Live Free with Josh Howerton - How Far Is TOO FAR in Christian Dating?! | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Episode Date: August 25, 2025

⚠️ Mature content warning: Topics include sex, dating, and marriage—best for adult listeners. In this week's episode of LIVE FREE, Carlos Erazo sits down with Pastor Josh and Jana Howerton for a real, wisdom-packed conversation on dating, singleness, and sexual sin. While the world often trains us for divorce, this episode trains you for a godly marriage. From navigating boundaries in dating to wrestling with lust, and pursuing a Christ-centered marriage, you'll hear biblical insight, honest stories, and practical advice rooted in the Song of Solomon. 👍 Like, Comment, & Subscribe for more life-changing podcasts! 🔔 Turn on notifications so you never miss an update!   📝 SHOW NOTES Subscribe now to receive the show notes directly in your inbox with each new episode. These notes are filled with key insights and scripture to help you reflect and grow deeper in your faith – https://lakepointe.church/shownotes    👇 DON’T MISS OUT! 21 Days of Prayer has started. Click the link to access all the daily devotionals! https://lakepointe.church/21days Night of Prayer and Worship is the most important night of the year. Check out all the details here: https://lakepointe.church/events/night-of-prayer-and-worship/  Ready to connect to community and a life-giving discipleship experience?  Register for ROOTED here: https://lakepointe.church/rooted/  God can redeem your relationship. Click the link to check out our marriage resources https://lakepointe.church/marriage/   ⛪ ABOUT LAKEPOINTE CHURCH:We believe that Lakepointe is a movement for all people to Know God, Find Freedom, Discover their Calling, and Make a Difference. With 7 DFW locations and programs for all ages, there's something for everyone.  🤝 Support this ministry and help us reach more people with the Gospel: https://lakepointe.church/give    STAY CONNECTED:🌐 Website: https://lakepointe.church/👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lpconnect/📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lpconnect 🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lakepointechurch   🎧 LISTEN ON THE GO! ▶️ Live Free on Spotify / https://open.spotify.com/show/353ryGdZNlebaiqkCcy3Yc▶️ Live Free on Apple Podcasts / https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-free-with-josh-howerton/id1669321198

Welcome to Live Free with Pastor Josh Howardton. We're so glad you're here. Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know Jesus, live free, and make a difference with their lives. And this weekly podcast is all about helping you do just that. Each episode is a deep dive into the Word of God, tackling life, culture, and faith with truth and clarity so you can be equipped to live free in Christ.

Thanks for tuning in. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode and follow us on all our social platforms to stay connected to everything happening with Live Free. Now, let's dive into today's episode. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Live Free podcast. My name is Carlos Arrasso, and I'm here with Pastor Josh and Janet Howard. Janet's going to break the internet again. Let's go.

I mean, that happened last week. Hey, listen, if for real at Jana, you went like mega viral. It wasn't me. Yeah, really actually was you. It actually was. I'm really glad. Hopefully it was helpful to a lot of people. Listen, man. Listen, we all know what it was. Janet told all the wives to sleep with our husbands more often.

And then every husband in America was like sending it to his family. His wife. Not the family. He didn't send it to the kids. Hey, for real, I'll just, can we celebrate the? We hit some milestones this week. That's right. So go ahead and toss the number five one up.

I mean, listen, man, look at it. We hit number five. Most downloaded podcast on religion and spirituality. Yes. I know, man. So look, us right next to Tara Lee Cobble. Shout out. Wow.

Shout out, Terry Lee Cobble. I'm literally doing the Bible recap through the Bible in a year right now. Yeah. It's really great. And not just number five in religion and spirituality, but also top 200 on all categories. Oh, yeah. So I want to point this out. So we, I guess somebody sent this to me because I don't mess with this stuff.

We hit 174 on, what's that mean, on all categories? All categories, yeah. So that's like of all podcasts. That's right. So literally like religion, politics, all the things. So we hit 174, but, you know, there's a reason that that's circled with pointing to it. Because, you know, it's always, always been a life goal of mine to defeat the New York Times. Let's go.

And the live free podcast passed the New York Times in total downloads. That's awesome. Yeah, let's go, man. Honestly, though, shout it to everybody that's liking, subscribing, sharing. I mean, this obviously helps us commenting on YouTube. We'd love to hear from you. This is episode, by the way. Oh, it's really.

And coming up in this episode, we're going to talk about different things, but we're going to go dating, marriage. We're going to be answering your questions from Instagram. Single people are asking, I just want to learn how to find a spouse. And we're going to get really practical. People are asking, somebody asks, does biblical headship and submission apply? at all in dating. If men develop intimacy through sex, how do you develop intimacy prior to marriage? And we will be addressing a viral video recently asking the question, do men need sex?

Okay, no, I do just want to say this. If you're not figuring this out, probably the entire Song of Solomon Live Free series will be at least PG-11. So we would probably not to the same degree as last week, but we will hit, issues of, you know, intimacy and sexuality and marriage. So heads up. We always want to put the ball in the parents' hands, heads up on that, um, et cetera, et cetera. Thank you to the 2000 plus people that have already subscribed and downloaded the show notes. Wow. That's great. So for people that are maybe new to the podcast, these, this is a document you can download on each episode where

we will include all key takeaways, all the wisdom from Pastor Josh and Jana, um, main highlights, additional content and discussion questions for you to take them to your life group and continue to deepen your discipleship together. Why? Because discipleship happened in relationships. And your next step after this podcast is community. Specifically, by the way, Ruted Launch was this week at like point. Literally thousands of people took the step into Ruted. If you don't know, rooted is. That's like our 10 week discipleship experience. It's like it's boot camp for team Jesus. It's something that every single Christian needs to do at least once in their life. It's like we teach people the 10, it's actually about 10, 7 to 10 rhythms of like,

here's how you grow as a disciple for the rest of your life. And me and Jan are leading a root of group. It's going to be awesome. It's a bunch of young adults in our group. I know. We're like leading a young adult root a group. So we'll talk about dating with all them in our group. Dating, man.

It'll be great. There is. So show notes, by the way, just the text where people are like, oh, how do we get the show notes? text notes to 20411 or go to lakepoint. That church slash show notes. Shout out to Root It. Everybody joining Rootid as well. I think we have over a thousand.

I thought I heard. We told them out. People joining Rootett. Oh, way more than that. Way more than that. Dude, we had before this weekend, I haven't gotten the numbers yet from this weekend. Before this weekend's push,

we had, I think, 1,100 already registered. Because it's like 10 bucks for the book. And by the way, if anybody is a Lake Point person, and I really mean this, if the $10 is a hardship for you, we'll help you. But it's just $10 for the route. But 1100 people had registered and bought the book. So like, that was before this weekend. Yes.

So it's going to be a lot more than that. Man, I want to give a shout out as well. Jana actually worked really hard on this devotional guide for the 21. Here, I'm going to. Don't laugh. You did. 21 days of her. I did. I wasn't the only one though. There are other writers. There's some other, you know, contributors that are not as good as Jenna, I might say. And I love it. Because I honestly, I am one of them.

I am one of them. Well, you know, we put the best at the beginning. Then, you know, but yeah, man, I love it because people are, this is actually really helpful. So what that is, if anybody did know, we're devoting ourselves as a church to 21 consecutive days of prayer and devotion. together as a church leading up to something we call encounter. It's basically camp for adults. It's like the last night of camp for adults. We do it every year. And dude, honestly, I started doing this because honestly, I did because I need it. Where it's like, for some reason, every summer I get out of my rhythms.

And, you know, my heart just is prone to wander, Lord, I feel it. And it's just really helpful for me to like, okay, man, the old is gone, the new has come, let's refresh and get after it with the Lord. So entire church is doing these 21 days of devotions that Jana and some of the leaders from our church wrote It's going to be awesome. Yeah. It's exciting.

Let's talk. Love life. Marriage sex dating, Song of Solomon. Week three. Dating both before marriage, finding a spouse and in marriage, all the things. Pastor Josh, I have a question. What did you make the sermon? I will allow it.

I said, I'll allow it. What's that from? What's that from? Wait. I don't remember. I know it. I'll allow it. I'll allow it.

I don't know. That's Michael Scott. Isn't it? Isn't it? I don't know. I've always... It's from a show or a movie. You say it a lot.

I'll allow it. But I don't remember what it was from. We should rather me. It's from something. I don't know. I'll find out. I think it's Michael Scott. I'll find out.

