Live Free with Josh Howerton - Aliens or DEMONS?! Megachurch Pastor Responds to UFO Mania | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Episode Date: May 11, 2026

Is UFO disclosure preparing the world for truth, or setting Christians up for deception? In this episode of LIVE FREE, Pastors Josh Howerton and Paul Cunningham unpack Acts 25–26, Paul’s bold witness before political leaders, and what his example teaches Christians about courage, evangelism, and using every opportunity to share the gospel. They also celebrate 741 baptisms at Lakepointe and share practical ways everyday believers can live on mission in their workplace, business, and daily life. Then the conversation turns to UFOs, aliens, UAP disclosure, demons, angels, and biblical cosmology. As headlines grow louder and government conversations around “non-human intelligence” continue, this episode gives Christians a clear, biblical framework for thinking about the unseen realm without drifting into fear, obsession, or speculation. In this episode, you’ll learn: Why Paul’s defense before Agrippa is a model for bold Christian witness How believers can share their faith naturally at work and in everyday life What the Bible teaches about angels, demons, the heavens, and the unseen realm Whether alien life would actually disprove Christianity Why many UFO and alien encounters may have a darker spiritual explanation How Christians should respond to UFO disclosure without fear or obsession Stand firm. Think biblically. Live free. 💬 This week’s giveaway: Comment HAT 🧢 Want a Live Free hat of your own? Visit LiveFree.shop 📲 Looking to grow deeper in your faith? Check out the Lakepointe App to access our Discipleship Guide, daily Bible reading plan, and more. Text APP to 20411 to download

I'm super skeptical about aliens. I'm super confident in the reality of demons. Extra treasual life can exist, and it would not overturn an ounce of the Bible. And many, if not most alien, quote unquote, encounters were most likely encounters with demons. Both of those things can be true. That's the main thing. Don't start giving level 8 attention to things of level 0.002 importance. Well, hey, Liffrey Nation.

Before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Point Church. in Dallas, Texas, but the live free nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this. We want to invite you to take a simple next step and that is join us for church online. Every weekend we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook and our church online platform and it's more than just watching a service. There are a live host in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church, or just looking for a place to start, church online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point.

We would love to see you in the chat this weekend. And now, enjoy the podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to episode number 75. What? I have no idea. Chadji Patti. Carlos, how you do? I can't look at them.

So Carlos is on vacation, which, hey, this is amazing. Quick shout out to our buddy Carlos and his precious family. I always sent a picture of Carlos from vacation. There he is. Looks like he's having the time of his life. The mannequin looks happier than him. That is actually not Carlos on vacation. That's a picture that someone took of a miserable Carlos who was forced to camp a few years ago.

And they sent it to me. And I saved it. Because I love Carlos, and I like to troll him with that picture. That's awesome. Okay, Chetjipalti, we've got to move quick because this is a full episode. Or as Carlos would say, rapido. Rapido. You got to roll the R.

Yeah, I didn't roll the R, my bad. Rappito. Yep. We're going to talk about, I know this is weird, just roll with us. First, we're going to talk Act 2526 and some really cool things here. We're going to talk about UFOs, aliens, UAPs, because of some things that are going on right now, that by the way, people are keep tagging me in.

And then we've got Josh McPherson, Ryan Visconti, hopping on, I think back half of this pod to talk some major shifts that are happening right now with pastors, politics, how pastors and churches should and should not relate to those things and some things that are happening sort of behind the scenes. So full episode, this could be really interesting.

Be fun. All right, hey man, will you ask me that? Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa. Okay, wait. Before we go on, and then you're going to ask me the question, Carlis. I'm ready for the question. I'm ready. We, so official count, this is, I still can't get over this.

Baptism weekend ended up at 741. It's nuts. It's crazy, man. It's incredible. I don't know anything like it. 741 people going public with their faith. I want to shout out two of them. So this first one, this is a guy named Kevin over at our, is Forney Campus, right?

Forney campus. and then show the picture of him. So it comes in a wheelchair and God bends his knee to the Lordship of Jesus. And dude, it's like literally, I know. It's like literally out of the gospels. Like, you know, they crack open the roof and carry him down. And just his brothers and Christ band of brothers right there, lowering him into the water as like going public with his faith.

And then Ms. Carolyn, let's go ahead and show her. Miss Carolyn right here, same thing. Now she was from, was it a senior center? Okay. And I guess through digital ministry. Wow. So shout out Ms. Carolyn, if you're watching. Ben, her needs, the Lordship of Jesus, wanted to go public with their faith. Same thing. Same dudes. Carry her down in the water and get baptized. This is crazy. It's awesome, right? It's just, I never get over it. Always brings tears my eyes.

We got to hear stories this week when our staff gathered, just different things that God did. It just blows you away. We really are just caught in the middle of her revival that's hard to put into words. Kyle caught in a hurricane of grace man. That's right. Dude, I'm always, because you've served at other churches. Honestly, after a weekend like that, my biggest fear are for our staff members that are like 24, and they've never served another church, and they think that's normal. Yeah.

I'm always like, God bless you. I hope you understand. It's not normal. Like, I've been explaining to people like, this is just not normal. And it feels like we talk about sometimes behind the scenes, it feels like there's just a window open right now. where God is pouring out his favor. And while that window is open, we're jumping in with everything to God. I'm reminded of a quote by Leonard Ravenhill.

Great. That's right. Great preacher of the past. Great author. And he said that the opportunity of a lifetime must be seized in the lifetime of the opportunity. I know. Great quote, right. And in other words, while that window is open, let's jump in with everything we've got and lean into what God is doing because it just blows me away.

All gas, no breaks. That's right. Hey, before we dive in to Acts 25 and 26 and start talking UFOs. The theological term, I'm going to go ahead and cheat and cut ahead. The theological term is a biblical cosmology. So we'll talk about it in a second. Before we start talking that and passages in politics and all this stuff, I do want to say we are, we are, authors keep me in the loop,

we are rapidly approaching a million subs on YouTube. All the digital team, that's not my thing, man. They all are smarter than me about that stuff. So anyway, what I would say is if this podcast is helpful to you in any way, if you could like, comment, share, and then click that little subscribe button and help us push it over the line. Over my shoulder over here, we got the little silver YouTube plaque that Carlos got when we hit $100,000, and apparently you get a gold one. A gold one? A gold one. I don't know if it's real.

I'm honestly afraid right now when we record that out of nowhere confetti cannon is going to go off and they're going to surprise us. When we get to a milly. Yeah, we get to a million. So that'd be awesome. And then you can also text the word app to the number 20411 to get the Lake Point app where it's all the sermons, all the discipleship discussion guides. Actually, there's an early release in the pods. They come out there on Sunday before they come out on Monday everywhere else. So you can text app to 20411 to get that.

And then last thing I'll say is because I keep seeing this. Dude, I don't even know about this. By the way, people keep saying this. I don't get any money when we sell hats. I just want to say that. The internet is insane. I get no money for that. It just helps cover podcast costs and all that stuff.

But a bunch of people keep saying they want hats. And some people think the only way you can get a hat is if you get chosen for commenting. No. So you can also text the word a hat to 20411 and you can just buy one. But if you comment hat, we will pick somebody from the comment section on YouTube and send you a hat. That's right. So Pastor Josh, I've got a question for you. Jesse Palti, I will allow it.

What didn't make them to the sermon? All right. First of all, this was awesome. Dude, I haven't preached on Mother's Day in probably 10 years. Really? Yeah. So I had a blast. That's awesome.

I had absolutely blast. We are in the, there's more endgame series. So this week, I know it's a little uncharacteristic. We hit two entire chapters. So we hit Acts 25 and X 26. And the whole deal was about sharing your faith. because what happens in Acts 25 and 26 is we're going to go Indiana Jones here in a second and show some cool stuff that you're going to see someday.

I got no jokes. You're going to see it someday. It's okay if you do. What happens in Acts 25, Acts 26 is Paul gets called before three Roman political leaders. Agrippa, Festus, and who's the other dude? Agrippa, Festus, and Felix. Yeah, Felix. That's right.

25 Festus, 26, Agrippa. and he leverages that moment to testify to the gospel. Okay, so, and he honestly, what he does is he gives like, it's very practical. Yeah. It's like a normal Christian can read Acts 25 and 26 and go, oh, so that's how, that's how I win one. Okay. That's right. Now, real quick, because there is some cool stuff in this, I didn't have time to do.

So let's Indiana Jones. This thing real quick, this is one of those things in Acts 20, in the book of Acts, we're like you can go there, you can touch all the stuff. So go ahead and toss that first picture up Trinity. This is, it's called Cessaria Maritima. Some people call it Cessaria by the sea. This is where all of the events of Acts 25 and Acts 26 take place. And when we go there, you go here and there's a bunch of stuff that happened here.

So let me just outline some things real quick. This is where Peter, when it talks about Peter preaching at Cessaria in, I think it's Acts 8 somewhere around there. That's where that happened. I think it's Acts 10 when Cornelius, the Roman centurion, is in the Cesarea area, that happened in or around this area right here. This is exactly where in Acts 23, here's your homework, Paul gets brought by 470 Roman soldiers. That right there is where he got brought.

Like this right here, right of that spot. and then all of the events of Acts 24, 25, and 26, they happened exactly right here. And then Paul is, people miss this sometimes, he gets in prison for two years. So he's in prison for two years at this place. Now, before I kind of show some things, from the, say a couple things about the passage,

let me just point out a couple things real quick. So keep looking at that picture. What you're going to see is over on the right, you've got that theater there. think you can still go in there and stand there. By the way, Passion did a, they did a worship concert right there. That's amazing. Yeah, a few years ago. Seeds 4,000. I'm going to tell you why they did that right there here in a second. If you look up, and I'm going to show this a little more clear, you see that if you look up and to the left of the theater, you'll see that it

almost looks like a puddle. Yes, that's what I was looking at. Yep. Yep, that was the, he built a hippodrome there that was like for chariot races. Like horse races? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Big, big, big deal right there. And then if you look on that little, almost like that little peninsula thingy, that's where Herod's Palace was, like probably right there. So go to that next one, Trinney, and you can kind of see it. So that's on the peninsula. This is a different angle. So top right of this picture, there's a theater. Paul does something very significant in that theater. I'm going to talk about in a second. There's the hippodrome on the left. Bobbill doesn't say anything about that. And then

down there in the red area, that's where Herod's palace is, upper palace, lower palace. So that's all, honestly, I never stopped being amazed by this stuff. You're standing in the book of Acts when you're standing there. This actually happened. These are real things that happen to real people. That's it. Real Jesus down and real cross with real you. If you give them your life, you can really change you forever.

