Live Free with Josh Howerton - Are We On The Edge Of The Next Revival? | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Episode Date: May 26, 2025

What happens when a bold faith collides with a skeptical world?   Pastors Josh Howerton and Carlos Erazo are joined by Pamela Baltazar and Jana Howerton for a rich, laughter-filled, and truth-packed conversation centered on Acts 17 and Paul’s legendary sermon on Mars Hill. As they unpack how Paul’s approach to sharing the Gospel mirrors the challenges we face in today’s digital culture, the group explores how believers can engage the modern “Areopagus” of social media with courage and clarity.  Along the way, they celebrate God’s faithfulness through 25,000 baptisms at Lakepointe church, highlight stories of life change, and even consider whether Joe Rogan might be inching closer to Jesus. This is a powerful conversation about legacy, revival, and using every platform to share the hope found in Christ.   👍 Like, Comment, & Subscribe for more life-changing podcasts!  🔔 Turn on notifications so you never miss an update! 📝 SHOW NOTES  Subscribe now to receive the show notes directly in your inbox with each new episode. These notes are filled with key insights and scripture to help you reflect and grow deeper in your faith – https://lakepointe.church/shownotes  👇 DON’T MISS OUT!  Looking for strong connections and lasting friendships? Our Life Groups are where you can build real, honest relationships and grow together. Join a Life Group today – https://lakepointe.church/groups/ ⛪ ABOUT LAKEPOINTE CHURCH: We believe that Lakepointe is a movement for all people to Know God, Find Freedom, Discover their Calling, and Make a Difference. With 6 DFW locations and programs for all ages, there's something for everyone. 🤝 Support this ministry and help us reach more people with the Gospel: https://lakepointe.church/give STAY CONNECTED: 🌐 Website: https://lakepointe.church/ 👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lpconnect/ 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lpconnect  🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lakepointechurch   🎧 LISTEN ON THE GO!  ▶️ Live Free on Spotify / https://open.spotify.com/show/353ryGdZNlebaiqkCcy3Yc ▶️ Live Free on Apple Podcasts / https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-free-with-josh-howerton/id1669321198

Welcome to Live Free with Pastor Josh Howardton. We're so glad you're here. Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know Jesus, live free, and make a difference with their lives. And this weekly podcast is all about helping you do just that. Each episode is a deep dive into the Word of God, tackling life, culture, and faith with truth and clarity so you can be equipped to live free in Christ.

Thanks for tuning in. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode and follow us on all our social platforms to stay connected to everything happening with Live Free. Now, let's dive into today's episode. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Live Free Podcast. My name is Carlos Erasm. I'm here with Pastor Josh Howardton, and we are here today with Pamela Baltasar. The Hispanic camera.

There you go. And Janet Howerson, nice. The immigration lawyer. That's all I think about now. Hey, did you get any phone calls? No. If I would have said that at LPE, probably. Oh, my gosh.

I'm going to make this joke in FPE. We have to know your audience. For the public record, if this is the first podcast that anyone's ever listened to, I did not come up with the joke about that being an immigration lawyer. Pamela did. Yes, yes.

I only say this in English. Like, I cannot say that in Spanish. You didn't announce that an LPE that's your new. No, no way, no way. Okay, that's hilarious. I would have got a lot of compals. Pamela, I just want to reiterate, your message on Mother's Day was incredible. It was great.

It was great. Or like the elder text thread was just, that was amazing. She's so anointed. Yes. Thank you. Well, thank you. I'm honored for the opportunity. And, you know, Hispanic preachers are the best.

Right, brother? I mean, I don't know. I mean, come on. You're really good. That's all I'm going to say. Who's the most famous Hispanic preacher in the world? Who's you say? Probably historically.

Yeah, historically. Is it? Luis Palau. Oh, yeah. Definitely. He's like the Hispanic Billy Graham, right? Yeah, basically. Yeah, you're right.

Okay. I can't think of anybody else recently. Richard, no. Other than Pamela about his are. I can't realize. Hispanic camera. Dude, can I do it? Before you get moving, the funniest thing you did in that sermon was there was something

you said. Oh, you were talking about like something that was going to have a bit of an edge to it or could rub something the wrong way. And if they, man, if you have an objection, do it, you're like, you said like, I know speak English. Me, not speak English. Don't email me. Me not speak English.

Oh, it's great. You're good about getting humor in there. That's a great, that's a great thing to pull whenever you're, you mess up or say something that doesn't sound good. It's my second language. Yeah, I'm sorry. Maybe that's why you misunderstood what I said. I got that card ready for when I need to use it. Hopefully.

That's right. That's awesome. Let's talk about X. Let's go. Hey man, the podcast is going great. Guys. There's a strong momentum. We hit top 70 last week.

That's great. Apple spot or Apple top religion spirituality. It's awesome. That's awesome, man. And honestly, shout it to the people that are liking, subscribing, sharing, commenting. That literally helps. That's what does that. That's literally what makes that happen.

And so, and I want to give a couple shout-dows because we started doing show notes recently. And it's really fun to see. Oh. Did you get some? Well, no. Didn't you tell me there's like 600? 600 people have downloaded the show notes. And so, man.

And that's just like in the first week or so. Something like that. Wow. So all the notes, Bible verses, highlights, you can have that. You can just download them. You can go to lake point. That church slash show notes and they should be available for you to download. What we're loving about that is guys are, well, I'm sure women are too, but I'm especially

hear from guys that are like taking those. They're listening to the sermon, listening to the Live Free, the Deeper Dive podcast, taking the show notes and then using that like to meet at like Starbucks before work for their life group discipleship so awesome math shout out to Jeff Hansel and his life group he said my six care group guys meet at Starbucks each Tuesday morning 5.45 a.m. Let's go over the morning. Bible study the live free podcast has become a big player in our discussion and Debbie Langham has said the same thing our life group is on the sermon and on the podcast. So show notes link in the description or go to lake point out church slash show notes and you can find those there.

Boom. Man, I also need to, we need to celebrate something that happened recently in our church's history. Guys, this is a big deal. Are you going to do it? Do you want me to do it? I think you got it. So obviously on baptism weekend, we baptized like 670 people that one weekend. But what we didn't get to mention, I can't believe I forgot to mention this last weekend.

That weekend, Lake Point crossed 25,000 baptisms in our church's history. That weekend, we crossed that mark. Oh, wow. So from 1979 to now. 25,000 baptisms. And that was cool because I remember my first year here, I asked for them to count, okay, how many baptisms in our church's history? And we were at 17,000.

And so, man, it's just like, feels like, you know, just blinked. And then this is amazing. Wow. It's awesome. Shout out to Pastor Steve and all of the faithful thousands of members that just over the years, just seeing the kingdom advance. Awesome. Amazing.

All grace. That's amazing. So good, man. All right, y'all, well, Acts chapter 17. This is such an exciting. No, what a preacher we had. This is such an exciting. What a preacher we have. Another Hispanic preacher. Y'all are taking over it. Is this like the great replacement theory on the pulpit? I'm teasing.

I don't know. I don't know what's about. We're just taking our territory back. That's funny. So, little by little. This is Mexican speaking. Obviously. Yes, of course. I was born in a far away.

land a little more than the south, so I don't have any land to take back. But I'm going to claim you anyway. We're going to claim you as hours. Oh, my goodness. Camille of the conquistador. That's right. She's an attorney and a conquistador now. Yes, of course.

