Live Free with Josh Howerton - 3 Megachurch Pastors Discuss Muslim Immigration in America | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Episode Date: November 10, 2025

In this culturally urgent episode of Live Free, Pastors Josh Howerton, Darren Tyler, and Nolan Tjaden unpack one of the most complex questions facing the Church today: how should believers respond to political division and the rise of competing worldviews? From secular progressivism to radical Islam, we dive into ideologies of power in contrast with the gospel of Jesus, the only message that truly transforms hearts and nations. This episode challenges men, families, and churches to think biblically, lead courageously, and stand firm for truth in a generation searching for its moral compass.   👍 Like, Comment, & Subscribe for more life-changing podcasts! 🔔 Turn on notifications so you never miss an update!     📝 SHOW NOTES Subscribe now to receive the show notes directly in your inbox with each new episode. These notes are filled with key insights and scripture to help you reflect and grow deeper in your faith – https://lakepointe.church/shownotes    👇 DON’T MISS OUT! God can use your 'YES" to make a difference in someone's life! Click the link to learn more about our Annual Missions Offering and how you can be a part of life-change!: lp.social/amo   ⛪ ABOUT LAKEPOINTE CHURCH:We believe that Lakepointe is a movement for all people to Know God, Find Freedom, Discover their Calling, and Make a Difference. With 7 DFW locations and programs for all ages, there's something for everyone.  🤝 Support this ministry and help us reach more people with the Gospel: https://lakepointe.church/give    STAY CONNECTED:🌐 Website: https://lakepointe.church/👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lpconnect/📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lpconnect 🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lakepointechurch   FOLLOW PASTOR JOSH:👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/HowertonJosh/📸 Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/josh_howerton/?hl=en 🎥 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@howertonjosh GUEST PASTORS:📸 Nolan Tjaden: https://www.instagram.com/nolantjaden/📸 Darren Tyler: https://www.instagram.com/darrentyler/    🎧 LISTEN ON THE GO! ▶️ Live Free on Spotify / https://open.spotify.com/show/353ryGdZNlebaiqkCcy3Yc▶️ Live Free on Apple Podcasts / https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-free-with-josh-howerton/id1669321198

Welcome to Live Free with Pastor Josh Howardton. We're so glad you're here. Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know Jesus, live free, and make a difference with their lives. And this weekly podcast is all about helping you do just that. Each episode is a deep dive into the Word of God tackling life, culture, and faith with truth and clarity so you can be equipped to live free in Christ.

Thanks for tuning in. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode and follow us on all our social platforms to stay connected to everything happening with Live Free. Now, let's dive into today's episode. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of The Live Free podcast. My name is Carlos Arrasen. I'm here with Pastor Josh Howardton and Pastor Paul Cunningham,

also known as the Epistle Missile. Carlos, did you go trick-or-treating? I did not. You didn't, dang. But did, you know what? Did you? All right, so this is a true story. By the way, if anybody saw one of my kids on Halloween night

and they looked homeless, there's a reason. So Elionne went and hung out with some friends, and she had a great time. So it was just us and the littles. This is not what this podcast is about welcome to the Howardson family. And we just, we're sitting all around. And I just had a dad moment. I was like, let's go drive around and just see other people's costumes, because we were just hanging out at home. So they get in the car.

Hudson's his PJs. He has one shoe on. Felicity looks, she's a hot mess. Well, we're getting out, and we've seen these. two people in rocking chairs giving out candy and Hudson was like can we go get candy and I was like well why not you know why not so then they start running around well Hudson is in his PJs with one shoe so then they start you know they don't have costumes on they just start rolling around Hudson ends up running around like this super wealthy neighborhood we drove to somebody else neighborhood we's running around

like this very wealthy neighborhood with one shoe Jan is embarrassed as a mom she's like my kids running around. It's like a homeless kid. I was going to say if he asked what he is, I'm a socialist. You know, just, what are you? I'm a Bernie Sanders. I'm a mom-doney voter. I'm a wealthy neighborhood to take candy from you. Oh my goodness. It's amazing. So then literally, that's a great way to start a podcast. That is a great way. So then literally, we, Jana was literally hiding in the truck because we're rolling the windows down and we hear one of the ladies go, where's your shoes, son? And he's like, he says, I don't have it.

He's your foot cold. Jana's mortified. Welcome to live free. Speaking of your chain candy. Hey, Carlos, I will say just, I got to confess a little bitterness on the podcast right now. I passed by the studio multiple times last week and I noticed something that was still on the table. And that was the candy corn. Oh.

You didn't take the candy corn with you. You. I thought I put it in my bag. What are you talking about? Sitting here pretending like you liked it melts in your mouth. It wasn't here when I got here. I got left behind. Oh, man.

I'm sorry. That was my bad. Nah, I'm playing with you. But speaking of thick and candy from rich people, we're going to be addressing. A good transition. We're going to be addressing Mamdani today. Hebrews chapter 12 verse 1. The mom-dani election win.

That's right. The same night, Jay Jones. the progressive guy who it's not funny i don't know i don't know why i'm laughing the progressive guy who literally texted people about slaughtering conservative political opponents and then doubled down said he wasn't joking in the text message and talked about shooting their children guy gets elected in virginia it was just a interesting week you got the whole a lot of other stuff we'll get to weird stuff later but we're going to be talking all of it 75% of people that are viewing

Live Free episodes are not yet subscribed on YouTube so thank you for subscribing. That actually really helps us and a couple things as well. Coming up in two weeks the week of November 29, we actually have a special Christmas at the movies weekend and if you don't know what that is. Can I say while we're doing that? Please. Pastor Josh, why are we doing Christmas at the movies?

First of all, I always say this because we get online you're doing it at the movie. So here's why we're doing this is first of all we are not preaching movies. We're using movies to illustrate biblical truths. I always want to say that because you get people who say that. Number two, Jesus' primary form of teaching was what, Carlos and Paul? It was parables.

Parables comes from a Greek word, two Greek words put together. Para means alongside, and Bali means to cast or to throw. So what Jesus would do is he would take a spiritual truth and throw it alongside. Here's another thing people don't know. A lot of people don't know this. We should do a pot on this sometime. Multiple of Jesus, I'm going to say it and then we'll see if you knew it already. Multiple of Jesus parables were already culturally popular stories, like moral stories that their culture already had.

And then Jesus would change the ending. I think there's two of them. I did a whole series on the parables years ago. And I discovered this. There's like two of Jesus parables that were already popular stories and he changed the ending. So anyway, he was taking stories. stories that were, did you, have you heard that before? I'm trying to remember which they were.

I can't, at the top of head, I can't remember. I think one of them, I think prodigal son was one of them. And it ended very different. Because that's, that's the one I was thinking, because I would say it's like, from what I understand, if you remember differently correct me, is that really like when this younger son comes home, it isn't the dad's right to have, to kill him. Yeah, to basically have the town stone him. Yes, it was a capital offense.

Yeah. Okay. So you and I had heard the same thing. I thought that was one, but I was, yeah. So anyway, they'd be president. I mean, if you think about like the Genesis story, there's some parallels with some, and so where like the Israel story would be, there's some similarities,

but different twists, different message. Totally. So anyway, what you think about, Jesus was taking stories that were popular in his day, using those stories and then to illustrate spiritual truth, that's literally what we're doing at the movies. And then we've already told it before on the pod, so I won't do it again.

but if you don't know the story, you just need to go Google. Like, Google something like J.R. Tolkien shares the gospel with C.S. Lewis. And literally how C.S. Lewis got converted from atheism of Christianity is J.R. Tolkien used stories, fictional stories that he was fascinated by, fairy stories. We call him fairy tales. That's what he was teaching at Oxford at the time. And he showed him how every story to use the words of the Jesus storybook Bible, whispers his name. So that's what we're doing.

So the week, it's the weekend after Thanksgiving. So Thanksgiving is on Thursday, the Saturday, right after Thanksgiving, that's when Christmas at the movie starts at Lake Point. The reason we started doing that is everybody kept telling me,

Pastor Josh, all my family's in town. I have all these lost family members. Could you guys please do something that would be really great for them to hear the gospel? so that's the reason we do it. Bring all your family. It's going to be awesome.

That's amazing. And by the way, wait, wait, wait, last thing. On this same conversation? Hang on. Can I get this camera right here? Is that camera where? All right. I'm going to give a hint.

I was wondering. I'm going to give a hint. Right. And it's only our YouTubers are going to be able to know what it is. The hint for the Christmas at the movies movie is. Die hard. I knew it all along. It's going to be good week.

I knew it. Man, Bruce Willis. right here. He's you need, YouTubers will know you're lying. Oh man, and speaking about the movies, in fact, we have a giveaway and the way we will give a live free hat is, how about in the comment section, let us know, I guess, yeah, let us know what movie

you think it will be. What's your movie guest? Yeah, that's a Christmas movie. That's right, that's right. What's your movie guest? If you can't see it, it's one of these fantastic things, I'm wearing one right now, and the live free merch shop is coming up online soon. Because we tried to get it up last week. I'm really sorry if you tried to go. Man, well, here's the thing. So the demand is higher than expected because you guys are sharing the episode, liking.

Actually, live free nation. Live free nation. Like the viewership is just like skyrocketed. And so we're working on, you know, on that live free merch shop coming soon. So stay tuned. Last week's winner, by the way, was for the, for the winner of the hat was Priscilla. Gypson Huntley 1842 shout out wow well done we got a hat for you so go ahead and comment right now what movie you think it will be uh watching slash talking about for Christmas at the

movies and you might be a winner man uh we just had student ministry or student weekend dude it was awesome it was fun yeah it was much fun it was awesome man so we do this um obviously i preach we didn't have a student preach um but it was like students it was awesome man it was students hosting the service we had students leading worship. We had a student that did L.P. News, which was amazing. And one of the things we preached that we were preaching on is the responsibility of every Christian to own the passing up the baton of the gospel to the next generation. That's amazing. Hey, in honor of having students help us this weekend, this last weekend, I asked Chad GBT to help me promote the discipleship guide using

Gen C. slang. Are you ready? Oh, wow. Are you ready? So this is Chad, by the way, I'm a young millennial. So this is, we'll see how it goes. I don't know what half of the words means, but here it goes. All right, chat, real talk.

Following Jesus isn't a solo quest. It's a group project. No cap. Discipleship hits different when you're locked in with your people, not out here trying to go lone wolf moat, bet. So if this episode had you low-key like, Dang, that's buzzing for real. Don't ghost it.

Run it back with your crew. Don't be suss about community. We don't want that Ohio energy. What is that mean? Bro. We dropped all the highlights, hot takes, bonus tea, and fire convol prompt so you can keep viving on what God's doing.

It's giving spiritual growth arc for real, for real. It's all in the show notes, a.k.a. your discipleship guide, your growth cheat code. Just text the word notes to 20411 or slide over to lake point. that church slash show notes stay rooted stay real let jesus cook you already know this episode eight and left no crumbs i have no words i'll give that a six or a seven oh yeah i was wondering

sorry i had to i had to slide that in hey oh for my gen z brothers and sisters let me know how i did trinity trinities are gen z representative here trinity yes no it's okay you're not going to hurt my feelings okay she says yes well i was waiting for skibbitty toilet res bro i can't keep a straight face saying that word i just I can't. All right, you want to talk about, so here's what we're going to talk about. First of all, I have a Return of Christ thing that didn't make it into the last pod that I want to get in. I have a theory.

I'm going to do a theory and then I want to which theory is. And then we're going to talk about Hebrews 12, what Jesus is doing right now. I actually want to hit that because Hebrews 12 alludes to it. What is Jesus? Pop quiz for the listeners. What is Jesus doing right now? We'll get to that in a second. And then the role, well, actually, we'll talk, we'll get there.

We'll get there a second, yeah. Pastor Josh, I have a question for you. I am. I will allow it. Thank you. When did I make it through the sermon? Okay. Well, wait, wait, so here's what didn't make it in the last week's pod.

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right. All right. So here's what didn't make it in the last week's pod. I realized when we were finished, like, dang, I really wanted to get that in. All right, I got a theory. Okay. So in my personal Bible reading last week, I had to read, not had to, that sounds terrible. I read one of the days was First and Second Thessalonians.

Those are the New Testament epistles that are not revelation that talk the most about the return of Christ. Obviously the message last week was on that. Okay, so here's a theory. So I'm reading First and Second Thessalonians and in First Thessalonians three in particular, and then he does it in Second Thessalonians, I think end of one or beginning of two. There's just lots of very specific, here's what's going to happen when Jesus' return. turn stuff. So then what I'm doing, I'm going to give away a little hint. And by the way, I strongly recommend this if you double check the results. I'm a pastor. I have a theology degree. I sit there

when I'm doing my Bible reading with Grock expert. And I will literally ask it questions while I'm reading. Because a lot of times, you know, let's say I'm reading a narrative passage, and it's like they went from here to here. And I'll just get curious. I'm like, well, how many miles is it from and it's pretty accurate. So it's helpful. So anyway, Paul, so Paul's saying in first and second Thessalonians, and it's very specific. And it's not stuff that was alluded to or prophesied about in the Old Testament. So then I'm like, I wonder where he got this.

