Live Free with Josh Howerton - The Bible NEVER Mentions Homosexuality!?... Is that True? | Live Free with Josh Howerton

Episode Date: June 8, 2026

Can Christians stand for truth without becoming angry, harsh, or compromising? In a culture where conversations about identity, sexuality, personal freedom, and truth dominate headlines and social media feeds, many believers find themselves pulled between two extremes: conviction without compassion or compassion without conviction. In this episode, Carlos Erazo and Paul Cunningham tackle some of today's most challenging cultural questions while exploring one of the most misunderstood emotions in the Christian life—anger. Through Scripture and practical wisdom, they discuss God's design for sexuality, why truth and love must remain together, the difference between righteous and sinful anger, and how followers of Jesus can engage difficult conversations without being controlled by outrage, fear, or cultural pressure. If you've ever wondered how to stand firmly on God's Word while reflecting the grace and character of Christ, this conversation is for you. In This Episode: The difference between righteous anger and sinful anger Why human anger rarely produces God's righteousness How to respond to controversial cultural issues biblically God's design for sexuality and identity Did Jesus affirm same-sex relationships? How Christians can engage culture without compromising conviction Practical ways to reflect the character of Christ in difficult conversations Truth without love becomes harsh. Love without truth becomes compromise. Jesus calls us to both. Stand firm. Think biblically. Live free. 💬 This week’s giveaway: Comment HAT 🧢 Want a Live Free hat of your own? Visit LiveFree.shop 📲 Looking to grow deeper in your faith? Check out the Lakepointe App to access our Discipleship Guide, daily Bible reading plan, and more. Text APP to 20411 to download

Every show is a sermon. Every show is literally whether you like it or not, discipling your kids. World says I was born this way. Christ says you can be born again another way. Righteous anger is something you possess. Sinful anger is something that it possesses you. Well, hey, welcome back to another episode of the Live Free Podcast. My name is Carlos Arraser.

And today I am here with the one and only, Pastor Paul Cunningham, the expert tattoo whisperer and more Greek-speaking, theologian. Wow, you're really setting me up big for a big letdown. I feel like in a little bit, yeah. Man, this is going to be a good episode. How are you, man? Oh, I'm doing awesome, man. Pastor Josh is on vacation. Hope he's having a good time.

Okay. But, man, I'm so good to be with you. And I was actually thinking about you yesterday, man. What? Okay, tell me about it. Yeah, it was the first game of the NBA finals was on there. And so I don't know if you know, but like when people come and visit and they haven't seen us before.

I know you're going to show us a few people who have been visiting us. They're always like, man, man, Carlos is really tall. He's like Victor Wimonyama. And so I don't know. Do you know who Wimby is? I do. My fellow French brother. I was like, man, I feel like Carlos is the Wimby of our church.

Oh, wow. Okay. If you are just joining us on Spotify or something, you don't have video, I may want to go over there and look. But yeah, the wonders of AI. I thought you were going to pull a Tim Duncan over here. I mean, Tim Duncan is awesome too. I'm just saying you tower over everybody else in the lobby the way Wimby towers over everybody on the court, man.

You know, that's kind of how I feel sometimes, especially when I travel, like, overseas. I genuinely feel like, you know, just two heads taller. Yeah, man. That's hilarious. Man, it's a last weekend or this last week, Pastor Mike Bro, started us off with a brand new sermon series and Fuego. We're going to talk about that in just a little bit, but we're excited because today we're going to be addressing a couple different topics. James, chapter 1 verse 19, talking about anger, especially unresolved anger. We're going to go today in this episode Pride Month, responding to some of the most common arguments,

people have that people use towards Christians basically to say, hey, actually, you're wrong and I'm right regarding LGBTQ ideology. We're going to be debunking questions such as the word homosexuality, Paul, wasn't in the Bible until 1946. I want you to explain that. Okay. I want you to explain that in just a little bit. Okay.

Other questions such as it's inconsistent to follow Old Testament Bible on same-sex relationships, but not in other Levitical's prohibition. The Bible. Like eating, for example, shellfish. Are you a shrimp eater, Carlos? I am actually. You hypocrite. We're going to learn some things today.

You hypocrite. We're going to figure that out. The Bible only condemns exploitative same-sex relationships, not consensual, loving same-sex marriages like we have today. That's what some people will say. And if we have time, we're going to be talking about Sesame Street and their ex-posts about LGBTQ promotion for kids. Yeah. And just talking about how do we equip parents to have these conversations with their kids because the world is already having those conversations with them? Hey, last episode, we had something very significant happening.

Okay. We hit one million subscribers. Yes, he did. Bro. So first of all, a couple things on this. One, thank you to everybody that has been sharing, honestly, liking, commenting. This is a big deal. Obviously, you know, again, we have a little 100,000 thing over there, but a million is a big deal.

We appreciate that. One thing that I think, I don't know if we've done a great job on this, Paul. and I think we could do better is that ultimately the views and the streams and the traffic on social media I mean honestly one that's been insane but too it's great

but ultimately those numbers are people and stories and we are all about people and stories we love getting emails, letters we get to hear literally every single week in the lobby here in our campuses we get to hear story after story

of life change of what God is doing and how God is using this podcast and we love that we get to do that. I got a couple stories because this is what we're celebrating right here. We got Trey and Allison from Missouri. This is literally this last weekend. By the way, Trey got a tattoo to Teletestai. And so he missed you. You should have fact check that, making sure. Well, at that point it would have been too late. It would have been awkward if it was. Well, yes. You can, it's right there. You can tell me if you got it right. It's exactly right.

Okay, good. Trey, we're good. They visited from Missouri. They just literally flew in to say hi. We have Jed and Wendy. Jedd, they drove three hours to come to church. Jed hadn't been in church for 19 years, got hooked on the podcast, God's doing something in his heart, and he's back home. So welcome, Jed, man. We love that you're hearing. And last story here, we got Ernie from New Mexico. My friend Ernie, he was involved in Mormonism. And for many years, he started listening to Lake Point Church Online sermons, joined the podcast regularly as well, joined a life group online for Lake Point. He gave his life to Christ. He drove last weekend with his life group and his family to Lake Point. To a lake group. point campus to get baptized. There was a whole party thrown. And so, man, we had the opportunity to celebrate our brother in Christ getting baptized. I was there and got to meet him that weekend. Such a good guy's family was there and just the joy on their faces, man. And like, to your point, we don't want people to misinterpret us when we celebrate the million because it's really not about building our kingdom or our platform. Really, really for us, it's, man, we do unashamedly want

to reach as many people as possible with the gospel and help form biblical worldviews and as many people as possible. Zero apologies. But what fires us up is not a view count or how many subscribers we have is the story. So even like yesterday, I think the three or four of us were texting each other additional stories that we're hearing for people. That's what we like fires us up and that's what we live for in terms of what we're saying God do here. Yeah, man. So one, thank you because this is not just something like, you know, a small group of people does. This is literally like a group group team effort. Yeah. But ultimately it's not about one million, it's about one more. And we'll say this often.

Man, we want to get one more. We are passionate about sharing the gospel. Praise God for YouTube and all these social media things. People will ask me, oh, I didn't know you love YouTube so much in social media. Honestly, I don't. I just, I just like, I'm passionate about sharing our faith, and I just want people to understand what the Bible teaches. And so, praise God that we get to be a part of what God is doing through Lake Point in this season and through Live Free.

Hey, if you, speaking of things happening in the church, if you are a young adult and you're looking for, so not Paul and not me, and you're looking for community. There's a reason I wear a hat. It's a reason I wear a hat. That's a joke. That's terrible. If you're a young adult and you're looking for a community, something to do this summer beginning June 2nd,

so this already started. At the Rockwell campus every Tuesday night, we have college nights. And this is an opportunity for you to come hang out, meet new people, your age, and our very own Paul Cunningham, and yours truly will be joining one of these for a live Q&A on stage July 28th

on Tuesday. So if you're in the area, we'd love to see you, come say hi. For more information, text the word events to 20411. If you are part of the Live Free Nation and you're outside of the DFW and you are ever here, again, we love to meet you, come meet you, come say hi, find us in our first time guest, tens. We love, we have a gift for you. We do a hat giveaway every single week, Paul. And we have a ladies version and a man's version. So text the word hat or not text.

Drop the word hat in the comment section on YouTube or Spotify to participate in this giveaway. way or you if you don't win people keep asking about this if you don't win you can just go purchase it online yeah go to live free that shop or text the word had to two zero 401 by the way we're working on this merch shop and this is kind of this is new this is not available yet first first look this is not available yet but we got this coming soon dude for your gym that's awesome so if you want to get inspired and put this in your home gym uh you will lift three times as heavy if you have this right here. Scientifically proven.

That's right. You can have Carlos' muscles. And then, uh, well, trust me, I'm not sure that's the most, uh, that's the best incentive for people, Paul. Uh, I was going to say, Paul might be able to sign it for you and, you know, it's going to be great. Uh, are you lifting in this season? I am running.

I am a runner. I do run, but I, I'm, I'm lifting actually more than I was, man. I stepped on the scale a month ago and a wall of shame hit me. And then I saw a video of ourselves. And I was like, okay, I counted it on the scale and I saw it on the video. It's time to get back in shape, man. So I'm lifting and doing some running about 10 pounds down. Got a few more to go, man.