Oh, my gosh. Man, I love. This is awesome. Let's keep going. Let's go back to Acts after 17. There we go. Hey, bro, for real. You are an unbelievably gifted teacher of the bottom.

You are. Two times, like, in the last couple months, unbelievable. Appreciate that. Unbelievable, man. I'm learning from the best. We're proud. We're proud. Man, first of all, you have been, Janet, have you been to Mars Hill?

Yes, yes, yeah. So I set up the context. If anybody missed the message, we're going to Act 17. This is Paul's, it's the only time he's ever in Athens, and we can do a little deeper dive on the context here. We've actually got some pictures, and he contends to the gospel on Mars Hill, also called Ariopagus. It's a hill in Athens.

So that's all the context we need for now. Let's go back to Jana. Janie, you've been there. Tell us what was like. Anything that stood out to you? Well, I think this may sound bad. I think what stood out was that it was kind of, I don't know, it's kind of like a major place for Christians. You know, like we're very interested in it.

We want to see it. But, you know, I don't even know that there was a sign marking what it was. I've got a picture of one, but it's not in English. and almost nobody ever notices it. Can you guys go ahead and show it? Actually, let's go ahead and show Mars Hill. So that's Mars Hill on the outskirts of the city proper of Athens is still there. What you can't see is up the hill from Mars Hill is the, what's it, the Agora?

Acropolis. Well, the Pantheon. That's right. And the Pantheon sits. Sorry, I always get those two. Pantheons in Rome. That's not spot in Rome. That's right.

That's right. The Parthenon is, which is on the top of the agora, or the Acropolis, the Acropolis. Yeah. That's right behind it. Yes. So it's like, honestly, just as it says, now while Paul was waiting for them in Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that it was a city full of idols. So he's standing there and looking up and you see the Parthenon.

And, I mean, it just, it makes so much sense whenever you can see where he was and everything that was around him at the time. Yeah. Because he can literally stare at the demonic false god temple while he's standing on it. So Jana mentioned, man, there's not even a sign. So I read about this in my research. Go ahead and toss up that tiny little. That's the only thing that marks it on the path up to the Ariopagus. That is Paul's speech that he gives in Acts 17 in Greek.

Wow. And it's just a very nondescript little sign. That's the only thing is there. not even in English. That's it. That's in Greek? That's correct. Who put that there? Paul himself.

What a great speech. Let me make it. Janet did. I don't know. That's interesting. That's amazing. Did you see that? Janet?

What do you saw? I think I vaguely remember seeing that, but I don't think I knew what it was. Because I don't know. I don't think, I don't know that she pointed it out. And if maybe I would. I can be in my own little world looking at other things, so that could have been what happened. Let me think, you know, this is a beautiful photo for the memories. Yeah, yeah.

What's it full of people? I wouldn't say it was, it was much fewer than I thought. I thought there would be many, many more. I mean, we had our whole tour group, so, I mean, that was larger, but I, not as many as I thought. Dude, what's so interesting on these, like, that was our journey of Paul trip, and then obviously we'll do a steps of Jesus trip in Israel. By the way, especially for our Lake Point folks, or our digital disciples, broader family, Jan and I'll lead, we'll usually lead one trip, either a Jesus trip in Israel or a Paul trip there. What's really interesting about those trips, man, all those supplements I took right before we started recording, I feel it.

You all, I warned him. I told, I said, don't do that. That's a bad idea. Oh, man, my plan. Caffeine pill over here? No, I'm like, I don't feel good. It's B vitamins. You got to take it on a very full stomach.

You shouldn't, I told you. He just ate like a whole bunch of chick flay right before. He did do that. I had to have something on my stomach. You got to warm them spiritually. That's right. If I'm off my game, that's why. But what's really interesting about those trips is all those sites, like nobody cares except Christians.

And really, it's kind of like only Christians who are like super into their Bibles. So you'll be walking past like, dude, when we visited like Corinth or you'll be walking past these things that it's like your mind is blown. and no one is there, or everybody's walking past it, and nobody cares. Because the only people that have it in their hearts are Bible-believing believers. We were literally the only people in Corinth when we were there. I think that's true. It was our group. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. Wow. So you have some stuff. Yeah, so this is. Yeah, I'll do a couple quick things. And if I get into anything that, you know, it's your sermon. I'll stop you. You get into it.

So first of all, wait, wait. No, just kidding. You can do that. You can do that. So first of all, this is for Bible readers. Obviously, we're jumping back into the Book of Acts. People have been falling through Lake Point. We're taking two or three years to weave in and out of the Book of Acts doing there.

There's more series verse by verse of the book of Acts. Acts 17 is one of the most significant chapters, misiologically. That's a big word that means a study of mission. How do we share the gospel and help the gospel advance? So what Paul does here is called the Ariopagus. You just saw the picture. It comes from two Greek words, Arias Pagos, which means, Hill of Ares.

Ares is the Greek God. But then sometimes it will confuse Christians because I thought it was called Mars Hill. Well, Mars is the Romanized version of the Greek God Ares. They're both the god of war. So that's what you got there. I won't go into this. Aristotle actually talks about the Council of the Ariopagus. Did you stumble on that in your study?

Not Aristotle. I got another one. You got Socrates. You got Socrates? I didn't get Socrates. Did he socrates live at the same time as the Apostle Paul? He did not. Ah, dang.

Dang. History fail. But I'm curious about Aristotle. So this is a little quote from Aristotle. He mentions that specific place where Paul is. The council of, this is Aristotle. Yeah. The council of the Ariopagus was guardian of the laws and kept a watch on the magistrates to make them govern according to the law.

So basically there was a time in Roman and Greek history where there was a council that met there. it was like the Supreme Court. They were like the court over the courts. And then it evolved over time to where they lost their judicial power, if I understand correctly. But they still were sort of viewed as like, ah, these guys sort of adjudicate between philosophies and ideologies. That's what gets Paul there.

Side note, this is a little interesting. So was So was Socrates before Paul? Yes. All right. And he gets, he got killed. That's right. He was the dude that drank the hemlock. Is that right?

I don't know that. Okay. He was sentenced to death by the Greco-Roman Empire. People have noticed, Bible scholars have noticed, in Acts 17, some of the objections the Ariopagus counsel make against Paul are similar to the accusations they made against Socrates that resulted in him getting a capital punishment. So some people are like, bro, Paul was like up there fighting for his life as he defended the gospel.

A couple other things I'd point. Can I say more about that? Please do. So it's interesting because when Paul shows up, yes, this is a place where people are basically debating ideas and philosophies. But then, like you said, before, it used to be like a legit court. So people would get sentenced, basically judging ideas. If you had a religion and we're like, and they thought that religion was dangerous, we can kill you. That's basically what.