Okay. So First Thessalonians is where people get the rapture concept. Side note, we don't have to go into this discussion. a belief in a rapture as modern dispensational theologians view it is a historically minority position. So that's a whole thing. Now, I will say, I think I'm a post-trib rapture guy, but that's a whole different thing. I think that's where I'm. I have a lot of questions.

All right. All right. We don't have time to get into this now. I think where I land, I think where I land is what's called historic pre-millennial. George Ladd already but not yet. Eschatology. All right, so no, that's not what I'm talking about. All right, so Paul is in First Thessalonians talking about

what is modern, is now called the rapture. That comes from First Thessalonians 417, where it says, we who are alive will be, and then it uses the word, caught up. Some translations will actually use snatched away to meet the Lord. And then it says, and so we will be with the Lord forever. all right so then i'm like i wonder where paul got this here i got a theory i've never heard this before and i have a rule that if you've never heard it before it's probably wrong so then i'm i'm with grok and i ask and i double check this i i new testament search for the greek word that gets

translated rapture is the greek word harpazzo okay it means to seize forcibly snatch away or catch up then I ask Grock, give me every New Testament verse that uses that word, all right? One of the only other usages is in 2 Corinthians 12, when Paul is talking about, quote, unquote, I know a man. You know this passage? He goes, he goes, I know a man who one time was caught up to the third heaven. Now, if you're new to the Bible, you may hear that and I wonder what he's talking about. What Paul's doing is essentially he has too much humility to go, it was me.

He's going, it was me. And Paul says in 2 Corinthians that he had literally a not, I don't actually think it's describing even a vision. I think he's saying in some real sense, I was, he says, I was caught up to the third heaven. and he says, I saw things which no man may utter. Okay, this is what he says. And essentially, by the way, if you're new to the Bible, the third heaven, so in New Testament, Parliance or Larlands. Yeah, that's a good way to say it.

The sky, like the sky this blue, is the first heaven. Space, they had some concept of wherever the stars are. That's the second heaven. The third heaven was like heaven, heaven, like where Jesus is right now. Okay. So he goes, hey, I was caught with the third heaven. things which no man may utter. Very interesting. One of the only other uses of the Greek word harpadoad that gets translated rapture is in 2nd Corinthians 12 when Paul goes, I was harpazzoed to the

third heaven. Bro, here's my theory, dude. And this is a little tinfoil hat. Dude, I honestly wonder if God did to Paul when he gave him that vision what will happen to the rest of us at the end of time. And that that's the reason it's one of the only other usages of the Greek word Harpazzo snatched up. And that's why Paul's like, let me tell you exactly what's going to happen to you someday. And remember, he said, this is something which no man may utter, what happened to me. It's a little like, I wonder, this is and I wonder. It's not a we know for sure. But I do. I wonder if the Lord was like, I'm going to do for you what I'm going to do for everybody someday. And then Paul in First Thessalonians is going, I'm going to tell you exactly what's going to happen to

you. Wow. Thoughts? What do you think? What do you think? I didn't know that. You're not going to hurt my feelings. You disagree with me.

No, I think it has some merit. I mean, again, like you said, it's theory. This is the stuff that we won't know until we go to heaven. But I think what gives some credence to it is that actually, again, like you said earlier, dispensational thought differs in this, but it's relatively new. Historically, the idea of the rapture was not that we're taking up to heaven and we're there for a long time and leave everybody on earth. It was the idea that we meet the Lord in the air.

So we are caught up. We meet the Lord in the air, but the idea of then we will meet the Lord, like that word that's used here is a word that was often used when they would go out of the city to meet an incoming delegation or the king and then return back to the city with the king. So what I'm saying is it actually does give a little bit of credence of the idea of Paul, according to your theory, would have gone up in some kind of way, but then came back. And so that does give it some credence there because that would be my view of this passage. is not that we are raptured and literally just disappear and then we come back years later, but that, yes, we're going to be rushed right up to God in the air and then come back down as he descends. And so, yeah, I actually think that has some credence to it. What do you think? Yeah, I don't see why it wouldn't, like those two are the same words.

And it's the only place in the Bible that they're used. And so that is interesting. I do, you know, obviously for another pod, we'll probably go in depth on the rapture for sure. But that's amazing. I will say if you're somebody who, so. Paul Cunningham was just talking about differing views of the rapture. Hey, is this where Christians will someday be taken away and remain out of the picture on Earth for at least a while? Or is this a meet the Lord and the air and come back? Which, by the way, Josh, would you say the majority view in the evangelical American space would it be, yes, on rapture theology?

I think the majority view in modern American evangelicalism. In the U.S. in the United States, is probably rapture straight to heaven. Left behind. And then I've honestly left behind, which is left behind is a preacher of rapture. Yeah, it's dispensationalism. Tim La. Yeah.

So preacher of rapture. I think that's the majority position in modern American evangelicalism. From what I understand, not the majority position in church history. I will say, if you want some really good reading, and I'm going to give a caveat. NT Wright has taken a couple directions recently that I think are like not good. So I'll just say that.

But there's one book that I'd be like, dude, fantastic. Surprise by Hope is fantastic. So if you want a good read on some of the stuff we're talking about, because he talks about the rapture thing in that book. It's phenomenal. And I would, again, he's taken a couple directions recently that I've been disappointed in. That book is fantastic.

It's a good example of when you stay in your lane. Yeah, that's right. You get a good son. Stay in your lane, bro. When you get out of your lane of what your specialty is, you can do some harm. By the way, there's probably a lot of people who listen to these podcasts, like, Howard and he needs to stay in. That's why? Received.

Received. That's hilarious. Hey, man, we have pastors. Darren and Tyler and Nolan Jaden joining us in a little bit. So I want to make sure we keep going here. Yeah. You got anything else from your sermon? So I'll just say a couple things.

So what we did this week, the anchor text, one of them was Hebrews 12. and let me just read these two verses. Okay, and it says, therefore, we're in this series called Run to Win, and we finished it. Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight

and sin which clings so closely and let us run with endurance, the race that is set before us, looking to Jesus, the founder and perfector of our faith, for the joy that was set before him, endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated,

this is interesting right here. and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. There's only just a couple things I'd say here. Actually, there's a couple things I'll say. And then Paul, I'm going to ask you what your theory is on who wrote the book of Hebrews. Okay. Come on. I would love to talk about that.

Yeah, so we're going to solve this today for 2,000 years. Christians have wondered who wrote Hebrews. Paul Cunningham's going to solve it today. Chad G. No pressure. Chad GBC. The epistle has got to solve it on this epistle. There's only one epistle-missil.

That's it. Man, just a couple things. First of all, this is a little weird, but this is not kind of thing you put in a sermon. It says laying aside every weight because it's referring to first century, the Ifsmen Games, which we have referenced before on this podcast,

happened in Corinth. A little weird, but true, they ran naked. All of the original, all of the original Greco-Roman Olympics athletes they're being true through the verse because that's my point like Paul's literally alluding to the and that's why they did it. They were like, I'm

trying to literally strip off any ounce that would make me run and I got questions that I'm not going to ask that would make me run in their minds faster we're not going there but that was there and so it was like dude I'm going to strip off

every so they did that the other thing that I'm going to point out is I think a lot of Christians have they've never thought about. I wonder what Jesus is. Stop it, Carlos, man. Stop it, man. I'm with you. I'm with you. I keep going. Carlos, Carlos. I thought it was pretty funny. I mean, that's the whole Janice. Janice joke. I don't know if your wives do this. It's like, there's a million things that I say that she's

like, you never left eighth grade. I'm like, you're right. No. I think inside of virtually every man, there's an inner eighth grader that never got crucified. That's right. I see. The other thing is it says right here, a lot of Christians, I don't think they know what Jesus is doing right now. And this passage alludes to it. And I'm going to show this real quick. So it says, endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God. All right. So this is a fun little thing that's actually really awesome.

So what is Jesus doing right now? First of all, fun fact. Jesus is actually in a human body right now. Jesus is embodied right now. He's not spiritual. Like you could physically touch Jesus. He is in a physical body right now. We know that from the New Testament,

glorified body. Number two, it says that he's seated right hand of the fodder. Now what we know he's doing, here's what he's doing. First John 2 tells us what Hebrews 12 is alluding to what Jesus is doing. So here's what says, 1 John 2 chapter 1, my little children. I am writing these things to you so that you may not say, this is one of my favorite passages in the entire Bible. But if anybody does sin,

we have an advocate, it says, with the Father. Jesus Christ, the righteous. He is the, and then it says, propitiation for our sins. Now here's why this passage is so stinking awesome. When 1st John 2 uses the word advocate, you can't see it in the English language.

In the Greek language, it was a very explicitly, judicial term. It was a courtroom term. So just like we have litigators and lawyers and we have defense attorneys and then we have prosecuting attorneys, the English word advocate is translated from the Greek word that means defense attorney. This is saying, it's saying that heaven is like a courtroom, which we mentioned in week one of this series, that hey, Jesus will return to, quote, unquote, judge the living and the dead. We will stand before the father for judgment. It's a courtroom. this says that Jesus every second of every day is before the father as a defense attorney for Christians.

And then it says he's a propitiation for our sins. Now here's what's really awesome. Right. So this is so cool. So just like, I want you to imagine that every single time you sin. The Bible says that Satan, the book of Revelation, calls him the quote unquote accuser of the brethren. when it uses the word accuser, it uses the Greek word for a prosecuting attorney. So Revelation says, heaven's like a courtroom.

Satan is a prosecuting attorney trying to condemn you. But then it says, so imagine every time you sin, Satan stands up before the father and essentially says, Yahweh, God Almighty, Paul Cunningham just sinned. And your very own written in eternal word, and your word says that heaven and earth cannot pass. away without your words passing away says that every sin deserves death and he says Paul Cunningham just sinned and sin deserves death and so I demand that you and your justice condemn Paul Cunningham. 1st John chapter 2 says what Jesus is doing is at that moment imagine in a courtroom Jesus stands up right next to you and he says

objection your honor now when a defense attorney is in a courtroom, a defense attorney never pleads for mercy. It would be really stupid for Paul to have committed a crime and then a defense attorney to go before the judge and say, would you please just forgive him? Would you please just let it slide this one time? No good judge would ever do that. What a defense attorney does is they present a case for acquittal. When 1. John 2 says he is the propitiation for our sins. The word propitiation is a big, fancy word that means a payment that satisfies. It's saying that Jesus when he died on the cross, his blood was a payment that satisfies the wrath of God for our sin. So imagine every time Paul Cunningham's sin, Satan stands up and demands his condemnation. Jesus stands up and says,

objection to your honor. Yes, your word says, yes, Paul Cunningham sin. And yes, every sin deserves death and he says but I already went to the cross for that sin and I shed my blood for that sin and your honor it would be unjust you would be an unjust judge if you punished the same sin twice and so your honor I do not ask for mercy for Paul Cunningham I demand justice for my blood you must forgive Paul Cunningham and every single time the father says acquitted acquitted So what is Jesus doing right now? Hebrews 12 says he's seated the right hand of the Father. 1 John 2 1 and 2 say he's there as your defense attorney. And so if you have ever wondered, I wonder how God feels about me when I sin.

Every second of every day, God is forgiving all those sins because Jesus is interceding on your behalf before the Father and your record is clean. Amen. That's what he's doing right now. on the cross, God did to Jesus what he should have done to me because of what I've done to him. That's the gospel. God did to Jesus what he should have done to me for what I did to him, but because of that, I can be reconciled with God the Father. I also love in Hebrews it talks about how Jesus is also interceding for me. And so that means that if you're a Christian, you have had your name spoken to the Father by the Son.

You have had your name spoken by Jesus to the Son. So he's advocating for you and he is interceding for you. You have had your name spoken before the father about the son. Just, bless my mind. Amen. That's good news. Now, all right. Paul, who wrote Hebrews?

Well, this is actually really simple. All right, so here's what I'm saying is for new Bible readers. It's the only book in the New Testament. We don't have a clear answer to the question who wrote it, which is interesting when you come to how the canon was constructed. We did a whole other pot on that, but that's a different thing. But there are prominent theories, Paul Cunningham. There are, although this is actually, the big reason why the book of Hebrews was so late in being added to the canon. It wasn't because of the theology they're teaching. That was solidest. Because the people put together the canon or recognized the canon,

it's probably a better way to say it. Really, it had to be tied to an apostle or someone closely affiliated with impossible because they didn't know who it was. All an amanuensis for our fun little. We couldn't, because of it, like, well, hey, we can't put it in because we're not sure who wrote it. So a few prominent theories arose of who wrote it. One prominent one would be the Apostle Paul. It's been out. It could have been Paul. Some of the theological elements that Paul speaks a lot are here.

Also, a lot of phrases that are in the book of Luke and the book of Acts are in here as well. And the reason why that would maybe point to Paul is that Luke was an associate of Paul. Another problem. Wait, before you go to it, before you go on. One of the reasons, so the reason, so I'll do a reason people don't think it was Paul, and then I'll do a reason people do think it was Paul. The reason people don't think it's Paul is when you do like a grammatical linguistic analysis of the words that are used. There's a huge number of words. You know, it's like, man, everybody has a standard vocabulary. Like Josh Howard, I've got a set of words. Like, you know, when somebody hears, let's kick this pig. I got you, bro. I got you. They're like, they're like, I'm. They're like, I. That's Howard and... That's not Carlos.

