Locked On Jayhawks - Daily Podcast On Kansas Jayhawks Football & Basketball - STORIES FROM THE PHOG: New Book Reveals Stories from Kansas Basketball Players, Coaches & History

Starting point is 00:00:00 We all know that KU basketball is a very historic program, but sometimes you don't get to know all the stories. Well, we're going to learn some more of those stories in a couple months, but also maybe learn a couple of those. Today, Shalon David is going to join us, who has a book releasing in October called Stories from the Fog. You are locked on Jayhawks, your daily podcast on the Kansas Jayhawks part of the locked on podcast network your team every day what's going on derrick johnson here this is locked on jayhawks thanks for making it your first listen every day thank you that every dayers catching each and every episode of the show we are free and available anywhere you get your podcasts including on our youtube page where you can like and subscribe to the show

Starting point is 00:00:52 and on today's edition we're going to talk a little k u basketball we're going to be talking some fun this stuff with shalon david who is the author of the up upcoming book, Stories from the Fog. You're not going to want to miss this in October. So we're going to learn some, maybe some history here about KU basketball over the past handful of decades. First, before we get into any of that, today's episodes brought to you by Fanduel. Football season is right around the corner. Visit the Fandwell app today and start placing your future bets or planning them today. So Shalon, thank you for hopping on you. I'm really looking forward to the book here, which is coming out in a couple months now in October. I'll just

Starting point is 00:01:27 leave you kind of an open forum to get things started like just kind of tell us about the book yeah so um the book stories from the fog 40 years of kansas basketball it traces kansas basketball since i first started watching and my very first basketball game was 1982 um ted ellens was a coach um we weren't quite a strong a program back then and we played missouri um they're they were really their top 10 team And we ended up losing by one point at Allen Fieldhouse. And for me, it's kind of a life-changing moment. I just fell in love with Kansas basketball, the atmosphere, the arena, the players. I just wanted to be associated with it.

Starting point is 00:02:10 And so, you know, I became a huge Kansas basketball fan. I grew up in Lawrence, so I was able to go quite big games. And I actually even hung out at the Fieldhouse. When they had some great teams, those 86, 88, final four teams, So I go to the field house, shoot around with the team sometimes, even play pickup games. So kind of had behind the scenes look a little bit of the players. And then even though I'd moved around a bit, you know, I moved to Seattle for about 10 years, I've lived in some other places.

Starting point is 00:02:38 I've always followed Kansas basketball. And then I came back about 15 years ago and continued to follow Kansas basketball. And I think one of the things that I love about the program is that no matter where you're at, If you're in Kansas, you know, an isolated community or a smaller rural community, or if you're in New York City or wherever you might be, there's always other Jayhawk fans to connect with. So it's been fun to share the journey with a lot of other people throughout the years. So, I mean, I'd imagine a lot of nuggets in the book, whether it's from players, coaches, you got to interview or talk to a lot of different people.

Starting point is 00:03:13 Do you have like a favorite story or maybe anecdote that, you know, it could be something you knew about, but you just got to learn more details about, or maybe something you had no idea about that you're real looking forward to people being able to read about in October. Yeah, yeah, a few things. For me, Larry Brown was kind of an idol, you know, the great coach,

Starting point is 00:03:31 coached Kansas for five years, Hall of Fame coach. I think he's still the only coach to lead a college team and a professional team at a championship. And I was hoping I'd be able to interview him, but he's a hard guy to get hold of. So, you know, I reached out to him a number of times,

Starting point is 00:03:47 and he finally called me one evening. And, you know, I asked And what he remembers most about Allen Fieldhouse in his first experience. And he has a really photographic memory. He has told me back in the, I think it was in the early 1960s, North Carolina, where he played, went on his swing through the Midwest, and they played, I think, his Kansas case date and Creight within like a three-day period. And he said, you know, he didn't play very much. And the coach, Franklin McWire, tapped him in to come in with a few minutes left in the game.