So the accusation or I guess the comment that Paul gets about what he was preaching is, they basically were saying, this guy is preaching, quote, foreign divinities. And again, this is 400 years before Socrates was accused of literally the same thing. One of his charges was Socrates was preaching foreign divinities and therefore he was sentenced to death. So Paul literally knew, man, I'm going to this place and these guys have some authority. And if this goes south quickly, like I could I could end up like Socrates 400 years ago. And so anyways, he knew that risk. Which I like the courage of the Apostle Paul. Yes. Because you can tell, the message, he does not, like, we'll get to this in a second. This little sermon has points. Like, it's got some edge to it in a prophetic way that's calling them to faith. So I think that's

interesting. A couple other things I think are awesome. And it says that Paul, the English Bible translates it was greatly distressed by the idols. The Greek word is, we get an English word from this Greek word. The Greek word is paroxysmas. That's where we get the English word paroxysm. Like, If somebody goes into like a, has a, I'm having a brain lapse, probably because of those supplements. What's that? A seizure. If somebody has like a wig out, their brain does a thing. In English, sometimes they'll call that, oh, a paroxysm.

We get that from that word. And I just want to say, we don't have time to talk about this right now on this podcast. I've been trying to get this into a sermon for like years and it's never fit. Paul talks about people's different species of consciences that people. people have different types of consciences, he lists six of them all throughout the Bible. And basically what you're seeing is that if, here's the big idea, if you can be around wicked, sinful, demonic things and not be greatly distressed, something is wrong. So what you're seeing about Paul is he had a sensitive conscience.

He was provoked by the things that provoked the heart of God. I think that's a big... Wow. I think that's a big... That's good. That's good. You already hit this. Greek historians say that in Athens,

this is a literal quote, there were more gods than men. So an estimate of around 30,000 statues. So essentially, now our Bibles tell us, New Testament says that behind all those idols are demonic powers. So Paul's walking in and where they see, like, ooh, this is a cool little statue.

Paul's going, demon, demon, demon, like this is, he's going, this is a demon infestation. There's more demons than men than people than people. Yeah. So he's greatly distressed. Yeah. Yeah. And then last thing I'll say, and we may get into this because what this, for a normal, a Christian, this going, dude, how is this applied to my life? I think we learn a lot about evangelism from this. And I'll actually point something that's very interesting out. This is the only sermon Paul ever teaches no mention of the name of Jesus and no quotations from scripture. And I think there's a reason for that. Maybe we'll get into that later.

Okay. Okay. One thing that I found, this is so crazy and this is like a little hidden nugget. You know, obviously Paul tells these people, hey, I see you guys are very religious and that's probably a very gentle statement considering there was like thousands of demon statues around. And but at the same time, even if somebody doesn't know Christ, there's like an ache in everybody's soul for the gospel. And the reason why he goes there and he finds this altar for the, quote, unknown God is because there's actually a reason. There's a tradition that explains why this is a thing people did in Athens. So apparently, 600 years before, there was this poet that basically said, you know, at the time, people believe that the gods were angry. And so this poet said, what you need to do to find out if you're missing a God so that you can appease is you need to release hungry sheep in the Aeropicus Hills.

And I guess, you know, again, apparently sheep that are hungry don't lay down. They look for food. And so this poet said, once you release these sheep, if they lay down, that's a spiritual sign of a God saying, you need to put an altar there for me. And so apparently they did that. And the sheep, you know, some sheep were hungry and they lay down. And they went, okay, here, we need an altar to an unknown God. And so that's what they did.

And so, you know, it's interesting because, again, 600 years later, in the city of Athens, there's this thing called the altar to the unknown God. But if you think about it, when Jesus came, if you zoom out, let me zoom out. So what they did is a lamb was released and when it lay down, it was sacrificed to atone for the anger of the, quote, unknown God for people to receive mercy and healing from the plague that brought death. So there are sicknesses around and say, if we do something for these gods that are angry with us, we're going to find healing from this plate.

Six hundred years later, God the Father sent Jesus to be the lamb who laid down his life and sacrifice himself to receive the wrath of the father because of the sins of the world so that his people can receive mercy and healing from the plague of sin that brought death and so that the unknown God who is also the creator of the universe can become known. This is John chapter 1 verse 29 when he said, Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world. Acts chapter 17 Paul shows up and he says what you worship as unknown, I am here to proclaim to you. Bro. That's great. That's great. That's great. That's a good. That's it. That's amazing. That's amazing. nugget. There's no way to spin in the sermon, but man, I had to, this is amazing. It's awesome.

Dude, that was incredible. It was. I just learned this, you know, before the sermon, obviously. Man, the scarlet thread. It's a scarlet thread that runs his way through the whole Bible. It's all about Jesus. The gospel's everywhere. Gospel's everywhere. There's a, from what I read, so Paul quotes the epaminities guy. Did you read this? Paul quotes the epimenides guy. from what I read because I read that little thing about the sheep what I read is that

part of what prompted them doing the sheep thing was there was a huge plague in Athens. Did you read that? Okay, yeah. And so that what prompted the sheep thing is big plague and they were like man, the only reason there would be a plague is because man, some God is really ticked because we got statues to

everybody except them. So then they do the sheep thing and they're like, oh, okay, go. So we don't know who it is. Let's at least make an to them so that they stop being mad. That's amazing. That's crazy. That also speaks about, you know, the fear that men have, you know, because sometimes we want to seem like very independent and I can do my own thing and I don't need anybody.

But there's a fear inside of you. Like there's something bigger than yourself that you're, there's something you need protection from. Like there's this fear and I think that's the men doing like, let me cover all my best bases. And, you know, that's why they have so many idols because, you know, we want to be protected and there's a fear inside of you that only like God can have peace and can bring that you know joy and peace and everything in your life so you know it's amazing for me that's right that's right that's right well it's interesting because um and we're we have a lot to cover today so

maybe this is something about Joe Rogan yeah we will you want to go over there no we don't do it now I'm just saying we got we're going to go Joe Rogan uh TikTok theology bro Joe Rogan's going to get saved I think so I wonder if he already is I saw the clip we're going to play later. And it's like, I started, I was like praying for him while I was listening to podcasts. Like, save this man, Lord. Make him the 21st century Paul. Well, it's interesting because Joe Rogan is one of the most influential voices today.

And, you know, I was going to say to, you know, at the time, these guys had Mars Hill, Aeropagus, which is a place where everybody's discussing ideas and debating things. Today, we have social media. Yeah. This is social media is the place where people are coming together and debating, you know, doing podcasts, discussing ideas. as Joe Rogan says one thing and it goes viral. It's crazy the influence. And so I guess I want to just open it up.

How should Christians view social media in light of the fact that, one, it's the air we breathe. And two, it's the place where people are having some of these conversations and how should we engage with this in a way that is similar to what Paul did? Well, Pamela and Jana are like, and not at all. We're the experts here. Let me teach you how to do it. Yeah, it's funny because before the pod, Pamela's like, Carlos, I don't know anything about social media. Probably we're not the best people to have at this specific podcast.

Jana hates it with her old soul. The only reason Pamela's aware of it is because she got roasted recently. But the thing is, I didn't even see it. People were like, did you see this real? Did you see it? Good for you. No. Show me.

I don't know. See, I didn't even know that happened. That's why the gym. joy in your life is so much more. Yeah, exactly. Part of the table. Me and Carlos are miserable. I'm sorry you have to take all those vitamins and super relaxed.

