Life Kit - 'We Wanted To Show Children Real Life': Sesame Street's Sonia Manzano

Episode Date: May 31, 2019

Actress Sonia Manzano is beloved by millions as Maria on Sesame Street. Her character r on TV mirrored many of Manzano's real-life milestones, like marriage and motherhood (Elmo served as ring bearer for Maria's wedding on the show). She also wrote for Sesame Street in later years, and helped the show address diversity issues. In this special episode, Manzano reflects on her 44 seasons on Sesame Street, what she thinks was the show's most poignant moment — and which Muppet was secretly her favorite.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

What's in store for the music, TV, and film industries for 2025? We don't know, but we're making some fun, bold predictions for the new year. Listen now to the Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast from NPR. This is a special, extra special, episode of Life Kit for Parenting with Sesame Workshop. Yeah, we're going to talk with one of the most iconic humans from Sesame Street. Hi, welcome to Sesame Street. I just fixed Mrs. Guzman's toaster and we're just checking to make sure that it works. Now let's see, make sure it's plugged in and oh, there. It's working. Sonia Manzano played Maria on Sesame Street for 44 seasons. That's not just a career, it's a lifetime.

Do you, Maria, take Luis to be your husband in good times and bad, to love him and care for him always? I do. I now pronounce you husband and wife. Yay! Little baby, I want you to meet all our friends. Hi. Hi, little, um, uh, gee, what's your name?

Gabriela. Oh. I loved Maria. She was totally my favorite, for real. She ran the fix-it shop. She was so kind, so patient. But she was also really fierce when she needed to be. Totally.

You know, meeting her at NBR Studios in New York, it was kind of like reconnecting with an old friend. So we talked with Sonia about her time on Sesame, including the Muppet she'd most like to have dinner with. I'm Corey Turner. I'm Ani Kamenetz, and this is Life Kit for Parenting. We'll get to all of that after the break. Of all her 44 seasons on Sesame Street, the episode Sonia Manzano says was the most poignant for her. Where is he?

Big Bird, don't you remember we told you Mr. Hooper died? He's dead. That's Sonia Manzano as Maria breaking some tough news to Carol Spinney as Big Bird. Well, he's got to come back. Who's going to take care of the store? And who's going to make my birdseed milkshakes and tell me stories? We drew on this piece of TV history quite a bit in our earlier Life Kit episode on how to talk to kids about death. And if you remember, Mr. Hooper, the character who ran Sesame's Corner Store, was played by actor Will Lee. And Will Lee, the actor, actually died in 1982.

I just remember, obviously, the whole cast was heartbroken that our beloved cast member, Will Lee, who played Mr. Hooper for so many years, was no longer with us. Manzano remembers Lee fondly as a deeply devoted actor and as a lifelong activist. Will Lee was James Earl Jones's acting teacher. Really? Yes. Really? So Will Lee came from this whole kind of method acting world. He was a political activist in the 30s.

He would tell me about Kazan. And as you know, during the MacArthur era. Elia Kazan? Elia Kazan, the director. Many people were blacklisted and Kazan named names. And Willie would tell me about that time and how he saw Kazan on the street, and he crossed the street because he didn't want to face him. And he would tell us about marching in the 30s for union rights. And I always loved the way he would deliver lines on Sesame Street because he'd go,

but, but, but, big bird. I mean, oh, oh, God. You know, and he would do all of this kind of behavior. And I said to the producer, I said to Chelsea Singer, I just love the way he delivers his lines with all that hesitation coming back. I want to do that. And she said, no, no. I think he just doesn't remember his lines.

