Locked On Jayhawks - Daily Podcast On Kansas Jayhawks Football & Basketball - Takeaways From Past Kansas Jayhawks Basketball 3-Game Losing Streaks

Episode Date: January 26, 2023

Takeaways and past happenings for other Kansas Jayhawks men's basketball teams under Bill Self that have lost three consecutive games. What it means for this team realistically if things do or don't get better.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!LinkedInLinkedIn jobs helps you find the candidates you want to talk to, faster. Post your job for free at Linkedin.com/lockedoncollege Terms and conditions apply.Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKEDON15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order.FanDuelMake Every Moment More. Place your first FIVE DOLLAR bet to get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in Free Bets – win or lose! Visit Fanduel.com/LockedOn today to get startedFANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN)  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

On today's Locked on Jayhawks, we dive into the pastimes that Kansas has lost three consecutive games in a basketball season under Bill Self, how they've bounced back, what's come of it, what it has meant for those specific teams. You are Locked on Jayhawks, your daily podcast on the Kansas Jayhawks, part of the Locked on Podcast Network, your team every day. I'm Derek Johnson. You can hear me as well on Rock Chalk Sports Talk, Monday through Friday, 3 to 6 on KLWN and Lawrence. Been losing my voice. I think I'm back on the right track, hopefully, here.

But you can hear that later today. And we're free and available here with Locked on Jayhawks anywhere that you get your podcasts or on YouTube. On today's edition of Locked on Jayhawks, we are going to be going over the past times that Kansas has lost three consecutive games in the Bill Self era at KU, what kind of came about, how it happened to those teams, how they bounced back, what it meant for those specific teams to see if we can learn anything from past history for what it could mean for this team.

This episode of Locked on Jayhawks is brought to you by FanDuel Sportsbook, the official sportsbook of Locked On. Make every moment more. Visit FanDuel.com slash slash locked on to get started. So this is the fourth time in the Bill Self era that a KU team has lost three in a row. The first time that it happened, you got to go all the way back to the 2004 to 2005 season. That was, what, second year on the job for Bill Self. And, you know, they, in 03-04, his first year, they get the four seed.

They make it all the way to the Elite Eight. And then in 0405, you're you're feeling great because they're building off that strong run. They look even better. They start 20 and one on the season. They're 10 and 0 in Big 12 play. And then they lose three straight. They lose at Tech in double overtime, 80-79. They lose at home against Iowa State, 63-61, and that was even in overtime, so talk about a low-scoring game. So back-to-back overtime losses, and then they lose at Oklahoma. Oklahoma was the best of those teams that year

71 to 63 so three straight losses there now in their case a little different than the three straight losses this team had yes you had correlation of one of them being in overtime but they had two in overtime and they never lost one of them by double digits this team obviously you know losing one of them by even six to Baylor, that would have been, besides the Oklahoma game, the biggest loss that that team suffered. And obviously the 20-plus point loss, I think 23 points to TCU, would have been the biggest defeat there.

So a little bit different in how those came about, but that team lost those three straight. Now 2012-2013, Kansas was 19 was 19 and 1 so again a little further on in the season they were 7 and 0 in big 12 play and then they lost three straight against oklahoma state 85 to 80 that was in allen field house um then at tcu that was the topeka ymca game that everybody remembers and that you know that was not this version of tcu or jamie dixonCU, that was the Topeka YMCA game that everybody remembers. And that was not this version of TCU or Jamie Dixon TCU. That was like TCU constant bottom feeder in the Big 12. They lost that one 62-55 on the road.

And then they lost at Oklahoma, 72-66. And that went from a team where it was like, okay, you have this great story. Ben McElmore stepping up. Jeff Withey's blocking everything. This is maybe the best team in the country. If not, it's certainly one of the best. And then you lose three strike games and boom. Then the last time it happened was the 2020-21 season.

Kansas was 10-2. So this one happened earlier in the year. They were just 4-1 in Big 12 play. Although I don't know if date- wise it might have been around the same time because this was uh the like post-covid year to where the season started a little bit later like at the beginning of december um so they lose three straight at oklahoma state 75 70 at baylor 77 69 and that was the baylor team that won the title. And then at Oklahoma, 75-68. And that at the time, that put them at 10-5 and 4-4.

I mean, a lot of us remember that season not going great for KU, especially with how it finished. But I didn't remember they were 4-4 in Big 12 play. That just seems like such a far cry. But hey, if you lose your next game here, if you're Kansas in Big 12 play on Tuesday night against Kansas State, all of a sudden you're 5-4, which is not that different. But each of those previous times, they were able to avoid the fourth straight loss.

