Live Free with Josh Howerton - Pastors CONFRONT Top 5 Megachurch Myths (ft. Joby Martin) | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Episode Date: October 14, 2026

Is God bringing revival to America while the Church faces more criticism than ever? And are megachurches really as bad as people say? Pastor Josh Howerton sits down with Pastor Joby Martin of The Church of Eleven22 for an unfiltered conversation about revival, biblical truth, spiritual leadership, and the power of the Gospel. Joby shares his incredible journey from a troubled teenager to leading one of America's fastest-growing churches, including his experience defending biblical Christianity in a liberal seminary. Together, they tackle online attacks against pastors, what Christian men should look for in a godly wife, biblical masculinity, and common megachurch misconceptions. Joby also shares unforgettable encounters with Billy Graham and John Piper, along with powerful stories of lives being transformed through prison ministry. Through it all, one message stands out: The Church isn't called to chase crowds, but to make disciples of Jesus Christ. In this episode, you'll discover: Why churches are experiencing revival and opposition simultaneously. How to recognize biblical truth amid criticism and false teaching. What Christian men should prioritize when pursuing marriage. Why biblical leadership requires both strength and sacrificial love. The truth behind common megachurch myths about money, growth, and discipleship. How the Gospel is transforming lives inside America's prisons. Stand firm. Think biblically. Live free. 🧢 Want a Live Free hat of your own? Visit LiveFree.shop 📲 Looking to grow deeper in your faith? Check out the Lakepointe App to access our Discipleship Guide, daily Bible reading plan, and more. Text APP to 20411 to download

I don't care if you have oceanfront property in Pontibed Beach or you're in cell block D and Marion Correctional. If you put your faith in Jesus, he'll change everything about everything about everything. The unspoken role with the world has with pastors, you take it easy on us, we'll take it easy on you. And the second a pastor breaks that rule, all hell will break loose on your life. But that's the moment all of heaven starts to break loose in your church. Amen. Well, hey, Lifree Nation, before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Point Church in Dallas. but the live free nation is spread all over the country

and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this, we want to invite you to take a simple next step, and that is join us for church online. Every weekend we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online platform, and it's more than just watching a service.

There are a live host in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, the faith, coming back to church, or just looking for a place to start. Church online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend, and now enjoy the podcast. Bishop Joby-Martin, welcome to live free.

Pastor Josh Houtherton, it's always a pleasure. Dude, this is awesome. So we're actually recording right here from the retreat center. Where are we? Where? Woodbine Georgia. This is awesome, that we're leading a cohort with some great dudes. The future is bright in the local American church, brother. Yeah. So you want to, because they don't know what I'm talking about. What's the postage stamp we're doing right now? Do you mean with the pastors?

Yeah, yeah. We're doing for some other people, what some other people did for us, man. This was your idea. I had finished something at Lake Point, and we were hanging out by your fire pit, and you talked me into getting together some of the young guys, that guys just got his hand on and spending some time with them. And so I said, if you'll do it with me, I'll do it.

And here we are. It's awesome, man. Yeah. This is your second time on the pod. Yeah, I know. I'm excited about it. Let me just, I'm going to say something. And then every time I have you on, I'm going to say the same thing because I want people to know it.

They probably makes you uncomfortable. I'll do it every time. In 2019, here's my little thing. In 2019, for people who don't know, I had eight months of, like, pretty aggressive anxiety attacks. And way back then, I decided her, preach, news preacher, and I decided on Joey Martin. And so

when I was 2019 for those eight months, every single Monday, I would just wake up, walk down to the bass pond, open my Bible, get my coffee, and listen you preach. And I heard a million times things like, what's propitiation? It's a payment that satisfies. What's condemnation mean? It's a

builder's term, meaning unfit for you. I can do all the things. And dude, you know, I I don't know why I can't talk about it might have sweating, but the Lord used you to pull me out of the hardest. It was the hardest season in my entire life, and I'd take a bullet for you. And I'm very, very grateful for your friendship

and the way God used you in my life. Thank you. You're welcome. I knew about you before I knew you. I had been watching from afar because I knew Stroop so well. Yeah. And I was just cheering you on when you took over and took off. And so it was kind of crazy that had any kind of impact in your life.

whatsoever. So I've been a big fan of all the things you've been doing for a long time. Well, it's significant. Bro, I tell my church this all the time. Literally this last week's sermon, I went through this whole thing. I was like, Joby, he's like, if Billy Graham and Larry the Cable guy had a baby. And I, you know, and I was like, hey, man, he's my preacher. 10% of everything you hear came from Joby Mark. I tell him all the things. Well. You're pastor in my church vicariously. Lake Point is an amazing church. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, the thing is, the people that criticize those of us that quote other preachers and don't spend 45 minutes just footnoting

our sermons. I mean, we give credit often and we sprinkle it in there. So I've said it before. You can't steal what's freely given. And so, you know, I've learned from so many people. I've used your stuff all the time. I try to say my friend Josh Howard and said, but you can't say that like nine times in one paragraph. You know what I mean? I've heard you do this. I've done this too before. Occasionally I'll just stop and I'll say much of this sermon came from one of these four people. Yep. You know.

But it's kind of sad that we live in a day and age where we, I mean, I'm all for giving credit. Yeah. But just to even have to change anything because of what the nice airs will say. Well, that's one of the things I want to talk about. So like, let me just, if you're listening, let me give you heads up, we're going to go. First of all, both of us by God's grace, and we say this, I pray with the most amount. of humility before the Lord of people. We're seeing unique things happen in our churches.

And I want to talk about, I think, both of us baptized. We baptized almost 900 people last week. How many people did you baptize a second ago? 927. Yeah, man. Last Sunday for us. I don't even know how to describe it. And when I was a kid, I could not have you even fathomed it.

So I want to talk about, like, what we're seeing around a country. I want to, if we feel comfortable, maybe we'll edit this out. I want to talk about new realities facing pastors where it's like there's like a whole online industry of pastor critique, which is new. Bro, that's new to it. That's a little new to me. It's kind of weird, isn't it?

It's a little weird, man. Sometimes the Bible's called sin. Other people call ministry. That's weird. Well, we'll get there. We'll get there. Because, dude, I will say, for listeners, I'll probably only do this once.

It's like, I want to help people who are in churches because they don't know how to think about it. Correct. They just see crap online and they're like, is that true? And I'll double down on live free, I don't know when this is coming out. So for me, it was Monday. Yeah. Because you talked about calling out sheeps and wolves clothing.

Yeah. Particularly in your state, man. Yeah. You got a crazy person trying to be in charge. Just smidge. Bro. And his... You know God has six-genres.

Quote, quote-unquote pastor. Yeah. So anyway, there is a place for that. Yeah. but the Bible talks a lot about disunity. It doesn't say good things. We'll get there. Okay.

We'll get there. And then, dude, I just, you know, we'll do our best to be as wise with as we can. Okay. One of the most frequent questions we get, because, like, live free is a lot of people, but it's a bunch of young dudes. So, like, one of the big questions guys have is, like, they're looking at demographics, and it's like, man, young women skewing hard left. Yeah. Young men skewing hard right. And then honestly, dude, there's a bunch of young guys going, like, where do I find?

a good wife now. Well, didn't you find your wife from a demographic study? I did not. We'll get to that too. Oh, gosh. And then last thing I want to do is, we'll just try not to step in it, is rapid fire megachurch myths, like objections that people do. So let me start right here, man.

Because like, I like hearing the stories of the people that influence me. Give me the three minute, how did a kid from, you know, maybe a rougher background from Dylan, South Carolina, go from there. to pastoring, I'll just say it, I'll say something you won't say, the fastest growing church plant in American history. Well, my daddy said the best thing ever come out of dealing in South Carolina is I-95, and that's a fact. Bro, we didn't grow up in church at all. We would go on Easter only.

And great church, I'm sure, and I just didn't connect. It just wasn't part of our world. I got in some trouble in high school, found myself at a camp run by one of the deacons, coach Bull Lee from that church. And that's where I met Jesus. The counselors reenacted the crucifixion of Christ. And for the first time, when Jesus says it is finished, I knew it counted for me. And this was old school Baptist, so we sang just as I am about 18 times around a campfire on the last night of camp. And then Coach Lee gets up and says, I think there's one more.

And it was me. And I got saved. And then I started working at that camp. Like just cutting the grass and stuff. And then one day I'm like 18 years old and I'm in the back of the room, maybe 19. And Coach Lee said, boy, when the guy's done singing, you're up. And he was singing, I am a C with an overhead projector. Hand motions.

Yeah, you know, you had that. You had to have that one person like hold the words and like move him up and down. I was that guy in the youth ministry. Let's go. And I was like, coach. Anyway, I told him I wasn't comfortable. And just imagine 1980s hardcore football coach. He said, boy, did you say comfortable?

You think Daniel was comfortable in the Lions Den? He's preaching me a sermon back there. And you think Paul and Silas are comfortable in prison. Boy, do you think Jesus Christ was comfortable on the cross? I was like, no. And I said, Coach, what do I talk about? He said, boy, that's easy. You talk about Jesus.

You talk about 30 minutes ago. And I preached my first sermon. And some kids got saved. And when I got done, he put his finger in my chest and said, boy, when you teach the Bible, I see you come alive and I see them come alive. And then a few months later, I'm just serving at my church while I'm in college,

leading 10th grade boys. And we were doing a disciple now weekend, and the guy gives a salvation invitation and like a read education opportunity, and then some of you maybe called the full-time vocational ministry, and I was overwhelmed with the presence of God. I had to go to my dad and say,

Daddy, I'm not going to seminary. I mean, I'm not going to med school. I just got accepted to the medical college of Virginia. And I said, I'm not doing that. I'm going to seminary. And he's like, what is seminary? And I said, well, it's like, like school for preachers. And he's like, why the heck you need a school to be a preacher?

He only study one book and work half a day a week. I was like, I don't know, but I feel like that's the next step. Bro, it's funny. That's like what? Half of our churches actually think. Yeah, 100%. I don't really think that. 100%.

So that's what I did. And then I was a youth pastor. And I thought I was going to do student ministry forever. Well, wait, let me do you say real quick. Didn't you go to like, didn't you go to like a pretty liberal seminary? No, I went to a very liberal seminary. Oh, okay.

Very, very, very. It's like, if I allowed to ask it if we need to edit anything out. No, we don't have anything. What was it? And then what was it? I've never heard you tell this. So it's Baptist Theological Seminary of Richmond. Okay.

And a part of the problem when you don't grow up in church, you don't know what's happening in church world. Yeah, yeah. So all of the professors that did not believe the Bible when they got fired from the big six Southern Baptist schools, because they were heretics, they assembled together with great animosity and started Baptist City of the School Seminary of Richmond. And I thought, well, I'm working out of Baptist Church. There's a Baptist school right here. I mean, I visited Southwestern and Southern and Southeastern. I thought that's where I'd go. And I love those students.

that I was serving. And I just didn't know, and it's all my responsibility, and nobody told me. And I showed up on campus, and I'm like, what the heck? And so we're about, it's like my third week, and my professor is, she's talking about the resurrection

as if it's a myth or a story. And I'm like, hold on a second. I got a question. She said, what's up? And I was like, it sounds like you don't believe in the bodily resurrection. And she goes, well, what if I don't? I said, well, when I get to heaven, you won't be there.

You said it isn't a class. I'm three weeks in with this professor who has a Ph.D. in Johanin' literature. Okay. And I got saved at summer camp single digit years ago and had done many quiet times. And so my whole seminary experience and the Lord, like, things were going so well in the student ministry. And I also thought that, you know, these kids will never. relieve me. I didn't realize they graduated every four years and, you know, that kind of thing. And so I was just so in love with what I was doing.

So I had to go to war every class. I had to get permission to write papers twice as long. And I would literally say, and I've got, I can be a bit antagonistic. And now in 53, when I was 24 or whatever, it was bad. And I would say, this is the heresy you've been teaching. Because, you know, basically for a paper in school, you just have to regurgitate what they've been telling you. I would say, and this is biblical Christianity. Bro.

And I had to petition the president to graduate. No. Because they failed me. Everybody failed me. Seriously. And I just had to be like, listen, I've done the work, and y'all just disagree with me theologically, me and Jesus. But that's fine.