All right. Do you want me to talk about what did making a sermon while you're looking? Yes. You'd rock that. Yeah. And then I'm going to talk about what did making a sermon. Honestly, this sermon was like kind of verse, what are you laughing at? No, I think I found it.

It's a, it might be Brooklyn Nine Nine. Do you guys watch that? I've never seen Brooklyn Nine. But maybe you're right. Maybe it's also the office. I think it's Michael Scott. This week, so I'm only going to give us one thing because this week, when you're preaching through poetic passages, there's not as much like, what did you make it into this?

Like when I'm preaching through like Ephesians, there's like all these theological themes. And when, you know, when there's like eight verses of them describing their, you know, boyfriend looking like a stallion. There's a little less to... What a great way to be described. Exactly. Janip, yeah, I have one of us. Look at my stallion.

Amen. But here's what... I did learn this this week. All right, so later in Song of Solomon, you find out it's a, you know, it's the King Solomon, falls in love. Later, we learn she's a Shunamite woman. Shunum was a region in the Jesreal Valley, I think, of Israel. Dude, here's interesting.

I did not know this still this week. This is like a little Bible conspiracy theory. There are a lot of people who think the Shunamite woman is Abashag. Abashag the Shunamite. Did you know this? Yes, I know what you're doing. I should ask my wife.

Sorry. Don't apologize. I should ask me. I should ask you. Abishag the Shunamite. So if you get a First Kings one, at the end of his life, David is getting really old,

and he's really cold all the time. So he summons, he is assigned a young woman named in First Kings, one, Abbasag the Shunamite to, it says to lie with him to keep him warm. And it also specifies that she didn't like lie with him sexually, like just to keep his body temperature up in the winter. So what makes people speculate that this, she actually could have been the Shunamite woman, is Adonijah, who was another, like, a rival of David's.

So David dies. Then Adonijah asks Bathsheba, David's wife, if he can have Abashag as his wife, like, hey, can Solomon give me Abashag? Solomon loses his mind. and because he sort of interprets the request for Abashag poorly, and Solomon ends up killing Abashag. So some people think part of the reason Solomon wigged out on Adonijah and literally killed him when he requested Abashag the Shunamite

is because Solomon was falling in love with her and that she is the woman that he ends up writing Song of Solomon about, because again, I think it's Song of Solomon for its specific. she was a schutamite woman. So there's your little Bible conspiracy theory. Okay. Could have been Abashag. I always liked those details.

I know. Sounds like this is going to be like a TV show at some point. You know, these all these biblical TV shows coming out? Bachelor, you know, thing going on here. I love is blind. Dude, Sean Lowe reached out to us on, speaking of Bachelor. Oh, Sean Lowe shot us an encouraging DM about some of our content. Come on, man.

I know, man. We got Sean Lowe. It's very fitting with our sermon series right now. Shout out, Sean Lowe. If you listen, man, we need to get you on to the Live Free Pod during Song of Solomon. I like it. You've lived this, brother. Well, speaking of Bachelor, there's a lot of...

Good transition. There's a lot of bachelors out there, and a lot of single people asking, man, that's great. I mean, obviously, we're going dating, marriage. We just want to help some people, man, how do you find a spouse at the end of the day? I'm a Christian. Somebody might say, I'm single, I'm a Christian. They're looking for a... you know, a biblical marriage.

Let's start with the men. Pastor Josh, what do men need to hear about dating while single? Okay, let me say a few things. And then we're going to apply this to married people. So let me just real quick say this. If you are a married man and you're going, oh, they're going to talk about dating. I'm already married. This is not for me.

My brother, I have just determined what is wrong with your marriage. I just figured out what's wrong with your marriage. Oh, man, they're talking about dating. I'm already married. That's not for me. I can solve all your problems right here. So just stay buckled in. But let me say a few things to like younger,

to single men, they're looking for spouses. Jana's going to say a few things to ladies, and I'm sure there's cross application. A few things I'd say to the guys is, man, the Bible doesn't say anything about dating, but it says everything about deciding. Really what dating is, is dating is a process by which you do.

decide who it is that you want to become one with. Now, the reason I say that is, so just notice, and I hit this a little bit in the message this week in a couple of the services, notice in Song of Solomon, this passage is about them dating. That's what we would call it in 21st century of America. They call it something else. But the middle of chapter two through the middle of chapter three

is this essentially courtship process, but notice that it leads to a wedding. So one thing I want to point out is that dating should not be a status. It should be a process. So here's what we don't do. Like a young godly man who has honor in his heart and wants to walk in integrity. What he shouldn't do is date just to date. Like, oh, I just like dating. It's a, it's a status I like. I just like. I just like. No, no, because we're called to love your neighbor as yourself and to honor one another. What you want to do for a young godly man is the only reason that you're dating. is with an intent to move towards marriage.

That's the only reason. I will say, you know, if somebody asks, like, man, how old should I be before I start dating? Personal opinion, I don't think you should start dating until you are within a reasonable chip shot of, man, I could actually start moving towards marriage. Here's why I say that. Some people may think, oh, that's really stupid.

Well, here's what I would say, your perspective on this becomes really clear when you become a dad with a daughter. Because I just think about this. If somebody walks up to me and Jana and they're talking about Eliana, and a young man walked up to us, a middle schooler, and he was like, hey, Pastor Josh, hey, I would like to have a whole bunch of your daughter's time, and I'm probably going to get a whole bunch of your daughter's heart and emotions. And, hey, you know, in a day, now, hopefully, God willing, we raised the 10.

type of kids who don't do this. But and, you know, I might end up putting her in a position to be tempted to give me, you know, parts of her body and that kind of thing to cross some boundaries. But I have absolutely zero intention of ever ending up with her. Would that be okay with you? How about no? You know, it's like, it's dad. I'm like, how about no, it's not?

So I do think, one, let's remember that. you are dating with an intent to decide on a spouse. So don't play with girls' emotions. Don't just date, just a date. Hey man, your man's heart might be able to handle that in a way that a feminine heart can't. Have some honor. Number one.

Number two, I'll move through these other ones just a lot quicker. Sorry. Go ahead. I also think that applies to girls too. I mean, because there are a lot of girls that kind of just, they'll do the same thing. So I think that is applicable for both people. 100%.

100%. For the man, I do think that the guys should be the one to ask, to make the ask. You'll notice in Song of Solomon, she puts herself in a position to be pursued and he does the pursuing. This is, you know, one of the questions we're going to answer later that people had from last week's pod was, hey, to headship and submission apply and dating. I'll just go ahead and kind of tip my hat. No, they don't, but you're investigating. So it's not, it's not applicating, but you are investigating. So what the guy wants to do is demonstrate that he's the type of person that can initiate and lead in a relationship.

That's why, in general, hey, it's on you, young man to do the asking. you know, because that's a leadership function and you're applying for the job of a leader of her and her family. So practice like you want to play, you know, in that regard. Can I ask you a question about that? Please. If there's a single lady that maybe has a more, you know, stronger personality, let me just put it that way. And she's like, man, but honestly, like no guy ever comes to me. And maybe I have some friends that maybe there's something that could happen there about if I don't say anything or if I don't initiate or an If I don't pursue, that's probably never going to happen.

Yes, no, good, bad. Anytime he's asking a question about a girl, I'm going to look right at you. I mean, I think, like, you know, Josh mentioned earlier, like, put yourself just like the lady in Song of Solomon, like, in a position to where, you know, maybe you are where he's at. But I don't, I just, ooh, I don't know. I don't. I hear you saying, Jenna, there's a little bit of a red flag there.

one in the sense of like why isn't the guy taking responsibility to initiate. I do think, I mean, I think that's part. So here's what I would say on that. Like with, I want to, I want to be, I want to speak where the Bible speaks and remain silent where the Bible remains silent. So I don't want to make rules the Bible doesn't make. The Bible does not have a rule. It is wrong for a girl to ask a guy on a date. There's not a rule there.

But what I will say is if you are in. a dating relationship with a guy and you, the girl, are really the initiator and the leader, you're practicing the opposite way that the marriage is supposed to play, and it's out of order. So it's like, I would just say, like, that's not what you're looking for. I think what I would encourage that young woman to do is put yourself in a position to be pursued. send, I mean, throughout Song of Solomon, and she is sending some real clear signals. She's not passive.

She's not passive. Like, this dude knows she's looking for an initiation. That's great. And that's a win. Do that. That's great. All right, let me keep going. So for the young men, you're the asker.

