Life Kit - 'Me And White Supremacy' Helps You Do The Work Of Dismantling Racism

Episode Date: July 9, 2020

There's been a lot of talk about the work white people need to do to understand their role in racism. Layla Saad's book, Me and White Supremacy, helps readers do just that. Saad explains why it's important to dig into the uncomfortable work, why being an ally isn't enough, and ideas to combat white supremacy in your everyday life.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

This is NPR's Life Kit, and I'm Eric Deggans. There's been a lot of talk about the work white people need to do these days. The work of understanding their place in racism. The work of reflecting on how they fit in the mechanisms of white supremacy. And the work of understanding and accepting how they're complicit. Well, take it from anti-racism educator Leila Saad, answering those questions is not easy. This work is not a walk in the park. You know, many people consciously want to do the work,

but they want to do it in a way where they can still stay safe. This work has to undo you. It has to break your heart. Leila is the author of Me and White Supremacy, a book which started as a 28-day Instagram challenge and burst onto the New York Times bestseller list in the wake of America's current exploration of interest in systemic racism. Each chapter breaks down a concept like white silence or tone policing. Then Layla asks the reader to write journal entries on each topic. The prompts are direct and unflinching, and that's the point. To help readers explore the specific and personal ways

they have been complicit in white supremacy. Sometimes this exploration won't feel very good. Those feelings of discomfort, shame, guilt, fear, all of those things are part of the process. If you're feeling those things, then you are in the work. And you have to face those things because sure, nobody, nobody who's alive today created all of this, right? But everybody who has that privilege benefits from it. And in one way or another helps to maintain and sustain it. And no one can do it for you. I can't sit in the room with you, right? Make sure that you go through every single day. And that when you cry, I'm going to comfort you. I can't sit in the room with you, right? Make sure that you go through every single day and that when you cry, I'm going to comfort you. And when you feel bad that I'm going

to reassure you, it's okay. It's not okay. But it will change you in important ways, especially if you're thinking, I understand how white supremacy operates in places like politics or law enforcement, but what does that have to do with me? The one place where you can take responsibility for your actions is within yourself. It's the one person you have complete control over. But as you begin to switch on the light and see how this plays out within you, you begin to change your behaviors and you begin to influence the people around you. I'm NPR's TV critic, but I've also spent a lot of time covering the intersection of race, media, and society,

writing a book about the subject and putting together a TEDx talk on talking about race. As a black journalist who spent a lot of time dissecting systemic racism over the years, I couldn't wait to sit down with Layla

and ask about the journey she's asking white people to undertake. On this episode of Life Kit, we talk about how to get started on work that's long overdue. The word that struck me as I was reading through this process was discipline. Like you are asking for discipline from people. Yeah, so day one is white privilege. What is white privilege and why do you need to look at it? When you hear the words white supremacy, you're thinking KKK, neo-Nazis, right? Skinheads, like that's what

you're thinking. The most obvious form of it. Right. And so when you hear white privilege, you may think, yes, white people shouldn't be privileged, but that isn't as bad as white supremacy. And what I want people to make the connection to is actually white privilege is a part of white supremacy and it upholds white supremacy. This isn't about generalizing or stereotyping white people as being somehow deficient or defunct or something wrong with them. But this is about saying, you were born into a system that automatically gave you these powers and these privileges. You're not even aware of them. This is about learning how to identify how you're seen in the world and how you see yourself, so that you can essentially betray it, right? Essentially say, I'm not going to play this game anymore.

I'm not going to walk on this earth as if I am superior and treat people as if they are inferior to me. I will defy that. And so I think we have to separate white skin, right? Versus whiteness, which is a social construct that is about power. Yeah, I've always said the greatest power that white supremacy has, particularly in America, is that white racial culture is treated like it's invisible. It's not talked about, it's not defined in the same way that black culture is.

