Locked On Jayhawks - Daily Podcast On Kansas Jayhawks Football & Basketball - Does Bill Self Have His BEST Lead Guard Group of His Kansas Jayhawks Tenure? | Point Guard Preview

Starting point is 00:00:00 Could this wind up being one of the best lead guard groups that Bill Self has ever had at the University of Kansas? We're going to break that down. And one of the other teams might even compare because Darren Peterson might be pretty good in case you hadn't heard. You are Locked on Jayhawks, your daily podcast on the Kansas Jayhawks, part of the Locked On Podcast Networks. Your team every day. What is going on? Derek Johnson here at D. Johnson Radio on Twitter. This is locked on Jayhawks.

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Starting point is 00:00:52 or anywhere that you get your podcast, thank you for joining us. On today's episode of the show, we're discussing, How does this Kansas guard group, this lead guard group that Bill Self has assembled for the 25-26 roster, how does it compare to some of Bill Self's other bests? And is there a chance at the end of the day? We could be looking back at this being one of the best guard groups that he has ever had. We're also going to kind of break down as part of that, a lead guard position preview going through,

Starting point is 00:01:21 you know, what all the players bring to the table with Darren Peterson on Marco Jackson and so on and so forth with the KU basketball roster. Let's start right there, though, because it sounds a bit hyperbolic, in fact, it probably is to say this is the best guard roster that Bill Self has ever assembled. He's had some pretty good guard rosters so far, but can at least be in the discussion, and is there a pathway for it being the best? That's what I want to discuss here right off the bat. And I think in the preseason, you know, it's much easier to do this because everything is based off potential and you're living in a world where everything's going to be great, right? And then we get to the season, and it's like there's usually some. who's going to disappoint. Could it be a guard? Could it be a wait? You never know, right? And it sounds ludicrous. And obviously preseason hype doesn't matter. It's performance-based.

Starting point is 00:02:07 But hear me out for a second. If the bar, if the expectation, if the potential of Darren Peterson, I mean, okay, some of the quotes the Bill Self has given over Darren Peterson have literally said, like, he is the best freshman I have ever recruited. This is the dude who coached Joel Embed, who's won an MVP in the NBA, who coach Andrew Wiggins, who is the, you know, the second team All-American and a future NBA champion. And, you know, he's coached all sorts of guys who have been won and duns. He's coached guys who have had great college careers. Like, I know he's not saying he's the best Kansas player we've ever had, but it at least

Starting point is 00:02:46 shows he has the highest potential. And if the expectations for Alfred Darren Peterson to have kind of a Cooper flag type of season, Cooper Flagg won national player of the year. If we're talking Darren Peters, there's only been one player that Kansas has had under Bill South that is one, you know, swept the national player of the year. It was Frank Mason. If he can get on to that level, then it will at least put you in the discussion and say, okay, but if he's the best, like, because that's the thing. If Darren Peterson were to win national player of the year, he would literally go down as the best player in Bill South's time at Kansas. Now, obviously, there's a different conversation in college basketball with best career, most accomplished versus individual singular season. right but if we're talking about it from the perspective of if if darren peterson were to go on and win national player of year he would be known as having the greatest individual singular season in k u basketball history again taking out the team success and we'll see how that would do i would imagine if you won national player of the year the team success would probably be there but like point being the tiebreaker

Starting point is 00:03:46 he would have over frank mason would be that okay but he's probably going to go on to nba storm as well right that the potential there is just different and so if we're talking about the potential of this kid is to have that type of season, which, again, it sounds ludicrous and I hate to put that high of expectations, and I'm not saying that's the expectation. It's just, it's in the realm of possibility. Then you at least have to have this discussion, because if you're doing a draft, he would be the number one in that kind of way, right? From there, they have depth, right? You have Melvin Counsel, who, when I say depth, like, I think it's going to be a starter, but just depth in terms of having multiple players you can play this position. I think he could end up being an elite

Starting point is 00:04:24 defender could bring speed transition play for KU, El Marco Jackson, who could certainly break out in year three as a former McDonald's All-American for Kansas. And then the late edition of Ginyu Ingala, a 26-year-old who, you know, at least provides some quickness, ball pressure, scoring if he has to come in at some point in time for KU. Now, to have this proper comparison, we have to bring up what are the other best guard groups at Kansas.

