Live Free with Josh Howerton - How God Redeems Pain & Suffering | Live Free With Josh Howerton

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

Have you ever wondered why suffering seems to shape us more than success? This week, we dive deep into the power of perseverance, faith, and finding purpose in the trials we face.   As we explore the letter to the church in Smyrna, we’re reminded that hardship isn’t the end of the story—it’s often the beginning of something deeper. Together with Pastors Mike Breaux, Marc McCartney, and Carlos Erazo, we unpack how God uses suffering and persecution to refine our faith and draw us closer to Him.    We also discuss how moral failures and their consequences can be a part of the journey, calling us to repentance and growth. Whether you’re in the middle of a storm or walking alongside someone who is, this conversation will encourage you to hold on to the hope we have in Christ.   👍 Like, Comment, & Subscribe for more life-changing podcasts! 🔔 Turn on notifications so you never miss an update!   👇 DON’T MISS OUT! We believe that freedom is found when we connect with others and do life together. Life Groups are where real, honest relationships can form and life-enriching friendships develop. Join a Life Group -- https://lakepointe.church/groups/   Find freedom through Re:generation, our Christ-centered, 12-step discipleship program to help you overcome personal struggles, addiction, hurt, and past trauma -- https://lakepointe.church/support-recovery/    ⛪ ABOUT LAKEPOINTE CHURCH: We believe that Lakepointe is a movement for all people to Know God, Find Freedom, Discover their Calling, and Make a Difference. With 6 DFW locations and programs for all ages, there's something for everyone. 🤝 Support this ministry and help us reach more people with the Gospel: https://pushpay.com/g/lakepointe/    STAY CONNECTED: 🌐 Website: https://lakepointe.church/ 👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lpconnect/ 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lpconnect  🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lakepointechurch      🎧 LISTEN ON THE GO! ▶️ Live Free on Spotify / https://open.spotify.com/show/353ryGdZNlebaiqkCcy3Yc  ▶️ Live Free on Apple Podcasts / https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-free-with-josh-howerton/id1669321198

Welcome to Live Free with Pastor Josh Howardton. Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know Jesus, live free, and make a difference with their lives. And our prayer is these deep dive conversations about the Word of God equip you to live free in Christ. This is a test drive and we'll decide whether or not to do more seasons based on engagement. So if this is helpful to you, if you could rate, review, or share, that will help us to know what's helpful. For more digital content, visit lakepoint.church slash live free. And now, let's dive into today's episode. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Live Free podcast.

I'm here with Pastor Mike Brough and Pastor Mark McCarty. My name is Carlos Arraso. How are you guys doing today? Good, man. Good to be here. Yeah, man. Good to be here with you. I haven't seen you in a while.

It has been a while. How are you, man? I'm doing good, but what I'm noticing is that sweatshirt right there. Okay. This guy is ready for March Madness. Oh, absolutely, man. He is ready. I love his, it's the most wonderful time of the year.

I think there's a song that says that. Yeah, absolutely. It's the best. Thursday is my favorite. National holiday this Thursday. Yeah. I asked you, hey, it's, you know, somebody who does not know

is his basketball. And you said very humbly and lovingly, yes, it is basketball. Thank you so much. And this is basketball. Thank you so much for letting us know. Yeah. So who's winning?

Hey, Carlos is a baller. Don't let it pull you. I play basketball with Carlos. He knows what he's doing. You're too generous. Six, four? I am. I am.

With your hair, you're like six eight. Basically. At least. Yeah. It's part of the strategy. I used to play. So Mike, you thought I, played soccer because, you know, obviously. No, actually everybody, so all of my friends played soccer,

I just, I never liked it. I never, you know, and so, and then my parents at the beginning, you know, when I was young, they basically said, hey, you should try playing soccer because I think you're going to be tall. And I did, and then I just played soccer for the rest of my life. And because I was the tallest in my home country. Basketball. I played basketball. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so anyways, but then, yeah, you coach me, Mark. Remember that one time? Yeah. You were coaching me, and he's basically saying, you're doing everything wrong. Literally, I'm like, let's play basketball. He's like, bro, that's not how you dribble.

You need to do the arc. Is that what you said? He has improved so much since my tutelage. That's great. Thank you so much. Maybe I can help the Wildcats out. Maybe you could, man. No, they've been good this year.

They've had a fun year. Had a lot of injuries, but pretty fun. So it's all starts Thursday, man. I can't wait. I love it. I always take off a couple days. Thursday and Friday, I just easily put it on my schedule off. I'm watching basketball for two days.

I love it. I love it. And we were talking earlier, about what we eat while we watch basketball. That's right. Yeah. You have a very specific menu. The bonus wings, yeah.

So it's a little thing you get a store called Just Bear, put in the air fryer. That's great. Awesome. And all the sauces. Yeah. Got a little honey mustard. Got a little spicy barbecue. Got a little buffalo, got a little ranch and just mix them all.

I love that. A little chick-fil-a sauce, too. Do you alternate these? I did alternate. Alternate them, yeah. You have a different experience. Depending on the mood, if your team's winning, you're like, I'm going to go buffalo. Is that it?

Exactly. Right. That's awesome. Well, hey guys, welcome here, man. For people that are joining right now, thanks for joining. And don't forget to, you know, do all the things. Mark, you know what people do on social media, right? They like, they subscribe.

Let's go. Do they share? They do. And don't they, like, ring that bell? Man, look at you. You're a pro. All the things. So, thanks for being here.

Hey, we had a great weekend, Mike. And, man, an amazing message. We're going through this sermon series called Letters to the American Church. and we're going through the letters of Revelations and Revelation Sean, by the way. And we're going on Revelation chapter 2 verse 8 to 11, the letter to Smyrna. And so, man, it's an amazing letter.

There's an intro video that I'm curious. Can we react to it? Would you guys be okay if we watched this video? Oh, yeah. And I react to it. Trinity, can you play that video? Got it? It's going to be over there.

The church in the ancient city of Smyrna was a church that experienced very, very intense persecution. from two groups, one from a group called the Judaizers, which were Jews that were hostile to this new sect called Christians, but then also from the Roman Empire. One of the most well-known stories of early Christian martyrdom was the pastor, a man named Polycarp, it's one of my favorite stories. Polycarp was a bold, courageous senior saint that was personally disciples by the Apostle John and left as a pastor of the church here in Smyrna. The emperor Marcus Aurelius threatened Polycarp at the point of death to confess that, quote, Caesar was Lord.

But Polycar being a man who had walked faithfully with his God for many decades, refused and gave up his life. His final words are recorded as he burned to death at the stake, confessing that Jesus was Lord. 80 and six years I have served my Lord Jesus and he has done me no wrong yet. How then could I blaspheme my king and my savior? This was a church that looked poor in the eyes of the world, but in the eyes of Jesus Christ, he said they were rich and wealthy because of their firm foundation of faith

in the Lord Jesus himself. So interestingly, on paper, this would look like a church you wouldn't want to be part of, but this is the only church in the book of Revelation that Jesus does not say a single negative word. He simply cheers them on in their firm, bold faith, urging them to stand firm in their faith even unto the point of death. That's good, man.

It gives me chills to watch these videos. Shot on location. Very, very cool. Mike, this weekend you, I love that you shared all these, like, very interesting things that honestly most people probably didn't know about this church. Man, what stood out, and I'm curious to hear from you, Mark as well, man, what stood out from this particular letter and all the interesting. interesting things that you mentioned, just fun facts, just things that people didn't know.