I did legs literally like Monday. And I think I overdid the weight. I did dead lifts. And man, I've had like a very sore lower back for the last couple days. Man, I'm feeling like I'm 42 or something. I'm like I'm Paul Cunningham or something or Josh Tarleton. So speaking of anger in the Bible, speaking of anger. No, I'm just missing.

Yes, yes. Last thing, hey, to find our daily Bible reading plan, plus the weekly sermon, plus an early release of this episode, you can download the Lake Point Church app, text the word app to 2-4-1, or go to Apple or Google Play Store. Ready to talk about the sermon? I'm ready to talk about the sermon.

Carlos, man, can I ask you a question? Yes, you could ask me. I will out. Thank you, sir. What did you think of this sermon, man? How did they hit you? Man, it was good. First of all, shout at to Pastor Mike.

Yes. New sermon series and Fuego. Always kills it. That's a killer title. Carlos, what does it mean for our non-Spanish speakers? Of course. Thanks for asking. It means on fire.

Okay. Yes, I'm sure, you know, as Pastor Mike addressed it this weekend. Yeah. On fire and for you. I like this time. It's pretty hot. It's, you know. And so that's actually not a great joke.

It's okay. I was going to let you pass on it. So, man, we went James chapter one, verse 19. So if you haven't listened to the sermon, you can go back and check it out on YouTube. So James, you know, we know it was written by Jesus' little brother. James, I didn't know this, but. First of all, if you think about James being Jesus' little brother, if you think about that, like he literally grew up with Jesus.

Right? And so whatever you see him writing, like he's not just saying in a theoretical way. Like he witnessed it. He experienced it himself. The gospel of John tells us in John 7.5 that at some point, James didn't even believe Jesus was the son of God. Obviously, because what would it take for you to believe that your brother was God incarnate? A lot.

Yeah. Like a resurrection is what it would take. So here is James and he's writing about Jesus and obviously he's speaking from what he's seen. This is perhaps one of the earliest possibly, Paul, one of the earliest books in the New Testament that we have. Some people believe it was written between 44 and 62 AD,

which is literally like 10 to 30 years after Jesus was resurrected. And so let me just take a moment. So James chapter 1 verse 19, this is what it says. Just as we chew on this a little bit, know this, my beloved brothers, let every person be quick to hear. slow to speak

slow to anger for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God again James is probably thinking man I saw my brother Jesus

live this out and he's saying this is what we need to be as followers of Christ and if you think about it Paul this is like

this is literally the absolute opposite of what we see in our social media culture today like identically the opposite we say

we ought to be quick to hear slow to speak slow to anger, but today our tendency is to be slow to hear, quick to listen, or sorry, quick to speak, and quick to anger. Yeah. Like that's literally X, all your X feed is that. And this reminds me of this other verse that is connected to this, that honestly, if you think about it, this is probably one of the most relevant Bible verses for our time today, and most people don't even know about it. This is Proverbs chapter 19, verse 11.

It says, a person's wisdom yields patience. it is to one's glory to overlook an offense. The Hebrew word for glory in this verse here means beauty, honor, splendor, something admirable. And so if you pay attention today on social media, what people find as glorious is honestly just being offended by everything. So this is how you monetize platforms today. You are angry. You have outrage. You are triggered.

And if you are that, you will get a lot of attention. but here the word is saying, hey, when you overlook an offense, it is to your glory. And so in other words, not every battle is worth fighting for. And now, again, this does not justify what they did or what they said. It frees you from what they did and what they said. And so if you're a Christian, wisdom is being responsive. It is not being reactive. In fact, the Bible says that literally, if you're easily offended, you might not have an offense problem.

you might have a wisdom problem. Because the more easily offended you become, the easier you are to control. And if people can control your emotions, they can control your reactions. And we have a term for that. It's called rage-baiting. And so if you think about it,

Jesus also said in Matthew chapter 5 verse 12, blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you, and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. And then he says, rejoice and be glad. That should be your response,

which means that oftentimes being offended is inevitable, but stay in offended. is a choice. That's good. And so somebody else also said, if you are on a continuous search to be offended, you will always find what you're looking for.

Bro, that is so true. So this would be, you know, as we medited on this, and I'm just going to ask you a couple things here in a second. This is something that I would say to our friends right now listening, and I say this with love, stop wasting your time being offended by all these small, worthless, insignificant things. You're calling us a Christian is much, much greater than that.

and perhaps, yes, I understand, you were offended, but sometimes the most mature and spiritual thing you can do is surrender that to the Lord, let it go, brush it off, give them grace, and move on. The world will call that weakness, but the Bible calls that glory. Amen, man. A few things there. I love, before we maybe jump into, you know,

we talked about maybe the three types of anger in the Bible, but a few things you said stick out. Number one, love your tie-in, and you maybe didn't even realize you're doing it between Proverbs and James. Yeah. because many scholars say that the book of James is actually a form of New Testament wisdom literature, that a lot of how James writes is these kind of short sayings, which sometimes, like, for example,

if you read the Apostle Paul or Peter, they're writing sustained arguments, very logical, whereas James will kind of hit some stuff, move on to another subject, and he repeats the same subjects over and over again, much like the book of Proverbs. And so I just love that connection there, that how both Proverbs and James has stuff to say to us. also you're just observations on our culture like I was reading some research coming into this week of literally the rates of self-reported anger

have never been higher and part of that is because it is the best way to what you said to drive attention or to gain attention people call it rage baiting or farming obviously you see this on social media or sometimes people will say stuff that I don't actually think that they believe

I think they're saying it just because they'll get a reaction in the same way what's interesting is you know what the leading cause of anger now or one of the leading causes of anger is in terms of what they see on social media or the news? No. Politics. Shocker. I know, right? I know. Everybody always gets wrong in politics. Who would have thought? Who would have thought? But if you actually look, it's crazy how much it has increased. And part of that is even like this is actually, I'll just be honest, when things I get frustrated by politicians on either side of issues here in America is that I feel like so many of them, instead of giving us a vision worth living for and building towards,

they give us something to be angry at. Because if they give us something to be angry at, we can be angry at this and this person is my enemy. And it gets me angry and it gets me motivated for a short season, but then we never actually can cast a vision of what we're building towards and a vision worth living for. And so that's just, I think all your tie-ins there are just amazing. For me, this was a very personal subject, just opening up before we jump in some of the theological stuff.

Anger has been something. I know, again, we wouldn't call it generational curse. We had that conversation a month or so. I mean, you can. But I will say it's a generational stronghold. This has actually been one in my family. Interesting. Yeah.

It's been one in my family. My dad has been very open about the struggles he had with anger. My dad was a pastor. And so he had two big moments in his life that really convicted him of his anger issues. One was he was yelling, I believe, at my brother. And, I mean, just really tearing into him. And just for clear, my dad was no way physically violent or abusive. He just, he had a very sharp tone and sharp tenor in his voice.

And so he was yelled at him one time. And then all of a sudden, in the day, door swung open and he could see himself in the mirror across the hall and just saw how awful his face looked. And that was just a moment of like, okay, something's got to change. Another moment kind of like that. We were in the car. And, you know, it's always really peaceful in a car ride with family when you're on long car trips, more trips, especially back then when you didn't have iPhones or iPads or anything except books on tape. Do you ever have those growing up? Books on tape, I don't know. Cassettes. Do you know what those things are?

Cassettes, no, I have no idea. What is that? Moving on. Anyways, I'm getting angry. No. But no, so he was getting really mad at my brother-in-law. Wait, this is what you as a kid, you're saying. Yeah, I'm a kid. So my brother-in-law in the back. We're making a lot of noise.

He's getting really angry and yelling at us. Well, what he does not realize is that we had a tape recorder in the back. Oh, wow. And we had been recording everything. And so all of a sudden, we weren't doing this to him intentionally. Like, it wasn't like a ploy or a conspiracy. But we just were recording while he was doing this. We play it back.

And all of a sudden we push play, and he hears himself yelling. Wow. And it was just a huge convicting moment for him. And certain enough, though, for me growing up, I was exposed to some of that. But then for me on my own, and I've got to own my own stuff, it's like we talked about a month ago. I can't blame that on my dad. I make my own choices, and I'm in charge of my own emotions. I found anger to be something that I've really struggled with in my life.

And not a righteous anger that we'll talk about in a minute, but a sinful anger. And so to your point, this seems like one of those innocuous topics, but actually I think it's something that we're all wrestling with. And I just shared that to say, hey, even me. It's been a battle that I've had to fight, and I continue to have to fight it. So to your point, I don't let anger control me. And then I'm not his puppet. That's right. Yeah, man.

That's good, man. Well, let's talk about that for a second because, you know, you're right. It's a real thing. Yep. And it's one of those things that I don't know that we talk about it enough. Not all anger is the same. That's right. So, in fact, I've heard, Paul, there's three types of anger.

Tell me about it. Yeah. So in the Bible, you really have three different types of anger. Divine anger, human sinful anger. and then human righteous anger. Okay. Say it one more time. So divine anger.

And then when it comes to human anger, you have righteous anger and sinful anger. Okay. And so not all anger is bad. Not all anger is bad whatsoever. Sometimes people can approach this to maybe one of too much of a ditch, two ditches. On one side, one ditch would be all anger is bad. But that's not true. We see God has anger and that's not a bad thing.

