Live Free with Josh Howerton - How To Discover Your Calling | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Episode Date: July 14, 2025

Can God really use someone like me? In Episode 31 of Live Free, we kick off our At The Movies series with insights from Ford v Ferrari and Acts 4:13. Pastors Josh Howerton and Carlos Erazo are joined by Jana Howerton and Pamela Baltazar as they unpack how God uses everyday people for extraordinary purposes—not because of credentials, but because they’ve spent time with Jesus. Discover how to find your calling through affirmation, ability, and opportunity, and why faithfulness in small things matters more than you think. Whether you’re serving behind the scenes or stepping out for the first time, this episode will inspire you to say “yes” to God’s bigger plan.   👍 Like, Comment, & Subscribe for more life-changing podcasts! 🔔 Turn on notifications so you never miss an update!   📝 SHOW NOTES Subscribe now to receive the show notes directly in your inbox with each new episode. These notes are filled with key insights and scripture to help you reflect and grow deeper in your faith – https://lakepointe.church/shownotes    👇 DON’T MISS OUT! Ready to walk in your calling and start making a difference? Click the link to join your serve team today! https://lakepointe.church/serve/   ⛪ ABOUT LAKEPOINTE CHURCH: We believe that Lakepointe is a movement for all people to Know God, Find Freedom, Discover their Calling, and Make a Difference. With 6 DFW locations and programs for all ages, there's something for everyone.  🤝 Support this ministry and help us reach more people with the Gospel: https://lakepointe.church/give    STAY CONNECTED:🌐 Website: https://lakepointe.church/👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lpconnect/📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lpconnect 🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lakepointechurch   🎧 LISTEN ON THE GO! ▶️ Live Free on Spotify / https://open.spotify.com/show/353ryGdZNlebaiqkCcy3Yc ▶️ Live Free on Apple Podcasts / https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-free-with-josh-howerton/id1669321198

Welcome to Live Free with Pastor Josh Howardton. We're so glad you're here. Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know Jesus, live free, and make a difference with their lives. And this weekly podcast is all about helping you do just that. Each episode is a deep dive into the Word of God, tackling life, culture, and faith with truth and clarity so you can be equipped to live free in Christ.

Thanks for tuning in. And be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode and follow us on all our social platforms to stay connected to everything happening with Live Free. Now, let's dive into today's episode. Welcome. Welcome to another episode of the Live Free podcast. My name is Carlos Arasso, and I'm here with Pastor Josh Howerton, Jana Howerton, and Pamela Baltasara. Hey. Welcome. Guys, look at this set.

I know, man. At the movies. This is super cool. Can we tell them how you made fun of me for choosing this is the thing? I don't, wait a way, before you explain this. I don't remember I made fun of. Bro, you totally did. I remember saying it. I just don't remember making fun of it.

You totally did. It was very tongue-in-cheek. So for listeners, you know, it was like, I can't remember when they did. It was like three or four months ago. The design team, they showed us like three different options for the at the movies theme. And one of them was like real bright, Disney, Western theme. Very cool. And it's very, very, yeah.

Very awesome. But he's not making fun of you. No, of course. No, no, no, no. Of course not. So then, you know, it was like, they showed me three of them. And immediately, this is, you know, if you can't, if you were, like, listening instead of watching, the theme is very, like, 80s, VHS. It looks so good. It's so awesome. I love it. It's awesome. You jerk.

No, I do. I do. So, like, immediately, I went for, like, grunge, 80s, vintage. I was like, that's the one. That's the one. And all the designers in the room are, like, in their 20s, and they were like, we knew you would pick now. Everybody do. It looks so good. I didn't see the other one, but. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I just want to know, I was going to ask you guys, like, what is a VHS? Stop. Stop, call. Come on, you know. Our kids ask this is the same thing. They never see. Do you actually know what VHS stand for? It's video.

Wait. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. It stands for a video home system. And I'm kidding. I did grow up with VHS.

All right. Yeah. Yeah. How much younger you are? Yeah. Young enough. Yeah. Yeah, I'm 33.

Yeah, but I did grow up. Me and Jana are geriatric millennials. That's right. I'm not asking you, great. No, too. I'm about to turn 40 in November. Okay. 85.

Yeah. Yeah. We were 83. 83. Yeah. You had to rewind, you know, and there's like a tape. You got, and you got my dad, one of the maddest I've ever seen my father, love you dad.

He listens to all these. Like the maddest I've ever seen my dad is we were late, returning a movie to Blockbuster in town, and he forgot to rewind it. And if you remember, they used to charge it. And dude, my dad was hot. I mean, how much do they charge? I have no idea. I just remember like, dad. Basically was $30.00. I don't know. That's a lot, man. Yeah. 30 pesos. Is it what was 30 pesos and dollars? Like 150? Okay. $150? Okay. $150? No. I'm teasing. I'm teasing. I was thinking it was about a dollar.

I just remember it was more than that. Because it's the only time my entire, my dad does not get mad, like ever. My dad is not get mad ever. But he's a frugal, wise man. And I remember, like, I remember him saying, you lost a customer. It's like, oh, man, that is funny. It was they charge you more than the rental fee. It was more expensive than that rental.

This was a blockbuster. I think it was either Blockbuster or Hollywood video. It's probably a blockbuster. He had love us. And I was going to say, your dad's probably like, you guys, your business is not going to succeed in the future. He was right. He was right. He was right.

He was right. That's funny. Let's talk about at the movies. Hey man, at the movies. Week one. Bro, cramming 30,000 people into our building. That's a lot of people. It's amazing.

It's absolutely amazing. And by the way, before we jump in, man, we're going to have a good episode today. We're going to be talking at the movies, Acts 413 serving, maybe Brandon Lake. We're going to talk about some things out there. Thank you for liking, subscribe. being show notes. We're going to talk about fast cars. Fast cars as well. Yeah, I want to talk about fast cars. For the people that are, by the way, I love when people share about how the show notes are actually extremely helpful. Dang, I had a picture. I forgot to send it to you. I may send

it, I'm going to send it to you guys right now. Genuinely, people are like, we love the show notes. Thank you for show notes. I'm going to send this right now if I can find it. Ah, dang it. I didn't screenshot it. Never mind. I can't do it. But somebody, like, people have started tagging me in pictures of their disciple group, life groups that are, that listen, like we said, they listen to sermon, then they listen to the deeper dot podcast, then they're meeting in like coffee shops and diners using the show notes as their discussion guides for discipleship. That's right. And so people started tagging me in these on IG, and I was going to show one of those.

So like, yeah, let's keep going. Yeah. I love that. Yeah. And so to download the show notes. And so these notes, Bible verses, all the nuggets of wisdom from Jenna and Pamela in this episode will be included in the show notes. So you have to get it.

To do that, go to lake point. that church slash show notes. It's gonna be great. If, uh, so Pamela's nickname is the Hispanic camera. We need, we need a nickname for jam. There you go. Do we have one? What rhymes with, is there a J?

Well, you know, like my nickname in my Spanish class in high school was always Peliroja. It was, Peli roja. Beli roja. That's cool. Which you gotta translate. Yeah. He's red-headed.

Red-headed. Yeah. Yeah. I can say that. Wasn't, yeah, that's right. Wasn't that your email address when we first met? No. No, I used, I don't know that I want to say it.

It was my login. It's still her password now. We don't want to show that. You have to change that. That's funny. I still like our debit password. I don't know. I don't know.