Yeah, Josh touched on a little bit how this is, this is, Church of Philadelphia also, Jesus doesn't say any reprimand to them. Yeah. But Church of Smyrna, he just praises them and encourages them because they needed. That's what they needed. That's right. They were beat down, beat up, you know, destitute, living in Sloan, living in the catacombs, wherever they could survive.

And the city of Smyrna, We talked about it this weekend, how it was this beautiful place. I mean, beautiful place. It was the pride of Rome. It was called First in Asia and Beauty and Size. That was inscribed on our coins. Like, we are the most beautiful place. In fact, if you go to the, I think it's Ismar, how you say it, in Turkey,

Smyrna is still there. It's one of the towns that's still around. Yeah. But it's now Ismar and Turkey. And it's on the coast. It's just spectacular view with the blue waters and just beautiful. beautiful place, and that's the way it was in the first century. So it was the place to go, Smyrna. Everybody loves it. It's interesting that the, you know, obviously they're going through

persecution, lots of suffering years later. That's the only church. That church is still there. Yeah. You know, you would assume that because they went through persecution, because they went through so much suffering that at some point, that church is probably going to be eliminated and wiped out. The opposite happened. What do you guys think that is? Well, it's amazing in the text. You know, I know your afflictions and your poverty. yet you are rich. Yep. Yeah.

Yeah. yet you are rich. And there was just a well there, a deepness of the relationship. There was a dependency in the affliction, a dependency in their impoverished nature, a dependency, a dependency whenever the affliction came or the persecution, and it drew them to their maker. It drew them to their savior. And they remembered.

They remembered the times that he was faithful. And in that quote from Polycarp, he talked about how you have never let me down. You've always been faithful to me. How could I turn on you? And that was just the mentality that was there. Yeah, they had found something real and they hung on to it. In fact, I touched a little bit on this in the message this weekend. The persecution really is what made the church thrive.

You think about it. You read through the book of acts. Every time persecution broke out, the church was scattered. And new churches got planted. And it just thrived and it flourished. Persecution is what kept the church strong and pure. And like you said, Carlos Smyrna hung around because of that. I mean, their faith just went deeper and deeper, deeper, deeper dependence upon God.

And that's why they're still around. And I touched a little bit on this on the weekend. And I think it was in, I want to say 314, AD, something like that, where Constantine becomes the emperor of Rome. And he declares himself to be the first Christian emperor. And he gives all the Christians land back that was been consecrated through the years. And they didn't have to do military service. and they got state jobs and all this kind of stuff. So you can imagine the corruption that came along with that,

people going, okay, no state job. I mean, you get a state job. You don't have to pay taxes. You get land. Yeah, I'm a follower of that. What's his name? Oh, Jesus, Jesus. Yeah, that's it.

I'm a follower of it. And that started, persecution stopped. That started a thousand years of intense corruption in the church. You know, that you can read through centuries of church history and go, oh my goodness. Yeah. But persecution kept it strong and pure. And no place was stronger and purer, according to Jesus than Smyrna.

It really challenges my faith when, even if today, basically what you're saying, Mike, when you see the Christianity growing in the world today, when you research what parts of the world is Christianity exploding? Right. And what parts of the world is basically becoming less and less Christian? I mean, if you look it up right now, the sub-Saharan Africa, Asia, Latin America, a lot of of these places, these are not places that are easy to be followers of Jesus. There's persecution, there's suffering. The situation is just, it's uncomfortable. There's risk. You have to sacrifice to be a follower of Jesus. You have to lose a lot. And yet, you know, in our culture, for the

most part, sometimes it's so easy and comfortable. And yet it just seems like our faith doesn't thrive in those spaces. Yeah. And then any little thing that comes against us, we just, we, we, describe that as persecution. It's not persecution as some of these folks around the world, what persecution is really like. You know, in fact, in this century, it's more martyrs and persecution have happened than in the first 19th century.

So it's still going on around the world, and the church is thriving because of it. It's a real oxymoron that way. It's a real paradox of how that happens, but it does keep the church strong and pure because if you're willing to die for something, man, you want to live for that too. Yeah.

You know, people do that. Yeah. And, you know, as followers of Jesus, we are not called to follow comfort. We are called to follow Christ that went to a cross. And so I think that's a very sobering whenever you, you know, because again, when Christianity kind of pervades a culture and it's just kind of like the norm and everybody, you know, there's a cultural Christianity. Oftentimes I think that we forget that.

And so we think, you know, God's here to give me what I want and to make me feel good. and to fulfill my desires. Ultimately, we're following Jesus to a cross. And so, man, I want to click on what you mentioned as well. When it comes to, let's talk about suffering. Let's talk about a quick theology of suffering. You mentioned in your sermon mind, and I love this, by the way. John Shelton, he said, pleasure is the intermission of pain.

And it seems, again, back to this idea, it seems like in our culture, we just see it backwards. Right, right. We have a very different perspective. We will probably see it as pain being an intermission. eruption or an intermission of ease and comfort. Why, click on that and why do you think that is? And what do we do we do with it? Yeah, I was just thinking how, you know, Jesus told us straight up,

said, in this world, you will have trouble. You will have problems. You will have pain. It's going to happen. It's just life in this broken planet. It's the way it's going to be. But take heart because I've overcome the world. I'm going to be with you.

And that's, again, one of the cool things that jumped out of me. Sorry, I'm going to ramble a little bit. But the Church of Smurman of what jumped out to me, too, is Jesus, Jesus came to them and says, and all these letters are like this. He takes a little cool little tidbits that were specifically about the town they were living in. And he brings it back around to them like they were known as Smyrna first of Asia and beauty and size. And Jesus says, hey, I'm the first. I'm the first in Smyrna.

I'm the first in Asia. I'm the first in Africa. I put this world together. I'm the first and the last. So have faith to me. Trust me. You can make it through this. And yeah, for me, that really jumped out.

I forgot what your question was now because I started rambling. No, you're good. Yeah. Well, I think, you know, back to what you're saying, I think our culture assumes everything should go well. Yeah, yeah. And then when it doesn't, we feel miserable

because we don't know what to do with suffering. And when you look at other cultures as well, it seems like throughout history, other cultures knew, hey, the default will be suffering and the default will be life is difficult and things happen. But when we have, you know, goodness, it's God's grace. It's like, oh, man, thank God. And so there's gratitude to the truth.

But then for us, it's the opposite. It's like we really wrestle as a culture to figure out what to do with suffering. And so, Mark, anything else that you found from this particular verse or from this idea of suffering? The idea of suffering for sure. Like we, especially when we're thinking about how the church is growing where it's persecuted, like with suffering many times, we just try and solve the problem ourselves. And so we solve the problem with, we seek to solve the problem with money, with resources, with strategy.

Do you know what they do in Africa? They pray. They beg God. They're like, show us what to do. And there's just a desperation, which creates a union in your relationship with the Almighty Father. And when we try and solve our own problems, and we take it into our own hands, then we get what we can out of it.

But what we also do is we isolate our creator who is desperately wanting to be in that union with us and in that relationship to journey with us while we're suffering while we're having problems. And we do mislabel suffering, don't we? Yeah, absolutely. We say things that we messed up and we're, I'm persecuted.

It's like, no, that was your choices, your actions that have caused this. You brought that on. This isn't Satan. This is you, you know, walking outside of what you know is right. Yeah, sometimes things just happen, you know, because we live in a broken world. But sometimes we bring it on ourselves and we blame God and other people. And it's really the consequences of our own choices.

One of the things I loved about this letter that when Jesus told him, he goes, I know. I know your poverty. I know your afflictions. I know the slanders being labeled at you. So I know all that. And he's not just saying, I heard about it. He knows it. And that helps me to think when I'm going through a tough time that he knows.