Honestly, a lot of Christians think that, right? Because like, hey, we're supposed to be nice. We're never supposed to get angry about anything. and, you know, when somebody is angry, be like, oh, how unchristlike. Yeah. Scripture literally says, be angry and do not sin. Okay. It doesn't say, don't sin by not being angry.

It just says, it's like basically you can be angry and not sin. It's possible for that to happen. So on one side is people think it's all bad. The other side, people maybe who think it's just totally neutral. Oh, it's just an emotion we feel. Whereas actually in scripture, it seems like it is an emotion, but it is not a neutral thing. It's a very dangerous thing. And it seems like most of the time, anger in scripture is more of the sinful variety.

So we've got to figure out how to navigate it. So let me walk through these. Let me really talk about divine anger and how is maybe different than ours. But then I think it would be helpful for you and I then to spend a few minutes, juxtaposing righteous anger versus sinful anger so that people can kind of know, okay, if this is an emotion that can be good or bad, which is it? Like, how do I know if this is something I need to repent of? Or actually, if this is maybe something I need to lean into because it might be right for me to feel this way.

So when we talk about divine anger or God's anger, we have to be careful not to think that God has emotions like you and me. Our emotions go up and down depending what is happening to us or around us. God isn't like that. You can't make God have a bad day. You've never encountered God on a day where he's having a bad mood. He's not like that where his emotions are fluctuating up and down base when it's happening to him. Because think about it, he knows everything and he knows everybody. And so if that were the case, literally inside of him at any time, would be all these conflicting emotions.

That's not how God is. Instead, when the Bible talks about God having emotions like anger, that's a way of kind of saying and expressing, hey, this is God's unchanging character that's being an express in a way that we can experience in time or in a way that we can understand. So again, it's his unchanging character, but expressed in a way that we can experience or understand in time. And so when it comes to anger, that is God's holy and just opposition to sin and evil. And by the way, he's opposed to it all the time. So it's not like God's like, all right, I'm cool with sin. I'm cool with sin. Oh, you push me over the edge. Now I'm angry.

No, he's always opposed to it, but there comes times where we feel that or that he expresses that in scripture. So let me put it this way. When I get angry, something outside of me is changing my emotional state. When God is angry, he is expressing his unamborough. unchanging state against sin. Does that make sense? Yeah. And by the way, some people don't like to hear that God gets angry. Yeah. It is because he's good that he gets angry. Exactly. I was going to say three things, a few things. Keep going. Yeah, because if he were to see something that is evil and he would be indifferent or not angry towards it, that would not be okay. That would not make him good. Yeah. Like, I mean, if we, if you met just a person on the street or just even someone you knew, they looked at injustice in the world and they felt nothing.

you would actually be concerned about the moral character. Yes. Yeah. We usually call those people sociopaths. Yes. And so the idea is not like, it's actually a good thing that God gets angry at things. In fact, let me hit some points out of kind of maybe get some guard rails in terms of what we mean by God's anger and what we don't mean. God's anger, kind of to your point, is not the opposite of love.

It's actually the expression of his love against everything that destroys what he loves. Okay. So let's put it like this. if God loves children, he must hate child abuse. If God loves truth, he must hate lies. If God loves justice, he must hate oppression. So it's not the opposite of his love. It's actually the expression of his love against anything that destroys what he loves.

Okay, so that's point number one. Point number two, God's anger is always perfectly and holy and justified. So God has never once ever reacted. Never. I don't know if you've ever reacted to a situation. Carlos, but I sure have. Over the smallest of things. Perhaps I have.

Yeah, where there's driving in traffic and I get mad because someone is driving, God forbid, five miles under the speed limit. Never in marriage, though. No, 100%, man. But driving perhaps. I just want to be like you one day, Carlos. No, obviously that's not true. If somebody didn't understand, that's a joke.

But now he's never reacted. He's never once regretted a word that he spoke in anger, anything like that. Every ounce of his anger is perfectly calibrated to the evil that does. deserves it. Wow. Okay. So that's a big thing to know is he's always perfectly angry and it's always perfectly justified. So God doesn't overreact to a situation. He's always perfect in how he reacts. Number three, and this is a really important. Slow to anger, by the way. Yes. That's where I was going next. Okay. Oh, go ahead. Go ahead. Man. Is God's anger is slow. Okay. That's a really important one. Because sometimes, yeah, when people think about God's anger,

they can kind of picture like just God in heaven getting ticked off at every little thing. No, no, no, no. Like, one of the most repeated descriptions of God in Scripture is that he is slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love. The wonder of Scripture isn't that God gets angry at sin. It's how much he's willing to endure before he shows his unchanging anger towards sin. He's actually so patient all day, every day. Like, just think about this for a second. Everything in creation does whatever God tells it to do. And so when he said, let there be light.

there was light. When he wanted the waters to part the Red Sea so the people could walk through, it parted. When Jesus wanted the water to stand firm under his feet so he could walk on it, it's in firm. Everything in creation does exactly what God tells it to do, except for one thing, us. We're the one thing in all creation that has the audacity

to tell God no. And billions of people, every day all day, are doing that all day. And so it's a wonder. that he is as patient as he is, but he is because he loves us. Because I'd like to remind our listeners in case that hit you hard when you're listening to this, we are also the one thing in all of creation that God had the audacity to die for. He is patient, he's abounding love.

So I don't want to get pictures. I want people to kind of hold this intention. God hates anything that destroys what he loves. So he hates sin, but he loves us sinners and is so patient with us. Anything to add in terms of divine anger, anything that you'd color in? Yeah, Paul, what's the best picture of God's anger displayed? in scripture. It's a great question.

It's also coincidentally the best demonstration of his love. There you go. And that's the cross. That's right. The cross is simultaneously a picture of how much God hates sin and how much God loves us. That's right. He hates it so much that it took the death of his son to atone for it. And yet he loves us so much that he sent his son to be the atoning death for us.

Yeah, at the cross, Jesus took upon himself the wrath of God, the righteous, holy, person. holy, perfect wrath of God that you and I deserved in our place for our sins. And what theologians would call it the great exchange. I believe it was Martin Luther. And Jesus' righteousness was given to us and our sin was placed on Jesus. He who knew no sin became sin so that we would be called the righteousness of God. That's right. There you go.

That's right. So here's what this sets up now as we begin. We're going to spend some time to just juxtapose and kind of contrast. than human anger that's righteous versus sinful is because if God can be angry and God is righteous, therefore there is such a thing as righteous anger that, by the way, because we're made in God's image, we can have.

But, again, scripture seems to make it seem like most of the instances of human anger are more sinful. But the question is, okay, how do I know the difference? How do we know when the anger I'm feeling over what's happening to me around me is justified and righteous or if it's sinful and if I'm overreacting? So we're just going to kind of juxtapose these, kind of take some turns back and forth.

Carlos, you want to lead us off? Yeah, so this is really practical. So now that we know, thank you for letting us know, Paul. So God gets angry and when he does, he's always righteous and holy and perfect. That's not always the case with us. That's right. Usually it's not the case with us.

Especially when you're driving or especially in marriage. That tends to happen. That's a different podcast. But here's what you need to ask yourself, whatever we're about to share right now, this is basically to help you basically ask, hey, is the anger that I'm feeling right now righteous or is it not? So here's the first thing.

I would say righteous anger is about God's will, so it's centered around God. Sinful anger is about my will and it's centered around me primarily. So, for example, righteous anger is because God is dishonored. People are harmed. Evil is celebrated. Sinful anger is because I was inconvenienced or I was embarrassed or I was contradicted or I was ignored and I didn't get my way. Sometimes it's not righteous anger. Sometimes it's your pride.

And so you want to ask, ultimately, am I angry because of God in his righteousness or am I angry because of me and my pride. Go ahead and next one. That's good. Yeah, number two, righteous anger is proportionate. Sinful anger is exaggerated. So righteous anger fits whatever the offenses. Like, like, it's good if you get angry at injustice or awful things in the world. Again, if you didn't ever feel any anger, I would be concerned with you. But sinful anger turns minor frustrations into major offenses. So again, this is a very obviously exaggerated thing I'm about to say, but I think it proves the point. Getting angry, over child abuse is proportionate.

By the way, that includes if the child abuse happened to you. It is okay to be angry about stuff that happened to you if it's a violation of God's will and that is. So getting angry over things out, child abuse or things like that is totally proportionate. Exploding because someone drove solely in front of you is not. Is not. I have a moment like this, for example,

where I was angry one morning about eight, nine years ago. My kids were smaller and trying to get them out the door to school. And sometimes that's like, hurting and wrangling cats, man. And so, like, I'm trying to get them. We're running late. And we had a small dog named bear, which is kind of funny because he was small dog and named bear.

But the kids wanted to name him Fluffy and he was already a small dog. And I said I would never have a small dog. So we were going to give him a manly name. So bear was. Okay, go ahead. Yeah. How dare you? Yeah, I feel like you're rage baiting me this entire episode on purpose, man.

I'm just giving you a hard time. I'm just messing with you too, dude. All in love. So anyways, I'm trying to get them out the door and we're running late. and I got to get to work as well after I dropped them off to school. And then Bear starts hiding underneath my son's bed. And it was a hard bed to get under.