It ain't... Well, let us kick this people. So, like, they know, like, bro, that's Howard and. When somebody would read grace to you, grace and peace in the name of the Father and the Son. People are like, ah, that's Paul. All right. So there's a bunch of words in the book of Hebrews

that are not used in any of the other Paulian epistles. That's the reason people don't think it was Paul. Now, for our little Bible sleuths, one of the reasons people are like, yeah, but it still could be. is Paul was, as we all know, he was a Pharisee of Pharisees. What some people think is in the same way that if I'm writing a little note to my daughter, Eliana, I'm going to use a certain set of words and language.

But then if I was at seminary in higher education and I was writing a technical theological paper, I would use very different language. Some people think what the book of Hebrews is, is it's Paul's technical theological argument to Jews and in particular Pharisees that Jesus is the fulfillment of the Old Testament. And so, like, that's why the language is different. But that leads to the second prominent person, because the rhetoric is so high. Like, this person who wrote this, they knew their stuff in terms of rhetoric and language. Well, there's a guy that we see in the Book of Acts in the New Testament who was gifted at rhetoric

and who could speak powerful. By the way, that matters because a lot of people, many people believe that Hebrew. was originally a sermon that was then put into an epistle form. And that leaves many people believe it was Apollus. That's right. Apollus was a gifted preacher, really gifted at rhetoric. And so the thought is, well, hey, if he's really gifted at rhetoric, gifted at preaching. And he was familiar with Paul. He was an associate of Paul, that therefore a lot of Paul's theology and even some of Paul's phrases could end up in here, but stated in a more eloquent form. Likely a much, much better communicator than Paul. Yes, in terms of preaching.

Actually, we know that. Yeah. Paul actually said, I'm not impressive. Yeah, literally Paul's opponents in 2 Corinthians were like, his teaching amounts to nothing. He writes really well, but when he heard him speak, he's all right. And they said the exact opposite about Apollos. The New Testament uses the word eloquent and calls him mighty in the scriptures in Acts 18.

He could preach the house down. Yeah, like he was your passion conference speaker. Yes, he was. He was. Whereas Paul was more just a really gifted author or gifted writer kind of thing. By the way, I'll say this. Apollos is my theory. But keep going. You keep going. I want to know what your theory is.

Few other common ones. You got people like Barnabas is often thrown around. That's an interesting one. It is an interesting one. Clement and some other people like that. Here's why some people think Barnabas. Again, Hebrews super theologically technical for a first century Jew. And Barnabas, I think in Acts 4 is acknowledged he was a Levite,

which was, you know, this kind of like super, super Jewish, you know. So that's why some people knew is stuff. You have a few theories like that. I personally am an apollos guy myself. I'm an apollos guy. You skipped one of the more fringe theories. Which one I miss? Some people, who's the woman that some people?

Priscilla and Aquila? Yeah. Yeah, Priscilla. Is it Priscilla? Is it the one? Priscilla. Is that the one? Yes, Priscilla.

I've heard people say Priscilla and Aquila kind of co-wrote it together. I throw that one. So when I was in college, I had a little more progressive teacher. that was heavy on the Priscilla theory, Paul Cunningham, do you know why that's impossible? I found out, in studying for this sermon, there's a reason that's impossible.

I am so nervous to answer, so I will just say, you don't have to answer, you don't have to answer. I found out a reason that that's impossible. So it's actually right before the passage we just read. Let me open back up. So it's in Hebrews 11, and this kind of thing you can't see in English, I kind of hate talking about that all the time

because it makes people think, I can't understand my Bible, but you're fine. Yeah. So in Hebrews 1132, it's one of the only times he uses, the author uses a first person pronoun. Oh, yeah. Okay?

So Hebrews 1132, the author of Hebrew says, and what more shall I say? In ancient Coyne Greek, a first person pronoun is gendered. Yes. And when he says, I, in 1132, in Greek, Greek, it's a masculine, gendered pronoun, so we know it's got to be a dude.

Yeah. And it can't be Priscilla. And to go off what you said, just to encourage our listeners out there is that, listen, you can get so much out of the Bible without knowing that. That's right. It's helpful. No, it's almost like when you go to the beach, you go to the ocean. There's a few things that it takes some special training and equipment to do, like going deep sea diving. But you can swim, you can serve, you can snorkel, all kinds of good stuff. So don't let that ever stop you from going deeper into God's word whatsoever. But I'm an Apollos guy. For me, it really is just because it, I would.

of a person who says, I think this was originally a sermon that was then put into epistle form. I think that the rhetoric is so high. Paulus is just like, if you just put a gun to my head, maybe choose, that's the one I would choose. But I could be wrong. Either way, when people are listening to this, this in no way impacts the truthfulness of Hebrews, the power of Hebrews or as trustworthiness whatsoever. So what are you?

What are you? I think I'm an Apollos guy. I'm an Apollos guy. Have you ever thought about this? No, I have. Yeah. I felt like, you know, to think that it reads like a sermon, I think it makes so much cooler and the fact that it could have been Apollos at the end it's amazing.

Like when you read Hebrews 11 in the first part of 12, it's just like this was, it feels like someone could have stood on a stage and just started riffing it and going. And so yeah, it just, it has that flavor and it feel too. Well, you can even, so here's another one. Apollos. Apollos was at Ephesus, right? Hang on, I don't want to get this wrong. Hang on, let me, hang on, I'll get this.

Let me grok this. What? Yeah, yeah, he was. Yeah. Because you said it in our teaching for the seven churches. Yeah, I'm like 99%. That's what I was remembering. I got your book. I paid attention to this sermon. It's all right. It's okay. Me too. Yeah, yeah. So, Acts 18, 24 through 28. Apollos is at Ephesus. So like, honestly, dude, you can imagine Hebrews 12 when he's talking about, man, we got this great cloud of witnesses. There's a whole stadium of Christians, you know, from the ages looking at you. Like, you can imagine him being in Ephesus where there's a stinking humongous stadium seats 20,000. I actually think it seats like 25 or 30,000,

because I remember it's bigger than the AAC. So you can imagine, to your point, you can imagine Apollo's standing there in Ephesus reference looking at this stadium be like, there's a great cloud of witnesses while he's preaching. And I think it fits. I think it's Apollo's. That's amazing, man. Hey, I want to make this segment of the pod very practical after that sermon real quick, because we're running out of time over here. Man, unless we want to do the younger people in Scripture, do you want to feel good about that? I was going to go straight to the 335.

Here's some more to wisdom. It's so tempting. Here's all I'll say. We can save it for the next one, too. Man, here's all say. I just, you know, we hit this a little bit in the message. I'm going to do this real quick, and then I want you to say the ages

of some of the people in scriptures that would surprise people. I do not think people realize how young a lot of the leaders in the Bible are. We do not realize. So we'll get at that in a second. I hit this a little bit in the sermon. Virtually every major revival in American history,

and actually more than just American history, were led by, like, young adults. All right, so, like, all right, the first Great Awakening. By the way, this is really fun. There is no way that the United States could have been birthed as it was if the Great Awakening had not happened first. I'll just say that. So the most, here's this fun fact.

The most famous George W when our nation was founded was not George Washington. actually it wasn't even close it was George Whitfield I mean like not even close open air preached to thousands of people from what I understand hundreds of thousands yeah hundreds of thousands

what year was this this would have been first grade awakening early 1700s yeah Ben Franklin literally like knew of him and knew him and he actually walked and measured the distance of how far he could hear him and he said it was almost a mile I think is what he said it's crazy

did he say that yeah George Whitfield yeah George Whitfield there's a ton I read a biography on him years ago it was absolutely amazing So, all right, so first great awakening, George Whitfield was 25 years old when he starts preaching. Jonathan Edwards was 30, all right. Second Great Awakening, led by Charles Finney. Charles Finney was 29 years old.

The Haystack Revivals that started in Kentucky, shout out Kentucky, home state. Samuel Mills was the dude that started, kind of led that part of the, he was 23 years old. The businessman's revival in New York City was a little different. Jeremiah Landfier was 47, and that revival was primarily among middle age. like guys like me, middle-aged business dudes, Azusa Street Revival, birth of the charismatic Pentecostal movement, virtually all young people, like very, very young.

Then you get to the Jesus movement, Jesus Revolution, the whole thing is just wall-to-wall hippies and college students, Lonnie Frisbee, 20 years old, Greg Lorry, who's a pastor still today, leader in that spiritual awakening, 17 years old when that's happening. And then, and we alluded to this a little bit, I think you're seeing what might be, I'm not saying it is, what might be the first tremors of some kind of spiritual awakening right now. And some people would say it was the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

Charlie Kirk is 31 years old. So I just want to point this out like, hey man, young, like young. Can I throw one more into that? It's one of my favorites. He's not, not recognized enough. Evan Roberts. So he was in mid-20s, the Welsh revival. Not the mid-20s in terms of years.

It was actually 1904 and 1995. He was in his mid-20s. He was a co-minor, blue-collar, co-minor-turned-preacher. He prayed, God, give me 100,000 souls. Welsh revival breaks out in over a couple years. A hundred thousand people plus come to faith. Just craziness. Well, and I got it.

This made the sermon, so I won't tell the story again. But the story of Donald, the praying teenager in the revival in the Hebrides is one of my favorite stories. So if you didn't, you need to go listen to sermon. I'm not trying to tease, but you do. Like Donald the praying teenager is the reason there was a revival in the Hebrides Islands. So I'll just, there you go. Well, and in scripture as well, I mean, you see the same thing all over, right? I mean, the disciples of Jesus.

You got that stuff? Yeah. Yeah. So the disciples of Jesus, most scholars would say all but one or two were in their teens. And so a few ways that we know that the clearest thing from scripture is Matthew 17. there's what was called the temple tax. And so a person comes to, Peter says, why isn't your master pay the tax or is he going to pay the tax?

And then Peter goes and ask him, and Jesus, does this cool thing? Oh, just go catch a fish. And inside there's going to be a coin. And then he says, pay the tax for you and for me. The temple tax had to be paid by people who were 20 and up. And so the idea is, wait a second. If you read the greater context, all the other disciples are there.

So why would the only of the two of them have to pay? It's because they would have been the only ones that are 20 and up. Some people do wonder about Matthew. because he was a tax collector, maybe he was also there above 20 as well. But then the rest of them, really most scholars would have believed, because of that, would have been beneath the age of 20. Also, just because in common cultural practice at that time, Jewish young men studied the Torah formally until they were 15.

And at that time, the best of the best would get attached to a rabbi between the ages, usually at 15 and 20 before they started profession. So culturally as well, the idea of rabbis bringing on disciples, really between 15 and 20 was the norm. So again, most scholars just believe that the disciples were late teenager people. Which is why, by the way, Jesus frequent, I think, why Jesus frequently in the Gospels will refer to them or use the analogy of he'll just call them little children. Yeah. Like, seriously, I think we read our Bibles and we have these middle-aged dudes in our head.

No, no, I'm like, bro, these are like 16 and 17-year-olds. This is youth group. You think of John, who lived for a long time. He was alive into the late first century. Well, that makes sense if he was really young. John was the youngest disciple. He was the youngest ones, right. He was the youngest one.

Which is why he beat Peter in a foot race. That's actually one theory of why people that people have, why Peter. Is that Peter was a little older. For our little Bible nerds, if you go read, it's hilarious. It's like exactly what two dudes would do that were friends. At the end of the gospel of John. Yeah, two kids. At the end of the gospel of John, Jesus gets resurrected.

directed, John's writing the gospel of John, and he's like, me, and Peter started running, and then he goes, and I won. I'll get it there. And seriously, some people think it's because Peter may have been pushing 30, and John may have been 18s. And then they both have an eight-year-old inside that. I'm not sure yet. There you go.

Full circle. A couple other people real fast, and then we'll get to just some words for younger people, and then also is for people that are above a certain age as well. A few other people in the New Testament. Timothy, likely under the age of 30, the word used for, don't let people look at down you for your young neotase is a word commonly used for people under 30. Same word as these for Titus. So these were people that Paul was pouring himself into.

So they were more like in their 20s. Of course you have Mary, who is used greatly by God. And then even John Mark. John Mark was a young man in the Book of Mark was at first an associate of Paul. Not the most faithful of God. But again, that makes sense when you realize that he was probably a teen or early 20 something, but eventually matured and wrote the gospel of Mark. So a common thing throughout scripture that God uses the young for great purposes.

Amen. Let's do if you're under 35 quick words of wisdom. If you're over 35 quick words of wisdom, right to go. And then we're going to transition to the next segment. Mon-Donna, Pastor Darren, Tyler, and Nolan, Jadden, I'm about to join us. Man, let me just say a couple of things here. I think Satan's primary strategy with people. And when I say young, let's do this.

let's just put the line of demarcation under 30 over 30. So you're not young anymore, Carlos. I hate to break it to you. We're all middle-aged, too, is what we got here. Trust me, I feel more and more. Oh, okay, all right.

That's great. I know I'm behind you guys, but, you know. I think his primary strategy is to delay and distract you. And he's like, man, if I can delay you and distract you, I don't even got to destroy you. So, dude, there's this fire, J.C. Ryle quote. J. C. Ryle.