You know, what I would say is be clear. For young men, be clear. So don't do this. Don't walk up to a girl and be like, hey, do you want chill sometime? Hey, you want to hang out? Don't do the stupid thing and text her at 10 p.m. You up?

You know, I don't know. Don't do the, don't slide into the DMs. Like, be a man and be clear. Because here's what, and Janet, maybe you could add color to this. But it's like if a single guy walks up to a single girl and he goes, hey, do you want to hang out sometime? She doesn't know what that means.

Yeah. So now she's confused. Like, be a man with some assertive. and clarity and use the word date. Yes. Because now she knows, oh, that's what he wants. Yeah, just say what you mean. Because it's like now we have all these new words, like situation ships and I don't even

know everything that's being said. It's just, it's like, are you dating? That needs to be very clear. Clarity is kindness. So do that. That's right. That's right. So be clear.

And I will say like, and maybe I'm stepping it. to Janice territory here, but the reason that sometimes young men don't do that is everybody's afraid of rejection. That's a normal human emotion. And I'll just be really honest. Like a lot of times younger guys, the reason they don't do that in college or whenever is here, I'll just, for the ladies, single ladies who are listening, very honestly, what he's afraid of is not just that you're going to reject him, he's going to be embarrassed, but that she's going to tell all her friends that you asked her and she rejected you and then all her friends are going to laugh at him. And very frankly, like for young ladies, like don't do that.

Like, actually, it is an honorable thing that he had the courage and he thought so highly of you that he asked you on a date. Like, I would just kind of say, like, is your character so low that you're going to mock someone who dignified you by like, so I would just say to the young ladies like, hey, be gentle. What I would say to younger guys when they ask, I'll just like, this is what I did in college. if I asked a girl on a date, I would give her an out so that she didn't feel weird. Like I would be like, hey, I would love to take you out.

You want to go on a coffee date sometime. I'm thinking next Friday, but hey, totally understand if you're busy. That's good. And that's just, I'm trying to make it comfortable for her. I was. I'm not doing that anymore. I'm not doing that anymore. But I do think that's just a little hack.

Give her an out is real helpful. I think that's a good idea. And then, like, well, sorry, maybe we're still kind of on the guys. But I would say, like, if you know, there's just, there's no chance. It's just not going to happen between you and you want to say no. But just doing it a very kind and, you know, loving way. And you don't need to go and tell all your friends about it and laugh and make a big joke about it because it's not. It's not.

It's not. It shouldn't post it on social media. That's what you say. Absolutely not. Definitely not. A couple of things I'd say just real quick is like, and I'm trying to put the cookies in the bottom shelf for our young adult guys or whatever. Like, first date, Jan, I want to know if you agree with this. First date, like, keep it chill, don't go like crazy.

Oh, yeah. Like, don't like, let's go to the symphony and get dressed up and then hit albernese or, you know, like, dude, keep it chill. Yeah. Like, or else she's going to be like, bro, this is a lot. This is a lot. And then how. Or expect that in the future. Like every day.

He said an expectation is unrealistic. I'd say keep it chill and then choose a first date where an actual conversation can happen. So like don't take her to Avengers three. You know, it's like, honestly, movies are a terrible first date because you want to get a talk and know each other. And then last thing, and then I'll turn it over to you, Jana, is, for the love of Jesus, if at the end of the date, you, the guy, you're not feeling it. That's okay. That's okay.

For the love of God, don't end the date by saying something like, I had a blast. Let's do this again. I'll call you. Because it's like you kind of want to do that to, you know, it feels awkward if you don't. But man, A, you're lying to her. you're putting her in a position, you know, to have unmet expectations and you're just playing with somebody's heart. So that goes back to the song of Solomon Command. Do not arouse her awake and love before it so desires. Now, Jan, what would you say to the young ladies?

Yeah, I would say spend time like growing into the type of person, the type of person you're looking for is looking for. I think I said that right. Good job, Janet. But like, so like, yeah, just be like spend time like growing yourself like start learning about marriage now like people you look up to women who can mentor you like disciple you you can learn to learn from like just the tightest two thing learn what you can now so you can start to apply it later um I would say you know modesty does matter and think about that think about how you dress on a daily basis think about how you are dressing on dates I say something about there real quick Yes.

So that's that thing from last week. You fish with junk bait. You can catch junk fish. Yeah. So like I would just, first of all, of course, you want to try to be attractive. Obviously. You're not saying don't try to be attractive. I think that's a good thing to, you know, to try to look nice.

Of course. There's the whole thing in this passage of he comes to take her on the date and he's like, hey, I'm standing at the window, peering through the blinds. And it's not talking about a peeping Tom. is in the Hebrew, the commentators literally say she's taking a long time to get ready. The implication is she's trying really hard to be attractive for him. That's a win. You should do that.

By the way, you should do that before marriage and during marriage. So we'll talk about that later. But, dang it, what was the other thing I was going to say? Oh, the modesty thing. Yeah. Modesty thing. So I'll just be super honest. I knew when, in college, like I knew I was going to be a pastor someday.

I was looking for somebody who could join me in my calling as a helper in that calling. So when I was in college, literally, if I saw a girl that dressed shady, I was like, I'm out. And that's not like, oh, look, Josh is really righteous. No, like, honestly, just a very, I'm a very practical person. No, no, like, I want to be a pastor someday. I'm going to need to have a woman that sets a standard of righteousness. So whenever I saw that, I was like, I'm out. I'm not interested at all.

and what for young women, for godly men, you know, may catch you off guard. There are more godly men that think that way than you might think. Anyway, I interrupted. No, well, I think you were also starting, weren't you starting to say, and then you jumped into that about fishing in the right ponds? Talk about it. Okay. So, you know, we had a really good question. And so I'm going to go ahead and bring that question in here.

You want to toss it on a screen? Do we got it? But we were asking. question was it? The only creepy. Oh, only, yeah, yeah. Oh, this is good. Yeah. So someone sent us a message that said, only creepy men hit on me. Good men don't seem to notice. What can I do to change? And first off, I just want to say, I'm so proud of you. Like, that is just mature question. Mature is very self-aware. You're like seeing like, oh, there's a problem here. Now, not only like that, I'm not going to be satisfied that with that. I want to know how to fix it because I don't want that to stay the same. So I think that's

great. So it's kind of, it goes back to just saying is like you want to be fishing in the right ponds. So are you still, where are you hanging out right now? Like, where are you going? Like, are you still hanging out at the places that you were before you became a Christian? You need to go to where good men are, where godly men are, men who love Jesus. So I would say, start doing that and, you know, you grow in Christ. Spend this time growing, maturing. The Holy Spirit is, he is very clear and kind. And he, when you ask like, hey, is there something that I need to grow in? Like, help take the blinders off.

Help me see. Ask a trusted friend or mentor. Ask God just to reveal those areas to you that you need to grow in. And then follow hard after Jesus and see who is running right next to you is what I would say. Totally agree. You know, the right pawns. That's like, hey, find a good church. it is totally okay for you to intentionally look for a church that has a strong number of single people.

That's not weird. That's not wrong. Like you're trying to pursue the Lord's will for your life and that. That's totally okay. Yeah. That's great. Oh, the other thing I would say is, honestly, the way, we've mentioned this, the way me and Janem met is a godly couple set us up on a blind date. Totally okay. For you to like literally go. to godly people in your church and just be like, hey, I'm a shoot you really straight. I want to be married someday. If you guys come across a young man that you think would be a good match for me,

I want you to let me know. If you ever get a chance to set us up, I'm in. Like, that's okay. Yeah. And, I mean, you don't even have to go to them. Like, if somebody has come to you, because that was our situation, like we didn't ask Jeff and Marybeth for that.

But they just, you know, they saw it like, okay, we were both at the end of college. not dating anybody and they, you know, they just, they saw that opportunity there. And so they came to us about it, about meeting each other. And it's the best decision we've ever made. On the, can I say one last thing? Okay. So different thing or?

That's on the single thing. I do have one thing, if that's okay, just to add to, just to highlight what you guys are saying. I think that honestly, because we live in such a hyper individualistic culture, we think, think that it's up to me alone if you're single to find and find the right person and you know but if you read the book of Sonic Solomon's there's three voices in the book right and so there's obviously the man there's a woman and then there's a third voice who is it friends there's a friend's right and so there's a third voice and that's very intentional like basically what you guys

were saying you guys had a third voice in your relationship that was actually a blessing to you and so I think that's honestly even for people that are wrestling man, you know, I have friends and I'm not sure what to do. Go find somebody that could potentially help you and speak into your life that will be a blessing to you. I'll say two more things to young, to single people. One, make sure you don't have unrealistic expectations. Yeah. So like, did we ever find one of those little TikTok videos? That's fine. So there was this TikTok trend. What was the, there was a huge TikTok trend that was like, I'm looking for a man in finance. Trust fund. Six five.

