Life Kit - The Problem With Toy Guns And Princesses

Episode Date: April 29, 2019

Whether it's mini-makeup kits, gross-smelling slime or semi-automatic foam-dart guns, every parent or caregiver has fielded requests for toys that they're just not that into. We talk about princesses and superheroes and their influence on kids with Rosemarie Truglio of Sesame Workshop and Lisa Dinella, a gender studies professor at Monmouth University. Here's what to remember: - Banning toys outright can be counterproductive. - Pay more attention to how kids play than what they're playing with. - Fight sexism in the playroom by broadening toy selections. - Talk directly to your kids about your values.- Join in your child's play to help expand the possibilities. - Grossed out? Use toilet toys as a chance to teach science — and manners.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

What's in store for the music, TV, and film industries for 2025? We don't know, but we're making some fun, bold predictions for the new year. Listen now to the Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast from NPR. You step on them in the hallway, you shove them back in the closet, they keep coming back to take over your living room. What are we talking about today, Corey? Oh, we are so talking about toys. Toys!

Toys! And to learn more about them, we went to the heart of it Oh, we are so talking about toys. Toys! Toys! And to learn more about them, we went to the heart of it all, the annual Toy Fair New York. That is the Barbie Gallery. It is a mermaid that comes packaged with slime. Two different colors of slime. There's a little button on her back where the girls can put the slime inside, and it's squishy so you can feel that it's in there, and you can take it out and change the color.

That is, sorry, that's unsettling. This is the one-second soaker. This is the first real innovation in squirt guns in about 20 years. Legos. I'm Anya Kamenetz, an NPR education reporter and the mother of two girls. And I'm Corey Turner, an NPR education reporter and the mother of two girls. And I'm Corey Turner, an NPR education reporter and the father of two boys. And we're coming to you today from Toy Fair New York. The largest trade show of its kind in the hemisphere.

And this is Life Kit for Parents with Sesame Workshop. We're here to help you through the tough conversations with kids. Things like death, divorce, and the question for today, we're calling it the toy problem. What to do when your kids start asking you for stuff that makes you feel kind of uncomfortable as a parent. So just like anything, it's got a rotating barrel, and it's full auto, so kids just load up the belt, drop it in, power on, and shoot away.

I'm standing right by a really amazing display. It's a giant. A giant bulbous head. It's a fart ninja, and I'll just say for the record as a mom that farts are not funny. And I don't want to hear farts at the table. And I don't want to hear about a ninja that says silent, butt deadly, B-U-T-T.

That's not a funny joke, okay? Today, the toys that make us cringe. I'm really into potty humor. And what to do about them, right after this. The Indicator is a podcast where daily economic news is about what matters to you. Workers have been feeling the sting of inflation. So as a new administration promises action on the cost of living, taxes, and home prices. The S&P 500 biggest post-election day spike ever.

Follow all the big changes and what they mean for you. Make America affordable again. Listen to The Indicator, the daily economics podcast from NPR. Okay, toys. For some parents, a gun in their kid's hand is a little concerning. Other parents might be freaked out by stinky slime. Or by the sight of their child covered in sequins and sparkles. We're all different, and so are our toy feelings.

So, we're going to help you figure out when you should really be worried and what you can do about it. After the toy fair, we sat down with Rosemarie Trulio from Sesame Workshop. I didn't know about the fart ninjas. Yeah. And we also reached out to Lisa Dinella. She's from Monmouth University, a gender studies professor who has one of the most fun areas of research we've ever heard of.

I actually study superheroes and princesses. Lisa started studying toys and play because she was originally interested in how we choose careers. And she traced the origins of those career choices all the way back to toys and playtime. In fact, Lisa says there appears to be a connection between what our kids play with, how they play with it, and the people they grow up to be. Yeah, here's one example. Lisa says a recent study of kids who use aggressive toys like toy guns, the researchers found a pretty startling pattern. So regardless of whether they were a boy or a girl,

if they were playing with aggressive toys when they were little, they were more aggressive when they were a boy or a girl, if they were playing with aggressive toys when they were little, they were more aggressive when they were teenagers. Now, this study is not the last word on the topic. Researchers have been debating this a long time about whether toys or violent video games cause aggressive behavior or whether they are just a sign of the violent impulses that are already in our children. But still, this is a big study and it's food for thought. Yeah. Here's a different example of how play can really stick with us into adulthood. So a few years back, Lisa and her colleagues surveyed women in college. Shockingly, we found that 33%

of our undergraduate women in our sample said that they identified themselves as princesses. Now, that's not inherently bad. I mean, who doesn't want to feel a little special and sparkly every once in a while? I know you do, Corey. I do. I do. But these princesses had a few things in common. A kind of princess mindset. Yeah, Lisa found they were more likely to say that they valued their mate's physical attractiveness and earning power. They were also less likely themselves to want to get jobs after college.