Hey man, at the movies was great. Oh, yeah. It was great. It was great. I have a, I hear some people, first of of all, if somebody's new, yeah, if somebody's new and they're like, wait, at the movies, I thought this was at the church, like what's going on? I hear some people have some thoughts about at the movies. There's actually some objections.

I'd love to throw some your way. And Jenna would love to answer some of these objections as well. Every year, every year around this time, because, you know, Lake Point's not the only church that does this. So every year around this time, it will certainly happen this year, I guarantee it, is, you know, becomes like a topic of internet discussion. Actually, people that I love and respect, they think I'm. I'm an idiot for doing this is not a fan of this kind of thing.

There you go. And so I would love to just, I would like to make a defense. Well, let me, let me channel in my inner troll right now for like one minute. Are these your objections? No, no, no, they're not. For people wondering, these are not. Before you do this, can I give, can I give my explanation for why we do it? What is at the moment?

And I think it is not only, I think it is not only strategically wise and logically defensible, I think it's biblical. So let me tell you what, for a long time, I used to think in this kind of stuff was stupid. If you're unfamiliar with that, the movies, what it is. Here's our little tagline is that, it's when we use movies to illustrate biblical truths. So let me just get ahead of something. We don't preach movies. We use movies to illustrate biblical truths in the same way that just like when any of us

are writing a Bible study or like a sermon, we have illustrations in the sermon. You'll tell a story. You'll share a joke. You have an object lesson. basically we do it at the movies. We're using modern day stories, movies, to illustrate biblical truth. So there's some illustration.

So here, let me tell you the story of the moment when I was like, we're doing this, okay? So for a listen, I'm a kind of a bit, I'm a Lord of the Rings nerd. I've read Lord of the Rings 13 times now. It's, I'll wake up in the middle of the night between 2 and 4 a.m. And I need something to read myself back to sleep.

And it's my comfort, it's my little blanket. So I've read it like 13 times now. So here, this true story. who has heard the story of how C.S. Lewis became a Christian? Have you heard this? Okay. All right. So here, I'll give the, here's a quick snapshot. C.S. Lewis was a hardcore committed atheist, his entire, growing up, young adult, into adulthood. In 1931, C.S. Lewis and J.R. Tolkien, and I got named Hugo Dyson. They were all on staff at Oxford. So they're Ivy League professors. All three of them, I think, were teaching some form of literature, English, you know, that kind of thing. So here's what happens. So J.R. Tolkien was a committed, spirit-filled love Jesus Christian. C.S. Lewis was his one more.

So, like, he develops this relationship with C.S. Lewis. C.S. Lewis is his one more, hardened atheist. So I'm going to read this to you. So here's what happens. On September 28th, wait, I'm skipping ahead. I don't want to do that yet. Okay. So, what, uh, no, that's, that's in a second.

Yeah. So these three guys are taking a walk. C.S. Lewis, J.R. Tolkien and Hugo Dyson. Actually, go ahead and throw that picture up there. The picture of the little, that's it. This picture right here. All right. So this is literally the road where what I'm getting ready to describe happened. All right. This is, uh, uh, it's somewhere. This is where this, this happened. Okay. So J.R. Tolkien is, C.S. Lewis, is talking to Jared Tolkien and Hugo Dyson about, he was fascinated with, they called him fairy stories. We call him fairy tales, they call them fairy stories. And this was what, he was a professor of medieval literature, and he starts noticing like, man, in all these different cultures and all these different times all over the world, they all have the same fairy tales.

And they all came up independent of each other. You know, it's like the brave prince slays the dragon and gets the girl, or the, you know, the king from a far off country comes and kisses sleeping beauty and awakens her from the sleep of death. And they're like, man, all these fairy tales are the same. So they're on this walk on that road right there. And J.R. Tolkien, a Christian, begins explaining to C.S. Lewis that the reason all the stories are the same is because there's a story that's underneath every story. and that the Bible says that God has, quote, put eternity into the hearts of man. And that the reason those stories resonate with the human heart is because those are the stories that are faint echoes of the true story underneath all the stories.

And he explained to C.S. Lewis that that's the gospel. And this is the language he used. He told C.S. Lewis that the gospel is the quote, it's the true myth. And when he said myth, he didn't mean something that didn't happen. when he said myth, he means like something that has explanatory power for the world. And so he just starts explaining this. That is the true myth, the story underneath all the stories. Now stop and think about this for a second.

And he starts explaining things like, hey, man, why do you think the stories that capture our hearts are about the brave prince that kills the dragon against the girl? Like literally the book of revelation is the story of Jesus, the prince of the universe, the son. son of the sovereign lord of the most high, coming to slay the dragon of sin, death, and Satan and whisking away his bride, the church, kill the dragon, get the girl. Why do you think it's stories about, you know, a prince from a far off country that comes in and awakens the sleeping beauty with a kiss of, you know, whatever. And he's like, dude, like the Bible, he didn't say dude, G. R. Tolkien Pride didn't say him in like the Bible. He said, lad, he said, lie. Yeah. We lad. We lad. We lad. Janet thinks that's a funny British thing. I wouldn't inquire

It's because you're a wee person. He's explaining and he explains like, hey man, like that's the story that Jesus is the prince, the king from a far off country of heaven. They came and he awakened us. The Bible says that we were under the sleep of death and sin and he awakened us from those things. It's really interesting. If you think about the movies that resonate the most deeply in the human heart, like I

grew up on Braveheart, you know, all the stories is somebody dies, they lay down their life in a fight to set captives free from slavery and tyranny. That's the gospel. Think about even Lord of the Rings when Jared Tolkien writes Lord of the Rings. So think about this from a Christian perspective. Here's the story of Lord of the Rings. All of Middle Earth lies under the power of an evil one. It's now fallen from its original glory because of his influence. Then I'm going to show my nerd here for a second. than a humble, unexpected underdog hero from a place that nobody would expect, a hobbit from the shire, you know, is chosen.

He takes the burden of the whole world onto himself. You even have this theme of like Gandalf in the story, total spoiler alert, dies and is resurrected as Gandalf the white. He even has that spot. Here's again, super nerd, where it's like at the Battle of Helms Deep, it's like the defining moment of book two, where he just tells Aragorn, who by the way, is the return of the king.

Aragorn is the long-lost king that comes back to set the kingdom back in order. And he tells him in the story, he's like, hey, man, just when you think the battle is going to be lost, at the dawn of the fifth day, look to the east, and you'll see me crest the hill in white. And there it is, dude, the dead and resurrected one, because it's so awesome, man. And then you even have the whole thing. Erigorn is the true king that returns. He defeats the enemy against all odds and he restores the kingdom to its original glory. Even movies like The Matrix, I literally do this forever. Like all the movies that capture people and the stories, if you look close enough, they all have these echoes of

the gospel. So J.R. Tolkien explains this to his one more, C.S. Lewis. And then I'm going to read to you, this is a letter that C.S. Lewis wrote later in his life about his conversion to Christianity. This is what he said. just nine days after, I'm going to read this whole thing. This is somebody writing about it. Just nine days after Lewis's conversation with Tolkien on Christ being the true myth, Lewis took the final step in embracing the divinity of Christ while writing in his older brother's motorcycle sidecar on the way to newly open Wipsnid Park Zoo in Bedfordshire. He recounts, and this is what Lewis said,

I know very well when, but not how the final step was taken. I was driven a whipsnod one sunny morning. When we set out, I did not believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. And when we reached the zoo, I did. Yet I had not exactly spent the journey in thought. And he just took that final step and spent the rest of his life as a very bold Christian. So anyway, that's fascinating. Honestly, the penny dropped for me when it's like, okay,

if showing that the story underneath every story is the gospel worked for C.S. I guess Lewis, I bet it's going to work for a bunch of lost people now. We should do that in movies. Okay. Okay. Now, you guys got to chime in. Oh, yeah, please. Yes.