Blue eyes. It was like the kind of thing. And it was like a technobetus. Dude. Very catchy. Looking for a man in five. I'm not going to. But dude, literally.

So it went like insane viral. And then like I checked the little comments. And it was like every woman in America was like, yeah. And then dude, I saw this a response video where somebody literally had done the math. Okay. How many men in America are single, six, five, have a trust fund, blue eyes and they're in finance. There's 300 million people in America

and the estimate was there might be two. That's hilarious. So honestly, dude, can I just point this out? The Book of Song of Solomon is a story of a king that ends up marrying a farm girl with a country girl with a farmer's tan, a shunamite woman. Very frankly, I bet if you had asked him before he started dating this girl,

make your ideal list. He was probably not looking for a peasant girl out in the fields. Shunamite woman, you know, all this stuff. That probably was not on his list. There wouldn't have been a TikTok trend. Like, Farmer's tan. Shunamite woman. I'm looking for a slave girl.

You know, it's probably like not on the list. So, man, remember you're falling in love primarily with character and friendship. And yeah, and you do need to be attracted, but attraction grows. So make sure you have, you don't have unrealistic expectations. The number of little TikTok videos I'll see is like, it's like these little man on the street interviews where a dude will go up to like these naive college girls and they'll be like, hey, what are your standards for a guy you'll date?

And like they'll shove a camera in the girl's face. And it's like every time, they're like, oh, he's got, how tall is he got to be? Oh, minimum six, four. Okay. You know, how much does he need to make? Oh, nothing lower than 200K. You know, and then, yeah. So, and then they'll go, because dude, I think a lot of younger single people, they don't know how the world works. So then at the end of the video, the guy has this little app that goes through the data and he'll go, okay, here's the percentage of men that you'd be willing to date. 0.004%. And they're like their mind is blown. Yeah. So like, hey, let's have realistic expectations. Can I finish by saying something like 100 yards over the politically correct line? Please.

Okay. This is, let me explain something. Okay. In general, what data shows is that men are looking for women they find physically attractive. So men are looking for hot girls and women are looking for rich guys. That's like the stereotype, right? Yeah. You did not get that when we got married.

But I'm just saying like in general, that's a stereotype. And in general, that stereotype is actually true, like literally data shows that the more earning potential a guy has, the more attractive he is to women. And the more physically beautiful a woman is, very frequently, the more desire. That's what she is for a man. But what's interesting is the opposite is not as much true. I wish I had the screenshot. Data shows like a woman that's like, I'm at a girl boss. I want to be CEO someday that actually frequently that lessens her attractiveness in the eyes of, okay, well, this is the super un-PC thing.

That goes back to creational design. So let me explain something really quick. Why do men, why is it that men are looking for attractive women? Well, 1 Corinthians 117 says that man is the glory of God, but it says that woman is the glory of man. In other words, the crowning pinnacle of all creation is woman. It's like God went over humanity with a high gloss finish when he got to the woman. When God creates the woman in the book of Genesis, that's the only time he goes, that's very good. So honestly, dude, like men, they just,

Wayne is good looking as girls. It's just like literally creation. Like, I don't know, there's hair everywhere and lumpy and I don't know, it's just all the, it looks very mechanical. I don't know. Made for fighting wars and swinging hammers. But then, this is interesting.

This is the super un-PC thing. First Corinthians 11, 8, 9 points out, It says man did not, man was not created from woman, but woman was created for man. Wait, let me read it. For man did not come from woman, but woman for man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man. Now, this is the un-PC part. Adam was not created for Eve.

Eve was created for Adam. Adam was put in the garden to work it and to keep it. Adam was created for calling. Eve was created for Adam. So that's super un-PC, like, but that's what the Bible says. So now, let's take this down into dating. I'm going to talk to young men, okay, I'm just talking to men. What you need to do is you need to get yourself a calling, a career aspiration.

You need to get yourself like something, you've got vision for your life. Like women in general are looking for a man whose spirit is, I'm going someone. I'm accomplishing something. My life is going to be about something that matters. And women are attracted to that. I'm talking to your young single guys. You need to know this. They're attracted to that.

Why? Because literally that's how creation happened. Adam was created for a calling. And then Eve was created to see Adam and the calling he was pursuing and be attracted to that. So for young men, what I would say is, hey, bro, get yourself a career, a vocation. a calling, some goals in your life, be moving in that direction.

Start running as fast as you can towards those things. And then in football terms, put your head on a swivel while you're running down the field and then start looking at what girls are moving in your direction. Will you smiling that over there? That's good. Yeah, sound right?

Did you guys, did you share that, Josh, when you guys were kind of getting to know each other? Hey, you said you had a pretty strong conviction that you were going to into ministry. And is that something that you guys did? Oh, that's, I mean, oh, dude. Yeah, I mean, but when we met, you know, I was speaking to a lot of youth events. I knew from the very beginning, I want to start a church someday.

Yeah. And our hearts were already in alignment because even before I met Josh, so when, like last week, we talked about how, like, I didn't end up going on with my master's in speech therapy because it was already at that point in time. like God had called me to ministry too. So I hadn't met Josh yet, but I knew that I was going to be going down a different path. And so when we met, it was just our hearts were already in a line with the same thing. We had same vision for our future. And I mean, we didn't know how God was exactly going to intertwine that and work that out. But we were heading in the same direction.

So same page. That's great. Yeah, I hear you're saying if you're a man, find a calling or have a sense of it, at least. you don't have to have it all figured out, but have a sense of it. And then you need to make sure that whoever you end up with, hey, you guys are going in the same direction. Yeah. Not just, yes, not just make sure.

What I'm saying is a man that's moving in a direction becomes attractive to single women. Because that's how God created the world. There you go. That single people, let's talk marriage. Let's just flip it. Great. Dating inside of marriage, you started saying, hey, gentlemen that are married, this might be something that you need to be paying more attention to.

Josh, what would you say to the married men? Yeah, so let me, I got some of this in most of the services, but this is really important. So, and we'll be very raw here. One, when a man dates his wife, first of all, that's the pattern of Song of Solomon. The pursuit doesn't stop when the marriage happens. The pursuit continues. So it's like you want to have a happy marriage, like invest in it. And I almost feel like, not that you weren't pursuing when we were dating, but I almost feel like, I don't know, it's even more now.

Yeah. I'm glad to hear that. Yeah. Thank you. So I say a few things. I'm just going to be real practical. Like, why do you want to do this? One, because the grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence, the grass is greener where you water it.

Definitely. I think a lot of guys, you know, the stereotype is guys get into their 50s. They get bored with their, this is worldly. They get bored with their wife. They start looking over the fence. They have an affair. I bet it'd be more fun over there. Oh, let me trade her in for a younger model, which is a really worldly mentality that's

going to result in brokenness and sadness and loneliness. Hey, the grass eaten greener on the side of fence, grass greener where you water it. What you want to do, man of God, is you want to come. craft a marriage where you're going to be so happy and have so much fun being 80 sitting in a rocking chair holding hands with grandkids and great grandkids running around your backyard. Hey man, that vast happiness. I'll just say this. Like if good looking people having hot sex equal to good marriage, all the best marriages would be in Hollywood. Hello. Not happening. Not happening. That's not what makes.

a great marriage. Okay. Number two is, hey man, when you, what I would say like, and this is a little rough, date your wife or somebody else may.

Like, this is how you affair proof your marriage. I'll be honest, like, and I think I can say this with total integrity. If an, A, if another man ever tried to date or,

you know, flirt with jam, whatever it is, um, A, you know, I'd be doing prison ministry from the inside. Starting a campus inside a prison? Yeah, we'd be starting the correctional facility campus. But B, you know, and Jana, you are free to disagree with me later and you can tell me.

But I think I can say with all integrity, there is no man anywhere that would treat Jana better than I date Jana. I absolutely agree. And I feel like I can say it with absolute integrity, like no one anywhere. would do that. And Janow has her integrity, she would never step outside of a marriage. But like in one sense, what you're doing there

is you're a fairproofing your marriage. Yeah, that's good. Good word. The other thing, let me just do these real quick. Especially for dads with daughters, you're not just affairproofing your marriage, you're loser-proofing your daughter.

