Life Kit - Lessons In The Hard Work Of Healing

Episode Date: November 30, 2020

America is divided. How can we move forward together? Michel Martin, host of NPR's Weekend All Things Considered, speaks with leaders in mediation and conflict resolution to hear their insights about navigating conflict and finding understanding.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This is NPR's Life Kit. I'm Michelle Martin. By now, saying that America is divided is almost a cliché, but it's true. And it's something that seems to touch almost everybody in some way. According to the Pew Research Center, for example, these divisions even affect who people say they're willing to date or befriend. And the research says such divisions have only widened during the Trump administration, especially on deeply personal issues like race, immigration, and aid to those in need. And even now, with the presidential election over,

some people are still trying to deny that Joe Biden is the legitimate winner. So how does the country move forward? To get some perspective, I talked with people who've done the hard work of healing. These conversations you'll hear in this episode are part of a larger series from All Things Considered, which I host on Saturday and Sunday. Now, healing doesn't happen quickly, and we're not going to give you any easy answers, but these conversations shed light on the importance of addressing trauma and working together as a community in order to move forward. First, let's focus on truth and reconciliation commissions. You might be familiar with the idea from other countries, like in post-apartheid South Africa and Northern Ireland,

but similar commissions have been set up in the United States, and we thought people who participated might have some insights to share. In a few minutes, we're going to hear from Rev. Nelson Johnson and Mark Sills, who are with the Greensboro Truth and Reconciliation Commission. That was established some decades after the Greensboro Massacre of 1979. That's when members of the Ku Klux Klan attacked unarmed people at a civil rights march with the apparent complicity of local law enforcement and killed five people. No one was ever held accountable for their deaths. But we're going to hear first from Denise Altvater,

who is co-founder of the Maine Wabanaki State Child Welfare Truth and Reconciliation Commission. That commission was convened to address the widespread practice of taking Native American children from their homes and placing them in foster care or adopting them out to white families. That was Denise's experience, and it was deeply traumatic for her. She recalls being tortured and abused when she was separated from her mother for years. The state came with station wagons and took myself and my five sisters out of our home. They put all our belongings in garbage bags. My mother was away

shopping. She wasn't home. And we did not see her again for four years. So when they drove us away from the reservation, they drove me away from the only thing I'd known my whole life. And for four years, the foster parents tortured us, and the state left us there. That sounds terrible. That's just horrifying to even hear about. I really have no words. There really are no words to react to what you experience and you and so many others. And I did want to ask, as an adult, how you and others arrive at the idea of a Truth and Reconciliation Commission? How did that come about? And how did it work? Back in 99, the federal government did an audit in Maine and found that Maine had the highest rate of removal of Native children than any other state. So they were threatened with losing federal funding if they didn't fix the problem.

So the child welfare people knew my history. So they were looking for individuals who had been taken to come and tell their stories and make a video because they knew that Maine knew the law, but they refused to follow it. So what was needed was a way for them to feel and believe and understand why the law was so important. So I was asked to tell my story, and I said, sure, why not? And I walked in a room, and there's all these umbrellas and cameras. So I sat down and I told the only story I knew. I had never talked about it my entire life. So they interviewed several of us Wabanakis. And within the next month, we trained over 500 DHHS workers on ICWA.

And so every time we did the training, I would have to watch that video over and over and over and listen to my words. And it was very much overload. What do you think is the most important aspect of this? The most important was having the space where my voice and others' voices could be heard and believed in a place where we knew that something was going to happen. So it was so life-changing to tell your story in that type of an atmosphere. And it transformed me into somebody who started having courage that I never had before. And it just transformed my life. So healing and having a voice were the two most important aspects to me. No reparations at all were necessary as far as I was concerned, and I'm still concerned.

Thank you so much for sharing that. Can you stand by for the rest of this? Are you okay? I'm okay, yeah. Okay, thanks. So Reverend Johnson, I'm going to ask you now and recognizing that this is also painful for you, but what happened on November 3rd, 1979? Well, let me say first that my heart aches all over again, Denise.

I heard you share the story in Greensboro. So I just want to let you know that we join you by the heart and thank you for your courage. Thank you, Reverend. Let me say, first of all, we were organizers, active organizers in the textile industry and in communities throughout North Carolina. We chose to have a march through the historical black community. Well, nine carloads of Klan and Nazis drove into the march with a cache of weapons and they fired on the group. Five people were killed. I was wounded, and I knew then that this couldn't happen without the police collusion. We fought it from the very, very beginning.