And so I'd get him out. And then I'm trying to get the kids to get something. And then he hides back under the bed. This happens three or four times. And I just get really angry. And I'm screaming at the dog like it was the worst offense in the history of humanity. And then my kids, it was terrible.

But then I look at my kids and they look scared, bro. Oh, wow. I looked in their eyes and they looked scared. And it was just, it was actually like, it was reminded of me like, my dad had that moment. And then I had that moment. That was actually one of the first

moments about eight, nine, ten years ago. I was like, okay, I got to get some stuff has gone awry. I got to get anger control because the point there was like, being a little frustrated would have been okay in that situation. But the fact that I do with that, it was exaggerated. So righteous anger is proportionate. Sinful anger is exaggerated. Next one.

Here's another one. I would say righteous anger is slow to rise. Sinful anger is quick triggered. Right? And so as Christians, man, we want to be, wisdom says we should be responsive, not reactive. The Bible says God who is perfect is because he's our standard. He's perfect. He only has righteous, perfect anger, and yet he is slow to anger.

And so we want to be more like him. So we want to be slow to anger, not quick to react. Let's keep going. That's good. Righteous anger seeks restoration. Sinful anger seeks punishment. And so if you actually look in scripture, oftentimes when God anger is expressed, especially the Old Testament, there is punishment that is involved, but the purpose is always towards restoration.

And scripture talks about how God would say, I am wounded due so that you may be healed. Or he sends them into exile so that they may return so that they may realize the consequences of their sins, but eventually repent of those sins and return. And so now that there's no punishment, it's just that's not the end. God's end is towards restoration. Whereas oftentimes we just want people to be in trouble and get in trouble and to be punished for what they did. We don't care so much that they repent of what they did and they're restored to God and restored to relationship. with me. So like here's here's maybe a good question to ask. Would I be disappointed if the person in question that I'm angry at genuinely repented and was restored? Would I be disappointed? And if I would

be, that's probably be a good indication that at this point, I just want them to be punished for whatever they did. I don't want them to be restored from what they did. That's good. That's good. Here's I would say another one. Righteous anger remains controlled. Sinful anger controls you. Right? And so the Bible speaks about being sober-minded. And it also talks about self-control, which is a fruit of the spirit. And so here's what I would say it. Righteous anger is something you possesses you. You've got to watch out. That's good. Keep going. A couple more. We'll do these quickly. Righteous anger produces productive action. Sinful anger produces destructive reaction. And so think of it this way. Righteous anger asks, what should be donor? How can this be made right? Like even, even, if something went wrong, how can we put me, how can this be made right? Again, going back to the idea of restoration. Sinful anger ask, how can I vent and how can I get even? So again, let me just be very clear. We are not saying that especially if something happened to you, to those you love, you do have no place to feel mad about that or upset or wrong. No, you do. But then you have to ask

yourself, man, do I just simply want to get even and vent about what they did or whatever happened, and do I want it to be made right, which, by the way, may mean that they have to face consequences. But these are some of the tough questions. You have to ask yourself to really parse out, man, is my anger still a righteous anger? But that's reflecting God, or is it a sinful anger that's centered around me? I think we got one more, right? Yeah, we got one more. So I would say righteous anger addresses the issue and then surrenders it to God.

Sinful and anger, on the other hand, becomes bitter. And this is basically, there are some things that perhaps when we get angry, we try to control. and ultimately it is not up to me to control. It's up to me to surrender it to the one who should be controlling that. And that's God. And so only God can change somebody else's heart. Only God can change somebody else's soul or feelings and handle your situation. And so when you have righteous anger, you understand, okay, I did my part.

I need to address what I need to address. And then the rest is up to God. That's good. Versus sinful anger becomes bitter because you're still trying to control the thing that's really not up to you to control. That's good. I have a thought, but I'm going to actually say because in the coming weeks, we're actually going to have a week that focuses on forgiveness. But I think this is a very big part of it. So I'd say if this is an issue for you in terms of something that's happened to you, that you're still having trouble letting go of, I believe, the next week or two, we're going to be talking about forgiveness.

But let me do this before we move on and do a pivot into talking, helping our people think through Pride Month and how do they think through some of the accusations that are some to maze, maybe how do they talk to our kids about it? We've actually got a table that we can put up on the screen that really puts all these things. things together of again, just running briefly through these again. So you got righteous anger and sinful anger. Righteous anger is about God's will. It's proportionate. It's slow to rise. It seeks restoration. It remains controlled. It produces productive action and it can let it go. Sinful anger is about me and my will. It's exaggerated. It's quickly triggered. It seeks punishment. It controls you. It produces destructive reaction and it becomes bitterness. And so I think what we would just say to our listeners when it comes to anger,

God wants you to live free of anything that is holding back from everything that he wants for you. And that includes the anger that might be controlling you. If that's you, here's the good news, is that any day is a great day for us to repent, to give him the anger that we've been harboring, to ask him to help us release us from it, and then to move on into a new day. Let's go, man. Well, that's a good word. Yeah, man.

I think one of the things Pastor Mike also addressed this last weekend is that anger, he said, And I've heard this say this before, but I thought it was interesting. Anger, he said, is a secondary emotion. And so behind that anger, usually there's something else. And honestly, like, if you think about it, many times when there is anger behind it, there is pride. And that's kind of what we want to be addressing right now as we start the month of June. Let's talk about pride, man. Well, hey, Lifery Nation, before we jump into the episode, this podcast is recorded right here at Lake Point Church in Dallas, Texas.

but the live free nation is spread all over the country and all around the world. So if you've been watching and thinking, man, I wish I could be part of something like this, we want to invite you to take a simple next step, and that is join us for church online. Every weekend we stream our services live on YouTube, Facebook, and our church online platform,

and it's more than just watching a service. There are a live host in the chat, prayer teams ready to stand with you, and people all around the world worshiping together in real time. And so whether you're exploring the faith, coming back to church or just looking for a place to start. Church online is a great way to jump in and experience what God is doing here at Lake Point. We would love to see you in the chat this weekend, and now enjoy the podcast.

Okay, man. That was a great segue, by the way. I was like, I was like, where's he going with this? It's just so well, man. Well, you've got to figure out a way to connect both the conversations. That was not the easiest one. No. But hey, so we are in June, Paul, and another one.

It feels like every year there's just something different. to kind of tackle regarding Pride Month. Yep. So if you don't know this, in 1999, President Bill Clinton became the first U.S. President to officially declare June

as Gay and Lesbian Pride Month. The presidential proclamation, and later in 2009, President Barack Obama expanded it to include the bisexual and transgenderism side to it. The BN.A. And then in 2021, Joe Biden was the first president to add the plus.

and today the official acronym in the United States for this is LGBTQI plus. Now in Canada, because we got some Canadian listeners, live free, let's go. In Canada, the official acronym is 2S LGBTQI plus, which includes the 2S at the beginning, which means two spirit, and this basically just means some indigenous people for, it's an indigenous concept. Basically, those who have both masculine and feminine spirits are 2S, or perhaps a third, gender. So anyways, we're not going to explain that right now. I don't mean to be offensive, but this is, it's starting to become like trying to memorize the number pie. Whereas like there's somebody, I'm not, it's to get a little out of control. I was like,

okay, sorry. Like, what was that again, the Canadian say? Yeah, 2S-L-G-B-T-Q-I-plus. And, uh, sure. So, yeah. All this is to say, um, this conversation is interesting because I remember, again, back in the day, seeing some of the rise. I was in college and, you know, again, This is like 2011, 2012. And, you know, fast forward to today, some of the, when you look around just even paying attention on social media, some of the responses regarding just the overall Pride month idea seems to be changing. And so it's interesting. There was this article that was going around right now. Trindy, if you can pull it up.

This is basically a Gallup article. It says U.S. support for LGBTQ plus issues remains down from peak. And so what it basically says is for two decades, the approval for LGBTQ ideology has risen consistently. It's been kind of rising. It peaked around 2015, which is interestingly enough when Obergefell happened. And then it plateaued. But then now, check out the other image. Now it's going down.

And so same-sex marriage support has gone from 71%. But now it's like 65%. The belief that gay lesbian relations are morally acceptable is now at 62%. that's the lowest since 2016. Moral acceptance of changing one's gender has dropped across every political group since 2021. It's at like 38%. Again, and some people are asking like,

what's happening? What's changing? And we can talk about some theories. Some people would think, well, maybe it's because of the explicit sexual LGBTQ content and gender transition marketed primarily towards kids. We're going to talk about it in just a second. Perhaps it's because biological men identifying as trans are using women.

in spaces or at least pushing for that. Biological men competing in women's sports. That's been also a conversation in the last couple years. Gay couples adopting children via surrogacy. That's a big deal. And by the way, we are working on getting a friend of the podcast, Katie Faust, to join to have a conversation about that very soon. And so people are kind of thinking through perhaps even people that are not even Christians

are kind of going through some of these conversations and being like, well, like, something just feels off here. Yeah. There's a point where you're like, you know, some pastors have described it as the devil has overplayed its hand. And so, Paul, I want to ask you, because we're about to dive into some of these conversations, especially things that people will say to Christians, like, oh, wait, you're misguided because of, and then, you know, they'll use the Bible or they'll kind of, you know, we're going to

talk about that in just a second. But I want to ask you, man, before we do, would you be able to share with us a brief, like an overview of what does the Bible actually say regarding this topic. Yeah, and before I think it may be important just to add this is on the wind, man, we can celebrate the fact that the tide, at least for now, seems to be turning. Yes. And that's something to celebrate. That's right. Because it was skyrocketing up into the right the entire time, and then now it's plateaued and it's dipping, and that's something to celebrate. But one of the reasons with them we're talking about it, because people say, well, then why are you guys talking about it? It looks like it's finally going down

against like, no, no, no, like, we've got to keep doing it because we have a long way to go to turn back the tide of how far it advanced. Also, I've got another graph for us that shows, though, another way to think about this to say, well, we still have more work to do. So this is opinions about sexual relations between two adults the same sex. Don't by Ryan Burge, does great stuff. If you're not following them on social media, give him a follow. He gives great stuff. And so what this is charting is basically the opinions based on your faith, and then within Christianity based on the different denominations of faith. And so everyone but evangelicals over the last 40 years have switched from not supporting it to supporting it as a majority, some more than others.

