Live Free with Josh Howerton - Jesus Has Authority Over Demonic Influences | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Episode Date: March 24, 2025

What if your compromise isn’t as subtle as you think?   Pastors Josh Howerton, Carlos Erazo, and Paul Lewis have a powerful conversation inspired by the letter to the church in Pergamum, and things get real. From uncovering the historical and spiritual weight of Satan’s throne to the bizarre links between ancient temples, Roman emperors, and even Nazi Germany, this conversation exposes the enemy’s recycled tactics across history. They dive into how antichrists rise, how false teaching creeps in, and how spiritual authority is either claimed—or forfeited. It’s all about courage over compromise, spiritual clarity, and reclaiming the dominion God intended. Plus, they explore topics like IVF, spiritual warfare, and the nicknames only the Father can give.   This one will stretch your mind, stir your faith, and help you see the unseen battles all around.   👍 Like, Comment, & Subscribe for more life-changing podcasts! 🔔 Turn on notifications so you never miss an update!     👇 DON’T MISS OUT! Looking for real, honest relationships that enrich your life? Discover a Life Group near you and start building meaningful friendships today -- https://lakepointe.church/groups/     ⛪ ABOUT LAKEPOINTE CHURCH: We believe that Lakepointe is a movement for all people to Know God, Find Freedom, Discover their Calling, and Make a Difference. With 6 DFW locations and programs for all ages, there's something for everyone. 🤝 Support this ministry and help us reach more people with the Gospel: https://pushpay.com/g/lakepointe/    STAY CONNECTED: 🌐 Website: https://lakepointe.church/ 👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lpconnect/ 📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lpconnect  🎥 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lakepointechurch      🎧 LISTEN ON THE GO! ▶️ Live Free on Spotify / https://open.spotify.com/show/353ryGdZNlebaiqkCcy3Yc  ▶️ Live Free on Apple Podcasts / https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/live-free-with-josh-howerton/id1669321198 

Welcome to Live Free with Pastor Josh Howardton. Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know Jesus, live free, and make a difference with their lives. And our prayer is these deep dive conversations about the Word of God equip you to live free in Christ. This is a test drive, and we'll decide whether or not to do more seasons based on engagement. So if this is helpful to you, if you could rate, review, or share, that will help us to know what's helpful. For more digital content, visit lakepoint.church slash livefeworthy. free. And now, let's dive into today's episode. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Live Free podcast. My name is Carlos, and I'm here with Pastor Josh Howerton. And today, I'm blessed.

Today, it is a good, good episode because we have a special, special guest, Pastor Paul Lewis, Lead Pastor of Lake Point in Español. Thanks for the invitation. Oh, wow, let's go. Oh, Paul, I'm so sorry. I forgot to tell you. Wait, is this Paul's podcast debut? It is, man. What? Yes.

He's a pride. At least in English. In English, it's my first time. I'm a little embarrassed that Carlos, our podcast producer, has never got you on. Yeah, yeah. I know. Hey, Matt. It's his fault.

Better late than never. Yeah, there you go. Thank you for your grace. Yeah. How's it going? Doing good. Paul, thanks for joining us. Funny stories that me and you have done podcast before, but in Spanish.

That's right. And I wasn't invited on. Yeah, it's his fault again. He invited me. So it's not my podcast. I would have said, Gracius and Gloria Adios a lot. And a couple of good foods like tacos

or sweaty tacos, things like that. Oh, yeah. Sweaty tacos. Yeah, Paul, for people that don't know, you are a Mexican pastor. You're from Mexico. Yeah. You live in the West.

I look like a gringo, but I was born and raised in Mexico. That's right, man. Missionary's kid. That's right. And for pod listeners, who don't know this, I want to honor Paul.

So when Pastor Paul got here, I think Lake Pointe-Espaniel was like, it was basically a life group. There was like 40 people ish, right? Yeah, 48. 48. Yeah. I don't remember the number. That's a pastor. That's a pastor. No, not 40. 48. 48. That's a pastor. 48 people in a life group. He knows his sheep. That's right. He knows his sheep. Everyone counts. Now thousands of people across three campuses. Yes. Yeah. Rockwall, North Dallas, and our Mexico campus. Yeah. unbelievable. Paul, you were like, probably like the second person I connected.

Before coming to Lake Point, Paul invited me to just chat and hear my story. And honestly, like, I would not be here if it wasn't for Paul. Well, somebody told me that you wanted to help in youth group. And I'm like, yeah, let's meet with him. And I'll do whatever. And I remember taking you and Brooke for a little tour of the church and trying to convince you. And I even told you that to this funny. I said, I know y'all don't have kids, but imagine your kid one day being here at the children's ministry.

And I was selling Lake Point and the vision for you to come here. And so to see what God has done is great. I think you'll probably remember this. Janet and I attended a Lake Point in Espaniol service before we ever attended a Lake Point English service. Yeah. So we came. And for some reason, like our schedule that morning, the service, the way the service time started, I can't remember why it was. but we came and slipped in the back of the Lake Point of Spaniel service,

and the worship of the Lake Point in a Spaniel room, it just opened our heart. We left there going like, this is home. Yeah, yeah. Well, I remember that Sunday, and because all our ushers and everybody said, hey, we, you know, because it's not usual when an English-speaking person shows up. And so everybody kind of knew that you were here and you're visiting

and for us to kind of worship together. That was cool and to be part of that story too. Now we're good friends. That's amazing. Well, man, thank you for being here. Thank you. We're in the middle of a series that I'm really enjoying. Letters to the American church.

I'm really liking this. The seven letters to the churches in Revelation, and this week we got Pergamum. We sure did. Yes, we did. Let's talk about Revelation chapter 2, verse 13th 17. So we'll talk Pergamum. So we'll tease some things.

That's right. But before, actually, sorry, go ahead. Hey, thanks for watching, subscribing, liking, commenting, all the things. That's right. By the way, podcast, dude, this thing is growing. Like, our people are doing amazing. Man, people, honestly, like, we were receiving really good feedback overall. So thank you guys.

Honestly, this helps a lot. People don't know this. But when people actually share and like and comment and participate, this helps us with our algorithm. Like, we get to reach more people because you do that. So thank you, everybody. Yeah, absolutely. So to tease it, we'll talk.

Pergamum, antichrists. Let's go. We're going to go there. Let's go. Left behind. I'm excited, man. Nicolai Carpathia. Bro, I was thinking about that.

Nicolai. I was thinking about the Nicolacians. I was like, do you think about that? No, I didn't. I was like, Nikolai. That's it, man. Anyways, we'll go. All right, so we'll talk Pergamum.

We'll talk Antichrist. We're going to talk how to recognize false teachers. And then IVF. I'm a little nervous, but I'm getting so many questions. about it that I want to talk about it. So we'll finish, I do want to talk about IVF. Okay. And we'll answer that emotionally complex question.

All right. Well, I'm ready. So let's start with gold nuggets. What did I make it to the sermon? Wait, can we start with a video? The program, um? Okay, so for anybody, if you were here, if you already saw the message, this is an awesome recap.

But so during this series, obviously, we were able to travel to the seven churches in Turkey. and film on location, like 90 second snapshots. They give a background. This will really help some of the stuff that we're going to cover here that I didn't get into the sermon. This video will help lay the foundation. So, train cue it.

She's our live free, Jamie. She's ready. Well, I'm standing here right now at the top of what's called the Acropolis, which means upper city in the city of Pergamum, which is obviously one of the churches that Jesus addresses in Revelation chapter 2 and 3. Herggemon was an extremely important city dominated by two things, political power and especially idle worship, an absolute infestation of temples to the pagan, Greek, and Roman gods and goddesses.

This was the city that these precious Christians lived in. Right over my shoulder, you'll see right here are the remains of the temple of Athena. If you look very closely, there is a solitary olive tree. That is the exact spot. where the cult statue to Athena stood and where the people in the city were called and demanded to come and worship. To the right of the shelf where Athena's temple was, this was the temple of Zeus.