Yeah. He knows. I'm not going to suffer any more than Jesus had to suffer from me. Yeah. And so that helps keep it in respect to me. Well, it's interesting because when you compare all world religions, Christianity is the only religion where God knows what suffering is. So if you compare to the other ones, like literally there is no other religion where God personally experiences the suffering.

Jesus is the only one that says, man, I know what you're going through. And so if somebody were to ask one of the most common questions when it comes to pain and suffering, people will ask, wait, wait, if God is good, then why is their suffering? Why? And let me make it more personal. If God is good, why would he allow this to happen to me? Or why would he allow this to happen to somebody that I'd love? Why would he allow me to go through this particular pain or trial?

What would you say to that? I would say this could be a whole other podcast. It would take a long time to unpack this, but just real short. and I'm not trying to simplify this at all. But it goes back to what we just touched on briefly was God gave us free will. And we have a choice. And there would not be love without the ability to choose.

And so God gave us a free will so we could choose to love him, choose to love each other. And, I mean, God gave me this hand. I can use this hand to pick up a gun and shoot you guys where I can use this hand to feed somebody that's hungry. God gave me a mind. I can cloud my mind with pot, get behind a wheel of a car, and take someone's life. Or I can use my mind to figure out how to cure cancer.

I mean, God gave us a choice. He gave us free will. And he longs for a love relationship with him. And so without a choice, there is no love relationship. It's true with our wives, right? I mean, they were programmed with a string that you pull and go, I love you, I love you, I love you. I love you. That's not love.

There's no choice involved in that. And so we took the free will choice. Ab and he kicked it all off. It hadn't been them. It had been us. But they kicked it all off with choosing to say, you know what? Yeah, you're holding out on us. We choose to do this.

And sent entered the world. And we've been living in a broken planet ever since. And so sometimes we've blamed God for that. You know, how could a good God gave us paradise? And we said, we don't, that's not enough. And we took it in their own hands. We said, we want to be God. And so ever since then, man, it's just been living.

living in the fallout of all that. Let me throw an illustration at you real quick, guys. You respond to this. It's helped me through the years. It might be a stupid illustration, but it's helped me. Because sometimes when you see, quote, unquote, innocent people, even though there's really no such thing, when you see good people, in fact, Jesus is the only one qualified to be called good.

You know, when people say, what, bad things happen to good people? Well, there are really no good people. We're all in need of a need of a... of a good savior. But sometimes even the innocent, you know, get caught in the fall out of our collective sin. Let's say we were to say we were to go out to a, you know, like a crystal clear lake. And all of us took our little cup here of toxic waste from the sin of our life. And we circled the lake, a thousand of us circled this lake.

And I stood in front of me and I poured in my little cup of toxic waste right in front of me. And you did the same. you're on the other side of the lake. And I decided, I'm thirsty, man. Well, I know where I'm not going to get a drink right in front of me. I know what I poured in there. I'm not getting a drink there. So I'll walk around the other side of the leg and get a drink over there.

And guess what happens? I get sick because of what you guys poured in, you know? And that's what happens, even the most innocent get caught in the fallout of our collective rebellion, our collective sin against God. And that just happens. That's good. Yeah, and for the person wondering, hey, is God still good even when things don't go well? Obviously, in scripture, we find, yes, he is.

I mean, Mike, you said it. God gave us an element of volition or free will or choice, and so there's going to be some evil there. God made a good world, but then Genesis 3 says that we live in a broken world because of sin. I mean, a good news of just being a follower of Jesus is God redeems suffering. He's not passive about it. And so. And he will redeem this broken world, too. Like, it's not going to stay broken.

That's right. Redemption is coming. Paradise law is going to be paradise regained, even better. So that's the hope we hold onto too. Jesus takes that suffering on the cross, and it points to the future, what you just said, Mike. And there's going to be a point in time in history where God's going to say, okay, it's done.

Jesus comes and he defeats death, suffering, sin, and revelation later in the book, it says there will be no more death, and God will wipe away every tear of you. your eyes. And so one of my favorite quotes is from Dr. Tim Keller about this, and he says this. He says, it is the most liberating idea possible. And ultimately, this enables you to face all suffering, knowing that because of the cross, God is absolutely for you. And because of the resurrection, everything will be all right in the end. And so I love that so much. You said God redeems pain. He uses pain.

Some people say, did God cause this pain or did God allow this pain? Some people debate this. Here's what we know. He always uses that pain. Mike, can you share with us, man? What are some ways he uses that pain? I know you've got a bunch. I wrote down a bunch.

You know, I always ask on this podcast, what is it didn't make it in the sermon? I got a bunch didn't make it in the sermon. Let's go. But I usually, my answer to that is I put everything in there. I got, you know. But I wanted to take a deeper dive in the suffering. on the weekend but wasn't able to do that because of the, just sticking with the text and the letter.

But I want to say back up, just say something that you just touched on it made me think about this. When people ask, why do bad things happen to good people? Think about it this way. The worst event in history happened to history's best person. You know, the cross screams loudly that God is a good and loving God in the spite of all the pain and all the suffering.

So it helps me to look at the cross and go, Oh, yeah, that's the answer of that question. So that helps me a lot. Well, I just, I jotted down some things that I thought about suffering, and I'll throw them out. You got, we're in a small group, right? And I'll be a small group leader, and I'll throw it out, and let you guys kind of bandering around and stuff,

and I'll jump in a little bit as well. But one of the things I wrote down was that suffering enrolls us in UCD. Now, I'm not going to say UCD, we've talked about March Mad, this will be USC, UCLA, TCU. They get in, I don't know, SMU, you know, LSU. No, no, those got in. But I'm not talking about UCD, the University of Character Development. Do you guys ever been enrolled there?

Sometimes I feel like I'm permanent sophomore class president, you know. But I think God suffering enrolls us in a University of Character Development where our character gets developed. So how's that has that been true in your life? Mark, what do you got? Yeah, definitely. I mean, when you're in those moments where you feel like you're at the end and you have those. times when no one's watching. And it's like, what are you going to do? How are you going to respond? Are you going to take the next step? Are you going to get up? Are you going to go for it?

And it really does test your character. And it forms your character as well. I have a friend right now who, man, he is going through it. And some things happened to him. Then he did some things he shouldn't have done. And it's tough. I mean, it is tough. And it's testing his character. And he got, honestly, got caught in some lies. and he's like living this life is exhausting. And it's like for him, it's like, okay, we need to put some Ws on the board. All right, we need to get back to like some habits. Like we need some holy habits in your life that you need to start getting into, you know, opening your word.