So all this stuff happened right there. Okay. So let me read a couple things that explains some stuff that happened right here. Number one, let me read the passage and then I'll show you a picture that we know. Okay. So this is what says the next day Agrippa and Bernice came with great pomp and entered the audience room. Now, bookmarked audience room in your head. I'm going to come back to that with the high-ranking military officers and prominent men of the city at the command of Festus.

Paul was brought in. Okay. So this right here is right where Paul gets brought. notice is he comes in with a quote-unquote audience and it's clear it's a large audience this is where Agrippa and Bernice the little royal judicial family here he they're there and then it says they came into the quote audience room now go to that next picture at Trinity the one of the theater so that theater is almost certainly the audience room is talking about they know that for three reasons. From what I understand, there was not an audience room in the architecture of Herod's

palace. Okay. Okay. So you need a room with a large audience where Herod and Bernice would have sat and Paul testifies there. It's kind of interesting. If you go to that theater, I've still, I got pictures there. I couldn't find them. You can barely see it actually. If you look in the very lower bowl, like dead center, you can see a little shaded spot right. there? Yeah. That's essentially what it was, is like today, if you go to a MAVs game, there's box seats, that's a box seat. That's where Herod and Bernice, that's where they sat. It's almost like in Gladiator, like where they had that section right at the edge of it, kind of that same idea, like where they would sit there and be shaded.

And they do this thing. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. That's it. That's it. Okay. So, I mean, dude, I want you, that's where Paul gives his defense of the gospel before these people. And that's the spot where he says, that whole conversation of, would you in such a short time convince me to be a Christian? The apostle Paul stood right there and testified before all of those people in defense the gospel. Now, real quick, I didn't plan on doing this right here. Let me talk about the courage of this real quick. So Paul and asks one of the people he talks to here is Harriet Agrippa. This is the kind of thing you just miss if you're just reading real quick. So there's two names you get lots of in the Bible. You get lots of Mary's and lots of Agrippas, or lots of Herod's. So this Herod

is different from the other Herods that you would have read about. So the Herod Agrippa, that Paul testifies before in that little spot right there, his great, think about the courage of Paul. His great grandfather was Herod the Great. That's the dude this mentioned in Matthew 2 that, oh, by the way, orders all of the infants to be slaughtered under the age of two in an attempt to kill Jesus. Maniac. Okay. Not just maniac, but Paul is now testifying to the lordship of the resurrected Jesus to that guy's great-grandson. Okay.

Number two, Herod Agrippa, this mentioned in Acts 25 and 26, it's his dad that was, what was his name? It was herodic grip of the first. Yeah, Herodigroup of the first is the one that's mentioned in Acts 12. Yeah. Trivia, who's he have killed. James. James. Yeah, and we would have tried to kill Peter as well if he had not been miraculously released.

That's right. In Acts 12, beheads James, imprisons Peter with an intent to kill Peter. Yes. So do you don't want you to think about this? Like, Paul's standing in front of this guy that's clearly in his namesake, proud of his family heritage. And that guy knows, Paul knows. that guy's great granddad tried to kill Jesus. That guy's dad did kill James,

and I'm standing in front of him, telling him that Jesus Christ was resurrected and is king of kings and Lord of Lords. It's not perfect, but it's almost like imagine if you're a Christian in Iran, and you're standing before the great-grandson of the original, like Ayatollah. And that one put Christians to death, the next one,

and then all of a sudden you're there. That took some courage. Bro. Like, I mean, just to stand there. Because you know there's a good chance if you stand your ground. That's right. You're going to die.

Well, you already know that's what this guy's family does. Exactly. We didn't talk about this. It's not in my notes. But the Herod that he's testifying before, I don't remember the details, but he killed a bunch of his wives. And there was something on the... Well, he's just really a moral guy.

It's because Bernice is here with him, his sister, and is widely rumored that they were an incestuous relationship. Didn't Josephus record that or something like that? It was one. It was a couple of Jewish historians. It may have been Josephus. The exact names off the top of my head, but a couple of different ones reported the same thing that was widely rumored they were having an incestuous affair.

So this guy would have been reviled. He had a lot of power, but he was known to be a really immoral guy. Yes. But I mean, I just, you know, I just want to say that, man, in some ways I feel like courage is a lost Christian conviction. Like Christians don't talk about, man, we need to be men and women of courage. Okay. Well, that's Paul. Yeah.

I mean, that's Paul. A couple other things that are really interesting. So go ahead and show the picture of the. that little room, Trinity. So this wasn't discovered until a couple of years ago when they were excavating Herod's Palace on that little peninsula. So they found this, they found this room a while ago,

and they didn't think anything about it. Well then they started, archaeologists got in, started cleaning things up, and here's what they found, I'm gonna read it. Excavations uncovered inscriptions near the entrance, and again, remember, this is in Herod's Palace. This is really important. Actually, let me read the passage.

and let me explain it. So this is verse 23. Then he called two of his centurions and ordered them, get ready a detachment of 200 soldiers, 70 horsemen, and 200 spearmen, to go to Cessaria at 9 tonight, provide horses for Paul so that he may be taken safely to Governor Felix. The governor read the letter, so Felix is the guy by the time all this happened that lives here. The governor read the letter and asked, province he was from. Learning that he was from Solicia, he said, I will hear your case when your accusers get here. Then the Bible says, verse 35, then he ordered, I skipped ahead some verses, then he ordered that Paul, this is important, be kept under guard in Herod's Palace. So Paul was in a prison cell in Herod's Palace. So they find this room. It's the only room like it in Herod's

palace. They start digging around and you'll notice it's kind of underground. It's clearly dark, no windows. There's only one way in, one way out. It's, you know, kind of looks like a cell. Then they find these, I think, in Latin, these Latin inscriptions near the entrance that read, and I'll do my very best on the Latin. My kids are studying Latin. I'm not studying Latin. Custodarium, which means custody or prison, and fermentari, which nearby, which meant both supply and police troops. Okay. So all of a sudden, what they started realizing was this was essentially the PD of Herod's Palace.

This was the prison cell that there's only one, one prison cell they kept in Herod's Palace and all the weaponry for the PD right there was outright outside this room. So again, that right there. Bro, that's exactly. That's crazy. That right there. is where the apostle, stinking Paul, spends two years reasoning with these Roman political leaders trying to convince them of the gospel. It's nuts.

I know. It's awesome, man. One last thing I'll point out. And then honestly, man, I just want to kick it to you if there's anything you want to point out from this passage. You'll notice, I think it's in Acts 24 where Paul appeals to his rights as a Roman citizen. I just want to point some out here. then it's in it's at the end of 26 i think this becomes really important yeah yeah here it is so paul earlier in this chapter he does the whole deal i appeal to caesar um i talk about this in the

sermon where honestly my theory is because jesus in previous chapters physically appears to paul and he tells him you must go to rome Paul then, even though it was a bad judicial decision, Paul earlier goes, I appeal to Caesar. Now, at the end of this passage, it says this, last thing. Verse 32 and chapter 26, and Agrippa said to Festus, this man could have been set free if he had not appealed to Caesar. Now, I want to point two things out.

One, it actually worsened Paul's judicial position. to appeal to Caesar. Again, I think Paul's strategy was he wanted to be the photon torpedo down the vent shaft of the Death Star and that he wanted to personally share the gospel with the Roman Emperor, Caesar. I think that was his strategy. But two, what I want to point out is, so Paul leverages his rights as a Roman citizen. Number two, right here, he leverages the laws of the Roman Empire and the Roman judicial system to try to stand in front of Caesar. So I do want to point this out. This is, Honestly, there was a little rebuke for me a few years ago from this passage. You remember in COVID when there was like all these cities where it was like marijuana dispensary, strip joints, and abortion clinics stayed open.

And they wouldn't let the churches open. And I had pastor buddies. Actually, McPherson's going to be on later. Josh McPherson did it. Mark Devere and the guys at Capitol Hill did it in D.C. MacArthur and Grace Church over in California, they did it where they sued the governors. Yeah. What did he call it? He called it like, oh, we're peacefully protesting or something like that because people are allowing protests.

Yeah. So anyways, we're going to call this a peaceful protest. Honestly, okay. Let me talk about that. So yeah, he did that. So they were allowing, you know, hundreds of thousands of people to be body to body with no mass during BLM riots. But churches couldn't gather quote unquote spaced apart with mass in California. And it was illegal. So John MacArthur literally said, actually, this is a peaceful. protest against the forces of darkness. That's what he did. Now, I'll be honest, dude, this passage rebuked me is when those churches started doing that, as a Christian, there was part of me. It was like, man, I don't know if that's a good look for the church. We're suing governors. But then, honestly, you read Acts 24, 25, and 26. Paul throughout the book of Acts,

he leverages and uses the laws of the Roman Empire against people, against Roman governmental leaders to work the system to clear away any obstacle to the events of the gospel. That's right. And honestly, dude, I was like, you know what? Every single one of those churches, A, appealed to God-given sources of just authority, and B, they were doing exactly what Paul did to leverage their rights for the advance of the gospel. 100%.

What you see consistently when you see Paul speak throughout the book of Acts, and especially here, is when he speaks to authorities, he is respectful. So he's not basically dishonoring them by his speech or something like he speaks very respectfully to them. But he also speaks boldly to them. I mean like right here, he's sharing the gospel boldly, as we already pointed out. Life is on the line potentially. And he is speaking boldly about Jesus to them. But then also he presses his right.

So oftentimes we want to choose one of those. And he is able to do all three. He speaks respectfully to them. He honors God-given authority while also speaking boldly about the gospel to that God-given authority. and pressing his rights before them. It's all of those. You don't have to pick one. You can do all three.

That's really good. Yeah. Man, I'm a real quick, we're going to do this a little quicker so that we can get to answering all the questions Christians are asking this week about UFOs and UAPs and aliens. I always feel weird. Where's my tinful of hat? Yeah. I was researching last night.

And like the algorithm for my search of the last month with this podcast has been aliens, weed, alcohol. You know, maybe the weed and alcohol goes with the aliens potentially. But yeah, yeah, I'm with you. Sorry, keep going to interrupt you. Well, no, so what we'll do this quick. But the sermon and the passage were about us like, hey, man, our job is to win one. Hey, man, what do I do? How can I be used by a guy to win one?