And then I finally was like, do you really want me back? And he said, congratulations, you can walk. So did you stay all three years? Yep. I'm just curious. I've never asked you. What made you stay three years when it was like, I'm surrounded by actual heretics?

The churches I was serving. I got to stay with these people. That's it. I was just serving in the local church. What's interesting to me about that is like, you know, I think it's Dark Night Rises, where they throw Bruce Wayne down in the pit, they brace his back.

And then the whole process of him climbing out is how it becomes Batman. Yeah. It's like a little bit of like, well, that's a little bit of how Jobia became Batman. Yeah, I was a little bit of an apologist before I even knew what that was. because I had to argue Orthodox Christianity

against people that were exponentially more educated than me. We didn't even plan to talk about this. I'm curious. What were like the other main things that they were pumping out in that seminary that was like, I had to deal with that? Everything that you call progressive Christianity. Oh, it was that.

But this is the mid-90s. So I started in 95th. So nobody had ever heard, like, sexuality kind of up to you and it's biblical. Dominique Crozen and the Jesus seminars where they're voting on what Jesus may have said, may not have said. That was like,

they would say things like, this isn't the word of God, this contains words from God. Things like that. And in fact, you were required to attend chapel and I would go. And then somebody from the chapel stage

gave this very, very disparaging context. comment on Adrian Rogers and people cheered. And I was like, I'll never be back. If you're listening and you don't know who Adrian Rogers is, legend. Legend. One of the greatest preachers in the history of America. Right. Bible believer, 10 toes down.

Yeah. And so I'm back in the president's office. I'm like, you have to come to chapel. And I say, that is a house of gossip. Like, can we just walk through the epistles on what the Bible says that we're supposed to be doing in there? So funny enough, I have preached at most of the Southern Baptist seminaries as a guest chapel speaker. I've never been invited back to.

And if I did go, I would go on a mission trip to share the gospel. Yeah. What would you preach? Like off the top of your head. I would preach this passage. Just probably straight Romans three. Yeah. Just the gospel, because honest, goodness, they need to get saved.

They need to get saved. They need to surrender their life to the Lordship of Christ. All right. So I'm sorry. I dovetail this. So, all right. The good news is none of them work at church. Yeah.

They all work in coffee shops. And they all made fun at me because I, you know, I was always like, I got to go lead a youth group. Yeah. But it's a great way to do seminary because the whole deal will be like, that won't preach because it's not true. Yeah. So it was helpful. All right. So you get out of there, then, you know, I just want to get from there to, I'm pastor in the fastest growing church plant in American history is 35,000 people.

I graduate and then it finally dawns on me. Oh, no. nobody's going to hire me. I wouldn't hire me from this place. And this incredible godly man named Dr. Bill Ross hired me, and I got to work at Vinton Baptist Church just outside of Ronek, Virginia. And it was just the time of my life, man. Student ministry's growing and blowing. He's showing me how to be a man. In the ministry, I meet Gretchen in the gym about four months after I get there

within a year and a half. We're married. and then he, Dr. Ross, says, I'm going to Athens to work at a church there, and I want y'all to come with me and run students in college. So we get there. Most of the people in that church are liberal, and I didn't realize that. And the only people that really wanted, like, Bible believing, Bible teaching folks was the committee that hired me and Dr. Bill. God bless them.

But, boy, we got beat down. I came this close to leaving ministry in 2003. Gretchen talked me into staying in and giving it one more chance. chance that landed us in Jacksonville, Florida, and Beach Church under Pastor Jerry Sweat, the best Christian I've ever met my whole life, did that for about 10 years. We started a service that started at 1122 a.m. on Sunday mornings, and I just called it that so that people would know at time to come, and I'm not creative. In about, I don't know, in less than a year, our services, it turned into four or five services, and it outgrown the church we were at. And he came to me,

and said, I think you should plant a church and we'll plant you. And then they let us live there for another year and a half while we got everything together, renovated in all Walmart. And we launched 1122, September 23rd, 2012. 14 years ago. Yeah. Dude, for people who are listening, like, they don't know how rare what Jerry Sweat was his name. Yeah.

They do not realize, like, no one does what he did. Like, no pastor anywhere looks at a massive service in. in his church and then says, hey, man, you know what you ought to do? Take all these people in my church and leave so that the kingdom can advance. Nobody does that. Yeah, and he, and at that point, that church was a part of the United Methodist denomination, but it wasn't like your United Methodist guy that's running for office. It's not like that.

Dude, we went to one of his conferences one time. I should tell you about that. Who you talking about? What's his name? You just talked about. James Tolerigo? Nope, the other guy that you mentioned. Adam.

Oh, Adam Hamilton. Yeah, his heretic running for, literal. I'm not saying that it'd be me. Like an actual literal heretic. An actual heretic. I went to the first session, and the whole session was about how his church is for thinking people, because, you know,

normal church people aren't smart enough to tell them how the Bible actually got put together and stuff. You went to his... Well, Beech Church was a Methodist church, and it was a big church. And so our team was trying to... I didn't sign up. I'm not a Methodist.

Yeah, you don't know. And so I just show up with the team, and I was like, I'm not going on this crap. Yeah. And I didn't. I went and, like, shared the gospel on the street, and worked on my youth talk while everybody else was in these. Anyway, so I'm not surprised that that was like the beginnings of it,

but it was terrible. So anyway, Beach was a Jesus-loving, love-lost people kind of church. Love the Bible. Love the Bible. And since then, they have left the United Methodist Church when they went just complete apostat. Yeah, again, for people who don't know, the United Methodist Church made an actual decision

to like just actually institutionally embrace heterodoxy and LGBT affirming a few years ago. And not just firming, but like in positions of leadership and pastoral positions and, I mean, just... So when he's talking about them leaving the denomination, he's not saying that as a bad thing. He's saying that is a very, very good thing. Well, there's what happened. That denomination left the Bible. Yes.

And beat church stayed with the Bible. Bingo. That's a better way to say it. We didn't move. Correct. No, you move, we didn't move. It's a great church, man. It's still a great church.

That's awesome, dude. Yeah, yeah. I mean, Pastor Jerry, we just did a church leader summit at 1122 and had almost 2,000 pastors. we told Pastor Jerry's story and he opened the whole thing in prayer. I love that you did that. Of course. That's awesome.

Yeah. Okay, let me transition, but it's real... So like right now, for real, you're the, I tell people this all the time. Church 1122, which, by the way, I think it's absolutely... People ask me all the time because I quote you all the time. What's the Bible verse behind 1122? It is.

And Mark 1122. Oh, really? Oh, I proof-texted one. It's hard to find... So you came up with it afterwards. Yeah, yeah. We picked the time first, and a guy started making bumper stickers and handing them out

so when we started the church. Gretchen was like, are we really going to call it 1122? I'm like, well, we're going to do it all the bumper stickers? It's kind of a thing. And so there's not a lot of good 1122 verses. Proverbs 1122 says, like a gold ring and a pig snout is a woman without discretion. So that was almost our theme.

That's the 1122 Women's Conference headline. Mark 1122 says Jesus answered, have faith in God. There you go. Yeah. Good, we found something. Yeah. All right. So, man, both of us are seeing,

my, honestly, in my wildest dreams, when I got called me ministry when I was 16, I could not have imagined being a part of what we get to do right now. Totally. Honestly, like, you know, I think we baptized 882 a couple weeks ago. And, dude, I just sat in the back, and honestly, I cried like a little baby. I did.

I was just back there. My, I was sweating. You guys baptized, bro. We've baptized. That's 4,000 people. this year. It's like 5,084. Dude, and if you're lit, like, I don't think you understand in all of church history, there may be a small handful of churches who have seen that.

So, like, let me just ask a question. We'll just get right at it. Both of us are seeing really unique moves to God at our churches. You know, I'm so, man, like, I don't know about you, but I feel like we're breaking, like, I feel like I'm breaking a lot of the rules. Everybody told me what you need to do and not do to grow a church. Like, hey, man, never preach about. of a sixth grade level. You know, anything that's any controversial, you know, has a little edge to it.

You know, just keep that private. We'll handle that in conversations, not from the pulpit, be a mile wide and an inch deep. And bro, you, like right now, you're, what week of preaching verse by verse through Matthew are you in? How many weeks are you going to do a Matthew total? However many weeks there have been in the year, we started the first week of January.

We'll take it all the way to, like, Thanksgiving. Yeah. A couple years ago, I'll listen every single one of them. You started the year and you went, hey guys, hope you like the book of Romans because the entire year we're Romans you're gonna love it

and so it's like man you guys my favorite I say this all the time I say this Philpathy Mitchell there's two ways to preach you can preach like a feather duster or you can preach like a jackhammer I like guys who preach like a jackhammer

where they just sort of open up the word and the word is the sword in the word and they just choose violence I love me some Philip Anthony Mitchell yeah God has blessed our generation with his voice.

Yes. He's a godly man. Yes. And you only get to see a glimpse of it on stage. Like the real Philip Anthony Mitchell's best days are in that prayer closet, just getting after it. But my kind of normal routine now, because our first service starts on Thursday nights

and I'll at 522, and so I'll try to get everything buttoned up by two, run across the street to the gym, and listen to a Philthap Anthony Mitchell sermon, just a like. That'll get you good. workout. That's it. It just, I just need that little extra fire as I'm going in. And so he's been an incredible blessing. All right. Well, honestly, all three of us, it's like, you know, and this is

no shade at anybody. We're just, people do it different. But honestly, it's kind of like all the stereotypes of megachurches, I kind of feel like y'all, you break all of them. We don't do any. Yeah. He's like, you don't do any of that stuff. You know, it's, it's not a mile wide and an inch deep. You know, you're preaching verse by verse through Romans for 45 weeks. So here's the question. Okay, you're breaking all the quote-unquote rules, and yet you're seeing an outpouring of the spirit. It's like an open heaven over 1122. Why do you think some of the churches that are breaking all the rules are the ones that are seeing the most kingdom advance right now? I think some of it is just the favor of God. There are people that preach better than me

and know the Bible better than I do and pray harder than I do. And in God's sovereign plan, he's just decided to put his favor upon us. I don't know. I don't know how to explain it. We sing all the same songs. We all teach from the same Bible.

I don't know. I appreciate the guys that have gone before us that fall all like the worship wars and we can preach in jeans and, you know, not take ourselves seriously. I have a great appreciation for that. But I'm glad we've gone beyond that. And I'm not, I'm not.

in the crowd business. We're in the disciple-making business, and I think that's the difference. I think the quote-unquote seeker has changed. And I think folks are saying, okay, if I'm going to show up and give you an hour and a half at a church, then just give me the goods, man. Yes. Just put, what are you asking, what is he asking me to do? Just tell me what it actually says. And I don't need a bait and switch. Just tell me what it says. And I think, And then ultimately, Jesus said, if you lift him up, he'll draw all men unto you. So I can't save anybody. And I'm not in the crowd business.

I'm not just trying to get bigger attendance. I'm trying to make disciples. That is the imperative in the Great Commission. Yeah. I think there's really something to, like, there's a spiritual aspect and there's a human reality. Like, there is no, like, the thing that I'll tell the church all the time is, amen. The Spirit of God offered the Word of God. And so the preaching the word of God attracts the presence of God.

And if we get the presence of God, the presence of God will attract the people. Amen. And so it's like, man, if you just, there's a listen, dude, I don't care who you are, there's power in that book. The other thing, man, is a lot of guys, they're like preaching for the audience of their favorite, famous Christian pastor that their hopes listening. First of all, he ain't listening. Or they're preaching to impress their dead seminary professors.

He ain't listening. Bro. He ain't listening. I'm just preaching to the man and the woman that I see sitting right there in the second row. So if, because I'll tell you, there's been a couple times where I feel really intimidated because I'm preaching a conference with like John Piper. And I'm like, he is going to laugh at my illustrations and think it's silly because you're right. There's a lot of Larry, the cable guy in there because it's just who I am and Howard grew up and a lot of that stuff.