But we can see an evangelical back in the 1970s and 1980s, 85% of evangelicals would have said it was always wrong and only 6 would have said. I mean, yeah, it's always right. But now today it's 63% who would say it's always wrong. and 27% who would say, no, it's actually always right. That's interesting. And evangelicals, that's a loaded term. But basically the type of people who would go to late point church and churches like ours.

So we can't assume that everyone who is a Christian still believes what God has to say about this. So this is partly of why we're going to continue to talk about it because we don't want assume. And then number two, for those who already do believe what we believe the Bible says, we want to help you respond to us. That's why we're doing this. But that being said to your question,

maybe just given an overall thing. I narrowed this down to really four statements. And then maybe I'll go back in, I'm going to do the four in a row, and then I'll go back and maybe give a little bit of detail on a few of them. Kind of four principles and not just about same-sex attraction or same-sex relationships, but really about sexuality in general. Okay. Principle number one, the one who designs is the one who decides. Okay. I'm going to come back to these and explain a little bit more. So the one who designs is the one who decides. Number two, sex is a good. God-given gift designed for a God-given context. So we've now established the one who designs is the one who decides. Number two, God is the one who designed sex, so he gets to decide what context it is used in and is best expressed in. Point number three, that context that he's designed for is marriage between one biological man and one biological woman. Point number four, humans are free to ignore God's design. We can. We can completely disregard it. But

we are not free to redefine rebel against it without facing eternal, personal, and societal consequences. So we can reject that design. But in the same way that if I reject the design, like sometimes the joke I'll make, and it's silly, but like my lawnmower has a fan at the very bottom of it has a bunch of blades that I could hang on my roof and use as a ceiling fan. But it wasn't designed for that. So if I try to use that way, some serious consequences could result from that, especially if I'm under it when it falls. So that's the idea is we can reject God's design, but you are not free to reject. that without facing eternal, temporal, and then also societal consequences. Let me go back to those. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. You just said because honestly, this is because people think, well, eternal, sure, but what about now? You're including like your life here and now as well. Oh, yeah. And this is, again, this is an idea that you see in scripture all throughout that every time God says don't, he means don't hurt yourself. Exactly. Generally speaking, when it comes to this conversation after years of data, because we have more and more. And studies show today that people that choose to identify, as LGBT plus. You can literally research this,

consistently show higher rates of depression, anxiety disorders, substance abuse, self-harm, suicidal thoughts, and more. That's just what data is showing more and more and more. And some will say, well, it's actually because of discrimination.

And yet, today, even in the most progressive countries with full legal equality, high social acceptance, we're talking Netherlands, Sweden, and Denmark, literally these countries, like there's like an over 90% percent population support, above the population supports gay marriage.

People in same-sex relationships still in these countries have more than double the suicide rate of people in opposite-sex marriages. And so to your point, Paul, Jesus said, man, I came so that you can have an abundant life. Yes. The Bible says, man, obeying God's word brings blessing. And the Bible also warns that disobeying the word of God results in pain, hurt, confusion, and death. And so God's ways and God's purposes,

or better. Exactly. And just going back through and highlighting a few those principles again, like the one who designs is the one who decides. It's just this simple idea, like a right understanding of gender and sexuality actually doesn't begin with humans. It begins with God. It begins the one with the one who made them. So there either is a creator who purposefully and authoritatively orders reality, and that includes our bodies and our sexuality, or there isn't. If there is, we have to ask ourselves not what do we want to do with our bodies, but what does

he want us to do with our bodies. Different question. Exactly. Because I guess you could almost put it this way is the two questions I have to ask us, who designed me and who owns me. And it actually, it's not me who owns me. Scripture says, no, like, my body is a temple of the Holy Spirit and that I was crafted and it together by God. God owns me. Changes it when you ask the question, whose body is it? Is it my body? Is it God's body? Or am I stewarding the body that God gave me? And then skipping into number three, that the context of marriage is between one biological man and one biological woman. We're going to hit some of this in the details when we respond to some of the objections. But you see this clearly,

obviously, at creation, the idea of male and female he created them. And then Adam and Eve have their marriage, and they begin their life together. But then that design is reaffirmed throughout all of the scripture. If you go to the gospel was in Matthew 19 where Jesus has asked about marriage, he could, actually he's asked about divorce. He simply could have said what God is brought together may not tear asunder, may not separate, but he doesn't. He actually backs up and he establishes his hay in the beginning. And then he talks about God created Adam and Eve to be together. Male and female, he created them. So he establishes the definition of what marriage is. And he maintains the same thing that started all the way back in Genesis. So that's the pattern we see in scripture.

Wow. Okay. So before we dive in, because we're going to go through these quick. Yeah. One thing as well, to keep in mind just to add to what you're saying, Christians are called to do two things. One, we are called to hold fast to what is true. And two, we are called to love our neighbor. Yes. And so again, I'm saying this because some people say, well, that's obvious. Well, you know, the reason I'm saying this is because some Christians today, they will ignore what the Bible says about sexuality to, quote unquote, love their neighbor, while other people will hold on to what the Bible says about sexuality, but they fail to love their neighbor. And so we're called to do both. it is true that you can love and serve someone

without approving everything they do. Jesus did that and we must do the same thing. It is also true you can disagree with someone and still love them. Jesus did that and guess what? We are called to do the same thing. And so let's start with some of these. Paul, let me ask you this, man.

Here's probably one of the most popular one. Jesus never talked about homosexuality, Paul. And by the way, we have a meme here. The theologian Stephen Colbert says, I would like to read to you what Jesus said about homosexuality. I'd like to, but he never said anything about it. And he's got his Bible. Yeah.

I mean, it just deals the deal. I mean, I guess it's just over. He never talked about it. So we can't say anything. Yeah, a lot of people will use this line of argumentation. We've hit this recently, but you also would see this like James Teller Rico. This is a whole big thing that he does, not just with same-sex marriage and attraction relationships, but also with abortion.

Well, Jesus never said anything about it. And the inference, here's what I want people to get. The inference is that, well, if Jesus didn't condemn something, he condoned it. If he didn't condemn it, well, then he condoned it. But there's a lot of problems with that. Four big ones I want to hit it, and I'll try to keep this tight. Number one, this objection is an argument from silence, which is a logical fallacy. It assumes that the absence of evidence is the presence of fact.

So maybe let's put it this way to kind of help people understand why this is a silly way to argue. It's like saying Marco Polo never mentioned the Great Wall of China. So obviously we conclude that the Great Wall of China didn't actually exist because he never said anything about it. Or let's actually just use, you don't have to put the meme back up there. But if I was with Colbert right now, I'd say, okay, so can you flip to the passage where Jesus speaks against child abuse? I'll wait.

Can you flip to the passage where Jesus speaks against incest or beastiality? Right. I'll wait. He doesn't. And I doubt that Colbert would say that then he condones those practices. And so... Or this is, by the way, the meme. I don't know if he actually said that, just to clarify.

But yeah, yeah. Anyways, and here's the thing is, is like, an argument from silence doesn't say much. It doesn't. And so Jesus was silent on a lot of things. We have to ask, well, why didn't he address him? This brings us to point number two. The objection forgets Jesus's cultural context. So Jesus ministered mainly in the area of Judea.

And there were, there was widespread, not even widespread, there was universal agreement on things like incest, idolatry, same-sex relationships, and that's that they were sinful. So I mentioned a second ago, idolatry. Jesus never said anything about idolatry. But if you go to the Old Testament, it's the biggest sin that God consistently punishes them for and demonstrates his anger towards, as we were talking about earlier about his sinful, right? I mean about his righteous anger. But Jesus never mentions it. Does that mean that he was okay with it?

That all of a sudden, oh yeah, go and worship idols? No, of course. It just means he didn't have to because that wasn't the sin that the cultural context he was in was struggling with. He spoke to the sins they were struggling with. They universally believed that same-sex acts and relationships were sinful, so he didn't address them. Number three, the objection forgets Jesus' identity. If Jesus was God and the Bible is the word of God, then everything the Bible has to say on same-sex acts and relationships are Jesus' words. including if they're in Leviticus.

If he is God and the Bible is the Word of God, those are his words. And then finally, number four. Actually, let me recap. So number one, the objection is an argument from silence. Those are not strong. Number two, the objection forgets his cultural context. Number three, the objection forgets Jesus' identity. And number four, the objection forgets Jesus' definition of marriage.