So I'm going to give, I've kept an iPhone note for eight years now of we got a bunch of men and women at Lake Point that are just like knocking it down as business leaders, as lawyers, as policemen, doctors, teachers. And a bunch of them are like legendary evangelists. They figured out ways to leverage what they do for their vocation for the advance of the gospel. Every time I hear one of those great ways to do it, I've stuck it at an iPhone note. I've got 11 ways. And I'm just going to rifle through them real quick. I'm going to do that in a second, just to help us as disciples, is there anything you want to point out from Acts 25 and 26? Oh, yeah. Nerd out. Two quick things, because we do have to get to the aliens. Number one, and I want

to double click on something you said earlier. Paul had been in prison for two years. But what's interesting is before that, before he stays in prison for two years, that is where Jesus comes to him and says, you must stand before, meaning like basically testified to me in Rome. And so basically Jesus gives him my promise is this is my plan and then he has to still wait two years in prison. Bro, that's good. That's really good. And if I'm in prison for two years, I'm like, wait a second. I thought you said this must happen and it did.

But oftentimes when we feel like we get a word from the Lord or a promise from God, we feel like it has to happen right away. Even think about all the way going back to the Old Testament, God gives Joseph a vision that one day his brothers are going to bow down to all that things. And then he spends the next, I think, 17 years of his life and slavery in prison. Wow. And it's just a reminder. It's been said before, but God's delays are not his denies.

That's right. And in fact, often in the times while we're in those periods of waiting, God is doing things that are setting you up for your future, that you couldn't have gotten to your future if those things had not had happened. I've experienced this myself. I went, I did a year of grad school in Waco, and this was what I called the BC days before Chip and Joanna. Awesome. And so the things I'm about to say, I'm not, I promise I'm not knocking Waco,

but if you actually lived in Waco, you know. You know that everything I'm about to say is true. In the BC days, Waco, I'll just say it, Waco was a dump, man. It was just, there's a reason fixer-upper thrive there, and that's because like every house there was a fixer-upper. It was a college town, but with like closed down or seven or eight at night, it was just not the best place. I like, I go there and I just am miserable. And I'm the kind of guy. Like if y'all, you know, like said, Paul, hey, we're going to plant Lake Point, Alaska.

By the end of the week, I'd be like, awesome. I'd do all the coffee shops, I'd know places to eat. I'd be like, yes, it's going to be awesome. I was miserable there. Like, the analogy that I used to use when I was there is like, it was like my year of exile, like the Israelites, but unlike the Israelites, I had a car. And so I got my first year done, I left. Here's what's interesting, though.

So I hated that year. I felt like it was a waste. I was like, oh, I wasted a year. You know, I felt like, you know, got this plan for me. This wasn't it, so on, so forth. What's interesting is while I was in, Waco, I got a part-time job doing research for pastors from afar, this new company. Was it docent?

It was docent. You started with docent? I was started with docent. I started with docent. And so I'm starting to do research with that. That eventually leads me to my first full-time job out of seminary in which eventually leads me to the next one. I could go on and on, but literally I can trace being here to my year being there.

Wow. I can trace being here, which I believe this is exactly where God was made. My family's striving here. Love it here. This was always God's plan. And yet it took that one year. It's another way of thinking about it is sometimes we think of these things as detours, but sometimes it's those detours that are God's plan to get us to our destination.

And so that's just one thing I'll just click on. A little example of minute detail that you could pass over, but it's actually a really powerful thing to God's plan is perfect, but it does require us waiting sometimes. I'll click on that and then I'll let you go on. So the times Paul's in prison is Paul. in prison two times in Acts, but three times in church history, if I remember right. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure he's sitting there in prison. I guarantee he was going like, man, I thought, I thought God called me

to be out playing churches and preaching and sharing the gospel. And dude, I bet in the minute he thought like, man, what a wasted time. But do you think about this? Paul wrote the books of Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, and Philemon, at least those four New Testament epistles, all in those moments. And so all those moments where Paul probably thought like, dude, what a wasted time. Those actually ended up being the moments that produced the things that have disciples every single Christian for 2,000 years. Yes. Those waiting seasons, never wasted seasons. God has a plan, not just for the future, but also that he's going to do while you're there. That's right. While you're there. One other thing, and this is so interesting because these verses are back to back.

Let me read them in kind of before I frame the issue for us. So when Paul is sharing with Agrippa, he says this in this great, great line. Jesus is basically commissioning Paul. And then if you get to verse 17, he says, but hold on. 25 or 26. I am sending you to the Gentiles to open their eyes so they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God. Just great lines.

That they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by doing a lot of good things for me. No, it's not what it says. By checking off religious checklist. No, somebody says, it says, though it was sanctified by faith in me. Important. So it's so important because even think about who he was saying before. He's saying before, Gripa and Bernice, ungodly people. I mean, just ungodly people. And their only hope for people like this and for anybody is not anything they do, but only by trusting what Christ has done. Once and for all, we are saved by faith alone. And so, but what we see in the next verse, so it feels like it contradicts it,

but it doesn't. It's actually a really important thing to remember. Because here, if you just out there, they go, yep, is faith alone? No works are required. But then he goes on and literally in the next verses it says, I was not obedient, but I declare first those in Damascus and then in Jerusalem and through all the region of Dejia and to the Gentiles that they should repent and turn to God. But here's a key point, performing deeds in keeping with their repentance. So sometimes in my theology class that I'll do for staff or residents or for others, I'll ask a trick questions. I'll say,

do you have to do good works in order to be saved? Yeah. Or for salvation. And at first, like, oh, of course not. I'm like, what depends what you mean? Of course you don't in the sense of there's not any amount of good stuff I can do to make God love me and save me. On the other hand, what you see in scripture is that those who are truly saved are also transformed. Yes.

Always. Always. Those who are saved by Jesus are transformed by Jesus. to kind of put it in a different way. We always showed the thief on the cross is an example where couldn't do anything to clean up his life. Exactly. Couldn't clean up his life at all.

But then I said, well, what if Jesus actually didn't have men entered into heaven that day? What if he said, actually, I'm going to spare your life and you're going to go freed today. Well, you know what would have happened to him? His life would have changed. Yeah. He would have been a different man. So there's three ways broadly that you can approach this idea of faith and orcs. One way is called legalism.

That's the idea that I have to do good works in order to be saved. A second way is the fancy word is antinomianism, but it's basically like another thing is easy-believisim. By the way, for listeners, you just use a big theological word. Anti-means, and nomas is law. So antinomianism means against the law. Exactly. Or anti-lawian. Exactly.

So as legalists think, I have to do all these things to get God to love me and to save me. And antonomian or a person again, it's more like easy-believism. They're the kind of person said, oh, I'm going to raise my hand, I'm going to walk the aisle. I'm going to go to heaven one day, but in the meantime, I'm going to live like hell before then. Doesn't matter what I do. It doesn't matter what I do. Now that I'm saved, I can do whatever I want to do. Neither of those is the biblical way.

Neither of those is the way of Jesus. Instead, the way of Jesus is this idea of true salvation always brings radical transformation. And you're talking about Paul here. And I love in 1 Corinthians 15. He says, I was the worst of all people. I persecuted the church. But by the grace of God, I am what I am. And then he says that grace is not without a.

effect, I worked harder than any of them, speaking of the apostles. And then he said, but not me, but the grace of God that was in me. So I just always like to highlight this is it's a both thing. We are saved by faith alone. That's right. And yet as the first reformers, like people like Martin Luther and John Calvin said, that faith is never alone. That's right. A faith that truly saves is a faith that will truly transform. There you go. Bingo, man. Yep. That's all I had. That's good, man. Well, let me do this because this passage is all about Paul leveraging. He's never in a moment that he does not find a way to leverage the advance of the gospel. So I want to do this real quick because 95%, we got a whole bunch of pastors that listen,

but 95% of people, do they're working 9 of 5s, they're getting a hands dirty, they're swinging a hammer, they're running a business, whatever it is. So again, here's what I'm going to do real quick, and then we're going to talk about UFOs and aliens and all this stuff. Here's what I'm going to do. This is from the iPhone note. I'm going to keep me this for eight years. And I'm going to use some names and some of I'm not going to use names.

Okay. But 11 ways, 11 examples from actual Lake Point men and women that are like, here's a way that a normal dude has found to consistently share the gospel or advance the gospel as work. All right. So here we go. Let's go. One of them, and I will give a little details on this. This guy was a surgeon. One of our elders, shout out Chris Martin.

he had a medical issue on a golf course while we were on Elder Street. I love you, Chris Martin. We rushed him to the hospital. I think he had a burst appendix if I remember right. And while we're down there in Florida, it was a Christian. So this isn't a Lake Point, dude. It happened to a Lake Point, dude. It was a Christian surgeon.

The surgeon prays with Chris Martin, asked him, hey man, could I pray with you before the surgery? and then calls Chris's wife and prays with her before the surgery. So there's a whole bunch of them that I'm condensing in a one, but we got lawyers, doctors, teachers, and counselors that I've got in my iPhone note, who if you work a job where you're with people at like a crisis moments in their life, dudes on the PD, you're with people in a crisis moment, you being able to step in and just say, hey man, no pressure at all.

this isn't your thing, would it be okay if I prayed with you? That's right. And tons of people do that. They take you up on that. All right. Number two, shout out Eddie Dale. Eddie Dale, we got a guy. He runs a travel company over.

He built a great business, travel company, runs tours over to England. Radical evangelist. That dude shares the gospel. Him and his wife, Brittany. Insane. They were in our root of group. It was awesome. They share Christ with everybody they get in touch with.

His, tell them what, you tell me. Tell me what his deal is. It was him or even like a friend of his. We were hanging out. And what they do is when they go to a city because they're having to travel for work, they'll Uber. They won't rent cars, but they'll Uber. And when they're there, they'll say, hey, you know, is there a good local church that I could go to here? And so it's not like, hey, can I share my faith with you?

It's like, hey, I'm in town. I would love to go to church. They're good church I can go to. And then it really is one of two things. It's, hey, they're like, yeah, actually, I go to this church. This is a good one and everything. Then they found a mutual brother or sister in Christ and they can encourage each other. or they're like, ah, no, I really don't know much about that.