I use all your jokes. But the reality is, is what Dr. Piper actually did. the first time I met him as I walk up to him, there's, I mean, of all the preachers, I got to have dinner

with Billy Graham one time and then shake hands with Dr. Piper and share a stage with him, like back-to-back preaching. I walk up to him, I'm like, Dr. Piper, I know everybody told you this million times,

but I just want to tell you again, I'm Joe B. Martin from 1122, and he goes, I know 1122. And I was like, hold on one second. Gretchen, come here.

Can you say that last part again? Okay. Nothing but encouraging. encouragement, nothing but incurred. Do you know how he heard about you? Probably Matt Chandler. Ah, yeah. Just because they're real tight.

Yeah. And then he says, will you sit with me in this service? So we're sitting together on the front row. His leg is touching in my leg. And I'm like, Lord, would you pass the double? Elijah to Elijah on me, you know? I believe in impartation in this moment.

Then he said, will you pray for me? For I preach. I'm like, yes, sir. So anyway. But I'm not trying to preach to John Piper. I'm trying to preach to just the people that show that God brings to 1122.

People in struggling marriages and prodigal kids and people have been a Christian a long time but they feel stuck, whatever it is. And I think a lot of times too many preachers are like trying to go viral instead of just be faithful to the text and just preach the word. That's right, man.

It's really interesting. So I'm reading Charles Schwarzenberger right now. Let's go. and because I listen to you so much, I'm reading the stuff about his preaching, and there was a sentence I read the other day, and I was like, that's Joey. Because what the guy said, the biographer said,

if you don't know who that is and you're listening, Charles Spurgeon is generally considered the greatest preacher since the New Testament era. It's called him the Prince of Preachers. He was pastor in a church of 10,000. I just read the other day. He preached 24,000 people at one time without a microphone. And this is like mid-year,

delayed 1800s, no mic, you know, and the dude was just a baller. And they said this about his preaching while I read it. I was like, that's Joby, is they said the thing, the two things that marked Charles Spurton's preaching is he had an extremely high Christ, he's had a very high theological, you know, awareness and undergirding, his Puritan got all the things, all the things. But because he experienced, and I'm not saying this is why you do it, I'm just talking about what you do. Because he experienced. Because he experienced. like extreme suffering. His wife was an invalid.

He had extreme, I think it was Bright's disease is what now they think it was his whole life. They said he had this thing where like his preaching will go really high doctrinally but then really low at the compassion level where it just felt like it's a man just crawling up right next to your hospital bed

and there was a tenderness to him. And when I read that sentence I was like, that's Jovey Martin. Yeah. That's that. Well, I love Jesus and I love people. Yeah. And I want the people that I love to love Jesus because he first loved them.

That's right. And so I just tell them about it. I got to do this. We didn't plan to do this, but I got to do this. Will you tell the Billy Graham story? Oh, man. I'm on a mission trip. And this guy calls me, and he's a doctor at Mayo.

And Dr. Graham will come to Jacksonville and go to Mayo to do all of his checkups and stuff. And he was attending 1122. And he's like, hey, I need to pray about something. Would you and Gretchen like to have dinner with us and Dr. Billy Graham? And I'm like, bro, some things you don't pray about, okay? I literally can't even imagine. I have prayed for this. So I'm like, of course.

So we show up. And this is not like you're invited to a dinner with. And there's a hall of people and the guys up on stage. No, no, no. It was the homeowner, his wife, their daughter, Dr. Graham at the head of the table, me, Gretchen, and then Dr. Graham traveled with like a travel companion and a nurse. That's it.

at the family dining room table. So I read two of his biographies in the couple of weeks going into it just so I'd be all fresh. And I walk in the door, and there's Billy Graham. And he had met, in one of his biographies, he met like Joe DiMaggio or some famous player, and he was like, oh, it's a great day of my life.

And so when I met him, I was like, Dr. Graham, I was reading about how when you got to meet, I think it was Joe DiMaggio, this is that moment for me. And he says, oh, pastor, tell me about your church. And I was like, baby, do you know how you call me pastor? She's like, it's because I don't know your name. I'm like, woman. So we had just baptized, I think it was 126 people the weekend before in the ocean.

And I was like, well, we just baptized 126 people. He's like, he looks shocked. He backs up and he goes, I've never heard of such a thing. And I was like, you know, I think you have. I read that you had 75,000 people in Seoul Korea get saved three years ago, but okay, you know what I mean? But here's the thing, dude, he never compared my ministry to his ministry. He just celebrated what we were doing.

So we sit down at dinner. We were together maybe like four and a half hours. And we sit down at dinner and we're just kind of chatting. And then he looks over at Gretchen, he goes, Ms. Martin, I understand that you're a worship leader at the church. And he was like, she said, yes, sir. And he said, will you sing me a song? And Gretchen

looks at me, and I was like, if Billy says sing woman, you better sing. So she gets up. He couldn't hear very well, see very well at this point. And she comes over and kneels down and she just starts singing the song and he closes his eyes and he just lifts his hand at the table.

No show. He's just, okay? And then she looks at, looks at me, and you know how when it's just slamming at the end of the service and the altars are flooded and you're like, I know we scheduled one song, but, and she looked at me and I did to just like, let's keep it going, the buses will wait. And so eventually she gets done, he looks right in her eyes and he goes, I believe that's the most beautiful song I've ever heard. Now listen, my wife can sing, but he's heard some songs, man. But again, there was no comparison. I ask him to pray for our ministry. He grabbed my hand in Gretchen's hand and never

mentioned the ministry. He said, God, I pray for this man. I pray you'll protect him from himself. I pray for his marriage. I pray that he would love his wife and he would make disciples and you will build your church. And when he's, we were driving home. And, uh, Gretchen was like, something's different in my life. And she had been leading worship and kind of reluctantly, she had all the talent, she didn't want to be on stage, everybody looked at her. That was gone and broken.

And then right before dinner was over, I said, Dr. Graham, if you could preach one more crusade, what would it be? And I mean, before I got the sentence out, he said that would be Galatian 614. Now, at that point in my life, I had yet to memorize Galatian 614. I didn't even know what it said. So I was just mooing like, I was like,

Mm-hmm, Galatians, Mm-hmm, that is so, and I pull my phone out and go to my U-Version Bible out because he can't see. Shout out, Craig. And I go to Galatian 614, which is far be it from me to boast in anything, except the cross of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the man that's got the right to brag about everything. Yeah, man.

Bro, what's... That was our time together. That's the story. No doubt. It was so interesting about that, is like, so two guys that have influenced both of us significantly.

It's funny, you and me have a similar story with the John Piper sermon from Passion One Day. By the way, my XP, Tim Smith, shout out, he helped...

Did you know he helped quarterback that Passion One Day? No way. Bro, he's the one that did like a bunch of the... He set up that, all that stuff? So he was there and everything.

I have the, not the one that Dr. Piper was holding, but I have the reader digest that he reads from. You showed it to me when I preach a love. Yeah, somebody heard me preach about it. And they had it after their, like, Grandma had it to their house.

They brought it to me sitting on my desk. I think we have a sit. We're going to move on and talk about what we were going to talk about. But I think we got a similar thing. Shout out. His name was Lewis Curd at Union University. He handed me a burn CD of that nagum sermon. And I bet I'll listen to that thing, no joke, 200 times.

I could literally could have quoted that sermon, I think, word for word. when Jan and I started dating, we go on a blind date, I think it was like our third date. I was like, hey, instead of music, let's listen to this. And in my mind, it was kind of like, if she's out on this, I'm probably out on her. Yeah.

It's like, it is, I don't think I'd be doing what I'm doing if it wasn't for God pouring out of spirit. I was leading to college ministry at UGA, and we had a Bible study that night, and this kid comes in, and he had a bootleg DVD of the event, and he was like, can we watch this? I was like, okay. And I remember, man, like all the cool people were there.

It's like David Crowder, Louis, I mean, all the, like the coolest Christians ever. And then out comes this man who looks like he works at Blockbuster. Ill-fitting dockers. Yeah. We watch it beginning and in. It's only like 42 minutes. And then everybody's undone. And the whole point out of it is just don't waste your life.

That's the whole point. Don't chase after the things of this world. Just chase after Jesus. is find your joy in him by being on mission for him. It finishes. Everybody looks at me because I'm like the college pastor

and I just said, play it again. And we just, we watched it three times. Jeez. What's interesting is the boast only in the cross. So you got that from Graham.

That's like Piper's thing. I think he mentions it in that sermon if it's that or the other one. But it's very interesting. Galatian 614 and there may be something too. Hey, real quick, can somebody look up like what people, if people want to search that

YouTube, that, that sermon on YouTube, can somebody tell me what to search? Because people are going to, you will want to pause this podcast and go listen to that. Just tell me whenever you find it. But do you, that just, it wrecked my life. It completely, it's still wrecking my life. I mean, I still, well, never real, we'll move on.

Okay. Am I get it? Boasting only in the cross, Passion One Day, 2000. Worth your time. Correct. Worth your time. Okay, let's fast forward and talk about this stuff.

Okay. So I want to see what you think about this. So almost every pastor I know, I think probably both of us, but almost every pastor I know, they're experiencing two things simultaneously at the same time. More salvation, more outpouring of God's spirit, more baptism, and more opposition, more honestly, just sort of like viciousness.

and then more sort of attack. And I feel like both those are happening at the same time. I'm honestly just curious. You got any thoughts why you think that is? On the last Live Free, you talked about the 50-year cycles of revival and communication breakthroughs that accompanied those things. I triple stamp that, no takebacks, man.

I'm into it. I also think in the, I remember COVID, all the race riots, everything's burning down, all of that that was going on in 2020, and we're all freaking out. I happened to be with Larry Osborne, and he's like, guys, this isn't new. Y'all don't remember the late 60s? And we were like, well, we weren't born yet. So say more. Very, very similar. And out of that comes to Jesus' Revolution.

That's right. Dude, it's interesting. About five years ago, six years ago, I did a series for a long time in our church called Gospel Awakenings where we just studied the ingredients of revival and we began to pray for 1122. Why not us? Why not here? Why not now?

Interesting. Yeah. Did you do just like revival texts in the scriptures? What'd you do? Like you go like Nehemiah? This is from memory. It was more like some of the things that some of the ingredients, according to really smart people,

was a pursuit of holiness. There was a, like, serious, serious repentance, people getting serious about evangelism, not as a strategy, but, like, the people they loved. And then there's the unexplainable spirit of God shows up. And so we did a week on each of those, and we were praying for a revival. And we are in it.

And so are you. And then you're right. And then the, I mean, you know, I reached out to you a couple weeks ago. By the way, thanks again for that. You and Philip talking. It ministered to my soul at just the right time and just the right way. And so I appreciate it. But yeah, man, people have become more and more vicious.

And one of the things you've reminded me of is that that's not new, man. It's just, you know, same demons, different days. That Paul would go into a city, revival would break out and a riot would follow. and the internet has just made normal people really mean. Bro, yes. I mean, I heard Pekluda said this at our place last week, but when I was growing up, if somebody said something about you,

you'd say, say it in my face. And there were some consequences involved. You know, if you can't say it to somebody's face or you wouldn't say it that way to somebody's face, then you probably shouldn't type it. Bro, it's been interesting. Text it, tweet it, any of it. Something. Yeah. I think that like there's a little, there's a little schema that like, I just, I did, I think I did 40, 44 weeks in Acts. And bro, here's a little exercise for like, if you're a listener or you're a pastor, like, here's a little exercise for you. So like, all right. So, uh, obviously, uh, this like, I've heard somebody said, whatever God creates Satan counterfeits. So yeah, God does the Holy Spirit, Satan counterfeits with unholy spirits about what calls demons. So what they say, wherever the,

there is an action of the Holy Spirit, there's always going to be an opposite reaction of unholy spirits, the Bible calls demons. Bro, I did it when I was studying for Acts. If you go through the Book of Acts and you take two highlighters and every single time there's a revival or outpouring of God's spirit, you do one color. And then every time there's a riot

or a Christian gets murdered, you do another color. Literally the entire outline of the Book of Acts is revival, riot, revival, riot, revival, riot. And bro, I don't know if you feel this way, I don't think we talk about this. I literally will tell my team now. Like I knew, I was like, we're going to baptize minimum 700 people this week. I will literally start telling my team.