As I said a minute ago, he made it clear in the book of Matthew what marriage is, is between a man and a woman. And I actually heard this from Pastor Josh once. I thought this was great. I don't have to say everything something isn't if I have a clear picture of what it is. So if you go into a crowded room, he doesn't have to say, that's not my wife, that's my wife, that's my wife, that's my wife. All he has to do is say, that's my wife, that's Jana. In the same way, when Jesus says, this is what marriage is, he then doesn't have to spell out everything that it isn't. Yeah, so those are a few thoughts.

Set me up on the next one. All right. So I got a picture for you. Oh, okay. The next argument I think is best represented in this picture. I think we'll blow a part of it out because it could be a little bit offensive. Okay. There's a sign this person is holding out a rally.

It says love is too beautiful to be hidden in the closet. So this is this idea, Carlos, is man, like, God is the God of love. And a God of love couldn't and wouldn't be against relationships that are built on love, even if they happen to be between two people of the same sex. Okay. What would you say? Well, let me tell your story. Yeah. Come on, man.

So my wife is from Michigan. Okay. I was born in Rays in El Salvador, different culture, obviously. I didn't know. So when I came here, I had to learn some things. One, I had to learn how to speak English. That's not so important. And then, two, well, you know, I learned before, but then working on, still working on today.

Well, I had to learn some of the cultural expressions, cultural ways here in America, here in the American way, Northern American, United States. Different conversation I'm trying to try to focus here. By the way, bro, real fast, dude. Like, if anyone was listening to you, they would all think English was your first language. You're incredible. It's okay. Keep going. Keep going.

So when we first started dating, you're going. I didn't know that here in the U.S. and you can tell me maybe this is a northern thing. It was a thing when you first start dating, you don't just say I love you just like that. When you say I love you, it's like a moment. Like you got to be ready and it's like a big deal. So I didn't know that.

So I started dating, you know, I'm just trying to be affectionate. I use my words in life. Kind of, you know, it's kind of what I do. And so when we started dating, I literally, I think it was like a week into it. I said, hey, Brooke, you know, she's my girlfriend now. And I say, hey, I love you. And she's like, what?

a week like what's going on and you know I'm just so confused because like one I want to be affectionate to her so I know what love means and I just kind of

I'm using that word and it's my girlfriend so what are you want to say I like you like well you know I don't know what people say and two I was confused because she she hadn't said that to me

before us when I'm like well we're dating and like I'm just kind of waiting for her to tell me that she loves me you know like what's going to I heard I say like literally like the day before

that she loves to eat pizza or whatever or like you know and so what's going on And so here's what I learned. We were using the same word, but we meant different things. That's good. So when it comes to this conversation and when people say things like, man,

our God of love can't be against a relationship of love, we need to be asking who gets to define what love actually is? The Bible teaches that God is love, but love is not God. And so if God is love and you're a Christian, then here's what you do. You trust what God says. that love is. And so you trust God to define what love is.

And so what we don't do is we don't take our own personal experience or what culture is saying today. And then we project that unto what we believe God should bless and how we think God should be. Here's what you do if you're a Christian. You trust God to define love for you. And by the way, he does in his word and more so than in his word through the person of Jesus Christ when he gave his life at the cross for you and I.

Now that's the first thing. Number two, ultimately, the whole ideology of the LGBT movement, it boils down, it boils the definition of love down to attraction, feelings, and desires. So love in the Bible is not defined as attraction, feelings, and desires. Love happens in the Bible in spite of attraction, feelings, and desires, which is a very different definition of love. And so if a married man sees another woman and feels desire attraction towards her, he cannot say love is love or, man, I was just born this way, or this is how I truly feel inside. Sorry, this is just what I feel. You can't say that.

That's not love. We would call that lust. A lot of what our culture today calls love is actually lust, and there's a difference. Lust is self-centered. Love is sacrificial. lust happens because of emotions and feelings love happens in spite of emotions and feelings love is always asking and how will this benefit or affect me

love is asking how is this true how is this honoring how is this glorifying god and so to the answer or if somebody were to say hey a god of love can't be against relationship of love one let's make sure that we are in the same page regarding the definition of love and how we define love and two god is love he defines it and what our culture calls love

might be actually attraction, feelings, and desires, and even lust, but I would argue it's not really love. Yeah, a couple things. And everyone, amazing. Amazing response. Just a couple of things. When I hear things like this, a good couple things is, hey, if I apply this same logic to other things, does it hold up?

So that's the same thing with the argument of silence. Well, hey, if I apply that to other issues, which I know that the people on the other side would think we're wrong, would they be willing to stand on that same argument? They wouldn't. Same here. And by the way, what I'm about to say is probably to many people are going to be incredibly offensive and if we need to edit it out we can i'll defer to you afterwards so if someone were to say this if someone that was from on the same-sex relationship asked this and i i i'll say this this is not a

question that if you don't have a relationship but you shouldn't ask them but like what i would really want to ask them is okay would you be willing to apply this same standard to an incestuous relationship between a brother and a sister now again i'm telling you right now if for those listening i would not actually ask that to people you know or to strain definitely not to you don't know because it's not going to go well. But that's what I want to ask them. And that may sound like, for someone who hears it like, that's so offensive and you're such a bigot.

Well, I say, well, hey, why are you so narrow-minded that a brother and sister can't love each other romantically? Aren't you the biggest bigot in the room now? In other words, because I think, well, what if they actually do romantically love each other? Why would you have a problem with it? And people could want to pretend they wouldn't, but they do. And I think to your point, basically I'm using this to prove the point, we know that romantic love while a thing that God has created

is actually not always right in every context, and there are lines we should not cross. What happens, though, is people want to draw the lines where they want to draw the line instead of where God wants to draw the line and has drawn the line. Another thing on this, and I actually... Yeah, just one thing on that.

The heart wants what it wants is what people say. Yeah. And sometimes the heart wants something that is hurtful to you. Exactly, exactly. I'm going to read a quote, and then we can go on to the next one, and then it'll help me commend a book

that I would recommend to people. It's just a good resource. I think Rebecca McLaughlin, who wrote this book, Does the Bible Affirm Same Sex Relationships? Incredible book. What I love, by the way, is she is married to a wonderful husband, but she is very honest that she has struggled with same-sex attraction in her life. And so she is not writing this from someone who doesn't know what she's talking about. But she basically goes through and examines a lot of the claims, even some of the ones that

we're talking about today, and it answers them. And she has this quote on this question that I think is so good. deep enduring sacrificial love between believers of the same sex is not only affirmed but commanded in the Bible but it finds its right expression not in the exclusive bond of marriage but in the inclusive bonds of friendship so to your point i'm really just backing up what you're saying which is the idea of yeah we are called to love each other god loves relationships of love but not every type of love for every type of person and every type of situation god wants us to have have deep meaningful friendships of love.

In fact, you could argue, is the only one that is not option in the Bible. I don't have to get married, but I am commanded actually in a sense to have friendships and to love people in that way. There you go. And so, man, we for sure want to have relationships of love, but only within God's parameters. Yeah, but Paul, did you know that the word homosexuality wasn't actually in the Bible until 1946? And you know what?

I also have a video to prove it. Okay. Prove it to me. Trinity, play that video. Oh, the word homosexual was never in the Bible. I wasn't in the Bible till 96 and the word it replaced translates to pedophile

wonder why they did it must be a mystery. What say you, Paul Cunningham? I say that that was really cringy and kind of weird that you would use like a children's musical rhyme to make the point. It was a bit odd. It was a bit odd. It was a bit odd. It's a weird choice,

but okay. Yeah, so the argument here that this person kind of cringially made via a is that before 1946, the word homosexual wasn't used, specifically when it says it, they're referring to 1 Corinthians 6.9. I'll read it for us. And I'm going to read the one that would say homosexuality in it. Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor adulterers, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality. Real quick, when it says that they will not inherit the kingdom of God, this doesn't mean if you've ever struggled or ever stumbled. This is talking about people who are unrepentantantantist

lifestyles and they're not turning away from these things. So what people like the woman in this video are saying is that, hey, that word homosexuality was not in the Bible until 1946. And that is correct. In the sense of the word homosexuality, that as a term was not in the Bible. So the question then is the idea there. Let's put something to rest that was probably the silliest argument in the entire video. And that is actually that this word, or this verse is referring to child exploitation or child molestation, that is literally completely made up. There was actually a word that Paul is writing to the Corinthians, so very much in the heart

of the Greco-Roman world, there is a word that would have been used for that. And the idea is that often at that time, men would have younger boys that they would have same-sex relationships with in an exploitive and molestation way. that word is piterastia or peterostia there's two words pais which is child or boy and then erastase which is lover and so if this is what paul wanted to talk about he had a word that they all would have known and would have said he does not use that word and said he uses a word arsonacoites arsena coates is actually a word or arsonacotia i'm sorry is a word that he made up by combining two words arson which means male or man and by the way, that couldn't refer to males of any age, although typically if it is a child,

it would be if he used Paice or Pida. And then Coit, which means bed. And what Paul is doing here is he is deliberately referring to the Book of Leviticus, where prohibitions against same-sex activity are found in Leviticus 1822 and in 2013. So these two words, so a little context for people who haven't heard this in previous episodes, the original Old Testament was written in Hebrew. it was at one point translated into Greek, and that's called the Septuagin. And so the New Testament is written in Greek, and Paul here is using arson and quite,

which are both words found in Leviticus 1822 and 2013, which are explicit prohibitions against men sleeping with men. And there is no hint whatsoever in the Hebrew of this being about exploitation of children. It literally says, do not lie with another male as you would with a woman. So this is what Paul is referring to. It is not about child exploitation. It is about same-sex behavior. So the English word homosexuality was not found in the Bible until 1946, but obviously the concept.

