Life Kit - How to use music to express your authentic self

Episode Date: October 15, 2022

For R&B darling Omar Apollo, music has been a powerful way to showcase his Mexican American culture and queer identity. In an episode with NPR's Alt.Latino, he explains why that takes courage and confidence — and a little soul-searching too.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This is NPR's Life Kit. I'm Mariel Seguera. Today on the show, we have an episode by our friends at Alt Latino. It's a conversation between the show's new co-host, Ana Maria Sayre, and the R&B artist Omar Apollo. As Sayre describes, Apollo's new record is a mix of hip-hop, indie music, and even some ranchera-esque belting. Apollo talks about growing up queer in a traditional Catholic Latinx household and about how he and his family navigate that now.

He also talks about setting boundaries, spirituality, and following his intuition. So basically all our favorite topics on Life Kit. Oh, and he's super charming. Stay tuned. From NPR Music, this is Alt Latino. I'm Felix Contreras. And I'm Ana Maria Sayer. Let the chisme begin. Felix, did you know that Omar Apollo has his own hot sauce brand?

I had no idea, honestly. I think most people don't. In addition to being a major global star on the rise, he is also, in fact, in the business of bringing tasty condiments to his fans. It's actually his mom's recipe. So he's in the business of sharing his Mexican-American culture through his music and then through food. Interesting. Interesting. You always have a beautiful way of putting it, Felix. He's been doing that actually a lot lately in his music. His latest album, Ivory, includes a solid mix of hip-hop, indie sad boy singing, and even some ranchera-esque belting mixed in.

A lot of real cool stuff on that record. And as we've done with Alt Latino in the past, we're catching Omar Apollo at a critical point in his development as an artist, like almost at the very beginning. The conversation you had with him showed how he's revealing more of who he is and continually showcasing his culture through his music. Since his SoundCloud days, which were, believe it or not, just a few years ago, he's been leaning into, I don't know, what feels natural and authentic to who he really is. And in just a few years, he's hanging out with some of the biggest names in the music

business. That's pretty amazing. Which I think we know all too well, Felix, can be both a good thing and a bad thing. No kidding. He actually had a moment when he was first signed to a major label where he let too many voices influence the type of music that he was making. He told me in our interview that he didn't really feel like the music was his,

and so he actually scrapped the entire album just a few days before he was supposed to tour with it. That takes a lot of courage and a lot of self-confidence, man. I grilled him on where that courage came from, how he got from his basement in Indiana to becoming an icon for queer Latinx kids around the nation. Spoiler, it did take a little help from Pharrell. The music of this young man from the Midwest is a reflection of Mexican culture among folks his age. It's less a sound of accordions and mariachis, but more of soul, hip-hop, and other contemporary sounds. It's quite a different sound from what my generation expects, but honestly, I'm all about it. So let's dig into that interview. Oh, hi. Welcome to the show. This is all lucky.

Thank you for having me, darling. Oh my God. Thank you. I'm going to tell everyone that. I'm like, Omar called me darling. So you were talking about your art and kind of the way that you express yourself and how you landed on music as that being the form you said you started with dance yeah can we hear a little bit about that well yeah I started dancing when I was like 11 I was like gig in like third grade and like how'd you get into it my mom she like my sister was already doing it and then I saw my sister doing it I was like oh I want to do it too so they like dressed me up like a mariachi and then I would just do these little dances they'd pick me up from school

and I'd go like do perform at some college or something yeah I did like one dance the respa at the end I was such a little kid. Everyone else was like, you know, 17 or 16. But I had to be like 10 or 9. And I was really small as a kid. I didn't get taller until I was like 16 or something. Wow. Okay. So you were the showstopper. You were the closer. Yeah, I was the closer. I was the anchor. They brought you in for the good vibes at the end. Right. I still know the dance. It's really simple. So you're dancing.