The next week, I have no idea what it is. The next week, you are going to see some massive opposition, be ready. And I have never been wrong, not because I'm right, because the Bible told me so. You got any thoughts on that? Well, you see it in the scriptures all the time. Last, so we do this thing called saturated in the fall. Bro, let me just say, I'm in my workout room. I listen every year.

It's amazing. It's incredible. Rob Egality, Jenny Allen, J.P. Pekluda, Jason Shepard, and then me on Sunday, we baptized 900 plus people. The following weekend, I started with, wasn't it awesome? Get ready. Yeah. The enemy, here comes the enemy.

And I said, to quote my friend, Josh Howardon, the birth mark of the believer is the Bullseye. Which I got that from somebody else. And so, I mean, look in the Bible, man. Jesus gets baptized. That's a high holy moment. He has not been connected to the father the way he has eternally because he is incarnate in here. And he comes out of the water, the heavens open up,

and God, the father says, behold my son and whom I'm well pleased. You feel good when your dad gives you an animal boy? How about when the heavenly father speaks? Awesome. High moment. The next verse, he's in the desert for 40 days, going nose to nose with something. Satan himself. You look at like the mountain of transfiguration. That's a high holy moment.

I mean, Elijah and Moses and Jesus is displaying his glory, whatever that means. I mean, this is awesome. Then they go walking down the mountain and what's happening. Jesus gets to the points where he says to the disciples, how long am I going to be with you? Because they get into a denominational argument about something. Meanwhile, there's a dad there with a sick kid, they're not doing anything about it. That's a valley. You see it in Paul's life. You see it like, At the Lord's supper, man. Here are the disciples, this high holy moment. He's washing their feet.

He's connecting all the dots for them. And then just a little while later, he's in the place of crushing getting crushed. Yeah, this is the biblical paradigm is Mountain Valley, Mountain Valley. Dude, I don't know about you, but it was really, it was about two years ago. And, dude, I'm not, I refused. I'm not a victim. Correct.

I absolutely refuse to think of myself that way. I'm not saying, I'm not a victim. But it was like our first, like, actionable death threat. And then you had the Charlie Kirk thing the next year and that kind of stuff. Didn't I make you feel a certain way when you got up on stage the next time? Honestly, it did. Honestly, it did. It was the first non-saturated last year when he got killed that day.

And Willie Robertson was kicking it off for us. And me and Willie walked up there like, hmm. Mm-hmm. Honestly, it did something weirdly good in me. I really do thank God for what it produced in me. Because it was the first time my life, I really had to stop and go, if I get, and Lord willing, this never happens to anyone. But it was the first time I thought I could walk out and get shot in the neck.

Yeah, if I got to go. Am I prepared for it? And it was really good for me because there was a day where I was like, yep, I would definitely give my life to do this. And it was really good for me. Yeah, no doubt. Amen. Really good. All right, so here's the, and we'll, depending on how this spot goes,

if either of us feel uncomfortable, this we'll edit it out later. So here's the reality that goes with the opposition and all the stuff. You would be amazed at how comfortable with uncomfortability I am. All right, good. This is going to be great. No problem. This is going to be great. So, dude, I'll be honest.

Okay. One of the things I'm trying to learn at our scale and then with the internet becoming what is becoming is honestly, dude, people can lie about you faster than you can respond. Yeah, I just read on the internet, I'm supposed to mark and avoid you. We're not supposed to be friends.

I think I'm a false teacher for like 11 different things. Well, one of the good things to do when you get on the false teacher list to see who else is on the list and ask, do I want to be, are these my guys? The first time I ever made the false teacher list, Matt Chandler and Matt Carter were on there with it. And I called, I was like, Christian, look at the list I'm on.

And I named, all I did was name to name. She's like, that's awesome, what is it? And I was like, oh, false teachers. So that's what a false teacher is, sign me up. All right. It's like, I'm just going to, I'll just give some examples. Yeah. Don't talk yet.

I'll give the examples and then I'll do my little thing here. So actually, I'll do me first. And then I'm going to do fun ones with you. So like, for instance, like, dude, I'll give so. So here's an example, like, I'm going to ask you, How do you think about this as a pastor? And then, you know, for people who are listening, it's like they're church members.

And by the way, I think we'll both of us figured out is 99.9% of our church, they don't care. They got lives and jobs. We're actually, they have real problems, you know. But it is. So like, well, I don't even know how to do it quick. There's like this stuff that'll float out there like, oh, Josh lied about his house being a gift like that all.

And it's like, I've never said that. What is 100%. Here's an example. Yeah. What's 100% true is we could not have gotten into the house that we're currently in without the help of some generous Christians and church members. Right. And so that's what I'll say.

Then some of the internet, it'll do the telephone game. And they'd be like, oh, Josh's house was a gift. And then 30 people on YouTube would be like, Josh Howardton lied that his house was a gift because we dug up the documents to his, that kind of thing. And there's stuff like that. There was a deal where somebody saw three different numbers that I'd do. This kind of stuff we deal with. Oh, on the feeding thing?

Yeah, so they dug up three different numbers that Josh, he said that the food pantry did a million meals a year. And then he said half a million. And this webpage only says 250,000. And it goes viral. Like that stuff goes viral. And I'm like, well, actually, in 2020 and 2021, the food pantry did 1.2 million meals. That's the number of the guy named John Lovell. That's where it came on the podcast.

You know John? Yeah. Bro, John's awesome. legit. Bro, John is the best. No doubt. So that's the number John using his podcast. And then we have one food pantry at our broadcast campus that that food pantry alone does 300,000 meals.

And then what we also do is we help facilitate and run three other food pantries and collectively the number between all three of those, 750,000. So what somebody, it's like, this is what we deal with. What somebody can do is they can take that stuff. They can make it look like you lied when actually it's all totally true. So what I'm dealing with is people can lie A faster than a pastor can respond. So Joby, I've heard your net worth is at least $35 million. That's what the internet has reliably told me.

Reliably told me. My favorite part about that one is when it came out. Somebody sent that to my wife. And she texted the team that I worked with. And it just said, can somebody tell Pastor Joby to share some of that money? My wife. That's hilarious.

That's funny. She's funny. And then, man, I heard, you were using inhumane brainwashing techniques. Mm-hmm. And bro, so here's a deal that I'm driving at that most people probably don't realize that we have to figure out how to navigate it.

People can lie about you faster you respond. So here's the thing. So even if you take time to explain, so my net worth is not even close. I wish it was 24. I hope it is one day. Lord bless them. So there's this one website

that lists the top 10 richest pastors in the world, and it's got me on there. Wow. Yeah, with my net worth worth of 24 million. It says I was born in 1984. Thank you. That's only 11 years off.

It says I was a graduate of Southern Seminary. I was, I didn't go there. He's got a picture of me and Gretchen, actually at Tim T. Bo's wedding. And under it, it says, here's Pastor Rick Warren and his wife. Okay. Bro, no way. So it says. I'll show you your website.

What? And because somebody posted that one. Can I show it on the podcast later? 100%. Please, please, please. So, well, you guys send me the link so I can show it. That's hilarious. Yeah, and so not a reliable source.

But somebody put it on the Internet, and now other people just go and grab it and blab it. Now, here's what I think happened, is that when we moved into our broadcast location, we started leasing it, and then a few years later, we had a guaranteed purchase price on the whole thing by a godly man that I love so much,

named Tony Slaiman. He helps us playing churches. And so we bought it. The purchase price was $24 million. And I bet if you go into like jacks.gov government things legally, organizationally, I'm listed as the president. And they just associate me with that purchase price. Now here's the thing.

Those people don't know how math works. But even if I explain it, here's what happens to the people spewing it. They're like, okay. And then they just move to the next one and the next one and the next one. It's like trying to grab water. I've never heard the person come back and go, oh, my bad, I had the wrong information. No, I didn't have it. The inhumane brainwashing technique.

I'm reliably informed, Joby. This girl and her girlfriend come walking down the aisle at 1122 a bunch of years ago, and they were like, we love his church, it's a movement for all people to discover in deeper the relationship with Jesus. Will you do our wedding? And I go, how about we do dinner? I didn't just say no. How about we do dinner? That's wise.

I just sit down with the Bible, and the first thing that I said, Shantel was the girl's name, and I was like, first thing I need you to know is, I love you, God loves you, I want you here, he wants you here. The second thing I want you to hear is we live in a world that's going to lie to you and tell you that me and you can't be friends. So don't believe that lie. I love you.

And the world's going to say that I hate you. So you can either believe them or me, but I love you. And we just walked through what the scriptures say about marriage, about sex and about sexuality. And so, long story short, Chantel surrenders her life to Christ and breaks up with her girlfriend. They have to sell the house

and figure out what to do with the dog. Come on, man. Now listen, theologically, it costs us all the same to follow Jesus. It costs her more. That's right. So when she was sharing her testimony, she just shares that.

She's like, yeah, Pastor Jobi said, you can't do that. And then, we said, sent her as a missionary to Uganda for a bunch of years. And so this is a girl... Are you kidding me? No, I'm not kidding. And so...

Testimony. Right. Now, today, what the enemy has done is they call that conversion therapy. We call that discipling someone. I'm just, do whatever you want to do. Yeah. I'm just telling you what the book says. If you don't want to do it.

And particularly, somebody that's coming to me saying, I want to align my life with the scriptures, I don't want my feelings and attractions to be the Lord of my life. I want Jesus to be the Lord of my life. Pastor, can you help me? I can help you. And what I'm going to help you with is the Bible. And so that was the accusation and that's the reality.

So, but here's the problem. It's like, here's what I'm for me, for people who are listening, all this stuff. Like, the deal with, the problem is the internet can lie faster than you can respond. Totally. So then it's like, what do you do? I'm like, what do you think? Well, what do you think? Jesus makes it pretty clear that the motive of the question asker matters a lot.

In the book of Matthew, the scribbers and the Pharisees get together, and they come up with a way, they devise a plan to trick Jesus is what it says. And so they say, all right, we've got this situation about marriage. And the guy dies and she marries another one, no, no, no, no. All right, who's is she in the kingdom, you know? And Jesus is like, well, let me ask you a question. John the Baptist, is he from God or not? And they're like, don't.

Hold on one second. They huddle up and they're like, man, you can't Jesus juke Jesus. He got us. So they come back and they're like, we don't know. He goes, then I'm not answering your question. So, because what's actually, if somebody actually wanted to know the truth, before they post it on the internet, they could just reach out and say, hey, I got some questions. And by the way, any covenant member of 1122 that has any questions about anything can meet with a staff person or an elder any time.

And we are, yeah, we gladly just say, here, man, what do you want to know? What do you need to know? Whatever. Because what's actually happening is people just want you to fight them online because they're trying to gain popularity. Because they typically, they're either selling data, they're selling some kind of. kind of offshoot product that they want more attention towards? Bro, let me just interject here.

This is like, it's my pet peeve and it makes me laugh. So like half of those articles are like, look at this mega church that's all about the money. Please click this link to my monetized website. So Paul talks about it in Titus 310. As for a person who stirs up division

after warning him once and then twice have nothing more to do with him knowing that such a person is warped and sinful and be self-condemned. Or I look at Nehemiah. Nehemiah had a call of God on his life. I have a call of God on my life, which is to lead a movement for all people to discover and deepen a relationship with Jesus Christ.

And Sam Ballet's trying to disrupt this call. And he's calling these meetings and calling these meetings. And he's got ill motives. And Nehemiah says, I'm doing a great work. I cannot come down. Like, what do you want me to not do in order to be a keyboard warrior to just get in the comments

and start fighting with people? So, you know, and again, it would be different if somebody reached out and said, man, I got some questions and the intent was clarity and clarification. That's right. No problem. That's right. Because what's happened in my own life

is I heard something and then I talked to somebody and I go, oh, I didn't know that. That makes a lot of sense. But if you are, if you are just a source, Assuming the worst and trying to play gotcha, you'll always have some angle that you can go after. Bro, and here's like, I'll tell you, like, here's, I don't know what you think about this. Like, here's what I learned. It's like, you think, I got this from Larry Legend, Larry Alsborn.