Zeus was considered the god of gods or in language that may sound familiar, the King of Kings. If you look over here to my left, what you'll see is right down here past this little theater, temple to Dionysus. And then if you look very far down,

right now where all of these, homes are the residential area this is where there was a large hospital called the Asclepion which was dedicated to the goddess Asclepius who is the goddess of healing now there's more here where I'm specifically standing right now you'll notice in the passage it references Jesus says to this precious church I know where you dwell where Satan's throne is he said this probably for two reasons one because the city was dominated by false satanic demonic demonic idol worship. But two, because where I'm standing right now was the temple to Trajan,

who is a Roman emperor who is worshipped as a God and demanded that people worship him upon threat of death. This was what Jesus was referencing when he says, you dwell where Satan's throne is. Now, in the middle of all of this pressure for this church to compromise into this idol worship and political power worship, there was one man that's referenced in this passage. Antipus was their courageous pastor. And instead of doing compromise, Antipus did courage and he lost his life for it. In the midst of all of this pressure for this church to compromise, Jesus cheers this young, thriving church on and calls them to courage and not compromise. They did a really good job. Man, that's amazing. Man, let me just say, you're really good to explain.

things. That was a really good video. That was a really good video. Dude, it was so funny because some of those sites you're like not supposed to film on. And it's, so it's like, all obscure names, but it's like, somebody else who was with me would like distract our tour guide and be like, hey man, can you show me this stuff over here?

And then we would, I would like, because we shot him on iPhones. So then we would shoot him in like two minutes and then shut her down. Was that the first time you were there? Yeah. Wow. Is it like, when you were there? you're there, you're like, oh my goodness, so the places in the Bible are real. I mean, is it like, that's what I do. You've been to Israel, right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's kind of the same

thing where it's like the Bible goes from black and white to color. So when you go to Israel, the gospels do that. When you go there, Axe does that. So as you start, now, none of Acts is in Pergamum. Yeah. But like, we went to Ephesus and we went to Corinth. And we'll get to those later in the series. But it's, um, those were like, oh, dude, like, I agree. I really, I remember the verse where they talked about standing in front of this thing, and now I'm standing in front of this thing. You know, there's a lot of that kind of stuff. Well, thank you for doing the video because you kind of take us with you there. It's awesome, man. You want to do some nuggets that weren't in there? Because there's some crazy stuff that I didn't have time to get to.

Okay, so a couple things. First of all, so the big, that city got so Pergamum got like really big, largely on the medical industry because, you know, I mentioned it in there. They called it the Esclepion down at the foot of the hill. I'm pretty sure it was the largest medical facility in Rome. And it was like, bro, they had, I didn't have time to go into this in the sermon. But they had like, they were doing dream therapy like 2,000 years before Freud. They had, they had sleep chambers, underground sleep chambers for people with sleeping problems. They had, they had some really creepy stuff where they would take non-poisonous snakes and lock people in these dark rooms. And they had some suspicions around. what would happen there. Dude, it was nuts. It was nuts. What we were trying to cure with that?

I don't know. Dude, I don't know. I hate snakes. Oh, dude, I'm totally... Okay, so let's talk about snakes. All right, so this is a fun little fact. So, Trinity, I'm getting ready to call for that Asclepius, the statue. All right, so that statue, that's the Greek.

I'm pretty sure Greek. Is it a Greek or Roman? God Asclepius. And you see the snake there. So that's from Pergamum. They recovered that statue from... Pergamum right there. And you can obviously see the snake around his little walking staff. Okay, so check this out. So that's at the medical facility. Yes. So go ahead and toss that.

All right. So that's where we get the American medical symbol is from the Esclepion in Pergamum. A little biblically interesting to Christians that it's the snakes, you know, a little, you know, the little biblically interesting. I think that's interesting. So that's number one. I think that's super interesting. Man, isn't there? Because obviously the serpent in scripture is portrayed, obviously, Genesis, the deceiver, one, two, Genesis, two and three, Genesis three, but then, you know, Revelation, the dragon. But then there's one time where, like, Moses gets a snake in the desert, you know what I'm talking about?

And so it's, you know, there's a little bit of like, yeah, and so it's just a very interesting use of imagery throughout scripture. And that one was used for healing. That's right. That's right. Yeah, so that is. Maybe Pergamams stole it from Moses. I don't know, man.

Come on, who knows. I thought that was interesting. Okay, here's another one. So we touched on this in the sermon. So he talks about where Satan's throne is. And I actually want to get into that in a second because that touches on Dominion theology. So that like is a little thread that goes all throughout the scriptures.

We'll get to that theology in a second. But so we touched on the sermon on the big, the emperor cult, the Roman emperor cult. The statue there was to Trajan. They already saw that. So Carlos has a new fact about the Demetian coin that he won't share with me until the podcast is actually rolling. So, okay, I just want to, I don't want to recover this before I talk about why Jesus says Satan's throne dwells there. The whole Antichrist theology that's being tied in to Revelation 2.

And then, dude, there's a crazy fact about Hitler that ties to Pergamum. I'm going to share here in a second. So for those who missed it, this is nuts. This is like Indiana Jones level stuff. that's like, I can't believe that's true, and I checked it out, and it's true. Okay, so Jesus says, I know you dwell where Satan's throne is, et cetera, et cetera. What he's talking about is the emperor Trajan is the one who originally built the huge statue that they, and they had to worship him as God. Caesar is Lord, was their little statement. But by the time John writes Revelation,

obviously, Demetian is the Roman emperor. Demetian was a complete, like, Demetian was a textbook definition of a 1 John chapter 2 antichrist like textbook definition he assumes a throne he gains power over the whole world he demands to be worshipped as god while he's alive he wages war against the people of god the most intense persecution of Christians of any roman emperor the dude was a totally sexually deviant perverse murderer like all the stuff like but then i just want to point this out all right so go ahead and toss that so this is the coin and I mentioned this real quick in the sermon. That's the coin that Demetian mints during his reign. So for people who either missed it or can't remember, dude, this is nuts. So,

theologically, we know Jesus is the son of God. He has his throne, he reigns over the whole world. The Bible says he's made the nations his footstool. And then Revelation 1 and 2 says he holds the seven stars in his hands. So bro, what does an Antichrist do? They're against and they try to replace the Christ. So bro, look at this coin. Demetian mints this coin. That's an image of Demetian's son. So think about this.

Demetian says, I'm God. He mince a coin with the quote unquote son of God, who is sitting atop the globe on a throne and count those stars. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven. he's he it's Jesus he's trying to it's that's that's that's Jesus thing yeah and he's satanically he's he's impound Jesus is a satanic counterfeit Jesus is filled with the Holy Spirit the Antichrist is filled with the the unholy spirit Satan and he's trying to replace Jesus now bro I'm because you wouldn't tell me before we started recording what's your tidbit so you said it you said everything

except for one thing that I think just asked a little just a little bit more color come on It's interesting because if you remember the context, here's John, he's writing this letter, Jesus is speaking through John, and John has suffered the consequences of being under the reign of Domitian. And what I did not hear you mention is Domitian, obviously he had a son. His son actually died when he was an infant. So he has a son who died, and then here's Domitian, he says, I am God, and he has a son who dies, and he makes it on a coin who's on top of the world and the seven stars.

But then here's John writing this letter. And Jesus shows up and he says, hey, tell them who's writing. The one who actually holds the seven stars in his hand. And so this is Jesus telling John, man, you know, persecution does not have the last word. The emperor does not have all the authority. The one who's in front of you has all the authority. I have the last word.