That's like your thing that you start out with. Right. How did you end up landing where you are now? Well well i started dancing yeah and then i kept dancing till i was like 16 or 17 like for real like i was really i was going to like i was saving up my money to go to like choreography classes i didn't go to many i went to like three or four that were like 10 bucks or like 20 bucks i'd save up i'd take the train and i'd go and then music was always a thing when i was 12 i would play guitar in church but my guitars got stolen when i was like 14 oh my god yeah they got stolen from one from church one from my house damn yeah we got robbed a lot yeah it's like

after your guitars they would take everything like they it's like my mom's wedding rings and like wow yeah so like i was like oh i don't have enough money so that's when i got a job at mcdonald's and like saved up and got another one and i was like 17 18 okay and that's when i started making music when i was 17 18 so i was like oh i like dancing but music feels right right now so i started doing that and then it kind of just like snowballed yeah i kind of knew what was like sounded good to me because i i knew when my music wasn't good i remember it being not good i was like oh i'm going to get good do you ever listen back to like early stuff it's cringy i played it for some friends and they're like this isn't even bad bro i'm like nah this is terrible i was like so close to the microphone like I was saying like this all breathy like you were like going for the like I feel like we all have

that moment when you're first trying you know music or whatever it is and you're like I gotta go for the thing that like everyone you know it's so sick to do this or that or whatever yeah but then you find out what like works for you and then you'd like exaggerate that and I think that's what led to it what did you feel worked for you like when did you find that sweet spot I remember I was working at a Jimmy John's when I was like 18 or 19 or something like that I had never liked my music before that I had been making it for like a year and then I was just like oh like I don't like it yet I remember one time I just made a voicemail my phone, and it was so sick. Like, it was still up.

You can find it. It's called Yellow Jasper on SoundCloud. I bet you call mine. I bet it's all right. But we're the same someplace. I get flooded with memories. Ooh. Ooh. It was all freestyle, and then I just like, as soon as I got home from work, I went and recorded it just exactly how I had the voice memo,

just like a little cleaner and like added harmonies. And then I was just like, oh, from then on, voice memo just like a little cleaner and like added harmonies and then I was just like oh from then on it was just like okay it just turned on a switch and then I was able to just do shit yeah why would you keep going at it if you literally didn't like what you were making I don't know honestly I don't know I just had this feeling it was just like oh I know I could do it like I know I can I just loved it so much I didn't care and I remember at that age you couldn't tell me anything like people were saying people in my family were like you suck at singing you're a terrible singer i wasn't good yet like i wasn't good yeah i had to learn it bothered me but not like in a way that it's like oh i'm not gonna do it anymore yeah like the same thing when i was

dancing too people would like make fun of me and then I'd just be like, well, whatever. I'm different. I'm like, because around there, no one makes music, no one dances, no one directs, no one, like, you know, you go to L.A. and New York. Oh, my dad's a director. My, you know, my mom's in music. Or, like, you know, it's, like, it's not far-fetched. But out there, it's, like, you work at the steel mill, and then, like, do meth, and then and then like that's it i remember there was a point in time like you know around 2020 where like i was accepting other people's opinions too much and it was like really really messing with how my music sounded yeah and i literally just had to cut everybody off and like rent a house and like Idlewild and just make music by myself no opinions

because it affects somebody says something like oh I'm thinking about it like and so yeah now I'm gonna make it differently so I found that if I'm just like alone just boundary setting I feel like you should do that in all parts of your life yeah Philosophers, thieves that have no family When you write, are you thinking about who's going to be listening when you're writing? I think that my songwriting has definitely developed over the years because before, when I made my first songs, they kind of were all about unrequited love because I hadn't really been in a relationship yet.

I was so young. And now I feel like I'm writing more of these complex feelings these complex feelings of, like, you know, relationships, life, money, all that stuff. Yeah. When you say you're working on boundaries, like, obviously with who you're working with, making music and whatever, that's one part of it. But do you feel like you're also working on boundaries within your work, like, in what you decide to share with the world? I mean, it's so vulnerable, right? Oh, for sure. For sure, yeah. I've've definitely like taken things off and just because of that like yeah because you weren't ready to like put that out i'm just like oh that was too much like that's too there like

i'm good you don't need that um it's because sometimes you're just letting go like you just need to say shit yeah it depends what's your vibe if that's how you're feeling and like you say it in like a clever way then it's dope yeah i don't know i think my my my next music is gonna be like that i'm gonna just really like be honest why what changed i mean even the fact that i'm like thinking right now about what to say like i don't want it to feel like that like i want to feel like expression you know like i want it to feel like you ever like leave dinner and you're like damn did i say too much i just want to be able to just say shit and just like say deal with it like and it's like that's just how it is that's how i am like what you gonna do like yeah like putting more of yourself into it and then like also once you do that being able to

not like it's like literally what you said like oh did i say too much like and then you're playing it back right and you're like should i've said this should i've said that so it's like being vulnerable in the music to like say it and then also to not like yeah because then it's like no surprises. Yeah. A lot of things can feel performative, especially when you're talking. It's, like, people be themselves all the time. But once you put a camera or, like, you know, a microphone, it's, like, obviously you're thinking a little differently. Like, okay, well, this is going to be, you know, digitally immortalized forever.