Like when you do it, when you get in the word, like text me, let's celebrate that, man. That's good. Like let's get some Ws on the board. You need some physical habits healthy too. Like this particular friend of mine, like it's not that he drinks a lot, but it was like, hey, man, this is season four, that. Yeah. You need to get rid of that right now and get, you know,

because these kind of things start to test your character. Whenever you're tired, you're lonely, you're depleted, you're hungry. I mean, you don't think Satan's attack comes even harder than, like when you're in that persecution. That's when your character is truly tested. And if you're going to stand, it's going to be because you have a foundation, of these things you've been practicing over and over and over. I think too, man, when I think about that, I mean, for sure, it makes a lot of sense. When you become a Christian, the Bible uses the term justification to basically say,

hey, you are a child of God now. You have been saved. We're justification just as if you've never sin, but then once you become a Christian, you start a process called sanctification. And sanctification is basically when you become a Christian, God wants you to grow into the character of Christ. And obviously he uses, God allows situations to shape you and mold you, and he'll use suffering. And so I think basically, like you said, Mike, you're basically, it feels like you're just enrolled in this never-ending process, obviously always under the care

of a good and faithful father. But that does not mean that everything's going to be comfortable and easy. There's going to be some things that will shape you and will challenge you. I think, too, of the story of Lazarus, when this is really interesting, when you think about this story and Lazarus died and somebody went to tell Jesus, hey, your friend is, you know, he's sick. Actually, he hasn't died yet. He was sick. And what did you guys remember? What did Jesus do when he heard that his friend was sick? Stayed a couple days. He waited. And I think the Bible says he waited what, four days? And so he waited four days intentionally. And then he said, okay, let's go. It's time to go check out on, you know, Lazarus, Mary, and Martha. And then Jesus showed up. And then

Mary and Martha were like, who was it that said, Jesus, if you would have been here before, we would have been okay? Martha, they both say it. They both say, that's right. Martha says it first, probably with a little attitude. That's right. It sounds like Martha. Yeah. Mary says, it says exact same thing later on. That's right. And Martha says, man, if you would have been here before, basically it's like, hey, why did you wait? And if you think about it, why would Jesus wait and make that situation happen. And it makes me think that oftentimes we think God will just come in and fix everything.

And we forget that God is after our sanctification more than our comfort. And occasionally we're going through situations that can be difficult and we experience pain and we're like confused and God, God, why did you not show up or why having you done this thing? And in those moments, it could be that God might be testing you and shaping you and strengthening your faith. And so again, it's an ongoing process of

sanctification where God cares about who we are becoming. Yeah, one of the verses we throw out a lot of times when people are going through suffering a tough time will say, you know, Romans 828. Just remember Romans 828, 828, God works together all things for the good of those who love him. You know, we forget about Romans 829 because God's definition of good and our definition of good can be very different. Our good is the comfort thing. We're thinking about. That's it.

And verse 29 talks about for God wants to conform, his purpose is to conform us all in the image of his son, Jesus. That's his definition of God. Whatever makes us more like Jesus, that's what's good. And that's our character. That goes to our character. If we have more humility, that's good. If we have more dependence, that's good. If we have more endurance, that's good.

If we have more integrity, that's good. If those things can make us, shape those things in us, and cause us to be more and more like Jesus. So it really is like a good thing. It really does feel like you've been in character-development school, and you come out going, man, I think I might go to grad school now. Some good stuff's happening to me. I've become more and more like Jesus.

And the thing that's making you more like Jesus is not the comfort. It's the hard things that are just kind of, you know, chisling away at you. I want to read a quote. I brought this with me. It's from Randy Alcorn. He's got a book called If God is Good. He says this, let's be honest. Virtually everyone who has suffered little and has been sheltered from life is shallow,

unmotivated, self-absorbed, and lacking in character. You know it, and so do why. Yet, we do everything we can to avoid challenges, both to our children and to our ourselves. And if we succeed in our avoidance, we'll develop in ourselves and our children the sort of character we least admire. Wow. He's just saying, when you think of character school, we're going, I want to skip class, man. I can't wait for spring break. I need a snow day, you know. And that's what we do. He goes, when we do that, man, we don't allow God to shape our character and chisle our character and forge our faith like in the fire the way he wants to.

So suffering is a hard thing, but it can be a really, really good thing for your character. Yeah, we pray, God, I want to be more like you. And then God's like, okay, great. And then he allows us to go through some things. And we're like, God, what are you doing? I'm not doing your prayer, man. I don't want to be that much like you. Right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let me tell you a second thing. Can I start a second thing out? Suffering cultivates humility and draws us into a deeper dependence upon God. How have you found out to be true? I actually was in India two weeks ago and went to southern India Donovore where one of my spiritual heroes,

Amy Carmichael, lived. If you don't know anything about Amy, I'll give you a very quick... Yeah, I'll give you a very quick... She was one of the first missionaries to ever contextualize to speak the language of the people dressed like the people.

In India? In India, yeah. She was able to basically recognized an atrocity, a human atrocity was happening where in the early 1900s, people, especially if they were more wealthy, when they had girls, they would take them to the temples and they would give their babies to the temples. And then the temples, you know, after about 10 years, would start prostituting them. And Amy discovered this and started rescuing girls from there. She rescued over a thousand girls. I actually met, they have 70 women in their 80s to 90s,

still live there that I got to meet two weeks ago that were rescued by Amy Carmichael. It took her 40 years to fight, but she was able to turn and make that illegal in India. Wow. And so she's got this basically a compound. There's over 200 buildings there where they were housing these children, and we got to go tour it and see it. And one of the things about Amy is the last 20 years of her life, she had fallen into a hole and was bedridden. And so I went to the bed. It was as hard as this table right here. She was on that bed for 20. years. Wow. And she, that's when she wrote most of her books. She wrote over 40 books. And she kept

fighting on those 20 years. She was suffering. Like she was going through hardships like, we really can't imagine. I spent one night there and it was really hard one night on that hard bed. Yeah. And was like, I could not do this. Like, it was hard, man. You know, there's no AC. There's no AC. I know you. 100 degrees. There's a fan of that. Rats, you know, crawling on me. It was, and I'm like, this is how she lived. Wow. Now, the point to say what she would tell you was what she learned is that his grace is sufficient. Yeah.

Wow. And she actually learned what that was like. She actually pushed through it and was able to not long for suffering, but embrace the suffering. Because she knew that the other side of that was her relationship with Jesus. And there was ministry to come through it. And it was amazing to see, like put my eyes on it and see that happen. Yeah. I've heard many people say this.

If dependence is the goal, then weakness is an advantage. And, you know, nobody likes weakness. Nobody likes pain. Nobody likes to cry because you're going through something difficult. And yet those are the moments that God and his grace can use to just shape your heart to be one of a, God, I need you much more than I thought. And there's no substitute for that. You know, the first words out of Jesus' mouth when he started his ministry, you know, when he stood up on the hillside, did his famous sermon on the mouth was, blessed are you when you're busted, when you're destitute and spirit, when you're poverty. You realize your spiritual poverty. When you're meek, when you mourn, those, you know, I've gotten backwards, but you know what I'm talking about how that deep dependence is where life, that's where you find happiness. When you're deeply dependent upon God. And when suffering comes our way, it forces us sometimes. to go, man, I need to depend upon you. I need you every day. I need to see you as my

Abba, my daddy that picks me up and holds me. And that's tough for us guys to say sometime. But, man, when we dive into deeper humility and deeper dependence on God, it's a good thing, a really good thing. It's the key to life, actually. Yeah. Well, when you're weak, humility and weakness, obviously, they kind of go together. Like, you can't be proud and feel weak or desperate. And I think, you know, the Bible says God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble. And so if somebody is going through something, man, you're in the perfect spot where God will come in and fill you and cover you and protect you. And so that's good news.

Yeah, yeah. I got another one. Suffering exposes God substitutes in our lives. Has a way of uncovering idols, pretenders, other things that were given our devotion to. How's that been true for you guys? Let's hear it, call those. God's like, God exposes. So say that one more time.

God exposes pretenders, like want to be gods in our life. When suffering comes along, we go, so what are we holding on to? What are we running to? Because they don't work anymore. When things get hard, yeah, right. Yeah, man. Here's what I know. Last year, I've been, actually, I read some books on suffering because I have been going

through a season where I've had some health challenges. I'm sure at some point down the road, I'll probably share more. But the book of Job shows basically Job was a righteous man is what the Bible calls him and yet he went through all of this and obviously the story he wrestles with this and God what are you doing?