So I think every dad needs to understand that your kids are watching you, date your wife, how you treat your wife is setting the minimum standard and expectations that your daughter is going to look for in every guy. So if you are a loser and you treat your wife like a loser, you are now setting your daughter up to be willing to date losers. But if your daughter, if our daughters grow up seeing Dad takes Mom out or they find a way to get a

date every week and Dad takes a shower with soap and water and Dad, you know, he uses the gift cards to take Mommy special places and he gets mommy flowers and he writes mommy post-it notes. Like I'll get like Eliana has literally said before about little little middle school boys who joked that they liked her. And I'll be like, what about you? Do you, what do you think about them? And she has literally said before, oh no, he doesn't even hold the door open for me. Guess where she got that?

She watches me hold the door open for her. So what happened is any guy that doesn't treat Eliana with a high standard of value, she's going to be like, I'm out. I'm setting her, I'm protecting her from all the losers by making sure that I date my wife well. So, hey, dads, fight for your daughter by dating your wife. And then the last thing I'd say, just real quick, is you're also God-proofing your prayers. First Peter three, it does that live with your wives an understanding way so that your prayers might not be hindered. And the implication is God's going, hey, when I gave you your wife, I entrusted you with one of my daughters.

And if you're mistreating my daughter, I'm not willing to hear anything from you until you fix that, my friend. So like God's literally going, I'm not listening to your prayers. Fix how you treat my daughter. He literally says, if you don't listen to her, I'm not listening to you. That's exactly right. That's exactly right. So that's the why. I'll give a couple quick hows, and then I'm gonna turn it over to you because I'm talking for too long.

I still think the pattern of leadership in the marriage, hey husbands, lead with lets, you be the one that initiates the dates. And dude, it doesn't gotta be expensive, man. That's not what we're talking about. Like, for a huge seasons of our marriage, our date was McDonald's. McDonald's.

We literally, McDonald's, and then we'd sit in the car in a pretty place and overlook a city and just sit and eat McDonald's and talk. Yeah. Go to Starbucks and spend $8 on two cups of coffee and hang out. So anyway, husbands, you initiate, you plan. Expensive coffee, man. Yeah. Well, Starbucks, that's right.

They call five bucks. Yeah. They call five bucks. Yeah, only other things I'd say is, you know, the obvious stuff we said, like, hey, man, put in an effort. Like, wear a shirt that doesn't have a team logo on it and an oil snake. Like, you know, put a something like. like that. Here's the other thing I'd say and Jane I'd love agree or disagree with this. You know, in high school you learn humans need four things to survive food shelter air water.

I think for women it's five food shelter air water and compliments. Oh. Complements are nice. So you know, it's a half joke. But like, hey man, like hey man, when you take her on a date, compliment her. Tell her how nice she looks. You know, say a few things. But you know, I'd say the same thing women like compliment your husband notice things oh on none of these am i saying it's only for the man okay i'm not saying these are only for the men but totally agree with you okay yeah and then i'll give a quick don't for the guys can i add something to it which is said um so it's funny because well first of all some episodes ago pastor josh taught me how to pronounce the word romance and so thank you thank you so much i'm learning how to speak it how did you say uh not to be confused with the word

romance oh that's like the book of romance yeah yeah so i think there's uh there's obviously a very strong biblical case to do what you just said in terms of like romancing your wife and or your spouse and if you this is a little thing that I found this week so the first time we hear Adam speak is literally he's singing to Eve right and he says bone of my bones this is literally the first time anybody's like a human being speaks in scripture is is a husband speaking something romantic to his wife and then obviously you know same thing obviously with the song Solomon that that happens all the time. And so I just want to add that note.

It's a bite. That's good. Yeah, that's it. No, you don't got to sing a song. I don't sing songs to Jana. But every now and then I'll turn on a little playlist. I like hearing you sing them. Thanks.

And then, you know, I think the only other things I'd say is I'll give a little hint. Like, some guys are not talkers as much. Right. Like, dude, there are literally, I have an iPhone note and I've used it before. Janina knows where it's like fun date night conversation. questions. And literally sometimes in the truck, I'll be like, hey, babe, here's a high fun note. You pick one and then I'll pick one and then we'll just, I don't know, it's a fun little way to have something to talk about. But what my don't for men in general, especially married men,

is, hey, man, because I see a lot of guys do this. So don't do this. She's not your football teammate and she's not your college roommate. Like, don't talk to her like one. Like, don't make a million jokes at her expense. Oh, definitely don't do that. Well, I just, more men than you would think. They talk to their wife like they would talk to a dude. And it's like, hey, man, she's, women are not into that. No, that's good.

What would you say to, Jana, what do married women need to hear about dating and marriage? I think, like, the first thing is, like, thinking about how to be a fun date. You know, you want day night to be, well, the best night of the week. That's what we say. Like, it's our favorite night of the week. So you need to do, especially we kind of talked about this last week about, you know, women just are caring for so many different people in their lives. So you need to do whatever you have to to get yourself in the mindset of just being there,

being on that date. So you can stop thinking about, oh, I left all this work undone at home or in the office or oh, the kids need this. Like, you need to turn that to do list off. You need to be able to be present. Be present because you need to be responsive. Don't just sit there. Like, you need to be actively engaged, excited to be there.

And just, you know, being willing to take an interest in things that he enjoys talking about. Because, you know, I think it's so easy for women. Like, I don't know, it's just easy for us to talk. We can talk about anything. but like be an active listener to like if he wants to tell you about work or if he wants to tell you about something he's enjoying and like care about it like just be a good listener and um it's funny one thing i'd say is you know send a flirty text or verbally tell him how excited you are um for date night to show him you're interested in somebody one of their comments was like well what if you don't write post notes or whatever. Well, just you need to be a student of your husband. What does he like so you can show him that you're excited? So, and do it that way. Dress in ways that he likes. You know, it's like, I don't know, you want to, you want to look different for him than as if you've been taking

care of the kids all day. You want to, you want to be ready. You want to dress in ways he likes, like, put in the effort. And then don't complain while you're on the date. Like, so you're driving, like, well, you're finally taking me out. It's how it's been. It's been. weeks or it's been months or we always go to the same place oh why do you pick this place I don't even like it you know it's just like whatever it drip drip drip drip drips yeah don't be that woman don't waterboarding ice is like ice is torturing yeah no that's really not gonna you're not going to have any success with that so it's like like think about just like I'm so glad to be here with you like this is such a joy that we get time just to hang out the

two of us and to talk. And so just let him know that you are excited to be there. And then make sure that the date night ends well for, I would say, not only him, but for you as well. So, so do that. Like, do those things. I just, she means what she thinks she means. I do. Like that's. Yes, have sex. There you go. That's right. Well, hey, guys, one of the reasons we are intentional in creating these kind of podcast episodes is because we believe that this discipleship happens in relationships. Having said that, what we want to do through the Live Free Podcasts is we want to model what it looks like to be in a discipleship group, where we come together and open up the Word of God together and grow together as followers of Jesus to live free in Christ.

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step starts now. I'll say a couple quick things to because I do think a lot of, first of all, there's not a biblical command to have a day night. There is a biblical command to pursue your spouse and invest relationally. So, you know, we saw a bunch of comments like, but we can't afford it. We have kids. What do we? You know, honestly, there's, I'll just,

maybe a little bit of righteous anger. It's like, just please hear me, you know, gently but firmly. Like, you're an adult, figure it out. Yeah. Like, can I just gently just say, like, be an adult, figure, especially to the men,

figure it out, bro. Yeah. That's what men do. You're not a baby. Figure it out. So, you know, if you know, need to do, we've done this before. Sometimes date night has been we get the kids down 30 minutes

early or an hour early and it's not date night, it's state night. We're staying in. Yeah. And, you know, having this special snack. There have been seasons where we've seen friends do babysitting co-ops. Hey, we can't afford a babysitter. Right. That's fine. Do a thing where you get together with four couples and go, hey, Thursday night, we're all doing date night. We're going to rotate who keeps the kids. Then three nights a month, you get a date night. And then, one night a month, you get 100 kids. Yeah. But it's, you know, hey, free, what you said?

Free babysitting. Three times a month. Yeah. It's like, it's whatever you need to do to make it happen. Yeah. Yeah. But just, like, I just want to gently say in a loving way, figure it out. Yeah.