You think, by responding, you think you're putting water on a fire. Yeah. And it's putting water on a grease fire. So like, this has happened to me before. So here's like what I don't, because what I think happens is people in churches, they're like, why won't you respond? Yeah. We demand to respond. Why would you respond?

First of all, I don't have to show up to every fight I'm invited to. You don't get to put things on my to-do list just because you're mad on the internet. This is not how it works. But the other thing is, bro, here's what happened to it. When I was kid trying to figure it out, the first time this ever happened to me, I was like, you know what? I should respond. And then what I learned is, before I responded, like 1% of my church had been exposed to a lie. Correct.

And then I responded, and 100% of my church went looking for the lie. This is a great line. somebody was sending me mean emails to me about my preaching about whatever I'm not doing right and Pastor Britt grabbed it my executive pastor who I love to death is a good man and he sent back and it said something like of all the responsibilities that God has trusted you with the teaching ministry of 1122 is not one of them now we're not talking about like heresy and heterodoxy just talking about preferences that kind of thing yeah Yeah, and the heretics you have pointed out.

If nobody was listening to them, then there'd be noticing to point it out. Right. And so we have a local church. We have a board of lay elders, and they're actually all old men that I am submitted to. Same. So in regards to whatever, whatever, the purchase of the retreat center, whatever it is in my life, I have authority in my life that I am submitted to. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's just... I actually, any negative things that I get, I just... immediately forward it to the chairman of the board of elders. Yeah, that broad. Here you go. That's brilliant.

You have all the information. Yeah. So I'm not hiding anything. I'm not, if you see truth in this, you let me know. Yeah. Yeah. My favorite is, my last one I got discussed, like, you're an empty suit. I don't even wear suits.

Except on Easter. On Easter only. Except on Easter. All right, let me transition to a hard emotional gear shift. So, like, I think both of us, you know, interesting thing is 1122 reached a lot of dudes. Mm-hmm. You know, it's like both of us kind of grew up. up in an era where the church, actually, a lot of times skewed 70-30 female male.

And, you know, it's like 1122 reaches and disciples, a lot of, a lot of dudes, same with Lake Point, same will live free. So here's, so I'm going to show you, they're going to see it on the screen. Okay. So like, dude, here's what, I get this question a lot, okay? So, like, this right here, oh, that gum it. This right here is a graph that people, I'm going to point it right here. So what is showing is that in the last 10 years or so, you have this actually 20 years. You have this weird thing going on where like men in general are skewing conservative. And then women in general, obviously not all of them, are skewing radically progressive. So you're getting this increasing gender divide thing here. Now I'm talking to a pastor,

trying to pastor, not just men. I'm trying to pastor everybody that walks in my door. So you got that. So that's number one. So first of all, actually, do you have any thoughts on why that's happening. If you don't, we'll just move on to the actual question I was going to ask. Um, I, you know, in regards to the women going liberal, I think that it's a bit of what you talk about, Satan can't create, but he will corrupt, commandeer, you know. And so oftentimes he'll take a good thing that God put in there with, which it's like deep need to care for people. Yes. And then it'll begin to twist it to an unbiblical kind of

messianic complex. Yeah. And that, that happens. I also think it's a reaction to the lack of good, godly male leadership. Jenny Allen was on Deepen, and she was, Kyle Thompson was on there with me, and he asked her a question, and she said, I'm not, I'm not making an excuse, but for one of the things is that in the church, men have not treated women like co-equals and partners for a long long time. And a bit of it, maybe in an unholy way, they've kind of like fought for their own.

And so now you've got this overreaction. And again, she wasn't blaming anybody, but every man should take responsibility because where men lead in love well, everybody flourishes. That's right, man. That's right. And so before I like, you know, go after the women, then all of us got ready to hold up the mirror to our own self. That's right. And say, what kind of environment have I created? Because God doesn't allow Adam to have a wife until he gets his house in order. He names all the animals and then he gets a wife bro and so the responsibility of the house being in order is us okay so here's the here's the question like this is a very common live free youtube comment okay you got a young single guy yeah who's like hey man especially if they're in like a college town so college town

probably a little more progressive on campus probably a lot less christian on campus they're watching that with this little thing happen i'll keep bro i'll give you one more grad this will blow your mind dude so this was cnn i'm gonna put it up here for them but this is us So this was CNN, and they did this deal where it was Gen Z men and women, and they ranked the things that people counted as success in life what they were most passionate about. And so, bro, it's like young conservative men, the most important thing in life, they ranked it number one. Now, this is CNN.

It's not like Newsmax. It's like CNN. Young conservative men, most important thing in life for them. I want to have kids in a family. And then, dude, it grabbed young, progressive. women, single progressive women, and they ranked it having children literally last, literally last, number 12 out of 12 of most important things in our whole life. So here's the question that, like, I get a lot on like podcast comments is, hey man, I'm a young single guy. I believe the Bible, the Bible love Jesus.

I really want to have a family and a good wife. We talked about this earlier. But he's like, where do I find one? 1122. Boom! We're done here. They're there. That's where they all are. For real, tease it out, like click on it. You're a young single guy, you don't live in Jacksonville.

I have... You live in Jacksonville, that's the answer. You live in Dallas? But even in Jacksonville, dude, at our church, here's the thing. I see all the statistics and the diagrams. But when I look at the actual humans, it's like a dozen to one godly women looking for a godly man in our church. Same. Same. I've got some dear friends of mine.

One of them sitting right there. And we have this conversation at our house. How in the world is there not a line out the door of godly men chasing this girl down, bro? She's the best. Yes. The literal best. Like, I don't understand. So I think these things have killed us.

Yeah. Because the follow-up question ought to be, because your desire is to have a family and have kids. Question two. So what are you doing about it? Brother, shoot your shot, man. Just ask somebody on a date, like a real. real date. Tell them how to do it. You go up to me so, hi, my name is, and you hold up your Bible, I believe this, you hold up your wallet, I'm working on this, can I take you to dinner

at, and I will pick you up at, name of time, and both of those things. Then you take a shower, you put some nicer clothes on, like nothing with a team logo, something with a button, maybe a leave and you drive in your car and you pick her up and you open the door and you go to a place and you tell her get whatever you want and then you pay for it and if you if you enjoyed that then you ask her again and if she enjoyed it she'll say yes and if you ask her and she says no suck it up buttercup that's right just shoot your shot man you just swing for the fences and go for it. So, so if you're listening, it's like, I just want to give, like, let's rapid fire some practical tips. All right. So like, number one, it's the same at Lake Point. I'll see stats like

that. And I'm like, well, maybe it's like that out there. Ain't like that in here. Correct. In my lobby, I'm praying for young single Bible believing women all the time to find good dudes. Now, it's honestly, I am starting to see it get fixed at Lake Point because we're reaching tons of young guys. Yeah, we, so it's starting to do this. We did a whole, I mean, we spent our whole year last year, calling men to stand firm and act like men. And a part of it was quit playing the role of the boy and be the man and stand up acting like a man by getting on your knee

and inviting her to join you in this great adventure. And there's a bunch of people who got engaged. Yeah. So way to go, boys. Amen. Bro. Okay. So here's my, I'm going to give five. Okay. And then if you, while I'm talking,

you can be thinking if you got anything else. All right. So working a young, Bible believing, got to find a good wife. Number one, you attract what you become. It's the thing we say all the time. become the type of person you're looking for is looking for. Like, hey man, if you get a vision for the type of young woman you want to attract, then the next question you need to ask yourself is, would that girl like me?

And if you're all weed, porn, and jobless, she ain't going to like you. She's like, hey, man, you've got to become the type of person that she's going to be into. Any further comments, right? I get it. I get it. The bar of what it means to be the elite alpha male now is so low. So low. That if you could just get out of bed before 10,

not wear pajamas in public, and have some, and love Jesus, and have some kind of direction in your life, bro, you were like a blue chip five star. If you got a job, it's even better. Oh, my gosh. Even better.

Yeah, yeah, so. All right, so that's number one. Number two, I'm not joking, dude. I don't think a lot of you guys that are listening, like, believe us, our churches are, there are hundreds, if, probably actually thousands of years. young, single Bible-believing women who will make unbelievable wives.

Amen. It's like, I like to fish. Y'all know you like fish too. It's like, hey, man, it's like you got a fish in the right pond. If I go to a, you know, if I go to a, you know, a salmon stream, I'm not going to catch a bass. Correct. So find the right pond. Guess what's the right pond?

A Bible-believing church who actually preaches the Bible. Correct. And don't you be shown under my church just trying to like, like it's a dating site. you come and submit and you serve and while you're pursuing Jesus you get your eyes fixed on him running the race that he is marked out for you and every once in a while you look left

and you look right and you see if somebody else is running not just your same race but at the same pace and you ask him on a date. Bingo. I see it man. Bingo. All right. I mean the Bible says he who finds a wife

finds what is good. Finds. Not waits for one to be delivered from heaven. Chandler should say that. He's like, You don't just wait for God to bring you lunch. You go get it. And so we just need boys to just put a little steel in their spine

and just shoot your shot. Go find them. Yeah. All right. Once you get to the body, he already hit the, he got to the third one first. Once you get to the Bible preaching church,

you have to actually be present where the young women are. And what I'm saying is, coming in 15 minutes late to the service and leaving five minutes before it's over is not enough. Correct. Like, you need to actually become a disciple that's actually part of the person. of the church. You need to serve. You need to be in a life group. This is, I'll give a, this is a

pro tip at Lake Point. I'm like, if you wanted to serve somewhere where young godly women are, you want to be in students, kids, young adults, or a greeter. Amen. Anything else? That's a good call. That's it. So, but you got to, you got to, like, you can't just show up and me like, no money, I didn't find any, well, you didn't, you didn't do anything. You didn't do anything. Yeah. And make, make sure you're worth finding. Yep. Number four for me, this is, this is how I got married, blind date. Amen. I'll say this dude, the number of young guys at Lake Point, we do the rooted thing. Disciples shoes. By the way, if you never done rooted, you're crazy. Everyone needs to do it at least once in our life. Ruted at Lake Point, we don't, we're like you.

We don't stick a bunch of 25-year-olds in the same room and be like, disciple each other. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We try to find somebody whose age starts with a five, six, or a seven to lead those disciple groups, discipleship groups for the 20s and the 30s. So, dude, here's what I tell people this is how me and Janet got married. If you're single being led in a group by a godly couple that's married, literally just tell them and literally tell them if you come across a godly woman you think would be good for me, would you please? Amen.

Please put a bug in. That's how me and Janet got married. Anything else? That's a great idea. All right. Yeah, I have about to be a 17-year-old daughter. The idea of arranged marriages makes a lot more sense to me today. Huge fan.

Yep. And then last one, I will say this because I've decided there's two guys I've disciples from a distance that after a long time, I finally was like, hey man, you need to pray and ask Holy Spirit. This is what you should do. And if he do whatever he tells you, and if he tells you something different than me, ignore me and listen to him, if you're in like a super, like an area where honestly geographically, socially, culturally, like honestly it really is. It's legitimately going to be hard to find an even one. You are not wrong to consider moving to an area where you can, like Pastor Joby said, find a good wife.

That is not wrong for you to consider. Agree, disagree, additional comments, you're not going to hurt my feelings. If Gretchen Martin currently lived in Chernobyl, I would quit my job, sell everything, and if I had to live in a tent with that girl, I would do whatever it took. That's right.

So it'll be worth it. It'll be worth it. Amen. And be a man we're following. Listen, Pastor Britt and I talked about this on Deepen. Reagan is 17, so when it gets to the point where some young man is truly courting her for marriage, I'm going to look at three things in his life. I'm going to look at his phone, I'm going to look at his calendar, and I'm going to look at his checking account.

Because if he's a pervert, it'll be on his phone. And my girl ain't married a pervert. and if he cannot manage his own life through his calendar as a single man, there's no way he can lead home. No way. And if he doesn't bring his first and best to the Lord, he's a thief. My daughter ain't married a thief. Bro, that's fire.

So be the kind of man. Because one of the questions, I'll ask these guys. Hold on a second. If you were God, would you let you date one of his daughters right now? I mean, you live at your home there, bro. I mean, I get it. You're killing whatever video game you're playing. That's great.