Well, I think the fear, you were going to say. No, no, go ahead. I think the fear of some people is that some churches or sometimes when we try to make the gospel like attractive and understandable and relatable, we tend or we can be tempted to dilute it. Yes. But I think you can do both. You can make the gospel like understandable, like relatable, attractive, and even fun without diluting it.

I mean, you're not going to remove the confrontational parts or like the uncomfortable parts. Like you're just using an illustration or you're using just like the environment to bring people in and then you're going to hit them with the real gospel. So I think that's the balance because sometimes churches and some churches do that. Like in order to attract new people, they diluted and make it like they read light. We are not doing that. I don't know about other churches, but we are not doing that. So I think that's a tension that some people can feel sometimes. Yeah.

Yeah, Pamela, but what about... I love what you do. But why do you guys need to use secular movies to bring people into a space to talk about spiritual, sacred, holy things? All right. Well, let me just say... Listen, Josh, there's no communion between the darkness and the light. It's just the two don't go together. Yeah, I totally agree.

Yeah. Let me say a few things. One, we're not pre, again, I just want to be clear on this. We're not preaching movies. We're using movies to illustrate biblical truths. We're preaching the Bible. And then you, I love your little face. Your face.

I'm ready to do. Keep going. We're using movies to illustrate bill of which, using stories to illustrate biblical truths. So here's what I would say is like, hey man, quit trying to be holier than Jesus. I think that's like literally. like literally Jesus' primary way of teaching was parables. And a lot of people don't know this.

There are reputable historians from the first century that say some of Jesus parables were actually stories that were already popular before Jesus came. And then Jesus, like, would remix the ending. Or he would just do it a little different. Or he would show how that story pointed to a spiritual truth. That's literally what we're doing. He was taking popular stories and then using them to illustrate biblical truths. Yeah, so go ahead, Jenna.

Well, and I think about, I don't know, whenever I'm reading the parables or somebody's telling you a story, it's kind of like, it gives me an opportunity that I feel like invited into that. It gives me a chance to reflect on what is being said. And like, just thinking as you read the parables, then you're thinking, okay, how do I apply this to my life? What is the spiritual truth that God is teaching me here? And so I think it just gives an opportunity to just to search your heart and for God to speak to you and to open you up to what he's saying.

Yeah. And we're also not using movies with like, you know, like horror movies. Like we're not using like our movies. You're not. We're not playing The Exorcists. No, we're not. Okay. No, okay.

Keep going. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I see that. But at the same time, if whatever you attract people, with, now you have to keep them with. So like if you have movies, people are like, oh, let's go watch movies, sure.

And then it's like, okay, it's just entertainment. And people are basically just, you know, looking for those things. And that's not what church is supposed to be. I don't agree. I mean, like, I think Jesus attracted them with the story or attracting them like by feeding them, like fish and bread. But then they stayed because of the gospel,

because their lives were changed. So I don't think we have to keep giving them the same in order to keep them keep them in the church. You can attract it with an event, with a, you know, a creative stuff, but then when their lives are changed, they're going to stay because of Jesus, because of the gospel, because of what they found here. So I disagree with that. So this is this objection, what you win them with is what you win them to. So this is, I'm going to church nerd for a second here. That comes from like my little reformed church nerd team that I grew up in in ministry.

That's where that phrase came from. What you win them with is what you win them to. I just completely disagree with it. And I actually don't think that the people who say it, they don't actually agree with it. I actually think it's an example. It's called the Eat and Rosen phenomenon. It's a rhetorical thing that people tend to believe something when it rhymes just because it rhymes. It's called the Eat and Rosen phenomenon.

What you win them with? What you win them do? And you're like, oh, well, that sounds good because it rhymes. Profound. Yeah, it was like, you know, one, I want to point out what Pamela just said, huge crowds followed Jesus because he told parables, healed the sick, fed the hungry. People didn't run up to Jesus and be like, Jesus, quit healing people. What you win them with is what you win them to.

Things want to be healed now. Now they're not listening to your actual just Bible teaching because, you know, that kind of thing. And then the other thing I would say to people to say that is, man, if you actually believe that, you need to remove all the AC units and microphones from your church because, man, what you win them with is what you win them to, Carlos. So I just don't think that's true. Okay. Yeah, and some people might say, man, but it just feels weird. It's just, it's not what church is supposed to be. And I've been to church for my, I'm a Christian for my whole life. And I just don't like, I feel a little uncomfortable with it. What would you say? I think that church can be fun. I mean, like my kids love coming to church. They love at the movies. They know these not, I mean, the characters or what, you know, the decorations are not the most important thing. But they love it because, you know, it's fun for them. So why do we have to make churches so. like serious and boring and just to keep it holy. Like you can have fun and be holy at the same

time. Like Jesus had fun. He was even a little bit of sarcasm. Like good holy sarcasm. Jesus was funny. Yeah. I think so. Theologians will say that, you know, we don't talk about this often, but these theologians will say like Jesus actually was way funnier than people give him credit for. Yeah. So I don't, I don't see anything wrong. Like we're not like, how do you say, cursing the church because we put a funny or something decorator. or like characters, like, we're not, we're not making it own holy. We're just making it fun. And I don't think, I don't see anything wrong with that. I mean, as long as we keep it. So I think, you know, what you're kind of getting at is, man, it just kind of feels like there's a lack of reverence for the holiness, that kind of thing.

I just want to point out what's really holy to God is the salvation of sinners. That's what's really holy to God is the salvation of sinners. It's literally that exactly same attitude that Jesus rebuked when he was going, hey man, did you know there's more rejoicing in heaven when one says, and repents than when 99 persons just remain really holy and righteous. Did you know that? He's rebuking that same kind of Pharisee spirit. The other thing I would say is some people say, oh, it's really entertainment driven, really worldly. Well, whenever somebody says to that, I'm always like, what do you mean?

So are you, you don't want it to be entertaining. Okay, what's the opposite of entertaining? Boring. So is that what you want for me? Like just to make it as boring as we possibly can. And the other thing I would say is, well, hey, somebody would go, well, that's not how church is supposed to be. First of all, you know, this is, we do this like for four weeks a year. It's like, we don't do it all year? Usually I'm preaching exegetically, verse by verse

through books of the Bible. But I would say, man, here's, here's how church is supposed to be. It's supposed to be where you go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them named the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything that he's commanded. So, man, it's that little phrase of, hey, man, let's do anything short of sin to reach people for Christ in order to reach some people that nobody's reaching. You got to do some things. not everybody else is doing. So we're good with it. We're good. That's amazing. And by the grace of God, I can't remember the last year, what number, how many people give their lives? We saw so many people give their life to Christ. Over 2,000 people. Over 2,000. Indicated a first time decision.