This is in 2013. Yeah. And here's the clincher. When the women were given a series of really tough puzzles to measure their persistence. The princesses actually quit faster than the women that said that they were not princesses. Wow. Yeah. Again, now Lisa's study doesn't exactly prove

that little girls who dress up like Snow White will all grow up passive and weak and tricked by a poison apple. But it does suggest that this princess mindset becomes packaged with some not very positive beliefs and behaviors. Ah, Corey, I just want to go through my house and rip up all the tutus.

I hear you. I want to go through the house and pick up all the tutos. I hear you. I want to go through the house and pick up all the toy guns. It sounds like what we're hearing is, yes, the toys that our kids play with do have some kind of connections, even if they're not totally clear, with the kinds of people they grow up to be. And so, Corey, what are we supposed to do about that? Well, luckily, we have both Rosemary and Lisa. And so now we're going to run through six clear takeaways from our chat on toys with both of them. Takeaway number one.

Rosemary says you can't just ban every toy that makes you uncomfortable or rip up all the tutus. I don't think banning anything is the answer. We can't 86 those super girly or super violent or super gross toys altogether. And Rosemary says there are a few reasons for this. In her case as a mom, she was uncomfortable when her son Lucas wanted one of those foam dart guns. We had the roll no guns in our home. She had a ban, but she realized that all of Lucas's friends were playing with them.

In the hallway of our apartment building. And she was worried that Lucas would be left out. And Rosemary says that group play and the friendships that come with it, they're all really important for kids. And for me to have this stance on no was not very beneficial for my child. And so she decided to allow the gun with conditions. I do remember coming home with that first gun and, yeah, sitting him down and saying, OK, this is this is how you're going to play with this gun. We're going to be very mindful of where we aim the gun.

You know, we don't want to hurt anyone. And I remember him actually saying, Mommy, it's going to be OK. And it was OK, you know, and there are other reasons Rosemary says that an outright ban just won't work. For me, I don't really like my seven-year-old to wear makeup, but then the other day she came downstairs with Vaseline and baby powder to smear it all over her face. And it was the same story in my house with toy guns. Children are really creative and innovative. How often do you see a child just take the finger and, you know, this is a... A finger gun or a Lego gun or a carrot gun.

Right, right. They'll make it up. Plus, let's be honest, anyone who has kids knows that when you say no, you can't play with that. It kind of makes them want to do it more. And there's always going to be a friend or a grandparent or a neighbor, somebody who's willing to say yes. Now, Lisa is also a mom. And like Rosemary, while she's not wild about toy guns, she didn't ban them either from her house. Instead, she says she tries to strategically downplay them. I'm never going to say, hey, we haven't played with those Nerf guns a lot lately. Let's get those out.

And I will admit that I have on a few occasions maybe even misplaced the toy gun. So if we're not supposed to ban toys, what is the strategy when our kids want something that we don't love? It's our takeaway number two. Rather than rushing in with all our reactions, stop, look and listen. Because more important than what they're playing with, Lisa says, the way that they're playing when they're engaging with these toys. You know, a princess gang could be all about being pretty or it can have a totally sophisticated plot. Or a foam gun battle could be all about strategy and cooperation. You can be really, really aggressive or you can just be shooting targets.

I mean, you can hit your friend over the head with a doll. That's right. That's exactly right. So some of it is just monitoring how they're playing. And one red flag, Rosemary says, is when there's no variety to a child's play. What I would be more concerned about is the child whose play is primarily comprised of aggressive behavior and you don't see your child engage in a range of play. We want to clarify this. Rosemary says in some cases, children who have been through trauma or abuse might act or reenact some pretty scary scenarios in their play, and they might even be encouraged to do this as part of their therapy. Yeah, and in other cases, for example, children on the autism spectrum, having a really focused or what's called a restricted interest, it's really common. Right.