And I know you're waiting for that next YouTube, you know, trick shot to go viral. Good luck with that. But if you're not on the journey to be able to provide and protect and be prophet, priest, and servant king, then you haven't done your part. And if you'll do those things, they will make it, the girls will become easy to find.

That's right. bro and what's so it's like a lot of times people are doing bible verses and they don't even know they're doing bible verses like literally what pastor joby just said he's literally a bible verse that's if you notice in genesis what you have is god gets it puts adam in the garden to work it and keep it and then genesis i think is it 224 a man shall leave his father i think it's 224 a man shall leave his father a mother and whole faster's wife the two shall become one and then they shall become one flesh so bro here's literally the biblical pattern yep the first thing adam gets is a job and then he leaves, so now he moved out of mom and dad's house, and he was self-supporting, leave.

Then he cleaves, that's the KJV. So then he got married, and then the two become one flesh. That's the, that's the lay with each other part. Yeah. So that's the order. And speaking of order, and it says, leave, cleave, and they were naked and unashamed. But what happens in our cultures, people get naked, then they get married, and they wonder why they bring all this shame into their marriage.

You carried some demons up into your bedroom. And so listen, if that's you, because at Lake Point in 11, 22, it happens a lot, right? Couples, they're dating in college or whatever, and they're sleeping together, and then they end up at our church, married, and come to know Jesus, and they're wonder why their sex life was amazing when they were dating, and now it's stale, because you carry some demons up into your marriage. So husbands, this is your responsibility. You take your wife by a hand.

You go get on your knees. First of all, you repent because the Bible says love is patient. And you say, I am so sorry, I didn't love you because I was impatient. I took something that wasn't mine. Will you forgive me? And then you go before the Lord. And the good news is that he is faithful and just to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. And you need to cast that demonic shadow out of your marriage

because there is freedom and wholeness and joy that God wants you to experience in that area of your life. Right, man. Yeah, that's a big deal. Dude. So this is not in my knowledge. so I just want to ask you. So, like, you see the same thing at 1122. Like, who we're really reaching right now

is like that guy that's like 24 to 3rd, you know, actually up to my age, 40-ish. And it's that guy that's like, man, you know, he's excited when hunting season starts and he likes NASCAR and football, you know, and he likes it when I use a bass fishing illustration. and he was kind of that guy that until he got to Lake Point,

you know, he called himself a Christian because when he took the census in high school, he's like, well, I'm not an atheist and I'm not a Muslim, I guess I'm a Christian. And then he comes to Lake Point

and he actually meets Jesus. I love watching it, dude. He just wrecks their lives. But then somewhere along the way, he got married, he did it wrong. So he gets into, so here's a,

I'm going to throw a question at you, I get a lot of Lake Point. He did it wrong. So he gets into his marriage. He led back. Badly going into the marriage. So honestly, because he led badly, she didn't respond goodly. And that's not her fault.

That was his fault for leading badly. Yeah. So then he's like, man, now I'm trying to lead my family. But dude, I set it all up wrong. Like, honestly, I'm trying to leave. Why would she trust me? How do I even do? So like, what would you say to the guy that's like, man, I want to lead my family and be the godly leader of my family?

That's good. But I was such a jacked up guy on the way in. She very understandably is like, I don't. don't all know about you having the steering wheel. So I think, I know what you mean when you use the word lead, but I think when your average guy's been going to church for a few years, hears us say lead. He's not thinking what we mean when we say lead.

This is good. This is good right here. Because Ephesians 5, right after it says, wives submit to your own husbands, and again, there's a lot there. I know the word submit is not popular, but neither is staying married. So you know, women don't submit to men. very important. You're right.

Well, I submit to your own husband as unto the Lord. That verse comes right after the verse says, submit to one another out of reference for Christ. Then it gets to the men. And it doesn't say, so husbands, lead your wives. It says, love your wives,

does Christ love the church. So when Josh says, lead, what he means is like John 13, every single day you get up, dress yourself as a servant and wash your disciples' feet. That's what you mean by lead. It's not like I'm the boss and I'm the man,

you know. A great way to, you know, 1 Corinthians 13, I mean 16, 13, 13 to 14, the passage don't act like men. We love it. The men love it. Watch out. Stand firm.

That means fight. Act like men. Be strong. But you better keep reading. That's right, bro. Verse 14 says, let everything you do be done in love. So if you want to know what that means,

go to First Grandt, 13. And what's good about this is Paul didn't tell a story. He's not like, love is like a butterfly. No. It just is. Then it's going to say a word. love is patient, love is kind, love is not arrogant, love is not rude, love is not self-seeking, love keeps no record of wrong. This is what we're supposed to do.

Then in that context, this hit me when I was writing the book. I never noticed this before. In that context, Paul says, when I was a child, I acted like a child, but when I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. So you're impatient, rude, self-seeking, beating your chest, demanding your own way. Childish. You think you're being tough? Paul says you're being a toddler. That's...

That'll preach. So, serve your wife, love your wife. The places that you need to start leading, be the lead repenter, be the lead apologizer. That's it. Just own it all. I'm so sorry. You're right. And then just serve her and love her.

And then, quite honestly, what ought to happen is, this is true of either spouse. The more you know and love Jesus, the more your spouse should benefit. And now you're not into a theological argument. She's just like, yeah, whatever that thing has happened to you at church and that group you go to, my whole life is better.

Keep doing that. Maybe I'll come with you. That's right. That's First Peter three. Yeah, no doubt. That's First Peter three. Yeah. Dude, I'll add,

so first of all, I think what a lot of guys don't understand, if you're in that situation, what you either purpose for it, or inadvertently did is honestly you shattered your wife's trust. That's what you accidentally. So that's what you're up against. You're not up against.

Not necessarily, some of you are, but you're not necessarily up against, she won't submit. What you're up against is you broke her trust. And man, what I always tell guys is, man, if you break your wife's trust in marriage, she's got a job and you got a job. Her job is to tell you what targets you need to hit

to regain the trust, and your job is to hit the targets. So you need to, at some point, you need to end humility, do exactly what Jobi just said. You go and with probably some sweat in your eyes, you realize what you did and you apologize. And then you say, I'm so sorry. You ask her if there's any area in which, man, have I lost your trust? You ask her. And then what you do is you ask her the question, tell me exactly what I need to do to regain your trust. You listen to the words that come out of the

mouth. And you remember exactly what she said. And then your job. is to hit those targets. Amen. So I'll just like, you know, this is a little, you get what you pay for and this is free. So lower your expectations. But at that point, he's got a job and she's got a job. Your job is to hit her targets.

Her job is to let you hit the targets and slowly give you back the trust that you lost. But you got to do your job and you can't micromanage her job. And to the ladies that are listening, we're not nearly as complex as you think we are. Men are like puppies. They repeat what is rewarded.

So when he gets it right, if you can respond, Hercules, I'm just telling you, he'd be like, okay, that was good. That's how you taught your puppy to not pee on your carpet. You gave me a treat. We needed it outside, right? So, yeah, man, all very true. One other thing I would say,

because you mentioned a guy going, she won't submit. That verse starts with wives. If you're quoting it, it's over, bro. Yeah. It's over. You should go ahead and skip down to the husband one

and just do everything it says and trust the Lord with the verses that he wrote for her. There you go. Yeah. All right, let's close this out with some rapid fire. Let's go. All right, we're going to rapid fire close this out. Here's what we're going to do.

We're going to wrap, both of us are in churches, you know, 30, $35,000. We're going to rapid fire objections to mega churches. Yeah, who? Don't you hate those? What? Yeah. Boo. All right, so here's something to do.

I'm actually, we're going to show it up here. So this went viral. Like, you probably don't know this because you're not, you're not playing around on Instagram. You're actually doing things. All right, this went viral last week. All right, so we're going to show it up here. So here it was a little carousel post, went crazy viral.

So here's what it says. I'm just going to read it and you can respond. That man is probably not your pastor. If he doesn't know your name, Martin, if he doesn't know your name, not your pastor. If you can't even shake his hand, not your pastor.

If it doesn't walk with you, talk with you, pray for you, or know the least bit about you. Not your pastor. We could keep going. But Joe B. Let me just ask you. So in the Greek, pastor and shepherd are the same word, right?

Correct. And Jesus says he is the good shepherd. Yes. And David says in Psalm 23, the Lord is my shepherd. Yes. So have you ever shaken Jesus's hand? Whoopsie daisy.

bro. I saw one says, you ever seen him on eye level? Uh-huh. All right. So they're just, they're conflating things is what they're conflating there.

Uh-huh. So how many names do you think you could remember? Minus your, you know, leave out your family. I don't know, $500,000? I don't know.

You think you get to $500? Like, if, I think there's probably 500 people on planet Earth whose names I know. Okay. But that's, but hey, listen, that's on a good day

and that's across my whole life. Well, you got to unlearn whatever, you know. So what this person is saying is once you get over that number, that's not, you can't, you can't be the pastor of those people anymore. I mean, it's just there's not, okay, just show me the text. Yeah. Just show me the text. Bro, that's my thing.

Like what, what, it's, like, it's easy for somebody to criticize up. Can you imagine if we were just criticizing small churches? Yeah. You know why you don't hear that? Because I'm not critical of small churches. That's right. Praise God for small churches. It should be faithful, man.

Amen. Amen. So that guy can feel that way, and if he doesn't like it, he can shoot me an email at Jimmy Craig's Corny. Now, I will say that I, although I don't personally shepherd all the people. Yeah, this is important. But all the people need to be shepherded. Amen. So we have about 70 pastors right now and 420 staff members and an army.

We have, I want to say it's 2,400 people that went through a six-week training. to be on the care team. We love, we care. We accomplish the roles of the shepherd. We're not caught up in the title of who gets the badge. Yes, right. And so the sheep need to be loved and cared for it in those things. Yeah.

Sounds like this guy has to have a title. Yeah, so I think that's really important. Hey, man, does every single pastor need to know every single person's name? Hey, that's dumb. Because we literally, unless the Apostle Peter memorized 5,000. names in the first four chapters of the book of Acts. We literally got a Bible verse that says the opposite of this. Correct.

But so does every single pastor need to know every single person's name? No. But at Lake Point, you can be known by a pastor. Amen. Absolutely. Yes. I think part of the myth is, if you've got a big church and then people like, they'll be like, well, it's all

about you. Yeah. Well, actually, I have diversified responsibility maybe more than any, like it doesn't have to all go through me. I am not the single point of contact on things. I'm actually the reason I do that is because we're like one body with many parts, and I might be okay at the talking part, and I'm not as good at this other part. So we've got some other people that could serve you better in that area, and maybe I can serve you better

in the teaching of the Bible kind of area. Yeah. All right. So it's not about me. Yep, but, but Joby. Yes. Your church is too big. You should have just be planting churches. We are. Okay. Talk about it. Well, please don't fall into the tyranny of the ore. That's it, bro. God always works in the genius of the an. Because guess who all the church plants come to? The big churches, but will you fund us?

It's just true. We have planted and partnered to plant. By the end of 28, we will have planted 1,000 churches around the world. There are more people that attend the churches that we have planted today than how many. people attend 1122. My gosh. So it's not either or. Who said either or? That's right. We plant staff people. We plant, we partner with people all over the world, Africa and Brazil and Scotland, all over the place. So yeah, we do that. Yeah, it's the same at Lake Point. This is, well, I'll get this every now and then. Most people are smart enough to realize that's a dumb question, you know,

but every now and I'll get this. There are no dumb questions. There are lots of dumb people. But it's like, you know, at Lake Point, we started a Strategic Launch Network. Yeah. It's like we have literally personally funded, coached, and planted. It'll be over 100 churches in the hardest-to-reach urban centers in North America by the end of this year. I think what, honestly, what people who don't do what we do don't understand is,

hey, man, just because we plan a church doesn't mean that, A, everybody from our church is voluntarily going to choose to go do that. Right. And B, hey, newsflash, when we plan a church, thousands of people don't magically stop trying to come to my church. Yeah. Well, what actually happens is they get a whiff of the Great Commission, and they're like, I want to be a part of a church that is a conduit of the grace of God,

not a cul-de-sac of it. And so, and it's Jesus' great commission. And I'm just telling you, when you are about his mission, he will fully fuel and fund his mission. And so he just keeps bringing more people And more people and more people That's right. And we keep sending more people

And more people and more people That's y'all the best at it. But Joby, all the mega churches, They're just a mile wide and an inch deep, Joby. You don't disciple anybody. Man, I would love to introduce you to our thousand or so disciple group leaders and let you tell them that to their face.