No, but I mean, it's funny to me because when we read this verses, it says that in this place, they did nothing but talking and listening about the latest ideas. And I'm like, it's exactly the same people do at social media. They're looking for the last trend, the funniest real, what people is saying, like the latest talk and people go there. And I know we joke about it and I'm not very engaged in social media, but like I know it's a platform that Christians can use to just spread the truth. And when Paul walked into that place, he was doing it with boldness, but because he had the truth. He had the authority of the Word of God. And we have that. And I think sometimes Christians, we are not

using that in all the platforms like this. So well, I'd say a couple of things. First of all, I don't think everybody. This is not like everybody's. called to do this. You know, so like, honestly, the data is not, we all know this, data is not good on what a lot of social media usage does to somebody's mental health and happiness and especially for kids. Oh, Carlos, before we go on, so I was sitting around the fire pit with Carl Cole. He's a, for a listener, he's an executive pastor, a great church called Southeast Christian that came in.

And he told me that he asked you to, did he shoot a video? Did he video you? He did. Without permission, because he's got, that's hilarious. He asked you, because he's got a son. 16 year old. 16 year old son. Quint.

That's awesome. Shout out, Quinn. And he asked you to tell his son at what age you thought he should first engage in social media. What was your answer and why did you say? Let me put a disclaimer on that. That's my, that was my gut response and that was my personal opinion because I don't have a 16 year old. So I have a three year old. So I'm not there yet.

But I said 18. I said 18. And why? Because my first thought was because of what it does to your mental health. And if you're an adult, a grown adult, and grown adults still struggle with their mental health because of social media. Comparison, seeking likes, honestly, distraction, just, you know, all the things. How much more will a 16-year-old or a teenager will struggle with that? I would not want that for any 16-year-old that loves God, has a purpose for their life, is full of creativity, to be concerned about what other people are saying

on some random comment on social media. So much hate. Counting likes, being exposed to that, feeling insecure, growing in anxiety. Nope. Yeah. And I agree that it's not for everybody to engage in that. I don't feel called to that.

I admire you guys because I know that you guys are called to that. But like, you know, it takes a lot of strength and spiritual maturity because I think I love it as, Apostle Paul, like he told the truth. He answered questions and then he left. He didn't engage in the controversy. He didn't fall into the trap of all the people that were there. And it says that after that some people believe some people didn't.

And I think that's the mistake a lot of people make. They try to convince and they start fighting in the comments. It's pointless. Like if people don't get it, they're not going to get it on the comment. So I'm getting ahead. I totally agree with you. I got thoughts. I will say this though because I don't want to just say like, you know,

I know our 16-year-old listeners are tuning in, and I want to be mindful of this because I'm really passionate about this. Like, I'm sure a lot of very talented, you know, teenagers are listening. And they're full of ideas, creativity. And I would say, you know, if you are going to use it, make sure that you don't use it in isolation and that you have the people around you, parents, friends, pastors, leaders to be there with you using it. Because I do think if you have something inside of you that God is putting in you,

Absolutely. Go ahead. I mean, we're obviously passionate about using it and leveraging for the kingdom of God. So, again, if somebody's listening like, oh, but I was so talented in design or in videos, like, find the right way to use it. So there's a couple things I'd say. So what Carlos is referencing is conversations we've had about, like, how should pastors think about it? So I can talk about that. And then individual Christians can apply that according to the leadership of the spirit and their own conscience. So number one, I think Pamela hit it and Janne alluded to this.

Number one, if you're going, how should they engage? First of all, let me go back. I do think that how we think about social media at Lake Point is we do view it as like a digital aeropagus. Okay, where is the place, like Pamela said, where's the place where now all the people who live there spend their time and nothing except telling or hearing something new and debating ideas and ideologies? Well, now that's where that is. So that's how we viewed at Lake Point. So we move towards it, not away from it, for that reason. However, let me give some guidelines for us.

Number one, how do you engage? I'd say, number one, carefully. So like Pamela said, Paul visited the Ariopagus. He did not live there. And that's important. And I'll just be honest, like, Janna knows this. That can be a struggle for me because it's like it can be a little hobby. Like I can enjoy it.

Like literally this weekend, I texted Jana, hey, this is for accountability. I'm using this too much this weekend. And I think I'm using it to escape. So I think I said to escape some feelings or anxiety or something like that. And I was like, hey, this is my accountability on my Sabbath. Like it needs to be like a no screen day. So I think you need to watch out for that. The biblical principle there is Paul says in 1st Corinthians,

I have the right to do anything, but I will not be mastered by anything. So if you start noticing like I'm not in control of it. It's in control of me. You need to assess some guidelines. Can I say something about that? Please. It's interesting because, obviously, these social media platforms are literally engineered to do that.

They're literally by design. Documentary. The social dilemma. Bro, that's it. Go watch the social dilemma. The dudes who created the platforms won't let their kids use it. And they pay, this is for real. The end of that documentary, I'm totally interrupting you.

No, you're good. The end of that documentary, they have like literally the executives who created the social media platforms talking about how they don't let their kids use it. And they pay hundreds of thousands of dollars so that their kids are in schools that never use screens. Crazy. What do you call a drug addict who uses drug or who consumes drugs? A user. Whenever you start a social media platform, what do you need to type in first? A user name. If you think about on Instagram, we have these reels. You do fishing. What's a reel?

In fishing, a reel is what's used to hook and bait you and draw you in. TikTok is the sound of time. It's TikTok. And so when you're on TikTok, you ask some people that are younger than, you know, 23, and some of them will say, I'm not even on TikTok because the moment I'm in,

like I lose five hours. And so it's trying to steal your time. I can keep going. That's amazing. That's refresh, refresh, refresh, but you never refreshed. Yeah. Let's go.

That's unbelievable. Let's go. So here's some other guidelines. I think for most Christians, like if you're going, man, how can I, in a good redemptive way, how can I use that tool for Jesus? I think the number one, just be the Jesus guy in like an open, non-cringe way. Like, don't hide, you know, don't hide your light under a barrel. Hey man, post about, dude, a great time with my family at churches.

You know, it's little stuff like that, man. Just be open. Be open. Worship in our Lake Point. Yeah, there you go. Hanging out with my life group doing the live free podcast show notes and going deep into the Bible. Yeah, hashtag, live free. Let's go.

This is not a commercial at all. Yeah, that's right. That's right. To Pamela's point, I rarely almost never think arguing on social media is a win. What can happen is the danger with Christians and the relationships and non-Christians. If you're not careful, the entire focus of your conversation becomes about, the 10% of things you disagree on. You don't want the whole relationship to be about what you disagree on. So watch out for that. The biblical principle here is the, this is, I think this is the

book of Romans. The anger of man does not produce the righteous, that's James. The anger of man does not produce the righteousness God requires. So what I've noticed with me is if there's anger that starts to well up in me in an interaction on social media, I'm out. Because I know it's not coming from a place that's going to be compelling and move them to a spot. So I'd say that. On that, I love 2. Timothy 23, don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments. And I'm like, that's all over social media. So like, if it's falling into a stupid argument, like, why do you think it's going to make a difference? We have never heard somebody, oh, yeah, I got in an argument, you know, in social media, and he changed my life.

Like, it's not like that. It's just a foolish. Yeah, exactly. I was an atheist and I read that comment and now I'm not. Yeah, you convinced me, bro. Like, of course not. Yeah, I think that's smart. The reason that we do what we do is, you know, as a pastor, like I do think it's a little different responsibility. I'm just trying to have the conversation where it's happening.