Starting point is 00:04:51 And this isn't just an exercise to compare it. It's also to show you that when Bill Self has really good guard groups, the teams tend to be, A, really fun, B, really good. Okay, so these to me are the, I don't know if I want to say clear, but like, maybe I would say clear, like, top five best. I'm just talking lead guard groups here for Kansas, right? So, like, I'm not counting wing guards. Like, I'm not counting Wayne Selden into the group in 2015, 16. I'm counting him as wing. I'm talking lead guards, guys who can, like, play the point.

Starting point is 00:05:21 Darren Peterson ran out of the game. El Marco Jackson or Melvin Council could play the point. So I'm just counting the guys who can, you know, kind of take over that. And to me, there's five teams that kind of can go into this discussion. It's the obviously, and if you want to say it's the 0607 team and the 07-08 team because it's basically the same core of guys, I'm cool with that. But you have Mario Chalmers, Russell Robinson, Sharon Collins, that team or that little era. And then you have Roderick Stewart as kind of the Ginnue.

Starting point is 00:05:51 in Gala role, so to speak, for Kansas, although he might have been more in the rotation than Angola will be. We'll wait and see. That one's going to be tough to beat, right? You're talking about a team of one national championship. You're talking about a team that had a little bit of everything. 2010 is strong, too. You have Sharon Collins and Tyshaun Taylor. I mean, that's two guys who collectively had three All-American seasons at Kansas, not as much depth, though, at the point guard spot for that one, but that's a really strong one, too. I think 2016, 2017 is the this generation's gold standard, right? And not as much depth as well with Devanti Graham and Frank Mason, like who else is

Starting point is 00:06:26 there behind it? Kind of similar to Sharon and Taichhan, but, you know, that is a gold standard there. If we are going to include Malik Newman, like he's one of those guys where it's like, Malik Newman's not a wing. I don't know that I would call him a lead guard, but I guess you could. If you did, you would have that as a conversation because then you would have Devante Graham, Malik Newman. Same with LaGerald Vic.

Starting point is 00:06:45 Like, do you consider he's not a lead guard? I wouldn't, I don't know. La Gerald Vick. might classify more as a wing. And then you have on that 2017-18 team, it's like with Marcus Garrett, he eventually finished his career as a point card. But that first year in 17-18, he was used more as a wing. So like 17-18 team, you'd probably be looking at Devante and Malik Newman. And then the 1920 team, when Garrett was more of a point card, you would have Marcus Garrett and Devon Dotson. That was really, I mean, Devon Dotson was second-team All-American.

Starting point is 00:07:13 Marcus Garrett was a defensive player of the year. So those are the five to me that, that really, really stick out in having this conversation. Again, we're just talking to lead guards, right? I'm not counting like, if you were to look at the 21-22 team, like, O-Chagbosje enemy would count as a wing. It wouldn't count as a lead guard. So part of it is personal preference. What are you counting these guys as?

Starting point is 00:07:33 But those are the five. And to me, it really comes down to the 0708 team. It's hard to be like, like, okay, if you're comparing 0708 to 2010, you'd be like, oh, you have a better version of Sharon Collins in 2010. But, you know, I'm taking Mario, Chalmers and Rush Rob over just Taishon, right? I think Frank Mason and Devonte Graham, again, being kind of a gold standard and then Dotson and Garrett. Like, those to me are the big three. So I think if you're if you're looking, for example, let's say the 0708 core is your, the one you

Starting point is 00:08:06 want to compare to or the 1617 with Devonte and Frank compared to this team. The way that this guard group winds up being as good or better as those win a national championship, that would help. But no, it's from an individual player's perspective, Peterson wins national player of the year. That would put you on par with what Frank Mason did. And then obviously from an individual accolade perspective, the 0708 team doesn't have the one guy. Like, it eventually had Sharon Collins be an All-American twice. Mario Chalmers and Russ Rob were in All-Americans. Part of that was just that team was so loaded that everything was a little bit more balanced.