Presbyterian. I think he's Presbyterian. I can't remember if it's a minute. J.C. Ryle, he said, he said, he goes, Satan when you're young, it's too soon to serve God. Satan when you're old,

it's too late. Wow. And I think that's what God does. So what I would say is like, man, get a God glorifying vision for your life that is massive and attack it with a ferocity previously unknown to mankind. The greatest thing my dad did for me. Shout out, dad. My dad got me around

incredible pastors. He was taking me to conferences to promise keepers. I'm 16. My dad's pointing at Tony Evans, who back then was probably in his 30s. And I'm walking out of the stadium and my dad's going, my dad's going, Josh, you could do that someday. And he's planning like a huge God-glorifying vision for my life when I'm 16 years old and it worked like it just captured me and I was like man maybe I like he he spoke it into maybe I could and so you know then you know late late high school it was just I just wanted I was captured by that vision you know my youth pastor Jeff Carlisle I'm he's discipling me I'm reading Charles Spurgeon sermons at night just because I'm like man maybe someday God could use me.

You know, I'm memorizing chapters of the Bible with my friends and doing all this stuff. And it's like I had a God glorifying vision. And you all say this, here's another little fun Bible nugget that's like, if you just read it, like the first time I saw this in the scriptures, it blew my mind. So this is for everybody, but especially for like if you're younger. So there's this prophecy in Amos 5, I do not think people understand, where it says, thus says the Lord to the house of Israel. Do not seek Bethel.

Do not enter Gilgall. Do not go over to Beersheba. Seek the Lord and live. And you read it, you're like, oh, I wonder about Bethel, Gilgall, and Beersheba. Well, Bethel was where Jacob met and wrestled with God. Kind of a big deal. Gilgall was the exact place where Israel emerges from 40 years in the wilderness and takes possession of the promised land. Biersheba was where God delivered Abraham

by giving him this little treaty with Abimelech and what he's saying to Israel in this little thing is like, don't seek Bethel, Gilgall, Beersheba, seek the Lord and lit. What he's saying is Israel had gotten so focused on what God had done in the past that they stopped expecting God to use them to change the future. And dude, I'll just watch out.

Churches need to watch out because what churches can do is like, I talk about, man, it was amazing when Billy Graham was doing this thing. The Jesus Revolution, Protestant Reformation, look at what God did in China and that kind of thing. And I think a little bit of what God's saying there, he's going, well, you guys quit? Yeah.

Like, please stop talking about these moves of God in the past. And he's going, man, seek me right now and live. Stop talking about old stories. Go create some. And I think, dude, if you're a, if you're a younger person, awesome to read about these older stories of what God has done, but man, have some faith for what God could do. That's right. Yeah, a few things.

One piece of advice, actually, just from Paul to Timothy, to his younger apprentice, a young man, he said, watch your life in doctrine closely. And so when he said life, I think that's both your life with God, that a lot of younger people, and older people too, but definitely younger people want to do great things for God, but they don't actually have a great walk with God. So make sure your walk with God is amazing. But then also your life, just in terms of your holiness, you're never going to be perfect, but there is this idea of wanting to live above reproach. And we can have public passion, but public passion without private holiness will always end in burnout or demise, always. So just watch your life, but then also your doctrine is basically what you believe, because it'd be a real

big shame for you to be really, really, really passionate about a Jesus who doesn't really exist, except as a figment of your own imagination. So watch your doctrine in your life. I mean, really just attacking what you said is like attention is, I think, the new battlefield of discipleship and of calling, especially for younger generations. Whatever captures your attention will shape your affection. And then with that... Yeah, dude, hey, real quick. Yeah.

Be careful what heroes and voices you choose. A big time. That's what that is right there. Big time. You be real careful, bro. Yes. Whatever captures your attention will shape your affections. Now, I think what that too is,

at the end of the day, we are sharing this somebody before we hopped on, is I think most Christians, some, yes, but most Christians are not in danger of ruining their lives. They're in danger of wasting them. And I think if I was the enemy, I would get as many young people with as much potential in the world as possible. And I would just get them distracted. If I can't get them to ruin their lives, man, next best up is to give them to waste them. And then finally, I would say the greatest thing you have to offer God is your fully devoted and committed life.

Amen. Leaving nothing on the table. A few quotes, and then I'll give it over to Carlos. I just love these quotes. The evangelist Henry Varley to Diomudey once said, The world has yet to see what God can do with and for and through and in a man who is fully and wholly consecrated to him. And then I love this John Wesley Code. He's talking to preachers, but I think applies to all people.

Give me 100 preachers who fear nothing but sin and desire nothing but God. And I care not as straw whether they be clergy or layman, old or young. They alone will shake the gates of hell and set up the kingdom of heaven upon earth. Come on. Come on. I like it. Two things echoing what you guys said. Trina, can you pull up the first graphic?

This is from Dino Ambrosi. He's a speaker on, like, tech and culture. So that's a, this is an 18-year-old's remaining time and month. So basically, the dots in the screen represent an adult life in months, assuming you live up to 90. So if you're 18, the amount of dots you see there, that's basically like the amount of months you have left in life if you live up to 90. So about a third of your life, go to the next one. About a third of your life, you will spend it sleeping. So there goes like a third of your life, basically, if you're 18 right now.

And so then you have to account for total time you spend in school, work, driving, cooking, eating, chores, personal hygiene, et cetera. Like things you just have to do to live. So I see it. So okay, so there's what you're talking about. So then there's like all the necessities of life and then you see where it says free time.

Bro. There's a study according to this speaker that the 93%, hold on, this guy estimates that the average 18 year old right now is on pace to spend 93% of the remaining time looking at a screen and so that free time is that time where that's that's a space where you pursue what you're passionate about where you execute your vocation where you build something meaningful with your life where you spend time with family church community relationships that matter

this that space of free time is basically like where you create or or that will determine the kind of person you become and the vast majority of this generation will spend it with TikTok social media YouTube binge watching all the Netflix shows. And so to your point, Paul, like, distraction is probably one of the biggest threats for our new generation. And so if you are a Christian,

you must do everything you can to kill your distraction. That just simply cannot be you. Efficient chapter 5 says, be careful how you live, not as unwise, but as wise, making the most of every opportunity because the days are evil. That's literally the enemy trying to distract you from what God has for you. And then the last thing I'll say, man,

I think you're crazy, especially for like if you're younger under 30, I think you're absolutely crazy if you don't identify people that are 5, 10, 15 years older than you and just try to be like as much as close as you can to them. I think for me, I had by the grace of God, like, for whatever reason, I always had friends that were like literally like just five, six, 10 years older than me. And because, you know, I lost my friend because I was a Christian and I lost all my non-Christian friends at some point because we just didn't do the same things. And oftentimes we don't realize.

that discipleship is caught, not taught. Right? And so just being around people that are much wiser or much godlier than you, like at some point that is going to be forming you more than anything else. And so, man, just find those people. Find the people that are older, godlier

and don't think that you're, you know, this is the most obvious thing, but it has to be sad for a younger generation. Man, you're not better, you're not smarter than them. You're not smart. So if you have godly parents, listen to your parents. If you have godly leaders,

you know, your group leader, your pastors, listen to them, and, man, you will be blessed. Good. We want to talk to give words to the old folks like me. Pastor Josh. That's great. That's great. Man, I will say, so if somebody's young, I'll say this, and then let me put a bow on this thing, and we'll move on talking Mom Donnie and Jay Jones and everything.

especially for young men, if somebody was like, hey, dude, just give it to me straight. What do I need to be doing? Here's what I would say, and I would say pray as a leadership, Holy Spirit, follow your conscience if it deviates from any of this. But essentially, some of these are not deviatable. I would essentially go, hey, man, if you want to live in a life of extraordinary consequence, give your life to Jesus, read your Bible every day, pray every day, and act like it. Go to church. find a cute girl that loves Jesus and get married young.

Let me just side note real quick. The more I'm hanging out with young adults in our church, and they're like 26, 27, 28, and they're like, I'm not ready to get married yet. I'm like, what? Like, are you crazy? Like, you're like, you're like 10 years into historical, marriageable age in human history.

so I'm just gonna say like in general people right now are waiting way too late to get married like biologically like all the things find a cute girl that loves Jesus get married young have one more kid than you think you can afford I just like let me just have one more kid than you think you could afford and then work hard to build something great instead of complaining you do that stuff and like you're you're going to live a life of extraordinary consequence the only thing I would say to like the olds people like me apparently the apostle Paul said in 2 Timothy that was written to a young dude Paul was an older guy at this point he's writing to a younger dude and he says the things which you have heard from me in the presence

of many witnesses entrust these to faithful people who will be able to teach others others also. So basically what he's going on is, hey man, the most significant thing you do with your life, it may not be something you accomplish, it may be someone that you raise or develop. And once we cross a Rubicon in our lives, our job as disciples is to turn to somebody younger and go, I'm going to invest myself in that young man or that young woman and turn them into a force of nature. So that when long after I'm hugging Jesus, they're firing, flaming air. arrows into the darkness. And so, you know, one, if you're a dad or a mom with young kids, you already know who you need to be investing in. So, you know, one of the, you know, I don't,

I try to tell more stories where I'm the failure than I'm the hero. This is one where I got it right after getting it wrong. Two years ago, I was, you know, church starts growing, you get more speaking engagement requests, come do this conference. And I did it one year. And I was like, I, the kids felt it. And I sat down with them. Jan and I had a conversation. I sat down with them. And I just,

I did. I just was honest with him. And I was like, and I'll just pick a number. I was like, hey guys, when daddy goes and speak somewhere, you know,

right now, let's say it's $5,000. Yeah, hey, if I go speak somewhere, you know, I can make $5,000 in a night. And,

and I just told him, I was like, you know what I realize, guys, is that I would rather have one night with you guys than $5,000. Amen. And now, you, I mean, you guys know from hanging out, I just don't do it. You know, I'm speaking one place next year. I say no to everything because the most significant thing you do with your life may not be something you accomplish. It may be someone you raise or develop. And so I would just say, that's a reason why I should really.

straight. Me and Janer, when we decided to lead a root of group, I was like, give me young adults. I want a young adult root a group. So get in there and invest in it. By the end, you're going to have a blast. That's what I'd say. What do y'all got? I just got a quote off of that. And again, this is this is a guy who's talking about ministry, but I think this is applicable to all people. Charles Spurgeon, so, you know, greatest preacher of all times. So he was, he was a big deal. But here's actually what he said at one point. He said, train up a band of young men who shall preach the gospel when our tongues are silent in the grave. Right.

That goes hard. So, I mean, right. Of course, that was a person who said that. What I'm saying is, like, I mean, he was the greatest preacher ever. And yet he realized, hey, my time on earth is limited. And so one of the biggest things he had to do is to try to raise up a next generation. And that's true not just with preachers and ministry. That's just true with everybody, with all believers.

Like you said, one of the best things we could ever do is. just to raise up people in our wake. And so I think with that, if you're investing in the next generation, whether it's parents or really anybody, I'm just really big on, man, we need to make sure that we're not simply giving them rules to live by, but a calling worth living for. There you go.

By all means, we want our kids to obey God 100%. But too many times it become so focused on simply raising good boys and girls instead of great men and women of God. And you can have people that are squeaky clean adults, but they don't ever necessarily do anything with their lives because they're distracted or for whatever reason. And so just, I would say actually most of the time what I've seen is when young people, again, whether you're talking about kids, teens, 20 years, whatever, when they get a calling of God on their life that captures them,

the other falls in a place because they realize, like, if God has put this calling in my life and I have this vision from my life, oh, I don't need to wreck it. That's right. By then disobeying God and living unfaithfully. Whereas if you simply try to get them to live. For parents, that's huge. Yeah. I just want to like highlight that. For parents, when your kid, like, man, because that's what happened to me, it's like if you can get your kid, their young teen, whatever it is, if they can get captured by a vision for their life, their behavior will follow what it requires to accomplish the vision.

But it doesn't necessarily follow the other way around. You might get kids who are well behaved, but they don't necessarily have any kind of essence of calling your vision for their life. Whereas if you do the other, it usually follows around like a caboose. So that'd be the only other thing I'd say. Oh, that's really good. We run out of time. Let's talk. We have a pastor.

Let's bring on some pastors, talk mom, Donnie. What's going on in our nation? We just elected a Muslim communist, this jihad friendly in New York City, and a guy that talked about slaughtering his political opponents. What is going on? Coming up real soon. Stay tuned. Well, hey, before we jump back in, I want to take a quick moment to tell you about something

close to our heart here at Lake Point. It is something we call our annual missions offering. Every fall, we set aside a season of radical generosity where 100% of what's given goes straight to missions. And this goes to help plant churches in some of America's hardest-to-reach cities, strengthening local churches around the world, meeting needs in our own communities, and even sending students to camp to encounter Jesus. And so here's what you need to know. Your giving fuels real stories of life change. And so to be a part of spreading God's love farther and faster than ever, text the word give to 20411 or visit lake point.church slash give a mo

well hey live free family together let's make this a season where our generosity moves the mission of christ forward ladies and gentlemen welcome to the back half of the live free prod with my two new friends actually not new friends old friends i was going to say i got man Man, I got my elderly friend, Darren Tyler. He's got his cheaters right in front of him. That's right. If we get rowdy, he'll pick up his cane. Call down the she bears.