Starting point is 00:04:22 And he was nervous. And he said he had these warmups on, but they're on like the zippers like they have now. You know, the terroids, there are clasps. And so he's struggling to get his warmups off. And it cost him a couple minutes of playing time. And, you know, it's towards end of the game anyway. And then I asked him what his favorite moment memory of being at Kansas was. And I thought it'd probably be, you know, after winning the championship in 88 or.

Starting point is 00:04:46 you know, one of those epic games against Oklahoma or K-State or Missouri. But he said is a press conference. And way he remembers is, you know, Dean Smith had always told him about the program and how great it was. And when he was announced as the University of Kansas coach, he viewed it as such an honor. And, you know, it's where James Nath Smith, the first coach of the program, Fogg Allen, perfected his craft. And John McClendon, another person that a lot of people aren't familiar with, but a groundbreaking. and he broke a lot of barriers as an African-American coach. And Larry Brown actually idolized John McClendon.

Starting point is 00:05:25 So all those things kind of rushed to him as he's been introduced as a coach. And so that's a little bit surprising as the introductory press confidence rather than the games that he's involved in. Was there something that you learned in doing this and talking to these, you know, former, I don't know, KU legends, so to speak, like, is there anything you learned about the program or maybe just like, I don't know, about a player or a coach that you maybe had no idea going into this. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:52 Well, Devante Graham is one of the players I interviewed. He's always been on my favorite players, both on the court and off the court. I think he represented the university so well. And I kind of forgot, but he wasn't a heralded recruit at all. He, coming out of his junior year, he is recruited by some kind of lower level schools, and he signed with Appalachian State and couldn't get out of his agreement. And I kind of forgot about that. And he was saying how, you know, he never thought you to have a chance to play at a program like Kansas.

Starting point is 00:06:24 And when he came for the first time to take his visit, there wasn't a game when he visited. But you remember it's just being in the empty arena and looking at the banners and kind of visualizing his name being up there sometime. And then also, you know, he grew so much from a freshman to when he was a senior. year. You know, he played a little bit as freshman year, contributed more and more as the years went on. But his senior year, you know, he was a great, great player, candid for all American honors. And he vividly remembers the senior speech before the last game. And it's kind of interesting to see behind the, behind the curtains look at how people prepare for the senior speech. And first, you know, they have to win the game. They haven't lost a senior home game for,

Starting point is 00:07:09 I think 45 years or so. But the pressure that they placed on is two in the athletes. And then, you know, you have 16,000 plus people, you know, waiting on your every word. And so he practiced a little bit, but basically he decided to wing it. And, you know, he got pretty emotional. He actually started trying, coached self, started trying. And he said, you know, he went home after the game and he was going to his girlfriend's place. And he kind of broke down a little bit just because he knew as a last time he was ever going to play a down in Fieldhouse.

Starting point is 00:07:36 And he knew how special a moment that was. was. So kind of not only on the court moments, but also something behind the scenes looks at what players go through. Now, you mentioned obviously the Larry Brown phone call. Outside of that, you also, you know, in some of the lead up to the book, it mentions encounters with like Danny Manning, and Roy Williams, Bill Self. Was there somebody, I guess, outside of Larry Brown that maybe you were most nervous to talk to? Yeah. I'm trying to think. I actually, Actually, there's a few, Kevin Harlan, the announcer. You know, I see him all the time on football, NFL, NBA, NCAA, basketball as well.

Starting point is 00:08:22 And so I was a little bit nervous to speak with him. And he was actually in a car. He was going to a game when I interviewed him. So I was trying to make sure I asked all my questions in a pretty short amount of time. But he gets some great responses. And this is another thing I learned. And fresh out of KU, he went to KU to pursue a broadcasting degree. And Fresh Out College, his first year, he got hired to be a Kansas City

Starting point is 00:08:45 King's announcer when the Kings were in Kansas City. And then a year after that, he was hired to be the KU announcer. You know, right when Larry Brown was there. So he was like a 23-year-old kid announcing the KU games. So it was interesting to talk to him and the perspective that he had. And I didn't really realize this. But after he announced to KU, he announced in Missouri for a silver year. so he's able to give a perspective of that rivalry