Starting point is 00:08:41 But that one just has an incredible depth with those three guys. I think if Peterson was the national player of the year, then you'd be looking at, okay, on the 16th, 17 squad, you had Frank Mason win national player of the year. Devante Graham was still like a, I don't know if he actually won an award for it, but you probably caliber of being like, you know, because of the stats, impact wise, is probably more impactful than this, probably like a third team, all big 12 type of guy, maybe a second team, something like that. So that's where you got to go. Can Peterson a national player of the year? Can one of a Marco Jackson or Melvin council, can they get

Starting point is 00:09:13 it like an all big 12 third team, all big 12 honorable mention type season? Can the, Other one get like an all big 12 defense type season, right? Let's say that Marco Jackson breaks out and can be an all big 12 honorable mention pick, and he is a solid season. And then let's say Melvin Council is all big 12 defense. So you're like, okay, that's the comparison to Russ Robb. Darren Peterson's better than any of Chalmers, Russ Robbers, Ron Collins. I know that sounds crazy to say, but again, in this hypothetical, he won national player

Starting point is 00:09:43 of the year. And then you can say how Marco Jackson was, you know, he was an all big 12 honorable mention that's similar to one of those guys, and then Ingala is similar to Roderick Stewart. That's how we get to that point in time. And those things are asking high expectations of all of those people, but like, it's not that crazy. The expectation on Peterson is to be one of the five or ten best players in the country. So asking him to win national player of the year, it's not like that big of a stretch, right?

Starting point is 00:10:06 Asking O'Marco Jackson to break out and be all big 12 honorable mention. That's not that big of a stretch. Asking Melvin Council, who I think, you know, might wind up being the best perimeter defender on Kansas, which could be one of the best defenses in the country. to be all big 12 defensive team like that's not asking too much so i do think that they could very mo wind up in this conversation by the end of the season and as we go back and look at all those teams oh 708 won the national title a 607 if you want to look at that same core made the elite eight uh 2009 to 2010 was charon and titan yeah i lost in second round in northern iowa that sucked

Starting point is 00:10:38 but it was the best team in the country all year long they were in the number one overall seat 2016 2017 elite eight right 2017 2018 final four 2019 202020 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 20 team in the country. So I think once again, we kind of chalked this up into being like, hey, KU's going to have pretty good guard play this season. And I think that's going to make them pretty good underbell self. And I think some national people continue to kind of underrate where they're at. All right, let's specifically preview some of these individual players and how it all fits together, possible roles next. Today's episode of Locked on Jayhawks is brought to you by Fan Dual Sportsbook. And you can get in early on the KU basketball.

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Starting point is 00:12:12 bet wins. Open at the Fandwell app today or visit fandwell.com to get started. Thanks for joining us on this episode of Locked on Jayhawks. Again, don't forget, you can check out Locked on College football or Locked on College Basketball for your second listen every day. All right, so let's take a look at this lead guard position for KU. So the starters, Darren Peterson, he basically depends how do you view Darren Peterson? Because, you know, some people say, okay, you are what you're guarding. And on the defensive end, I think there's going to be times that Darren Peterson's guarding

Starting point is 00:12:41 the other two man. I think there's going to be times where he's guarding the opposing three man. I think there's going to be times or maybe if Trey White's out of the game, like, is he guarding the opposing four man, right? Do you play basically a four-guard lineup where on offense you're running four guards around one, but Peterson's basically the four on defense.