Yes. So I got Darren Tyler and then my buddy, Nolan, Jaden. Nolan planted a church in the West Valley of Phoenix like three days ago, and they're like 6,000 people. And I think they baptized like 40% of Phoenix yesterday. day and uh we're trying man it's there's not a lot of water out here but we're baptizing them that's right buddy that's right and then me and darren you can say how you're here in a second me and so both these guys uh darren both these guys are pastoring churches that are like absolutely

exploding darren me and darren used to pastor five minutes from each other yeah right right? Yep, in the Spring Hill, Franklin, Nashville area. And both these guys' churches are just absolutely exploding. They're good men. So we're going to talk the fact that America just elected a jihad-friendly Muslim communist to be the mayor of the largest city in the United States. And then we also, on the same night, we successfully elected a progressive guy in Virginia that advocate, I shouldn't probably say this while smiling, but that advocated for the political assassination of Republicans and their kids because, quote, people don't change until they feel pain. So guys, this will be fun. You want to say hi?

Dude, I'm just happy to be here, man. We used to bump into each other at Starbucks writing sermons. You've come a long way since then, Josh. You actually have your own office now. That's true. So legit when we were playing the church in Nashville, the Starbucks on that, I don't remember the name of that road. That was like, you know, literally my office. Nolan, do you have an office yet? This is it. You know, this is it.

Okay. Small space. Well, for real, for onlookers, you should really check out both these guys because both our churches are absolutely exploding. But we were doing the church plant thing. And so I would walk in and order a black coffee and sit at Starbucks for eight hours. because I ordered the black coffee because it was $1.86, and I would run into Darren. $1.86 is church planter coffee. The sad thing was is that your sermons were decidedly better than mine,

so I don't know if I needed to change my coffee order. Whatever, Darren. No, it's a true story. You think I'm blown sunlight up your dress, but that church went from, like, what, 100 people to, like, thousands, you know, and you were, what, 30 years old, something like that? It was really, it was fun to watch from up the road. I was really, really fun to watch. That was a special run mad.

Dude, I got there. We're gonna get right into this, but I got there when I was, I became a senior pastor when I was 25, which is a little surreal. Bro, it's 25. How, Nolan, how old are you? You were actually 25?

I was 35. I'm 36. Dang, okay. All right. But church planting ages you, so I feel like 40 something. Well, if I, if I, I could have experienced what's happening in Nolan's Church.

When I first started there at the bridge, I would have ridden off into the sunset and felt great. Okay, all right, you guys ready? Let's talk. So let me just, let's do it, man. So like, we're all in a group text together, so this would be fun. So let me just, here we go again.

America just elected on the same night this week, a jihad friendly Muslim communist. Dude was literally taking selfies with an actual jihad jihadi Muslim guy that was part of a world trade center bombing threat. It was on the cover of New York Magazine. And then on the same night elected a guy in Virginia. I'm going to read the text. Actually, Trinity, can you pull up those texts, the J. Jones text?

On the same night in Virginia elects this guy right here. You got it? Oh, man, there ain't no way I can read that. Hang on, Trinity. That's, okay, so let me read these. I'm going to need Darren's cheaters to read that. So this is like actual text messages from this guy. He's texting three bullets, two people, Gilbert,

and this is like the Republican political opponent that he was running against, Gilbert, Hitler, Paul Pot, Gilbert gets two bullets to the head. Spoiler, put Gilbert in the crew with two worst people you know, and he receives both bullets every time, bro. And then he goes on and talks about the guy's kids, talking about his shooting is the guy's kids. And then he finishes and essentially goes,

I'm not joking and says, yes, I've told you this before. Only when people feel pain personally, do they move on policy? And this dude gets elected. So before we go to where else, what y'all think? Thoughts?

Yeah, we're a long way out from needy. character to be a politician anymore. Not that you have perfect politicians even in the White House, but at the end of the day, you look at something like this, this could get you canceled overnight, and now we just elected him. Yeah. And it speaks to the ideology specifically in leftist circles that anything is kind of justified, as long as the means get what they believe to be successful. successful. So that I mean, I've seen those statistics you guys have seen them too, like the percentage of young people especially that are okay with violence if it, you know, gets whatever

policies they wanted put in place, which is brand new as far as I can tell. Some of this Islamist stuff is not new, but this, this whole thing about like being okay with violence, like they weren't trying to sweep it under the rug. They clearly, they couldn't. And then he still wins. Yeah, it was like, it was. go ahead no one i was going to say is the same thing the day after kirk died you had people justifying his death on the basis of him talking about gun control and being opposed to gun control you know jokes like hey thoughts and prayers you know thoughts and prayers you know thoughts and prayers for charlie kirk after he died and uh i think there's a move towards violence in the political left

because at its core it's marxist dude so i i totally agree with you can you connect those dots, Nolan. So like, just for, by the way, for listeners, Nolan's interesting because Nolan, you grew up in Portland, right? Yeah. All right. Yeah, so like, yeah, you go ahead. So what we're seeing in other places you saw like 10 years ago. 100%. So I grew up in Portland, Oregon. Like in my high school, and you got to remember, I went to high school 2004 to 2008 before it was as, as, before everything that was happening in Portland became a national reality and, across the globe. I remember being a freshman and having a teacher actually address the class

and say, you know, gender is actually a social construct. And so this is 2004. I had a friend a little older than me that actually encouraged me to explore my gender by wearing female clothes. Now, I didn't do it, okay? Because I'm... You can tell. I won't tell anybody. Way too much testosterone. It's a safe place here on Live Free. That's right. Didn't do it. But now we're looking at that being a national reality, this progressive ideology, which I believe at its core is Marxist ideology. Now, Karl Marx has been quoted again and again very famously saying that revolutionary terror is the means by which you overthrow the status quo, the beings by which you overthrow the bourgeois.

So at its core, it's a violent worldview. you. So, so like, let me, I'll connect some dots on this and then I love what you guys think. So like the thing that I'll try to get out as frequently as I can is it like that political violence is a feature, not a bug of secular progressivism. Because to no one's point, because it's built on top of a critical theory lens rather than a Christian theology lens. In a Christian theory lens, or in a critical theory lens, it views the entire world through a Marxist ideology, and it views the entire world through an oppressed and oppressor categories. Whereas Christianity views the world through the lens of a sin righteousness set of categories.

Well, you know, what that does is in Christian theology, if I look at somebody and they think differently than me, well, then I'm going to think that they're mistaken and I'm going to try to persuade them. That's like what Charlie Kirk did. In a critical theory lens, if you're viewing everything through an oppressed oppressor category, then that person that disagrees with you, they're not just mistaken. They're an evil oppressor. And when somebody is mistaken, it's like I can try to persuade you.

But when somebody is an evil oppressor, they feel a moral obligation to stop you. And obviously that, yeah, it like lends itself to like actual political violence. Agree, disagree, additional comments, sir. I mean, it's on display. I was listening to, uh, sorry, you go ahead, Darren, uh, age before beauty here. Yeah, a little janky connection on my side. So that's again, I'm an old guy with old internet apparently, but stop, man, it is literally, uh, I appreciate the way you phrase that, Josh, that it is a feature and not a bug in the system. And, uh, we can, we can connect it to Islam in a minute because it's literally the same theory that, um, you know, convert or die.

but from the leftist ideology, you know, if they, if you truly believe, right, that he was Hitler or whatever, like, then, of course you'd be the first guy with a gun in line. So they, but they have framed the entire thing, oppressed oppressor, in a way, which is obviously the complete opposite of Christianity, right? Which is about my sin is so bad that I needed a savior. That's right. That's right. Right. That's right. the Marxist ideology is my sin is their fault. And so if I take them out,

I'll be okay. Yeah, I was just listening to this dude, Corey Miller, who's the president of Rachio Christie. They do a lot of campus ministry. I guess familiar with him. Interesting guy, he was talking with Frank Turrick. And he rattled off all of these really interesting stats from a Yale study done about five years ago.

And he said 48% of, of students on campus support free speech codes. 81% say words are a form of violence. So today, students on college campuses, 81% of them say your words, simply if you disagree. That is a form of violence. 33% say physical violence is justified to prevent hate speech.

He goes on to say, then what is hate speech if you don't wanna face those consequences? He says 66% of these same students define hate speech as quote, anything that's, is found to be hurtful to any particular individual. Bro. So you want to talk about-

66% of students. That's a shocking number. This is what's coming up on the campuses. And so when you consider this whole idea of like the means, you know, the ends justify the means, the means today are violence because that is the only way to stop logic when your reasoning is illogical. And we're looking at students today that are enacting. This is why, you know, not to keep beating the Charlie Kirk drum over in

and over again. But this is why you have a young man shoot Charlie Kirk and his text messages that have been released say, you know, we couldn't tolerate his hate anymore. It was just, quote, too much hate. That is, that is case in point, a flawless example of the means of violence justifying the ends of overthrow. Jeez. Jeez. Okay. So let me, Can I come at it from a different angle? And then this one's a little incendiary. And then if you guys are like, that's too hot potato, I don't want to touch that.

I'll take it for you. Okay, so like Trinity, can you toss up? So dude, what's really interesting is like everybody's starting to notice there is a radically widening gender divide between how, like, how votes are falling. So like, I'm going to show you, like this is, I'm going to show you three things. So like, number one, go ahead and toss up the Jay Jones, the Virginia one. Let me see that.

Okay, I'm going to need to adjust my strategy here because that screen is too small for me. All right, so on this one, you got Jay Jones. So the highest percent voting for Jay Jones was women 18 to 29 voted for Jay Jones. Jay Jones, by the way, was the progressive guy that joked about, actually not joked, that advocated for killing his political opponent and his kids. So 76% of women 18 to 29. Jay Jones. Abigail Spanberger, so this was the, this was a different, the other person that was running. Also progressive, 81%. Women voted for her at an 81% clip. Now, Trinity, go to the, go to the Mom Donnie one. You got the same thing here. So women 18 to 29 voted for Mom Donnie at an 84% clip.

That's the whole story. Bro, that's it. 84% clip. And then this is the one, like it's awkward, especially when it's like three dudes talking. This is the one that's like really awkward. I'm going to toss up. I'm going to toss up what the electoral map would look like.

You're going to see two things. Don't toss it up yet, Trinity. You're going to see two things. You're going to see what the electoral map would look like if only men voted. And then you're going to see the electoral map what it would look like if only women voted. And I want to talk about why you think this.

is so toss that one up Trinity so what you got right there is obviously on the left that's what the electoral map would look like if only women voted and I can't say Trinity what how many electoral votes is that on that side 461 is okay so before 61 blue 4161 blue so on and then on the right hand you got if only dudes voted and what it is it no how many is it for red on the on the right one three 50 what 350, 350 what? 350, like right on the dot. You get to tell them, Darren.

All right. So, I'll, like, this is like every election, that, that gap seems to get wider and wider and wider. I got thoughts. Somebody want to take this first? I mean, I'll take the first shot out of it. Nolan, I'm curious because you live obviously in an area that would much more resemble maybe a purple area. than I do, but the biblical ideology, right, is that a husband and a wife, and I'm my wife's protector, I'm my wife's covering the family unit, and as the universities have begun to dismantle

that, and we've seen those statistics of how many females are just opting out of marriage altogether. And I wonder if this is all anecdotal and theoretical for me, but I wonder if it's because they now are, I don't use the word married, but married to the... the state. So if the state becomes their protector and not their husbands, then they would vote for that. And when you reverse it with the men, especially voting the other direction, if you're under 30 right now, you don't even remember a time where you weren't being blamed for being the entire problem of society of your young, white male. I'm at least old enough to remember before we were

blamed for that. So you've got men who've been just literally completely marginalized saying, okay, someone's finally speaking for me, voting for them. And then women saying, I don't want a man, I don't want a husband, and I'll let the state be my God and not God be my God. That's my theory. Curious what you think, Nolan. Yeah, I think you're exactly on the money, Darren. People are exchanging God for government, and government makes a terrible God. What we're looking at is a culture that has so vilified and, you know, removed the role of men from society that women are looking to the government for protection, provision.

These things that are natural and innate to women, a beautiful thing that God has. placed in them. And so now they're looking to government. And I think my big concern is twofold. One, when you make government your savior, you become a slave to that government. When you're talking about Mon Donnie, his entire thing is affordability. And so he ran on a campaign of I can provide for you. Now making the oldest trick in the book, making promises he will not be able to deliver on. But at the end of the day, that's the longing. And it's an Amago Day longing, right? Like it's something deep within, especially females, longs for that protection. And so now the government's stepping in.

It's, it's biblically speaking, always a rejection of God that results in an embrace of government. 1 Samuel 847. There's that classic between that, so you have the people of Israel looking to the other nation saying, they have a king. We want a king like them. The prophet Samuel rebukes them. And ultimately they say, now give us a king to justice. us and at the end of that passage, this beautiful line that says, God tells Samuel, hey, man, look, don't take it personally. They have not rejected you, but they have rejected me from being

king over you. And it's this story of Israel all throughout the Bible. And so for me, here's where my heart goes. I want to see, and this is what we are seeing all the time at the Garden Church, I want to see young men rise up into their God-given responsibility. And so rather than simply pointing at the government as the problem, like my heart is, I want to raise up young men. And so this is a huge theme for us. Like you were saying, we baptized 65 people Sunday, which is a huge, exciting, yay, God.