And yeah. And so it's amazing. So yes, so everything you said, plus, man, that's an antichrist right there. that's it yeah yeah yeah so then you get so this is why i kind of didn't have time to go into um and this is just this is quick so uh like marks of antichrist so for people who don't know this um i think most people that are um they haven't read the new testament they're like oh i've heard about the antichrist christ christians think there's gonna be an antichrist at the end of the world and da da da da da da i don't get to that more in a second but actually first john it's either two or three

I think three actually. It says many antichrist have come. So what he's pointing out is that the pattern throughout human history will be satanically empowered world leaders that are against and try to replace Jesus. So what most people do is they'll look at people like Nero, Muhammad, some people go Saddam Hussein. There's some really interesting stuff that we've actually talked about this

on the podcast before about Saddam Hussein, Hitler, and they'll go, okay, interesting. Those guys seemed satanically empowered to do very uniquely powerful things, and they always all tried to do the same stuff. They tried to get a world throne, they tried to replace God, and they tried to kill the people of God, all of them.

I was like, that's what Antichrist is. You guys want the Hitler-Indiana Jones thing? Let's go. Dude, I wanted to get this into the sermon. This is nuts. So, like, I confirmed to make sure this is true. So also at Pergamum, again, where Satan's throne is, you had a temple to Zeus,

who's the God of God's, Lord of Lords, according to demonic false gods thing. So, dude, so Germany goes to Pergamum where Jesus said Satan's throne is in the 1930s. They take, I'm making sure I get this right, they take the altar to Zeus that's there that some people think is what Jesus was going, Satan's throne.

they took it back to, it's still there to, the museum is still there today in Berlin, I think, the Pergamum Museum. They take it back there. Hitler had his chief architect. So think about this, Hitler, who is an Antichrist, he has his chief architect fashioned the pulpit that he's preaching from during Nuremberg,

fashioned it off of the quote unquote throne of Satan that Jesus called, from Revelation 2, from Pergamum, this thing. So then you start going like, bro, there's, you can deny all you want, like the reality of supernatural, like Satan, demons, demonic activity.

That stuff is stinking real. That's insane. That's insane. It's the same spirits. It's the same demons. I mean, you know, we were just talking to a family the other day. I don't want to get it off topic,

but this family was demonic possessed. Is this a story? story you were telling me about the about the legitimate exorcism. Yes, and right after church. And so we've had, I think three of three legitimate like for real, I don't know what else to call it, exorcism. Yeah, freedom of, you know, of demon possessions. And simply because we're preaching the whole gospel. And, you know, when you preach the whole gospel and freedom and Jesus Christ and we go there, you know, it's a spiritual warfare. And so this, this person, this family, this lady, she, I mean, physically, she couldn't control herself, she couldn't speak.

And so what happened when she finally started speaking, when we were praying for her, we said, you know, who are you? Who is this spirit? And so this spirit says the name. And when they say the name, the mom of this lady starts crying. And she goes, I know who this is. And she goes back. And they were from another country, okay?

and so this happened here in Texas. But this lady says, yeah, my sister, she was into witchcraft, and she had a spirit and named the spirit that would give her wisdom and give her visions. And then she already passed away. Wow. She already passed away. And that same spirit continues. Now it was inside of her.

But in the name of Jesus Christ, she was free. She got baptized last week. Wow. Wow. That's amazing, man. amazing things. But anyway, my point was that it's the same spirit. I mean, you know, history will repeat itself because it's the same demons, same spirit, same enemy. What are the same things keep. That's, yeah, that's it. That's good. You got it. You got it.

Why do the same things keep happening? The same spirits are still working. Pastor Martin. Wow. Well, praise God for her life. Wait, her freedom. I'll give one more. Here's one more little nugget that I didn't get to in the sermon. So it's, he talks about in the passage to the one who, to the one who conquers, I'll give a white stone and a new name. only to the one who gives it, or the one who receives it. And I talked about, Bible scholars really split on, okay, what's the deal with the white stone? Nobody, everybody's like, we don't know. It's like the Bible, the two theories, the one that I put in the sermon is the most common one,

that Roman juries would give a, when they were done with a trial, if they were found somebody guilty, they'd give a black stone, if they found somebody acquitted. then they give him white stone, which is really cool, obviously. The other theory is, they call them Tessera, is that those white stones, Roman elites would give, and this, from what I understand,

this is a thing, they would give these little marble white stones, and they would inscribe the name of the person they were inviting to, like, at a very high society party to. So some Bible scholars think, when Jesus says, I'm going to give you a white stone with a name,

essentially he's going, I'm going to invite you to the party of all parties, the wedding supper of the lamb, and you're in. Which is, that's pretty cool, too. So there's some other stuff we got to. I do want to, in a second, get to the Dominion theology on Satan's throne stuff, but that was the key stuff. I got one more. Let me put on my pastor hat. And let me try to apply the text to the context of the world.

And it's interesting because, you know, here you have Jesus giving, telling people, hey, to those that overcome, I'm going to give them a, a white stone with their name. I'm going to give you a new name that only you and I know. And so there's a sense of intimacy where Jesus is saying, man, there's a name that I'll give you and I'm inviting you to be intimate with you and your identity will be based on that intimacy. Later in the book of Revelation, the enemy, the Antichrist, actually gives something to people and it's not a name.

It's a number, right? So people will know this. So it's interesting if you think about it. Here's Jesus is saying, I'm going to give you a name and your identity will be based on the name that I will give you, that's intimacy with God. Your identity is based on your intimacy with God, who God says you are. But then later the enemy, the Antichrist, gives you a number.

And if you think about our current culture today, where people are finding numbers as their identity, how many followers you got, what your net worth is. And this is the same spirit. This is a new age, but the same spirit working where people are finding their identity in a number, not in a name or not in an identity that Jesus gives you. And so there's a little bit of an interesting parallel

there where like, you know, are you finding your identity in numbers? Are you, or are you receiving your identity from Christ because he says, man, you and I have an intimacy that nobody can take away from you. But, you know, also, I think, you know, Satan, you know, tries to put labels on you and names you. And, you know, the Bible says that the power of the tongue. And so many people, maybe a father or a mother said, you know, you're ugly or you're not worth anything. And they grab that name and Satan wants to like stamp that name on them and carry it for the rest of their lives. But so often in the word, this says, but I'm changing your name. You're not anxious. You have peace. That's it. Right. Now you have hope. Now I give you a name, the name of Jesus,

which is above every name. And I think how we apply it today, I mean, each one of us can remember those hurtful words that we carry. And we sometimes we can see ourselves. in the mirror and we see ourselves when we hate the person that we see and we even we even curse ourselves we say well I'm this stupid or or I can't do this and what I love how this finish is hey no I'm giving you a new name and I love you kind of mentioned that that it's like a secret name and you ever this like joking about you know it kind of defines the relationship you know when when your kids say you know that you're dad you know that means a relationship and so there's names that only I will say to Priscilla, right?

And I want to say one, which is not, you know, that's not that bad. But so, so. But, yeah. This is a PG-13 podcast. I forgot to mention it. No, no, no. So I tell Priscilla, Priscilla, my chiquita. Chiquita, not?

But I don't. Are you going to explain that? I don't know what that means. What would that be? I mean, my little one. My little one. But, okay. But in Spanish, like, you know, it's romantic.

It doesn't sound romantic in English. My little one. My little one? No, no. I need to get another name in English. But anyway. So, but my point is that no one else should say that. If someone else says that, they're going to be in trouble.

But that's very intimate. And so I just think that God is a personal God. God is a loving God that's saying, hey, I'm giving you a special name that's between me and you. I think that's like gold. That really struck me this week, too, Paul. because I, you know, it's like with a sermon, you know this especially. It's like, you got two illustrations and you're always going, which one should I use? And I almost, for that illustration used, because I'm the same with each of my kids, I've got a nickname.

Like, you know, with Hudson, they say, I call him, I never call him Hudson. Hey, I call him HUDBud. Hey, Hudbud. Hey, my little buddy. And it's the same thing. If I saw like some random guy in the lobby, Colin Hudson, HUD Budd or my little buddy, I'd be like, hey, bud, like, why don't you back up? You know, that's not, that level of intimacy is not for you.

