Life Kit - Sci-Fi And Fantasy Recommendations For Your Summer Reading

Episode Date: August 26, 2021

If you want to dip a toe in the starry seas of fantasy and science fiction, but you just don't know where to start, Pop Culture Happy Hour is teaming up with Life Kit for a handy beginner's guide. What's the difference between sci-fi and fantasy? Is there one at all? We'll cover all that and throw in some reading recommendations to get you going.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

If reading fiction is an exercise in empathy, as it lets you climb inside someone else's head and see the world through their eyes, then reading science fiction and fantasy ups the ante. You still see through someone else's eyes, but the world you're seeing can be almost anything. A distant planet, an alternate timeline, a land of magic and mystery, even maybe our own familiar world just tweaked a bit. Whether you're a long-time science fiction and fantasy reader or just getting your feet wet, or maybe you've stepped away from these genres for a while only to become intrigued by how much they seem to be changing

in recent years, we've got you covered with some basic backgrounds, some things to look for, and some solid recommendations from experts. I'm Glenn Weldon, I'm a co-host of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, and we're teaming up with LifeKit to offer you a beginner's guide to the genres of science fiction and fantasy fiction as they exist today. I'm Glenn Weldon, and on this episode of NPR's Pop Culture Happy Hour, we're teaming up with

our friends over at NPR's LifeKit to offer you a beginner's guide to the genres of science fiction and fantasy fiction as they exist today. Joining me in this endeavor is a murderer's row of experts who've thought and written a lot about these genres and how they're evolving. First up is Amal El-Motar, a poet, writer, and critic for NPR, as well as a judge of this summer's NPR Reader's Poll on science fiction and fantasy. Welcome, Amal. Thank you so much for having me. It's great to have you. Next is Tochi Anyabuchi, author of the 2020 novel Riot Baby, and also a judge who's helping us out on this summer's Reader's Poll. Hey, Tochi. A pleasure and an honor to be here. Oh, you flatter us. And rounding out this incredible

panel is Petra Mayer, an editor at NPR Books. She focuses on fiction, especially genre fiction, and perhaps by now the astute listener will have picked up on a recurring theme. She oversees and does the heavy lifting on the NPR Summer Reader's Poll, which this year is all about the science fiction and fantasy of the past 10 years. Hey, Petra. Hey, Glenn. Good to have you. All right, I don't want to kick off this discussion with anything as dry and as academic

as trying to come up with comprehensive definitions. What is science fiction? What is fantasy? Because they're genres, right? And genres are famously squishy things, tough to pin down on the specimen board, especially in recent years. But I do want to address something here at the top, which is yes, okay, fine. We are combining science fiction and fantasy in this discussion, which in our defense is something that happens a lot. And that also happens to rankle a lot of people who don't like getting these two genres lumped together.

So maybe instead we start by asking, what is it about these two genres that causes people to slam them together in discussions like this one? What do they have in common? Because maybe by approaching it like that, we can kind of back into some of the elements that recur, some signature things that listeners can look for. Recognizable staples, genre conventions, as we say, of science fiction and fantasy in the first place. Amal, let me start with you. What does science fiction mean to you versus fantasy? What do you look for in them? And follow-up question, what do you make of the catch-all term speculative fiction?

Do you find that useful? Ooh, okay. So there's a lot to unpack here. And I want to start by being a huge jerk. I'm so sorry. To me, science fiction and fantasy are mostly, at this point to me, almost aesthetic differences for kind of two broad aesthetic tracks for one thing in particular that I'm really interested in, the idea that actually all fiction is fantasy and that everything else is a subgenre, including domestic realism, a subgenre of fantasy. And as soon as you start reading any literature with any sense of history or lineage for it, you realize that fiction has been non-fantastic for a very, very short period of time. So for me personally, I tend to think instead that I like things that proceed from a sense of wonder and inquiry and that kind of explore the human condition with a toolkit that is interested in going beyond what exists around us in our everyday.