Starting point is 00:12:58 That wouldn't shock me if that happened. But on the offensive end, I think he's going to be the primary initiator for KU, but he's 6'5, 195 pounds, 610 wingspan. These were his stats last year, obviously at the high school level, 30.4 points per game, 7.2 rebounds per game,

Starting point is 00:13:13 7.4 assists per game, 2.2 steals per game. on 52% from the field, 86% at the foul line. So you look at his position and role on the team. Like I said, kind of point guard on offense, the three, a wing defender on defense. I think his role, unquestioned leader, best player on the team, obviously, you expect that to play huge minutes. And we've seen Bill Self ride his guys, you know, 34, especially the guards, 34, 35, 35, 36 minutes

Starting point is 00:13:37 per game. If all these players that we think could possibly play a role for KU end up performing at high level. Maybe you can keep Peterson down to 32 minutes. But if Bill Self doesn't trust those guys enough, then Peterson will be end up playing, you know, 36 minutes per game or something like that for KU. And I think the, when you look at the floor outcome, the ceiling outcome, I think I just want to talk sealing and most likely here. But ceiling outcome, I think for him is the best player in the country and national player of the year, which you can get a plus 850 over a handle. But the most likely outcome, I mean, it might be the ceiling one. Honestly, the most likely actually might be that he is the best

Starting point is 00:14:11 player in the country, right? And there's a world where he actually is the best player in the country and doesn't win national player of the year. Like, you see that sometimes. Like, you know, if Purdue ends up having the number one team in college basketball in Kansas is number eight. And it's like, Brayden Smith's putting up really good numbers. And it's like, realistically, are you taking Darren Peterson to Brady? Braden Smith's a fantastic player. I like Braden Smith. But it's like, you know, and Darren Peterson could be putting up 18, six and five. Braden Smith could be putting up 14 and 10. And it's like, but he's on the number one team of the country and you're going to, you know, they're going to give it to Braden Smith.

Starting point is 00:14:41 but like I think the at the very least like ceiling you're talking top 10 player in the country Andrew Wiggins is a second team all American therefore top 10 player in the country right and to put a little less pressure and lower the insanely high bar that we've been talking today like let's say at least first team all big 12 who's yeah one of the 10 or 15 best players in the in the nation but like here's what I find interesting to raise the hype meter again um to get an idea like statistically what could it look like I yeah obviously part of your statistics are going to be based on what other people do, specifically your points, if KU has a lot of other guys who are stepping up and scoring, Peterson might average a little bit more assists and he might be able to, at certain

Starting point is 00:15:20 times, the game defer to average 15 or 16. But if Kansas doesn't have a lot of other go-to scoring options, maybe he does have to average closer to 20 points per game. But this is what I found interesting. Again, continuing with that Andrew Wiggins comparison as a former like big time one and done. Wiggins for KU average 17.1 points, 5.9 rebounds per game. Those are obviously very good numbers. What did Wiggins do in high school? His last year of high school, 23.4 points per game, 11.2 rebounds per game, 2.5 assists per game, 2.6 block per game. Those are fantastic numbers for Andrew Wiggins. But if we go back to, if you remember me talking about Darren Peterson's high school numbers, Peterson average 30.4 points per game. Wiggins was a 23.4. That's a big jump in points per

Starting point is 00:16:05 game. Theoretically, Peterson might be ready made to be a better score. Now, Wiggins obviously better rebound numbers, but Peterson averaged three times the assist per game as Andrew Wiggins. And Peterson has better shooting percentages and stuff like that. So I think there's a real chance that Peterson gives you at least 18 points per game for Kansas this year. And like, is it possible? He puts up 20 points and four and a half assists, four and a half rebounds per game. Like, I think that's very much entirely possible. And if those are the numbers, again, that's first team All-American National Player of the Year's type stuff. Way to lower the bar, Derek. Okay, Melvin Counsel Jr. is another guy that I view as a probable starter.

Starting point is 00:16:40 at this point in time for KU, 6'4, 180 pounds. No idea what the wingspan is, but I'd imagine it's a plus wingspan. I don't know if it's plus five, but probably at least plus two or something. It seems like a lengthy kid. But last year, 37 minutes per game for Melvin Council. You know Bill self-loves that, because again, as we said earlier, if he doesn't feel like he can trust a lot of guys and he does trust you, you will play a lot of minutes.