Felicity gave me permission to share this, that, I call Felicity Giggle Snout. She's got a, she's got, she's all got a stuffy nose because of her little thing, and she likes to be called, she thinks it's hilarious. But it's that same thing, that just the intimacy of the father, that someday there'll be some name that every son and daughter gets. this like, that's only what my dad calls me. It reflects the relationship. I think that for God to say that and finish those verses saying that is so precious. Yeah. That's good, man.

That's awesome. That's all we got. That's pretty good. Stop. No, no, no. That's pretty good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Man, we have a lot to cover and like half an hour went by already.

Are you kidding? I'm not kidding. That's okay. I mean, you know, we got some other things. But hey, let's go in a little deeper. Make sure I got to do the Satan's throne and the dude. dominion thing. Okay. So at some point we got to get it. Okay. You know what? Let's talk about the Satan's starting the dominion. And let's go there. Yeah, you want to do it? Let's go there.

All right. So I guess this counts under things that didn't make it in, but I think this is important. So, so when he said, you know, it's like a lot of times, you'll see something in scripture that's like a thread. And it's like it ties into a theology that runs its way through the whole Bible. So like you see the word covenant. We've talked about that on here before. Well, that's a theology that runs through the entire Bible or redemption or penal substitution or, you know, those things. The Satan's throne when he says that, that's the same thing. That ties into a theology that runs the whole Bible. And I don't, I don't have time to do the whole explanation of it. But a lot of people miss that you can really explain the Bible

in terms of dominion and thrones. And it's an overarching theme, like a spine through the whole. So for instance, the dominion gets lost and gained and transferred throughout the Bible, and it's very clear. So for instance, when he says Satan's throne,

so we're talking about dominion. So biblically, theologically, when everything is created, Obviously, it is created under the dominion of God. In the beginning, God created dominion. Then, notice, God puts Adam and Eve in the garden to, quote, work it and keep it. Their theologians call them the vice regents of God.

So then he gives them dominion. You name the animals. So in fact, in other words, he confers dominion to Adam and Eve. Then, this is what a lot of people miss, is that part of the effects of the fall, are when they sin, they lose dominion to the serpent, and their dominion over creation is transferred to Satan in some way. And a lot of people miss this. That's why, so this has explanatory power for things that the New Testament

and the Old Testament say. That's why you get to the New Testament, and it says things like, the whole world lies under the power of the evil one. It calls Satan the God of this world. Here's one a lot of people miss. Matthew 4, when Satan tempts Jesus, Satan says to Jesus in the third temptation,

he shows them all the kingdoms. And if you're noticed, he says to Jesus, all the kingdoms of this world have been given to me, and Jesus does not correct him. So in other words, Jesus didn't go, no, they're not. Jesus, like, he essentially, he tacitly acknowledges, yep, actually you do have dominion right now.

so then this is where it kind of gets cool so then part of what Jesus is doing at the cross and you see this played out in Revelation 5 we're not getting to Revelation 5 in this series but I wish we were you see this played out in Revelation 5 like this is stinking cool right here this is really cool so if podcasters want some homework go home and read Jeremiah 32 about the thing on Hananiah and the scrolls So I'll try to do this really fast because this is really cool.

So in ancient Israel, when dominion of a property was being transferred in the real estate market, they would give two scrolls that were two deeds. There was a sealed deed, and you can read by this, Jeremiah 32, a sealed deed and an open deed. The sealed deed always stayed with the original owner. So if I sold a property to Carlos and Carlos dies, I've still got the sealed deed. And if he doesn't have a living relative ownership transfers back to me because I have the sealed deed. The open deed was something that he would go with.

And it would be, and that would give, let me make sure I get this right, the open deed would go with the person that it was given to. And so what would happen is at any time the family that originally owned, this is really important. This is where we get the phrase kinsman redeemer, by the way. At any time, the original owning family of the property, if they wanted to redeem the property back, they could crack open the seal of the sealed deed that was always a double-sided scroll.

That's very interesting. They could crack open that scroll, the seals on the scroll, open it. And then a kinsman, a relative of the original owning family, could pay an agreed-upon price to redeem the property back into the family. So you can see where this is going. This is stinking cool, man. So then you get to Revelation 5. The whole world lies under the power of the evil one.

We've lost dominion to Satan. It says, a scroll that was sealed. That's the sealed deed. Dominion of all creation. And then all of heaven cries out, who is worthy to take the scroll and break the seal? And they're gone, we need a kinsman redeemer. Jesus steps forward and he's like, I'll do it.

breaks open the scroll and then remember what they cried out to him in Revelation 5. You have, this was, you have redeemed us back to God. So when Jesus is going to the cross, part of dominion theology, part of what Jesus is doing

is he's going, I'm the kinsman redeemer. My family, my father, still has the sealed deed to the dominion of all creation. I'm going to pay the kinsman redeemer price. I'm going to get this thing back. Revelation 5 is showing what was going on behind the scenes in the spiritual realm.

That's what it's doing. Jesus is taking dominion back and then it actually gets a level cooler. The Bible says that Christians will reign with him. It says that we'll be kings and queens of the future kingdom, will reign with the angels. That's a restoration of Genesis 2. So we're the new vice regents. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

We're the new vice regions. So it ends with Jesus redeeming it back. And that's part of why he tells Peter, I'm going to give you the keys of the kingdom, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven, is he's acknowledging, I'm going to share dominion with you now

and give it back to the redeemed sons and daughters. Isn't that cool? That's amazing. Wow. That's pretty cool. I mean, talking about connecting Genesis to Revelation, the whole arc of the Bible, man. That's amazing. So that's why Satan's throne.

You're pulling on that dominion thing. theology thread in Revelation 2. When you were talking about that, something that this hit me hard is that, you know, when we practice sin, when we disobey, it's like we're giving some of that dominion back to Satan. And some families maybe in their own households, they don't understand why the oppression, why the curse from generation to generation is kind of because we're actually, there's a power there, there's a dominion.

And when we disobey God, it. And when we sin, like for instance, when God clearly has told us forgive this person and we cannot forgive that person, well, that's like a cancer. This is this takes over. It's like something oppresses us and there's a dominion. And I think, you know, that dominion is not going to go away until we release it until we forgive until we go to the blood of Jesus Christ. That's right. And I think a lot of people that are listening to us right now, they're under the dominion. of these spirits or these demons because they have permitted that in their heart or in their house.

I mean, what is your thoughts on that? I mean, I agree. I mean, I don't know. Yeah, man, let me ask you this just following up from what you said. If somebody's asking right now, man, how do I know if in my case I have allowed the enemy to have dominion over myself, my family? How do I know? What do I do? I would say like total surrender.

I think some of us, the temptation is only to give, you know, part of our lives to the Lord, not submit, you know, like in practical ways. We'll be sitting on Sunday and listen to a sermon and we're like, oh, yeah, that's good, that's good. And then like, yeah, I don't know about that. And you start justifying. And usually the Holy Spirit or the Word of God will show you, you know, what is God's commands and what is sin. And I think deep down we know, but we still want to release it. We don't want the total surrender. And I would say that God is a God of authority.

And what has your pastor told you to do? What has your authority told you to do? What has your life group leader told you? And you go, well, I'm not in a life group. Well, start there. You should be under authority because you're in a group for people to point out those blind spots in those areas that you're not surrendering. And then it's this easy.

it's total surrender. It's literally, you know, you personally and your family saying, man, me and my house will serve the Lord. And we submit and we serve the Lord and we start. I mean, all this critical is the reading of the word. It's a light into our life. And so some of us are not, we can't, we don't know what to submit to because we're not reading the word of God. And so where some of us are maybe exposed only once a week when we come to church. But, you know, that should not be our spiritual discipline. It should be our personal time with the Lord, opening the word, and having the prayer and the faith saying this simply,

Holy Spirit, and see, this is what's great. God will show up when you look for Him. And so they say, Holy Spirit, I'm opening the Word right here in John. Please speak to me and God will speak to you. That's right. That's right. That's good, man. Well, Jesus went to the cross.