Figure it out. Your marriage is worth it. Like, it is. They're like, stop going out to lunch with people so you have, if it's funds, so you have, so you can go somewhere. You don't have to go anywhere expensive. I think people are going to be curious about the part that you guys just mentioned about the date-night ending in a way that it will be bring joy and intimacy to You're allowed to just say sex.

Okay. It ends with intimacy and sex. That's right. It's not a rule, but in general, yeah. That's great. Needs and good. That's practical and helpful. And speaking of that, there was a viral video that went, you know, that kind of went around X recently.

So extremely viral. This thing did go viral. And we will talk about it. But first, I want us to see it. And so we'll have Trinity. If you can help us with the video, this is, before you play it, actually, this is Lila Rose, who is a pro-life activist and a devout, outspoken Catholic. And this is, she speaks into, again, marriage, in this case, anti-abortion.

And so this is the clip that went viral. Can we all talk about Father Mike Schmitz? I showed him to a girlfriend who's not Catholic. She's like, wins mass. What about the man needing sex? that's just a cultural narrative that basically says men are like animals and they have to be able to do this sexual thing. Otherwise, they're going to go crazy. And the reality is there's a whole vocations that are celibate. And these are virile men's men. One of the most masculine men I know are priests.

We need food. We need air to breathe. We don't need sex. It's a gift of coming together. And it's designed to bring life into the world. I think the sexiest thing about a guy is like their self-control. My husband has amazing self-control. So after baby number four, when we started practicing NFP, it was like we couldn't do it sometimes when we wanted to. And that kind of made things a little steamier. Like, not going to lie. It's hard on him, too. Don't get me wrong. People will say, well, oh, do you just do other things for your husband?

And so this is what she wrote with that video. And I'm not going to read at all, but I mean, I need sex. Our culture is so hypersexualized that the idea of a celibate priest leaves people in disbelief. So if that's impossible, as if it's impossible. That's heartbreaking. Have we really forgotten that self-control and virtue are within reach? Look at Jesus. Most perfect man on earth.

He was celibate and sinless before he was crucified for our sin. And then she quotes 1 Corinthians 7. And then towards the end, she goes, abstinence isn't just for priests. Intermittent abstinence can also be a beautiful practice within marriage if a couple has serious reasons to delay bringing a baby into the world when practicing natural family planning. Spouses can grow in self-mastery, deepen their love, and remain faithful to God's design for marriage. Christ is the model. Love is the reason. Holiness is the goal.

And to be fair, she obviously bit of her and viral. She responded later kind of clarifying what she meant, what she did. mean, but before we go there, Pastor Josh and Jana. Well, first of all, let me just say, in general, I don't know a ton about her, but I like what I hear about her. Like, totally pro-life, loves Jesus, stands for right things. So let me just respond to maybe not as much what she said, but what people could hear. But I will just say this. I don't know if I'm allowed to say this. I don't know if the Catholic Church and Catholic priests are the go-to example you want to use for how celibacy works out really well.

I don't know if that's the example that you want to. There is a reason that there are constant sex scandals having to do with Catholic priests because the Catholic Church has in a completely unbiblical way required priests contrary to everything that the Bible actually says to remain single. And they should stop doing that immediately. So let me just point this out. This is really interesting to me. It's totally silly the Catholic Church requires priests to be single and celibate.

The Catholic Church claims that apostolic succession, the first pope, was Peter. The Bible literally tells us Peter was married. And by the way, how do we know that? Because. Well, from the Bible. Yeah. So I'm going to read it. He had a mother-in-law.

A, that's right. A, he had a mother-in-law that's mentioned in Matthew 8, Mark 1, and Luke 4. But not only that, 1st Corinthians 9-5 literally tells us he had a wife explicitly. I'm going to read it. 1 Corinthians 9-5, Paul says, don't we have the right to take a believing wife along with us, as do the other apostles and the Lord's brother? Here we go. And Cephas, which is Peter. So like, it literally tells us that who you supposedly say,

your apostolic succession goes back to his first pope, had a wife. So I have a bunch of more to say, but I feel like I'm talking too much. That's great. You want to go? That's great. How do you want me to go? You want to go? I think, well, that's a good clarifying point.

I guess the question people were asking is, is it true? men don't need sex question mark jana you want to go you want me to go i mean it's probably better for you to answer that but yeah like you're a guy well let me just so here's what i would say is um uh it depends what you mean by the word need yeah what do you mean by the word need um here's what i would say i doubt that um you know it's two women who are having that conversation i doubt two women would be super comfortable with men saying women don't need emotional connection women don't need relationship. Okay, what do you mean by need?

Like, if you need in terms of like survival, food, water, error, shelter, like, okay, not for survival, but in the same way, like I would say, like use the example of friendship. Friendship is not necessary for survival, but it is a need in terms of if you go without it for long periods of time, it's going to be damaging to you because it's very unnatural for you not to have any friendships in your life. Let's just speak honestly

like grown adults, grown men and women. Like God created humans as sexual beings. That's what's natural. The natural state of a mature adult is as a sexual being.

And you spoke about this, Josh, recently. Sex is not gross. It's not God. It's a gift according to the Bible. That's right. But I think our culture, there's these two opposites.

Like a lot of people say, oh, no, that's gross. Don't talk about it. That's right. Another part is, other culture is like, no, no, it's God. That's all we're about. That's all we're about. That's a gift. It's a gift.

Yeah. Yeah, God gross gift. Got that from Driscoll. There you go. But it's a little helpful analogy. But the other thing, a couple things also that I'd say is, you know, she uses, she quotes 1st Corinthians 7. But honestly, dude, she, I would just encourage you to read all of 1st Corinthians 7.

1 Corinthians 7 starts by saying this. Now concerning the matters about which you wrote. And then this next sentence is in quotes in your Bible because Paul is quoting questions that they sent him. So this was like his equivalent of an IG story with what questions you have? And they sent him some. So the question they sent him was, it is good for a man not to have sexual relations with a woman. In other words, men don't need this. Like, he's literally addressing exactly this thing.

Men don't need this, right? Verse two, Paul says, but because of the temptation to sexual immorality, each man should have his own wife and each woman her own husband. The husband should give to his wife her conjugal rights, talking about sex, and likewise the wife to her husband.

For the wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. Likewise, the husband does not have a thursday, authority over his own body, but the wife does. Verse five, do not deprive one another, except perhaps by agreement for a limited time. Okay, well, what's the situation where we can do that, Paul, that you may devote yourselves to prayer. Prayer, that's it. Not, uh, we're having an argument. Uh, and so I, you know, I'm still mad and I'm going to punish him or I'm going to punish her for the next three weeks. Um, you know,

know, not, I'm not, I'm just not the mood. Not that. No, no. So you may devote yourselves to prayer, then come together again. Why? So that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. So, man, I think it depends what you mean by need. And then I would just say, man, even if you don't think he does, the marriage does need it. Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And, um, because I don't want to take anything she's like said out of context. And, and like misunderstand or anything, but it's like, you know, it's, priest chose celibacy. A married man did not.

And so I just think we, like, you can't compare the two. And so we need to read all of the first Corinthians passage there and do not deprive one another. And then the last comment about holiness is the goal. Well, you know, of course for priests to be celibate and all that, Yes, there's holiness there. But sex inside marriage with a husband and a wife is also holy. Is holy. That's it.

That's right. That is holy. Yes. Yeah. Praise God. Yeah. Is there anything you'd add there, Carlos? No, man, I think you guys said it.

I think that, I mean, that's it. We're going to about to jump into the Q&A on Instagram. I want to make sure we don't miss those. Okay. But before, very briefly, Judge this passage in the song of Solomon talked about how. catching the little fox is what the book calls it. Now, man, these little fox will ruin a marriage. Anything else that you would say,

obviously we're talking about intimacy and sex and depriving one another. Anything else that you would say, man, you got to be mindful of this little fox that might ruin your marriage. Man, there's a million things you could say here. The stuff that I feel like gets people the most are number one.

You got blueprint issues. So I think what I mean by that is when a builder is in a relationship with a client, the first thing they got to do is agree on the blueprint. What are we building? Because if you're trying to build something different than I want you to build, we're going to have a lot of conflict.

We build a ton of stuff at Lake Point. If we drop however many millions of dollars and to build a new campus over there, and then Talley Riggins would never do this. So shout out Talley Riggins. But then Taylor Regans, one of the builders we've used, build something different than we agreed on. We're going to have some serious conflict.

They would never do that. We love them. So number one, I do think, and I would apply this to people who are single and dating, you need to have the conversations up front. What's your vision for your life and family? So, like, very frankly, the blueprint we need to be looking for, according to the Bible, is the husband's primary orientation needs to be towards the marketplace provider.