And where are people talking about this stuff? That's where they talk about it. So I want to go there. You know, I can't, you help me come to a realization that all of our people, they essentially have, like, wolves are in their pockets because. reels are sermons. And, you know, social media does reverse discipleship. So want to step in there. Hey man, you do a good job with that. Thank you. Yeah. That's right. Yep. Failing forward. So, man, I'm honestly, I, oh, last thing I'll say.

To Pamela's point on why it's like, it's just not wise to do the argue in the comments thing. My dad had a principle he taught me when I first started, like, working. And he was like, this is way back when the only form of like digital communication was email. And dad was like, Josh, if you're ever in an argument or a disagreement, call don't email because people can't read tone. Yeah. Call don't email because people can't read your tone of voice. So if you're in an argument, they're going to read an angry tone of voice into your written

words. So that's why, honestly, social media just doesn't, that's not a great place for like, let's go back and forth in an argument. It just doesn't work. I think we can learn from the Apostle Paul to know when to leave. Do not stay longer. Well, hey guys, one of the reasons we are intentional in creating this kind of podcast episodes is because we believe that discipleship happens in relationships.

Having said that, what we want to do through the Live Free podcast is model what it looks like to be in a discipleship group where we come together and open up the word of God. and honestly just grow together as followers of Jesus to live free in Christ. And so for this reason, we love that you're tuning in, but honestly, we don't just want you to be a passive listener. We want you to be an active participant. And so if you have not yet joined the group,

whether in person or online, I want to challenge you to test drive one. And so to do that, just text the word group to 20411 or go to lake point. that church slash groups because listen you're not one podcast away one habit away one decision away one book away one sermon away listen you are one relationship away to experience freedom in christ in community and now let's get back to the podcast that's great man that's good that's good i will say if you want to do the rogan thing we can't talk about how sometimes those digital spaces

you know, it's an example of where the Ariopagus thing actually plays itself out. You want to do it? Let's go. Let me set this up. So Joe Rogan, it's like, do women listen to Joe Rogan? Women don't listen to Joe Rogan. You have? Chelsea says yes.

Chelsea Groomer says yes. Okay. But he's like, I think it's the largest podcast. Probably. Isn't it the largest one? At least top three or something like that. Yeah. And they're long.

Yeah, they're like long. form discussions. So if people have been listening for a while, back in like 2014-15 when he was first becoming a thing, he was like very hostile and would mock Christianity and Christian faith. And then people started noticing he started having on like he had Jordan Peterson on and they spent like the whole podcast talking about the Bible. He had a dude, I think the guy's name was Stephen Ambrose on. And they talked about intelligent design.

He started having like overt Christian. and then he had Wes Huff on. We're going to get to that in a second. Wesley Huff is crushing. Like someday I want to get him on this podcast. Wesley Huff is a, he's a Bible scholar, like total nerd, but he's jacked. He's like, he's like a jacked nerd. Uh-huh.

Great guy. And he had Wesley Huff on who, and just like spent two and a half hours. Yeah. Talk to him. Deep, deep conversation. About the Bible and Jesus. And then people have noticed, Trini, you ready for that clip?

And then people have noticed Rogan has started saying stuff like this on his podcast. We got two clips, Tony. Yeah, only do the first. Only the drawing. Yeah, do the first one. So check this out.

There you go. I'm sticking with Jesus on that one. Jesus makes more sense. The difference between science and religion is that science only asks you for one miracle. I want you to believe in one miracle, the Big Bang. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's because it really is true. And it's funny because people would be incredulous about the resurrection of Jesus. Christ, but yet they're convinced that the entire universe was smaller than the head of a pen, and for no reason than anybody's adequately explained to make sense. It's detainously became everything. Yeah, yeah. Okay.

I can't buy that. I'm sticking with Jesus on that one. Jesus makes more sense. I love it so much, dude. That's great. That moment when Joel Rogan is doing apologetics on his podcast. He is. He's literally.

I can have said it better. So when you guys see that, I'm curious, like, before we go to the second clip, what stands out to you there? I think it's, like, most of the claims that the world makes, it's like it's against logic. We're not even talking about Bible, the truth about God or anything. It's just like it's so ridiculous, honestly, like the Big Bang. Honestly, it's so absurd that it's unbelievable. But yet, people prefer to believe that instead of Jesus. So I think this is a human just coming to their senses and saying like, oh, that doesn't sound.

right. Like this is more possible than this. So like I think it's basic logic and somehow like of course the spirit is talking to you and all that. But like setting that aside is just basic logic like just coming to your senses. Yeah. To me that's uh that speaks to the the power and the influence of doing what Paul did at Mars Hill of going to a space where everybody's debating ideas and Paul boldly proclaiming God and a biblical worldview. You know, obviously Joe Rogan is exposed to a bunch of digital pauls that basically enter his space, his world, podcast world, and, you know, like, Wes Huff, just proclaiming what they know is true because people are, you know, have altars to the unknown God. And then people like, again, some of these people

that have been in this space for a while, they've consistently, even like Dr. Frank Turrick, who was on the Lifford recently as well, like those voices that have been proclaiming and engaging with these people. And again, after all these years, I see that. has been sound and now this is what happens. I think that's what's so important is like, because I know Josh has talked in multiple sermons about how you don't have to take the person from here to all the way to salvation. It's like take them to the next step. And you kind of just see that progression in his life about each person he's interacted

with has brought him to that next step, getting him closer to salvation. Yeah. So Jan, I'm so glad you brought that up. So that's an old school vintage Pastor Steve evangelism tip that is on the money. Yeah. It's like, hey man, so his little thing is everyone is somewhere, before we go to this next Rogan clip, because it illustrates this. Everyone is somewhere between a negative 10 and a zero.

And negative 10 is the farthest away from God you can be. And then a zero is that's the moment of salvation. And his point is most Christians fail at evangelism because they think they have to get people all the way from wherever they are to zero. in one conversation. And honestly, you're like, well, man, I don't see a way to do that. So they just don't do anything. And his point is, and by the way, I'm glad you brought this up, that's my theory on why Paul does not mention the name of Jesus in this sermon

and does not quote a Bible verse in this sermon. He's essentially just going, let me get them as far as I can in the conversation that I'm in. And then you notice that afterwards they go, hey, we'll hear you more about this. So what happened? He took him from a negative 10 to a negative 8 and he's like, ah, and I left room for a future conversation. So for anybody listening with all your friends, you got to one more. And it's like, dude, I'm, you know, it's like Romans. Romans. I'd give up my spot in heaven just to see that dude, no Jesus. And your heart bleeds for it. You don't see a way to get him all the way

there. You don't have to get them all the way there. Just seize the moment to go, how can I just move the needle a little? Like maybe it's just, I'm a loving presence in their life. And they've always thought Christians were just judgmental and angry and closed off. And you love them in a moment of vulnerability and you explode a stereotype they have. Just move the needle. So that's what Paul did. And then you're looking for future conversations. So that's what's going on there. The other thing I'd say on that Rogan thing is I just want to keep strengthening the faith of Christians. You are not crazy. That's like seriously, you're not crazy for believing what you believe. is honestly, it's crazy not to.