That's amazing. That's amazing. Well, praise God for that. We love that. Well, man, let's go in. Let's go. At the movies, Week 1, man, there's a theme in this week's movie about how God uses misfits. And this is something that you see in scripture all throughout. And so it's interesting, the verse that was mentioned in the sermon is Acts chapter 4, verse 13, where it says people recognize that Peter and John, quote, had been with Jesus. It's interesting. The word to describe Peter and John in the Greek is idiotai, which is where we get the word idiot. It doesn't mean idiot.

It just means ordinary or a lay person. And so this is basically, you know, God uses ordinary. people. He's not looking for extraordinary people or like super talented, man, let's, let's go there. Why? Why would God do that? Why is that a theme that we see in scripture? Me? Well, I think because that way he can be more glorified. Like if I was like a superstar by myself, I wouldn't need God. I wouldn't need Jesus to work through me because I got it all together. So I think the more you realize of your own, you know, brokenness and lack of, you know, abilities on your own or whatever, like the more God can use you and be glorified through you, right?

Yeah, I mean, that's like, so I'm going to read this, let me read a verse and then tell a quick story. So this is, actually, let me start here. So if you're going, why? Okay. So there's an old, he's with the Lord now, like one of the great preachers of the generation before us, Adrian Rogers from Memphis, Tennessee. Actually, I got to spend a day with Dr. Rogers before he passed.

It was amazing. This is a savage sermon illustration. This is one of those things like, I've heard he did this. If he really did this, that was savage. So he's preaching on this concept on the verse that answers your question. I'm going to read here in a second. And according to legend in his sermon, he asked everyone in the room. He was like, man, I want to do something.

I want to honor some people. And he was like, man, if you were the valedictorian, or the salutatorian of your class. Would you please stand up? A bunch of people stand. And he's like, man, you stay standing. Now, if you were voted most likely to anything, would you go ahead and stand right now

and you all, like, people are proudly standing in it, you know? It's like, well, class presidents, would you all stand with these other people and they all stand? If you were the captain of your team, you know, growing up, would you, and, you know, a good portion of the room is standing, and they're all standing, they're very proud. And then supposedly, right there with everybody standing, he said, now to everybody standing up, we're all very impressed with your accomplice. And then he said,

but you need to know this. The people that God is most likely to use are the people sitting down next to you. And then he read this verse from 1 Corinthians that answers your question. Why does God consistently use the misfit, the outsider, whatever? This is, I'm going to read, it's four verses, track with me. Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were. When you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards. Not many were influential. Not many were of noble birth. But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise. God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. And God chose the lowly things of this world and the despise things, the things that are not to nullify the things that are. Now here's the answer to

question verse 29 so that no one may boast before him it is because of god that you are in christ jesus who has become for us the wisdom of god that is our righteousness holiness and redemption therefore as it is written let the one who boast boast in the lord now here's what he's saying the whole theme of the bible is the glory of god that's why do god why does anything happen for the glory of God. When something amazing happens and somebody amazing did it, people give the amazing person the glory. When something amazing happens, but somebody really ordinary was used to do it, people go, man, that must have been God. And he gets the glory. So that's why all throughout the Bible, the whole Bible is the story of God choosing the last person you'd ever expect. And they'd do

extraordinary things through an ordinary person by the power of his extraordinary spirit. That's why. I also think it's because, like, you know, whenever you feel like you are that misfit and you are in that place, you're going to rely upon the Lord and not on yourself. And so supernatural things happen whenever you are like, God, I can't do this. This is too big for me. It has to be you. So you're not making it about you.

You're not making it about your gifting. you're making about what God can do. That's exactly right. That's the second Corinthians passage where Paul's, it's his Thorn in the Flesh Passions passage. And specifically, he said, my grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect and weakness.

That's the whole thing. The whole point of that passage is that weakness is actually an advantage if dependence is the goal. The whole life, the whole Christian life is just dependence on God. And actually, when that's the goal, then any weaknesses you have, they're like, oh man, I'm going to have to lean into

the Lord here. Well, that all of a sudden becomes an advantage because it drives you, like the little Charles Spurgeon quote, I have learned to kiss the wave that cast me against the rock of ages. There it is. This is how you know also the Bible is not something made up by men. Like if you think about history, all throughout history, most cultures have valued strength, honor, people that have been gifted, that have accomplished many things. And then you look at God, the God of the Bible. He does the opposite. He looks at the weak, the broken.

And when you see that, if somebody's listening right now, what's the point? The point is, this is good news. That God looks at people that are broken and weak, and he wants to fill them with his presence and invite them into relationship and use them for purposes that are extraordinary. That's great news. This is what you see all throughout scripture. these are broke, all the quote unquote heroes of the faith are actually very much broken, fearful, insecure, sinful, dysfunctional. And if God can use them, he can use you.

That's exactly right. He's inviting you. Do you can, so let me, a lot of, I don't think people realize how heavy that theme is. Can I give some examples real quick? So like I just, I just jotted these down on the way in. All right. So this is like a biblical theological theme. I think a lot of people miss. So a couple examples. So in the Old Testament, it's in ancient Hebrew culture, it's called, sociologists call it primogeniture. What that means is that an ancient Hebrew paternalistic cultures, the firstborn son was always the one that was chosen and that the family inheritance, the lion's share of it went to. He kind of took on the family. So think about who does God choose? You get Jacob and Esau, and he breaks the primogeniture pattern. And he goes, man,

Jacob, the younger son I loved, but Esau, the older son, I hated. That's a Bible verse that a lot of people don't love. He chooses the younger son. He breaks it. I'll give you another one. Think about beauty. We're cultures that can be obsessed with beauty. You get the whole Leah and Rachel thing. And you've got specifically talks about beautiful Rachel is and, you know, work seven years. years just because she's so beautiful and he wants to be married to her. And then it actually says, Leah, not so much. I wouldn't talk about both of them. She had pretty eyes. She had weak eyes. She had weak eyes. She had weak eyes. She had weak eyes. Very delicately put. Yeah, that's a, that's a Hebrew way of saying she had a great personality. That's what that is. And but who is it

that God chooses to bring the lion of the Messiah through? He chooses Leah, the one that wasn't the beauty queen. Very interesting. If you go, like, we miss this because we're a monotheistic world in culture, but in a polytheistic world where every nation had their own gods and goddesses, all the other nations' gods and goddesses, they identified with the powerful. It was like, they're the god of kings and military conquest, that kind of thing.

When you read the scriptures, God's like, oh, here's who I'm the god of, the lowly, the widow. the orphan, that's who I'm. Even go, man, I could, gosh, I could just keep going forever and ever. David, he's the seventh son. Dad doesn't even bring him in from the pasture. And then this is very interesting. When you read the Psalms David wrote,

the primary way David thinks about himself, he says it over and over, hear a Lord and answer me, for I am poor and needy. even after he became the most powerful, wealthy person in the nation. How he thought of himself was that, you know, I'm poor and needy. And that's why God continued to use him because he was just dependent. And then the last one I'll do is just Jesus. I mean, could anything good come from Nazareth?

It's backwards, middle of nowhere kind of thing. And then honestly, a lot of people know this, we have a Bible verse that tells us Jesus was almost certainly ugly. This is it verse in Isaiah. No form of majesty that should attract us to him. There was nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. So there's this theme. God chooses the outsider, the misfit.

So what do we do? We're beautiful. I love it. I don't know. Why don't you guys tell us? No. We don't know. We don't know.