He said, it is finished. That term, it is finished. It is the Greek to Telestai, which means that victory has been accomplished and a debt has been paid. Jesus is worthy of opening the scroll. He has redeemed this. Amen. That's good, man.

I have a question on what you were saying as well. Man, this idea of dominion, how does that play out and does it play out in government today? If somebody's looking at our cultural landscape right now and how do you, you know, we're talking about the influence of the Antichrist in our culture today. Is there any connection with governments? Well, you do see, so I'll say a few things right here. Unfortunately, so let me, I want to pull something up so I can speak intelligently here real quick.

There it is. So there's a few things I'd say. One is there's always going to be a battle for thrones. Because that's, Satan wants thrones. He wants to get. So I do think that you see that play out in the scriptures and you can watch it happen in life, a battle for thrones. And there's something spiritual behind the physical and the natural that's happening there.

That's absolutely true. So I think that that's number one. Number two, this is very interesting, man. A mega theme of the scriptures is God, versus government. You honestly, you just can't. You can't. Now, are there such a thing as godly political leaders and godly governments that move in Godward directions? Absolutely, praise God for them. That's like, you know, when Daniel wields his influence, when Esther does her thing, that's like, those are moments where it's like, hey, we got some wins on the field.

But a mega theme of scriptures, all the way back to, my gosh, man, all the way back to, Pharaoh versus Moses. Very political. You trace it all the way through. Even Revelation. I mean, here's, you know, Domitian versus Jesus, basically. Well, and then go a step farther.

Later in Revelation, I'll talk about this in a second, is the final Antichrist. It at least seems like what he does is set up a massive one-world government. So, I mean, all the way from Genesis to Revelation, there's a pretty heavy mega-theme of God versus government. So, yeah, Satan does.

he seeks to get in there, establish thrones, and then do reverse dominion via the thrones. I will say this is interesting. So while we're talking about governments and thrones, you hear a lot of talk right now about globalism and nationalism. And you'll even hear, you know, can I hear that phrase,

people will toss that around. It's huge in the last election cycle of Christian nationalism. Ah, Christian nationalism. And nationalism is bad. Well, when people say that, and I have a, this ties into war talking about, when people say that they're not talking about, people say nationalism's idolatry is kind of the, you'll hear that on CNN or whatever. When most Christians are saying that, they're not talking about order of allegiances. Oh, nationalism, I love my country more than Jesus. That's not what Christians are saying. They're talking about span of governments, and this does tie into this theological theme. So basically, with span of governments, you have three choices. you have tribalism, globalism, or nationalism. Those are three choices. In tribalism, there's no established nation. It's just a bunch of little chaotic anarchist tribes warring against each other. Nationalism is set national boundaries, obviously. Globalism is just essentially one world government. You're talking about a span of governments. In the Bible, what you've got, this gets hotly contested, but it's just a thing. In the Bible, God does globalism and Satan does nationalism. Oh, sorry.

let me do it. It's the other way. In the Bible, Satan does globalism and God does nationalism. So in the Bible, what you see is God is the one that establishes nations in the very beginning of Genesis, post-tower of Babel. You get into the New Testament and you've got some very clear things that he's the one, you get statements like he's the one that establish times and boundaries, et cetera, et cetera. So God does nationalism. I'll talk about why here in a second. The only person who does globalism, one-world government stuff, that's Satan. You have it two times in the Bible. There's only two times. Tower of Bible, I think Genesis 12, where all the nations unite in rebellion against God, and he scatters the languages and establishes nations. And then at the end of Revelation,

it appears as if the final Antichrist will do the same thing. Globalism, one world government, there's a reason for this. The theological reason behind it is because mankind is wicked and sinful. That's basic theology. So what national boundaries do, is it establishes natural checks and balances against mankind, uniting against God in evil and rebellion altogether. So it just sort of naturally sets up this

competing interests, natural checks and balances. Everybody can't unite in rebellion. It's like we hold each other accountable in the sense of, you know, obviously as Christians would believe that, you know, we have a depraved heart, basically a fallen heart, And so if you have one person at the top who's in power, one government, one world, you know, order, we would say that that's not a good idea.

It's not a good idea because, like you said, because we are depraved and sinful by nature, when we unite, what we will unite in is in wickedness and rebellion against God. Tower of Babel and the Antichrist of the end. That's right. So that's a fun little, fun little fact that's tied in. God does nationalism, Satan does globalism. It's interesting. So when you look at like the world today, I mean, things like, you know, if somebody were to ask, man, like the European nation or countries coming together to become one, if somebody were to ask, man, does that mean that that's not necessarily good? Sometimes maybe. Honestly, I got no comment.

Once you start getting like really granular into that, I just know what the pattern of the Bible is that nations establish natural checks and balances and Satan is the one that goes for a one world government. Yeah. Anything in between that, I'm going to go. Let me leave that to somebody else. Well, one of the themes from this verse in particular, and this church in particular, is this idea of compromise versus courage and conviction. Seems like this church in Pregum, they were, they're commended for being faithful in some areas, but then there's a little bit of some of the doctrines where they did compromise. Obviously, Romans chapter 12 says, do not conform to the pattern of this world. It seems like we kind of live. in a culture that is already compromised, and the culture pressures the church to conform to the world. What would you guys say are some ways where, like, the church or we as Christians are tempted to compromise?

What are some of those, like, practical, this is how it plays out in our time. We, in our culture, in our time, are, we are more likely to compromise in this, this, or that area. Well, I think the perfect example, it says there, someone that compromise. I want to say it in Spanish because I don't know how to say it in English. I got you. It's Balam? Balam.

Balim. So the prophet for prophet. He was this greedy and everything. I mean, he's like an enigma. He's like, you know, he appears like, so this prophet literally says about three or four different prophecies that are beautiful. And one of them is like talking about the Messiah and all this thing. but at the same time he had a greedy heart.

At the same time, there's something in his character that this bad king says, hey, let's go with him and let's see if we can bribe him. Why would they even consider that? You know, they knew something, right? But then it's so interesting, and I think we can learn from it, is that they go over there and they say, hey, Balam, please, you know, curse the Israelites, right? And he says, well, stay here, and I'm going to pray to God and see if God wants me to do it.

So he goes and prays all night and comes back and says, God said not to do it. Okay? That should be the end of the story. But these guys go back and they go, man, I think if we insist, tell him that we'll give you more power, give him more money, and they come back. Again, there was something in his character that they knew of,

hey, let's push him. So they come back and what does Balaam say? And instead of saying, you know what? It's a no. He goes, well, stay here again. in and let me check again, right? And he goes with God and God tells him again. And to the point, you know, this is a long story, but to the point that he goes to the other king when God didn't want him to go and he gets on his little mule. And that's the story where he's going. And the angel of the

Lord comes and appears. Okay. And so he doesn't see it. The donkey does. The donkey goes somewhere else and he gets mad and hits the donkey, right? And so the angel of the Lord goes over there. To the other side, The donkey stops, even rose over on him, and he's cursing and hitting and all this. One thing that I learned from that is that how can a donkey have more spiritual discernment than a prophet of God, right? That's a life lesson right there. So there was something that he could not see. And it was because he was focused on the greed. He was focused on what he was going to get.

And so my point is this. Some of us, because we don't walk in the Holy Spirit, we don't walk with the, relationship, intimacy, relationship with the word in the Holy Spirit, we don't have discernment. We're walking into things that we shouldn't even be walking and our kids are going through problems that we should have the discernment to know immediately. If we were sensitive to the Holy Spirit, we would know something was wrong, but we're clueless because we're not walking in that relationship. But the other thing I was thinking, at least in my, how many times, was God very clear, and now get the second or third best of God instead of the first.

Yeah. God was clear, and then we continue. And the last thing I will say, how does that look? It looks like a man that has a good job, but his kids are plugged in to our youth ministry. He has a great life group. He's plugged in and the church, his wife is serving alongside of it. everything's found. And then all of a sudden, he gets a job offer. Hey, there's more money. Hey, but you're going to have to move. You don't have to start. And he's like, he goes in praise.