I like things that invite you to say what if a lot. The term speculative fiction, I think, occupies almost exactly the same space as the term graphic novel versus comics. And, you know, I think that term is sometimes useful, especially useful in terms of trying to pick away at people's assumptions about something before they actually get into it more. So if people have an assumption about comics being, you know, every article that starts, zam, pow, bam, wap, or whatever,

in order to talk about what comics are, you know, if that's kind, zam, pow, bam, wap, or whatever, in order to talk about what comics are. You know, if that's kind of what people have in their heads, then maybe talking about, well, it's just like a novel, but it's got graphics, I don't know, is like a way to just sort of step past people's assumptions. And I think that speculative fiction is that sort of umbrella.

Amal, the only reason you're a jerk is that you took everything I was going to say. Because when I was thinking about science fiction and fantasy and speculative fiction, the thing that came to my mind was the question, what if? And all of these things are concerned with that question and they just approach it from different ways. You also, of course, mentioned the difference

between comics and graphic novels. And when I'm being snotty about it, which I frequently am, I think speculative fiction is a term that you use for people that don't, you code switch a little bit, right? Like literary code switching, you're talking to people that don't want to admit they like sci-fi and fantasy. So you say, speculative fiction, you like Station Eleven, right? You know? It's exactly that. And I really think that there's a long and fascinating history to why we talk about these things the way we do. And that

history is really, really entwined with market realities and stuff like and these are all things that I think are super fascinating, but often work against trying to just help people find books that they will enjoy. Those distinctions, I think, are most interesting to me when they generate conversation instead of like shutting conversation down or saying that you're wrong to name this thing what you're naming it and stuff like that. So that's where my like everything is fantasy kind of comes from just to sort of be provocative in a slightly jerky way, but hopefully in a way that allows for the recuperation of more books instead of excluding things and shutting things out.

Well, speaking of excluding things and shutting things out, I mean, you mention a kind of openness to these approaches, to approaching this kind of writing. And certainly when I was a kid back in the late Jurassic, I wanted Tolkien and nothing but Tolkien, right? That's what I figured I liked. So I read so many Tolkien knockoffs, some which were merely derivative, others which were legally actionable. I'm confident it was. It was like, wow. And I got tired of seeing the same thing, the same setting of sort of feudal Europe. But Petra, you are in a unique position to chart how much everything is changing. So 10 years ago, NPR did a summer

reader's poll on science fiction and fantasy for the first time. We're doing it again this year. You are doing all the heavy lifting for it. How do you think things have changed? I mean, the voting's closed now. So what are you seeing in the results? Well, a couple of things have changed just structurally about the poll. If you look at the 2011 list, it is ranked. And we find that that results in a somewhat unbalanced list. So one of the biggest differences between then and now, you know, they're right here in this recording with us. We have Amal and Tochi, who are two of our amazing judges this year. Instead of doing a straight up like popularity contest, over the

past few years, it's evolved into a more curated list. That list goes to a panel of judges who are usually authors or critics in the field. And the not-so-secret secret of this poll is that they are people that I want to hang out with. This is a way I can do it and call it work. Yay! Aha! Corruption! Yes. And so then we break it down and we build it back up again. I invite the judges to add their own additions so that in the end we end up with a really nice, balanced, curated list that combines what the readers really love with some stuff that they might not have thought about that's amazing that they can discover through this list. So it's much more of a discovery tool now than it used to be. It used to be just kind of a popularity contest. The other big difference, I think, is just embodied in the poll itself. I can tell you right now, it's a lot different than what we were putting out in 2011,

if you look at that list. But I think there's something like 14 women. There are no writers of color. Octavia Butler's not on that list. What? I think Amal and Tochi can also speak to this, but over the past 10 years of sci-fi, we have seen this incredible, just supernova of new voices, new perspectives, new experiences, new worlds, writers of color, more women, genderqueer perspective. It's just been this, I don't want to mix my metaphors. It's just been this blossoming. It's amazing. And that's really what I wanted to reflect and celebrate this year with the Summer Poll. Now, Amal and Tochi, Tochi, you're a judge. Are

you seeing some of the same thing? Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's really interesting. Being on the panel of judges affords me a view of, I mean, if not 30,000 feet in the air, then at least like 15,000 feet in the air, where I can see in a sort of macro scale what a lot of this change, and I think a lot of it is demographic change that has all these incredible implications for the genre stylistically and with regards to thematic concerns. But I'm also, you know, like Amal, we're in it. We're in the middle of it. We are the happening, you know? And that I think is a very fascinating sort of dual perspective. I mean, there are more writers of color.