But he was one of those kind of method actors of that era. And I loved him for that, though. He always used to say when we wanted him to be on the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade, he'd say, I didn't work this hard all my life to work this hard. Willie's death wasn't just hard on the cast. It posed a real challenge to the show's writers. We didn't know, and I heard through hearing this through the grapevine, how to handle his departure. And of course, everyone said,

well, let's just say he retired. And let's do everything but say that Mr. Hooper had died. But a basic principle of Sesame Street was always that we wanted to show children real life, the way the world worked. So it was all the job of Dulce Singer, who was the executive producer, who really fought back the sensibility of let's say he went away, or let's kind of gloss it over. She really wanted to face it head on. And she did a remarkable job of it. This is so important because it's something we also talked about in our episode, which is that so many times we want to soften things for kids and beat around the bush and tell them, you know, their dog went to live on a farm or, you know, somebody passed away. But really having the courage to be clear with kids. Yes. And actually, you really comfort them more if you're straight up with them and tell them the truth. I'll quote Fred Rogers, who said, why leave them to the mercy of their imaginings? Why not tell them exactly what's going on? And I remember as a kid having questions myself about life. And I actually, my mother was pretty good about them. I asked her once why she went to work when other mothers stayed home,

because at that time, you know, mothers stayed home and she had to go to work in a factory. And she said, look, if I didn't go to work, we could not make ends meet. We wouldn't have enough money. Of course, I'd like to stay home with you, but I can't. So that's another straight up answer. Because I was thinking that she just didn't want to be with us when she left every morning. Do you remember anything about the response to the episode? Well, it was absolutely groundbreaking. It was scheduled to be shown on Thanksgiving Day so that parents would be home

with the child. And after the showing of Goodbye, Mr. Hooper, there was a beautiful little piece that was just classical music and no dialogue. So there was a moment to reflect. So it was set up very carefully. Of course, people said, oh, some people said, how could they do death? Our culture cannot handle dying. You know, and other cultures have certain rituals that they go through, but we have a particularly difficult time. Why do you think, why are we so bad at death? That's a very good question. And if I had the answer to that, I'd bottle it and sell it. Manzano also began writing for Sesame Street in the mid-80s, thanks to executive producer Dulce Singer.

I would question some of the Latino content on the show. And then I would say, well, you should do this, you should do that. And she finally said, why don't you try writing some of this material yourself? Now, at that time, there were no Latino writers. So she challenged me, and I really backtracked. And I said, oh, my goodness, you know, I'm going to put my money where my mouth is. And that's how I started writing the show. And, you know, at that time, I was able to write about falling in love, getting married on Sesame Street and nursing on Sesame Street when I was behind the scenes and put my own. But I still think that the Goodbye, Mr. Hooper was the most poignant show that we did.

I mean, it sounds like I'm talking about a reality show, right? Marriage, birth, death. Well, it's life, yeah. Even though it's in this fantasy world. Even though in this fantasy world, it was very true. It was very true to the world. And it was a time where we weren't that concerned with teaching how a kid should go through school,

through tasks of a certain generation. It was kind of the world in general and how things have always worked in the world. Well, this is really interesting because I know one of the things that Anya and I really wanted to hear about from you was, again, you spent, it was 44 seasons on the show, right? How did you see the world change? You must have seen a lot of pretty big shifts. I saw a lot of shifts. I saw a lot of the television landscape change profoundly in all of those years. And the show was first a magazine format inspired by variety shows and laughing. And now we've changed.

Now there's more narrative because kids started watching Seinfeld and Friends and they wanted a storyline. And I think the show always took into account what was happening in television in general. Didn't make a separate world for a kid's show. We had a producer, John Stone, who always said, kids, they don't want to live in their own little world. Believe me, they want a piece of the action as soon as possible.

They want to participate as soon as possible. So this whole sort of Peter Pan, I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up, is a fallacy. Kids want to grow up. As you know, they want to take charge. And Sesame Street always took that into account. So we're at the very beginning of this journey of creating media for parents. So we can take advantage of your wisdom. Because something that's come up a few times is thinking about we're instructing parents.

We're giving clear takeaways. But it does depend on your values sometimes. And sometimes there's judgment calls. And how did you guys do that in the most inclusive way possible at Sesame? Without sounding preachy. Which you didn't. You were funny. Yeah.

Absolutely. Being funny does a lot. And you'll get further and people will understand you better if you put the humor in. But I think we kind of reached out to the general consensus of people. We didn't get into specific culture unless we did get into specific cultures. They kept telling me in the beginning that I should be myself.

So I would use a lot of Spanglish. I was born in the United States, so I was raised on that. And I thought they were proper Spanish words. My mother would use them. Your parents were both Puerto Rican? Yeah, they came from Puerto Rico in the 40s and met here, and I was born here in the 50s. And I would say words to Big Bird, Big Bird, let's go lonchar for lunch.