And I love it that I think even in your, I mean, you learn to appreciate your weak. or your thorn, whatever it is. I mean, you still wish there was another way, but you learn to appreciate it because it makes you depend on him. Like, you learn to appreciate it and I love it and be grateful for it because you know, and you have the absolute certainty that is not because of you, but it's just the grace of God that, you know, took you to those places

or to do whatever it is that you do. Like, I think that's the beauty of it. Well, hey, guys, one of the reasons we are intentional in creating this kind of podcast episodes is because we believe that discipleship happens in relationships. Having said that, what we want to do through the Live Free podcast is model what it looks like to be in a discipleship group where we come together and open up the Word of God and honestly just grow together as followers of Jesus to live free in Christ. And so for this reason, we love that you're tuning in, but honestly, we don't just want you

to be a passive listener, we want you to be an active participant. And so if you have not yet joined the group, whether in person or online, I want to challenge you to test drive one. And so to do that, just text the word group to 20411 or go to lake point.compt.com slash groups because listen, you're not one podcast away, one habit away, one decision away, one book away, one sermon away. Listen, you are one relationship away to experience freedom in Christ in community. And now, let's get back to the podcast. Well, it's interesting because in this verse here, talking about John and Peter, they were, quote, idiotic in Greek, also as ordinary people. The Bible says that people recognize that they've been with Jesus because of their courage and boldness.

And so when God chooses you and maybe somebody's listening, they're like, well, yeah, I'm pretty dysfunctional. Well, guess what? You change when you meet Jesus. God works in you. My power becomes perfect in you and within you. God works in you. And so if you feel, man, I'm kind of weak or I'm kind of a little bit of a coward. Well, guess what?

God wants to fill you with His presence so that you can become more like Christ. And so that's good news. God chooses you for a purpose. And so I love to dive in. Man, if somebody's listening right now and they're asking, okay, great. So God chooses me even though I'm weak. and there is a purpose for my life, how do I discover that calling? If God is specifically calling me for something that's extraordinary,

beyond my capacity and my ability, how do I figure out what that is? I think this is one of the, were you going to say something, Jan? I do, I mean, I do have things to say. Well, go for it. Yeah. I think, you know, first of all, you need to remain in him. So you need to be seeking him. And, you know, in the word, you need to have that person.

relationship because everyone God used in scripture, like they, I mean, they knew they couldn't be doing these things on their own. So they were constantly seeking him and asking God for his direction and what he wanted. And so you need to be in that personal relationship with Christ. And so just like John the Baptist, how he was always like, he, I must decrease, he must increase. And so that's what you want. You want to cultivate that relationship with the Lord to where you're changing. Like you don't come to Christ and. stay the same because God is constantly sanctifying you, growing you, making you new. He makes like all things new. And so first I think that's where you've got to start. You want to grow your

relationship with Christ. And as you're doing that, you know, God's going to direct your path and he's going to like kind of help you see like your gifts and how the spiritual gifts that he's given you, the people around you can help identify those things. And, you, you're going to, you you and as you start to use them it's kind of like you see the places where you come alive like where like when you are serving the lord where like is there just a natural overflow in what you're doing and like start serving there and then just keep keep doing that yeah man this is i think so first of all that last thing you just said i think this is huge people like the biggest thing i think somebody's got internalize is you are never going to be happy and you're never going to be

filled in your life until you discover what God put you on this planet to do and you're doing it. So, you know, the Bible says that God put us on this planet, he created us for good works, that he prepared in advance for us to do. So there are some things that for Pamela, Carlos, Jan, Josh, there are things that he planned before he made me. And then he made me with the intention of discovering that calling and then stepping into it. it and then, you know, discovering it and fulfilling that calling. So you just got to understand you're never going to be happy until you figure out what that is and you're doing it. I think that's big. Now the question is, I think most people are like, great, God chooses the misfit the

outsider and I need to figure out what that is. How do I do it? That's the question we're trying to answer. When we were growing up, you guys remember spiritual gifts tests? They're mildly helpful. I've never. They're like a Myers-Briggs. Christian version, that's a starting point. Yeah, you're a starting point. You know, are mildly helping. You get what you paid for for you online on Google?

That's it. I have a friend. It's a true story that two people, they took one of the spiritual gifts test. And so that, you know, they asked you to say, hey man, what did you get? I was like, man, I got martyred them, which is great, but you can only use it once.

And then you're done, you know? I thought you were going to say, but I don't want to write a lot. So then the other guys, he's like, well, what did you get? He's like, well, I got celibacy. And he's like, I think I'd rather have martyrdom. This is the little joke. But so, you know, you got to figure out what is a good way.

So I'll give, let me say a good framework that I'll use to help people figure out what God put you on this planet to do. And then once you guys add comments, agree, disagree, you know, wherever you think. By the way, I got this from Tim Keller. Basically, if you just look for three things, whatever it is in your life that it's at the intersection of affinity, ability, and opportunity. Affinity, ability, opportunity, okay? So affinity, that's that like, honestly, just go, what are you passionate about? What do you have an affinity for? Actually, what's helpful on discovering affinity that I found is actually if you frame it in the negative, what can I not stand?

What is it like? I almost have a righteous anger about this. So my predecessor, Pastor Steve, he used to say, I've heard him say this a million times. He's like, man, I figured out I should pastor a church because what I literally cannot stand is churches that don't make sense. Churches that just like, it doesn't make any sense why you're doing it that way. And it would just provoke him. And he was like, oh, okay. Well, I obviously have an affinity for churches that do make sense. Maybe I should do that. So number one, affinity. Then number two, you're going, okay.

Can I interrupt you? Please do. Somebody's asking, I just like so many different things. How do I know this? This bothers me and I'm passionate about this and that other thing really captivates me. How would you, what would you say to that person? I'm so glad you asked.

Let me go to the second. There you go. So you're looking for something that checks all three of these boxes, not just one. Okay. Number two is ability. Okay. So not just affinity. What do I love doing?

But also ability, because we just read it. So the book of as First Corinthians talks about this, Ephesians talked about this, that when you become a Christian, the Holy Spirit comes to live inside of you and he distributes spiritual gifts, supernatural abilities that we all use together to build up the body of Christ.

So you have one of those. You just got to figure out what it is. That's a supernatural ability. By the, I'll just give a shout out here. We're launching rooted our discipleship mechanism in a few weeks. Like, it's a big deal. We've already had, I think, over a thing,

over a thousand lake pointers go through it. It's going to be a big, big deal. This is how we decide people. There's like literally a whole week on discovering your calling and spiritual gifts that helps with this. So may condense it, okay? So not just affinity, but ability.

So what I mean by this, I'm going to be really gentle here. You guys probably don't have this problem in a lake point in a spaniel, but every now and then, you'll run into the person who, they're like, man, I've got this spiritual gift of singing, but nobody seems to have the spiritual gift

of wanting to listen to them. That's a gentle way to say that. Well, hey man, that's probably not your spiritual gift. That's probably not it. So it's not just what do you love to do. It's what has God made you good at? That's the thing. When I was growing up, like the reason I'm doing what I'm doing today is Jeff

Carlisle, my youth pastor that set me and Jana up on a blind date. When I was like 15 years old, he looked at me and he was like, Josh, you know what I see in you? when you explain the Bible, people want to listen. So I think you're asking the second question, what do me and the people around me see that I'm good at? So affinity ability. Now here's the third one, is opportunity.