He goes in a big indicator. He goes to the pastor, goes to the life group leader. And he doesn't say, hey, would you be praying with me? Man, I had this. I haven't made a decision. I want discernment and all that. Usually what happens is this man goes and says, hey, pray for us because we're moving. So, I mean, you already made the decision. And so what happens? This man takes this whole family somewhere else. The kids are not plugged in the youth ministry. All of a sudden, two years later, the kids, you know, feel depressed.

The kids don't have community. They call back in a man, we haven't found a church. We haven't found a life group, nothing. And it was because God was clear from the beginning. But you insist, you insist, you insist, you insist. And really, you're just trying to get your own way. So I'm just thinking how many times Has God been super clear with us

In a sermon and the word And we just go back and we're praying It sounds very spiritual Sounds very balaam You know man I'm the prophet of God But from the beginning God was clear Does it make sense? It does

So you're asking Yes And this ties into what you're saying here So you're asking what are the areas Where it's like we're going to be with So it's interesting Obviously for them He says

He says teaching of Beelam and the Nicolaeans that have caused you to practice sexual immorality and eat food sacrifice idols. So if you want to go, where are we going to be most tempted? I think it's I think it's First John again. He says, hey man, three things. Satan does three things. Lest the flesh, less the eyes, pride of life. Say it one more time so that people are processing. Honestly, those three are important. Yeah, I'm going to give a little color to it. So he says three things. He's like a figure. remember it's only got three lures. That's it. He's literally only got three. And what he does,

lust of flesh, lust of eyes, pride of life. And what he's going to do, Paul likes to fish too. He's going to do exactly what me and Paul do when we're fishing is I'm going to throw three different lures. And once I find the one that works, I'm going to hit that thing all day. If it's the, if it's the Texas rig little lizard soft bait that we throw back in that pond, you know, Or baby brush hog. The baby brush hog, watermelon of color. Yeah, there we go. If they're hitting it, I'm going to throw the exact same lure over and over and over and over as long as they're going to hit it.

Satan is the exact same way, and it goes back to the areas that we're going to be attempted to compromise in. So lust of the flesh, that's the desire to feel. Lust of the eyes, that's the desire to have. I can see it. I want it. the pride of life that's the desire to be it's going to be one of those three things always because that's what's bound up in the heart of man that's what literally happens in the genesis story with eve lust of the flesh it's like she sees the fruit lust of the eyes obviously just looking at it

pride of life she's i heard somebody said it you will be like god you would be like god yes and so lust of the flesh it feels good lust of the eyes it looks good pride of life it makes me feel become good or, you know, become somebody. It's interesting, yeah. So, yeah, so, I mean, if you're going, where are we going to be most tempted to compromise? It's, I mean, you can, I mean, seriously, just think about this.

Look out at our culture. Lust of the flesh, this is not hard. Like, sexual revolution. Basically, the sexual revolution from the 1970s on is just lust of the flesh turned into an ideology. It's all it is. You know, lust of the eyes, desire to have, you know, why in the world,

you see it everywhere. It's just mammon. It's unchecked greed and pride of life desire to be. I mean, why is everybody clout chase? Why is everybody got to, you know, they don't want to be faithful. They want to be famous. I will say this is why there's a little Martin Luther quote, and then I'm going to turn it over to you, Paul.

You get something. What we try to do in the preaching ministry of Lake Point is whatever is the end. area that is most sort of like that our culture is throwing at our people the most, we really try to hammer that the most. So this is a Martin Luther quote. I love this quote. I love Martin Luther. He said, if I profess with the loudest voice and the clearest exposition, every portion of the truth of God except precisely that little point which the world and the devil are at that moment attacking. I am not professing Christ,

however boldly I may be professing Christ. Where the battle rages, the loyalty of the soldier is proved. And to be steady on all the battlefield besides is mere flight and disgrace if he flinches at that one point. So stand up, get the word of God in your hand,

and choose violence. Holy violence. Holy violence. And violence because we have an enemy. me and you know Satan hates us and hates the church and like you said you know he's going to use what works to try to destroy it and I think Satan has learned his lesson that he cannot destroy the church from outside I mean a frontal attack you know Holy Spirit goes before us and and we'll attack him but there's that lesson I think that the destruction comes from within and it's

it's tied to Bellum again or Balim. And you know, when he didn't give that prophecy and he goes, well, but by the way hey, I can't curse them. But man, have you sent some pretty girls over there with the guys? They'll start sleeping with them and then they will bring in the idol worship.

You don't have to worry. And then judgment will come and ultimately it will be destroyed. And so I think Satan has learned that lesson. And so he goes, I want to destroy Lake Point. I want to destroy this church and he will come and do it within. And it's within our own, you know, our own sin.

But what can destroy a church is gossip. That's right. It's division. It's not, you know, we don't honor people. We don't submit. So all that, what we don't realize is that there's a spirit behind it trying to destroy. Ultimately, trying to do the same thing that this king was trying to do, destroy. the Israelites, but Satan has learned like, man, I'm going to do it from within.

That's right. So that's super dangerous. So the Bible says that the word of God is a sword and it destroys arguments, right? And so anything that's false or anything that goes against what the truth of Christ, this is why we love scripture so much because truth sets you free. And this is why we lean on those conversations. We want to speak truth into the things that everybody else is talking about in our culture. having said that there are also teachers in our culture that are basically preaching the opposite of what scripture says.

How do you know today? Man, that's a false teacher right there. And I need to be mindful of that. And honestly, you need to not listen to them. Okay. So this was one other thing that didn't make it. Both of the last two sermons, I wanted to get this in and didn't. And I like touched on it really fast. two podcasts ago, and I didn't get to do it. And I got a bunch of like, hey, dude, finish that thing. So I do think this is big. Like, if somebody's listening, especially like fathers and mothers, who you're responsible for the spiritual health of your family. So, dude, the pastoral landscape is just different, man. So like, Paul, like, think about this. You're, you know, you pastor like point of Spanish. Not even, like, dude, let's say even 50, you, you know, years ago, a pastor could control what Bible teachers and spiritual teaching his people heard

just based on who they invited to preach at their church and who they didn't. So it was much easier, for lack of a better phrase, to keep the sheep pen safe. Way easier. Now, I'm going to hold something up for audio listeners only. Now, everybody's got one of these. They've got a thousand wolves, false teachers in their pocket preaching, you know, anti-gospel, terrible, demonic, you know, reverse discipleship and reverse evangelism messages every time they're kids or they open up Instagram or TikTok. So more than any other time in all of church history, a disciple has to develop like a wolf detector. more than any other time in church history

because you got thousands of them in your pocket. So I'll give like, I'll give five and I'll do this real fast and then let's riff on it and see what you guys think. Because you literally have a forbidden fruit in your pocket. Like if you have an iPhone, you literally have a forbidden fruit. That's good.

Carrying all, wherever you go. You got the apple. Oh yeah, that's right. It's an apple with a bite out of me. Okay, so I'll give five. If somebody's going, okay, because what I can't do is sit down and tell somebody, I can't sit next to every person in our church and sit next to 25,000 people

and go, well, that's false teaching and that's not based on it. But what I can do is try to give them a filter that help them go, oh, I can recognize the wolves. All right, so here's five, five wolf filters. So the New Testament, these are all based on the New Testament calling false teachers, quote, wolves in sheep's clothing. So I'm going to give five. Number one, there are wolves in sheep's clothing. It does not say wolves in shepherd's clothing. There absolutely are sometimes false teachers that are pastors, but it says wolves in sheep's clothing, not shepherd's clothing. More frequently, it's just church members that infiltrate the church,

they get in life groups, they get in volunteer ministry teams, they start doing reverse discipleship. And here's how you know that's them. It's the person in your life group or in your volunteer ministry team that after sermons, they walk out complaining about what the pastor said, or they're like, ah, I don't think that actually means that. But I got a problem with that. And when you go to the word, the pastor's right.