Two jurors did not convict the Klan or found them not guilty of anything. So at our 20th anniversary of this tragedy, we mulled over what to do. We resolved to build a truth process over 40 years of persistent work. What did participating in this commission accomplish for you that those failed trials did not? What do you think it achieved, and how do you think that you and the community benefited from it? Well, it laid a foundation of information that was available to the community. The population of our city had been so thoroughly inundated with the view that we were responsible for our own deaths. I think it opened the door for what eventually happened,

and that is that the city used the document, although some 40 years later, to help them come to a conclusion that the police deliberately did not show, that the city government created an atmosphere that mitigated against a decent trial. And we're very proud of the truth process. And I'll end with this. We're in conversation now on people who are working on truth processes and trying to put together a national truth process. So we feel that there may be some help for the sickness of our nation, which is divided as never before since the Civil War, perhaps. We need some mechanism to help bring healing and sanity to our culture. I want to talk a bit more about that in a minute, but I want to bring Reverend Sills into this.

Reverend Sills, you weren't directly involved in the events in Greensboro that day. So how did you become involved in the truth and reconciliation process? And what made you want to participate? And what was your role? Well, the false assumption there is that I wanted to participate. The truth of the matter is I didn't, not initially. I grew up in a middle-class family. My parents came from working-class backgrounds. I did know how the issue of racism could touch even a white, privileged family when my father preached against segregation in a southern mill town, and the Klan demonstrated in my own front yard, burning a cross one evening. So I had been touched by that, but only very,

very lightly. Why did you not want to participate, and what finally convinced you to do so? Well, I knew it was going to be difficult, and I just didn't think I had the time or energy to devote to this. And yet, I can tell you, looking back on it, it was two of the most challenging years of my life. I want to ask a question. I'm going to start with you, Reverend Sills, because I assume you identify as white. Yes.

There are those who I think would be listening to our conversation who would believe that these commissions are basically beat up on White People Day. And they would say to themselves, you know, I don't want to be a part of that because I don't want to feel those feelings and I didn't do anything wrong. I wasn't there. Well, I certainly have heard that sentiment expressed many, many, many times. There is a fact that truth commissions

exemplify that cannot be denied, and that is it's difficult to heal trauma without truth-telling. You have to uncover and acknowledge what has been done wrong before you can fully move forward. And so that's what this commission accomplished. We would wish it would have borne more fruit earlier, but it is still, this many years later, continuing to bear fruit in bringing this community together. This has been such a beautiful and rich conversation. And as I said, I apologize, we're only just scratching the surface here. I could spend hours talking to all of you. But I do want to loop back to where we started, that we are having this conversation at a time of increasing division between Americans. I mean, everything from race and religion,

the economy, even the response to COVID, whether people should wear masks or not. Look, in the age of disinformation, the concept of truth itself seems to be made to be partisan. So I just wanted to ask each of you, what lessons could we apply from the truth and reconciliation processes that all of you participated into the times that we're living in now? If you have some takeaways that people who haven't been through what you've been through could apply to the moment that we're living in now, if you have some takeaways that people who haven't been through what you've been through could take could apply to the moment that we're in. And maybe Denise, can I start with you? Sure. No matter what issue that you try to deal with, we learn so much more from this process than just that one single issue and that one single question. So for me, it has changed my life. It has saved my life.

It has changed my relationship with my children, with my community, with my family. And I would do it again in a heartbeat. Reverend Nelson, what about you? I think the most profound thing that people can learn is that truth matters deep truth there is a truth

that Native Americans land was stolen and they were nearly annihilated as a people it is true that women were devalued and still devalued these are truths that are deep and enduring. And let's, first of all, acknowledge this depth of truth.

Reverend Sills, final thought from you. What do you think perhaps people could draw from the experience of the commission who haven't participated in the way that you have? Is there something? You know, we all grew up hearing phrases like, a house divided cannot stand. And our house is very divided right now in the United States of America. There are so many divisions that threaten to bring us down as a society. One of those divisions that seems to be pervasive,

it is found at every level, and that is racism. To me, racism is like an addiction. And an addicted person may not at first see that they have a problem. It may make them feel strong or wise or intelligent or powerful. And anyone who's ever worked with addicted people knows you cannot help a person resolve an addiction, overcome an addiction, until they're ready to acknowledge that they have a problem. Truth commissions are a way that society can acknowledge the things that are killing us and destroying us and fraying the edges of our culture. And once those things have been identified and acknowledged, then progress,

real progress, substantive progress can be made. So I think the models that are represented in Maine and in Greensboro are worthy for other communities to look at as ways to go forward. That was the Reverend Mark Sills. He was a member of the Greensboro Truth and Reconciliation Commission, a commission that was co-founded by the Reverend Nelson Johnson, who was also with us. And we also spoke with Denise Altvater. She's the co-founder of the Maine Wabanaki State Child Welfare Truth and Reconciliation Commission.