You're just going, hey, where is there the highest need in the body of Christ that I'm a part of? So the apostle Paul said, he went where, quote, a wide door of effective service had been open to him. So sometimes the third thing you need to do is just look around whatever church God's put you in and go, where is there the greatest need? Where is there a wide open door where, man, energy expended here is going to have a

disproportionate help on the body I'm a part of? So those three things. What is at the intersection of affinity, ability, opportunity, there's your calling? Thoughts, agreements, disagreements. One thing I would just add is one thing we do with our girls is we just have them try a bunch of different places of service. And so, like, if you're really lost, you've kind of, you've done those things and you still don't know where to go, just try. Each week, try a different place. And then you might find something you really, really love and you really come alive and God uses you best there.

So I would suggest that too. And I would only add to like, like, sometimes we are like, well, this is my gift or this is my call. I'm a call to be a pastor. I'm called to teach or whatever. And then you're not willing to do anything else. Yeah. Or because I enjoy doing these things, but I don't want, I don't enjoy serving in kids ministry. And, you know, there's our greatest need right now.

But, oh, yeah, but I teach, you know. So, like, I think also be willing to just fulfill needs. Like, in my case, I've heard of people that they. knew they were going to be a pastor or like God called them to Africa. And it was like very clear to them. For me, it was never like that. For me, it was just, I love the Lord. I love the church.

I just wanted to serve in the church. And I've done like literally everything in the church, you know, to being an assistant, a secretary, to working in groups, like serving in any capacity. Some things I didn't enjoy them, but I was just, I knew I was fulfilling a need. And then I found something that I really enjoyed and the time was right and I was able to do it. So my point is don't just wait on working on your gifts or in your abilities or like, you know, whatever serves your calling. Just be willing to fulfill needs that are right in front of you. And you may find something that you, you would be surprised.

That's right. Yeah. And take of what you just said, Pamela, I think, you know, our generation is very much so, like, let me find my thing. Let me find what I'm really passionate about. And, you know, that's why a lot of people, especially like our younger generation, they kind of hop jobs like every six months is like, oh, I don't. I like this person or this is not fulfilling to me.

Well, you've only been there for like six months. You probably need to get a little bit more time. And so, and that's one. Two, serving is not ultimately about you. Serving is about like the need that's in front of you. And so I think it's a good reminder. I'll say for me, when I first got to Lake Point, I remember, you know, my wife and I were looking for a church, basically.

And I remember having a conversation with Pastor Paul Lewis. And I just basically literally said, Paul, whatever I can be helpful. Like, we're happy to do that. you know, this is where I jumped into a student ministry. And there are some things that you do as a student pastor, part-time student pastor that I was not necessarily, like I didn't think I'd be doing those things, but that was the need that we had at the time.

And that was great. Like this is, you know, this is kind of, this is what my mentality should be no matter what the season is. Man, if there's a need, I'm, I want to, if I can help to meet it, that's kind of part of my calling for this season. And that's probably another thing I'd say that every season might have a different assignment.

Yes. Yes. So there's a calling and there's an assignment. Right? And so I think some people think, oh, I'm going to be stuck in this thing. And is this really my calling? I don't really like what I do. Well, maybe that's an assignment for the season.

And maybe you have to be faithful doing what you've been called to do in this season because God might actually move you towards the next thing in a different season if you are faithful in where you are. And also like I met people that like, I don't know, I'm called to be a pastor. Okay. But what is going to get you there? Like sometimes like, well, if I'm not hired to be a pastor, I don't. or if I'm not put on a stage to preach because that's my ultimate calling, then I'm not willing to do that.

Like, you know, there's steps, their areas, their preparation time. So like, that's what I'm talking about. Just be willing to serve and, you know. That's what I want to, so like, honestly, Carlos, I want to honor you. So that, I think that's why God's used you like, like he has. So, like, a lot of people don't know this, but you just alluded to it. When I first met Carlos, dude, he wasn't leading church online. He wasn't hosting a live free podcast.

podcast. There wasn't like, you know, you've taught main stage in weekend services twice this year. That's not what you're doing. You, you, even though, and again, you just make, make you feel awkward, even though like you had a massive online platform, like 900,000 YouTube subscribers and, you know, the world has 8 billion people in it, but you had 10 billion, you know, followers on Instagram. This is crazy. Even though that's, you were already doing that. When I found, you on our staff. Dude, you were a part-time student guy at our Mesquite campus, and you were just happy to be serving and discipling. How many students a week you think? We had like a solid 15. There you got. Yeah, yeah. We loved every single one of them. Yeah, dude. And you were just

faithfully serving. And here's the big idea is there's a reason the Bible says, when you're faithful with a little, then I'll give you much. And you do see what Pamela just said is like, man, I hope this doesn't sound weird. But like, sometimes people like grab me in the lobby and they're like, hey, Pastorash, I want to do what you do. I want to, you know, I just think I would have so much fun speaking at conferences or, you know, da-da-da. And I'm like, that's great, man. But here, you see that. What you didn't see is where I started. I started in high school when I was 15. just walking into the student ministry and asking if I could teach

a middle school boys life group when I was 16. And I wanted to be faithful will. And I studied all week so that I could disciple eight middle school boys on Wednesday. And then when I got to college, I was leading a,

actually they were called life groups at Union also. And it was 12 freshmen that I was disciplining and teaching. And then I walked into, the Nelson Baptist Association little building. And nobody wanted me to preach. I was terrible. But I just was like, man, you know,

this is something that's in my heart. And I just said, if there's any little country Baptist church that needs somebody to come preach on a Wednesday night, you tell me when and I'll be there. And, you know, the people in our lobby, they didn't see you when I was walking in. And literally, I remember preaching to six people,

at a little backroads Baptist church, and they were all sitting as far away from me as they possibly could, but I preached my heart out because I was doing it for the Lord and not unto men. But it's that thing of you've got to be faithful with a little and then God entrust you with much. And so, you know, for somebody who has like Pamela just said,

like I have these big, big dream. What I would say is, man, dream big but start small. That's great. Have a great God-sized vision for your life. Please. but be willing to start small and be faithful with a little so that he can entrust you as much. That's good, man.

And to honor you, honestly, people want to do what you do, but they don't want to pay the price that you've paid. And that's, you know, again, for you, Josh, to, you know, you've shared a little bit about your story, but for you to get to where God has you today, and there's been some work and there's been some, some, a cost to you, your family. And so, and again, this is, this is why the process is necessary.

This is why the season that God has you in, no matter who you are, God is refining you. It's refining your character. And so, again, there's a reason why God has you where you guys are because you guys have been faithful as well. And God has worked within you so that today you're ready to be where God has you right now. Dude, let me just, I want to say one more thing. Because I do want to, I want to disciple us out of the very American idea that it's only a big deal if a whole lot of people watch you do it.

So like that is completely contrary to the theme of the New Testament. What Jesus said was your father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. And so like I do want to like, hey, watch out, especially if you got, you like, you're raised in that American dream. Like, man, came from nothing and got real famous and rich. Like sometimes we can map that on to like spiritual calling. and the kingdom works different than that. And so like, man, like that middle school boys life group leader

that disciples eight guys every Wednesday night or that kids ministry leader that walks in and they walk in going, I'm going to be a spiritual mother. This is not child care for me. I'm going to be a spiritual mother to these kids. like you may end up changing eternity because of what you do in secret in that little classroom. So like I do just want to like, hey, watch out, watch out that you don't only think it's a big deal if a whole bunch of people see you do it. We weren't planning on talk about this, but I have a thought on that.