Starting point is 00:09:07 and it's not that there's memorable moments between those two schools when they played every year. I'm trying to think of another one. Oh, Dr. Mark Allen, too. He's the grandson of Fogg Allen, very prominent family in Lawrence. He lives in Kansas City now, but that has a little bit nerve-wracking too

Starting point is 00:09:25 just because he knew so much about the history of the program and obviously about Fog Allen. And I met him for coffee in person. And I was kind of expected to be in a 20-minute, 25-minute interview. But we ended up speaking for about an hour and a half. So, and that's one of the things I found is when people started talking about Kansas basketball in their experience, they really enjoyed it. And sometimes interviews are supposed to be pretty short, but they lasted a lot longer than expected. Awesome.

Starting point is 00:09:57 Well, I want to keep going. I want to get maybe some Fogg Allen stories. And I don't know if there was any funny comments or stories. We'll get to all that and more, as well as more on the book. In just a moment, this is locked on Jayhawks. Today's episode of the show is brought to you by Wayfair. As summer winds down, there's something nice about getting back into the routine you love. And Wayfair makes it easy to set yourself up for the season ahead.

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Starting point is 00:11:17 called Stories from The Fog. So I tease it a little bit on the other side. Was there a funny story? Like, I don't know, whether it was a comment or just anything funny that you learned from maybe a player or coach that you know maybe adds a little bit of a laugh to the book yeah um well there's a few and i'll start with you mentioned fog allen so i'll throw a couple fogg allen stories and then go to a player

Starting point is 00:11:42 story as well but um i interviewed one of the original architects for allen fieldhouse his name's warren corman um he's 98 years old now sharp as attack too yeah he is yeah you're familiar with them yeah sharp as attack um so he's hired in 1952 and he's a junior architect on on the team And he told me his stories about how Fogg Allen, and this tells you how hands-on Fug-on was. The architects were based in Topeka, and every Friday afternoon or Saturday morning, Fug Allen would go to Tepka and kind of see the progress. And he was intent on Allen Fieldhouse being twice as large as Ahern Fieldhouse in Manhattan. And so he'd come every week to make sure Warren had there to be at least 17,000 people.

Starting point is 00:12:24 And Warren said, yeah, if we didn't have 17,000 people, he was going to raise absolute hell. And then Dr. Mark Allen, his grandson told me how adamant Fog Allen was about not having 10-foot goals. He wanted the goals to be 12 feet. He thought just dunking wasn't very, you know, it wasn't elegant, you know. It was just because somebody had a hide advantage, basically. So he even experimented with 12-foot goals in the 30s. They played a couple exhibition games against K-State. And then, you know, right, when he was getting ready to retire,

Starting point is 00:12:59 Will Chamberlain came in and he was going to prove the NCAA wrong because Will Chamberlain was just going to dunk every single time. He was forced to retire right before that happened, but that's kind of a funny story too. And then in terms of players, David Magley, he was a

Starting point is 00:13:17 really good player in the late 70s, early 80s. And he didn't know what to expect when he came. He was actually Mystery Indiana in the state of Indiana for basketball. And it sounded previous winners of that or like Clint Robinson, Steve Alfred.

Starting point is 00:13:34 Got one now in Flory Bedunga. Oh, yeah, yeah. Good trivia, yeah. So some great players have been given that honor. He just kind of lost when he came. He was a freshman. He kind of expected things to be handed to him a little bit. And he went to the field house as August, you know, sweltering heat.

Starting point is 00:13:52 And he did some, you know, played scrimmage with the rest of the team. And then after the scrimmage, he saw Darnell, Valentine, doing sprints. And Magley asked him, you know, why are you in sprints, man? Did you get in trouble? And Valentine said, no, you know, I'm working this hard because I'm going to go to a place that you're never going to go. And Magley said, well, where's that? And Valentine said to NBA. And darn out Valentine did play 10 years in NBA. But Magley took that as a kind of call to action and decided he's going to outwork everybody on the team and, you know, progressed to be a second round draft pick and played an NBA for a little bit. And another story, Ryan Robertson on the great 97 team.