And then that's kind of their end then to begin to have more conversations kind of a thing. There you go. And so, yeah, just an easy, natural question that then can lead into one and kind of two responses. There you go. I thought that was brilliant. So if you travel a lot, there you go, man. It's Uber. Honestly, that's brilliant.

So, dude, the hack on this is finding and exploiting ways that don't feel, it's not weird, cringe, invasive, pressury. That's what all 11 of these are. It's like, oh, man, this is an easy way. they can feel normal to just, you know, share my faith. All right. Number three, I won't say this guy's name. We got a guy that runs a very, he's built a very, a great business in the area. And he does this deal with his employees where, you know, it doesn't matter if they're Christians.

But he just says, hey, man, we want to be an organization that cares about making the world a better place. If anybody in his company wants to go on a mission trip, they will help fund the person's mission trip. and they don't require them to use vacation time to go on a mission trip. That's amazing. Yeah. So it's like, dude, he's just finding ways to like, and dude, it's not pressure. In fact, think about that. Those people feel like I'm getting a blessing.

And he was telling me, he's had people that aren't Christians take them up on going on mission trips because they're like, well, you know, I like helping hurting people. Yeah. They go on a mission trip. They get saved. Yeah. Okay. So business owner, that's a killer one. Love it.

Number four. Shout out. This guy's name is John Howard. he's actually for my church in Nashville. So this is cheating. This is the only one that's not from Lake Point. John was supervisor very high up. I think he was a VP at Cisco.

It was a food distribution company. And he would do this thing. He had a massive downline. And he would record a short one to five minute thought from his devotion. And this was back in the day when you could send a little voice messages to everybody's office phones. And he just told everybody. He was like, hey, once a week, I'm going to send a little and, encouraging thought your way from my faith.

If you would like to listen to it, I think it'll encourage it. If not, not hurt my feelings at all. And that way, nobody feels pressure or anything like that. He's just consistently getting it out. That's number four. Number five, very similar. Another dude that was a senior VP of a very large company that everyone, everyone listens podcast has heard of.

I think at one point he had like a downline of 70,000 employees. and he would just do this thing with his direct reports where he was always coaching them about personal development and reflection. And so he'd be like, hey man, I want you, he said, you always want to be reading something to grow as a leader. And he would like, here's what I do. I'm always trying to read something this helped me grow as a leader and something this helped me grow as a person.

And then for his people, he would just nonchalantly, just very, man, here's what I do. Here's what I do. Here's some leadership books I'm reading, and then he would just slip this in. And then I read the Bible for 10 minutes a day, and I read a leadership book for 10 minutes a day. And he would just give it. And he said he would consistently have people who, like, they'd never been in a personal development pattern before. And they just, well, I'm going to start. I'll do that too.

I'll try it too. I'm going to read it. And it would spark conversations. Cool. All right, number six. So if you're listening, here's what we're trying to do. We're trying to give you ideas for how you can be on mission wherever you're at. Yep. That's what this is. Number six. Now, this one is also, and I won't use the guy's name,

this is another guy that's built a very impressive business. It's actually built like five or six very impressive businesses. This guy, you know, I'm trying to omit details not to embarrass anybody in a positive way. This guy owns a company who, were you here when we had the big freeze in Dallas and all the pipes burst? No, I don't think you were here. No, I don't think that. That was 21. I think it was 21. I think it was 21. We had, I think it was like, I don't know, hundreds of millions of dollars. The windmills and things like that got stuck. I don't know, dude.

Yeah, okay. That sounds right. Yeah. Well, we had that all over Dallas. People's pipes burst. And I mean, it was, dude, it was a thing. Yeah. This guy's company, and I won't say what company, this guy's company does repairs on the type of thing that everyone needed then.

What he did is as a Lake Point member, he approached us in our missions department. and he said, hey man, he heard about us trying to help everybody in Dallas. And he was like, I will donate my company's services to you at cost. We will make no profit on any person in Dallas that you guys help with those home repairs. And then all we did is we were able to walk in to all these people who reached out to us and fix what was wrong with their homes because they couldn't afford it. and then we would tell them, hey, man, some of the people that did this, they're Christian people, and they did this in the name of Jesus Christ, and they just gave them a little, here's a little note

from that company. That's so great. It was amazing. Yeah, amazing. I'll do this one. Here's another one, number seven. I'll be running through these real quick. Number seven, shout out Jimmy Dale.

Jimmy Dale runs a plumbing company at Lake Point. Pray for Jimmy. His father just went to hug Jesus. Oh, man. And I love Jimmy. I love his dad. Jimmy Dale was just like, hey, dude, I want to influence a bunch of plumbers, turning wrenches, swinging hammers.

And so he intentionally hired a guy, actually a dude named Bubba Thurman, who was a key leader in the student ministry at Lake Point. And he hired Bubba essentially to function as the chaplain of his business. And so essentially it was just like, hey, if anybody in our company, you got things going on your life, that guy right there would love to walk with you through a hard season. Love it. So, and it wasn't just like, hey, this guy's going to preach at you and show the Bible down.

It was just, hey, if you're going through a hard season, that guy wants to walk with you and your family. And Bubba would get up in their life. And hey, man, let me pray with you. Here's a book I'd encourage you to read and just check in with them and walk with their family. I love that one because you hear a lot of times about chaplains for sports teams. That's right.

And so, like, yeah, it's like, why couldn't we have one for businesses? Like you said, not trying to shut down people's throats. We're like, if you ever need anything, we've got someone here that they're only. job is to help support you and your family. That's a good one. That's it. The next ones are a little different. One of them, this one's real quick, and I won't say this guy's name for obvious reasons. Honestly, man, we got a few of these guys that they have just been blessed by God to make a ton of money. Just huge straight, man. God has just blessed these guys to make millions, millions of dollars. There are people like Lydia in the book of Acts who they just decided, man, I think God

created me to make money so I can advance the kingdom. And they just do their gospel patrons. And here's what they told us. They just came. And by the way, you may be listening and you don't go to Lake Point. I'm talking about you doing it at your church. Yes. You do it at your church. But they essentially went, came to us and they went, man, if there's ever a unique opportunity for us to do something that advances the kingdom and y'all need some dollars to make it happen, I need you to let me know. And dude, sometimes we'll have. things come up where it's like, hey, that building became available at pennies on the dollar. And because of one of those guys, we got that spot.

And now thousands of people met Jesus because of what that guy did. And they're a part of that story. That's it. Like, they are a part of that story. So it's just that guy that goes, when you got a need, you let me know. And my family might want to take care of it. So gospel patrons. Number nine, I love this one.

We got two guys that own CrossFit boxes. either they did, they do or did. I took this note two or three years ago. And dude, here's what they did. They actually got this idea from each other. They essentially, whenever everybody comes, you have a little intro, the first class you go to. And they tell everybody, they just say this,

hey, we want to help you in three ways, your mind, your body, and your soul. And so they just tell them. They just tell them, hey, man, mind, body, and soul. And they just tell everybody, if you ever want somebody to pray for you, we are here and we want to know and then they have a little book

they got a little table where they put a little CrossFit resources and you can buy your little wristbands and stuff and they're like hey and there's a book on that table over there that changed our family's life that's our gift to you if you ever want to be helped in your soul

and you just think about that it's not pressury it's totally normal it's a guy that's helping you're in your life and man that what they tell me is the number of people Like the percent, they said the percentage is more than 50 percent. So over 50 percent of people that walk in, eventually either grab them and go, hey man, walking through a divorce, would you pray with me?

And or they go grab the little devotional book and they start reading it. It's awesome. There's a chiropractor that I think we both have gone to at different times. Dr. T. Shout out Dr. Yeah. Literally in the whiteboards in those rooms, it's like, hey, if you need prayer for something, there's a lot of math.

You don't have to be a Christian to go there. In fact, many people who go or not. but they're like, hey, if you need prayer for something, put it in the whiteboard, and when we're in here, we'll pray for you. Simple things like that. Jana goes to Dr. T. I'm not a chiropractic. Every now and then, I'll do it. But the two times I've been, I got a hernia at a disc,

and so every now and that I get in a mess. And so what Paul's talking about is, when you walk in to Dr. T's office and you're getting treatment, you'll notice on the board every single time, there's a prayer request right there. Yep. And he tells you. It's not weird.

It's not cringe. He'll just be like, oh, that's what the last person asked me to pray for that. Hey, if you're a person of faith, would you pray for? Think about how he's saying it. It's non-cringe. It's normal. Hey, if you're a person of faith, would you pray for Sarah? And then he'll tell him, hey, could I put something for you on the board?

Yeah. And my people are going to be praying for you. It's, dude, it's so normal. And most of the time, people are going to say. Yeah. Absolutely. Even if not believers, they're like, yeah, you can pray about this. That's good.

Yep. So shout out there. And then last two, these are different. These are different. One guy, again, whose name I will not say, is C-suite. Dude, I think this is a Fortune 100 company. And this guy, especially in 2020 to 2020 was the era. Their company started enacting some organization-wide policies that made it hard to be a Christian.

You know, it was like, hey man, we need your pronouns in your bio. Yeah. They were, there were some other things I won't go into. They just made it hard to be a Christian. And dude, you talk about courage. This, you know, this pulls some worship out of my heart. This guy was an ambassador for Christ and an ambassador for the kingdom of God because in the C-suite enclosed doors and, hey man, Fortune 100, Fortune 500 company, that's doggy dog.

You're a gladiator, is what you are. And man, he like, this was a guy who just gently, respectfully embody. his convictions in those C-suite conversations, and no one will ever know this. But that guy's advocacy is the reason those policies got removed for hundreds of thousands of employees. And it paved the way for Christians to be able to live their convictions. Wow. That's a big deal, man.

That's a massive deal. It's a big deal. Yeah, because if people don't realize, like, it's a dog-e-dog world, to your point. And so part of it is, is like, if other people find out that he does that, then it's like, oh, they can do simple things. Like, oh, I'm going to file an HR report. said that he said this in pressure. It's faith just to try to get him out of the way.

So that is insane amount of courage. There you go. It's courage. Yeah. It's courage. And then last one is, and then if you got anything, you can dovetail up and then we're going to talk UFOs. Hard emotional gear shift.

Every time you say that, I'm always afraid this mannequin's going to suddenly move. I know. And I might die if this happens. It's a little creepy. As I'm saying, the day we're talking about UFOs in extraterrestrials, then you got this besides us. We have a non-human entity. Sorry, Carlos.