Starting point is 00:17:02 He's going to feel like he can play Melbourne Council a lot of minutes. 14.6 points per game, 5.4 rebounds, 4.1 assist, 2.1 steals on 43. half from the floor, 30 from 3, 82 at the foul line. So I think his role on the team, at times you're going to be playing the one, the two, and the three, kind of all throughout there, the defensive stopper on the perimeter, somebody who can get steel, somebody who can cause chaos, get out and transition for you, push transition play. And honestly, somebody who can create another shot for you, right?

Starting point is 00:17:30 He might not be the most efficient player in the world, but he can create his own shot, right? like Cole Rosario is probably going to have a better effective field goal percentage than Melvin Council. But how often are you going to have Col Rosario creating when there's four on the shot clock? Melvin Council might be in charge of doing that for KU a little bit more. And that's something I think he'll be able to do. I think the ceiling outcome for him is playing like 35 minutes per game. That trust level, the circle of trust, the trust tree with Bill self, being the team's

Starting point is 00:17:58 best perimeter defender. And I think the ceiling outcome probably also looks at him shooting like his career best from three. now what would that realistically be 33, 34%, but like we know he's not somebody who's only taking one or two threes per game. So 33, 34% would actually be very adequate to get that done from the outside. I think the most likely outcome may be playing between 25 to 30 minutes per game, being a positive defender, being an extra ball handler, impacting the team in a positive way, like maybe not a superstar, but it's also the mentality thing. We know that if it ain't,

Starting point is 00:18:30 if you're in a dog, you dog food type of thing, like being a fan favorite, those types of things. And I think maybe from a statistic output, like maybe it looks like something more like, I don't know, seven to ten points per game, four rebounds, three assists, one and a half steals per game on on similar shooting splits the last year, which would be certainly a nice season for him if he could do that. And then the last guy who I view as a starter is El Marco Jackson, six foot three, hundred ninety-five pound. Definitely a guy who I view is having a plus wingspan. Don't have it registered, though. Again, did not play last year with the injury that he was out for the years.

Starting point is 00:19:01 year prior as a true freshman, 19 minutes per game, 4.3 points, 1.4 rebounds, 1.7 assist, 0.8 steals. He did that on 40.6% from the floor, 27% from 3, 77 at the foul line. Now, the free throw shooting suggests there is some good touch there. The three-point shooting, I think, is going to go up. It needs to go up. But how much is it going to go up? And that's where the ceiling outcome comes in. I think the role you look at him playing on the team, he's either going to be the first guard coming off the bench or he's going to be a starter.

Starting point is 00:19:32 I think right now I have him in the starting category. I think somebody you view as being strong defender, another extra ball handler. I think somebody who can score on drives. And I think the idea of Velmarco Jackson, too, is somebody who will be able to create his own shot, especially driving and using that athleticism to get to the rim. And so I do think the ceiling outcome, to me, mostly comes down to how much does the game slow down to him and how much, how well is he shooting from three point range? Because I do think we've seen him be a good athlete and, you know, be a,

Starting point is 00:20:00 a really good defender on on that end of the floor. So I think the most likely outcome, probably playing somewhere between 22 and 28 minutes per game, just depending on the variety of those things, but definitely having a big role on this team. And again, the hope is not only that he has a positive impact on this year's team, but also that he shows enough flashes that coming into the 26, 27 season,

Starting point is 00:20:22 when Darren Peterson's off as, you know, in the NBA and stuff, that you feel like El Marco could be a superstar that following year for KU. One guy to get to in this lead guard group, Gingu and Gala. What could his role possibly be and what's stealing outcome next? Thanks, joining us on this episode of Lockdown Jayhawks. Again, how does this KU Guard group compare and kind of a guard preview here? The last guy we have to get to is Ginew and Gala. Now, maybe El Marco Jackson or Melvin Council ends up coming off the bench.