So Frank Turrick's book, I love the title. He said, I don't have enough faith to be an atheist. And his point is, just stop and think what you're being asked to believe when somebody's like, there is no God and da-da-da-da-da. So this is the last thing I'll say, and then we can go to this next clip. John Tyson has pointed this out, that atheists are asking you to believe in at least six miracles. So if you're a Christian, by the way, what I'm getting ready to say, I keep an iPhone note, I encourage you to do this. I keep an iPhone note for like essentially airplane conversations.

You should write these six things down so that if you ever get in a conversation, you can grab these and go, hey man, this is something you should think about. So John Tyson, the six miracles atheists are asking you to believe that something came from nothing, that order came from chaos, that life came from non-life, that the personal human beings came from the impersonal, just matter, that reason came from non-reason and that morality came from matter.

So just stop and think. You're being asked to believe six incredulous miracles, oh, by the way, without any belief in a miracle worker. Yeah. So you're not crazy. Anything else you want to go to the second clip?

let's go to the second clip. All right. So let's show this. Here's this second clip. So here's what you're getting ready to see. And I think this is, this is significant. And then, so let's watch it. And then let's process this real quick.

So the dude that's talking in this next clip, if you don't know this is, his name's Wes Huff. He's like the, he's a Christian Bible scholar from Canada. We don't hold that against him. That is like, you know, he's top, that dude is on, he's a game. he's the one Rogan invited on to ask questions about the Bible and faith. And then apparently he had some behind the scenes conversations with Rogan about his faith. And watch what he says is going on in Joe's life. Joe Rogan and I have had on and off communication since then.

I can tell you for a fact that he is attending a church. And that has been a consistent thing. And so, you know, things are happening. Pause, Trinity. Where does Joe Rogan live? didn't he live in Austin? I have an idea. I think he lives in Austin, man.

I'm like 99% sure he lives in Austin. Yeah, he is. Yeah, he's in Texas. Yeah, he's in Austin. I wonder what church he goes to. Austin, that's it. Okay, I love to know that. All right, sorry, keep going.

And he's a very inquisitive individual, and I think for the better in that he's communicating with me and other people in his life who are influences that can speak into, you know, these issues, of reliability and trustworthiness and verisimilitude of something like the pages of scripture and where he should and shouldn't be looking for the information in regards to that. So I am very encouraged by the communication that I have been able to have with him and others over these last few months in this kind of crazy season that I find myself in. But we're seeing what I

don't think is an exaggeration to say somewhat of a resurgence in interest in these topics. that we've been talking about. Even the nitty gritty. We had someone who reached out to us recently at Apologetics Canada, who is probably the last Bricks and Mortar Christian bookstore that I've ever heard of.

But they said, we have people walking through our doors asking young people, teenagers saying, I want a Bible, all my friends are reading this thing. So if the Bible is, you know,

becoming popular with teenagers, then something is happening and the Lord is moving. Amen. You can cut it. Wow. Because that's the rest of that clip we just watched, right? The same one, that's right.

So there he is, man. The guys attending church. I love it. So I'm curious to hear some of you guys' theories, like, what is going on? What's happening? There's something shifting culturally. I'm curious to hear your thought. I have some thoughts about it.

I'm curious to hear yours. You guys want to go? You want us to hop in? Well, like for me, like I said, I think in our attempt to run away from God, like humanity has fallen into the absurd. And like, it reminds me of the story of Jonah when he tried to fight against God's will and go as far away as he could. Like, he ended up inside a big fish. Like, it was an absurd and ridiculous situation. And the Bible said that he was inside and he came to his senses.

Like, imagine, like, laughing at himself. Like, how did I end up here? Like, how did I get here? Like, and I think that's what's happening to the world. That inside of a big fish belly, like, in an absurd situation. saying, how do we get here with this old crazy situations going on and this crazy world? And they're asking the questions like, how did we get here? And I think that's what's making people wonder because we have gone so far away.

Well, and I think that people, you have gone so far away, but they found it lacking. Yeah. There is no joy. There's no peace. And I think that I think people are ultimately, they are on a happiness quest. They're coming to their senses. Yes, and in seeing that they can find that in Christ. So I just, hey, Trinity, I just dropped like a bunch of stuff in the drop zone.

So in a second, can we pull this up in a second and just run through them real fast? Yeah. So, yeah, so first of all, on the Rogan thing, because everybody that's listening, like every Christian, we want to have a one more. And if it doesn't know what a one more is, you need to know who's the one person in your life that's closest to you but farthest from God. At Lake Point, we're not about reaching tens of thousands. Like that happens, but that's not worried about. We're just about every person reaching one more. Jesus left the 99 to go after the one.

So I need to know who's the one more person God is going to use me to reach. So what you're seeing there with Joe that I want to point out for any Christian that's like, all right, man, how do I approach my one more is Wes has a, he has a relationship with Joe, not an argument with Joe. Yeah. That's good. Like I think that's really important to point. Very important.

He has a relationship with Joe, not an argument with Joe. And if you start noticing that your whole relationship with your one more is an argument, you're missing it. You're missing it. You need to take a hint. Like, they're not getting it. They're not receiving it. Like, just be wise and walk away from now, like in that moment. Like, don't keep pushing.

That's smart. The anger of man does not produce the righteousness God requires. Yeah, that's a whole theology behind that. Do we have that? Can you toss that stuff up there? I'm just going to run through these real quick. So if people are not aware, oh, dang, some of these I won't be able to. If you're not aware of what we're talking about as far as a resurgence, like I'm a data nerd.

So this is data that I've been aggregating. Let's keep, this is data I've been aggregating for a little while. So you're getting headlines like this. The nuns have hit a ceiling. So you've been hearing for years about the rise of the nuns, people who have, I don't have any religious affiliation. That's done. That's actually on the decline now. Go to the next one.

We're going to go to these real fast. Is Gen Z the spiritual generation? You're seeing Gen Z having a rapid rise, like a very high rise, as being more spiritual and the least likely generation to identify as atheist-ragnostic. Go to the next one.

The rise of regular church-going. We're seeing this on an uptick, and I've got to point to this here and a second. Keep going, Trinity. Let's go on the next one. Younger church-goers read the Bible more often than older church-goers. course. Like never in my lifetime would that, would that stat have been written? All right. Let's

keep going. Keep going on this. Recent growing percent of non-Christians have committed to Christ, Barna. Keep going. UK, this is a headline. The Quiet Revival. Gen Z leads a rise in church going. Here's another one. Gen Z half as likely as their parents to identify as atheists. I mean, I could literally just read these all day. Not just at Easter. This is USA Today. Gen Z is returning to Christianity. Data proves it.

Let me find my last one. I'll do this last one. This is my favorite one. No sex, no booze. We're off to church. Gen Z have found God. It's talking about a U.Gov study. So Pamela, I think what you said,

I had a spiritual mentor who said that in every generation, the devil always overplays his hand. And like, I'm just going to speak. like super blunt because I don't know how else to do it. But I think exactly what you said happened. The devil overplayed his hand and now like even lost people are looking around at the world and they're going like, y'all are nuts. So like even lost, I'm going to speak super blunt here for a second.

