Life Kit - Ibram Kendi Reflects On Anti-Racism — And Wants You To Do It Too

Episode Date: October 24, 2020

Author and renowned scholar Ibram Kendi's new book asks readers to examine their own relationship with race. NPR's Eric Deggans spoke with him about it.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

Ibram X. Kendi says he can't remember the first time he saw the infamous video of George Floyd dying while gasping for breath beneath a white policeman's knee. I don't even remember sort of where I was because I feel like I was almost pulled into this tornado, you know, right at that time. Kendi, already a respected authority on systemic racism in America, thanks to his books How to Be an Antiracist and Stamped from the Beginning, was almost immediately pulled into a whirlwind of commentary and public contemplation. While some people have been able to mourn or process the personal and collective traumas in private, Kendi said he didn't believe he had the option to feel burnout. He's a big basketball fan. You know, you can't really get tired during the NBA finals. And for those of us who are doing racial justice work, you know, these

last five months, it's almost like we've been in the NBA finals, you know, the whole time. As a response, Kendi has created a new companion book, Be Anti-Racist, a journal for awareness, reflection, and action. We talked about it for this episode of Life Kit. Filled with 150 questions, prompts, and quotes from how to be an anti-racist, with room for readers to write down answers and thoughts, the book encourages others to take their own journey towards anti-racism. Stick around to the end for an opportunity to meditate on some of the book's ideas, prompted by questions from the text asked by Dr. Kendi himself. I'm Eric Deggans, NPR's TV critic, and I cover a lot of stories about the intersection of race, media, and society, so I was eager to speak with Kendi about why he created this new book,

how he's weathered the deluge of attention, and what he's learned from standing at the center of such a massive civil rights reckoning. And so now you have this book, Be Anti-Racist. Your earlier book was How to Be Anti-Racist. What's the difference between the two, and why did you feel the need to create this sort of companion piece to a book that people were were able to really relate to how to be an anti-racist was how sort of deeply vulnerable I was in terms of really reflecting on the them on. And people were telling me that, you know what, I was, I want to continue to reflect on myself. So I want to continue to change myself so I can continue to be a force of change in society. And so that sort of led us to think, well, maybe we should write a tool so people can do just that, so people can literally systematically take their own journey, as I took in how to be an anti-racist. Yeah. And it sounds like you're saying that part of the key is sustained effort, like the kind of effort you might put into working out every day or maintaining a diet.

You can put that effort towards, or you have to put that effort towards constantly making anti-racist choices every day. Oh, without question. And I'm happy you used the term anti-racist choices because that's really what this is about. And so when you make a racist choice, you're being racist. When you choose in a particular moment to be anti-racist and to challenge that racist ideal policy. You're being anti-racist. People, like with anything else, they have to have a clear sense of what a racist and an anti-racist choice is. And so that doesn know, really, the book allows people to really discern so that they can essentially check themselves when they've made a racist choice and and over time make more and more anti-racist choices.

You know, what struck me about the original book versus the new book is that in the original book, you know, you're confessing all these things about yourself, right? You're admitting your homophobia, you're talking about your anti-Black biases, your own sexism. I mean, you put a lot on the table. And I wonder if, were you worried at all about how this would affect your reputation or how people would react to this? And did any of those fears come to pass? So to be frank, it took me more than a year to write the first five chapters of How to Be an Antiracist because it was so difficult to bear some of the most shameful moments of my life. I also knew that one of the central ideas of the text was this idea that we're all either being anti-racist or racist. And I also knew as somebody who was raised to believe that only white people can be racist, that there was going, and then there was also a tremendous amount of anti-Blackness within communities of color, that that anti-Blackness was going to cause people to deny and continue to feed them to sort of strike down at the book because of their own denial,

because they don't want to sort of look in the mirror of their own anti-Blackness. And so I was also extremely concerned about that because in a way I knew the book, everybody was going to come at the book as has, you know, whether you're the left or the right. But then I was diagnosed with stage four, you know, colon cancer. Um, and, and then, you know, I was told that, well, you know, it was a disease a disease that kills 88% of people in five years. And so, shoot, you know, following the evidence, you know, the logic and even the stories and sharing that and bearing that. Because once I realized that an anti-racist is an individual who is challenging the system of racism and thereby an individual who is not challenging the system of racism is being racist.

You know, once that became clear, and then I was able to understand the role of the individual in that larger system, right, and to distinguish, and then basically wanting to write a book that said to the individual, what are you doing? Are you challenging the system of racism fundamentally? And then for me to reflect on my life and for the better part of my life, I was thinking Black people was the problem as opposed to that system of racism. And for me to admit that, as an individual, I was not challenging this larger system. I was just like, I'm just going to write that. And it's going to be, you know, hopefully every individual will then look in the mirror, no matter the color of their skin, and ask themselves the same question. Have I been challenging the system of racism or white supremacy or have I been upholding it? That's the very question we all need to be

asking ourselves. Yeah. Are you part of the solution or part of the problem? Exactly. So it sounds like this journal book is a series of questions that are sort of designed to take people on that journey. So how did you figure out what to ask people to spark the kind of journey that you already took? And how can they find the courage to face the things about themselves that you had to find the courage to face? Well, first, one of the ways in which I was able to find the courage was to even define what courage is. You know, and, you know, courage is not the absence of fear, but the strength to do what's right in the face of it. But also, I mean, to your question as well, I was really trying to unpack, because this workbook is also going to be used by people who didn't read How to Be an Anti-Racist.