Last one, we got a guy. I love this dude so much. Owns a bank. He's a banker. And a lot of people don't know this, and I won't bore, this is like a church nerd thing. I won't bore you with details. For fast-growing churches,

it can be really hard to get loans to get buildings. And there's a whole bunch of reasons behind that. Most banks don't trust, it's not that they don't trust churches. They just like, they don't understand how it works. Because churches can't go, churches can't go, well, we sell this many products per year, and here's our P&L. And it's like, so a lot of bankers don't understand it.

Well, this guy's a very committed Christian. And he directed his company to open up an arm of his company that works specifically to help churches. Now, he always makes sure that it's trustworthy, and he's very, very wise about it. But he understands that world, and he leveraged his position in the banking industry to help churches that obviously, that they can trust to do their homework to get safe and wise loans for the advance of the kingdom. That's so good. So again, here's all you're looking at, man. You're just looking every single person everywhere. We're called to go wherever we're at. And how do I help win one more? And these are just so what you need to do is hear those,

if you're listening, pray and ask the Holy Spirit, which one of those could I put in place in my life and how? So good. To be Paul in Cesarea Maritama. That's so good. What I love is a couple things. I'll use one of these to segue into one little tip for me from a story. Someone told me is that some of these are direct. So some of these are things that you can directly do. Some of these are indirect, like the loan thing. We're saying, hey, as part of our business, we're going to do this.

And it may not be a direct thing we do, but it will through that impact others. And guess what? As we said earlier, you are still a part of the stories that are being told. Like, I believe there's going to be people one day in heaven and the new heavens and the new earth that they're going to meet and say, I came to faith through that church. and it's because you gave them that loan so that they could continue thriving. And it gives me chills to think about it.

It's like that's going to be a glorious day. And so that you have a part in that story. So I love that. Some of those are direct. Some of them are indirect. But yeah, a large thing I just want to extrapolate and pull out of a lot of the ones that you mentioned. And really, you said this a few times,

is what so many of these did was, let's just be honest, it can feel weird sometimes for a Christian to talk about their faith. And then because of that, they then make it weird, or they think that other people think it's weird. but you know how you make it not weird by just making it normal.

Yes, right. And talking about it, but in a normal way. And so I'll learn this actually when I was up in Washington State, a guy named Micah. He gave me this great little thing that he does. You know, you come back from the weekend on a Monday and it's very natural as part of the conversation. Oh, what did you do this weekend? And so you hear people that maybe are from non-Christian backgrounds that are saying different things they did. It could be stuff that we did too, you know, the ball field or whatever.

But sometimes they're doing some not-so-great things. And so when it gets to him, he just, he talked about some of the same things. Yeah, I went to the ball field. We did this. And he's like, oh, yeah, and then I went to church on Sunday. That's right, man. And he doesn't do it in a weird. He just drops it.

And then because the more he just makes it normal to talk about the things of faith, if people talk about what they love to do and he loves Jesus and he loves his church, it should be normal for him to talk about it. And then the more it's normal, then guess what? It's the normal for them to ask about it. And so I think that was a great little one. It's just coming back from work on a Monday. If people ask what to do, don't shy away from, oh, yeah, we went to.

we went to Lake Point or whatever your local church is and heard a great sermon about X, Y, and Z, because it might be that they're going through something in their life, like, oh, I need to hear about that, what they say. And so that's just a small one, but I think it's really effective as bro. Half the battle is just coming out of the closet for Team Jesus. Wherever you're at, that's seriously half the battle is just coming out of the closet for Team Jesus. Yeah, man. Because that's what that's what that, hey, I went to church this weekend. That's what that does. Yeah. It's a non-cringe way, just to signal, I'm on Team Jesus. That's right. Everybody knows it. It's good.

Let's talk UFO. Gear shift. Well, how you guys, as you know, Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know Christ, live free, and change the world for God's glory. But here's the thing. Movement by definition, move. And so if you're not moving, then the question is, are you really being a part of the movement? In fact, somebody once said that too many churches are like football games. 22 people on the field in desperate need of rest being watched by thousands of people in the stands in desperate need of exercises.

Hey, listen, we refuse to be a church like that. And so if you call Lake Point Church your home church, and if you have not yet joined a serve team, I want to invite you to take your next step right now. Text the word serve to 20411, and we'll help you find your spot where you can serve in person or online on whichever serve team you are being called to serve. Hey, thank you for being obedient to God's calling in your life,

and let's keep doing this together. Let me explain, this is, we're going to deep dive this thing real quick. Let me explain why we're talking about this, because I'm going to shoot you straight out. I don't love talking about it. Actually, let me start with this. Let me talk about why I don't love talking about it. I don't love talking about it. I'm going to read you a verse.

This is from First Timothy. I don't love talking about it because I think one of Satan's greatest strategies is not to destroy it, to distract you. And this kind of stuff is the thing. that you get, there's two things in my, in my experience, end times and aliens. Yes. I'm telling you, there's two things that weird people get weirdly fixated on,

and then they major in the minors and ignore all the majors. So here's what I'm saying. First Timothy one says this, as I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus that you may command, not suggest, command certain persons not to, listen, devote themselves to myths, and endless speculations.

Such things promote controversial speculations rather than advancing God's work, which is by faith. The goal of our command, so check this out. He's saying, hey man, quit doing all this thing where you're like you're focusing on all the weird stuff and speculating.

Don't do that. He's like, actually, focus on the main thing, knowing Jesus and helping people know Jesus. Focus on the main thing. Why? Because the goal of this command, the goal of our command is love that comes from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. Watch. Some have departed from these and turned to meaningless talk. So honestly, one of the

reasons, we're going to talk about it because it's, it is a big thing this week. Yeah. My spidey sense tells me it's going to be an even bigger thing in the coming weeks. But what I just want to give a warning, like as a Christian man or Christian woman, this is not the kind of thing. You want to start obsessing on. No. It's not good for you. Kind of even think of it like this in our conversation is I tell people, you know, and I think I may have said this before in the podcast, I hike a lot.

And I've never read a story that said, oh, lost hiker found dead on the main trail. Yeah. It's always what happens is they wander off on one of these little side trails and then they get lost because they couldn't find their way back and then they find them dead because of that. And so, you know, kind of think of it like this is for the next bit, you and I're kind to be like, trail guys. And I'm like, yeah, we're going to go off on a little side trail that is interesting.

there's some things we need to hit. But then, hey, let's go and at the end of that, let's get back on the main trail so that you don't get lost on. Knowing Jesus. That's right. Helping people to know Jesus. Exactly. No Christ, live free, change the world for God's glory. Amen.

All right. That's it. Let's talk about it. Okay. All right. Let me start right here. Here's what we're talking about. Trini, will you throw that thing up, the screenshot?

So this broke, was it yesterday? Two days ago. Two days ago. Two days ago. Religious leaders told to, quote, prepare now for UFO disclosure to unleash Bible-changing revelation. I don't have the screenshot of it, but the Trump administration said within about six hours of that, they confirmed Trump administration and Cash Patel said, yep, actually we have. We've delivered the first kind of, they called it a tranche. We've delivered the first tranche of documents for disclosure. And so, you know, they're like, yeah, you're going to see some stuff. Now, we'll say I started digging into this. This was not like some official government meeting. with like, you know, the type of pastors you would expect. But a meeting like that was called by one specific congressman, if I understand correctly,

with a group of pastors. And they did say something like that. Okay. So this lit the internet on fire. And my spotty sense tells me that wave is at the beginning and growing. It's not at its peak and cresting. So you want to talk about it real quick? Let's talk about it.

All right. First of all, let's start right here. So let me say a few things. One, if extraterrestrial life were discovered, that does not destroy your faith. I'll say a couple things here. Colossians 1 says this. He is the image of the invisible God, the first born of all creation, for by him all things were created, both in. And then it says, the heaven.

heavens, and it says, that means plural. The heavens is plural, multiple heavens, and on earth visible, whether thrones, dominions, rulers, or authorities, all things have been created through him and for him. So this is, what we're talking about in the next few minutes is something that's called biblical cosmology. It's a biblical understanding of how the universe is structured and the different entities in the universe. That's a biblical cosmology. In the Bible, when it says heavens, the biblical writers understood there to be three heavens. That's why if you notice, It's in Acts where Paul says, no, no, no, it was in Second Corinthians where Paul says he was caught up into the third heaven. Yeah.

So the reason it says third heaven, this is a little Bible nerd moment, is in a biblical cosmology, they understood it. Stop me if I start lying here. That the first heaven was essentially the sky where the clouds are. The second heaven would have been where the stars are. What we know is outer space. And then they understood in the biblical cosmology, when Paul says, I was caught up to the third heaven, that's like actual heaven thrown room of God. Yeah. Yeah. So when Colossians 1 says that he created all things in the heavens,

is talking first, second, and third heavens. So if there were things that he created in the second heavens, outer space, okay, I got a category for that. Yeah. And because people, when they say, oh, it's going to overturn everything, they think like everything's built on, you know, the idea there's not life elsewhere. Where if you actually go through Christian history, there have been people throughout that have posited that there could be other universes, much less, other planets with inhabitable life. Like Athanasius, what they said?

God may have made other universes. Basil, God's creative power is capable of bringing a greater number of heavens into existence. Cardinal Cusa, who is in the 1400s, says life as it exists here on Earth in the form of men, animals of plants, is to be found that it's supposed in a higher form in the solar and stellar regions. Who said that? Cardinal Cusa. What era?

Is the 1400s. Interesting. And so. I'm going to read some Charles Spurson quotes here in a second. And so even kind of get in the early, in the first four or 500 years, it wasn't talked about a ton, but a few people said it could be. And then you get to the mid-the-evil era, and there's actually a massive debate. You had some people, it's like, no, it can't be. But then you had others say, you're limiting God's power. And of course he can. In fact, Richard

Baxter, Protestant, like, wrote the reformed pastor. By the way, Richard Baxter is the dude on last episode that I had that prayer for when you're dying. That's Richard Baxter. Yeah. And he says, we can't know for sure. But he basically says, it is not, we shouldn't doubt that the vaster, more glorious parts of creation are not uninhabited. but that they all have inhabitants answerable to their magnitude and glory. So he's basically saying it's there. So basically what I'm trying to say is throughout Christian history,

there have been people who've said, yeah, it could be. And it doesn't overturn their faith whatsoever. Now, I'm going to cut to the chase. I do not think that's the case. And I'll explain why here in a second. I think there's some supernatural elements of what's going on. But our point is, hey, man, if that were to be a thing, It's like, do that, that doesn't change anything for me.