Starting point is 00:14:34 A couple stories that struck me. First, you know, he was from Missouri, the Stead, Missouri. So whenever they went to the Missouri arena, he'd usually get a pretty good ribbing from the antlers. So he's telling me a story once he went out there to warm up. And you saw somebody holding up a poster that said, call Ryan for a good time. You know, you didn't tell a whole lot of attention to it. I think he looked a little bit closer and it had his actual number on it. And so he said, you know, we won that game and I actually didn't get any calls that time.

Starting point is 00:15:03 But Danlers were pretty creative. He also, and, you know, longtime Kansas fans will remember this. But when we lost Arizona in 97, Jared Haas was injured and Brian Robertson was his roommate. And he said, Jared was in such pain the night before. You know, he was crying because there's in such so much pain and basically tried to play with one arm. And that's one of the reasons, you know, they didn't end up being Arizona because Haas was kind of a spiritual leader. And, you know, he wasn't all to play very much. And, you know, Arizona had a really good team as well.

Starting point is 00:15:39 But I've always told people, you know, we did Arizona nine out ten times if we played each other. And Robertson said he gave Arizona a little bit more credit. And they did have a really good team. But he said, Kee would probably win seven or eight out ten times. So it's kind of interesting to get that feedback as well. Yeah, the picking up old wounds there. No, I'm curious. So you mentioned talking with Mark Allen.

Starting point is 00:16:01 So that makes sense getting some of the stories from Fog Allen. How on earth did you go about getting stories about James Naismith? Yeah. So I just did Google search. I was looking for descendants of James Naismith. And some of the ones associated with the Q program that passed away. But his, I think it's his great niece has helped to get hold of. And he emailed her and she said, yeah, I'd be happy to.

Starting point is 00:16:26 to talk a little bit about James May Smith. And so her fondest memory was when they enrolled the rules of basketball, when David Booth purchased that and they unveiled it at a half time, I think it was like Kansas, Kentucky game. She came back for that. And she said she was brought to tears just because she knew that that's where the rules of basketball should be. And she, you know, that's probably where Dr. Nathan would have won it. You know, it's where he's buried.

Starting point is 00:16:56 And he also said that she'd be, he'd be really impressed with the athleticism of today's athletes. And she thought that he'd be impressed with her dunking ability. And, you know, Fogg Allen didn't like the dunks, but she thought that Naismith would actually like that. And Nate Smith was a, you know, true pioneer. And college basketball wasn't nearly as popular when he was around it. It didn't become an Olympic sport until I think 1936. And so he wasn't a wealthy man, but there was a bunch of people that actually raised money for him. go to that first Olympics kind of like crowdsourcing is fundraising is nowadays people used to put

Starting point is 00:17:33 money in the jar at church so he could go to the first Olympics and he said that that experience was more valuable than any kind of financial gift that you could have ever received do you have you have a favorite KU game or maybe a short list of some of the favorite games and I guess what are some of the classic games maybe that are mentioned throughout the book yeah so I'll start with Sunday Fieldhouse games. What I remember is just in the mid-80s, the classic duels against Oklahoma when they had Wayne and Tisdell and the team they ended up beating in the 88 championship. So I just remember all those games seemed to be classics.

Starting point is 00:18:13 A lot of them went down to the wire. There's certainly the 1993 game against Indiana where Jock Faden hit the three-pointer. A lot of people's favorites, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And people, I interviewed. Brian Haney, the announcer. He said that was one of the loudest moments that's ever been in the field house. Certainly that game against Missouri in 2012 right before Missouri went to the FCC and we came back from, I remember the exact number, but it was like 16 or something in the

Starting point is 00:18:42 second half. And T. Rob had that, Thomas Robinson had that block at the very end of the game. And that was a really memorable one. And then the triple over time game against Oklahoma when Buddy Hilled, I think he had 46 points. That was an instant classic. I think it was the number one, number two teams going out of that game. And then a couple of games that weren't at the fieldhouse. I've had the privilege of attending the 2018 Elite 8 game versus Duke in Omaha. And that was one of those back and forth.

