going to school is meeting a network of people in your field. And yes, that's a big draw. But Cynthia says, and I definitely co-sign, that you might be able to cobble those relationships together

without the hefty price tag. Nowadays with things like LinkedIn or Google, you can build these relationships on your own. It is harder. It's not like getting handed to you on a platter, but it definitely is possible to make these relationships. And I honestly think that you stand a greater chance of being able to stand out if you do it in this independent, curated, piecemeal way. That shows determination, grit, you know, like you stuck with it. This is so true. You can be really strategic about who you talk to and which organizations you're trying to build relationships with. Here's another tip. If you do come to the conclusion that you need to go back to school, see if you can enroll in a class or two without committing to

a full program. Find your people at meetups and conferences and make yourself memorable. Having a spiel is great, but being of service is how I stood out from the crowd. I would notice in real time where I could be helpful at an event and just jump in and help after introducing myself. Also, don't discount the experience you already have. This is something that gets talked about a lot when people are making a big career transition. But that's because it's absolutely true.

Takeaway number three. You bring all your past experience and knowledge you've gained with you when you start a new job. And even if it's a vastly different field, you'd be surprised how much of that knowledge will apply. Those soft skills that I learned in bartending, those have definitely helped me in working with new clients. This is Kia Charisma. She's a friend of mine who lives in Dallas and has had a whole number of past lives. Kia was a marketing professional and then a bartender for a long time, but her dream job was to be a hairstylist.

And there were some things about that job that were tricky for her to transition into. I may live in Dallas, but all the hard wiring was done in Queens. I'm a New Yorker at heart, and I don't just go around talking to people just because. So I often joke that I was spinning my wheels when I was bartending, but that's not fair to say because I really feel like it helped me refine my people skills. There's a misconception that when you start a new career, you're starting from square one. And that's not actually the case. You've developed a lot of skills and some of those are specific to that kind of work, but a lot of them are totally transferable, you know, and the being able to survive and

continue to do the work when you are miserable is also a skill set in and of itself. Oh yeah. As a nurse, I learned about responsibility and reliability at its highest level. You don't just stop when the clock says stop. You stop when the story is done being told. In nursing, I learned about clear communication and documentation. This translated into my podcast production work because we need to be able to identify clear storytelling themes and have the tape to support it. So give yourself some credit. Speaking of credit, next up, money. This is takeaway number four. Like in all aspects of life, salary is going to factor into the decisions you make about your career. Cynthia says one of the

biggest mistakes she sees is people aren't facing the numbers. A lot of times we're too afraid to even look at our various accounts or financials because it's too confronting or stressful for us. That's understandable. At the same time, we need to know some things. We need to know how much are we bringing in each month. We need to know what our financial obligations are each month. And we need to know how the two compare. Once you've come to terms with your financial picture, you should start doing research on the job you'll be transitioning into. What can you realistically expect to earn? Are the salaries in your new career ever going to be on par with those of your former career? Maybe they'll be

higher. You want to have a clear picture so you know what you're stepping into. Places to do research online are Payscale, Glassdoor, InherCite, Fairy Godboss, but also talking to people can be extremely valuable. So if you're networking with people who are in the career that you want to transition into or at an organization where you want to work, you can ask them what you could expect to make as someone in your situation with the background that you have, with the experience that you have transitioning into this career. And that's a little more tactful than asking straight out, what do you make? Even though that's what you're really trying to find out. In the course of your research, you might discover something less than ideal.

I was a little concerned because I knew I was like, I'm going to have to take a pay cut. That's Tara Duvivier, another successful career transitioner. She worked for many years in IT for a bank before switching to urban planning. Turns out urban planning is a hot career these days. Anyways, she was faced with a problem common to a lot of people switching careers. In your new job, you'll have less experience. And oftentimes that means you'll be making less money than you were initially. And that can be super nerve wracking. I was just worried about what this would look like. Like how bad, you know, how much less money

am I going to make? Like, will I be able to make decent money? Do I have to move back home? Do I have to get a roommate? Do I have to, what am I going to, I just didn't know. Cynthia says there are a few ways to soften that pay cut blow. One is plan ahead. So get a raise in your current job first, if you can, so that you are earning more money that you can then put away and save up a cushion to supplement your lower income later on. Also consider whether you'll be needing other supplemental streams of income, like a side hustle, for after you switch to the lower paying career. And don't assume that just because you're starting a new career that you'll be making entry-level pay. You can make the case that you're bringing a wealth of experience and transferable skills. If a pay cut is inevitable, Cynthia suggests using

it as fuel to really plan out the next few years. Spend some time thinking about a timeline to ask for promotions and salary increases. Figure out what skills you need to gain to advance in your career as aggressively as possible. It's been 15 years since Tara left her job at the bank, and she's earning more now than she did when she started out in the nonprofit urban planning world. It took a while to build her salary back up, but... I just never regret it. I used to leave the bank and it's great. Like, you know, okay, I did my job, but I had nothing to show for it. And with every job that I've had, I have something, I've walked away with something. I can walk down a street and say, I built that, or I helped build