The concept. In which the Bible was not written in English, but in the original language has been there since they won. Yes. And I have seen other videos. She didn't do it in this one. I've seen other videos and other posts on this where they're like, oh, before 1946, people thought this was exploitation of boys and had nothing to do with same-sex action. And that is literally a made-up lie. That it isn't until very recently that this view has been put forth, that if you go through church history, they always use, they'll actually talk about the sin of sodomy here, which is a reference to Sodom and Gomorra.

They'll talk about same-sex activity. They knew what this was talking about. Plus, here's what I would even want to say. Okay. Like, the point they're trying to make here is that the Bible actually isn't against same-sex acts in relationships. Like, that's what she's trying to say. It's like, oh, this was made up. It's modern people who are against it.

The Bible wasn't against it. Yeah. Okay. And that it was just invented in 1946. If that's true, then why has every Christian in Jew before 1946 believed it was wrong? There you go. If it wasn't created into 1946, then why, until recently, did everyone before then believe it was wrong?

What do they get from scripture? Yeah. Why? Yeah. And it's because they knew exactly what it was talking about. It's only recently that people have made up this made up thing. Yeah. Set me up for the next one.

All right. All right. I've got a video for you. Oh, we got a video. I'm actually going to hold off on what it is, but I've got a good video because we get things like this all the time. You don't know if you're going to get a meme or a video. All right. Questioning my faith in Christianity right now due to three main factors.

Now, this all started because one of my pastors mentioned Leviticus when he was mentioning why homosexuality is a sin. Now, Leviticus also mentions that it's an abomination to eat shellfish to wear mixed clothing and to work at all on the Sabbath. All Christians I know do these three things without a second thought. So first off, looks like that guys in the Carlos Sribes. Raza workout plan. Oh my gosh. Okay. Sorry, I'd like to make you blush as much as you can. You don't bless much as me. But I'm inspired. I need to go to the gym after. There you go. There you go. We can do a workout after this. All right. So this is, this is like basically represents this question. People will say it's inconsistent to follow the Old Testament on same sex regulations

and prohibitions, but not on shellfish. Why are you against same sex acts and relationships, but you're fine with eating shrimp? What would you say? I would say a couple things. One, to this guy. you got to share the routine, the lifting routine, that's one. Two, man, good job in listening to your pastor, talking to your pastor. Well done, I think it's a good question. Yes.

So thank you for sharing that. Ote, is it inconsistent to follow the Old Testament law on same-sex relationships but not on shellfish? No, it's not inconsistent. And we're going to explain why. There's three types of laws in the Old Testament. There's the moral set of laws. There's ceremonial or purity loss.

And then there's the judicial or civil laws. Moral laws, basically anything regarding morality, do not murder, steal, adultery, etc. Ceremonial or purity laws, these are laws that at the time governed Israel's worship and religious rituals, and this includes dietary laws, like shellfish, pork, etc., purification rituals, and more. The judicial or civil laws, these related to property boundaries or inheritance laws or things that pertain to Israel being a nation under God as a theocracy. Hebrews says that Jesus actually fulfilled all sacrificial and ceremonial laws. We would include the dietary laws right there.

So that's one. Judicial or civil laws were given to Israel as a specific nation under God. We are not in that same context. So again, we just Christians don't follow those. And then third thing, we will say we do keep the moral laws because they reflect God's unchanging character. And when you look at the New Testament, we see those moral laws reaffirmed.

And so do not murder is reaffirmed in the New Testament. Sexual morality is reaffirmed in the New Testament. Marriage and gender are reaffirmed in the New Testament. Again, God's moral character does not change. So, no, it's not inconsistent to believe and uphold those and then not necessarily the other ones. That's exactly right. I'd like to think of it like this, is the moral laws in the Old Testament are like a mirror that reflect God's unchanging character.

But then you have, to your point, the ceremonial laws and the purity laws, which include not just laws about shellfish, but these are also all the commands about sacrificing animals and having to do all those kinds of things. Those are more like a telescope that we're looking ahead to Christ. Because then Christ has the whole point in the book of Hebrews is that Christ fulfills that by becoming the ultimate sacrificial lamb. He fulfilled all the law, but then he ultimately fulfilled it by dying for those who break the law, which includes, by the way, you and me. That's good. And we need to make sure and say that at some point in this conversation, though we're interacting a lot with the same-sex arguments, we are just as much sinners in eyes of God, who Christ

died for on the cross, and we needed it just as much. We'll get there in a second, but yes. So again, the moral laws like a mirror that reflects God's unchanging character. Then the ceremonial laws look ahead. Now, another clue, I think, that is in scripture, specifically in Leviticus, that helps us know that same-sex prohibitions are moral laws, and we're not just making this up. In Leviticus 1822, which the verse there says, you shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination.

So very clear, again, the idea of, oh, that was about sexual exploitation. You have to be really far-fetched, and until recently no interpret that way. So very clear. If you go back to the start of the chapter, it says this, you shall not do as they do in the land of Egypt, where you lived, and you shall not do as they do in the land of Canaan, to which I'm bringing you. You shall not walk in their statues. And then it goes on in the chapter, and it talks about all of these things that they are not to do and to do with their bodies.

And so in other words, it's just supposing how he wants them to live based on how people lived in Egypt and how people lived in Canaan. In other words, this wasn't just about, hey, you don't eat shrimp because that'll keep you distinct. This was saying, hey, how they lived in Egypt and how they were living in a canon is abhorrent to me. I don't like it. And now I want you to live in a different way. And then it lists same-sex practices in those. other words, God is giving his universal standard for all times and all places in Leviticus. This is a standing world law that has not changed.

We got one more. And then we're going to talk about kids' shows like Sesame Street and Barney and Looney Tunes doing RGBQ. Yeah, we got a Barney screenshot there. So here's the last one, Paul. Here's a photo. This is a photo of a gentleman saying, 21, I accepted myself the way God made me. And so basically the, yeah, God made me this way.

That's what people will say, Paul, God made me that way. And so what say you? Yeah, God made me this way. And like, why would God give me desires if you didn't want me to act on him is the idea. Here's what I would say that is that since sin entered into the world when Adam and Eve sin, every single person has been born with a sinful orientation. Notice I did not just say every single homosexual person has. I said every single person, including you and I,

we're born with a sinful orientation called a sin nature. It leads us to have desires that are contrary to what God wants his desire and to do, and then to act on those desires and to sin. And so specifically talking about sexuality, I was born with a sinful heterosexual orientation. And here's what I mean about that. It's not that being a heterosexualist, was sinful. It's that from, I was born with desires to not do things that aligned with God's

design. So when I was a teenager and some of those desires that began to awaken, I wanted to do things that God wanted me to wait and do only in the context of marriage with my wife. And if I just said, well, but these desires are from you so it can't be sinful for me to act on him. That would not have been an excuse for me than to act on them. I would have actually been sinning in eyes of God or taking it out of sexuality. Sometimes people, because for whatever reason, maybe it's in their family lineage or whatever, they're born as more of a predisposition or you could say an orientation towards becoming an alcoholic. We would not say, hey, it's okay for them to go and become an alcoholic. No, we'd say, hey, you still have the responsibility to say no to that. So basically what I'm saying

is just because you were born with certain desires doesn't mean those desires are good. Since the fall, people are born with what's called disordered desires. And part of coming to Jesus is both saying, hey, I'm bringing you to the sins I've committed and saying, hey, thank you Jesus for dying for these sins. Would you cover over them? But I'm also bringing him all of my desires and saying, hey, change my desires. So the world says I was born this way. Christ says you can be born again another way in another life that I want for you.

And me coming to him and saying, give me those desires and give me this new life. What would you say? Yeah, I would say, man, just seeing that photo of this guy turning 21 and saying, oh, man, I realized I'm this way. Number one, if I have a friend who, you know, maybe like this guy and they don't know Jesus, my first priority right there is not necessarily to convince him on my worldview on sexuality. If I have a friend who doesn't know Jesus and they're coming out or kind of celebrating their new identity, my first priority is to share the gospel with him and say, man, you know what, let's set aside what you believe about sexuality and what I believe about.

Let's put that aside right now. I love you. you were created by God for God to be in a relationship with God and for the glorious purposes of God and yet you and I are sinners I fell short of the glory of God as Romans 3 and God loved you

that while we were still sinners Christ died for you in your place and if you trust in him he can give you a new life you can be born again not just regarding one particular side of you but literally like your whole life and so I'd start there

and I think that's a mistake that I think a lot of times when some Christians have conversations with non-believers that are proclaiming or sharing their LGBTQ identity or how they relate to that identity. I think the temptation is to try to persuade them on that issue first. But let's how about we address the main issue is that what you said, Paul, we are all sinners. And so if I had that conversation with that person and he said, man, okay, I'm in. I would say, man, would you like to give your life to Christ?