So number one, there are wolves and sheep's clothing. A lot of times it's church members. The book of Jude talks about that as well. Number two, wolves don't act like sheep. Can I interrupt you? Come on, I don't know, any of them. How should anybody respond to that? Like if somebody in your life keeps going like, well, you know this or that,

I don't agree with that, and obviously they're wrong. What do you do? The New Testament says to rebuke a rebellious person. Open the word of God and like right here. It says right here, you know. Well, honestly, I think you rebuke a person, hey man, what you're doing is actually causing division in the body. Now, obviously, when there's a pastor that is actually teaching unbiblical things, that's not what we're talking about. Open the word.

Open the word. But yeah, if what they're doing is causing division, well, if it's team Satan, or team Jesus, we know which one is the one that does devour and divide. So, yes, that's number one. All right, so wolves and sheep's clothing. Number two, wolves don't act like sheep.

They're wolves in sheep's clothing. So they'll look like sheep, but they can't act like sheep. So wolves do not manifest the fruit of the spirit. When you watch somebody's life, is that a person? It's like, oh, wow, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, general, self-control.

So they can look like a sheep. they can talk the church game but they don't act like a sheep. Number three, wolves look like sheep but talk like snakes. So they're channeling, they're channeling Satan is what they're doing. So this is the person that's like,

oh man, you know, they do the, did God really say? That's what the serpent said in the garden. I talked about this real fast in the sermon, so I won't. This is the person who's like, oh man, I love the Bible, but I'm also affirming.

I love the Bible, but, you know, I think we should be pro choice. It's a bunch of like, did God really say stuff? Did God really say that that's wrong? Did God really say that we have to wait until we're married? Did God really do that stuff? Number four, wolves attack sheep and shepherds.

This is really important. That's just what wolves do. They devour sheep, they attack shepherds. So they attack, devour, and divide churches. They do not build and bless. So when you start looking around, ask the question, who are the people who helped build the church? Jesus said, I will build my church.

Who's on team Jesus? who builds and blesses, who attacks, devours, and divides churches? Hey man, you're looking at a wolf. Okay. It's Absalom. It's Absalom standing outside of David's throne room going, man, if I was David, I wouldn't have done that, you know. If I was the pastor, I wouldn't, you know, they devour and divide.

That's really good. And then last one, number five, dude, this is one, if somebody is listening, If you just remember this one, it's going to get you about 90% of the way there. Wolves travel impacts. Wow. Wolves travel impacts. So one of the times when we had a bit of a firestorm on the internet,

it was for a sermon that I'd done, and I felt really good about what I said. It was biblically true, but it was not, It was one of those things that gets you in trouble. And we were getting a bit of a firestorm. I had this really wise senior saint in our church. Grab me in the lobby afterwards, and this is where I got this idea of wolves traveling packs.

She said, man, at first I thought, well, everybody's mad at you. You must have done something wrong. And then she said, and then I started clicking through all the profiles of the people who were attacking you. And she was like, man, it was a bunch of people with like, she said, like witchcraft crystals in their, in their profile.

A bunch of people with pronouns in their bios and rainbow flat. And she's like, all of a sudden I realized, oh, wait, all the people that are attacking him hate the purposes and principles of God. And honestly, that was brilliant. She went, oh, wolves travel and packs. If you look around at a voice, somebody that's claiming to teach the Bible, or you, like, you see a little Instagram real or a TikTok real. and then you see, and they're saying something,

you're like, ah, is what they're saying true about the Bible or Jesus or spirituality? And you start clicking through all the people who liked it and it's all rainbow flags and pronouns and bios and witchcraft symbols. Wolves travel and packs. Why do the people that hate God like this thing? Hey man, that's going to get you 90% of the way there.

So those are the five filters. Well, I mean, the people that I respect and the voices that I want to hear something that I feel that there's something in calming is that they're always saying they're encouraging me to read the word they're encouraging me to like hey go deeper and like you know they will mention this and say oh and by the way the chapter i don't know in Isaiah that's your homework so they're always pointing to the word and so for me i think that has been a great example of people that are healthy they encourage you to go to the word the other ones when you're talking and you go like is you're you

they're supposedly Christian, but if it sounds exactly like a TED talk or some, you know, person, you know, I don't have nothing against, you know, counseling or whatever. But if you can just grab that and like literally say, well, that's this regular psychologist talking and there's nothing of the word. For me, it's just like, you know, maybe it's good advice, but I'm not taking it as the word of God for me and my family. Amen. Amen, Paul. When is somebody a false teacher and when is somebody just maybe a faithful Bible teacher that maybe made a mistake or maybe we disagree on some of the second tier, third tier theological issues? How do you, what would you say to somebody? Because I feel like there's some people in there, especially on social media these days,

they're just like their whole ministry is shoot at everybody that said that one thing. And so how do you know the difference? Like that's definitely a false teacher. You should stay away versus, man, that's somebody that you can listen and maybe be encouraged by. but you probably disagree on this, this, or that. So I'll say two things. One, if all somebody does, like some of these like, quote unquote,

discernment ministries or wolf shooting ministries, like honestly, man, I'm a little concerned that that person actually has a little wolf in them. Because go back to it, wolves attack, divide, devour, shepherds build and bless. If all you do, you're not doing building and blessing,

all you're doing is shooting. I'm like, man, I'm not sure that I'm seeing the spirit of Jesus in that. And there's a whole community that forms around it as well. I was like, yeah, like shoot the next one. It's nasty. It's nasty. Very demonic.

It's very phariseical. Yeah, it's nasty. Accuser of the brethren. Nasty. So one, that person alone, like, man, there's a Bible verse that's trying to come up in my head. I'm not going to go there.

War, nah, I'm not going to try to, I'm not going to try to. But so that's number one. Two, I think what I would say is there's a difference between being mistaken and being a false teacher. And here's a false teacher. It's somebody that on first tier issues, like whether that's orthodoxy or orthopraxy, I will say that, first tier issues. And by that, I mean, 1st Corinthians 15 talks about the core doctrines of the gospel being, quote, of first importance. So we're talking about core doctrines of the faith,

salvation by grace alone and faith alone through Christ alone. When somebody's like violating first-tier issues and teaching something that if believed is going to send somebody to hell, okay, now we're looking at a false teacher. And I will say that's also true for some issues of orthopraxy, not just orthodoxy. obviously 1 Corinthians 6 and as well as other passages it talks about how man it lists some of these

some of these core kind of sins of the flesh hey people who continue to practice sexual immorality will not inherit the kingdom of god so when you get somebody that's like they're very intentionally labeling evil as good and good as evil darkness as light and light as darkness, that's another one where I'm like, that's not, that person is not mistaken. That's a false, that's false teaching. Yeah. Any additional thoughts? I agree.

I mean, this, for me, it's very centered on Jesus, his divinity. And when it's like very iffy, like, well, you know, there's different ways, you know, that's very easy to discern that is when they're not clear that it's, Jesus is the only way, you know, that, you know, it's a controversy because, you know, is Jesus, like you said, alone. So I think when they're not clear on that, when they start justifying, like, certain sins, things like that, it's definitely not good. Yeah, I would say there's a difference between doctrine and a conviction and an opinion and a question, right? So I think doctrines are one of those things.

Like you would say, man, these are close-handed. we don't debate doctrine. Like we don't say, did God really say Jesus was really resurrected? Like we don't, like that's, we believe it, we hold on to it, that's a foundational thing. If a church were to say, ah, well, you know, it was just a spiritual resurrection.

It wasn't a physical, well, that kind of, you know, that's outside of the doctrine of the resurrection. It's a big deal. There's a conviction, you know, there's, I would say when it comes to any other things, somebody could have a personal conviction of, I don't know, something random, like, you know, not sending their kids to public school.