I cannot thank you all enough for sharing these very profound and important thoughts with us today. And also, I want to thank you again for being willing to relive these very painful moments. And I just appreciate you all so much. Thank you. Thank you, Michelle. Thank you very much. Now let's talk about a more one-on-one approach to healing with people who engage in street outreach, often called violence interrupters. Although these projects may be known by different names in different cities, the goal is the same, to break the cycles of violence and retaliation

that typically end with people being hurt or killed. The Metropolitan Peace Academy in Chicago is a training program that professionalizes this type of outreach work. And this summer, they graduated their fifth cohort of street outreach workers. So we've invited two people involved in this training so they could hopefully offer us some insights about their philosophies and methods for healing these kinds of deep divides. Troy Harden helped to develop the curriculum for the Metropolitan Peace Academy. He's also a professor of sociology at Texas A&M University. Professor Harden, welcome. Thank you for joining us. Absolutely. Thank you.

And Tyree Head graduated from the academy this summer. Tyree Head, welcome to you as well. Thank you. How are you doing? Good. And congratulations to you. Thank you. Thank you. So the Peace Academy program, as I understand it, is no joke. I mean, it's 18 weeks. It's 144 hours of training. And it's training for something very difficult, frankly, to persuade people to make a choice other than a choice that they might be kind of primed to make based on their own experiences or based on what they see kind of around them. So I just wanted to ask, Tyree, as briefly as you can, how did you get into this? How did you get into this work?

I grew up basically like every other Chicago kid. My father was a peace officer. My mother was a school teacher. So I had a lot of free time. So long story short, I grew up rough like many kids that we are now trying to help. So when I came home from being incarcerated, I seen that there was a need. Even though I felt that I didn't owe anything to the streets or to the penitentiary system and that I could just leave and start my life anew, I felt that I owe it to my community to come back and teach them and try and change the norm and let them know it know the flip side to the coin or to the life that they live in now. What's one of the most important lessons you learned during your training at the Peace Academy? Tell me a little bit about something that really clicked for you. Well, the very first thing, because it's so much, man, the Peace Academy is

like a very well-baked cake. So the very first thing that I learned is a lot of the things that I was going through, or I was trying to help people with, it was names for them. Just from that aspect alone, putting a name on some of the things that I see or that I'm feeling or that I either know or don't know how to deal with, that meant the world because now I can put everything in its proper perspective. I can categorize everything and I can attack it with more oomph than not knowing like what I'm dealing with and being confused. So as I understand it now, you're at the Institute for Nonviolent Chicago. Yes, ma'am.

And so how do you do your thing now? Like, what do you do? Well, first, like if it's an incident, a violent incident, a shooting or something occurs in the community, the very first thing we're trying to do is gather information. So we gather information and whatever side that's the victim or the aggressor, we try to create doubt. While we're dealing with the immediate problem at hand, we want to create doubt. So another problem won't occur while we're dealing with this one, meaning retaliation. And then we go help the victim and see what it is that they need. That's the first initial steps. How do you get people to talk to you? Because I could imagine that if you've been hurt, you're angry and you're hurt. Chances are, if you hurt somebody, you have what you think is a legitimate reason. So how do you get people to listen to you to begin with? The Institute teaches that

hurt people hurt people. And there's a lot of hurt people walking out here in society for whatever reason. So just recognizing that and understanding that, because now it's more psychological. So now that I understand that, I know how to approach them. So me working with these individuals on a day-to-day basis, I build a rapport and a bond. So that helps. And nothing is a facade. So my heart is open. So the way I come to them, they understand, they relate because they know I walk the same path they walk.

So I'm now trying to divert their path so it won't be identical to mine. So that pays dividends. So let me turn to Professor Hardin. Troy Hardin, you were the lead curriculum developer for the Metropolitan Peace Academy. Can I ask you the same thing? How did you go about developing a curriculum for street outreach work? Was there sort of a template already out there that you could build on, or did you have to start from scratch? Could you just help us get a sense of how you even thought about this? Well, I think the most important thing was just always to remember that people have been

dealing with how to deal with harm in many of our communities for a very long time. About 20 years ago, an organization called Cure Violence really crystallized what's called a public health approach to addressing violence. And so they became one of the major trendsetters, not just in our city, but across the globe. So many of the methods and techniques have been out there, but have been crystallized from a street perspective. So we took some of the best of what's been out here and really pulled that together along with some of the issues that were unique to the Chicago area.