Like even lost dudes are sitting around at home going, well, like, I don't want my son to become a chick. And I really want my daughter to marry a dad. dude, but who's going to tell them they're supposed to do that? Seriously, like that's a real thing. And the church is like the last place in society where you can be clear about God's design for some of those things and why it's good and not get like canceled, fired, deplatformed docks, all the things.

So I think the parable, the prodigal son is happening at an, at a, at a societal scale where it's like, man, And we went off away from the father. We woke up one day, degraded, embarrassed, and in pig slop. We came to our senses. And now people are like, maybe I should go back home to the father. And I think it's happening at scale. What do you guys saying? Yeah, absolutely.

And to me, like, from the church point of view, like, it's a huge responsibility to us. Like hungry people are coming. I hope they can find, like, discipleship, like, through Bible teaching. and let's not make it like light and, you know, superficial. And I think we have that vision at late point. But I think for us is the time to wrap those people and disciple them and invest in them. And just take advantage of that hunger they're feeling right now.

It's our moment as a church. Yeah. I think we have to ask ourselves, like, are we in an X moment? Like it makes me think of Acts too. And then in the last days it shall be, God declares that I will pour out my spirit on all flesh. are we seeing God pour out his spirit on all flesh? Is that where we are? Yeah.

That's so great. It's interesting because, too, when you read the New Testament, you see, you know, the church is called to be the salt of the earth, light in the darkness, 11 that works its way through a whole lump. You know, we're called to literally go to all nations. It's not a passive, hey, well, you know, at some point it's going to work out. It's more like, no, you need to go. You need to go.

And so there's this, there's an influence of the church in the world for the blessing of the world. And then you look at culture today. I mean, you see like American Idol having like a worship night and Brandon Lake like elevation worship, you know, at a secular award show because they , you know, singing worship music and it's just they, they just happen to do amazing music. And, you know, you think of like the chosen, you know, TV, movie, like huge influence. So I mean, all those points right now, that's, that's influencing the culture. Huge. Like huge. And so like more people are interested in. So, you know, there's been a remnant of faithful Christians throughout the years as well, just consistently doing their thing by the grace of God pursuing excellent. And that's

actually like now we're seeing the results of that. Now that are people, people are ready after their dissolution and apparently like, you know, whatever. People, people were deconstructing Christianity 10 years ago. Now they're deconstructing secularism. That's it. And they're like, this actually doesn't work either. This is worse. This is really stupid. This is really bad. And so that's kind of what we're seeing right now. Dude, and this is what gives me, I'll take our hope, a little hopium, one more level. So what our senior saints who have been around a minute, what my dad and my dad's generation will often say is that that era, especially around like maybe 2018 to 2020-ish, riots,

like radical sex gender ideology, like massive upheaval. my dad was like, this is the 1960s. Like that generation is like, this is exactly what the 60s were like. But remember, I'll get emotional, remember what happened after that, is after the sexual revolution, the Jesus revolution. Because in the 70s was the greatest revival in American history since the Great Awakening's. And so 60s upheaval, 70s Jesus Revolution, Jesus movement. So my question is like, are we on the front edge of the next great awakening in our society?

Come on. Team Jesus left you. It's amazing, man. Charge the field. You know, like, I'm just looking at the background here, I'm saying there is more. Like, I think people are looking around and they're like, this can't be all there is. And like, they are questioning, is there more. And there is.

And so I just, I think that that's why we're seeing such an influx of people. people like wanting the gospel. Amen. Yeah. Well, I think people have, they're feeling that. Let's just do something real quick, you know, because there's been some, some things, mantras and sayings that like, and so let's help people make sense of some of these. So I'm going to, I'm going to share some of these like real quick, popular cultural phrases from this worldview that seems to be crumbling down by the grace of God and for the glory of God. And then like just rapid fire, you know, tell me why, biblically speaking, this is not it. Let me start with one of the most cliche things that I think has been one of the worst advice for my generation. Follow your heart.

That's what sociopaths, mass murders, Hitler, and teenagers that end up completely wrecking their life do. They followed their heart. You can follow your heart all the way to hell. That's crazy. Exactly. Yeah, the heart is deceitful about all things that beyond cure. Like, I don't know why we want to follow that. No.

Here's another one. You do you. Well, is Jesus Lord or are you? I mean, so this is like this is all, the most common idol in our culture is self. Yeah. It's self. That's why it's like all the language, self-reliance, self-esteem, self-care, self-actualization. We take selfies, not you, he's, all the stuff.

The Bible is the exact opposite. It's self-control. Deny yourself. Die to yourself. Make yourself a living sacrifice. That's cool. So you're just quite, hey man, who's Lord? Jesus or you?

Yeah. And even the secular world, like people are starting to say, well, people are more happy if they belong to something bigger than themselves. Like they're starting to realize like, oh, working for myself and get more money and be more happy is not cutting it. So people are starting to realize that. Yeah, you can do, if you're a Christian, you can't do you because you has been crucified with Christ according to Galatians, chapter 2 versus 20. And I'll just, we'll rip off little Stephen Ferdick here. You know, say whoever's in Christ is a new creation, the oldest passed away, the newest come. So his little phrase is do the new you.

There you go. Do the new you. Speer fill you, Romans 7. All right, man. Live your truth. This is so stupid. I just, honestly, you guys go ahead.

So, like, there's a huge problem with that. My truth might be very different than Pamela's truth. So there's only one truth. And Jesus is the way, the truth in life. And so we have to live according to God's truth, not make up our own, own truth, which is not truth. It's contradictory. like truth is an absolute concept.

So like if you can have one and I can have another one, then it's not the truth. You know, like it's just, it's contradictory. Yeah. You can have your truth all you want. But, you know,

your truth may be, I don't believe in gravity, but when you jump off a building, you're going to splat. Exactly. So it's, hey man, there is no your truth.

There's your truth, my truth, God's truth, and God's truth is the only one that matters. That's right. Do what makes you happy. Just do what makes you happy. Well, who's going on.

You go? I mean, Satan's going to convince you to do what makes you happy, but what makes you happy in the moment might produce a lifetime of hurt and pain, you know, afterwards. So our joy comes from obedience to God, not in our temporary pleasures. Yeah, there is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death. We are terrible. The problem with this one is we're terrible at figuring out what will actually make us happy.

So the big thing that we'll always say is like, hey man, happiness is based on happenings, but joy is based on Jesus. If I'm locating how, whether I'm up or down on the happenings around me, you're always going to be like this. But if you locate, if you build your joy on the gospel, on the reality of your, man, I am, I've been forgiven, I've been redeemed, my future is heaven, all the things. Then it doesn't matter what happens around you on the inside. I'm good, man. Let's go. Because joy comes from the Lord, and if the Lord gave it to you, the world cannot take it away. And happiness is temporary.

So we always keep chasing it. So you end up exhausted and empty and not happy at all because you're always chasing the next thing that will make you happy. That's right. This is a quote from Natasha Crane. She wrote a book called Faithfully Different. And she said, in our culture, feelings are the ultimate guide and happiness is the ultimate goal. This is not a quote from her, but this is from our conversation for the Christian Jesus. is the ultimate guide and glorifying him with your life is the ultimate goal.