Still, in general, Rosemary says, play prepares us for life, and we want our kids to dream big. It's okay for me to like pink things and pretty things and frilly things, but it shouldn't define who I am, and it shouldn't define who I am and it shouldn't define what I will be in the future. Anyone who is singly defined doesn't make a really interesting person. And that gets us right to takeaway number three, which is sexism is a very real thing. So parents need to take active steps to counter those messages. Unfortunately, we live in a very gender stereotyped world.

Rosemary says books, movies, ads, apps, adults, other kids, they're all sending powerful messages to our kids about what toys they should be choosing. Why are they enchanted by all of that? And you have to think about what is shaping their interests and their motivations. Researchers have shown by looking at toy catalogs over generations that even as our societies become more equal in some ways, toys are actually more gender-typed than they've ever been before. Lisa says kids learn these stereotypes before they're even out of diapers. They're learning about what it means to be a little boy and a little girl really early on.

So between 18 months and 2 years old is the first time that we're starting to see their awareness. It's so early, in fact, that sometimes it feels to parents like these differences are totally inborn. But Lisa says that's not entirely the case. So the research actually is a bit mixed on this. And it isn't just one or the other. It isn't just nature and it isn't just nurture. And in any case, she says, toy companies, they take advantage of the nature and the nurture to sell more stuff in a way that gives our kids fewer options. Yeah, so Lisa's research has gotten at this in a few different ways.

She's done some experiments on how gender branding influences kids' choices. So, for example, in one experiment, she painted all the toys white so that the signal colors for gender, like blue, didn't scream out to the boys and pink didn't scream out to the girls. And without those cues, what she found was that both boys and girls picked more of the stuff that was, you know, just fun. Play-Doh, Etch-a-Sketch. In another study, she gave little kids pink monster trucks and baby dolls in camouflage onesies. So she used traditional color patterns and flipped them on their heads. Yeah. And the title of the study summarizes what she found, which is

pink gives girls permission. There's a bigger barrier to boys playing with girl things and acting like girls than there is for girls to be able to venture into some of these cross-gender plays. So in other words, it's almost like little girls have more options than little boys. Absolutely. And she says you can see this difference in how hard our culture still comes down on the little boys who love princesses and sparkly things. So these trends that we're seeing in terms of deciding certain toys are for girls or for boys really just limits their fun. And we don't, that's not what we want. We want

kids to have as many opportunities as possible. If you need more reasons to expand your kids' play options, Lisa also found in her research that lots of toys teach really important and unexpected skills. When we see tea sets, for example, that actually has been shown to teach cognitive sequencing of events, which is a fancy way of saying the beginning, the middle, and the end of a task. And you can see where that would be really important for boys to be able to master. Absolutely. It is coding. In other words, you can help your child, boy or girl, learn the foundations of computer coding by throwing a tea party. Yeah, who knew?

So Lisa suggests that when we're toy shopping, we should strive for the gender balanced and the gender neutral whenever we can. And she says we should tell our kids something like this. You can play with that toy. That's a great choice. Can we get it in the white version so that all of the kids, when they come to our house, can play with it instead of just the pink version. That would be one suggestion. Our words really do matter. And little tiny changes like making sure that you aren't only encouraging them to do the thing that matches with their

gender group is really important. And this gets us to takeaway number four. We can talk to our kids directly and share our values around toys. So you can say, this dress-up toy that was given to you, although it's really sparkly, it does really talk to you about being pretty. And I would rather you spend time trying to get smart. Rosemary helped Sesame tackle this in an episode where Baby Bear likes playing with a baby doll. But his friend makes him feel embarrassed. So he ends up talking all this over with one of the humans on the show.

Gordon, I'm a boy, and dolls are for girls. Says who? There's no reason why something should be just for girls or just for boys. There's not? No. Look at this shirt. Yeah? You know, there are some people who think that the color pink is just for girls. Oh, is it?