that. Money aside, there's something else you'll need to rely on during this transition. It's the homies. Takeaway number five, tap into support networks. This could mean family, friends, coworkers, classmates. Look to people whose advice you trust to support you through this process. But Cynthia also says keep an open mind and be ready to hear their true feelings. If everybody in your family and your friends in your close circle who previously have been supportive of you and your life in other ways is like, TK, are you sure? I would actually recommend taking a beat and analyzing, is there something that they're onto that I'm not seeing here? Because maybe there is. If that's the consistent response you're getting, then you sort of have to

first ask, is there credence to what they're saying? And if there isn't, because there might not be, then I would say find your support somewhere else. Maybe talk to a therapist or spring for a session or two with a career strategist like Cynthia. Maybe you can find a group of people in your profession that can offer support and advice. Your network is your focus group. Don't underestimate the effect they'll play when you're in the middle of this transition, in your chrysalis, hustling day in and day out, planning your metamorphosis into your next act. It's a tough process and you need your people by your side. Okay, you heard all our tips. You're plotting your next big move. The hard part is coming up, actually doing it. That hesitation you might be feeling

might be tangled up in emotions about leaving your current job and the path that you were on. Like definitely feel your feelings, you know? And if you need to be sad about it and mourn the past however long of your life, like do that so you can process it and then be able to move forward.

But I don't believe that, you know, having sort of this backward focused, regretful thinking is very productive. Here's our last takeaway. Number six, you got to keep it moving. Otherwise known as the shoulda, woulda, coulda principle. Because time only moves in one way. The sooner you start building a foundation so that you can successfully change careers, the sooner you're in it. You know, we often think about the risks of change, but we don't think so much about the risks of not changing. And the risk of not changing is that time is passing you by. In other words, YOLO, you only live once. And if you need more inspiration to kick you into gear, have a listen to some of the people I spoke with who changed careers.

I feel liberated. I do believe in a calling and I absolutely do believe I found mine. Like sometimes I still sit back and question like, Stephanie, are you doing what you want to do? Are you taking steps towards your goal? And every day so far, every time I ask myself that question, the answer is yes.

When I finally made the successful transition to producing and hosting, I had a birthday retirement party. Say it formally. Say it. What? I retired. I quit.

Yeah! I felt no regrets or second thoughts, and I was ready to take on this industry full time and dedicate myself to the work that I wanted to do, rather than the work that I had to do. Celebrate your wins at every step. Lastly, I want to tell you about a Japanese concept called ikigai. Roughly translated, it means reason for being. It's basically four overlapping circles. So like a Venn diagram times two.

One of the circles is all the stuff you love doing. Another circle contains all the stuff you're good at doing. The third circle, things you get paid to do. And the last one is what the world needs. Ikigai, your reason for being is the thing smack dab in the center of all four circles. Now, you don't need your job or your career to fulfill all of those circles. But I do think you will be happier if your work life and your life life cover most of those four things. So if you're doing a job that is something that the world needs, that you're good at, and you can get paid for, you're missing the thing that you love. So just find another way in your life to do the thing that you love, like in your free way in your life to do the thing that you love,

like in your free time, your community work, like in your home life. At the end of the day, try and find a career that ticks as many of those circles as possible. But remember, you're not defined by your career. You are a full person in and outside of work hours. And things change. We've all learned that this year.

Your current job may not tick all four circles, but your next one might. Make sure you're finding fulfillment and happiness everywhere you look. So, let's recap. Takeaway number one. If you don't know where to start, identify what it is you really need to change. Takeaway number two. Consider less traditional ways to get the experience you need to make a big career change. On to takeaway number three, bring all your past experience and knowledge with you. Life experience can boost your confidence and be used as a negotiation tool. Takeaway number four, face the numbers. Learn about the salary structure of your new career and take steps in your current situation to be ready for the change. Let's go to takeaway number five,

tap into your support networks. Your friends are your focus group, but don't forget the importance of getting out there and being around people in your new field. Finally, number six, you got to keep it moving. Otherwise known as the shoulda, woulda, coulda principle. Process your feels because the sooner you start, the sooner you get to your finish line. For more NPR Life Kit, check out our other episodes. We have one about how to say no and curb your people-pleasing tendencies. I need that one, y'all. You can find that at npr.org slash life kit. And if you love Life Kit and you want more, subscribe toicemail at 202-216-9823 or email us a voice memo at

lifekit at npr.org. This episode was produced by Sylvie Douglas. Megan Cain is the managing producer. Beth Donovan is the senior editor. Special thanks to Cynthia Pong, Nikki McClendon, Tara Duvivier, Steph Adele, Kia Charisma, and Sam Miller. Our digital editors are Beck Harlan and Claire Lombardo, and our editorial assistant is Claire Marie Schneider. I'm TK Dutess. Thanks for listening. With the unemployment rate at record highs right now, millions of Americans are without We'll be right back.