Before you finish talking, let me brag on it. I'm wearing the bill for more hat right now. Oh, yeah. So like we recorded a bill. By the way, the conversation we had on that pod is one of the best conversations I've ever had on any podcast. We went some places I've never gone before. If you're listening to this,

when they release that episode of Bill For More with me, you and Denny, you're crazy if you don't listen to that thing. And before we start, because you listen to Bill For More all the time, just like I listen to Livery all the time, I told you when you meet Denny, what you're going to see

is just a product of the disciples. discipleship processes of 1122. Bro. And he's a guy that's just like a drink of beer, watch a game guy, lost guy before. Stumbles into 1122. And now, dude, here's, I'm seriously, I was sitting there stunned at what a great disciple that guy is. Amen. And guess what that happened?

I'll make a church. Amen. A megachshund. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anybody that ever says that, I just know they've never actually attended or watched. Yeah. My sermon. I mean, we just are going verse by verse through Matthew.

Yeah. What else do you want me to do? And honestly, I don't care what you want me to do. I'm not doing what you want me to do. Because I'm not trying to live my life for the approval of man, but for the approval of Christ. Because if I was trying to do what you want me to do, then I cannot be a servant of Christ.

Relations 110. Thank you. Yeah. Well, but Joby, all the mega churches, they're just big personality cults, Joby. It's all they are. It's a big personality cults. Man, like I said,

we know them all. And are there some bad actors and some guys that had been terrible stewards of platforms that God has given them? And sadly, the list is long. Yes. Well, you don't know is the list is also long of churches that you've never heard of

because they just don't make the news. And like you've said a million times before, planes that land safely, they don't make the news. Right. I mean, I don't know what to tell you, dude. I am the person God created me to be. and I wrestled through the parable of the talents all the time. And I don't know if I'm a two-talent guy or a five-talent guy,

but I refuse to be a one-talent guy. Amen. And the whole point of that, shout out Dr. Piper, is don't waste your one and only life. I got one and only life. What do you want me to do? Preach less or tone it down or cap it, the number of people that want to hear the gospel?

Like, say it out loud. Give me the alternative. I'd be happy to hear it. So I'm curious when somebody says, hey, man, it's getting too big. What do you say? Who do you want me to un-invite? Because I got a list, and right now you're on the top of it. That's that thing.

So look through the Gospels. This would be a good, like, magic marker study of the Gospels. Look at every time the disciples turned inward on themselves, they get in trouble. They do. They're like, kids, get out here. Get out of here. He's too busy for you. He's like, you fool?

Unless you change, become like them. you'll never enter the kingdom of God. Hey, can my two sons sit at your right and left? He's like, you don't even know what you're asking for. Okay? It never goes good when they're trying to cap the room. Look at the times where they turn outward. They get a high-fi from Jesus, feeding of the 5,000.

Okay? So what kind of disciple do you want to be? Because, you know, our vision statement at 1122 is we're a movement for all people to discover and deepen our relationship with Jesus. my experience and my understanding of the scriptures is the number one catalyst to help you deep in your walk with Jesus is to help other people discover theirs. Bro.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if it's all just about me and mind, you have lost the plot. That's right, man. Yeah. Dude, whenever somebody says that, so number one, it's the same thing. Like, what do you want me to do? What are you asking me to do? Are you asking me to tell, like, all these lost people?

Like, hey, y'all go home. It's too big now, you know? But the other thing is, I'm like, nobody ever drives past a hospital and is like, you know, man, that hospital is just getting too big. They're just healing too many sick people. Yeah, right. What are you wanting here?

What would be better if somebody could just say, hey, God bless that ministry. And my own preference, based on my own experience, is that's not the kind of church I'm looking to be connected in. This is the kind of church I'm looking to, yeah. Nothing wrong with that. Praise God for it. Nothing wrong with that at all.

I know. Yes. Yeah. The other one, of this like, well, I'm riffing on it, is you probably get the same thing. And I might be a little, I might be a little overaggressive, and so don't put this on Jobie. But sometimes people on the, like, I'll celebrate. Like after baptizing 182 people, I'm like, absolutely, I'm sharing that. I want every person in the church to know the grace, the grace that we have to live in the window

of harvest that we get to see that, by the way, parents, grandparents and great-grandparents in that region prayed for for decades and we're reaping their harvest. Yeah, I want everybody know about that. But like what people do after that is it'll be like, man, you're just all about the numbers. You're all about the numbers. And number one, I'm like, well, like, there's literally a book of the Bible called numbers. So that let's start there. Yeah. How many got baptized on Pentecost? Three thousand. How do you know that? Because they wrote the number down. X chapter five, or by X chapter five, there's five thousand. Correct. Yeah. Yeah. And we tell, we try to also tell as many individual stories as we can.

We celebrate every single one of these baptisms, man. There's a story. There's a life there. There's actually a book with these names written in it. That's what we're celebrating. Amen. That's what we're celebrating. That's what we're celebrating.

That's right. Lams Book of Life. That's it. That's it. And by the way, you said this earlier, I think it's really important. Is it like nobody's moralizing a church size? Because what you do, I have seen it. I have seen guys who pastor churches more like our.

and they actually do sometimes talk like small churches are bad and evil, and the only reason they're small is because they're bad and evil. Now, if nobody's gotten saved, it's a problem. The gathering of 125 disciples, and you all haven't made one? That's a problem. But, I mean, that's the thing, man. You're outside of it. Here's the thing.

I shared it on Bill for more. I'll just go real quick. My Gretchen's grandfather, Lloyd White, pastor to church called Longstar. It might have 125 people in it. But you know who one of the disciples they made is. Her name was Gretchen Nicely. I met her in 2000. It became Gretchen Martin.

And in 2003, when I was about to leave the ministry, that disciple of a lone star talked me in to give it one more chance. Also, when Pastor Jerry said, you should plant a church, I was getting calls from a bunch of big, very well-established churches to just come be on the teaching team. I went back to her again. I was like, it would be way safer. And she was like, don't, I feel like God called us to make disciples in Jacksonville.

And I was like, I just need you to know what you're risking. If this doesn't go good, I don't know what we're doing. And she quotes to me, Ruth, she just said, baby, I'm with you, your God's my God, your people, my people, where you die, I'll die. Wow. Yeah. And so she put courage in me, and then 1122 is doing what it's doing.

We've had over 5,000 people proclaim that Jesus is the Lord for the first time this year, and we baptize over 5,000 people. Okay, so all of the fruit of 1122, hangs on the tree of a lone star church in Clifton Forge, Virginia. And when Lloyd White got to heaven and when I get to heaven, God's going to say, well done, boys. Amen. Well done.

Amen. Our mutual mentor, Bishop Steve Strupe, he's got this fire lion. He says, hey, man, big isn't bad, and small's not bad. Bad is bad. He's so clear. He said, bad is bad. There's big, good churches. and big bad churches.

And there's small good churches and small bad churches. Why? Big's not bad. Small's not bad. Bad is bad. Here's the thing I don't like about the word mega church. One, it's a comparative term, and I don't think we should be comparing churches to one another. Amen.

Like, would you compare your kids? You know what I mean? That's my mega kid. This is my mini kid. Like, no, man. It's just God designed that kid that way and that kid that way. So, I mean, let's talk numbers.

in Jacksonville, let's see, on a good weekend right now, 35,000 people in the rooms. That didn't count online and all that kind of stuff. Okay, 30,000 people. Jacksonville has, greater Jacksonville, has about two million people in it. Two million people. Bro.

And then we just looked at the 2020 census, and the most charitable look at it is about 25% of just. Jacksonville checks the box Christian. So let's just give it to them and say every single one of them have actually repented of their sin and surrendered to Christ. They're the most charitable, about 25%. Yeah.

So we only have 30,000 at 1122. We're not a make, our city is mega lost. Bro. That's the mega. And again, it's not up to just 1122. Let me name some churches. Man, you want to hear the gospel? Go to Celebration Church with Pastor Tim.

Go to Chet's Creek. They just got a brand new pastor. Go to Beach Church because Pastor Jerry's still preaching there. You know, I mean, bro, there's churches all over the place. And we're not in competition. We have an enemy. He's the devil of hell that was a steal, kill, and destroy. So, again, I don't, I mean, the mega thing.

What do you talk about mega? Bro. Compared to what? Compared to the lost people. We're mini church. We're Bailey. I mean, it ain't Ephesus. That's right.

They're not shutting down sinful industries because of the influence of the believers in town. That's right. You know? That's right. Everybody's still drunk at the Jazz Games. That's right.

Like, we got a lot of work to do. So. Dude, I'll say that, I'll say that to the leg point a lot is, hey, man, the only reason anybody anybody ever thinks we're a big church is because they compare us other churches. We don't compare ourselves other churches.

We compare ourselves to the size of the mission God has given us. to reach all people. So we're not a big church. We are a really small church with a really big vision. There's 2.5 billion people in the planet right now

that don't even know the name of Jesus. That's right. I'm not just talking about the lost people that are still parked into driveway on Sunday morning in Jacksonville and in Dallas. That's right. They at least have access to the gospel.

There's 2.5 billion with a B people that have no access to the gospel. It's about mega church. That's pitiful. All right, let me finish. with two things. Two final objections here. This one's fun because, like,

the weird thing about our lives is we know these guys. Yeah. So this is one, Joby, all these megachurch pastors. Mm-hmm. They're just greedy,

abusive hypocrites behind the scenes. All of them. Yeah. You've never met one of them. Or if you met one, it was like one of the rare bad appellee. Can you go find some bad ones?

Man, there's no doubt or there's no doubt about it. And, man, it puts a blight on the name of the bride. And I fear for that man when he stands before the Lord. I fear for that man. Yeah. Here's the thing, too, that people just don't know. I mean, did you set out for this?

Dude, I was, you know, we talked about it. I started pastoring a, I grew my dad's church plan at first from 120 to about 76. Let's go. That was the first year or so. And honestly, man, I remember having a moment where I was like, Lord, if I am here to faithfully pastor the 76 to reach as many as 76 can,

I'm in. Yeah. No, I didn't. In my wildest dreams. I remember when we hired Pastor Britt, we were running about 4,000 people. And we're talking about all kinds of stuff, multi-sight and all that, which I, dude,

if you cut me, I believe evangelism. I mean, I just want to see people come to Christ. On the side note, on Apest, Apostles, prophets, evangelist, teachers, Ephesians, primarily evangelist? Which one? Is that your strongest foot there? Apostles, prophets, evangelist, shepherd, teacher? Yeah, I'm strongest evangelist with some serious apostle. Definitely. I agree. Which, in regards to that, people will always put up with the sin of the teacher and the shepherd,

and they'll crucify the sin of the prophet and the evangelist and the apostle. bro that's a bar because the shepherd and the teacher they sin gently you could completely cut the great commission out of your Bible and keep the people in front of you comfortable and nobody's going to complain just do a good wedding and funeral keep the shorman shorter enough so you can get to lunch on time no problem now Jesus is going to remove his lamb stand because that's not a church But you'll be fine. You'd be fine.

It's that thing that you say, the unwritten rule. Unspoken rule of the world has with pastors. You take it easy on us. We'll take it easy on you. And the second a pastor breaks that rule, all hell will break loose on your life. But that's the moment that all of heaven starts to break loose in your church. Amen.

Yeah, man. This wasn't my idea to begin with. Yeah. Coach Lee made me do it. The pastor Jerry made me do it. And ultimately, the Lord commanded me to do it. And then I would have been totally fine being the youth pastor at Beach Church for the rest of my life. I was living the dream, just making disciples of the Lord put it right in front of me.

And then he spoke to me through a number of people and through his word. And so we started 1122. So when I brought Britt in, Pastor Britt, I think we were about 4,000. And I pulled him aside and I was like, okay, I think we're going to continue to grow because new people are the best evangelist. Nobody's told them you're not supposed to talk about Jesus at work yet. So they're going to tell everybody, and I think God's on the move here in that way. But listen, if the rest of our lives, we get to care for and disciple 4,000 people. What a life well lives.