The wife's primary orientation needs to be towards the home. I'm not saying that it's wrong for a woman to work. We're not saying that a wife's place is the home. What we are saying is that according to the Bible, a wife's priority does need to be the home. So, man, you need to agree on this stuff up front. And then, you know, so number one, get your blueprint right.

because if she's got, if she's got career woman girl boss in her head and you've got, man, I want to build a family and have a, you know, that, you have a problem. There's four things that every marriage needs to agree on and the divorce rates just go insanely down. It's faith, money. Faith, money. Oh, I'm missing too. I'm having a brain lapse. Sex is on there.

Faith money is intimacy on there? I thought, maybe I'm wrong. And then I thought it was family. Oh, faith money, parenting. I think it's faith money parenting and then extended family. I'm going to look it up real quick. But you need to, your issue is probably in me in one of those areas. And then the last thing I would say is you need to figure out how to get real good at,

doing conflict and forgiveness. Yes. That's important. That's going to be a whole week of the series later. There you go. Yeah. That's right.

Coming soon. Hey, let's get super practical. These are Q&A from our people. Our listeners. Make sure I said the right forward. And by the way,

if somebody's tuning in right now, hey, let us know in the comment section. If you're joining on YouTube, we would love to hear your comments. We, again, if you have any questions, I'm assuming some people have some follow-up questions. We're going to be answering those as well as we continue in this series. Let me start here.

there's a question, Jen, I want you to tackle it. This is somebody asking on our Instagram Q&A. This is what they say, Trinidad, can you pull up the, how do you continue to serve and submit to your husband when you get nothing in return for years? Okay. This is not the first time I've seen this question. I think there were actually multiples very similar to this.

And I, yeah, I get this question asked this question a lot. So I do not know this person's specific situation. So I don't want this to feel like too direct towards one person. I'm kind of going to answer it just to generalize based upon all the conversations I've had like this. I think it's really difficult to answer that because I don't know your situation. I don't know what's happening. I don't know all the details. But what I do see here is there is a belief that you're doing everything right and he is doing everything wrong.

And most of the time, what I've come to find out during these conversations is that's just not completely accurate. So what I would tell you is that you have to own your part. So you are responsible for you. And that is before the Lord. And he is responsible for him. And God will hold him responsible for his part. So that is like the first thing I would say.

So we can't control him. and I can't even speak to what he is or isn't doing. But I would say, here's a checklist for you of things that you can examine in your own heart and just be prayerful about this. So are you respecting him? Are you building him up with your words? Are you tearing him down? Do you have unspoken expectations and you're angry that he's not responding to them?

Do you pick on the couple areas he gets it wrong and never praise him or think him for what he gets it right? do you fess at him every time he tries to help you because he didn't do it the right way? And I promise you if you're doing that, he's going to stop trying to help you because it's never good enough. Do you treat him like a child or like your mom telling him what to do? Because you need to remember you are not His Holy Spirit. Are you pouring into your marriage what you're hoping to get out and then not thinking about what he needs? Are you a sexual blessing or do you find yourself withholding because you, you, you'd, just don't feel like he deserves it.

And are you praying? So you need to be... Can I go over something you just said with a verbal highlighter? Yes. So I don't want to run past what you say because I think it's really important. You said, are you pouring out to him what you wish you were getting

instead of pouring out to him what he wishes he was getting? Or not even that, but what he needs. What he needs. Yeah. So like, you know, I kind of joked about how husbands will do that and they'll get all touch. feeling and touch, touch, touch. When what she wants is emotional connection, this is very

frequent with wives too. I love and serve him. And I pour out everything. And again, and we're not trying to make everything about this, but, you know, it's like, but then it goes back to, and then you find out there's like no physical intimacy in the marriage. It's like, well, you're not pouring out what he might be hoping to get. So it's the exact same for husbands as for wives, go ahead. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, pray, like, be praying for him, praying, praying for yourself, you know, praying for a new marriage with the same spouse, asking God to open your eyes and help you see what you need to change. What can I fix? Like, Lord, do I have blind spots? Are there things that I am not doing that would be a blessing to him? And then, you know, if so, if you're convicted of this, and I have done this,

I have come to Josh and like just full repentance. Like God is just so open. My eyes at different points in time. And I'm like, I was really blind to see this. You needed this and I wasn't giving it. And I was being selfish and seeking forgiveness. And there is a beautiful thing to that, like to repenting and then walking in repentance whenever you find that. So one thing I would say to is like, and I don't know like how you would interject.

this, but just to get the ball, like, moving down the core on this. One thing, Josh and I will ask each other every so many months on a date night is, hey, that's what I was going to say. You go ahead. And you have to make sure your heart is in a posture to receive this. Do not get offended. But you ask, like, what are three ways that I'm blessing you? And one way, how I can bless you more. And that is just, like, one, you're like hearing all these things like, oh wow like he noticed that or that's been a blessing but like don't get upset about that one thing just work on it do it like fix it and um and that's i mean that is a blessing and so there's so many things that i learned or didn't realize because you know i'm like oh i didn't i didn't realize

i was weak in that area and then i just keep trying to improve on it there's a genius to that question that i just want to point out the um what are three ways i'm blessed you and when I could bless you more. There's some genius there. One, you start with three heavy encouragements before anything that could feel like a critique. So honestly, whenever you do it, by the time the critique comes, you're like, I feel amazing. I am crushing it. You know, yes. Two, it helps with understanding because it's like a lot of times when we'll do the three and three ways I'm blessing you, she'll say things I would not have expected. Yeah.

And then I learn, oh, when I do that, it really lands on her heart and vice versa. And so we're learning, like all the love language stuff. It also helps you, because you guys share that with Burke and I, like, I don't know, like four or five years ago. And honestly, we do that every time. And it also helps you whenever, you know, you're getting a fight and you're like, I'm holding this against my wife. I can't wait to get to the fourth point.

for me to let her know. And we're kind of worked up about it and I'm worked up about something. But then I'm like, I'm going through like one, two, three ways that she's blessed me. I'm like, oh, yeah. Like, man, she really has been a blessing to me in this way to the point where you get to that fourth one.

You're like, well, you know, man, you know, gently. You're just more prepared to be able to share it in a way that's like loving, patient. Because it matters how you share it as well. It does. The other genius about that question is it's framed. What's one way I could bless you more? Not what are you doing wrong?

Yeah. Where have you sucked this way? It's more just about meeting the need. You know? Yes. Yeah. It's important. You got anything else you want to say to that?

There was something I wanted to say there to, oh, okay. I want to slip this in too about like the, oh, I'm going to say this when I get to that point. Like one huge thing in marriage is just like not keeping a record of wrongs. And, you know, God convicted me at this one time. This is like our first year of marriage. And I would just prayer journal every time I would get mad at you. And then I realized it clicked. It was like, oh, my goodness, I'm keeping a record of wrong.

So then I like tore it all up and shredded it. I remember when you did that. And then I, yeah, I told you. And I was like, I'm so sorry. I've been keeping a record of wrongs against you. Will you forgive me? But it's like, you know, that's communication. It just sounds like in this situation, just getting you guys.

back in a place where you're communicating to one another, not keep being a record of wrongs, praying for one another. There's just, there's so much to say here. But go back to those questions. Once you start thinking about the three, three ways he's blessing you, then you're, going to see, he is, you know, hopefully he is pouring into your marriage. You know, he's doing something. One more thing, Janet, to what you just said, I think, again, I think this is a verse that, I don't know why we don't hear enough of this, but this is Proverbs 1911. Good sense makes one slow to anger, and it is the glory of man to overlook an offense. Not everything that bothers you is worth making a huge deal about it.

Sometimes it's like, yeah, that kind of bothered me. Let me just, let me overlook it. Yes, absolutely. I would just say real quick, and I mean, you guys are already here on that, but on that question, and it is a frequent question, which is sad. So like, hey, hey, husbands, let's up our game here. You know, one, as hard as this is, the Bible does not say, husbands, love your wives as long as she is lovely. And wives, it does not say, respect your husband as long as he is respectable or honor your husband only if he is honorable.

So even sometimes, let's be frank, for some people, parts of their marriage are trials to endure. And the Lord tells us that he will be with us in a trial. And sometimes you're going to need to walk through that trial with the help of Jesus. But remember, you own your responsibility. Your responsibility, God's going to hold you responsible for all of his commands, for how you should act in your marriage. And then God will judge him and hold him responsible for whether he did his part. But what you want to do is go, I'm going to be faithful with my part.