Let's go. But the story all day for us was watching young men, majority young men get up, get into those waters, declare allegiance to Jesus, be dipped in, and then turn around and baptize their wife, baptize their kids. And so this is what I get excited about, that in a world that criticizes and prevents masculinity, Jesus came as a carpenter

and overturned the darkness through 12 mostly blue-collar young men. That's right. That's great, dude. It's the gospel. Bro, that's fantastic. So I'll piggyback and take it a step further, and then you guys can step in and tell me where I'm wrong. So this is really interesting. First of all, it is, so first, let me just, a quick caveat.

We do not believe that, we believe that men and women, women are equally created in the image of God. We also believe that they're equally corrupted by sin. So we do not believe that men are more sinful than women, which is generally what, by the way, that that's generally what progressivism kind of like alludes or asserts. And we also do not believe that women are more sinful than men. And sometimes like people that are kind of lead conservative can kind of like, I don't know, almost, it can kind of give that vibe. So let me just say, we are not saying that. Like we're three dudes, we believe the Bible, equal dignity and equal depravity. I will say this. This is really interesting. George Orwell, do you guys, there's a George

Orwell in 1984 quote. Does anybody know where I'm going with this? I would expect Darren to know because of his wisdom. Because he was alive in 1984, Nolan? Yeah. I was there when it was written. Great. Okay. So, bro, this is George Orwell. First of all, I saw Nancy Piercy, who, by the way, everyone should be reading. She's complete, she's a monster in a good way. Yeah. Nancy Piercy tweeted this election data and all she did was put this Orwell quote at the top from 1984. In 1984 he wrote, it was always the women and above all the young ones who were the most bigoted adherence of the party, the swallowers of slogans, the amateur spies, and the nosers out of unorthodoxy. And Nancy Pearsie just like, she just dropped that bomb and walked away.

She just put that at the top of the election data. And that's all she did. So like, dude, she did. She posts. That's right. Post and ghost. So like, so here's, Let me go, I got a theory on this. You guys can, you know, you can take this any direction you want. So obviously, like our theology tells us that men and women are equals, but they are not equivalents. So what that means is, hey, the Lord created them with unique designs. They have, you get to Genesis 3 and they have unique curses of the fall, and then you get into the New Testament and they're given unique commands. Like, hey, I need to address women about this and then about this.

So equals but not equivalence. So like, what, like, here's where my theology is. is that what that means is that God has created men for their primary orientation to be towards things like the marketplace and historically when this arises, the need arises like marketplace and battle. Like that's literally what dudes were created to do. Go kill something, drag it home and take care of the family,

that kind of thing. The primary but not exclusive, that's a whole different discussion. The primary but not the exclusive orientation where God's created women is towards the home. That's primary but not exclusive. Now, like what we know, what I, I'll say what I, so I don't wanna speak for you guys, is that the design is reverse engineered from the function.

So like what that means is that God has created men to prioritize things like to be assertive, to care about truth, like, hey man, if I need to say a hard thing or do a hard thing, like God created us to be able to do that, you know? And then women in the home, it's like, man, it's raising, kids, you need high empathy. Okay. So like sometimes when people will watch the podcast,

they'll be like, man, Josh, what does Jana think when you'll talk about gender roles and that kind of thing? And my response is always, Jana's like 12% more based than me. If you could, you stick Jan on the podcast and women. So dude, I'll say, bro. So I got permission to share this. Janna like last year, and I'm driving somewhere with this. Jana like last year we were on a walk and the data overwhelmingly shows that Christian women, they struggle to like hold the line on their convictions on gender, marriage, and sexuality at a considerably disproportionate rate to Christian men. And I was asking Janne about this. And Jana was like, this was Jana's thing.

Jana's like, man, Josh, women struggle with that because women, they're, we are empathetic. We care about people. It's like we don't want to hurt somebody's feelings. And so what that can sometimes lead us to do is to sacrifice truth and convictions for the sake of, man, I need somebody to feel comfortable and affirmed around me. Well, it's like, man, honestly, I think that's like playing itself out a little bit in a little bit of the political divide, where it's like if you look at the values, think about the values

of the parties, it's almost like the, the Republican. party of conservatives is almost like that's dad. So it's like, hey, that's the party that generally cares about things like, you know, protection, strong military, be assertive, keep everybody safe, rule of law. And then Democratic Party is kind of man, in some ways, it's kind of like mom. It's kind of like, hey, man, I want you, hey, care about your feelings, want you to be okay. let's make sure you're provided for. Let's blow your running no, that kind of thing. And so like, dude, if you take it all the way down into some of those,

by the way, when I'm done here, I'm going to ask agree, disagree, additional comments, and you guys can take it wherever you want. But when you start looking at like the voting divide, I think you're starting to see like, hey, man, the ladies are going with the mom party and the dudes in general are going with the dad party. and then it gets you down

into like what Ali Best Ducky calls the toxic empathy thing. Yeah, where it's like, hey man, empathy towards the guilty is cruelty to the innocent. And we can tease all that out. But I think that's at least part of it. And then I'll do one more thing

just to throw one more grenade and walk away and let you guys deal with whatever you want to take this. Is, dude, Darren, I think you're on to maybe more than you may realize. So like, so you have more single women with no husbands and no children than any other time, maybe in human history? I actually think that might be possible. Was like you can't turn off the part of you this hardwired to like maternal instincts and to look towards a husband. And so like, and I'm not the first got to point this out is like,

in the absence of that it's like man I'm gonna look for the the government to be husband you protect me you provide for me and then honestly man sometimes those maternal instincts they'll get aimed at what feel like um like a quote unquote oppressed uh or struggling classes of people and they're like ah let's vote for what would care for kind of like you would aim at your kids that were struggling and uh and so there you go now I'd love to know. Agree, disagree, additional comments. You guys got thoughts? I think that's an astute observation

as far as Democrat versus Republican, feminine, and masculine. I'd actually never contemplated that, so I think you're onto something there as well. I guess the only thing I would add is that in the universities, well, I say universities, the high schools, you know, TikTok, young men have been the enemy for so long

that when we talk about women that are not being married, for, you know, at a record at alarming rates. They're not doing it because they can't get married. They do it because they don't want to be married. There's just, it's sort of like in the zeitgeist of the culture right now that young men, young white men specifically are the problem. So when you've got one party saying, yeah, you're right, we want to, we'll elect a woman

no matter what, whether she's qualified or not, we're going to, the woman's going to be the one. So they're seeing that as though they're going to, they are, they agree with me that these men the oppressors and they're going to vote for that. And if you're, you know, like I've got a 19 year old son that, you know, he grew up in, in a high school that was, you know, teaching that stuff. And for someone to finally tell him, hey, you're actually not, you know, any worse than a female, like, you know, we're all broken and we're all sinful that you're not like the problem like that he needed to hear that from culture from me. And so I think some of that's probably, it's probably like anything there's probably like 14 different things all sort of coalescing yeah that's right totally

but but those are pretty big uh pretty and the gap is widening as you pointed out like it's not this gap is here and it seems like every election is getting wider and wider and maybe it's because the culture is getting further and further into that no one yeah i think um you know all the qualifiers for me too like i'm married to an alpha female right like in some ways in our church plant right like she's the boss, you know what I'm saying? So there's, um, I obviously partly teasing, but she has, uh, higher IQ than me. She's strong. And, uh, I, I would say that, um, my wife would 100% um, agree with, you know, yours in that, uh, God has designed men to lead and, uh, that she longs to see men rise up and do what God has called us to do. And it's not only that

men have been victimized by being villainized in our culture, it's also they have not been challenged. Um, and so, So it's the tale is old at times theologically. We're in the, we're in a Genesis three world right now, right? And in Genesis three, it's not, despite having a desire to see young men lead, um, I look around and I see a fallen Adam world where it's not, I'm trying not to place all of the blame on the culture or on women because one of the things we're tapping into right now.

When I referenced Genesis three, obviously there I'm talking about Satan goes to Eve on purpose. He is going to play into her empathy in a way that will fall humanity itself. And Adam is not a victim. He's standing there the entire time, not balling up, not stepping up. And what he should have done is throat punch the serpent. What I would say is that there is a humongous importance for men right now to take some of that ownership and to step into the space of leadership. And again, all the caveats involved, I believe in female leadership. I believe in strong ladies, you know, playing their role in society, playing their role in the home.

But we need to see more men rise up and lead. And actually, the stories that we find at our church, I actually met with a guy yesterday. And get this, this actually kind of tells you who we're reaching. There were two dudes that kind of got into it in the parking lot at the Garden Church, right? Like just rough guys. There was a parking incident. And so I'm literally meeting with this guy because he's like, some other dude tried to fight me in the parking lot. at the garden. And I was like, tight, let's solve that. You know, like, we're trying not to have

that happen, but also glad he's here, I guess. And so we're sitting there at like a Starbucks. And I was like, man, what is your story? And he starts getting into about a year ago. He moved here from California longing to establish his home. Couldn't afford a home in California. That's like, I don't know, 80% of our church. People who moved from Sokow. And his dad had beat the snot out of his mom. And at the same time was a pastor preaching on Sundays. So he was like, as you can imagine, church was the last thing on my radar. I wanted nothing to do with it.

My wife saw an ad on Instagram, came to your church plant and kept inviting me. And I'm like, dude, I'd rather watch the game. I don't want anything to do with this. And he goes, but then I saw the change that was taking place in my kids. And the dude starts bawling. There you go. He goes, man, like, my life. life has utterly changed, checked out the garden, started plugging in, started reading the Bible.

He's like, dude, we, we have turned to 180. We kicked booze. We kicked temptation. And I was like, how's your marriage now with all this? He goes, I fell back in love with my wife. Amen. Can I tell you, his wife is a happy woman because he has stepped into leadership in his home. Yeah, that's right.

There is a, there is a longing in the female heart to see men step up and lead. Amen. Amen, dude. Yeah. All right. Well, we're going to be figuring out that, like, that little gender divide thing. That's going to be a thing for a minute. So we're, you know, we're going to keep our eyes on that.

So let me go ahead and do this. The other thing that, like, has been interesting to watch in the response to the Mom Dani election has been, like, the role of Islam there. So, like, bro, this is, honestly, it's a little, it's a little insane. So Trinney, can you toss up that video from Times Square? So I don't know if you guys saw this. This is last night right after, either last night or two nights ago, right after the elections. Can you toss that up, Trinning?

I was texting one of our mutual pastor buddies that's in New York City. They are very much feeling this right here. Okay, yeah. Okay. Hiding, we're done. We're done being tortured and hurt and judged. This is the correct religion. So this is thousands of Muslims in Times Square. All of humanity needs to be a part of Islam, and we will not stop until it enters every home.

So I want you to repeat after me. I want to hear it in every single district. It should tremble. Brooklyn should hear it. The Bronx should hear it. Queen should hear it. Say it as if the homoer depends on this, my brothers and sisters. There is no God worthy of worship except Allah.

the God of Jesus, the God of Moses, the God of Abraham, and the God of the last and final prophet, Mohammed. Salamahua al-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a. That, my friends, is where 9-11 happened 24 years ago. When you see that, I'm interested, especially Darren, because Darren's spent time in like every country in the whole world. I'm curious, when you see that, what do you think? It's, I'm not even sure sobering is the right word, because we've seen this, the nations I work in, I can't say most of them.

That's, this is literally the undercurrent of much of the Middle East. And I don't remember who said it once, but like when your enemy tells you what they want to do, you should probably listen to them. Yeah, probably. And the thing about Islamists, especially, you know, and I say radical Islam, I do want to, I guess I want to, I guess I want to, say because we do a lot of work in that world. You know, not all Muslims are violent, right? So Muslims are not necessarily the problem, but Islam is the problem because it is not a religion of peace. It's a religion of conquering. And that's their edict, right? They have been told, you know, we can, so for us, we can hasten the return of Christ by love, right? By gospel in every

nation, tribe and tongue, they can hasten the return. And this is specifically in Shia, Islam. I have, guy's probably Sunni, but in the Shia version, which would be Iran, Syria, you know, Hezbollah, you know, they believe they can hasten the return of the Mahdi with bloodshed and with violence. Wait, and can you explain, so I'm going to, I've been starting to read about this. Can you explain what the Mahdi is real quick, Darren? I'm sorry, explain what? Can you explain what the Mahdi is real quick? Oh, golly, yeah.

I just started reading about this. Yeah, so in Shia Islam, so they had a split. like a church split right after like Muhammad dies and trying to figure who's taken over. And so one jet stream becomes Sunni Islam, which 90% of the world would be Sunni. And then the other direction was Shia. So Iran, and basically the Madi is their version of a Messiah that's going to return. You might have heard the phrase the 12th Imam. Some of us remember the president of Iran's in the UN, and I think 2017, you know,

opens his statement with, we want to hasten the wrong. return of the Mahdi. Like it's a theopolitical thing to them, not geopolitical, it is theological for them. And so their idea, like they're going to usher in this new age of, of a great world where Allah is in control. You know, Muhammad will be there. Jesus is going to be like his personal assistant in their version of this. But they genuinely believe it to the point where, again, violence becomes, in fact, you can find many of these coming out of imams from Gaza that, you know, killing the infidel is the highest form of worship for them. And again, not every Muslim believes that. So if you've got a Muslim next door, you know, you don't have to be

scared of them. Because I would say one of the things we're, what we're doing as a church is saying that, look, the government should absolutely be protecting us. That is the government's job. I have no problem with them protecting us. But you cannot bomb an ideology out of somebody. You can, however, gospel it out. And so while the government's doing their job, the church has got, we've got to step up our game. And I say that saying that I spent all my time in these other nations and realizing, you know, the United States actually is a nation. You know, Jesus didn't say going to all the nations from Washington. He said it in Jerusalem. And so in our own nation, as churches, this is a Like I've seen it in Africa.