And if he says yes, then then once he is a believer, then I'd say, great, praise God. Now, let me tell you about that new identity that I was talking about. You are no longer defined by your feelings. Jeremiah 179 says that your heart is actually deceitful, which means that your feelings are real, but they're not always reliable. And your feelings will lie to you is what it means. And so what you want to do now that you're a Christian,

you want to ground your identity, not on something that comes and goes or changes with the times. you want to ground your identity on something that will be like an anchor to your soul and that's not your feelings that's who God says you are and your identity is that you are a son and a daughter of God and once

you trust that that is true and that he's a loving father you're going to trust that his ways are better than yours including what God says about your identity regarding your sexuality which by the way your sexuality is not your identity but God has a plan for your sexuality and it's

a good one and his plan is infinitely better than your plan. And so the invitation is for you to trust him that his plan is better. And if you do, and he becomes your Heavenly Father, your decisions, your relationships, your lifestyle, what you do with your attractions, who you marry, how you view your sexuality, your gender, your identity,

everything in your life should flow downstream from that truth and your relationship with a loving God who is your father. That's what I would say. That's so good way. Like, even to summarize what you just said is, it is possible for someone to live in line with God's design for marriage and sexuality and yet fall short of God's ultimate design.

And that's a relationship with Jesus Christ. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That the goal is simply to not to get us and any of us, again, whether heterosexual or homosexual, like, it's not to get us not to sexually sin. It is actually like our greatest need is to live in a relationship with and in submission to Jesus Christ. And so I just, I think that was such a helpful reminder for Christians of, hey, let's not lose the main point here. That's right.

That ultimately we want to point people to and take people to Jesus Christ who can change their life just as much as he's changed ours. Somebody once said, man, homosexuality is not new, right? Homosexuality has been a thing for like literally thousands of years. But some believe that it is the first time in history when homosexuality and all this LGBTQ ideology has been called progress. And so we didn't cover every single one of the things that people will say, But what we would say is if you're listening, be careful in whom you will put your faith in trust in in

in a secular narrative of the world or the biblical narrative of the word because whatever you decide, whichever you put your trust in, that will determine the outcome of your life. Deuteronomy 30, 19, 20. It says, this day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have said before you life and death. Blessings and curses. Now choose life so that you and your children may live and that you may love the Lord your God, to his voice and hold fast to him. Now, having said that, real quick, very brief, Paul, literally like this week, this tweet went super viral, Sesame Street posting happy hashtag Pride Month from Sesame Street.

Join us in celebrating and uplifting the LGBTQIA plus. See, they got all the letters. Members of our community, hearts of all colors. Now, obviously, people see this and they're asking, one, this is not new, obviously, every single We have other samples, Trinity, if you want to pull. We got Looney Tunes here, Happy Pride, Get Your Drag On. We got Bugs Bunny. We got Peppa Pig.

Again, here to celebrate love. Let's go to, there's another one. Okay, Pixar, we're just trying to tell our stories like everybody else. That's it. And we're not going anywhere. Okay. And then we got Blue's Clues here with a drag person. And so people are asking, man, these shows, a lot of these shows are actually geared towards toddlers of, you know, ages two to five.

why are we kind of pushing for teaching them towards something related to sexuality at that age? And again, it went super viral. What do parents need to know or keep in mind when it comes to this conversation? Yeah, I'll start us off. And I'd love to hear just any thoughts of wisdom you have. I mean, one, and it really just speaks to the images we'd have showed, you need to talk about God's design for sexuality early and often. the world is and is going to disciple your kids in it, whether you like it or not.

And so the best is actually to do it early in often in age-appropriate ways. And there's great books and resources. We're, I think, going to put some links to some of them in the show notes and everything in the guide. But yeah, talk about it early and often because you don't want to have to kind of make a comeback on this. You'd rather get ahead and begin forming in them a healthy, sexual view of how God designed things to work. And that's the other thing I would say then is when you're actually beginning to do this, this with your kids and talking about it is the point is to give them a vision for healthy sexuality. In other words, it's not just saying, hey, this is bad or don't do this, but rather,

kind of what I did at the very beginning, Carlos, when you asked me, hey, what does the Bible has to say about this? Paint them a positive victor of God's good and beautiful design. And then, yeah, you may have to contrast that with what the world has said. So there's just a few initial things. I'd be interested to hear the specific details you have. But one is, man, if you are not talking about this with your kids early and talking about it often, I would say get on that right now. But it's both. It's early and often from a young age and age-appropriate ways.

But then also don't assume that just because you've talked about it once, you never have to talk about it again because they're getting bombarded with it, not just in June in a very intensive way, but throughout the year repeatedly. And so talk about early and often. And number two, as you're talking to them about it, don't simply just focus on what God doesn't want us to do. Instead, give them a healthy, positive vision for what he does. does one thing to do and what he has crafted us and made us for.

That's right. What is a guy. Yeah. I mean, every show is a sermon. Yeah. And every show is literally whether you like it or not, disciplining your kids. And so your job as a parent is to calibrate the conscience of your kids, teaching them how to think. The Bible says, woe to those that call evil good and good evil, right?

I think that's in many ways a lot of these shows are calling good evil and evil good. it is our responsibility as parents to say, hey, let me teach you how that is a lie. The Bible says that Satan is a father of lies. The Bible is true. And so we want to use the Word of God what is true to teach our kids, what to identify us.

Like, that's true. That's not true. And so therefore, just something to keep in mind. Also, you want to ask if that is the case, when you watch a show, when you see an episode, you know, we do this at home, we will ask, hey, is this normalizing and glorifying something that God calls sin? And if it is, man, I'm just not sure that I want that for my family.

And so, again, just something to keep in mind. Any other thoughts on that? Yeah, just a few things. I mean, one, even off of what you just said, if you go back to Deuteronomy in that passage you mentioned, it talks about how teach these things to your children when you get up in and then also when you go down to sleep. But then also as you walk along the way. And I kind of like to think of that as, hey,

At home, both in the morning and at night, it was kind of speaking in the totality of your day at home. There's structured times where we can be discipling our kids and getting into God's word together. You can use the app. Even if your kids are older, we've heard more and more stories about people listening to the podcast as a family than discussing it.

I love that, man. It's a great thing. So honestly, even like watching this together, if your kids are probably a little bit in the older range and doing that. Shout out to those people. I talk to families all the time. Literally parents, dads, sons, parents, mom, kids,

like all together as a family, I love that. In addition to our podcast, there's other great ones specifically on issues of sexuality that, again, it can be great to listen to. So in other words, like, don't think you have to be an expert on that is actually one thing I'd say. It's like, hey, lean into that. But then to your point, it's also when it talks about as they're walking along the road, and are they, they'd be like, hey, as you're driving in the car and if there is a huge mural or a thing on Pride Month or something like that, or if they see something in TV, you could choose in that moment to act. Like, they don't see it, but they do see it. And they probably have questions about it. bring it up to them in a non-awkward and non-defensive and non-attacking way.

And be like, hey, what do you think that means? Or like, hey, what does God Word have to say about this? So that would be one thing I'd just say is like just to highlight that. A few of the things like, don't give away your authority as a parent. Don't give away your authority by either delegating everything to a TV show or to things they're listening to or to whatever or to their friends. You maintain authority as their parent. And that includes then helping create clear boundaries of the things that they can watch and consume and the friends that. they have is a crucial one. It's an absolute crud. Do not delegate your authority on this.

With that, do watch their friends and influences. Watch the people that are hanging around with. Watch the things that are influencing them. I'm not trying to advocate for bubble wrapping our kids and not letting them be exposed to anything or to be friends with anyone who doesn't completely agree with this. But do watch who are the closest people in your kids' life? Are they leading your kids closer to God's design or further away from it? If further away from it, you're going need to help them set some good boundaries because your kids aren't going to set it for themselves. Last thing I'll say is this. And it really, I think is out of how you began the conversation in general. Teach your kids how to both know and share truth and show and share love and grace

of both and both. So we don't want to disciple our kids to know a lot about the truth and not about what's wrong and why we don't believe that. And then also go out and be jerks to those who disagree with us. We want to disciple our kids to know the truth. but then also to share the truth, Jesus, his love with people. That's right. On that note, Pastor Paul, would you pray for us? I'd love to. Father, we thank you for the chance to get to talk about these things.

We thank you for the fact that you are a good God who gives good gifts to us. That, Lord, you have designed us as humans. You've given this incredible gift called sexuality, and that's weird for some people to hear, but you have. but you gave it for the God-given context of marriage between a man and a woman. And Lord, I want to pray that you would call more people to that and back to that, away from the false counterfeits that are out there in the world. God, I want to pray that you would help us to, as Christians, be people of truth and people of grace and love. Not in either or, but of both and.

So, God, as we encounter lies that are told to us, I pray that you would help us to take them captive to your truth that is found in your word. But I also pray, Lord, as we interact with people who are same-sex attracted or, or in same-sex relationships, would you help us to show the same level of love that you did towards us as well? God, we want to pray over our anger. Lord, I pray that you would continue to help us become people who are not controlled by our anger, but rather can control it. Lord, help us to look at the things that break your heart and may it break our hearts, but, Lord, help us also not to be people who go past what your anger calls for.

Continue to disciples us and make us whole and help us to live free in the lives you created and saved us to live. In your name we pray. Amen. Amen. They're free, brother. They're free.