This is a little trickier one. I think this is actually, it's a mixture of a, this is a little newer. Manifest your destiny. I don't even know what that means. I had to Google that. This is a newer generation. Jenna, you got some. I've got it because I have looked into this because it is such a huge.

That's all your crunchy little health friends. It's a huge thing. Well, yeah, I mean, it's there. It's there. But you know what? It's also in the church too. So I think we need to really, really dive into that. So Manifesture destiny is like saying you can shape your future through positive thinking.

You can visualize it or will have enough willpower. You can will this into existence. If you make a vision board and you put all these pictures of what you want to happen to your life, you're amazingly going to make this happen. So I think that I think what's dangerous is because if you think about it, if you think about the name it and claim it, that is essentially very, very similar. I don't know if I want to say it's the same thing. That's a good observation.

But it's saying, oh, if you believe that passage enough, if you pray enough, you're going to make this happen. And so I think, you know, we want to be people of prayer. We want to be praying. We want to believe that God is going to move, that he is going to act. When we pray for healing for people, we want that to happen. But we have to stop thinking that the power. is in our faith or our words or what we say and remembering the power relies in God and God alone. And so I think this one can be pretty.

Confusing. Yeah. Yeah, because I think that, I mean, of course, in the secular world, it gives the illusion that you're in control and you can make your own destiny. But in the church, I think it's tricky because we mix it with the word and that we can claim the promises and we can claim the blessings and we can declare it and take it for our. Well, what if that blessing is not for you? get that God is sovereign.

So if he's in the throne, not you. So like if he's the one and he doesn't have that blessing specific for you, why do we think that we can just claim it and, you know, declare it and this is what I want and what I think is best. So it's very confusing also in the church. Yes. Yeah. I mean, so that idea of manifesting your destiny, it goes along with the trusted universe idea.

It's basically like it comes from New Ageism, which is just a combination of like mysticism, spirituality, Eastern religions. And it's a whole combination. And now when you pay it with scripture, then, you know, now you're kind of putting a Christian label on it. It's not. Right. That's a, on the trusty universe thing, like, I'm just like, that's the kind of thing like, this may be, when I hear stuff like that internal, I'm like, that's so dumb. Honestly, that's my response.

But what I will say is it's not always, some people are raised around ideologies and worldviews where they just, you know, it's the air they breathe. And so it's actually not dumb. That's like they came by it. But Driscoll sometimes talking about the difference between one is. and twoism. Have you ever heard of this? Yeah. And he'll talk about, hey, and he'll talk about pantheism and penentheism are where it's oneism. It's that God and the universe are one in the same entity. And he just makes very clear. And he obviously was in a culture where you had to be more forceful making this clear. This is

not like a huge Texas thing by the grace of God. But Christians, we don't do oneism, we do twoism, that there is a creator creation distinction. And that the universe, and the creator of the universe are two separate things, not one thing. Whereas if I understand it correctly, in some strains of like Buddhism and Hinduism, it's more oneism. It's, hey, that God and the universe are really one entity. And we just have to be clear, nope, we're out on that. We're doing twoism, creator creation distinction.

Yeah. And God is in control. Like, he is on his throne. And so you can trust him. You can trust that he's sovereign and he's in control. And then it makes me think about Colossians 117, we're talking about he's holding all things together. So you can trust in that, the fact that he's holding you together. Yeah, you don't need to trust the universe.

You need to trust the creator of the universe. Right. Carlos. Man, as we land the plane, you know, obviously people are going to be encouraged. I pray to share their faith, to be bold and to continue to be patient as they continue to invest and influence the people around them, the one more. And so any last minute, you know, any tips on, hey, this is how you move towards a life of courage as you share your faith with your one more. And we'll end there.

Well, C.S. Lewis pointed out, by the way, people forget C.S. Lewis fought in World War I. So, like, sometimes people think about C.S. Louis is like a nerdy bookish dude. He fought in World War I. That was, if you know anything about World War I, if I had to pick one war in human history not to fight in, it'd probably be World War I. like bayonets and trench warfare, not great. He points out that a lot of times people will misdefine courage. I think this is really important. Some people will think that courage is the absence of fear. And his point is like, no, like if you have no fear, you don't even need courage.

Courage is the decision to act in the face of your fear. So if somebody's like, man, how do I grow this? Courage is like a muscle. It only grows when it's exercised. So don't get what some Christians will do is they be like, oh man, I have fear, that means I don't have courage, or I have fear, that means I don't have faith. And faith is not the absence of fear. Faith is the willingness and decision to act in the face of your fear. So it doesn't eliminate fear, it overrides it. So what I would say to

a Christian is like, man, how do I, you know, how do I grow in courage? I would say, just do it scared, man. What's the thing that you're scared to do, that you're uncomfortable having not done for the purposes of God. Make a decision to do it and do it scared. And you're going to notice that that muscle grows. Yeah. I was going to say, we need to invite the Holy Spirit into our lives every day. Like you're going to walk into a school meeting and there's going to be like people that

don't believe in Jesus. It's like, Holy Spirit, be with me. Like, make me sensitive to the opportunities that you're going to present to me and give me the words when I don't have them. Like, we need to be aware that the Holy Spirit is the one that is going to put the power in us, the word in our mouths, like it's not from your intelligence of your own wisdom. It's the Holy Spirit. So we need to be very aware and constantly asking for help.

Like, you're going to have a conversation. And you feel that when it starts to get personal, the person is opening up and you're like, this is getting like very close to sharing the gospel right there, praying your, you know, inside of you. And just the Holy Spirit just help me, help me right now. And he's going to show up for you. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And I think it's just kind of like to live it as Christ. So it's like let like Christ is in you. And so I think is you are in daily relationship with people and they're seeing you walk through life and how you handle things and how you love them and care for them in a way that is very different from the world. It gives you a natural opportunity to share. There you go. Yeah. I mean to add on to what you guys are saying, you know, pray for power. Like, you know, you said there is more. You can, there is more power. And, you know, when it comes to sharing your faith with your one more, you can try to change their mind, but only Jesus can change their soul.

And so that's a supernatural thing. You're not going to do that with an argument. You need that, you need power for that. And so there is more. Amen. There you go. That's a good way then. Can I pray?

Yeah. Heavenly Father, thank you so much for today. Thank you so much for your word. Thank you because we read the end of the book. And Jesus, you win. And we serve and we work out of a victory. And so Lord, I pray that you may fill us with your Holy Spirit. I pray that you may fill with your Holy Spirit those that are joining on the podcast,

that we may be empowered by your grace to be bold as we share Christ, as we are light in the middle of darkness and salt where there is need. And so Jesus, I pray that you may continue to work through us, speak through us, that we may glorify you in everything we do, that you may use us to bring blessing to those around us. As we continue to share who you are to the people around us that perhaps have an unknown God, that we may be willing to be used by you so that you may reveal yourself to them. We pray that your kingdom, Jesus may come and that your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

Have your way, and we pray all this in your name, Jesus Christ. Amen, amen, amen. Thanks for tuning in to live free with Pastor Josh Howerton. We pray today's episode helped you take a step forward in life, culture, and faith as you live free in Christ. If it encouraged you, be sure to rate, review, and share the podcast. and don't forget to subscribe so you'll never miss an episode. Join us for Lake Point Church online every weekend and find more resources at lakepoint.church slash live free. We'll see you next time.