Starting point is 00:19:14 I think the lead was never more than seven points for their team. And Suey hit at three at the very end of tie it. And then Crason Allen took a shot as a buzzer sound. You remember it rolling around the rim and it looked like it's going to go in. And I asked Bill Seltz about that. And he said, he was going to play in the whole game because the rims were too tight and the ball had too much here. And then he said, I was so glad that those two things were true because otherwise that shot would have gone in. And then my favorite kick a game of all time was the 2020 championship game in New Orleans against North Carolina.

Starting point is 00:19:50 And I had the privilege of taking my oldest daughter, who's now a sophomore to you, to that game and, you know, great bonding experience, but also, you know, very memorable weekend. And it looked pretty bleak at half time. And, you know, we made a quick run at the beginning of the second half, but then at the end it was kind of going back and forth again. But that was just such an exciting moment to be a lifelong key fan and finally be able to see a championship in person.

Starting point is 00:20:16 It's a bucket list. And it's one of those things you can't plan. Even if you go to the final four, it's, you never know what's going to happen. So I was fortunate. it, but that was probably my favorite key moment of all time. All right. I want to get to some final stories here and a little bit more on the book to finish up. We'll be right back in a moment with Locked on Jayhawks.

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Starting point is 00:21:29 Thanks for joining us again on Locked on Jayhawks and joined by Shalon David here. So kind of some final things that I wanted to get to on the book. How long did this take you to put together between all the interviews and then obviously the writing that you had to do? Yeah, it was probably about a two and a half year process.

Starting point is 00:21:47 I think I've reached out for the first interviews. a little bit over two years ago. And then the interview list just crew, you know, people were excited to talk about KU basketball. So I was unable to interview all four living coaches, descendants of both fog out in Naysmith, a lot of prominent broadcasters, players, Travis Koff's athletic director, as well as people that you might not think about with the Kansas basketball program, but like the director of the band, Kevin Walmot, who's an Oscar winning director. I was a big kiddieu fan.

Starting point is 00:22:21 So it really ran the gamut. I interviewed somebody and went to the very first game at Elenfield House and actually performed during the last time. But, yeah, kind of putting all those interviews together, making a cohesive story. And then it took probably a year and a half. And then a little bit more than that. And then the last six months or since it's kind of been gone through

Starting point is 00:22:39 the editing process and selecting pictures and things like that. And so where can people, well, I guess where will they be able to get the book? Yeah. So the official release dates October 28th, but people can pre-order now. So my book's being published by the University Press of Kansas. So you can go to that website and pre-order it. And right now, if you use a code fog stories, so P-H-O-G stories, you can get 30% discount. You can also go to my website, which is c-Davidbooks.com.

Starting point is 00:23:12 You can also pre-order the Amazon and live online retailers. Okay, so there you go. Again, it's called Stories from the Fog. Shalon David joining us. And what an awesome book. I'm really looking forward to this in October and might have some fun stories to talk about here on the show. Is there anything else that you want people to know about the book before they start turning pages in a couple months? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:35 I think this is Inbaid, that has a connection to K. You will enjoy this book because a lot of it is, the majority of it is about basketball. But there's also quite a bit of history and some pop culture and, talk about some of the buildings on campus. And it does stretch back basically the majority of its last 40 years, but it does talk some about, you know, even before that was Fogg Allen. So I think it's a pretty comprehensive history of Kansas basketball and a lot of the people that have made it such a special program.

Starting point is 00:24:03 But, yeah, I had a lot of fun riding it. So I hope everybody that reads it has just as much fun. Awesome. Well, Shalon, I appreciate the time. And good luck with the book. And I can't wait to read it myself. Thanks, Derek. I appreciate it.

Starting point is 00:24:15 All right. That'll do it for this episode of Lockdown, Jay, We'll be back at you on Saturday to talk a little KU Fresno State one week out. Thank you so much for joining us. This has been locked on Jayhawks. Make sure to subscribe to the show anywhere you get your podcast, including on our YouTube page. We'll see you next time on LOJ.

Locked On Jayhawks - Daily Podcast On Kansas Jayhawks Football & Basketball - STORIES FROM THE PHOG: New Book Reveals Stories from Kansas Basketball Players, Coaches & History

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