So, like, maybe I should watch what I say. Well, especially for you like people i don't know i can go out there and say whatever whatever and then no one's gonna bring it back to me but you i mean people are like paying attention to what you're saying no it's super important and i think that like you need to realize that but i also think that you shouldn't not be yourself because of it. Because I really don't want to be here alone. Too many people I don't see no more. Too many feelings I don't feel no more.

Because I really don't want to be here alone. Too many people I don't need no more. So many doubts that I start keeping score. Just like that performative nature of things is really like, that's what it felt like when I first started doing it, like interviews. I'd be like, oh, like, you know, I gotta be like, I gotta use big words, I gotta da-da, or whatever. Maybe not big words, because I don't know big words, but, you know, when I was younger, I thought like that,

because I'd love seeing interviews, and I'd be like, yeah, they sound so smart was younger I thought like that because I love seeing interviews and I'd be like yo they sound so smart but I'm like if I'm not like if this is how I talk this is how I talk like you know

I don't know do you feel like I do know but like you know you do know but yeah no I know I know you know

but I know I know that you know that I know I know that you know that I know you being as big as you are right like you have skyrocketed in terms of your music and you're so talented and it's well

deserved. But I think more than just the music being what it is, a lot of people obviously look to you as someone who, right? A lot of us traditionally have not seen. You're like, you are representing so many different people who, who see themselves in you. And speaking about being performative, do you ever feel a pressure to perform in a certain way or be a certain way or say certain things because so many people are looking up to you as like a representation of themselves? Yeah, of course. Fully. I think it's like really important, especially like queer Latino kids come up to me and they'll tell me like they have the same amount of siblings with me their parents are from the same place

they're also queer and like i'm like oh this is bigger than like than what i thought you know or like when kids are like i started playing guitar because of you like i'm like yo that's nuts because i don't even think i go home i watch watch P-Valley, you know. You were on the record just saying that. Just saying. And it's definitely something super important. And I always try to say something at the shows and, like, try to make everyone feel seen because, you know, that was definitely something

that was lacked when I was a kid and, like, when I'd go to shows. I never really felt represented. I never really felt like felt like you know so I think it is important our conversation with Omar Apollo will continue right after this short break being an artist and being a musician it's almost like its own form of like going through therapy right right it's like I feel like you do grow in your ability to like express yourself and like put everything out there. And so it's like now you have this career where you very publicly put yourself out there. Like has that impacted the relationship with your parents?

My parents didn't know that I made music for like a couple years. Like they did, but the first time they came to a show was when it was like 1200 people and they were just so confused wow they were like oh someone else's this is someone else's show right like you're opening i was like no i was like i'm not opening and uh they're like what and then like i remember my mom she was just said she was crying she heard everyone screaming my name she was just so confused she was like when she heard everyone screaming my name. She was just so confused. She was like, what? Are you screaming for Omar? Are you screaming for Omar? She was so confused. That's so cute.

And, I mean, after that, obviously, they're just super proud and super into it. But if I, you know, went through what they went through and, like, crossed the border and, like, had kids out here and didn't really know the language, I wouldn't be scared if my kid told me he wants to be a singer too. Like, I'm not impressed. Yeah. It would have been nice for them to be supportive in other ways and probably would have helped my self-esteem at the time.

I really believe that people can change and people can grow. And, yeah, I'm not holding anything against them. Yeah. We have a great relationship now, and, like, it's cool. Honestly, like, I don't know how to say this without sounding arrogant, but when you pay the bills, they can't say that much to you. They really can't. You won't believe what happened to me

My parents are very, you know, traditional Mexican parents. I don't curse around them. I grew up, like, super Catholic, too. So I'm just, like, over here with it. But no, they understand. And I get, like, you know, that religion brings them comfort. I get that. And I think that, like, you know,