Or if that number is 100 or 150, whatever, it doesn't matter because it's not a number. It is actually a family. You see, the church is not like an event you attend or an organization that you're a part of. It's a family you belong to. That's right. And Jesus is like, there's still some more. lost kids out there that belong to me. That's right.

And I'm asking you to let me partner with you to go get them. Get them. Go get them. And then not convert them, disciple them. That's right. Because the moment you get rescued, you become a part of the rescue team.

Amen. Dude, you know, I say one thing here, and then I want to finish on our last question here. The hardest thing when somebody says stuff like that or people imply stuff like that is like the weird thing about our lives is we know all those guys. I know.

And we know. And we know what they're like behind the scenes. And it's like, bro, their stories were not even allowed to tell about sacrifices their families have made. And generosity. Oh, bro. The generosity story. I'm going to give a couple examples without.

Actually, I'm going to use a couple names that I know I'm allowed to and I'll give some examples that I'm not allowed. So I'm going to do Philip Anthony Mitchell. So, dude, that guy, it's the dumbest thing. I see some of things people say about the guy online. I'm like, you idiot. Like, literally, I have a righteous anger. Like, what an idiot.

Yeah, they don't know it. Like, dude, this is a, that's the most, honestly, he's probably the most well-known pastor in America right now. Correct. He comes, hangs out on the Live Free episode. That, dude, I'll get, my sweat thinking about it because he just, he felt like a big brother in the faith to me. And he prayed for, like,

that guy has texted me almost every day since just to tell me that he prayed for me and what he prayed for me. So I'm going to text him and ask him, him if I need to edit this out, I will. I'm going to give an example. I'll wake up and that guy texting me in the middle of the night,

which means he was up praying for me in the middle of the night. I'm just a young pastor that he want to pray for. Josh, this morning, I saw your face in my time of prayer. I saw the tears in your eyes when we sat across from each other

and I was deeply moved by the spirit to earnestly intercede for you. I pray for you. I pray that you would continue to be bold, a bold voice for truth, no matter the cost. I pray that you would see your highest reward is the crown you lay down at the feet of Jesus. I pray that you would see the

fleeting nature of this life and all that will be dissolved, including the words of the da-da-da-da-da. I pray that God would continue to burn your heart with a holy fire to warn, to proclaim, to awaken and to stand for Christ and this perverted and crooked generation as time is running out. Bro, he just took time just to encourage a young, younger pastor. And bro, here's what can bother me. nobody tells that story. That doesn't go viral. So when I listened to you and him, I was up here, had phones in, filling up feeders with corn, doing chores.

It's been an intense season of attack. And I sent you when I sent you, and both you and him. And kind of a Spurgeon-esque, not like thumbs-up emoji, She, praise hands, praise hands, fire, fire. Not that. Like some sentences that take a minute to write. One of the neatest things about getting to sit in the seat that I get to sit in is a bunch of my heroes have become my friends.

And I'm telling you, man, Matt Chandler. It's a better dude than he's a preacher. He might be the greatest preacher of our generation. He's a better man, you know? the other thing can you ever remember like when we all get together nobody's be like

so what you're running that's not literally nobody we don't talk about that literally nobody how's your daughter that's the kind of question that's it dude that's it what's God I've been teaching you stuff like that so so it's like you got the

stuff like Philip you know and here's names and no names it's like one of the pastors of the largest churches, churches that has ever existed. He's a guy that I know. He and his wife have every year worked up so that they, first of all, well, I won't say that, they tithe 60% of their income. Nobody's ever going to know that.

One of the pastors of the largest churches that's ever existed in America. He got to the spot where he wrote a bestseller, like one of the bestselling books in all of human history, paid the church back every dollar they'd ever salaried him, and then decided to reverse tithe. I know another guy. who his family just decided early on that they wanted to fund,

personally fund, 100 adoptions in their life. By the way, that ain't cheap. Let me tell you that. I've done that a couple times. And they set aside a massive part of their income. I know, I'll just shout him out, man. This guy named Larry Stockstall is a legendary charismatic pastor,

huge church down Louisiana. And this number of stories I'll hear about, you know what happens if you walk into the auditorium at 5 a.m. on a Sunday, there's Pastor Larry, and he spends three hours in prayer before he preaches. We got a guy on our team, Mike Bro, total legend.

Complete legend. Pastor Southerland in Lexington. Then he was over at Willow for a minute. That's a different podcast. And you know how that got us? Mike Bro literally could have pastor any church in America that he wanted to back then. You know what he did?

He moved out to California to plant a church, help his daughter plant a church where there wasn't one. He spends his free time now. mowing the lawns for widows in his neighborhood. And every Thursday morning, there's about 15 addicts that have no idea who Mike Bro was. He was like one of the most famous pastors in America. And he leads a little Bible study at Starbucks

for recovering addicts. And listen, here's what I say, is that none of those stories ever go viral. That's who those guys are. And I'll say this. And almost every small church pastor in a little country town where he's got 280,

or he's got, got just 50 or 80 people showing up, he's doing that stuff too. No doubt. And so it all goes back to that sentence. Why don't I ever hear about those guys? Planes that land safely don't make the news. And listen, man, if you don't like me because of me, that's on me. This is who I am.

I'm not going to change. But if you don't like me because of the position God has put me in, that's on you. Yeah, that's right. Like, what does that have to do with me? So, let me give an example of this is my last question. So, you know, Joby, I'll just, let me phrase it like this. You know, I've made a church there just all about the money. Joby, if you just saw all about the money,

I know this because I know how it works. You are spending and receiving not a single dime, enormous amounts of money, time, energy, resources so that you can be disciplining, people in correctional facilities, that's politically correct term for prisons all over the country. You receive, you spend an enormous amount and receive not a dime. Why? Hmm. We have received a little bit of money. One time a guy made a commitment of $2.25. Think about that. I don't know how hard it is to make $2.25 in the prison, but he did it.

He's like paying us with his canteen money. So that's about what it is. I think that's the income so far. Here's the thing, because we're a movement for all people to discover in deep in relationship with Jesus. And there's no asterisk. And all means all. And every one of those men and women is somebody's one more.

There's somebody husband, somebody's wife, somebody's dad, mom. And so we moved in, man. We decided to start a campus at Baker Correctional Facility. Part of the reason why is the guys at Baker have less than five years on their sentence, and they're all coming back to Duval County where Jacksonville is. That's awesome.

And so our state senators are like, if you want to change our city, if you can get a hold of these guys before they get home, make them better men. And then all we do is we just do church. Have a campus pastor, have a worship team, comes in. It's just like all the other campuses. I'm on the screen. Once a year I preach live from the prisons.

Bro, I watch it every year. I love it so much. It's our most watched. So much. So we go to Baker and we're doing saturated. We do saturated in Baker. and me and my friend Jeff Cop going there to baptize guys at the end of saturated.

There's about 250 men out of 1,000 in the population that attend that campus. And we baptized 67 men that day. There had never been water in that baptistry the whole time any employee had ever been there. Bro. One of the second, third guys, we baptized was the leader of the black gang.

Now, I wasn't super familiar with, like, gang culture in prisons. You know, I mean, I've seen some movies, but I don't know anything. And apparently, regardless of what your actual gang is outside, when you get inside, you kind of just click up by race. And so the leader of the black gang goes, he's like second or third. We get to 66 baptisms, and I do the same thing Coach Lee did.

I think there might be one more. And this skinhead white dude with the cuss word, the whole word, F you on his forehead right there. You don't talk about intimidating while you're preaching. He's got a swastik on his head behind, this ear it says if it ain't white it ain't right whoa he gets up bawling and you don't cry in prison i've learned that too he gets in the water i ask him if he's ready to renounce the sins of his past the ways of this world anything darker demonic he's ever been connected to and pledges lead us to

christ and christ alone he said yes sir i said who is jesus he said my lord and savior and i dunk him and he comes out and dude he's yoked i mean he could have killed me right there he comes out hands up So soaking went out of the tub. He steps out of the tub, and the guy from the black gang stands up, and they start walking towards each other. All the security is getting weird, and they hug. They freaking bro hug in front of 225 men. The guy that leads to the black gang looks at the group, and he just goes, it ends today.

So all he said, it, I'm like, what ends? You end to me? Like, what are we ending? He just said, it ends today. I may be off with a position or two here, but Baker was something like the second most violent prison in Florida. 18 months later, it was second from the bottom. The governor's office, which we have a wonderful governor here in Florida,

if you're for things like life and liberty and, you know, the Constitution, things like that. His office calls me and says, what are you doing in prison? I was like, we're just doing church. He's like, what about recidivism? I go, that's your problem. That's not my problem. We just do church.

It's like, what do you mean? I was like, we show up every week, same group. We just teach the Bible, help people get in disciple groups, taking that self as obedience. He says, you can have every prison in Florida. DeSantis. We have everyone in Florida. Well, he's like a disciple, disciple, right?

Yeah, yeah. All right, you keep going. And he's also, I mean, he is an incredible legislator. Like, he wants to get stuff done. I think he might be the best one. Yeah. So, we're like, okay, cool, let's do more campuses. So then we start two more campuses, so we have three.

And then we start one for a women's prison. And then the guy that was the assistant warden at Baker, the original, Warden Kish, he didn't even want to go, but he just drew the short straw. And we held services during his shift, and he was the manager on duty, so he had to sit in it. Well, the gospel got all over him. He gets saved in prison as the ward assistant warden. He gets credit for the turnaround in the lack of violence. He gets promoted to Marion Correctional Facility.

And then he calls me one Thursday. He's like, hey, Pastor. I'm like, what's up, Kish? What are you doing? And he said, well, I just wanted to introduce you to the newest campus pastor of your newest campus here at Marion Correctional Facility. I'm like, say more. He goes, I'm the ward and I do what I want.

So we stream live your 722 Thursday night service. So that pops off. So they around a couple hundred men there. About six months later, he calls me and he says, will you do baptisms here at the prison? I'm like, yes, sir, of course. So I hop on my bike. I head down to Marion Correctional.

We baptized, I don't, I mean, a ton of people. I can't remember, 75 or something. Oh, man. You know who number one in the tub was? Warden Kish. Bro. What? In front of all of the inmates.

What? Warden Kish. gets in the tub, renounces the sin of his past, the ways of his world, anything darker demonic he's ever been connected to, proclaims Jesus Christ is His Lord and Savior, and he gets out, okay. After this, he starts calling all of his warden friends that he's known his entire life. And now we have 27 prison outposts around the state of Florida

that do 1122 every weekend. Come on, man. because every one of those men are a trophy of the grace of Jesus Christ. Amen. And I don't care if you have oceanfront property in Pontivir Beach or you're in cell block D in Marion Correctional. If you put your faith in Jesus, he'll change everything about everything about everything. And he told me to tell you about it.

And that's why I do what we do. That's like the Book of Acts. that's a good place to finish. Pastor Jobby Martin, would you pray for the people listening real quick? I'd be happy to. Josh Halton, I'm proud of you, bro. God has a real unique anointing on your life,

and thank you for handling it in such an honorable, biblical way. So you may have critics here on earth, but there is a great cloud of witnesses in heaven cheering you, you, bro. Don't stop. Thank you, my friend. Let's pray. Thank you.

Our good and gracious Heavenly Father, God, we love you more than anything because you first loved us. Lord, we just kind of sit here amazed that you would use a couple of nobodies from nowhere. At just the right time, you would rescue us and redeem us, and then by your grace, put us on the rescue team. God, may we never get over the gospel. I pray it in Jesus' name. Amen. Thank you, John. I love your, buddy.

Well, hey, thanks so much for listening. Lake Point Church is a movement for all people to know Christ, live free, and change the world for God's glory. If you're already a member of a local church, we want you giving there. But if you'd like to make a donation to help this message go further faster, it genuinely helps us boost getting out to more people. If you'd like to make a donation, you can text the word give to the number 20411, and then just choose Church Online from that drop-down menu. To find out more about LakePoint, you can visit lakepoint.