There are more writers from queer backgrounds. There's a lot more demographic diversity. And what I've found with that is that people from these different backgrounds in many instances carry different, not just thematic preoccupations, but also stylistic influences. And so I think that ends up manifesting itself as stylistic innovation

in the genre. You're seeing a lot more stuff that just looks different and not just in terms of the skin color of the characters on the page, but in terms of the very architecture of these books. And I don't know, it just feels, it feels really cool. It feels new. I think it speaks to what you were talking about when, you know, you were in the midst of Tolkien and wanted to read more Tolkien, but you were coming up against a lot of derivatives of Tolkien. And they're almost to the extent that there was this sort of generation loss when you take a photo, you photocopy that photo, and then you photocopy a photocopy of that photo. And the image quality just deteriorates. Here, it's just 4K HD all the time. You know, I completely agree with everything Tochi is saying, especially to do with the

different influences that people are bringing to their work right now and i say this as someone who actually like glenn you know i deeply appreciate tolkien but i also deeply appreciate stuff that somehow didn't get that photocopy quality like the stuff that people copied about tolkien was the stuff that i actually wasn't super interested in like copied about Tolkien was the stuff that I actually wasn't super interested in, like copying the forms of the things, but not actually the spirit of the thing. Like the kind of melancholy sadness and richness of Tolkien is something that, you know, you'll find in Ursula Le Guin. You won't necessarily find it in a lot of the big blocky books that I was reading in the 90s, you know? So it's interesting to me, like, what actually persists?

Fantastic. I mean, we can't be all things to all people, but we can help them dip a toe in. So each of our experts is going to recommend a book that makes for a good entry point into the world of world building. Let's start with Amal. Sure. There is this tremendous book called Unfragile Waves by Ila Liu, which is, first of all, staggering because unbelievably, it's her first novel. But it's a story of a family fleeing Afghanistan, a mother, father, sister and brother. And they are trying to make their way to Australia. And so it's about that journey it is very grounded in the real world but the daughter in this family becomes haunted by a girl who drowned during the voyage and that presence that haunts her becomes woven into her experience of being in the offshore immigrant processing facility which is a lot of horrible distorting words to actually mean just horrific human rights abuses and stuff on Nauru, which has since been shut. But it is so

much about being dislocated over and over and uses magic and haunting and sadness and poetry as a way to explore those things. So it looks at those things without flinching, but also without feeling exploitative. And it ultimately is just so much about the ways in which stories can help us through difficult times, but also about how they can be insufficient to the task and you need something else. So it's just a tremendous balancing act. It took like 10 years to write. I desperately want people to read it because I feel sort of like if everyone read it, then the world might be a slightly kinder place. And I just so badly want everyone in the world to read it.

So yeah, it's On Fragile Waves by Ila Liu. Thank you very much. Tochi, what's your pick? My pick is This Is How You L you lose the time war okay i mean yes by max gladstone and our very own mal el motar i'm gonna sound like stefan from the from that snl sketch it's like it's got magic it's got space it's got love letters it's got everything all you have to do is walk up to the door and the password is you know and the wonderful thing about it too bringing it back to genre is that

it traverses genre so easily so easily in many ways it's almost like it can read like a survey of subgenres like there's a dying earth element to it there's a fantastical element to it there's a historical fantasy element to it and all of it in one book i think in terms of sheer inventiveness this book is almost peerless because i didn't know you could do the things that max and amal did in this book i just didn't know those could do the things that Max and Amal did in this book. I just didn't know those were in the realm of prose possibility. And like, it's one of those books too,

that breaks so many of the dogmas of how to write or how to be a writer. It's an epistolary book. You're not supposed to write epistolary. Like it kind of time travel, but like time travel in the sense that like, these aren't necessarily people the way that we conceive of people. Like one of them is a hive mind. And like it's so like time is a little bit more of a elastic concept. flies against so many of the dogmas of how to write that come from more draconian corners of,

whether it's literary spaces or non-literary spaces, read This Is How You Lose the Time War. All right, so that's a mixed review. That's a C, C plus, okay. Three and a half out of five stars, you know. So that's This Is How You Lose the Time War by Amal El-Motor and Max Gladstone. You're not the first person to recommend that book to me.