I think because I ask God to bring conviction to my heart to make sure that my motivation is always in the right place. And so I think, again, it's not just about what you do. It's about the motivation in your heart, which is what you're saying. anytime you see in scripture people concerned about oh how many people were there did they like me did I get enough applaud am I being esteemed highly let me give you some examples of the people that do that in the Bible King Saul well buddy he wrestled with comparison envy and popularity

he started to compare himself with David and then he started feeling a little envious he was a little too concerned with that the result was he ended up with paranoia rage and ultimately he lost the anointing the Pharisees they were very much concerned about being seen in front of people and Jesus strongly rebukes them for their hypocrisy

and their pride King Herod he wanted to be worshipped like a God this is not an awesome list nope this is a pretty bad list God strikes him down and he's eaten by warms Pontius Pilate again I can keep going

there's a whole list and so whenever I find myself like you know when I find myself concerned about I think I'm wearing it. I might be paying too much attention instead of actually focusing on serving other people and meeting other people's needs. I'm like, I go back to this list

and be like, man, that's a different team right there. I don't want to be in this list. By the grace of God, Lord, help me submit my heart to be with a posture of surrender and not entitlement, but just how can I serve other people? Come on, man. Sometimes as part of my work at the church, like I make phone calls to the people that visit us

from the first time or like people to invite people to our discipleship program. And it's amazing to me whenever I talk to them and say, why do you come to a late point in in Spanish or why did you stay or whatever? They're always saying, well, this person at the door received me so welcoming and they were so happy about it. Or like, I attended this live group and then I was at the hospital and they visited me at the hospital and was like, wow, they care about me.

They rarely mention like, oh, the sermon was amazing. Oh, like the singers were great. Like they always mentioned the things that are not so public or like so seen. So, like, those are the things that make a huge impact on people and that they never forget. They forget about sermons every week. That's right. But they never forget about the people that really serve them or, like, were willing to fulfill and eat in their lives. Amen.

Yeah. It's a tangible, like, experience of Christ. And you don't lose that. You don't forget that. That's great. Man, that's really good. Now, we'll say, I'll give a plug here. If somebody is sitting there and they're like, okay,

dude, I'm in. I need to figure it out. What they need to do is they need to text the word serve to the number 20411. Text serve to 20411 and figure out that spot where it's like, okay, man, I'm going to step in and make an eternal difference somewhere in the body of Christ. They need to do that. Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know God, find freedom, discover calling, and make a difference. We want you to make a difference. We are here to help in any way we can. There's opportunity to serve here at Lake Point. So there you go. You're going to talk about Brandon Lake? Let's talk about Brandon Lake.

Come on, man. This is a few weeks ago. Yeah. I'm interested because we did not sink on what all of us were going to say about this. We're bringing this back because it's been, I think it's been like a month or so. But when this happened, I'll be honest. I don't know how this made me, this made me a little hot. I was like, girl, I don't like this.

Okay. So, all right. You want to set the stage? Yeah, I mean, there's a video. So, you know, Brandon Lake is probably one of the, probably one of the more famous voices right now in the worship space, Christian worship space. So this is a video and a podcast. I love some of the stuff he's done lately. Hardfire. Hallelujah. He wrote. Oh, that's a song. He's amazing. Yeah. Great song. I love it. I mean, he's written. He's been in spaces as well. I mean, I think Jimmy Kimmel. He's, he's on

Jimmy Kennel? Jimmy Kennel. I thought he was. Really? I'm pretty sure he was. Or Jimmy Fallon, one of the one of the Jimmy's. One of the Jimmy's. One of the Jimmy's. Dude, his song, gratitude? You know gratitude? I do know gratitude. That was like when we were on vacation a few weeks ago. Yes. That was like my vacation beach playlist, like just gratitude, man. There's no doubt God has used, Brandon. He went viral recently because of a clip that was the beta. It sparked a heated debate, so let's check out the clip. The internet did this thing. I'd love to see more worship sets, more churches, like kind of keep Bubba in mind. The guy who's like in the back of the room, he got dragged there by his wife. When your opening song,

or the most of your songs, I have so much Christianese language. Like, when you're, When your first song is like, holy, holy, holy is the Lord of God Almighty. Yeah. I think he's going like, what does holy mean? Holy. Like what? Obviously, that's where we want to get to in a worship set. Yeah.

But like, give Bubba some language he can be like, I find myself in that song. I feel like that. And hopefully that's what some of my music can continue to do. That's how worship should be to introduce people because people don't know. You're right. Like one of the challenges that we found when we were like telling people about Jesus in the street. I call Christianese too, but like I could say something like repentance. And they're like, what does that even mean?

What does that mean? And it's like you've got to teach them. They have to understand, like, why would someone want to, Quomho repent? Well, it's because they don't even know who Jesus is and this man. And, like, this simplistic understanding, Jesus isn't doing mental gymnastics with Bryce. Yeah. So, like, this, like, simple, get my foot in the door. And I'm so stupid.

So I'm still, like, you know, I got to have it fed to me on a spoon, you know, kind of thing. But thank you for writing that song. I think this ties well with even our conversation for at the movies. Yeah, it's similar. You know, we see a lot of new guests. here at Lake Point in this season. And so there's a, I want to let you, let's show overall reactions.

No wait, do you want to show? So he got crushed for this. Oh, you're right. You're right. By the way, I usually like the Babylon B thing. By the way, I usually like the Babylon B. B.B. But toss that up there. Yeah. So they were like roasting, worship pastor makes praise songs more accessible

by removing all references to God and Jesus. Trying to make a joke about it. And he got roasted a little bit and I thought it was really stupid. He got roasted a little bit. So here, I'll tell you what I think, how I took that thing. So first of all, as a guy who, you know, it's like, you know, a lot of the things I say are public. And a lot of the times when I'm done, I'm like, oh, I could see if somebody looked at it from that angle, they would think of it the wrong way. And it's like, but I'm in it from this angle.

Now, I just, I want to point out, he literally said, I want to get him there. Like, I just want to point that out. He literally said later in the clip, I want to get him there. But the internet just went ahead to roasting him because, Holy, Holy, Holy is Lord of God Almighty, is literal biblical language. And we obviously don't want to move biblical language from pray songs. And that's not what he's saying. Like, go listen to some of his stuff.

Like, he uses explicitly biblical language in tons of his stuff. Makes 95% of music with like, holy, holy, holy, makes 5% of music with like not holy holy holy. We're like, crazy. What are you doing? Yeah. So, like, I just like, dude, I'm so over the Christian cancel culture thing where it's like, we just, everybody just walks around acting exactly like the world where we interpret somebody in the worst possible light, take the one thing that they might have said a smidge different,

if they had a little more time to think about it, isolate that one thing. And then like, that's the, like, like, there, there, I didn't see any, I haven't seen any, I, I couldn't be wrong. I haven't, could be wrong. I haven't seen any Babylon B, uh, little articles about how awesome it is that his biblically faithful songs have gone viral. and influence millions of people. They just take the one thing that it's like, he might have said that different if he had a second. And they omitted the fact that he literally got to,

hey, I want to get them there. So I just, I'm totally out on it. And here's why I'm out on the Christian council culture thing. In the Bible, who is it that is always interpreting Christians in the worst possible light and then accusing them based on interpreting them in the worst possible light? Well, that's Satan who is called the accuser of the brethren in the book of Revelation. So I'm like, hey man, let's, how about like a little more Jesus, a little less Satan?