Now for Kansas this time, unlike those other three, the chance at losing four straight is not a conference game because it happens to line up that it's at Kentucky but in 2004-2005 they won the next game that was the after they had lost the three straight drops them to 20 and 4 10 and 3 in conference play they had that that home game against Oklahoma State that was a really good Oklahoma State team and you had that the crazy game that you still see video of to this day they went 81 to 79 that was a really good Oklahoma State team. And you had that crazy game that you still see video of to this day. They went 81-79.

That was a big-time performance for them to win their or to shake off the three straight losses. Then in 2012-2013, their next game was at home against Kansas State. They won that one 83-62. So they bounced back very well. Then in 2020-21 season, they won their next game 59-51 at home against TCU. So they were able to shake it off as well, though they ended up losing the next game. So if that team would have lost that TCU game at home, that team would have wound up with five straight losses, which would have been pretty crazy.

But it hasn't been since 1989 that this team has lost four straight. Think about that. So that's not just a Bill Self stat at this point. This is a Roy Williams stat. Not since 1989 have they lost four consecutive games in basketball. And that's what's a real possibility with the schedule at Kentucky on Saturday. Certainly the schedule for this team doesn't help, which, by the way, you hope that it doesn't get as bad as it did in 1989. Kansas lost eight straight at one point. This team loses eight straight. Oh, my gosh.

We're going to be talking about this team being a bubble team? That just doesn't seem right. So let's just cut it off. Let's avoid that. But I think you look at bill self off of losses just in general even when it's just one loss the record is superb and then it just there's fewer and fewer times that he's lost two straight or in this case three straight but i guess three and oh when he's lost three straight so you hope that streak continues on saturday as they head into

lexington let's get into what it specifically meant, though, for those teams, besides the fact that they were able to kind of shake off the three-game losing streak. Like, how did those teams finish? When did the stretch happen in the season? Did that relate at all toward the end of the season with March Madness, where they were nosediving or able to bounce back from it? We'll discuss that coming up in our next segment. But first this episode of locked on Jayhawks is brought to you by fan duel.

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FanDuel has all your favorite bets from the money line to point spreads to player props. Plus, you can even combine your bets for a chance at bigger payouts with same-game parlays. You can bet on Kansas if you think they're going to bounce back from the three straight losses against Kentucky. you can bet on kansas if you think they're going to bounce back from the three straight losses against kentucky you can bet on the chiefs that line keeps bobbing around between since he being favored by two and a half the chiefs opened his two and a half point favorite so you can get it somewhere in there um all on an app that's safe

secure and super easy to use so football fans don't miss out place your first five dollar bet to get 150 in free bets win or lose at fanduel.com locked on make every moment more with fanduel the official sportsbook partner of the nfl okay getting on to the rest of this segment with what it specifically meant for the ku teams that they lost three straight and figuring out if there's anything we can kind of take away from that. So we'll start with the 2004 to 2005 team. That team would go on to lose in the Big 12 semifinals, and then they lost in the first round of the NCAA tournament to Bucknell.

Everybody remembers with the Wayne Simeon shot nearly finding its way in their three game losing streak. They're kind of bad stretch. It happened so late in the year that it was tough to kind of have all that time in front of you to regain momentum. Like that's one thing that this team has. There's still plenty of time, even if they do lose four straight to Kentucky, you still have K-State and Iowa State after that, and you still have a full month. Even after the Kansas State game, you still have a full month of February before you even kind of get into some of the bigger months.

I don't know. You kind of look at it a little bit different. And that team ended up losing six of its final nine games and three of their final four. Got it from that perspective, and it was just kind of tanking toward the end after they had an even better start than this team had. But obviously, if you correlate it and say and say well that team lost three straight games they wound up losing in the first round right the 2012 to 2013 season

um they'd go on to win seven straight after the three losses in a row. And so they easily bounced back. Then they went on to win the Big 12 tournament. That gave them 10 wins in 11 games headed into the NCAA tournament. There's an exact example of a team that was able to overcome the three straight losses and bounce back in more and really get get hot after it and that's what you'd hope that this team does and that team ended up getting a one seed they were the number two overall one seed made it to the sweet 16 and then they had that game that they kind of blew against michigan so um you know that's probably the best success. It was also when you look at their three losses,

like the TCU one specifically just feels super fluky with how that happened. And they were all kind of close losses. Then you have the 2020 to 21 season. That team went two and two in the next four games after they lost three in a row. But then they won five straight. And they overall had won eight of nine games headed into the NCAA tournament.