And ultimately it seems like Job was finding out whether he loved God or whether he loved the blessings of God. And I think when it comes to, you talk about God's substitutes. Oftentimes, you know, I'm asking myself in my heart, man, am I here and am I here serving God and loving God because I'm seeking his face or because I'm seeking his hand?

Or is it me just interested in what he can give me or what I can get out of it? And ultimately, it is suffering that exposes. Actually, no, no, maybe if there's some feelings there of like maybe bitterness or anger against God because of what I'm going through, it might be because ultimately I just want what God can give me, not God himself. And so I think, again, those are moments of purification and where God examines your heart. And oftentimes, he'll show you, man, there's some areas in your life where I think you want, you care more about the promise I've given you more so than my presence.

Yeah. Yeah. He kind of reveals like comfort has become your God. Money's become your God. Your career has become your God. Being known has become your God. I think it has a way of breaking that stuff down. There's a cool verse in Proverbs 18 that says,

The name of the Lord is a strong fortress that godly run to him and are safe. The rich think of their wealth as a strong defense. They imagine it to be a high wall of safety. So we can build our own walls of safety when God's going, no, no, no, come on. Run to me. And suffering makes us run to him

because everything else falls apart. All those other gods can't do anything. but God says, come to me, let me be your strong fortress, run to me. How have you found that to be true? Yeah. Well, I feel like it is related to the whole character school thing. Yeah. Because what happens is when we're in the midst of suffering and there's an opportunity

to run to the father and to build that character or there's an opportunity to run to these little gods. And the little gods will, they'll be okay for a season. They'll be okay for a moment. And so you'll stick in them and just keep trying to find the next little God and the next little God. Anything to run away. And it's like, no, run to the father. Like run to the father.

And it's really hard in our fast-paced culture where we never slow down. We never settle to think that a grown man that I need to go get help. I need to run to the father. I actually need to slow down. I need to sit with him. Kind of go back to my basics. Blocking and tackling of the. faith and see what God will do in the midst of the life.

Oh, we run a different thing. Go, well, that didn't work. Well, that didn't work either. That didn't work. That didn't help me. Yeah. And then you run the father. Oh, oh, this is where I was supposed to run in the first place.

And there's a new level of your relationship when you do that. Yeah, absolutely, man. There's a new level at the other side. Let me ask you this. If somebody is asking, man, I would love to know if there are some potential God substitutes or idols in my heart, how do I identify them? What would you say? Go ahead.

I do that. I mean, we both do the same prayer every morning. Search me, oh, God, and know my heart, test my anxious thoughts, see if there's any offensive way about me and lead me to the way everlasting. What time is that? Psalm 139, yeah. You do that too much? We both pray it in the morning, yeah.

Search me, oh, God. How did you know that? For me, it's, I was going back to, yeah, yeah, yeah. I always go back to, you know, you see those, you know, referees, NFL referees, or even now the basketball referees go to the monitor. to look at the play, you know. And I kind of thought that's what I need to do in my life. I need to go to the monitor and say, okay, God, go to the monitor with me.

Let's replay this, replay my day, and show me, search me, show me what I put above you. Show me ways I reacted that I shouldn't react it. After further review, I would love to get your call on my life. And it does that. He reveals stuff. That's great. That's a great practice to have. you found it to be super helpful. Your dad taught you that, right?

Yep, he did. And it's one of those things. My dad didn't teach me that, but I, you know, my father did. So I just go to him. And it's another thing like that. For me, it's like the check engine light in my car too on my dashboard. Go, okay, God, I'm going to pop the hood here. I need you to get under the hood and figure out why? Take me to the root of stuff. I know I'm angry, but why am angry? I feel like I'm bitter, but why am I hanging on this bitterness? I know I feel like I'm always in a hurry. Why am I always in a hurry?

Why am I always in a hurry? Why my RPM's out of control, God? So take me to the root of what I's. It's been super helpful to me. That's great. And this is why it can be uncomfortable, I think, especially maybe for men, is it takes time. Yeah. Like you need to sit with the Lord and ask those questions. And sometimes you sit in some silence, trying to figure out what are you saying to me?

God. And, you know, we're not very comfortable in our society with silence and with waiting. But it is, I think it's a practice that's been so helpful. So that's what I'll do. When I pray that prayer, first I pray, Jesus, you're my first love. Help me remember it all day long. And then I pray that prayer and then I wait. And I sit. And I'm just, you know, what's the Lord going to reveal to me? And sometimes he reveals some foolishness from the day before that I get the opportunity, honestly, So like right then to sometimes send a text to someone or make a phone call and like write or wrong. You know, like ask for forgiveness from that brother in Christ. And then sometimes it's more of, okay, Lord, but I do still feel anxious about this.

And I don't know why and I want to know why. Like help me see this, Lord. You know, they talk in AA and other recovery groups about taking a fearless moral inventory. Taking a deep dive into the center of the truth about your character. And that's one of those ways. You can take an annual retreat and do that. You can take a monthly get away and do that. Or you can just every day as well do a little spot clean.

God, I'm taking the inventory today. What about this day at the close of the day or the beginning of day? So, you know, God, just examine my heart. Why am I doing what I'm doing? And sometimes, like you, Mark, sometimes God will just reveal a little thing. You know, like, hey, that was a bad reaction. Or I want you to go do this today. I want you to, you know.

Or sometimes I'll get a little thing. a letter like like like like like he wrote to the churches in Revelation's the whole letter going and this and this and this and this and just a have against you but that's that's a good day though because I didn't see it that's got's love you know he's saying let me

show you you're asking me to show you absolutely I'll show you because I'm asking him going I can't see it yeah but I know there's something there because it doesn't feel right what is it take me to the root of that it's been been a really good practice for me every time I've ever like called someone to apologize

Like sometimes they didn't see it, but it always strengthens our relationship every time. Because at least they say, oh, there's a sensitivity to that. Like, Mark doesn't want to come across that way or doesn't want to hurt me in that way. Usually they see it. I'm waiting for you to call. But it always strengthens the relationship. That's great, man. You said character development, Mike, creates humility, explores, exposes God substitutes in our lives.

Yeah. Let me give you another one. Suffering is a wake-up call that can lead us back to Christ. C.S. Lewis famously said, God whispers in our pleasures, but shouts in our pain, pain is his megaphone to rouse a deaf world. How has suffering brought you back to what you said your first love? Yeah, because what happens is it is that wake-up call. It's that realization of, I am living for myself. Yeah. I am doing this thing. I'm looking for those other gods. I'm looking for those idols that will fill the void.

And instead, it's like, God, you are, you are that source. you are the thing I need to return to. Yeah. If somebody were to ask when they're going through something, is God disciplining me? Or some people might say like, is God punishing me for something? What would you guys say?

No, I don't think God's punishing you. I think God can discipline you though. And sometimes, like we said before, sometimes it is the consequences of our behavior and what we did and it comes back around, you know. You know, there's all kinds of things that maybe we neglect to do through the years. And then something bad comes back around. We go, God, why?

You go, well, you did this for years to yourself, you know, that type of thing. So you have to have to take responsibility for that type of thing. But I do think that God loves us so much and wants to conform us into the image of his son so much because he knows that that's the best version of us that he can do. That he allows these things to come into our life so that we will be. discipline and depend upon him and come back to Christ. I mean, I've talked to a guy recently after one of the services at Lake Point. I've been going through a really painful, unwanted divorce. He said, dude, this is the worst thing I've ever been through.