But can I ask you the same question I asked Tyree Head, which is how do you get started when people are already hyped? Well, I think Tyree laid it out. There's something called a credible messenger, which he is, right? And Tyree works to establish relationships before the incidents actually happen. And many of the relationships go back a very long time. People who have known him in both his former and current life and have seen the change that he is. One of our core philosophies is be the change that you want to see. So this is very interesting because part of what I hear you saying is that some of the people who are most effective at doing this outreach are people who come from their own. Like, you're not necessarily going to be interested in what somebody distant from you has to say, but somebody who you identify with sharing a message is most important. I do want to wheel

around, though, and ask how you think the work that the two of you are doing might translate into other situations. Because as I said, part of the reason we're having this conversation now is because of deep divides between people in the US. I mean, people are divided politically, they're divided over race. And as we have seen, some of these divides are escalating into violence. And it seems like people are kind of dug into their positions, and they really don't want to hear about what anybody else has to say, at least it seems that way. So now I just wanted to wheel around and ask, you know, what advice you have about how your work might translate into other situations? Tyree, do you mind starting? Like, how do you like open the door? Well, first of all, love kills all that.

But in my opinion, the divides and the biases and the stereotypes always been there, right? And you have the most powerful man in the world throwing flames on stuff that was already there. Instead of healing, he wants it ignited. So our job translates because recently I had to talk to a whole room full of officers and I let them know that like they are a major piece in this because they have to change the narrative and the norm of how the community looks at them like a credible messenger. Professor Harden, what about you? What would you say? I think Tyree shared it earlier. One of the problems that happens out here is a lot of misinformation. You know, recently we started calling it fake news, but fake news has been going around for a long time in the hood and it starts a whole lot of problems. And so one of the first things that

is a tenant across street outreach is gathering information, gathering factual information, and making sure that people are clear about what's really been said, what's really happened, what real issues are in order to really deal with it in a factual way. And I think that's a huge part of what we have to do is be able to promote and support real information out there and that people who folks trust have to be able to share it, not spread misinformation in a way that ends up hurting people, which is what we see on the national sphere. If you could put on your violence interrupter hat, and if you would imagine, for example, the United States as being like two people on the street who've had a bitter fight that could get worse. Is there something you

could give us to sort of start us off? Like, what would you say to start like breaking the cycle of kind of violence and mistrust and kind of mutual animosity? I think part of it is acknowledging the harm that's happened and really being able to see that there are different interests that people might have, but there are also mutual interests that people have. And then, you know, going back to what Tyree shared, is making sure that people understand those issues and that there's a lot at stake. So I would argue that we're at a turning point in our society where we can begin to recognize the harm that's

been created historically and really begin the process of healing that through realizing that every human being not only has a right to exist, but has certain rights on this earth. Troy Harden is a professor of sociology and the director of the Race and Ethnic Studies Institute at Texas A&M University. He was the lead curriculum developer for the Metropolitan Peace Academy in Chicago, which trains street outreach workers, also known as violence interrupters. And Tyree Head is a recent graduate of the Metropolitan Peace Academy. He's now working as an interrupter at the Institute for Nonviolence Chicago. Thank you both so much for talking with us and offering us these inspiring words. Thank you. Thank you so much. For more NPR Life Kit, check out our other episodes.

I've hosted ones about talking to white kids about racism and what to do if you're facing eviction. You can find those at npr.org slash life kit. And if you love LifeKit and want more, subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org slash LifeKit Newsletter. Special thanks to William Troop, Tinbeat Hermias, and Jenea Williams, who worked on this series that originally aired on All Things Considered. Megan Cain is LifeKit's managing producer, and Beth Donovan is the senior editor. I'm Michelle Martin. Thank you for listening. Since the 1980s, hip-hop and America's prisons have grown side by side. And we're going to investigate this connection to see how it lifts us up and holds us down. Hip-hop is talking about what we live, trying to live the American dream, failing at the American dream. I'm Sidney

Madden. I'm Rodney Carmichael. Listen now to the Louder Than A Riot podcast from NPR Music, where we trace the collision of rhyme and punishment in America.