Should you read Harry Potter? There you go. You know, some people would say, you're going to have a conviction not to. Yeah, great. That's a conviction. There's also a conscious thing there that's different than the doctrine. And I think the problem comes where people have a conviction,

but they see their conviction as a doctrine. And so they expect other people to follow their conscious or their conviction that scripture gives you freedom in, but you're holding on to your conviction. And if you want to hold on, that's great. As long as you understand that that's a conviction, not a doctrine. And then there's an opinion. Man, I have an opinion on, you know, I like your shirt, but it's not a sin if you don't like it. And so again, that's the difference. And then obviously

there's a question, some things in the Bible that we're just going to be like, man, I don't know. What are the Nephilim? Yeah, I have no idea. And someday we will know, but I don't know now. And so I think that that might be helpful for some people. So what are those categories again? That's great. Yeah. So doctrine, conviction, opinion, question. That's great, man. So here's one that'll help the church. We can put a bow on it. with this. St. Augustine said, in essentials, unity, in non-essentials charity. No, no, sorry. St. Augustine said, this is important. We want to get it right. In essentials, unity, in non-essentials, liberty, in all things, charity. And then on those closed-handed issues that it's like, I mean,

this is core to the Christian faith. Yep, unity. And there's some things worth dividing a church over. There's a few things that are. Like if, you know, Paul, if Paul starts teaching that, that, you know, violating the exclusivity of Christ, and man, actually, you can believe in other religions and make it heaven. I love Paul, but we're dividing our church. Yeah. Well, you don't want to be united to error. That's right. Bingo.

There you go. But then in non-essentials, hey, man, what's your view of eschatology? Yeah. It's like, hey, man, we can have some, let's have some liberty there. And I was just going to say like, you know, this to, for people to realize that these are some real things. We were this in our discipleship last week, and people were in our church that said, hey, why is it so wrong that, yes, you know, Jesus is my Savior, but I can also pray and ask Mary to tell Jesus what to do. I mean, literally last week. So, you know, and I still get on my knees and pray to her and all that.

And so we have to be clear this is a non-negoti. This is Christ alone. He is the Camino de la Verdae la vida. The way, the truth in the life, man. Thank you. And so I think we have to realize that people, if we're not clear, I mean, people will grab this and go sideways on it. That's fantastic. You got time for one more thing?

Yeah, let's do it. All right. So speaking of whether something is a doctrine, a conviction or an opinion or a question, some people, first of all, we are asking everybody to submit their question. So by the way, keep doing that. And that helps us to address a specific topic. So drop it in the comments if you're joining on YouTube or on social media. We're posting a midweek story on your socials and Lake Point Socials. Here's one that we have that I think people are interested in.

And that is IVF. Yeah, we've gotten a lot. In vitro fertilization. What should a Christian believe about IVF? All right. So this is obviously super sensitive. So we should handle sensitive things sensitively. So let me say a few things.

One, if you're, if somebody in your life group or somebody in a relationship with you brings this up, here's what I recommend. I recommend your first question, your first response to their question, if they ask you about it, your first response being, hey, tell me why this is important to you. That's good. I think that's just like a pastoral hack where it's like, tell me why this is important to you. Because somebody may be coming at it from two super different angles. that require two super different emotionally calibrated responses. So that's number one. Let me say that.

Why is this important to you? Number two, and let me just go ahead and get myself in hot water. Where the Bible speaks, we should speak, and where the Bible remains silent, we should remain silent. There is nothing in the Bible. So I'm happy to be corrected. Somebody send me something, chapter and verse. There is nothing in the Bible that explicitly forbids IVF.

So if somebody, you know, please send me the verse that explicitly forbids it. So we should approach this with some graciousness. Now that said, I'll just be a little transparent. Jan and I, as most people know, Jan and I were diagnosed with what's called unexplained infertility about, I think it was like year four of our marriage, where we did all the tests and they were like, it's a very unhelpful diagnosis. Everything looks great, but y'all can't have kids and we don't know why. So we were like, oh, okay, great.

This was recommended to us. So, you know, I'm a Christian dad. I'm like, well, you know, I care about this and I want to make a biblically informed decision. So I start reading a ton. We chose not to do it. And I'll explain why Jan and I personally chose not to do it. That I think somebody could, there are some things that would be like,

man, as a Christian, you want to weigh this. Now, even before I say that, if you reach a different opinion, I think you have a ton of grace with this, because even if you think somebody made a mistake in doing it, they made a mistake, in your opinion, they made a mistake trying to do the right thing. You know, it's like sometimes people will make mistakes trying to do the wrong thing. You know, there's a teenager that's trying to, you know, get drunk at a party and they lie to their parents to be able to do it. That's making a mistake. That's sending doing the wrong thing. Sometimes people will make mistakes trying to do the right thing. And you should approach that radically differently, even if you differ with them on this. So here's why some Christians

have questions about the wisdom of this. In some, not, actually it begins here. what Christians typically do is they go, hey man, life begins at conception. Life begins at conception. You form me in my mother's womb. Life begins at conception. In some, not all, IVF attempts, more embryos are fertilized than are implanted and used. In some, not all. very frankly, some Christian families have ended up in some ways, almost like the victim of a medical industry that didn't tell them that.

It's like, I've met Christian couples who found that out on the back end, and they were like, what? They didn't tell. Or maybe they weren't clear enough or whatever it was. So then obviously, the question that some Christians will have is, man, if I believe that life begins at conception and more, embryos were fertilized, then get implanted and used. What a lot of Christians don't know is that on the back end, sometimes the ones that don't get used are destroyed by that medical facility. So then, you know, a lot of Christians go, man, if life begins at conception and then they just destroy those, man, actually my convictions, this is what some Christians would say, man, my convictions lead me to a

spot where I'm like, I'm at least asking the question, were, were human lives just destroyed? and if so, I don't know if I wanted to have, you know, part of that. And that's where the question comes from. Now, I will say there are, from what I understand, there are medical facilities that will work with people to go, we will only fertilize the number that we will implant. And, dude, that's different. That's real different.

So I think what I would say is this is one of those, you need to have grace and charity with people. if somebody figures out, like I've counseled people with this before where they didn't know what I just said. Years later, they discover that. And then especially a woman's conscience is like just totally overwhelmed. And what I would say to that person is, hey man, that's why we have the grace of the Lord Jesus. If you have that question in your spirit, why don't you just receive that grace, believe the gospel, and go to sleep real well tonight. knowing Jesus loves you.

That's good. It's like there's no reason for you to spend the rest of your life trying to figure out if you did something 27 years ago that, oh, no, you know, hey man, that's what the gospel's for. But those are the considerations that people will have. And I would encourage anybody to at least ask those questions. That's good. Trying to walk faithfully with Jesus there.

Would you guys add anything there? Yeah. No, you said it perfectly. All right. We're running out of time. But just last thing, what about when you sit on social media, you know, gay couples using IVF. That is another, that is a question

people have is they'll have like same-sex couples are using surrogacy and IVF to essentially like manufacture. Honestly, it's perverse and evil to like manufacture children to raise in same-sex marriages that obviously can't, they can't produce children.

That's not how God created it. And that, for some people, that just taints the whole industry. I will. hey man, you know, a little axiom I have is the abuse of a thing, does not negate the use of a thing. So obviously that shouldn't be happening, like manufacturing babies for same-sex couples to raise them in a perverse situation. That should not be happening. But again, I don't think that just, oh, well, just because of that, the question's completely moot. That's good, man. Well, that's helpful.

Thank you. Pastor Paul, could you pray for us? Amen. Yes. Yes, great. Lord Jesus, we just thank you so much for your grace and your love. And we just ask that your word will come into our life, into our heart as a seed, but will grow and create fruit and abundant fruit. And we ask and we pray right now a special blessing for all the people that are watching us or listening to us. And that your hand, your gracious hand will be upon them and their family. and that their best days will be their future days. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Amen. Thanks for joining us. For more biblical teaching and worship, join us for our Lake Point Church online live weekend services on Saturdays and Sundays. Also, if this podcast was helpful to you, would you be sure to rate, review, and share this podcast to help get the word out?

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