Well, that's not a word. Or I'll say, let's go to El Rufo for a roof. Or park the car, Parquea el carro. You know, something like that. So, you know, the research people would come down and say to the producers, you know, Maria's not using proper words. I'd say, how dare you say I'm not using a proper Spanish word. My mother says this and she lives, she came from Puerto Rico. Well, then I would talk to Emilio Delgado, who plays Luis, Mexican American. And he'd say,

you know, I got to tell you, I never heard those words either. So then that made me thoughtful about it. And, you know, and I realized that I was giving them a little bit of Nuyorican culture. They wanted real culture, and that was my real culture. So if anything, it showed me that if there's a problem, really face it. Use it as an opportunity to explore. Looking back now on your time on the show, I'm curious if one or two really intimate memories of yours stand out. I loved getting married on on the show. Maria's wedding was very popular and kids had little wedding parties with little cupcakes at home to see me get married. And at the time, I was recently married. And I was able to put my own feelings about marriage in the show in a way that a child would be interested in.

And also, of course, having the baby. And as you know, if you have a child, when you have a child, everything changes, right? Like you see the world differently. And I felt that when I had my child. And so I wanted to say, I thought to myself, how do I put that in this show? And I made Oscar think that he was not going to be a grouch anymore because he was so interested in my pregnancy and he was so excited about meeting the baby. And he's worried. What does this mean?

Everything's changing. I'm not a grouch anymore. I really love the baby. And then I'm able to calm him and say, don't worry, Oscar, babies change everything, but not your personality. Your personality will be intact. And I remember writing something where Gabby destroys the cassette tape. She's two years old and she destroys a cassette tape. And Oscar says, aha, proof. She's a grouch. Look how she destroyed that tape.

And then I was able to give the parenting a tip or to acknowledge, two-year-olds like to explore, and they're destroying that. But they're not really destroying it because they're grouches. They're destroying it because they are curious. So if you had to be stuck on a deserted island, what Muppet would you want to be stuck with? Oscar the Grouch. Really? Really?

Oh, throwing a curveball. Why? I mean, because I find that character nuanced. You're either talking to a kid or a 40-year-old. And, you know, I could imagine Oscar and I going out to dinner. When you can imagine. I mean, I could imagine. I could imagine all of them going, you know.

They were such fully formed entities. He was appealing and that he had a whole world in that trash can that we didn't see was fabulous. He had a pool and an elephant and it was a magical place that we never saw. Well, thank you, Sonia Manzano, for coming on and talking with us. We really appreciate it. Yeah, thanks so much. It's been a terrific time for me to be on the show, and I love to share stories about it. So thank you so much for listening. Actress Sonia Manzano played Maria on Sesame Street for 44 seasons. And she's still in the children's media business, working on books and a new television show. For more NPR Life Kit, check out our other episodes at npr.org slash life kit. And while you're there, subscribe to our newsletter so you don't miss anything.

Yeah, we've got more guides coming every month on all sorts of topics, like how to buy a home or how to learn to love exercise. I'm working on that one. And here, as always, is a completely random tip, this time from our fellow Life Kit host, Maria Godoy. All right, parents, if you want to go on vacation and actually enjoy it, here's a tip. Make friends with a family that has kids of similar ages your own and then invite them to go on vacation with you. That way, the parents get to hang out and play and the kids entertain each other so you actually get to relax. Trust me, this one is one I rely on. If you've got a good tip or want to suggest a topic,

email us. We're at lifekit at npr.org. I'm Anya Kamenetz. And I'm Corey Turner. Thanks for listening. Sadie Alexander was the first African American to earn a PhD in economics. Sadie Alexander spoke to the audience about the persistence of racial discrimination and the status of Black workers as marginal workers. Join the Indicator from Planet Money for more profiles of unsung economists and other topics from economics and business every day and in less than 10 minutes. is crucial, which is why teams at one-third of Fortune 500 companies use Grammarly. With top-tier security credentials and 15 years of experience in responsible AI, Grammarly isn't just another AI communication assistant. It's how companies like yours increase productivity while keeping data protected and private.

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