Okay, so on yours, I just discovered these two days ago. So apparently Charles Spurgeon, if you're listening and you don't know your church history, Charles Spurgeon is known as the Prince of Preachers, arguably the greatest preacher in church history since the apostolic era. In Great Britain, was pastor in a church like 10,000 people before there were microphones. Okay, I'm going to read you four Charles Spurgeon quotes. This blew my mind. Okay.

Number one, I think. it is no stretch of the imagination. So he's right in the late 1800s to believe that as this world is only one speck in the creation of God, there may be millions of other races in the countless worlds around us. This is Charles Spurgeon in 1890s. That's correct. Okay, here's another one. Number two, Charles Spurgeon, it may be true that all those majestic orbs that stud the midnight sky are worlds filled with intelligent beings. And it is much more easy to believe, believe that they are, then that they're not. For surely God has not built all those magnificent mansions and left them untenanted. This is the rare case where I'm going to go, I'm out on Charles

Spurgeon on this one, but this is what he thought. Well, and I didn't think of this to now when you're saying it, but arguably the three greatest preachers ever, obviously, apart from Jesus and the apostle Paul. Chris Sostom, yep, Spurgeon, and then Billy Graham. All three posited at least the possibility of it. I'm going to read a Billy Graham quote in a second. Oh, you got, okay. And then I'll wait because I... Do you have one? Well, this might be part of yours, but I have a longer quote that I'm going to save.

But he just says this. The Bible doesn't tell us whether or not there's intelligent life on other planets, although I find nothing in the Bible that would exclude the possibility. So he's basically saying in that one, like, hey, it's possible. I got a really interesting quote from him in a second. I'm going to save it. Let me finish these Charles Spurgeon. Okay, go on.

Number three on Charles Spurgeon. I cannot tell you how many races of intelligent beings there are besides the hierarchy of angels, but it is not at all improbable that there are as many worlds as there are grains of sand upon the seashore, and perhaps every one of these teams with inhabitants more than our earth does. This is Charles Version, 1880s, 1890s. Last one. It may be that every starry world teams with myriads of intelligent inhabitants. It is much more likely that it should be so than that it should not be so,

seeing that God is not in the habit of creating anything in vain. Now, what I will say is, I feel almost sacrilegious saying this. I disagree with this theology on that because I know, because what the Bible says is that the purpose of the heavens is to display the glory of God. That's right. I think the reason that the universe is seemingly eternal is to display the eternality of God. So I'm like, actually, I think that the Bible considerably more leans towards actually no. God created humankind in his image and that I do not expect to find anything else.

I'm going to cut to the chase and tip my hat real quick. I'm super skeptical about aliens. I'm super confident in the reality of demons. Yeah. Well, even before we get there to kind of rephrase something you said, is that if the universe revolves around us, then it does seem like a massive waste of space. But if it does not revolve around us, but revolves around the creator and it's supposed to point to him in his glory, then it actually is fitting of how massive it is and how glorious it is.

Because it's not pointing to us and revolves around us, but revolves around the creator of it. And so I think that's kind of a different way of what you said. That is not a massive waste of space, but actually it's something that even still doesn't capture the massiveness of God. And so, yeah, yeah. That's a while I want to go. That's what Carl Sagan used to say.

Carl Sagan, the famous, I think it was like 1970s atheist, his pale blue dot thing. And he would always say that. I was like, man, can't be a God. We're this tiny little speck. I'm like, well, bro, that's actually the whole purpose is to show us what is man that you are mindful of us. Yeah, because the scripture there says, oh, he just, that God pretty much holds the heavens in just the span of his hand.

Like the idea of it is pointing to the massiveness of the creator of the heavens. So keep going. Uh, way, last Charles, first quote, because here's what's awesome is he says that if there are aliens, he says what they're going to be most amazed by is seeing a forgiven sinner. I'm going to give you, this is amazing. This is an amazing quote. Charles Spurgeon, if you range all the stars around, and if

it be so that every star is filled with a race of intelligent beings, yet methinks among unfallen existences, there can be no such marvel as a forgiven sinner. At any rate, he is a wonder to himself, and he will never cease admiring the grace

which pardoned and accepted him. Isn't that amazing? Even if you disagree I know, it's really well said. I think it's kooky, But okay, man, that's fine. All right. Now, so that's biblical why. I'm going to give a couple other reasons why, honestly, I'm real skeptical on the aliens thing.

Trini, will you show that little heat map? Show this heat map. Okay. So what you're looking at right there is every recorded UFO sighting since 1906. They seem to really like one country. So what I want to point out to you is it, quote, unquote, just so happens that the country that is most into things like sci-fi and all, you know, sensational media and that kind of thing, it just so happens that that's also the nation where virtually every UFO sighting has ever taken

place. Yeah. It's a little weird to me. And it's also weird because in the places where the heat maps are most intense is where we have the most technology to be able to capture them. And yet we can never get a clear picture of video of them. Now, some people would disagree with that. Some people would. Some people would. But I don't know what I think about all that. Yeah. So on this, this little heat map, I think is funny. So there's a Twitter X account that I follow. This is a humor account. It's called Epic Maps. Epic Maps was trolling this reality, and they posted this, how aliens see Earth.

So one, what I'm trying to encourage people is like, hey, man, you need to have a healthy skepticism. Don't be like the conspiracy guy that, you know, is all in on this stuff. And then last thing, do you all just, like Eli, it's really interesting. interesting to me, of everybody that you would think would be in on the aliens thing, it'd be Elon Musk to me. Because he's all about space travel, generally a secular worldview. I screened out of this like a year ago. Musk tweeted this. So this at Doge designer, he tweeted this quote from Elon Musk in a press conference. If I was aware of the slightest evidence of aliens, I would immediately post out on X. This would be the most viewed post of all time. We have 9,000,

and satellites up there. We've never had to maneuver around an alien spaceship yet. And then he retweeted his own quote and he just said, yep. So I'm just saying like, hey man, here's what I want to say there is much, much more evidence for the existence of God than the existence of aliens. And if you or somebody that you know is drawn to accepting the one and rejecting the other, you need to ask what's going on in your heart. It's a good way. So I just want to say that. I just want to point that out. You got anything else here before I start talking about angels and demons? I was doing some research into this over the last day or two as I know we were talking about it. What you see if you actually just go look at reputable scientists, like Neil deGrasse Tyson, like guys like that.

Most of them would say, surely in a universe this vast, there must be life. Definitely life. But then the idea is intelligent life. You know, they would say it must be. But then they all talk about what was called the Fermi paradox. Fermi was, I believe, a physicist. He said, same thing. It's like surely with the amount of time that's.

gone by, there must be out there, but where are they? Because there's no evidence that we have found kind of a thing. And so what they, you know, most of the scientists would say is that, number one, the universe is so vast that even if they did exist, they couldn't possibly have gotten here in time. Also, if they were destructive in nature, they probably would have already destroyed themselves. So what I'm saying is, now again, we're not agreeing with them that oh, surely it exists. Their point more is that I gleaned from a lot of them is that, yeah, it probably exists, but most likely they have not visited us yet because there's no evidence whatsoever. So again, some of your, like, this isn't just an us thing or Christian thing,

like the brightest scientists who have no faith in Jesus whatsoever have all said, even if it probably, they probably exist, they probably could not have gotten here by now. And so that's just something to take in mind to of why we should be skeptical that they're actually here, not that they exist or not, but that they're here. That was just another little thing I'd found. All right. Yeah. Well, let's go, let's go layer deeper. Because we do as Christians, I think we got to have like a cosmology that helps us, gives us a category. for, I don't know how you say it, like seemingly non-human intelligences.

Well, hey guys, we have a category for that. They're called angels and demons. That's right. So first of all, before we talk about anything we say here, this is the spot where we warned about at the beginning. Everything we're getting ready to say is speculation. Yes. Which is something that we're not supposed to quote, devote ourselves to.

So is it okay to try to make sense of it? Yes. Is it wise to devote yourself to it? Definitely not. Okay? So here's what I would say is there's a reason that the Bible says that there is, the Bible calls them unseen things. There's a lot we just don't know.

And you need to be okay with that. So what I would say is if you start putting, you know, some of these phenomenon in a biblical cosmology, hey man, what a lot of people may be calling aliens, the Bible might call things like cherubim, seraphene, angels, archangels, thrones, principalities, demons, and powers. We have categories for strange phenomenon. By the way, I just want to say this.

This is like contra- atheism. You are not going to find a human culture in all of human history that doesn't report some sort of things go bump in the night vibes. Like you live in a strange, a spiritual world where there is an unseen realm. Yes. And that stuff is real and really happens. That's exactly right. You ready to get into some of the demonological part of this?

Let me start with Billy Graham. Let me start with Billy Graham. Let's start with Billy Graham. Okay, so here, I'll start with why. So here's where all, cards on the table. Skeptical of what aliens, confident about demons. Yes. I think the majority, vast majority or all, however you do it, maybe demonic manifestations.

Now, one, I do want to say this. I think everybody with a head on their shoulders should go, hey, man, if you think that there is not technology that governments have, that they don't disclose that they have, if you don't think that stuff exists, man, I've got oceanfront property to sell you in Dallas, and I'd like to talk to you. So, one, I think we've got to have a category for like, hey, dude, there's probably technology that governments have,

that they don't disclose. That's what governments do. That's right. On the other hand, there's also stuff that that doesn't really explain. So here's one. Billy Graham said this in his book about angels that was written in 1975, Billy Graham quote. I am convinced that these heavenly beings exist,

talking about angels, and that they provide unseen aid on our behalf. I do not believe in angels because someone has told me about a dramatic visitation from an angel, impressive, as such rare testimonies may be. I do not believe in angels because, this is the key quote,

because UFOs are astonishingly angel-like in some of their reported appearances. I do not believe in angels because ESP experts are making the realm of the spirit world suddenly seem more and more plausible. I do not believe in angels because of the sudden worldwide emphasis on the reality of Satan and demons. I believe in angels because the Bible says there are angels, and I believe the Bible to be the true word of God.

So here you got, you got Billy Graham going, hey man, there are unseen realms, angels, and demons. And some of what people report as UFOs may be that. That's right. I'll tell you why I think is very frequently demonic manifestation. Number one, Ephesians 2 refers to Satan as, quote, the prince of the powers of the air. I think that's notable. You got that.