No. I like to wear pink. You know? And there's nothing wrong with that. Well, I guess it does bring out the woesiness in your cheeks. Oh, well. The great thing about this moment is it's not just about pink. Gordon connects it to something even bigger. Playing daddy to your baby doll is great practice

for when you get older and become a real daddy bear. Imagine that. Me, a real daddy bear. That's right. I love this so much. So do I. So, Corey, people can't see this, but you've got a pink shirt on right now.

I do have a pink shirt, and I have had this very conversation with my 6-year-old. He looked at the shirt, and he said, why are you wearing pink? And I said, because I like pink. Score one for gender equality. And Lisa says, it's not just pink, it's toys, it's everything. In my family, we actually have the saying, there's no such thing as girls' toys and boys' toys. There's just toys and kids.

Okay, so this gets us to my favorite takeaway of all. Takeaway number five. Join in your child's play. Yeah, so Anya, let's say there's a shootout in the OK Corral, also known as your kitchen, and it's getting really out of hand. You have to intervene, and you have to explain why you intervened, right? So you don't intervene and say, you know, that's wrong and, you know, you're punished, go to your room. I mean, that's not going to do anything. You have to help children take on the perspective of others.

So how do you do that? Maybe you take on a character role and that character role is the character who is going to stop this type of aggression. I got this, Corey. You can be the new sheriff in town, the one who gets all the outlaws to put down their guns and say sorry and hug and talk about their problems around the campfire with some beans. I'm going to take the recording of you doing that voice and I'm going to make it the ringtone on my phone because that was awesome. I also have to admit that my wife, Rachel, got me a Han Solo belt and holster that I can wear whenever my boys are playing with toy guns in the house and things get a little out of hand. So I can jump in and maybe redirect. We do some target practice. Tone it down.

I like that a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So actually, it reminds me, another researcher I talked to had an idea about a dad who played princesses with his daughter, but he would get out the fire truck and get the princesses out on rescue missions. I love that. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, it goes back to what Rosemary told us. Time and time again, it really is up to parents to help expand their kids' sense of what's possible. Parents have to provide these other opportunities because kids play what they see. If you could see it, you could play it, and then one day you could be it. And the good news here is we don't have to do this all on our own. The culture is changing a little bit, too. Yeah, in one of Lisa's studies, she asked preschoolers, both boys and girls,

to describe themselves and also to describe what they knew about princesses. Yeah, and so for princesses, they gave a pretty typical girly girl who needs to be rescued. And then the researchers showed the children video clips of more recent princess characters, like the movie Brave and Frozen, where they're taking action and they're being powerful. Here's a tiny sample of what they played for the kids. How dare you? All of you, standing around deciding my future? I am not a prize to be won.

Whoa! Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! Easy! Slow down! Whoa! Easy, boy! whoa. Easy. Hold on. Whoa. Easy, boy. Easy. Easy.

I am Merida, and I'll be shooting for my own hand. Yeah, so here's what's so interesting. Watching those images change the children's perceptions of princesses. And also, Lisa said, they change their own self-perceptions. Right. So after seeing princesses being powerful, both the girls and the boys described themselves as more multidimensional. So they will say that I am strong, I am powerful, I am a leader. But they'll also say I am caring and I take care of people and I share. Let's take this in for a moment, Corey.

You know, when kids, wherever they are on the gender spectrum, when they get a chance to spend time with characters who are more complex through play or through pop culture, it actually changes the way they see themselves. Yeah, I mean, I love that. And let's be honest, like, it's not just true for kids. It's true for all of us. We really have to look for more complex characters in our books and our movies and everything that we do. And now finally, Anya. Yes. We're coming to my favorite takeaway. Trailing on the end here. Yeah. Like a piece of toilet paper on your shoes. Just kind of stuck there. It's kind of on the butt end of this audio guide. Just a little awkwardly, kind of like a booger on your finger. You just can't flick it off. Takeaway number six.

Number six. It's about gross toys. Those farting ninjas, those poop emojis, the booger board games. You know what we're talking about. We know you know what we're talking about because we talked to Steve Pusserb. He's president and CEO of the Toy Association. He helps run the toy fair we were at. And he told us this.

You know, last year, for some reason, poop was in. So there was all these kind of poop-themed toys. And like all good journalists, Anya, we had to fact-check this claim. I'm really into potty humor. I usually do, like, jokes. He's a really good armpit farter. I learned leg farts, which are hard to do with pants on. Whoopie Cousins, I think the name was. Yeah, I did it to my mom.