But it's one of the best things I've ever been to because it brought me back to Jesus. Because I just realized how what a jerk I'd been and how far I had drifted from God. and this thing came into my life. It's like, oh, that's a huge wake-up call. I've got to get back to where I was before. That's good. And so even though it's been very, very hard and unwanted, and honestly, he would say brought it on himself,

but it brought him back to Christ. I've got to get my life together. And sometimes it's like the cold, or like C.S. Lewis said a megaphone or a cold splash of water in your face going, dude, where have you been for the last 10 years? Yeah. How have you drifted this far?

And suffering comes, in your life go, oh my goodness, I got to get back on track. Or sometimes you get a diagnosis, you know, and you go, I'm not going to live forever. You know, I need to do what's important in my life. And it brings you back to what's really, really important in your life. That's good. And I think, too, especially when it's the Lord's discipline and you sense that, of course, at first it may not be that pleasant.

Yeah. But as you get honest with yourself and allow God to get honest with you, there is such freedom. And that's actually becomes the feeling that you get. You don't get the feeling you're being disciplined. You get the feeling I get to live in freedom now. And that is a beautiful thing. We have a verse for that. Hebrews chapter 12, verse 11.

No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace. for those who have been trained by it. Yeah, so good, man. I got, can I throw another verse on there? First Corinthians 7.10, for God can use sorrow in our lives to help us turn away from sin and seek salvation.

We will never regret that kind of sorrow. That's a good. Tough times make us think, man. That's good. Wean us from the world, they drive us to our knees. And if God can use personal pain to bring us back to the source of life, then that personal pain actually is a good thing.

Let me throw you another one. I got a few. more. Go ahead. I'm a scrambling. Let's go. Throw them out for you. Another priceless thing that I found that suffering can do, it produces deeper levels of

gratitude and joy. How have you found that to be true? Is it? Oh, man. That's a hard one. I have seen that, though. If any of you have ever gone through Regen and you get to worship with other folks in Regen, Regents are our recovery ministry meets every Tuesday night, it is there is a freedom

there. Honestly, the Mesquite campus at our 11 a.m. service in particular. So many people have gone through Regen there in that service. When you have been saved from something, your response is different. And you know it, like your worship and your response is different. And there's just so much joy on those faces. And it just feels so authentic.

So when you said that, that was the first thing that came to mind is seeing people worship, that they know they have been redeemed. Yeah, absolutely. Mark, I love that. You mentioned, Regen, because, you know, I was going to ask, what are some practical ways people can apply what we're talking about in terms of like, man, somebody's going through something, what to do? And you mentioned, you know, people, church, other fellow believers.

Can you expand a little bit more of what does it do when you are going through something and then you find other people? And by the grace of God, you come together, dive into the word and you know, and you figure out find healing and you walk through life together. What does that do? Can you guys speak a little bit? it can be a game changer when you have so many you can walk through things with. And that'd be my encouragement to anyone who's listening where they're suffering and they feel like they're doing it

alone is like get a friend, get a buddy. And what you want is you want someone who's going to point you to truth and be positive about it too. Like that's who you're looking for. But you've got to be honest with someone. You've got to be able to be fully honest with someone. And there's there's kind of levels when you're in the midst of it. You know, there's you got to be honest with a few people. eventually you can be honest with everyone, but you've got to be brutally honest with a few. That's why obviously things like Regen or life groups are so valuable because they allow you to journey with other believers. And why it's so important is all the things that we've been mentioning, the character

development, the humility and dependence, all these kind of things, all of them, you're going to veer back towards comfort. You're going to fear back towards the idol, back towards self. And you just need someone you know loves you, cares about you. just say, Mark, that's not the way. You need to go this way. You know when you do this what the result is. I think a tendency sometimes, too, when things come our way like that, we just want to isolate. That's right. That's like the worst thing you can possibly do. Worse thing. Because, man, we are all living in the same broken world, and we're all, you know,

we all are fellow strugglers. We all wrestle with different things. Suffering comes into everybody's life. And so when you recognize that and you say, you know, I'm going to throw in with a bunch of other people. We're going to do this together. That's when you described the recovery ministries and stuff, how much joy and gratitude there is. Because there really is a, come on in, man, me too. Yep. You know. And it's, it is a game changer when you do that.

You're done playing. This is why we're unapologetic about inviting people to join a group at Lake Point. I mean, we will say this all the time because discipleship happens in relationships, freedom. Here at Lake Point, we'll say we're a movement for all people to know God, find freedom. How do we find freedom in community? Yeah, and John, I mean, just the three of us sitting here talking about stuff like this, it helps me. I go, man, that was good today that we talked about this. And so I'll say

if anybody's listening right now, and whether, honestly, whether, even if you're not going through something difficult, even if this might be by the grace of God, a good season, if you have not yet found your people. It's coming. So there you go. Pastor Mike, you said it. It's coming. That's right. You've been through a storm, you're going through a storm, or you're about to go through one. That's just the way it is, man. And that's why, that's one of the reasons why you need community. And so you are not one podcast away. You're not one book away. one sermon away, you are one relationship away from experiencing freedom and finding healing. And so if somebody's joining right now and they're not yet part of a group, and text the word group to

20411, we are here to help you find your people. And this is why we're here. And if you're doing good, you get to be one that helps. That's go. There's nothing better than helping another brother or another sister get up out of that pit. Actually, that's the last thing, the next thing I jogging down. Actually, way to go. Good segue, man. Suffering, expect. our hearts toward other people. First of all, it has a way of breaking down barriers. Like, it doesn't matter. When you're going through a tough thing, you're sitting in an ICU waiting room.

You're not thinking about, well, that person's social standing, that person's bank account, that person's looks, that. None of that stuff matters. You're going through this thing together. And so it expands your heart toward other people. And you find yourself, you know, like Paul wrote this. I love this. This is one of those recovery things that's been in my heart for a long time.

Second Corinthians, these one force says God comforts us in all of our trouble. so that we can comfort others. When they are troubled, we'll be able to give them the same comfort that God has given us. I mean, the resume of every effective counselor includes suffering. Wow. God recycles our pain for you. You know it, man, you're sitting across the table or sitting in a small group around a circle with someone who needs to hear where you've been.

And that suffering that came into your life prepared you to be the person in that moment at the right time, at the right place, saying the right words that God, you say, you know what, man, I never thought that God would recycle this pain in my life that I went through to help somebody else. But that's the way it does it. And it's a beautiful thing when that happens. And it's a beautiful thing for you to go, man. I mean, chemo was awful. It was terrible. I hated going through that. But here I am sitting with someone that just started it. And now I'm able to pour into them, hey, here's what you do. Here's what you think about. Here's what you look for. And it's like, all of a sudden you feel like, thank you God. Yeah. For bringing me through that, teaching me through that so that I can now. be used to help another person. It's really cool. And for the person that's going through the difficult part and they meet somebody that they've been there, done that, they've gone through that same thing.

It is so encouraging. Like it's just, it infuses you with hope and courage. Like, man, he had the same thing or he went through something similar. And by the grace of God, he is where he is and he's, there. And if God did that with him, he might be able to do it with me. Absolutely. And it's just so encouraging. So, Mark, that's a great point, man. God wants to use you to be a blessing to the people around you. Yeah. And that's amazing, man. I love the way Pastor Josh says it.

He'll often say, God can take your greatest misery and make it into an amazing ministry. Yeah. And it's so true how God. Absolutely, man. I think of my buddy, Paul, I may have shared the story before I can't remember, but it was really cool. He was my next door neighbor and came to Christ. That's a long story.