Number two, dude, and this is, you don't got to agree with anything I say. And again, this is all speculation. In Matthew 24, Jesus is talking about what will happen at the end, more towards the end times. This is a little, this is very tinful of hatty. He says, but about that day or hour, nobody knows. not even the angels in heaven nor the sun, but only the father, verse 37. Because as it was in the days of Noah,

so it will be at the coming of the son of man. Now one aspect of the days of Noah, that's Genesis 6. That's when you have the fallen angel, sons of God, Nevillem, you guys did a whole thing on it. That's when you have supernatural beings visiting earth. honestly dude this is i know this is weird go listen to the nephelin episode that they did without me uh seemingly interbreeding yep so with humans and then you end up with hybrid natural and supernatural

beings that were walking the earth and visiting the earth in the days of noah some people speculate that some of what matthew 24 is saying is that type of phenomenon will escalate again now i'm going to tip my cards i don't think that's what matthew 24 is doing because the netherly next verse says that it's really about people were just doing their normal lives and got surprised by coming judgment. Yes. But I don't think it's totally out of the realm to say that might be one thing it means by as in the days of Noah. So there you go. Yeah. And then let me do this. I'm going to kick it to you and then I got a lot here. Oh yeah. Keep going. So then this, honestly, this shocked me. So J.D. Vance, have you seen this clip? Oh, yes. So J.D. Vance is doing this

podcast interview. This was last year. And I say, him my little iPhone note. And this lady just asks him as the new VP, what do you think? Aliens. Bro, listen to what he says here. Play this thing. Because Tulsi Gabbard says that she believes there are aliens. Do you believe that? You know, I don't, it's interesting. I won't say that I do or don't believe it. I mean, I'm a big believer that there are things out there that we can't explain. And so if another person sees an alien, maybe I see an angel or a demon. So I'm a big believer that there are like spiritual forces working on the physical world that a lot of us don't see and a lot of us don't understand and a lot of us don't appreciate. But, you know, is it aliens or is it

our guardian angel or is it aliens or is it a not so guardian force that doesn't care about us? Or in fact, actively wishes this harm. I don't know the answer to that question. What I try to do is I try to say my prayers. I try to be as good of a person as I can be and I try to do a good job. And hopefully that's all. So two things. Yeah. One, you got to daggum vice president of the United States who even if you disagree with politically, he's a brilliant man. That's right. This is a brilliant man. I think it was Ivy League educated. Yeah. Who by the way, has access to information you don't have access to and has seen things that you have not scene. And that dude is going, where you see an alien, I might see an angel or a demon. That's a vice president of the United States. Got some weight. Got some weight. Got a little weight. And then I'll

do one more and then I'm going to kick it to you and we can talk about some stuff. Show that, show that little screenshot. I didn't want to play the whole video because it's a little weird. So this is a representative, United States representative, Anna Polina, Anna Polina Luna. Now, she gave this quote, it was three days ago. Look at the quote. I didn't want to play the whole thing, but I watched the clip to confirm that the quote is accurate. Here's what she said. I don't call them aliens. Now, she doesn't talk about angels or demons.

But she says, listen to closely what she says. I don't call them aliens. I use the term interdimensional beings. Now, there was a congressional hearing in 2024. Okay. Where they started, you know, some people were purportedly bringing out UAP stuff. And if you go back and listen to some of that stuff, which I do not recommend, by the way,

I just saw little clips on X. consistently they veer away from saying extraterrestrial life or aliens, and they consistently use that language, interdimensional beings. Now, here's why that's interesting to me as a Christian. Again, all this is speculation, I got my tin full hat on, none of my faith is built on this. I know it sounds weird. In a biblical cosmology, what we have is that God created one universe with two realms.

There's the seen realm, and there is the unseen realm. Okay, we as humans, we operate exclusively in the scene realm. But throughout the Bible, angels and demons are beings that manifest in both the scene realm and the unseen realm. I'll just say this, dude. Another way to say that is interdimensional beings. Or to use biblical language, inter-relm beings. So, dude, now there's a whole bunch more reasons, in my opinion, to go, hey man, there's like some overtly demonic things that surround this.

I'm going to pause here. Is there anything you want to interject right here? No, I was ready to go there. I've got some examples. By the way, I've got examples. I was going to say, hey, first non-Christians and what they said. Oh, interesting. And then what Christians have said.

But really what we've said so far in our conversation to kind of extrapolate and bring it down to two things. Number one, extraterrestrial life can exist and it would not overturn an ounce of the Bible. We've said it could. We don't necessarily believe it does. but it could, and it wouldn't overturn an ounce of the Bible. And many, if not most alien, quote, unquote, encounters were most likely encounters with demons. Both of those things can be true. It's really that's pretty much what he said so far.

That is exactly what I believe. Is that extraterrestrial life can exist and it wouldn't overturn the Bible. And many, if not most of the encounters that people talk about are probably encounters with demons. It probably, this shouldn't surprise us. And what I mean about that is that if you actually go to the Bible, you see in Corinthians where Paul says that worship given to idols was actually. worship and communion with demons. But think about what those idols shaped took. The idols would often take the shapes of things like birds, the sun, a hawk, a dog,

if you're talking about the nubis in ancient Egypt. In other words, things that were natural phenomena that people would then take and then demons would appear to them in that way or receive worship in that way. It shouldn't surprise, because that was fitting for the culture of that time. It should not then surprise us in our culture in the last hundred years that this has become a thing. If demons would say, ooh, I'm going to lean into that then, and I'm going to use this as a method to give people's hearts and their minds and their souls. Shouldn't surprise us. Is that accurate of what we've been saying so far? A hundred percent, dude. So let me give you some testimony in terms

because you're like, well, what are you guys talking about as demonic? Well, let me just give you some testimony that first non-Christians have said in things that they have heard. And then we'll talk about what Christians have encountered as well. So wait, let me get a run and start into this. Yeah, please. So what he's getting ready to do, this is, honestly, the first time I heard this, totally blew my mind. Totally blew my mind. So let me give you five little fast facts that, and this is going to get a run and start in what you're about to read, that are reasons that I go, there is overt demonic activity around this stuff. Number one, there is a high correlation between people experimenting with occult and new age practices and quote unquote alien abductions. So that's number one.

So you're, hey man, when you're messing with that stuff, that stuff's real. It's really demonic. Okay. Number two, there is, and this is somewhat you're going to read. Dude, it's freaky and it's weird. people who have had who report quote unquote alien abductions they consistently report messages from these quote unquote beings that are explicitly antichrist yes and explicitly reject jesus like with specificity so that's number two and i'll just remind people galatians 1 8 but even if we or an angel from heaven

or i might add the heavens appear to you and preach another gospel let them be accursed. Glacians 1-8. Number three, those messages, and you're going to get into a little of this, that people report receiving, often revolve around humanity being prepared for a spiritual ascension process. Number four, the claimed messages often encourage a one-world government. By the way, are you going to read something about that? No, keep going to read. Okay. That's some of the same stuff on. I don't know what you're going to read. So you're coming in blind. I don't know what he's going to read. So one-world government, by the way, you get to the end of the book of Revelation, what is Satan tried to accomplish in the end before Christ's return, it at least seems like a one world government so you got there, often to protect the environment and avoid nuclear war. That's a little side note. And then last one, bro, this is nuts. In multiple claimed abduction experiences, the people that it happens to specifically say the experience ended when they invoked the name of Jesus

Christ. Bro, blow your mind. Now, I don't know what you're going to read. So we're going into this blind. You do whatever you're going to do. That's good because so much what you gave, I'll give some stories to color and really hidden a lot of the themes that you just hit. So these first ones are, again, these are from non-Christians. I want to say things. These are from non-Christians. They don't have a bent towards this in terms of faith. These are just non-Christian. So first one is Whitney, Whitley Streeper. This American author known for horror fiction, but horror fiction, but also nonfiction of count of alleged alien encounters. And he writes,

The visitors seem to consistently and profoundly opposed to the idea of Christ. Interesting. Big thing that he quotes. You also got John Keel. He is the author of The Mothman Prophecies, a movie that was made, I think, 20, 25 years ago on that. He argued. Was that John Cusack? No, no, who?

It wasn't Cusack. Gear. Is Richard Gear? Yeah, is Richard Gear. Yeah. Man, he's so likable. It was made off of a book that this guy wrote. And so, and he, and basically what Keel was kind of, he kind of takes like mythological things,

analyzes them and stuff like that. And so he argued that the entities behind UFOs were often deceptive and shapeshifting. And one of his most famous quotes were, the UFO manifestations seem to be, by and large, merely minor variations of the age-oh demonological phenomenon. Bro, he's a non-Christian dude said this. Guy, wow. Yeah. Dr. Carla Turner.

So she had a Ph.D. in English, had an alleged alien abduction encounter, and begins really diving into this. So again, she's not a Christian, was not a Christian apologist. But she summarized alleged alien behavior in this way. The entities lie consistently. Why that matters is Satan is called the Father of lies. And get this, they take control of human beings against their will. Well, that sounds kind of familiar. Yeah.

Like the entire gospels where Jesus consistently. encounters demons who do just that of the idea of the, I think the example of the person who would be thrown into the fire against his will. You also find a lot of Antichrist elements from different stories like Jesus was only a man, is what the aliens would say. Christ is not uniquely divine. Humanity is evolving beyond Christianity. All religions are equally true. The Bible is corrupted. Humanity will soon receive a new revelation, all the things that you would find if you read the book of Revelation talking about the Antichrist or his forces. If Galatians 1-8 became reality, that's what it would sound like.

Exactly. So those are non-Christians. Again, saying things that just on hearing them, that sounds a lot like what we would find of what demons and Satan would do. But then in terms of Christians, there's a group of people who, they used to be into this, but then came to faith and have really started researching it. And what they have found is exactly what you found. They found that there were a lot of people who, if they invoked the name of Jesus who began singing a hymn, all of a sudden, the alleged an alien counter would all of a sudden stop. And they found that fascinating.