So Rosemary says there's one simple reason for this boom economy in poo-poo play. Children are fascinated with how the body works. Yeah. And while the fart fun can get tiresome for us grown-ups. Oh, you never get sick of it, Corey. No, I don't. But I know that you do. Rosemary says we can turn that negative into a positive. These kinds of toys give you an opportunity not only to talk about how the body works, why do we burp? Why do we fart? Why do we vomit? Oh, in other words, because science.

Yeah, exactly. And we can't say it enough. Kids learn through play. So don't poo-poo the power of poo-poo to teach them something about their bodies. Yes, but Rosemary also says, which is more to my liking, that we can also use this pot of humor to teach manners. Even on Sesame Street, when Cookie Monster burps after he eats a cookie, he says, excuse me. So it's an opportunity for parents to talk about these social norms and to have your child have manners. And maybe when they're playing with these toys, remind them. Playing with poo is fun.

Playing with poo is fun. But remember, wash your hands after you wipe and if you burp, say excuse me. On that note, I think it's time to wrap things up. I think it's just about time

that we did. Yeah, here's a quick refresher of everything we talked about about toys. All right, takeaway number one. Banning it isn't the answer. I don't think banning anything is the answer.

Number two, take a deep breath, press pause on your big feelings about a toy and watch how your kids play with it. Takeaway number three, sexism is real and we can fight it in the playroom with different toy choices. You already have four of these dolls. Is there a chance that we might want to get one more doll but also one more truck? Takeaway number four, talk to your kids directly about your values. In my family, we actually have the saying, there's no such thing as girls' toys and boys' toys.

There's just toys and kids. Takeaway number five, join in your child's play. If you think your child's being too aggressive with a gun play or a little too beauty obsessed with a princess play, don't just shut it down. Roll up your sleeves and get in there, partner. If you could see it, you could play it, and then one day you could be it. And finally, number six, the stuff that puts the toy in toilet.

The stuff you wish you could flush. Consider these things a golden opportunity to dig into the science of our bodies and to talk about manners. Good luck with that, Corey. And that's all for this episode of Life Kit for Parents. Thank you so much for listening. And special thanks to Lisa Dinella, Rosemarie Trulio, and all our friends at Sesame Workshop. And the other awesome toy researchers we talked to for this episode, Rebecca Haynes, Peggy Orenstein, Jeffrey Trawick-Smith, and Julia DeLapp.

For more NPR Life Kit, check out our next episode, where we'll talk about how to tell your kids about a divorce. If you like what you hear, make sure to check out our other Life Kit guides at npr.org slash Life Kit. And while you're there, subscribe to our newsletter so you don't miss anything. We've got more guides coming every month on all sorts of topics. And as always, here's a completely random tip, this time from NPR listener Marie Richter of Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin.

If you have an achy muscle or an injury, it's nice to have some type of a heat pack. And I find I can make my own at home. I take any type of white rice and a clean, dry tube sock, and I put the rice into the tube sock. Then you put the rice bag into the microwave, and I microwave it usually initially for about a minute, and then I'm ready to go. If you've got a good tip or a parenting challenge you want us to explore, please let us know. Email us at lifekit at npr.org. Life Kit for Parents is edited by Steve Drummond and produced by Lauren McGackie, Sylvie Douglas, Elisa Escarce, and Chloe Weiner. With special help from Jessica Yarmoski. Megan Cain is the managing producer, and our digital editor is Carol Ritchie.

Music by Nick Dupre and Brian Gerhart. Our project manager is Mathilde Piard. Neil Carruth is our general manager of podcasts, and the senior vice president of programming is Anya Grunman. I'm Corey Turner. And I'm Anya Kamenetz. Thanks for listening. I cannot believe you did that. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. God, what is happening in here? I don't know.

I don't know. Sorry. I have totally degraded Anya's standards. I really, I can't give it up. I've given away all of my standards. Okay. The future of edible insects? Life found in duck poop?

Why boredom is anything but boring? And how our brains handle something so cute we can't even? I'm Mindy Thomas from NPR's Wow in the World podcast. And if you have a curious kid in your life, check it out. Laugh and learn together. Find Wow in the World on Apple Podcast out. Laugh and learn together. Find Wow in the World on Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.