I had to just look for comfort in other ways. My dad has always been really open-minded. He's, like, well, was only into religion because of my mom. But my mom is, like, she's really starting to, like, open up and open her mind a little bit and be like, oh, wow, like, there are different religions. Right? What a fascinating concept. She's known that. She's known that she's known that obviously but i'm just saying like she's really like trying which is important to me it's just like yeah as long as you're trying like i get it you were you were raised your whole life

thinking one thing one way and then like god gives you this crazy kid who wants to be a singer and is queer. I get it. He probably gave it to you for a reason. He's like, this is going to help you grow. He's like, okay, we reached the ceiling here. You doing what you do and being who you are has to have opened up their world in so many ways. Yeah, it really has. I know I asked you earlier if you were speaking to anyone when you write,

but is your family a thought or your parents a thought when you were working on your album? I just made this song recently. No, before that, I never really talked to all my parents in songs, but I just wrote a song. I called my mom and told her about it. She was like, oh. And I'm obsessed with it.

And I was talking about my parents it's cool to have a song that's like not about love well i guess love like but like not about romantic love it's more about like self-love and the things that you deal with and the real thoughts that you have they are just real like it's like that's just what's going on because that's what's important to me is family. I mean, if you're a good Mexican kid, then you'll know familia is the most important of all things, as my grandma texts me every single day. Don't forget us.

Right, right. Are you more of like a you-love-performing person, or you would rather be in the studio? Because you tour low-key a lot yeah i do enjoy touring i feel like there's gonna be a point where i really enjoy it because i'm really really gonna dial in the music and once i do that then like i've never made music thinking about a live show really yeah it's always just been like vibes yeah and then i was like then I was like, no, like, I'm going to go in and make music, like, specifically for, like, a festival or specifically for it to just, like, so I could be super excited for it, you know? Yeah.

Like, just, like, that kind of intention. It's like, oh, I'm ready for the road because it's, like, this is the music that I would want to make if I was going on the road. How did you, because I know, like, obviously, obviously you were like making everything by yourself in your bedroom and then you go on and you bring in Pharrell and you bring in all these insane minds and people. How did you navigate relying on just yourself and just your sound and just what felt right to you? Like, how did you bring in other voices?

The second time around, obviously. Yeah, yeah. It was funny because the song didn't come out. is another song we were just like it's on a keyboard like like very it was just you could tell it was all feeling and then he trusts himself that's what's crazy he's just like boom he's like you like it i was like yeah he's like all right i'll be back in 30 minutes and then and he like went and there's another session in the house so he went like pushes t was there he came back 30 So he went, like Pusha T was there. He came back 30 minutes later and I was like, when he was gone, I was like, all right, I got to just go crazy.

That's so high pressure. I made the whole song in 30 minutes, the whole thing and recorded it and everything. He came back upstairs. He's like, can I listen to it? I was like, yeah. This is Tamagotchi. 12 hours through Milwaukee. Bitch, I'm making bread. Sound like Pavarotti. It's my fast and lean. You can't get it off me.

Bitch, this is not my scene. Vamos by Miami. Feel on my waistline. I'm in LA for hours away. Just hit me on FaceTime. Feeling so good. Feeling so good. Singing the bass line.

Your body is on me. You're touching up on me. We come at the same time. So I played it, and he starts freaking out and i'm just like oh wow he trusts what i just did yeah naturally like this is just me being me in its purest form it's like this is what i would do you know it's not like oh what would he like or you know so then that just gave me reassurance of like trusting yourself your intuition like your your your gut i'm just like well i'll just keep going i was like we can make five more like just send him more beats so he got super hyped up and he like brought up everybody from downstairs he brought push the tf he's like listen to this shit it was really cool it was like you know when when someone that you look up to just, like, fucks with you. Like, yeah. Even that right there, I'm like, well, if I walked in the studio with Pharrell, I would be like, I'm going to make whatever I think is going to make Pharrell happy.

Like, in that moment, what inside of you made you be like, no, I'm just going to be true to myself. I think it was just like, that's all I know how to do it is like be myself so like i honestly didn't think he was gonna like it because i was just having fun i was literally just freestyling like and i was just like well i'm not gonna sit here and like you know write something that's like because he was on some club shit he told me he's like i want some club shit so i'm like oh so like i'm just be talking about like you know the club whatever the club is yeah so I was just like no it was just like more like you know arrogant energy like pedantic like very like bravado like kind of thing so having released your album like you have a few months now right since it's been out in the world is there anything