It just, the Islamic tide rolling from north into all the way down to Mozambique, it's a cancer. And, you know, whether it's Dearborn, Michigan, Plano, Texas, Minneapolis, Minnesota, and now New York, this is a real thing on our shores. And so as a church, we've got to be very purposeful in training, equipping, number one, our own people from falling into Islam. that's coming, but also how do we win and love our Muslim neighbors, tell them the truth, but lead them to Jesus because that's the ultimate. I mean, there's, you guys have heard the stories. I've actually met people.

They've had the dream of the man in white, you know, Jesus is rescued. We got those people in our church, yes. Yeah. I first encountered it 12 years ago. I'm like, whoa, tell me about this man. It was a guy in North Africa and it's proliferated. So Jesus is coming for the Muslims in all the best ways. And we could be a part of that and at the same time be very politically savvy to know that.

Whether it's in elections, local, state, city, we can't look the other way. Even if you're not quote unquote radical Islamist, you are now, we talk about this right, like if we, the Christians don't step into political offices, then the godless will. That's right. Also includes Islamists. Yeah. Darren, were you there? Were we at the White House at the same time?

We were, weren't we? Okay, so dude, I think you just alluded to this. But like, one of the most striking things that visit was that guy, the counterterrorism guy, that you remember this guy? Yeah. Oh, 100%. Christian dude oversees counterterrorism for the United States. And he walks up and he's, he's a, he's a,

deeply Christian man and looks out at this room of pastors. And he essentially says, you guys are more effective at neutralizing terrorism in the world than anything that we can do. And he said exactly what Darren said. He's like, hey, man, we can't bomb this thing out of existence. But he said every time, he said every time this is an Islamic terrorist converts to Christianity, you just neutralized a threat. It was like, bro.

Yeah. I don't know if you remember this, but I got kind of. schooled there because I was I had one question and it really was it was hey if I get myself into a pickle which I have many times is there anything we anybody I could call is like a hotline to get me out of here and I tried I wasn't quite as glib about it but yeah but he looked in and look he schooled me with a you know we really don't have that and then he started talking about the the persecuted church inside of these countries and how they're dying for it and

Basically saying, you know, you suck it up, Buttercup. Like, this is part of the commission, right? So it kind of hurt my feelings because I was definitely looking for the hotline. But to hear somebody in our White House in charge specifically of counterterrorism, understanding that this is a theological issue, not a political one, that gave me great comfort. Yeah. Nolan?

Thoughts? Yeah, I think it's fascinating. So that guy, if I'm recognizing him, he's actually huge. on YouTube and he's got a really famous video out there. Yeah, he's a big YouTuber. I think it's him. But either way, there's this huge YouTube video that came out. I think during COVID where, you know, he's a Muslim dude. He's an evangelist for Islam and he's going up to people at grocery stores and begging for food. And the whole point is if somebody gives him food, even though he's a Muslim is kind of the point, he'll pay for their entire grocery bill. And he's trying to make

the point that Muslims are not treated with fairness, care, love, respect in America. And he does that in New York. And so what I find fascinating about that video is it's almost like the mask comes off. He starts with, hey, we're victims. Hey, we're being done down. We're being mistreated. Whatever it was he said. And then he moves to, no, this is the right religion.

And he starts into the triumphalism. And really, that is often what I see. that it begins with an appeal for empathy, but it's a Trojan horse for power. Over and again, specifically with Islam. So, all right, to this point, so Trinney, I'm going to pull up that three phases of Muslim immigration thing.

So there's a guy, he's a great follow-on X. It's Dan something. I'll see if I can find it. He's a former Muslim guy converted to Christ, and now, like, basically his whole feed is, like, helping people understand Islam strategy and kind of what it does. Okay, so dude, he pulled this up, go ahead and toss that up, Trinity.

He pulled this up and he was like, hey man, Americans need to understand. There are three phases. So here's his big idea. He was like, hey, man, 1400 years ago, there were literally no Muslim countries. So his point is like, hey, man, you guys think that it's just like, oh, man, there's, hey, we have, you know, a couple million, not a big deal, that kind of thing. It's like, hey, so like, we actually have history books that tell us exactly how this is going to happen. And his point is, it happens in three phases.

He goes, phase one, when Muslims are few in number, he's like, man, what they historically do is sort of play kind of the card of oppressed Islam. And it's to what you're pointing on. He's like, man, that's the play the victim, claim Islamophobia, more tolerant of others. Then he's like, hey, man, but then phase two is when there's a large majority. It's like, man, that's the indignant Islam phase. it becomes threatening, it's triumphalism, start to kind of at least move towards things like Sharia law.

And again, there's different parts of, you know, Islam and how they handle that differently. More intolerant. And then phase three is when they get to clear majority. He's like, read it. His point is, read a history book. These three phases happen every single time. And phase three is clear majority.

This is dominant Islam. This one becomes militant, strict Sharia law, killer subdue infidels, et cetera, et cetera. And his thing is, 1400 years, the pattern hasn't changed. Thoughts. So I've never seen that before that one of the primary, oh sorry, Darren, go ahead, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah. I've never seen that that clearly before, but I have actually seen that in practice in some of the nations that we're working in that are sort of flipping toward Islam. And it does, it just fits the whole thing.

In fact, most Muslims inside the Middle East are, they still kind of view that that we're the oppressed, and that's why Israel is the enemy and Satan, the big Satan, which is us is the enemy, because we're a, we are the reason that they are not successful is what they would say. Notwithstanding the billions and trillions of dollars we spend in gas and oil with them, you know, like somehow we're still the fault of that. So they, the framing of them as a victim, and I hesitate to use the word them because surely someone's going to tweet. So go ahead and tweet Josh about this. He gets plenty of tweets. But as a whole Islam, that is the tone, whether you're in UAE, whether you're in Lebanon like that. We are oppressed by these people, these evil, wicked little Satan and big Satan people.

And so that becomes the play. And by the way, that's why they are very successful in oppressed areas, like Africa. They go after the oppressed verse. They don't start like in the city center. They're starting in villages with them and then moving towards the cities. They don't start in the cities and move towards the villages when you see their evangelism with it. So that's what's happening in pockets in our country.

And I know that, I don't 25 years ago, whatever, it was just we couldn't say anything like this because this Islamophobia. But the facts are the facts. and the Quran is clear. My friend in North Africa, who came to Christ about 25 years ago, he leads 250 underground house churches. He told me that the only way out of Islam is deeper into Islam. And what he meant was, most Muslims are kind of like most Christians.

They just sort of kind of know the basics. I don't know the real things, but he said, the deeper I got into Islam, I got to the bottom of it, and I realized I'm either going to be a terrorist or this is a wrong religion. Wow. came to Christ, we call him Cleo, we can't say his name, but that guys, to this day, it could literally could lose everything if he's found out. The house churches there have to meet like only eight people at a time in an apartment.

To your point, Darren, so like I just, that same guy that I follow on X, he, again, essentially what you just said was his exact story, was like, dude, he gets in, starts realizing like, man, what are the actual commands? And he tweeted this the other day, like just a list of commands. And that's all it was. I won't even read them all. But like, Quran 2-191,

slay the unbelievers wherever you find them. Quran 328, Muslims must not take infidels as friends. Quran 3.85. Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable, obviously. Quran 533, Mayaman crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam. Quran 812. of terrorize and behead those who believe in the scriptures other than the Quran.

Quran 860, Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels. Quran 865. The unbelievers are stupid, urge Muslims to fight them. Quran 9.5. When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch them. Quran 930. The Jews and the Christians are perverts. Destroy them.

Quran 9-123 and make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood. So to your point, it was like that's exactly what happened. The farther he got in, it was like, bro, this is, he just kind of came face to face with it. Nolan, any thoughts there? Just for quick, just it highlights the irony that one of the primary voting blocks of Mamdani was, you know, white educated women. Dude. So yet Sharia law, not that he is a proponent of that, lived out, oppresses women. So I do find also there's this interesting correlation or similarity between the strategy of the far left and the strategy of Islam.

So I find that fascinating that it's that it's often this Trojan horse of victimhood that results in power, whether that's big government, you know, a reversal of morality or Sharia law, the caliphate. And then lastly, I also just find this fascinating that when you when you look at, excuse me, when you look at any of this stuff, you find yourself going, what country are we in? And it was just 2008 that Obama got elected having to pretend to be a Christian and also at least come across like he was against gay marriage. Today the mayor of New York, the central nervous system of the American economy is openly Islamic, openly communist. So just kind of a fascinating world we're in. Wild time to be alive.

I wanted to say one thing just to save you on some emails that you might I get, which inevitably when you start talking this way, someone's going to go down the road of, well, Christians have done all the same things, you know, the crusades, the inquisitions. That is, that's like actually not true, but go ahead, Darren. Yeah, it's not true. But one of the main reasons is what is important to note there is that anybody that has done anything like that in the name of Christ cannot use the words of Jesus to justify their actions. They are in open rebellion to Christ and sin.

anybody who does not do that who is a Muslim cannot justify their actions because they are in rebellion against Allah and Mohammed who does command them to. So that's a complete false equivalency just based on the text that they would revere as holy in the text that we revere as holy. Dude, that's, that's, Tom Holland points that out, the guy that wrote Dominion. I think he's the guy that pointed that out first where I heard it, where he was like, hey man, when a Christian, and he's not a Christian yet. He pointed out that when a Christians have historically, quote, unquote, taken up the sword, they're doing it in rebellion against the words of Jesus.

When Muslims historically have taken up the sword, they're doing it in obedience to the words of Allah in the Quran. Just erratically, there's not a moral equivalence. Yeah. Okay, let's do one last thing that is, again, it is, that's a little awkward. And if you guys are like, I'm not touching that, then that's fine. and you can just kick it back to me and we'll figure it out. So honestly, it's to Nolan's point.

The other thing that I think people are trying to figure out is honestly, just immigration in general, huge discussion right now. I don't think Christians have any idea how to think. Christians historically are very different than Muslims in that we have not historically done very well at articulating a clear political theology. That's not historically a strength. of Christians, especially Protestant evangelicals.

Trinity, do you have that, the, grab the chart, yeah, the how long have you been in New York City chart? So this is, and this is what a lot of people are like, dude, I don't know what to do with this. So this is who voted for Mom Donnie. And somebody tweeted, man, the people of New York City, this is I tweeted, the people of New York city, this is I tweeted. The people of New York City just elected a Muslim communist. And then the response was, well, actually the people of New York City didn't. And they pointed to this data because people who have been in New York City less than five years voted for Mamdani at an 83%

clip. People who were born in New York City voted for him at a 34% clip. Now, I don't have this one right in front of me. I should have this one right in front of me. The other thing was, is they contrast it. Dude, I know it's awkward, but it's like, again, it's like, hey man, we're data people. Was that foreign-born New Yorkers voted for them at like a 70% plus clip. And then people who were born in the United States, I think it was more like a 30 to 40% clip. So you guys got thoughts there. I mean, that's a thing I think Christians are going to have to figure out.

out how do we think about that kind of thing you want to go first no one you live in phoenix no one's like let let the old guy go first darren yeah yeah i mean is what i would take it darren you all you what i would say the the idea of christians uh god in general jehovah yahway about this heart for immigrants is on full display in in scripture Right. That's right. But if you go to the to the Old Testament and you start looking at those commands, there's like six or seven of them. And by the way, three of them seem like they fit really good with the Republican Party and three of them kind of fit really well with the Democratic Party. Because it does say, hey, welcome, you know, love. But it also says, and these are different commands that are worth reading. It was conditional entry. If you're going to welcome an immigrant in it, it depended on moral and spiritual alignment.

to Deeroneomy 23, three. You're talking about essentially the immigration, the immigration principles of the Old Testament. This is what you're referring to. Yeah, keep going. I just wanted listeners to know what you were talking about. Keep going. Yeah.

Yeah, sorry if I wouldn't clear on that, because that's what, especially from Christians right now, that's one of the debates. There's churches in Nashville right now that would, they're just really angry at all the immigration policies happening right now because they read the welcome the immigrant and love the immigrant. That's right. And then they skip over the, they have to obey the laws. Deuteronomy 23, right? Moral alignment.