I've heard the author can be a little contrarian. But yeah, that's good. Thank you. Petra, is your pick going to make someone on this call blush as much as that last pick? How can I follow all of that? Just quickly, like one of the common other misconceptions about sci-fi and fantasy is that it's full of series

and they're all 18 books long. And oh my God, why do I even want to start this? Because it isn't even finished and God knows when it will be. So I was thinking about really good standalone books. And I came to one of my favorite comfort reads of all time, which is The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison. Oh, it's so good. It's so good. It's so good. So this is a lovely mix of kind of high fantasy because there's elves and goblins and there's steampunk elements too, because this is a quasi technological world. There's a mix of technology and magic and religion. There the elven emperor and he's been exiled off to the middle of nowhere because he's half goblin and he never expects to be anything other than just an exile in the middle of nowhere and then suddenly a mysterious accident kills his whole

family and he is the emperor and he has to come to the capital and he has to find his way and he has to figure out who to trust and who he can be friends with and how he can be friends with them now that he is an emperor, because that complicates relationships in ways that most of us don't ever have to deal with. And so the main character, Maya, is this enormously sympathetic figure. He's floundering at first, but you watch him find his way and you watch him figure things out. And on top of that, it's also just a gorgeously built world with sort of the language and the modes of address and the titles that people have are very well thought out and rich and gorgeous. And the prose, again, is lovely. The vision of this imperial city and all the

different chambers of the palace where, you know, Maya holds his audiences with people. You can just get lost in the world. It's just a warm, comforting book. I'm not spoiling anything, I think, by saying that it's a warm, comforting book, and he does kind of find his way in the end. But for many years, it was a standalone, although this summer, actually, a sequel came out, which is only a sequel kind of in the fact that it exists in the same world. It goes in a completely different direction. But that is The Goblin Emperor by Katherine Addison. The sequel that came out is called Witness for the Dead, I think. And they're both just wonderful reads

and you don't have to commit to a story that you are going to fall in love with only to find out that it hasn't ended and might never end. It's a lovely, self-contained hug of a book

and a great place to start if you're interested in fantasy. Well, we want to know what your favorite sci-fi and fantasy novels are. Find us at facebook.com slash PCHH and on Twitter at PCHH. And that brings us to the end of our show. Thank you all for being here.

It was so fun. Thank you so much for having us. This was so much fun. It really, really was. Yeah, thank you. If you want even more recommendations for books, TV, movies, and more, check out our podcast, Pop Culture Happy Hour. We've got daily episodes for all your pop culture needs. And for more Life Kit, go to npr.org slash life kit.

There are episodes on everything from how to manage your anger to how to manage your budget. And if you love Life Kit and want more, subscribe to our newsletter at npr.org slash life kit newsletter. And now a completely random tip, this time from listener Carol Bonner. If you have to use a clothesline to hang clothes out once in a while, I put a swimming noodle over it. I just flip the swimming noodle down the middle with a knife and I flip it right over the clothesline. And then you can put your clothes right on the noodle and not get any of those creases that the clothesline leaves. If you've got a good tip, leave a voicemail at 202-216-9823 or email us a voice memo at lifekit at npr.org. This episode was produced by Audrey Nguyen. Special thanks to Jessica Reedy and Mike Katziff.

Megan Kane is the managing producer and Beth Donovan is our senior editor. I'm Glenn Weldon. Thanks for listening. Over this last year and a half, the world's been through a lot. So on this season of the StoryCorps podcast, we'll hear stories reminding us that even when times are hard, we can still begin again. Listen to our new season wherever you get your podcasts.