I don't want to get in all that. But he'd done a bunch of bad things in his life. And sometimes even though you're in a lot of. a new creation in Christ, the past can come back and bite you. And he'd done some, he got accused of some stuff that landed him in jail. He had to go for three years. And found out later, he kept telling me, he said, bro, I didn't do what they're accusing me of.

I really didn't do it. I've done a lot of other stuff. He goes, I should have got caught for in my life, but I didn't do this. He goes, well, maybe God's just saying, hey, here's for the other stuff that you never got caught for. He goes, but I'm going to see these three years of seminary. I'm going to take my new study Bible, and I'm just going to dig in. I'm going to get to know God in a cool way.

So that's what he did. And when he came out, I mean, you all see this guy's Bible. It's amazing. It's just amazing, man. It's so, you know, margins are covered with notes and posted notes everywhere, reminders. It's so cool. But it comes out.

And we ask him to be one of our decision counselors. Somebody would meet with people after services. And he was so excited one day. He comes over to my house. He goes, you're not going to believe what happened today, man. He goes, I'm sitting down with this guy, this young guy, and he just really broken. And he says to me, he goes, man, I just want to make a change in my life. He goes, but, yeah, I've done so many bad things.

And he goes, I did drugs for a long time. And Paul said, I said, well, me too, man. He goes, really? He goes, yeah, but you never stole from people to, you know, to feed your habit. He goes, oh, man, you have no idea how many people I've stolen from in my life. And then he said, then the kid wanted to kind of like drop the bomb on me. He goes, yeah, but you've never been to prison. I said twice.

He goes, man, I couldn't believe that I was sitting there. All the stuff I've been through, most of itself inflicted, all the stuff I'd been through, to be able to be there in that moment with that particular kid to give him health and comfort in a way that only I could. It was just, it was amazing the way God has recycled all the crap in my life to help this young guy. So that happens. Man, it happens. It's cool when it does happen. When it's you, it feels really great.

Amazing. Joy unspeakable for that. Yeah, yeah. And that's the gratitude part. It rolls out of that. You go, man, I can't believe how far God has brought me and what he brought me through to be able to help somebody else. That's go, man. It's really cool.

That's really good. Here's where, you know, as we start landing this plane, Jonathan Edwards, he famously said this. If you are a Christian, these three things are true. One, your bad things will turn out for good. That's Romans 828. That's true. Number two, your good things, the best things in your life cannot be taken away. You're a son of God, your daughter of God.

You have the Holy Spirit. You have God's promises. You have everything, all the riches in Christ. And if those two things are true, if your bad things will turn out for good and your good things cannot be taken away, then the best is yet to come. And so, man, as we, any other words on suffering or anything else? I love that, Carlos, because there's just hope. If you're in that, yeah, that's just perspective for you.

And I think one thing that's huge when you're in that pit and when you're suffering and it's tough is remember what he has done. Like literally write down the things that he has done, write down where he has come through in the past. Remember what it was like when you first came to. Jesus, how excited you were. And remember those because what that will do is it will start to bring gratitude into your heart. And when you have gratitude in the midst of suffering, you talk about character starting to be developed. Right. And you start seeing this cycle flip because you're

turning back to him. That's great. Yeah, well, I had just had one quick thing about, when you're going through suffering, man, it has a way of connecting your pain to God's word as well. When you dig into God's word when you're going through a tough time. I've heard it said, you know, don't just try to medicate your feelings, you know, go to the truth. So when you go to a truth source, it's like, man, this was really helping me. I thought a little double jeopardy question to you guys. Longest chapter in the Bible.

Psalm 119. There you go, Psalm 119. 176 verses. I want to read all 176 verses right now. Can I just read a few, though? That's why I came today. Yeah, here we go. I lie in the dust.

Revive me by your word. I weep with sorrow. Encourage me by your word. Verse 50. Your promise revives me. It comforts me in all my troubles. 67. I used to wander off until you discipline me.

Now I follow closely to your word. 71. My suffering was good for me. It taught me to pay attention to your word. Verse 92. If your instructions hadn't sustained me with joy, I would have died in my misery. 107.

I've suffered much, old or, sore my life again as you promised. 143. As pressure and stress bear down on me, I find joy in your commands. Verse 153, look upon my suffering and rescue me, for I have not forgotten your instructions. I mean, over and over, God's word connected with our pain. I know of no other place to go when you're going through a tough time than to God's word. And just go, God, just teach me.

Just help me have a truth foundation. Give me the proper perspective. of going back to the church in Smyrna, he's saying, listen, I know you're called the crown jewel of Asia. I'm going to give you a crown of life. So when you have that perspective, when you build your life on truth,

like this is just going to be a little while. The stuff I'm going through, honestly, it's just a little while. And when I make it through this little while suffering time, I'm going to get a crown of life. I'm going to live forever in a place where there is no suffering and there is no pain and there is no, you know, hard stuff going on your life.

I'm going to be forever in that place. So when you solidify your life on that truth, man, it helps a ton. And nothing does that like the Word of God, knowing God's Word in your life and hanging on his promises, just knowing the truth of what Jesus said. Thank God for his work. Yeah, absolutely, man. Man, that's good. Every week, here's what we're doing.

We're basically inviting people to submit their questions on Instagram, YouTube section, in the comments. And so what we want to do is we want to just take a time before. we wrap to address some of the questions that people are asking. And this could be honestly related to anything, right? And so I got a couple here that I select it. Are you guys ready for this? Mike is ready. Okay. Did you say Mike is ready? Great. Good. I'm glad. So the first question is very quick. We're kind of doing a little bit of a left turn over here. Is it a, is somebody asked, this is a question somebody submitted on Instagram. Is it a bad idea to date somebody who is

an unbeliever. Wow. So you're going, we're talking about suffering today. Let's talk about dating. Speaking of suffering. Relationships. If you date someone who's an unbeliever, you'll start suffering. Okay.

Elaborate, please. Sir. Well, you know, the Bible talks about not being, you know, I think maybe in the old King James, thought about being unequally yoked. Yeah. You know, a yoke was something to put on. You're better when you're yoked up equally. is to pursue somebody with the same values that you have.

I think my wife puts it like this. She goes back to the parable of the soils where Jesus talks about the seed that's thrown in different soils, and the seed that was good soil produced, good fruit. She goes, she goes, look for somebody's got good soil. Wow. You know, don't look for a soulmate.

Look for a soil mate. Somebody that has the same values, the same kind of humility, the same eagerness to grow closer to God. And that's the best way to do it. Yeah, absolutely. You should not date someone who's an unbeliever. And it goes beyond that.

Honestly, your closest friends as well. They really need to be the kind of people that share your values that are also believers. Of course, you're going to have friends that are unbelievers. We want you to. But your closest friends, that inner circle, they really need to be people that are spurring you on towards love and good deeds that are believers. Yeah. That's good, man. I think when you're also single, you're honestly, you're not thinking about building a family.

You're really just thinking, who's going to be with me? And who do I get to, you know, but then Jesus said in Matthew chapter 12, 25, he said that a house divided against itself will not stand. And the word division means the vision, two visions. And so if your vision of life, like you just said, right, if your vision of life is to love Jesus, follow Jesus, obey Jesus, become like Jesus. But then the other person, that's not their vision, that's another vision. That's stuff. You will have a really hard time building something that lasts when you have two visions. and in your family.

And so again, I think I agree with what you guys said. That's great. Yeah. That's good, man. That's helpful. Last one, a little more sensitive. This is something that I think in this new generation with social media and, you know, the news and all the things, it seems like we get to see, you know, pastors in churches

with perhaps a little bit of a bigger platform experience moral failures. And so this question is, why do pastors experience moral failures? and is this like, is this a thing that we should expect? And it just seems like it keeps happening. And how do we process it as Christians? Oh, man. Well, I will say this about the bigger platform. It's really, I mean, there are temptations to come with a bigger platform.