You had to leave your foreign gods behind. You know, that's 100% what God was saying. That's Deuteronomy 7, 3, and 4. Live under Israel's law. Numbers 15, 15, and 16. Their borders were not open. Their borders were protected and they were closed for purity. And they had to decide who went in and who got to stay in and who had to leave.

based on whether or not they would adapt to Israeli as to Jewish customs laws in religion, as opposed to coming in and saying we could have a false god here and a false god there. And in America, you know, we've said over the years that pluralism is our strength. And I guess the more I think it's just nonsense. Like we need to be unified around something. And what we're seeing in the UK was is the fall, the disaster of pluralism. and, you know, I think as a nation right now, we're in a place right now where we don't have a unifying set of the truth that we go around. And so there's this war because you're true and my true

with it. So, you know, reverse engineering it back, what we're seeing even with that guy in New York, you know, he's, he is literally an immigrant in our country who is now, you know, blasting our nation, demanding that we're going to all do this. He's everything in those commands of Moses, of God to, Israel that is kind of, I don't know if it's thrown in my face, I don't know if it's thrown in your face, which is ironic since we give away millions of dollars to helping people in other nations, you know, I don't, you know, I don't know why they would throw that on me, but they do here in Nashville. And, but they skip over the rest of that part. Like it's, we have to have both of those for successful immigration for our nation to survive. And I was talking to Stephen Mansfield,

I don't know who that is, but really well versed in this. And he's saying, look, what's happening in Europe. If you get plans for Europe in your bucket list, you better do that in the next 10 years. Because Europe is mid fall right now. Yeah. In Islam, UK is midfall.

And there doesn't seem to be a way back from it. And so we as Christians in America, not about Islamist phobia. It's about unity. It's about protecting our family, our wives, our children, our way of life. And again, you've said it Josh so many times, like

if the god Lee will not step into these political arenas, the godless will. That's right. And the only thing I would add to that is false God's will as well. Bro, okay, so let me toss two things up. Trinity, I'm going to toss two things up right here, and then no, I'm going to come to you. So first of all, I went ahead and grabbed,

toss up the contrast between American-born and foreign-born, the polls for Mom Donnie real quick, because I referenced it. So this was like shortly before the election. So you've got it right there among American-born New Yorkers, it was Mom Dani only had support at 31%. Among foreign-born New Yorkers, it was 62%. So, dude, it's really awkward,

but like, well, people were pointing out, it's like, hey, man, like, in one sense, like what they were saying was demographics is destiny, was the way they were saying it. The other thing that I'll point out to what Darren just said, and it's like, this is the thing that Christians, I think Christians are just now trying to figure out how are we supposed to think about this

because we are the love the immigrant people. If you know anything about Lake Point, that's like our thing. The other thing people are pointing out is like, do you have that thing, Trinity, of the most popular names of children born in European cities? So check this out. This is to Darren's point. So you run down the list. Obviously, in Warsaw, you got John.

So, okay, there you go. London, Muhammad, Manchester, Muhammad, Berlin, Muhammad, Brussels, Muhammad, Amsterdam, Muhammad, the Hogg, Muhammad, Oslo, Muhammad. the most common baby names in the cities. And people are just pointing out like, hey man, like, essentially Europe has fallen. It's kind of the vibe. Yeah, it is. The foundation is gone.

And now it's just a matter of time. We actually had some kids in Italy just doing a little trip. They ended up having to leave early. This is just like last month because the Palestinian protests were breaking out in the streets. They were literally just all over Italy, Rome, blocking train stations, hundreds of thousands of Muslims across Germany, France, Italy, UK. And the one thing that they're doing right now, long game strategy, is out-immigrating us and out-breeding us. They're going to outvote us. Inside of Israel, I know that most people don't know this, but there are two.

million Arabs that live inside of Israel. Like that's, you know, they're apparently really terrible a genocide. But that's a battle that they're facing is how do we, you know, keep our values with it. And by the way, many of those Arabs I know personally, and they want to be in Israel. They don't want to be anywhere else. But what's happening inside of UK right now is they're out-cultured, they're being out-numbered and out-voted is what is what's next. And they did the same thing, by the way. The Syrian war, we want to welcome the immigrants. I totally get it.

I totally understand. I've stood on the northern shore of Morocco with immigrants, like trying, just literally trying to get. They're desperate. So there was a good heart behind it, but the execution of it with a wide open door coming right alongside of, generally people that probably needed the help were the terrorists themselves sneaking in and their family sneaking in and then radicalizing them again if you're an oppressed versus oppressor religion which is Islam and you get into UK and now I can't find a job because for whatever reason in their mind the reason is this because I'm Muslim and I'm being persecuted so even in that if they didn't come radicalized they can get radicalized real quick by just spending a bunch of time on TikTok wow all right but but Noel

I'm going to ask you, but Nolan, we can't, you can't oppose these things because Christians are supposed to love the sojourner and the immigrant. Pastor Nolan. What, what do you know, response? We do love the sojourner. We do love the immigrant. But we are also a nation with laws and we need to be a place that maintains a certain upholding of the law, laws of the country. You know, it's funny because for me, I am the son of a first-generation American. My grandparents immigrated here legally.

My dad is first-generation American. And I was raised being told what a great country this is. And there is a reason we immigrated here. And so I think as we see folks immigrate into the country, a lot of people are escaping something. That's true of my family. And we came here because of the values in America that made America. a country worth immigrating to. And so what I would contend is that there is in New York kind of the opposite where you

say, hey, I came here to escape something, but I'm going to bring values from outside of this country into this country. And in particular, I'm talking Mondami, I'm talking communism, I'm talking fundamentally non-American values. So I think as the grand-suffer, the grand sub-suffer, I'm talking. grandson of an immigrant and the son of a first generation American. This is a great country to be. And it's a country founded on Christian virtues, but there is a revolution happening from the inside out. Dude, so this is what I think, where I think a lot of Christians really struggle

with this is category confusion. And you guys can feel free to push back on this. But in the scriptures, there's consistently, there's a differentiation between the role of the individual and the role of the state. and this is why people will read the Bible and they'll be like, man, it says this thing over here and it seems to contradict over here. Actually, there's no contradiction. There's just a differentiation between the role of the individual and the role of the state. So this is why, for instance, the best right. This is why, for instance, the Bible will command individual Christians. Jesus will say, hey man, we should not be people who, quote, live by the sword. But then it will command a government in Romans 13. It will actually command the government to, quote, unquote, bear the sword. This is why, for For instance, the Bible will command individual Christians to quote, love the sojourner and the alien that resides among you.

But then it will actually bless and affirm a government in protecting a wall to protect its borders. Okay, well, why? Because there's a differentiation between the role of the individual and the role of the state in the scriptures. Then you take it a layer deeper, and this is a whole different discussion. Catholics call it Ordo Omorest. It means ordered loves. But it's like, we all know this, where it's like, hey man, like all three of us are dads. my God-given role, and this is really interesting.

Watch, so I'm going to say three things, and the first two, everyone would be like, well, of course. And then when I say the third one, there's going to be like, you know, people tend to have like a big cringe. I'm a dad. My job is to care about my kids in a way that I do not care about your kids. That's my job. That's right.

And I'm supposed to prioritize them in a way that I do not prioritize other people's kids. I'm the pastor of Lake Point Church. My job is to prioritize Lake Point Church in a way that I do not prioritize and care for every church in the entire world. I give disproportionate affection and attention to Lake Point Church because God has given me this leadership role.

Well, the role of governmental leaders, guess what? Is to prioritize the nation over which God has put them in authority. They have a responsibility for the good of that. that nation that they do not have for every nation in the entire world and the citizens of every nation in the entire world. You stack those two things together, differentiation between the role of the individual and the role of the state and the unique responsibility of a leader, God given responsibility for the thing over which he has been appointed to lead. And man, it's all of a sudden you get like, hey man, yeah, it's like it's actually righteous to have a clear

immigration policy. Make sense? Yes, no. Agree, disagree. Additional comments. Totally agree because we do this. You're right. In your own family. We do it in our church. We, with what's happening right now with the government shutdown, we drew the concentric circles. Like, we're going to start with our church here, with our families. If you're struggling with SNAP benefits, we're going to cover you first. That's right. And we're covering the community next. And so we can, you know, these, because we're going to run out of money before the world runs out of need.

We do that. We have to make that decision every day in Haiti. That's great. We can only feed so many people because I only have a finite amount of resources for that. So, you know, I, in the world, I think what, you know, Mondami's, you know, I think his most troubled constituent is going to be reality because he has this idea that we can just make money out of nowhere, you know, like Santa Claus. Darren, did you see that literally, I think it was literally this morning, he was asking for donations to cover the campaign promises that he made because he, like, literally this morning began realizing like, oh, I can't pay for this stuff that I said, like, you're like, bro got mugged by reality in a day. Yeah, be watching for the go fund me coming out of, uh, of my. Donnie's office. But that's the thing, right? I mean, I heard you say this at another podcast, you know, secular progressives especially, are they're really generous with other people's money.

Yeah. But it's our, right? But it's our own. But when it comes to that, like, as a nation, we're 37 trillion dollars in debt. Like, that's a real thing. And I think it was Thomas Sol that said that inflation is the cost of all that free money. And what we're seeing, here right now everybody's trying to figure where inflation came from well how about we just printed 15 trillion dollars out of nowhere that so my point of all that if we're talking about christian and christian love it is not loving for me in haiti to give so much food to so many people that now nobody's helped right yeah and as no one was talking earlier it's the genesis three world like there this world is curved on the edges there's no straight lines here so we have to make really

tough decisions and it's the least favorite part of my job is that we have to say no to more people than we can say yes to but if i don't then i'm not loving the people that god has charged me to love and to protect that's right starting with our own church right starting with my own family so let me first of all everyone should read thomas soul i'm literally reading a thomas i'm literally reading thomas so right now like potentially the greatest economist and kind of like almost like an economic philosopher of our generation. Like the dude is an absolute machine, a unit. So, but let's land on this.

All right, to your point, Darren, and then Nolan alluded to this a second ago. For a lot of people, the most terrifying thing they heard from Bob Donnie was in his celebration speech post-election results. So then go ahead and toss that. It's the one that I put at the very bottom there, Trinity. This is, oh my gosh, listen to this. Holy cow.

We will prove that there is no problem too large for government to solve and no concern too small for it to care about. I have no words. He said it out loud. He said it out loud. I think it was Ronald Reagan that said the nine, the nine most terrifying words in the English language are, I'm here from the government and I'm here to help.

Here to help, yeah. All right. enough to remember when he said that the first time, by the way. So you guys had to Google that, but I remember hearing it on TV. All right. Nolan, respond to the statement of an actual communist saying, we're going to prove there is no problem too big for the government to solve and no problem too small for the government to care about.

Nolan Jaden, what say you? Well, Bishop Howardon, I was at the DMV yesterday. And I do not want the DMV solving any of my problems. Like, I think government is part of the problem. Yeah. Yeah, so we're looking at God becoming government, and I think it's a form of idolatry that's going to grow and grow, and it's at its core fundamentally not Christian thinking.

The biblical worldview would insist that we depend upon God, that we have sphere sovereignty. It's Jesus who looks at everything. square inch of creation and says mine. Shout out Abraham Kuiper. Yeah. And so I'm looking to the authority of Christ. I'm looking to the hope of Christ.

And I think because we're in a world that is so post-Christian, the government is becoming the next best savior. But again, as you embrace the salvation of government, you also embrace slavery to it. Bro. I will just say this is really interesting. my first thought when I saw that quote was if you replace the word government with the word God, that is something that every Christian would say. So think about that. He said, man, we're here to prove there's no problem too big for the government to solve and no problem too small for the

government to care about. What are we as pastors trying to disciple our people to? Hey man, there's actually no problem too big for God to solve for you. And there's no problem too small for God to care about. So, dude, I will point this out. Historically, socialism and communism are inherently atheistic philosophies. And when you subtract God from the equation, therefore now is no authority higher than the government. So what happens? The government becomes God. And he's literally saying it out loud exactly what we would say in Christian theology about the role of a sovereign God.

Yeah. I've said so many times on Sundays, Micah is sitting here, he's probably heard me say, can memorize it, but if, you know, infinite God means infinitely large, which means he's infinitely powerful, but he's also infinitely small, which means he's large enough, he's small enough to know your problems and powerful enough to solve them. And you're right, that's literally what he was saying. Like that's a, like the Antichrist-Bizarro Superman version of that, the exact opposite, which is the government version. And look, I, I have a lot of empathy in that world because I grew up extremely poor food stamps, government assistance.

And the thing about that was, in social justice in general, is you get a free sandwich, but you don't get any hope. And it was the gospel that brought me out of that broke the entitlement, even just something simple as giving, right? That helped me to break the entitlement thing, because if you're just getting, getting, getting, it's something we teach our people when we're in developing nations. I there's a book called When Helping Harts that I read once a year.

And every year I'm like, oh, God, we did that. I feel like everybody in government should be forced to read this book. That's great. Because you can try to help somebody and then end up creating an entitlement thing. And I've done it. 25 years ago when I started, I was young and stupid and created kind of this little entitlement thing in the first mission we did. And I've discovered that book. And so here's what I would say to this.

We're all talking, I say we all, both sides seem to be talking to the same problems, right? We want to help the poor. We want to help the disenfranchised. But the message is different. The solution is different. And their solution is government. Our solution is God. And, you know, may the best God win.

Amen. Bro. That's a great place to land. Darren Tyler and Nolan Jaden. Thank y'all for hopping on, live free. Welcome. Thanks for tuning in to Live Free with Pastor Josh Howardton. We pray today's episode helped you take a step forward in life, culture, and faith as you live free in Christ.

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