And so I wanted to really unpack in a systematic way, what are the questions that I ask myself, really? What are the underlying major questions that I ask myself, really? What are the underlying major questions that I ask myself, particularly in succession? Literally, we try to make it into a journey. And so that's ultimately the central questions that I ask myself, you know, are the questions that really guide this journal. And even the central statements that I wrote in the book that really even caused me to think about things differently, you know, or even some of the quotes that are in the book. Do you have a sense from all the talking that you've done with people, what might be the toughest questions for people in this book? What's going to be the most difficult sections for them to get through? I think it's going to be difficult for people.

So I think there are some questions around identity in that, like, how do you relate to your own identity? Right. So, for instance, for me, it was very, very, very difficult for me to come to grips with my own anti-Blackness. And so I can imagine somebody who's Asian, it being very, very difficult for them to come to grips with their own, you know, anti-Asian-ness. I think it was easier for me to come to grips with the ways in which I thought there was something wrong with Native people or Latinx people than it was for me to be like, whoa, I think there's something wrong with me, with people like me. So I think that's probably going to be the hardest. Yep, that's very true.

So when people go through these questions that are in the journal and they start to explore these issues, do you have a sense of what kind of transformation they go through? Is there a general process for people when they start to be honest with themselves about these issues in answering these questions that you've laid out for them? What is that process like? How are people changed? Do you know? The book really begins with you seeing the outer layer of racism as a system, but even sort of racist ideas. And then you then being able to sort of see the outer layer of your own racist ideas. And then as the book goes on, you start getting deeper and deeper and sort of layer on top of layer. And thereby you get a sort of a deeper sense of your own potential racist or even anti-racist ideas. And all the while you're reflecting on yourself. but the deeper you sort of get, the more clarity you then gain

when you come up for air and see our society. It's almost like, you know, I used to wear glasses before I got some LASIK surgery. And like, I would never like wipe my lens, you know, every now and then my, my wife would come around and be like, why are your lens so dirty? And she would take, you know, a towel, right. And clean it. And, you know, she cleans it. I'm like, oh my God, things are so clear. I didn't even know that it was that cloudy. And so, you know, I think as people see themselves more clearer, they see society more clearly. And ideally, they also see what needs to be changed more clearly. And ideally, they have a very clear sense of how to make those changes. Yeah. I did want to end on a hopeful note. And one of the things you say in

the journal is that to be anti-racist is to be hopeful. And I just wonder, again, especially in light of everything that you've done over the last few months, where do you find your hope these days on these subjects? And what do you see that makes you feel hopeful that we'll land in a good place when it comes to encouraging anti-racism and discouraging racism? For me, simply, I can't engage in something when I think it's impossible for that thing to actually happen. So that, I think, philosophically gives me hope, and it also gives me hope when I think about that, you know, the 1850s, even the 1770s, just like the 1960s, were some of the most divisive and violent

and polarizing decades, you know, of American history. But what came out of it, what came out of particularly the 1850s and 1950s and even the decades afterwards, what came out of it was the ending of slavery, chattel slavery, the ending of a form of Jim Crow. And so that's what gives me, at least that's what I'm trying to believe is going to come out of the ravages of 2020. And now Ibram X. Kendi shares a few questions for you to meditate and reflect on from his recently released workbook, Be Anti-Racist, a journal for awareness, reflection, and action. Listen to his questions and spend some time thinking on answers.

Maybe even write them down for a sample of the introspection on racism and anti-racism he suggests throughout his new book. Describe the most racist moment of your life. How can you contribute to an anti-racist future in your home, among your friends, within your family, within your community? Being diagnosed with racism is not unlike being diagnosed with cancer. Both can be shocking and devastating. Why is pain essential to healing America of racism? Why is pain essential to healing ourselves of racism? Are we ready for the healing pain? How does racism breed cowardice?

To be anti-racist is to be hopeful. We must all find hope. How do you think you can find hope? For more NPR Life Kit, check out our other episodes. I've hosted one with even more details on how to be anti-racist and another on picking the right TV streaming service. You can find those at NPR.org slash Life Kit. And if you love Life Kit and want more, subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org slash LifeKit Newsletter. This episode was produced by Audrey Nguyen, Megan Cain is the managing producer,

and Beth Donovan is our senior editor. I'm Eric Deggans. Thanks for listening.