For example, one of the cases involved a brand new Christian called Bill D. During alleged alien abduction, he cried out, Jesus helped me, and the encounter immediately stopped. And so when the person that was doing this research contacted this, basically, UFO investigation organization to see if they had similar cases, they would only talk to them if it was off record. Really? Because it would ruin their careers if they said on their record what they would go on to tell them. And so the truth was that they all knew of similar. accounts of abductions being stopped by people praying, singing hymns, or calling on the name of Jesus. But because it was religious and nature, not scientific, the evidence was deliberately

ignored and hidden. Fascinating. So, yeah. So really, I've just shared those stories to say everything that you were saying, because people hear this, oh, you guys, this is just your bent in your opinion. We're sharing these opinions based on the testimony of both non-Christians and how they describe these encounters and the entities, alleged entities behind them. And what Christians is they've actually researched into it, I found as well. Dude, I'll give another one that kind of corroborates. So this is interesting, and I won't use the person's name, but it's somebody very close to me.

I shared this story years ago. I had somebody very close to me that was going through a season of extreme depression, and a person not given to that, extreme depression. And they walked into a biblical counselor's office and reported the depression, and this very wise counselor over the years, he had developed a checklist. And he was like, hey, I think a lot of times what's going on with people is not just, you know, mental or emotional, it's spiritual.

And she said, would you take this home and would you check anything that's become a part of your life? And, you know, some of it was like what you'd expect, like, you know, overuse of alcohol, drug usage, past, you know, past psychedelics, stuff like that. one of them was something like fixation or something like that like you're basically you're really into aliens and UFO stuff and he had that on the checklist and this guy read the checklist and he was like what the heck like why does this he be on here and sure enough he was and nothing weird but he was just like that guy who when there was something on the national geographic channel the underwater alien show he was like you know what it's interesting you and he had been watching a lot of it. And he was like, man, honestly, I had started thinking about it a lot. And so he checked it. And he came into the biblical counselor the next time, and the guy noticing asked about it.

And this biblical counselor said, hey, man, basically what we're saying. He said, in my experience, very frequently when people have spiritual and emotional issues, there's a high correlation between them getting really into the UFO alien thing. and he just told him, he said, I'm going to be really honest with you. I think a lot of that stuff is demons and it's demonic. He said, I want to ask you during our time to get that out of your life. And then if I remember correctly, he like prayed, I don't know how to say it, like almost like a deliverance prayer.

I want to pray over you for freedom from any demonic influence. And sure enough, dude, this guy that very, very close to me that had been struggling for months with dark depression, he said, said as soon as I got out of that stuff, gone. Wow. Never struggle with it again. Wow. So that's anecdotal.

But it's like kind of here's where I'm going. It's like, hey, dude, there's too much smoke for there not to be some kind of fire there. Exactly. Because even when I was doing some reading around some of the people who were not Christians and what they wrote, the consistent thing was in almost all of the stories of alien encounters. It's never good. It always leaves the people profoundly harmed and disturbed. which you would expect if these were encounters with demonic forces of some kind. So again, what we've said, again, just to remind people.

And then I've got a great quote from Billy, I think that helps in terms of just not, again, getting us too caught in the weeds in this little side trail, but getting us back to the big things. But is if for some reason ever came out that extraterrestrial intelligent life existed and that they visited us, it doesn't overturn an ounce of the Bible. Jesus Christ was still raised from the dead. Exactly. And most of the encounters that we hear about, most likely are encounters of demonic forces. And so it's not to be trifled. And because of that, I think that's also a warning to people who want to dive into this stuff is like, hey, when you begin dancing with the devil, he'll dance back with you. And so just if anyone who's listening to this or watching this is really interesting, be very careful what you're getting tangled up with because this is the kind of stuff that the enemy is always looking for a crack. He's like water. He will find the crack and he'll get in. And this is one. I was reading, and this is a great quote from Billy Graham. And I read the first part earlier where he says, the Bible doesn't tell us whether or not there's intelligent life or life on other planets. So I find nothing in the Bible that would exclude the possibility.

But if there is life on other planets, then God created that life for God created everything. Furthermore, if there are beings and other planets that have souls and can know God, then God created them in his image. He did us. And you can be sure that he has somehow made it possible for them to know him. He's saying, hey, if it happens, it's not an overturning. But I love what he's about to do. He's just so brilliant at this because he's about to do what we started to in this conversation.

He says, don't get sucked into this stuff. Remember the big things. Don't get sucked into meaningless speculation. We may never know for sure if there is life on other planets. The distances to other star systems are almost unimaginably vast. But we do know this. The heavens declare the glory of God. That's right.

The skies proclaim the work of his hands. And we also know that. God sees us and knows all about us, as Jesus said, even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. It's interesting to speculate about life on other planets, but God is concerned about our lives right now, as we should be. Come on, Billy. Have you put your trust in Christ and are you living for him? If so, someday you will go to be with him and all your questions will be answered.

Come on, Billy. Way to go, Billy. I mean, Billy, come on. It's hard to beat that. It's hard to beat that. Oh, man. Let me, before I close this episode. I'll do two other, just little quick dovetails.

That's good. These, I'm not even sure I'm in on these, but there are, like Michael Heisner's mess with this. There's a couple of the guys that mess with this. That what they're trying to do is give people a biblical category for phenomenon around this. I'll shoot you real straight. I'm not sure I'm in on this stuff.

But if the questions people end up asking, well, if it is like a demonic thing, what do you do with if it ever comes out that they supposedly recovered bodies or biologics? And then, you know, what about spacecraft? Like, demons don't need ships, do they? Okay, so again, this is super tinful, Hattie. I don't think I'm in on this stuff. But if you were trying, if you were trying to fit those things into a biblical cosmology,

one on the body's thing, I will shoot you straight. This is interesting. again, you really do need to go listen to Nephilim. Put that in the show notes, please. The Nephlin podcast. Because there's no getting around it as weird as it sounds. Genesis 6 seems to clearly describe, quote-unquote, the sons of God. And when it says that, it's talking about seemingly fallen angels.

And then the book of Jude specifically, did you guys mention that? Yep, yep. This book of Jude specifically mentions that those fallen angels that descended and then interbreeded with the human beings. with the human race. The book of Jude mentions that God judged them, okay? And Genesis 6, it just seems to overtly mention that there were fallen evil angels that did intermarry with the daughters of men,

is what it says, and may have created like hybrid natural, supernatural beings. And so if you were trying to dovetail, like a body into a biblical cosmology, some guys have done that. And they've gone, hey, Honestly, that may be what that is. I don't know if I'm in.

I'm just saying. And then this one's even more of a stretch to me, but I'm just going to say it because people ask. It's on the spacecraft thing. I have seen guys, you know, honestly, this kind of thing where I'm kind of like, I don't really care. I'm focused on people becoming more like Jesus

and all a bunch of people getting saved. But what some guys have pointed out is if you read the book of Ezekiel and the way that, you know where I'm going on us? I think I do. Yeah, yeah. If you read the book of Ezekiel and you start going, well, how do angels appear in the book of Ezekiel? You get in the best that a 5,000 or 3,000-year-old Hebrew language, the best they could do, bro, some of it sounds like some sort of crap.

I'm looking at it right now. I'm reading it. This is Ezekiel one. As I looked at the living creatures, I saw a wheel on the ground beside each other. creature. This was the appearance and structure of the wheels. They sparkled like Topaz and all four looked alike. Each appeared to be made like a wheel intersecting a wheel. And as they moved, they would go in any one of the four directions the creature faced. And the wheels did not change direction as the creatures went. The rims were high and awesome. All four rims. So I could go on.

Now again, I don't think this is a thing. But I'm just saying if you were trying to dovetail it, you could go, well, hey man, if that's how angels appear, then why is it so crazy to think that's how fallen angels might appear? And then you sort of stack that on top of, hey, man, he's the father of lies. He's going to create, try to create plausible. So anyway, I don't know if I'm in. I'm just saying. That's right. I'm just saying. So it sounds weird. Yeah. Let me give some last pastoral encouragement. So let's shut this down. And then I got to get to this, bro, the conversation with Josh and Ryan is crazy. We're just, yeah, it's crazy. pastor's politics, all the things. So final pastoral

encouragements. I strongly encourage every single person not to get sucked into this deal. And then the Bible tells us to have nothing to do with deeds of darkness. And if this is what we believe they are, I'm not going to mess with that stuff. Number two, one of Satan's strategies is to get people to devote themselves to myths and endless speculation. Hey man, you're supposed to keep main thing, the main thing. What's the main thing? To know Christ, live free, and change the world

for God's glory. If you're, like, that's the main thing. Don't start giving level eight attention to things of level 0.002 importance. That's right. So I would say that. I already read the first Timothy verse. Hey man, don't mess with that. It's going to lead to, quote, departing from these things, the main things, and turn to meaningless talk. The last thing I'd say is, man, if you're a Christian, we don't do fear. So, man, we don't let, no matter what happens, we don't let stuff, fear not. That's right. We don't do fear.

So what I would say is, hey, man, maybe you're not a Christian. What I'd say to you about this stuff, you're listening to this pod and you're going, dude, there at least seems to be something about what they just said. What I would say to is, hey, man, if there's a darkness, that means there's a light. That's right. And that light has a name, and his name is Jesus Christ. and the Bible gives us a promise for anybody that bends their need to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, greater is He that is in you than, and I'll change a little bit, than whatever is in the world.

That's our encouragement. That's so good. Paul Cunningham, would you close to prayer? I'd love to. As Father, on that note, I do pray that we would always be people who keep the main things, the main things. Even thinking back to what we talked about in the first part of this pod, you have the Apostle, Paul, brilliant man, could have gotten sucked into all these different things. Lord, he lived his life, living for you and telling others about you.

And Lord, I want to pray that same thing for anyone listening, that we would not get sucked into vain speculation about UFOs and aliens or anything else. But rather, God, we would live our lives before you. And every day, wake up and say, God, what do you want me to do today? How would you have me live? And so, Lord, I pray that we would do that. Lord, I want to ask that you would guard people getting sucked into this and being influenced by the forces of evil.

And I want to ask God that rather you would help people see the light that is you and live as light in the world around us, God. And God, I want to pray that you would give all of the men and women and kids and students and everybody else in between listening to this. Would you give them courage to speak about you? That's right. Well, what I pray that them speaking about their relationship with you and what they're experiencing at church would just become such a normal thing that it wouldn't be weird for them.

And that because they talk about the things that they love, they would talk about you and about their churches, Lord. And I pray that through the men and women and everybody listen to this, that you would bring a ton, countless one mores to know you so that they could be with them forever worshiping you, the one who is the creator and ruler of all things. Amen. Amen. And live free. Live free. We miss you, Carlos.