Can you describe what the work is and how you came up with a 28-day program for this? Yes. Despite the title and what people initially think when they see it, it's not just for the quote-unquote bad people, right? They're like consciously, right? Actually, it's not even written for those. It's written for people who- Let's say the bad people aren't even going to bother, right? Actually, it's not even written for those. It's written for people who say the bad people aren't even gonna bother. Exactly. And I think people see the title, and they're like, wait, what? This is so confusing. Because I'm not racist. I don't even see color. I have black friends. I voted for Obama. Can you hear that noise I'm making? I'm gagging. How many times I've heard that? So those, those people who really think I'm an ally, you know, this has nothing to do with me in, um, in the book, I quote Martin

Luther King jr. And he talks about in his letter from a Birmingham jail, he talks about, you know, one of the greatest stumbling blocks to progress is actually the white moderate who, you know, doesn't see themselves as the problem, basically, but through their silence, through their inaction, through saying, wait, they actually uphold white supremacy in these different ways. And so I wanted to write this book as a process for people to walk themselves through, how does white supremacy show up in my life? This white supremacy is playing out in your life, in your everyday interactions with the people in your life. But as you begin to sort of

open that switch on the light and see how this plays out within you, you begin to change your behaviors and you begin to influence the people around you. Systems are made by people. Systems are maintained by people, but systems can also be changed by people. And so the system isn't out there, right? So with the example of a school, that's a system. A school is a system. So if we're seeing at the school that subtle and not so subtle racism is taking place, and I'm a parent at the school, and I'm opening my eyes to my racism, and I'm seeing the ways that it's being perpetuated at school, then I begin to say, okay, well, what is my responsibility then? To hold the school accountable to creating an environment that all children feel like they matter, all staff members

feel like they matter. That staff members feel like they matter. That's a system where you can create change. So getting back to the lessons, why is journaling so important, such an important part of this process? Without the journaling, it becomes an exercise in just intellectual stimulation. You stay at the level of mental thought without that heart engagement. And there's something about putting pen to paper, writing down what comes up that unlocks, you know, past memories that unlocks thoughts that you that weren't at that conscious level. I really want people to understand that what we're talking about now isn't consciously chosen.

You're not consciously in the world going, I'm superior to people of other races. And so I'm going to take advantage of these privileges and live in this way. It's deeper rooted than that. And so that process of journaling brings into consciousness these ways of being and thinking and believing that you're not consciously thinking about, but they're there. It's that feeling of seeing a black person, you know, walking down the street and crossing to the other side and not even thinking about it, but just that instinct kicking in of I'm not really safe here. That makes sense. And what's the benefits and drawbacks doing this on your own versus

doing it as a group? So I think this is not necessarily like one preferred way or another. It's about know that I'm going to return to this work again and again, that there's benefits to doing it by myself and to doing it with a group. I think one of the, and I talk about this in the book, one of the things that people have to be wary of in the group is this idea that, oh, we're in this group, and we do this work. So we are one of the good ones. And it becomes this sort of white people congratulating one another for being such good allies. That can be dangerous as well. And I

try and let people know that upfront, like, don't get into that. Don't be looking for your ally cookies. Ally cookies. Exactly. I think the benefits of doing it in a group is that you get to see and understand that it's not just you, that it's not just you who is digging up these unconscious racist thoughts and beliefs that are very ugly. You didn't know that were sitting inside of you, but that you get to hear from other people as well. And when they say things, it may spark things for you. So, for example, you may read one of the days and think, well, I don't do that. I don't think I white center. And then you're in this group, this circle with other white people, they tell you the ways that they do it.