Starting point is 00:20:56 If Jaden Dawson or Cole Rosario beats one of them out, whether it's at the beginning of the year or later into the season or, you know, Bill Self decides later into the year, hey, we really need the shooting of Jaden Dawson or Cole Rosario. We're going to throw him into the starting lineup. So one of our Marco or counsel comes off the bench. But I think either way, those guys would be in a role and in the rotation. With Genu and Gala, I think it's more fighting for, are you going to be in the rotation?

Starting point is 00:21:19 It's going to be spot minutes or are you not really going to be on the floor much at all. So he's 5 foot 11, 180 pounds. Last year playing in Canada, 14 and a half points per game, 4.4 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1.3 steals on 40 and a half percent from the floor, 38.3 percent from 3 and 76.4 percent from the foul line. So I think you look at the position and the role in the team. Somewhere between what Digi Koi was last year for Kansas, which I think is on the higher end of the spot minute guys, slash Joe Yesafu. I kind of like that comparison for what he could do. And Yesafu was, you know, somebody who was kind of fringe rotation as well.

Starting point is 00:21:55 And somewhere between those guys, I guess Jalen Coleman lands as well. somewhere between those guys at the higher end outcome where you are kind of a fringe spot minute guy to the lower end of the outcomes is I think Noah Shelby, the guy that you kind of came on to replace as a transfer where Shelby wasn't really part of the rotation but you are one of the teams better three point shooters, right?

Starting point is 00:22:16 And so I think the sealing outcome is he comes in and KU's like, hey, we are going to use this guy as like an eighth or ninth man. He provides some scoring park off a spark off the bench. He can hit threes at a high level. he provides good ball pressure on the defensive end he brings some veteran experience off the bench like that's kind of the ceiling outcome for me here um i think the most likely outcome is that the eighth or ninth man are probably going to more like col risario simis calderone you know those types of guys and he's more of a spot minute guy or playing in blowouts or at the end of games but he you know maybe has a couple games where he gets a couple threes for you that can help swing a game or his veterans presence and his practice and scout team ability really really help you from that level of things. That's kind of how I view it. But maybe you end up with more from him. And that would certainly be a positive from KU because he is a good three point shooter and you need more of that on the floor. But overall, I really like this lead guard group for

Starting point is 00:23:11 KU. How could you not? Because Darren Peterson is part of it, right? Now, if it didn't have Darren Peterson, you would be asking the question, okay, who's going to be, you know, the guy here? But the beauty of having Darren Peterson is everything fits a little bit better, right? You might have question. If Melvin Council was asked to be your star guard, you might be like, okay, is he going to be able to be efficient enough. But now in his specific role, because you have Darren Peterson, it's like, oh, I love, you know, that type of mentality and that type of defense that he brings to the table. So overall, I feel like this guard position is an improvement from last year. It's definitely easy to say that right now, because hindsight 2020, looking back on what the guard position ended up

Starting point is 00:23:45 being for KU last season. But, you know, when you have Darren Peterson, when you have that level talent, it just, it doesn't feel crazy to say. It's not doing a lot of projecting on my end of things. It's Yeah, it feels like that's going to kind of be the case. So really excited to see this guard group in action. Really, the guys that you want to see the jump for, what is Melvin Council going to look like, what is El Marco Jackson going to look like? And obviously, you want to know, just how good Darren Peterson's going to be.

Starting point is 00:24:10 Is it going to be the 12th best player in the country or the best player in the country? There is a range there. But either way, you feel like he's going to be really good. At the very least, this guard group is going to be better than it was maybe the last couple of years for KU. All right, that'll do it for this episode of Lockdown, Jayhawks. You can find our show anywhere you get your podcast, including on our YouTube page where you can like and subscribe to the show. We'll see you tomorrow talking K-State and other KU opponents with an early preview for the KU football season.

Starting point is 00:24:33 See you then.

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