Yeah. I'm sorry. You don't have to ask just talk. Okay, give an example. So, like years ago, I was teaching. teaching something on marriage and I kind of went through just these different, a lot of these checklist things, but also just like really laying into like respecting your husband and just different things. And we got into sex and all that, like talking about that. But I, I,

years later, I had two women come and tell me she's, they were like, I did everything that we talked about during that time. And my husband and I were on the verge of divorce. And I just want you to know, like, we are together and we are happily married now. We hear it all the time. And so it's just like, hey, whenever you just listen to the word of God, be led by the spirit and do what he says, like, you know, God is able to, you know, make anything flourish. So there's hope for you. Amen. We got two more briefly. Let's do it. Lots of people asking questions about boundaries, especially when you're single. The way somebody phrased it is, is it okay to kiss and hold hands when dating?

But then somebody else asks, if men develop intimacy through sex, how do you develop intimacy prior to marriage? Which one are we answering? Those are two different questions. Let's go with the, not that one. Let me see. Go back to, Trini, go back to what we had initially. Yeah, what other types of boundaries should be said besides the obvious of no intimacy before marriage? Let's go there.

Mm-hmm. Well, the command is not to lust. Like, man, so, you know, this is a PG-11 podcast. I'll say something, maybe a little more PG-13. For a man, your body has been designed to give you a physical signal when you are lusting. Like when you, when, I'll just say it because it's like an anatomical thing. You know that you are lusting whenever an erection happens. Like that's something, you are doing something, thinking something, watching something that is triggering your body's sexual response.

So God wired into you a clear signal that something sexual is happening. So honestly, man, you've been given one clear thing there. I think you want to set the line like, instead of asking how close can we get to the line, you want to ask the question of like, man, where's the guy? where's the best spot for us to aim so that we know we're going to continue to walk in righteousness? So, you know, ask that question. And then the Bible says to give no opportunity to the flesh. What it means is do not put yourselves in positions where sin is likely to happen.

Don't carve out a little space where you know that if we want to, we could go, it'll happen. And so set some clear boundaries on, uh, we're not, we're not going to be alone. Even in this passage, I hit this in the sermon, she's like, I wish my man was here. I'm in bed and I wish my man was here. Uh, but then they go out and she, she's like, he's not here.

We're not doing that yet. We're not married people yet. And then she goes to her mom's house. They go to the parents house. It's like, oh, I want you meet my parents. parents. Let's spend time with parents. I want my parents to lay their eyes on you and see what they think. So date in such a way to be in environments that protect your integrity. Anything you'd add there, Jana? You said before you go there, Janice. Just recapping, it's not, where is the line? When is the time? Married, married, married.

And only temptation in the Bible that you're not supposed to be fighting is sexual temptation. You're supposed to flee from it. Yeah, I think that's good. That's great. Yeah. Awesome. And then somebody, do you have the, if men develop intimacy through sex, how do you develop intimacy prior to marriage? That's the question. Yeah. It's just taken, it's taken something that I've said out of context. There's, you'll notice, like, as a preacher, you kind of get used to, okay, I need to be careful. I need to add this little caveat. What I said in the sermon is, in general, I said, in general, women develop emotional, emotional connection leads to physical connection. I said in general, for men,

physical connection leads to emotional connection. It's not only. I'm not saying the only way. Yes. You're not an automaton. I don't know. It's like, yeah, yeah. So yeah, man, you want to develop.

So here's what I do real quick on this. I don't, this is something that didn't have time making the sermon. The relational structure of a Christian marriage is, you're Christians first, then your friends, then your spouses. So when you're dating, what you're trying to figure out is number one, are we going to be in Christians together? Like, does she love Jesus?

She walking towards Jesus? Can we act towards each other in righteousness like a sister and her brother in Christ? Then the second thing you're figuring out, the definition of marriage in Song of Solomon, I think it comes in chapter either five or eight, where they say, you are my lover, you are my friend. That's the definition of marriage in Song of Solomon. So then after Christians, you're friends.

So that's the other thing you're trying to figure out when you're dating is do we have a really good friendship? Can we talk? Can we have healthy conflict? Can we have fun together? Do we have at least a couple common interests where it's like, oh, we can kind of bond over this? And then last, your spouses. And that's all the headship and submission and sex and all, that's that stuff. When you're dating, you're establishing the first two levels of intimacy, not the third.

There you go. That's good. Last one, I thought this was interesting. This is, somebody said, my husband just became Catholic. Out of submission to him, am I called to do the same? Oh, am I called to do the same? Am I called to become Catholic because the husband became a Catholic? No, no. I would say definitely not. If you're saying become a Catholic, if no, because, and the reason I would say that is, now I'm going to say, couple. The reason I would say that is one, the Bible says wives submit to your own husbands as unto the Lord or unto the Lord. The implication is that, again, for a wife, there's the authority of the husband, but then there's a higher authority over the husband. You know, her husband's her head, but Jesus is her Lord. And when they come in conflict, Lord Trump's head. So if the husband ever asks her to do

something that Jesus would not ask her to do. She goes, man, I'm really sorry, a husband, but I've got ahead of Jesus Miller. I think what I would probably counsel a woman to do in that situation is Catholicism has some doctrinal issues that are very important. They are very important. But there's a lot of Catholics as individuals that are on team Jesus. I think what I would say is, man, maybe you attend mass with him. And man, you glean what you can. You know, you're there to love him. You're supporting the fact that he's trying to follow Jesus too. But you can be frank, like, man, I'm not all in on this stuff.

You know, and here's why. And then maybe you guys can agree on a time when maybe you go one week on, one week off. Hey, one week we're over here. And then, hey, the other week, could we go to my church? Or maybe you find a night of the week. You hit a Lake Point Saturday service before doing the Sunday Mass thing. Jana, what would you say there? Oh, yeah, that was one I didn't, didn't one answer.

Well, you don't have to agree with me. I, uh, I don't, I don't know what I'd say. I mean, like with, like, you know, complete other religions. Definitely not. No, I mean, we're all out on that. The teachings of demons. And I think that's why I'm just like, I don't know with this one. I think what you said is good.

Here's my thing. I grew up, I was baptized as a baby in a Catholic church. My dad was Catholic. My mom was Baptist. And over time, this is what my dad told me. He was a very devout Catholic. He said that over time, my mom invited my dad to go to the Protestant church or evangelical church.

And my dad agreed kind of begrudgingly, but then once he would go there, he would tell everybody, hey, I'm here. I want everybody to know I'm a Catholic and I'm a die Catholic. That's what he was like. I'm not going anywhere. But over time, my dad tells me that he thought, man, it seems like if I go to this church, my kids are going to end up actually following Jesus. And it's going to be more likely that's going to happen in this church than if I just take him to Mass.

Now, I'm not saying that's true for everybody. I'm just saying that's what my dad realized a long time ago. The Holy Spirit convicted him of that. And then eventually, again, he would say he was a more cultural Catholic at the time. Again, there's all kinds of Catholics. But then eventually he gave himself, he decided that he was going to commit to following Jesus, ended up at the Protestant church and by the grace of God, you know, God did a work

in my life as a kid. And so that's kind of, that's helpful putting it out there. That's a first Peter three story. That's what that is. That is. Hey, speaking of date, Jan and I are going on a date night tonight and our reservations in eight minutes. Yep. Would you pray for us?

Father, thank you for these men and women. God, I pray that you, Lord, I'm just going to pray it. I ask for every single person that wants to be married that you would bring them a godly spouse. Lord, I pray that you do it soon. I pray that very, very soon we see a wave of Christian marriages formed in and around Lake Point. I pray for every married couple that you would reinvigorate.

There would just be a fresh joy, a fresh life, anointing, and grace on the marriages. Loving, gentle, kind, engaged, emotionally accessible husbands and wives that are, they're respecting their husbands. they delight to honor them. They're physically available and a blessing. I just pray that the marriage would be full of just a joy, a love, and intimacy that they may have never known before. Lots of new marriages with the same spouses for the glory of God.

Amen. Amen. Thanks for tuning in to Live Free with Pastor Josh Howardton. We pray today's episode helped you take a step forward in life, culture, and faith as you live free in Christ. If it encouraged you, be sure to rate, review, and share the podcast, and don't forget to subscribe so you'll never miss an episode. Join us for Lake Point Church online every weekend

and find more resources at lakepoint.church slash live free. We'll see you next time.