And you go, oh, I do that. I didn't realize that was white centering too. What we're trying to do is not just create individuals who are these kind of lone people who are doing the work, but really a culture of doing the work, but really a culture of doing the work, a culture of anti-racism. And that's why I think it's important to connect with other people doing the work. But I also think that shouldn't be a deterrent, like if you can't find community. What do you think is the biggest obstacle or the toughest challenge for white people, especially when they decide they want to take on this challenge? I would say, and this is sort of my own belief, but also what I've

seen people, where people get stumped, or people say, oh, I just got called out in a big way. And it's white exceptionalism. Can you define that? So white exceptionalism is this idea that I as a white person, I'm actually one of the good ones. I'm actually, there's something about me that's different that I'm not really conditioned into white supremacy. I think white exceptionalism is actually what drives a lot of people to buy my book in the first place. Because I think that they have this belief that I'm one of the good ones. This is what an ally does. An ally buys a book like this. This actually, me buying this book proves that I am exceptional because other people wouldn't buy it. Right?

And so there's this- And of course, having it on my coffee table or in my bookshelf, in the back, you can see it when I do my Zoom calls. Exactly. And I can quote from it. And I think, you know, with white exceptionalism, it's very dangerous. It's very, very dangerous because it separates the quote unquote good from the bad, right? And there is no good or there's no bad. This isn't about your inherent goodness as a person. What we are talking about is what are the ways that you are not even aware of that you are harming people? Because you're not aware. And so that's what we're bringing into the light. And so you have to separate. And I talk about this in this section, I talk about you're going to have to redefine good. What does it mean to be good to you? Is it that everyone else thinks you're not racist, right? And so many

people, we even see this with brands right now and businesses, right? Putting forth their statements, their Black Lives Matter statements, because they want everyone to know we're not racist. They want everyone to know we're doing the work. And it's like a statement isn't proof that you're one of the good ones. A statement is that you have now caught on to the fact that you need to say something, otherwise you're going to be perceived as agreeing with co-signing, you know, that Black Lives don't matter. But it's not the work. The work is digging in, looking at how have Black Lives not mattered to us? How does that play out in how we treat black people who are our staff, our customers, our clients?

What policies do we have in place, whether written policies or unofficial policies that show us black lives don't matter here? Yeah, I always say a statement or even that sort of performative allyship, that's writing a check. And that check can still bounce. That's right. If you don't live up to the promise that you've made.

At Life Kit, we love to have, you know, lists. Three things to do, you know what I mean? And so I know it's a 28-day regimen and you want want people to work through this book, and they really should because it's amazing. But if you had to break it down to the three most important things that people could do to work on themselves and help unwind white supremacy, what would you tell them? I know, I know. I saved the tough question for the last. We have a sort of tweetable top three. Exactly.

Okay. I think number one is that this work begins and ends with yourself as an individual. That the one place where you have complete control is within yourself. And so when you're looking at where do I start? What do I do? It's you. You need to start with you first. If you start doing things outside of yourself, you think that you're here to save black and brown people. You're not here to save us. You're here to see the ways in which you are already causing us harm and stop doing that. Second then is this ripple effect of the people you are in relationship with, your parents, your kids, cousins, friends, bosses, whoever.

You have the ability to influence those people. So take what you've been learning about yourself and have those conversations with the people with white privilege in your life, as opposed to just preaching at them and saying, that's racist. And did you know that's white supremacy? And, you know, you benefit from what do you create and sustain and how can you change those things right it's um it's we can't wait for the lawmakers and the policymakers and the politicians they have a vested interest in things staying the same but you as as as this collective right this grassroots movement can affect change by saying this isn't actually what we want. We're going to hold you accountable to a different world. Many thanks to Leila Saad, the author of Me and White Supremacy. For more NPR Life Kit, check out our other episodes. We have one on how to address

microaggressions and another on how to support a friend going through a tough time. You can find those at npr.org slash life kit. And if you love Life Kit and want more, subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org slash life kit newsletter. Also, we want to hear your tips. Leave us a voicemail at 202-216-9823 or email us at lifekit at npr.org. This episode was produced by Claire Snyder. Megan Cain is the managing producer and Beth Donovan is our senior editor. I'm Eric Deggans. Thanks for listening. Whenever you face a choice, it helps to think like an economist. And this week on Planet Money Summer School, we'll start off our course in economics with a workout for your brain. How to decide what something truly costs.

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