But it's the bigger platform we hear about. There are pastors all over the place. And small churches you never heard about that are going through the same type of thing. And I think it goes back to what we talked about last. week in Jesus' letter to the Ephesians, somewhere along the line, man, you just drifted, and you lost your first love. You weren't passionate about loving Jesus and following Jesus and walking with them through the day. And you may have heard that call by the spirit going, remember, repent, and return.

And you went, no, I'm not doing that. And you just kept drifting. I mean, any of us can do that. Yeah. You know, it doesn't really depend upon having a big platform. It's just you lose your first love and you drift and you stop doing the things you did that used to, you know, pride takes over and power can be a drug. And you start to feel entitlement in your life. And then when you start to feel entitlement in your life, gratitude goes.

And then you start to look at people as objects, you know, to serve you. And, I mean, you look back and go, go, go, golly, go, go, galley, I have drifted so far. And I didn't even realize I drifted this far. That's why, again, going back to the search me, oh, God thing, man. When you stop saying, search me, oh, God, when you stop being poor in spirit and saying, God, I'm in spiritual poverty. I need you every day of my life. That's when you start to drift toward those things. And I think it, sadly, it happens to a lot of people.

Yeah, I hate it so much. And by the grace of God, here we are, you know. Mike, you're saying then it's like a, it's a small, or it's a, it's a fade. It's like a progressive. It is, man. It's a slow fade. It's a slow fade. It just is, man.

It's a drift. You know, if you don't drop anchor in something that's solid, you're going to drift. And you're going to be able to middle of the ocean going, how in the world did I get here? You know, but you're there because you drift it. Yeah, I mean, pastors are people. That's right. Humans. And anyone, they're not superhuman.

They are not. And we do. We put pastors on a pedestal. Oh, my goodness. And we don't need to. Yeah. There is a gifting. And when they're obeying and following the Lord, there's power in the ministry.

of course, but it's like they are humans too and can fall. And I hate it. It's sad. But for anyone that falls. And, you know, there's, you know, when that happens, there's going to be consequences, but there's also, there's always a chance for restoration. Absolutely. Always a chance for restoration.

But one of the problems is, is that, you know, people do put pastors on a pedestal, so speak. The problem comes when we put ourselves on a pedestal. Yes, it does. You know what? I mean, in a lot of occupations, I'm not even saying that being a pastor is an occupation necessarily, but a lot of people who work in the world. I mean, there's very, very few times do some, I mean, we take criticism, we take shots. That's part of it. It's part of leadership.

Everybody does that. But very rarely does someone come up to a plumber and go, thank you for changing my life. They don't come up to a carpenter and go, man, what you said the other day, just really touch me deep in my soul, change my marriage. age. They don't come up to an engineer and go, hey, man, thank you so much for what you've done and how kind you've been. You know, I mean, it happens occasionally compliments like that, but pastors get that all the time. And if you're not careful, that can go to your head and go, you know what? Yeah. I am good. I am kind. I am a life changer. And you forget the power from which it all flows. None of it was you. None of it was you, man. You put yourself on a

pedestal. And that's a dangerous place to be. It really is. Yeah. Here's what I'm hearing you guys say. Your faith as a Christian is ultimately not in a person, but ultimately in Jesus. Pastor sin. Grace is real.

There is grace. Pastors also need the same grace that we all need. But there's also hope for restoration. Restoration is a process. You said there's my planes that land safely. Don't make the news. So when it comes to all these names or maybe those with a little bit of a bigger platform.

Everyone's like, oh, see, this is all the pastors. That's not true. Not true. There's a lot of faith. You've seen many faithful pastors over the years finish well. Far outnumber those who have fallen. And I think that's good to know. This house right here has.

Yeah. And Pastor Steve. That's right. And the way that he has ran the race. That's right. And yeah. So we need to recognize that too. That's right.

We don't minimize in any way the problem, but we should celebrate and thank God for faithful people. I just think sometimes all of us can fall on this trap of insecurity and our identity is in what we do. And then that leads to a lot of bad decisions in our life. And I think the invitation that you mentioned was also, I think, huge today, especially in our culture where we just see a social media clip and we're like, oh, man, we put ourselves in a pedestal,

and we say, oh, man, like, I would never do that. Yeah. It's actually, like, you know, when you see something like that, man, it should kind of make you say, Lord Jesus, have mercy on me? Yeah. And would you, would you please, by your grace, keep me and help me walk and examine my heart and see if there's anything in me that you need to address? And so, you know, I think it's a very dangerous thing when you're rejoicing over somebody

failing. Oh, gosh. It's like, it's like, I just read the story. this week of Jesus talking about the two guys going in the temple to pray and the Pharisees says, well, thank you, God, that I'm not like, like this guy over here, this tax collector guy. And the tax collector is going,

God, have mercy on me for I'm a sinner. And I need, you know, I want to stay on the tax collector side. You go, man, without the grace of God, I'll fall in a heartbeat too. And to your point, I had a mentor as I was going into ministry, told me, hey, before you go into ministry, is there any sin that you think you would never commit? Because if there is, if you don't think you're that guy that could do, fill in the blank,

don't go into ministry. Yeah, good. And it was so, so boring. And it was a helpful thing. Like, I have to be able to say, yeah, I could lie, I could cheat, I could steal, I could abuse, I could do all. I have to say, I could do all those things. So I recognize I need a savior.

Yeah. I need a God who will be with me and keep me fun. following after him and not the way of the world. Yeah, I remember the story of the woman on the Titanic who asked the crew, said, is it true that this ship is unsinkable? And the guy came back with Lady, God couldn't even sink this ship. You know, when you think you're unsinkable that would never happen to me, man, that's opening up a door for that to happen to you.

Wow. So. Well, may, by the grace of God, may we have a posture of humility and say, let's keep our first love, man. Let's go. Let's go. And when bad things happen in our life, we'll go. go, you know, you're the first and the last. You got the last word. You're first in my life.

And I'm going to follow you. And even through hard stuff, I'm going to find peace. I'm going to find joy. I'm going to find a reason to be grateful for this. And I'm going to even use it to help other people. And if you're the reason the bad thing happened, repent, put it in the light right away. Yeah, yeah. Absolutely. Just confess right away. That's good. Mark. That's for Mike. Would you pray for us? Absolutely. God, thanks for these guys. I thank you for the people that are listening. I thank you for all the groups that are breaking in into circles and sitting around living rooms. and coffee shops and back decks and wherever, God,

and just I thank you that they're talking about stuff like this, because this happens to all of us like we started with. You know, life is hard. You told us Jesus that it would be. I thank you for people like the Church of Smyrna that just dug in and said, we're going to be faithful to you. You're our reason for living,

and nothing's going to distract us from that. Nothing's going to keep us from following you. God, we want to be people like that. whatever comes in our life, that we wouldn't run from it, that we would just run to you. So, Lord, thank you, thank you for this letter. He wrote to a precious church. I can't wait to meet some of those people in heaven someday. And other people around the world that are going through persecution, God.

I want to meet them, too, because you have prepared a place for us. That kind of stuff will never happen again. And so grateful today, God, help us to be a light in this world today. help us to be a grace dispenser of what you've given to us, and I pray it all in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Thanks for joining us. For more biblical teaching and worship, join us for our Lake Point Church online live weekend services on Saturdays and Sundays. Also, if this podcast was helpful to you, would you be sure to rate, review, and share this podcast to help get the word out?

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