And they were kind of hot. I know it doesn't get remembered well because of how things finished, but that Kansas team from February to the start of the NCAA tournament had the number one defense in college basketball. They'd changed some stuff up, and they'd figured some stuff out and they became a lot better they beat Baylor on senior night um and then it's not that they lost in the big 12 tournament like they won their first game against Oklahoma they were going to play Texas in the semi-finals now Texas had swept them in the regular season so you don't know for sure if they would have beaten them but um they they had to leave because of COVID issues. And some of those COVID issues carried over to the NCAA tournament.

Like you had Jalen Wilson, who – David McCormick, who were like just back in time, had missed the first-round game. And you ended up sneaking by Eastern Washington with the Groves brothers going off, and then you got blown out by USC in the second round. But obviously, COVID issues to kind of talk about there. So we total it all up.

Look at the past three seasons that each of them lost those three straight games. You still won the Big 12 in two out of those three seasons. But you never made an elite eight or further but then again if we're adding context here you can make real excuses or maybe excuses is the wrong word you can add very fine footnotes or minute details about why i don't know like the 2012-2013 team the fact that they didn't make an elite eight it's not because they lost three straight games earlier in the season and that the three straight I don't know, like the 2012-2013 team, the fact that they didn't make an Elite Eight, it's not because they lost three straight games earlier in the season and that the three straight losses earlier in the season were an indication

of the problems they would have that would leave them out of the Elite Eight. No, like they should have beaten Michigan. And so if that team wins that game and then they're playing, I think they would have been playing like a three-seed Florida at that point. Who knows, maybe they wins that game and then they're playing, I think they would have been playing like a three seed Florida at that point. You know, who knows? Maybe they win that game. And at that point, you're playing a four seed Syracuse in the final four, right? Like a team could have very easily gone on a deeper run.

So I don't know how much we can really take away just because and like the 2020-21 season too. Like, I don't know if they beat USC. Probably not. I don't think it matters. Even if guys are healthy back from COVID, if Dave doesn't have the foot injury, they still probably lose to USC. I mean, they lost by so much.

It's hard to change it. But here's what could have changed. What if they don't have the COVID issues and they do play Texas in the Big 12 semifinals and they win that game? And then they beat, I think it was Oklahoma State in the Big 12 title that year, and then they beat Oklahoma State. Now are they all of a sudden on the two line? And then they avoid USC altogether. Things could have easily changed in both of those seasons.

And I guess you could say, oh, well, in 05, if the Wayne Simeon shot drops, who knows if that team gets it going. But it's specifically those two years so on one hand you can easily correlate it and be like no self team that has made the elite a to further has lost three consecutive games but also it is a small sample size and as i just pointed out there are small little weird things that happened in a couple of those seasons that could have changed what the path or the future the the destination of those teams were. But I think overall, like clearly losing this many in a row, which Kansas has with three in a row,

it's a sign that this isn't a dominant KU or Bill Self team. But I don't know that anybody expected that to be the case. But still, if you thought this was one of the, you know, four or five best teams in the country, I think this is a sign that maybe that's not really the case. You probably have your first tier of title contenders. KU's not in that right now. Maybe they're in that second tier,

but they have to bounce back to even show that at this point. And so you're still good. You still have talent. You still have Bill Self. It's just not one of those absolutely special seasons. And I do think this year, too, the three-game losing streak is also a little bit different because, you know, in those past seasons, like the loss to TCU for the 12-13 team, the TCU team was really bad.

Like this year, you lose to TCU, and it's like, oh, that team could make a Final Four. It's like, oh, you lose to Baylor, they could make a Final Four. Oh, you lose to Kansas State, they could make a Final Four. You know what I mean? Like the schedule is so much more difficult this year that it would be easier that honestly, if you look back to some past years and you say, well, this team had a two game losing streak, that might be the equivalent to what this team has had this season. But again, any optimistic talk about having a three game losing streak and bouncing back from it involves you winning your next game so that

you don't continue that losing streak. In just a second, we're going to get on to realistically what do we expect this team to finish with locked on Jayhawks. Kansas has lost three straight. They're sitting at 16-4 on the season, sitting at 5-4 on the season, sitting at 5-3 in Big 12 play, which is currently one game back of first place. I guess it's tied for fourth because Texas, K-State, Iowa State

are occupying the top three spots, all tied for first, and you're tied with Baylor and TCU. Just absolute madness and a mesh up at the top. But I want to segment this out in three different ways. Like realistically, what do we think this team is going to finish or what should the expectations be? Let's look at the, I guess, glass half full approach. Realistically, if they figure it out,

if they figure out some of their issues, which, you know, there are several, right? There's the lack of bench scoring. There's the lack of some of the freshmen that have, you know, maybe promising futures, but can they figure it out this year, which goes back into the bench stuff? What's going on with DeJuan Harris? Can KJ Adams bounce back from a couple of bad performances and being in foul trouble? Can Kevin McCuller figure out his shot? Where's the energy level? Can they stop being down 10 points through the first eight minutes of the game?