Let's do it. Let's do that. So I got more things that I would say there, but that's why I first thought. My first thing with like just a little clips is like, okay, let's see the full thing to keep everything in full context. And because I think the little snippet, it does take things out of context. I don't know what he said previously. I just know, like, his songs are worshipful. They do talk about Jesus.

They too talk about, like, God being holy. So I would need to see the full thing of what he said. But, I mean, I have other thoughts, too. But I think that... Just like you say, from that short clip, I think they're just mixing two concepts together. Like, there can be evangelistic songs or, like, you know, songs that eventually live.

due to the faith, but they're like worship songs that you cannot take the language of Christianese language, whatever, because they're for Jesus, they're not to attract you to God or they're not to make you feel, you know, good. They're, you know, directed to God. So I think they're just mixing maybe the choice of words or that particular just, you know, portion of the clip. Because worship songs, I mean, of course they have to talk about God. They have to talk about, you know, redemption, his attributes or, you know, whatever.

but there are songs that could just attract people to God. So I think there's a difference. Just as, you know, with the movies, there's evangelisms. There's the things that you make the gospel relatable. But then there's discipleship. Would you teach them the Bible? They're two separate things. So I think in this particular clip, I think that's a confusion because they're mixing two things together.

But if you're putting a worship song without God in it. I know. Do you all know what song they were talking about? Because that's where they started. They weren't talking about a specific song. Just in general. They were just talking about, yeah. The use of like words like holy or words that an unbeliever, like Bubba, like he mentioned,

wouldn't necessarily understand what is the worship song is not for Bubba. Right. The worship song is for God. That's right. Yeah, but yes, that's exactly right. And that's really important, which is, by the way, that's why Brandon in the clip later says, I want to get him there. I want to give it.

But what he's saying is like, dude, you'll hear me in, you know, it's kind of thing I'll do in sermons. where I'm like, if you can learn the language to order at Starbucks, I can use theological language in church. And then I'll talk about words like propitiation, sanctification, glorification, you know, doxological. You have to learn a whole language to go to Starbucks. So like, why didn't you just... Exactly.

Exactly. But what I will do is you'll notice, like, I'll take those theological words that the Bible uses and then I'll explain them. I'll put the cookies in the bottom shelf. Propitiation. I get this from Jobb. Mark. Propitiation, that's payment that satisfies.

You know, things like that. that. Condemnation, that's a builder's term that means unfit for use. So like, well, and the reason I sympathize what he said is he's talking about Bubba. I usually, I call him a drink a beer and watch a game guy. I'm like a normal drink a beer and watch a game guy. And I will say like most pastors are not real good at communicating to just normal dudes that sit at home and they're not reading Jonathan Edwards, you know, in their free time. They're drinking a beer and watching a game. And I love his heart. that I want to disciple that guy in a way that he understands.

I love it. That's a missionary's perspective. How do I contextualize the gospel? And we're called to, there's a biblical mandate to contextualize the gospel to the person so that they can understand it wherever they are in their faith journey. So absolutely. And I'm not rusting him. Like what I'm saying is, no.

No, you know. The Hispanic camera brought it down. But my point is that I think there's two different kind of songs that he's talking about and he's putting them in the same category. Like you're talking about a music. or a song that will attract someone to Jesus, like that's more like an evangelistic song to me. But if you're talking about a worship song

that a Christian person that already understands the gospel is using to worship God, you cannot remove the holy words, you know, from that song. You know, so I think that's the only thing that he's mixing the two together. You cannot say it's a worship song if you're not talking about God. Yes.

Yeah, but see, I would say to, I agree with what you're saying. And, you know, but I do think, you know, when it comes to, when you look at scripture to, even like the Psalms, like not every Psalm is holy, holy, holy, like some of the Psalms are, man, I'm, I'm wrestling with depression. And it's a, it's a, it's a certain way. Like, it's also like when you, when you worship, it's, it's kind of like prayer. You're telling God, hey, here's where I am. And so I think, man, I think we need both. I think we need the holy, holy holies. And, you know, there's a way and there's a sense in which God uses the hard fought hallelujah to reach people. I've heard it said before, marry the mission, the methods. There's a different churches have probably the same mission to reach the loss, but they have different methods. I'll just maybe put a final word on it. Here's what I love.

I honestly heard that and I thought that man has a shepherd's heart. You have Psalm 23, what does a shepherd do? He leads me in paths of righteousness for his name's sake. So what a shepherd does is he has an understanding of where the sheep are, and his goal is to take him for, he leads me somewhere. His goal is to take the sheep from where they are to where I want to get them. I heard that, I was like, that man's got a shepherd's heart, and he specifically said, I want to get them there.

My watch out for Christians is that you do not start participating in, you know, I will, and I'm not calling the Babylon B, satanic. They were a little tongue-in-cheek joke. I'm talking about internet, Christian cancel culture, or vibe. It's good. Is that you do not participate in something that is overtly demonic and satanic. For instance, the Book of Galatians specifically commands Christians. Watch out that you do not bite and devour one another.

And whenever everybody just jumps straight to, I'm going to interpret you in the worst possible light. Oh, by the way, 1 Corinthians 13 says that what love does is love believes all things. In other words, what loving Christians do is they'll hear another Christian and they go, I'm going to choose to interpret them in the best possible light. And whenever you see somebody who intentionally will isolate one little phrase like that and then intentionally interpret the person in the worst possible light, they're doing the, it's like it's an anti-Christ move where Christ love believes all things. They're like, well, I'm going to disbelieve all things.

And then Christ unites, Satan does the, I'm going to bite and devour. I'm a lion to devourer. So that's my warning for Christians. We're not people who participate in the spirit of the accuser, Christian cancel culture thing. That's not a thing. Obviously, caveat, you had to do all the caveats because the internet, internets.

Yes, there are some people that should not be a ministry. No, I'm not talking about overlooking things like abuse, blah, blah, blah. But you know what I'm talking about. Like, hey, man, let's be people who are people of overt love and build up the body of Christ. Team Brandon Lake. That's really good, man. Team Brandon Lake. Shout out to Brandon. Hey, well, I mean, this is a good episode, guys. At the movies, week one.

At the movies week one. Pastor Josh, would you please pray for us? I would love to. Father, thank you for the men and women that are listening right now. Lord, would you please call all of us afresh back to a heart of overt humility before the living God? I pray that all of us spend our entire lives to our dying day. with a heart that says, I am a man or I am a woman who is poor and needy and his grace is sufficient for me because his power is made perfect and weakness. Father, fill the men and women

who are listening with your spirit in a fresh way. Move them to lay down their lives with everything we have to advance the kingdom, advance the gospel, and lift up the name of your son Jesus by serving the body of Christ

and I pray that you give them joy, grace, and fulfillment as they do it in Jesus' name. Amen. Thanks for tuning in to Live Free with Pastor Josh Howardton. We pray today's episode helped you take a step forward in life, culture, and faith as you live free in Christ. If it encouraged you, be sure to rate, review, and share the podcast, and don't forget to subscribe so you'll never miss an episode. Join us for Lake Point Church online every weekend and find more resources at Lake Pointe. dot church slash live free. We'll see you next time.