about it that feels different or feels like the way it was received as i don't know how do you feel about it oh man i loved it i mean it was i went on tour like while the album came out and people like knew the lyrics so i was like oh i was really happy about that yeah you kind of could tell the favors right away i'm still like working it's kind of the same I probably get more highs at the airport now definitely I was like oh they're saying hi to me at the airport now it's different I mean you're kind of hard to miss I'm too big like that's what it is like my tallest Mexican to ever live literally six five there's got to be another one we have to take a picture literally all I did meet one is I did meet a guy who's like my height if not taller a mexican guy he he was in uh he owns this crazy taco shop he's kind of like my age yeah it's so weird i can't think oh cuantos tacos it's in like texas cuantos

tacos we're in texas austin i think okay you have to text it to me because i want to go it's really good that sounds sick yeah it was like amazing tacos. It wasn't like average. Okay, Texas or Southern California tacos? I mean, the best tacos I've had in California were in Compton in some guy's backyard. Okay. Those like, they got shut down. Oh, they got shut down because there was another backyard place.

Yeah, it was so good. And then my mom's tacos are crazy, but the tacos in Texas are different. Yeah. They really know what they're doing. Not that Los Angeles doesn't know what they're doing. You better be careful. No, they do know what they're doing. It's on the record.

I know it's on the record. I'll say it. Do you stand by it? Yeah, my mom. Do you want to say that again? I'll say it again. I mean, I'm just saying, like, L., LA has great tacos, but my mom has crazy tacos. I believe that.

Like, it's insane. I believe that. Like, my mom, like... Nothing beats, I mean... When she came from Mexico, they were able to get a loan from the bank, and they opened up a restaurant. What? And they called it El Super Taco, and they, like, had clientele. They didn't make any money, but, like, because they didn't really, you know, it was their first time opening a business.

Yeah. And they got shut down. But the tacos were popping. Wow. Yeah. Then, like, the new owners that they sold it to, well, my mom used that money to pay all the debt. And, like, they didn't make anything from selling it. But they kept the name.

And my mom gave them the recipe. She gave them the recipe? And they would sell it. Because it was popping. Yeah. It was, like, it was a great was great is it still there uh no now it's like uh a shark's i was gonna say you gotta go back and reclaim super taco right i need to i mean maybe that's the best tacos in the area right but my mom's the only one that really knows how to make it and she don't need to be

doing that you mean you're not gonna force your mom to oh i mean i did start like a hot sauce company and she like helped me with the sauce no way you have a hot sauce yeah it's called dish a hot we're doing a relaunch soon we're gonna send you guys some oh my god please but yeah that was the hot sauce she used at the at the restaurant wow okay she shut it down because of me because i was born she couldn't take it she would like raising kids in the restaurant she was like i can't do this but then you're now selling the hot sauce so it came full circle i guess yeah wow i will be looking out for that hot sauce. I'm expecting to get some in the mail. Get some. Well, this has been absolutely wonderful.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's really been nice to listen to this interview of an artist that's pretty much fully developed, and yet there's still so much more we can expect from him at the same time. It's almost a contradiction, but in Omar's case, it's true. And that's exactly what we're talking about, right, Felix? Omar is all about sitting in those contradictions. He has so many plans for how he wants to continue to transform as an artist, but as a person during our interview, especially as such a young person, he struck me as being really solid. He felt very grounded to me.

Family's super complicated, and I really felt him when he talked about it. But it feels like he's done a lot of work on that and come to terms with what a lot of us kids with Mexican Catholic parents tend to struggle with. You know, those things are not limited to your generation. You know, that's intergenerational. These things are struggling with the things that our parents stand for. And I think that Omar Apollo really handles all that stuff very, very well in his music. And in particular, and in this tiny desk performance, he brought all of who he is. He was stripped down. He was singing ranchetas. He was singing his soulful R&B. He was laying himself out there.

It's a very powerful performance. Oh, my God. I 100% agree. I mean, I think Omar, all of the Omars are on full display in that performance. His voice on Petrified, fun fact, actually, for everyone to know, he sang that one twice, and it gave me literal chills both times i'd highly recommend checking it out that's it for this week you have been listening to alt latino which is a production of npr music our editor is hazel sills the alt latino intern is vida dadu

and our new production assistant is fee o'reilly and our audio producer is Ron Scalzo. I'm Ana Maria Sayer. And I'm Felix Contreras. Thank you, as always, for listening. We'll see you next week. Ha ha ha! I'll see you next time.