Can they do better at defensive rebounding? Can they do well against athletic teams? Like there, there are enough flaws here to talk about, but I'm not saying they'd figure out every single one. Like that's not realistic. Can they figure out the main flaws? Can they figure out the biggest flaws that are kind of haunting them or at least shore up some of the things and focus on their strengths more,

get back to some of the things they were doing better in December, like defending, like forcing turnovers. And they do some of those things. If they figure it all out, I think realistically, of course this team could win the big 12. They could win the big 12 outright. Honestly. I mean, you look at FanDuel right now,

they're the betting favorite still win the big 12 outright honestly i mean you look at fanduel right now they're the betting favorite still win the big 12 now it's close i think it's them plus 320 k states like plus 350 but the point is like everything's still in front of you you know you go next week and you beat k state at home you win at iowa state all of a sudden or and then you beat texas at home the next night all of a sudden you're in first place in the Big 12. Now that's easier said than done because those are very tough opponents, and that would involve quite a run of play that we're not seeing right now from KU. But if they figure it out, everything's in front of them. They can win the Big 12 regular season.

They can get a 1 seed. They can get the number one overall seed because of how tough this Big 12 is and because of how many quad one wins KU already has and would add at that point. So everything's still in front of this team to accomplish everything now if it stays the same if it stays the exact same of where it is right now then realistically you're not going to win the big 12 um if it stays the same of some of the issues you're seeing right now but you're still overall a pretty talented team and do have a lot of strengths. Probably looking at a team that would finish like 10-8 in the Big 12.

And if you go 10-8 in this version of the Big 12, you know, maybe 9-9, 11-7, somewhere in that range. I don't know, 11-7, who knows? That might be enough to win it this year. No, probably not. But, you know, if you go 10-8 in the Big 12 this year, and KU racked up a good amount of wins in the non-con we'll see what happens with kentucky i don't know maybe you're the four seed three seed five seed somewhere in that range in the big 12 tournament and if you can grab a couple big 12 tournament wins like

wouldn't be out of the question that you could still get like a two seed in the ncaa tournament um just because of how many quad one wins and how difficult that would be. So you would still have a lot in front of you, but certainly it would not fit the goals of you trying to win the Big 12, which you're trying every year. And from where you were a couple weeks ago, where it's like, yeah, KU, well on the path to a one seed, that wouldn't be there.

Now, if it gets worse, you get kind of like a snowball effect and things just continue to track down is it impossible in this version of the big 12 that you know ku does lose to kentucky and then they lose to kansas state and iowa state and texas and now you have six or seven straight losses and now it's just you're fighting to try to be an ncaa tournament team at that point don't know. That doesn't feel super realistic to me. But I guess if it does get worse, if it does snowball, and now all of a sudden not only are a lot of your other players struggling, but now Jalen's having tough games too on top of that. Grady's having tough games at the same time

because as much as they've lost these last games, Jalen's been unbelievable. So now take away that. If that were to go away at any point what would that mean and if it does get worse than snowball then yeah you're probably looking at this being in the discussion of being one of the worst bill self teams of the ku era i don't think that's going to happen i look at them and i think they're better than that 2020 to 21 team. They have more firepower, even if it's not all clicking right now. I think they're better than the 18-19 team. Like I do get the comparisons with, you know, Jalen Wilson, Dedrick Lawson, you're having this unbelievable season, couldn't figure out enough around him. I think this team is better than that. I think they're more athletic. I think they have higher potential, higher ceiling

with their switchability and athleticism to get out in transition than that team did but you know i guess this schedule with the big 12 is also more difficult that it could put you in a position where you are a four seed you know what i mean so um i guess if it gets worse and snowballs then you're in that conversation if it stays the same i still think you probably look at a two or three seed in the NCAA tournament. And if you figure it out, great, even better,

but that'll do it for this edition of a locked on Jay Hawks. We're going to have our KU Kentucky preview on tomorrow's show. Hopefully my voice will be even better by then, but we'll wait and see on that. Have a good rest of your day. You can find the podcast wherever you find any of your podcasts or on YouTube. Don't forget to subscribe to the show and you can see me later today on

Rock Chalk Sports Talk. Bye.