Can the Mariners Actually Trade Chris Flexen For a Bat?
00:00Can the Mariners convince Chris Flexen to opt-in so they can trade them?And if so, can they actually get something that helps their 2023 offense?We'll discuss that and wrap up our team awards with MVP and game of the year.Coming up here on the Lockdown Mariners podcast, Colby, hit it.You are Locked on Mariners.Your daily Seattle Mariners podcast.Part of the Locked on podcast network, your team every day.It is Tuesday, October 25th, 2022.
00:27This is Tyning Azales and Colby Patnode.for the lockdown Mariners podcast.Thank you so much for making us your first listen,subscribe, like, and turn on alerts.If you're watching on YouTube or subscribeand leave a five-star reviewon your preferred podcast platform,if you like what you hear.
00:41And if you want to hear from us even more,please consider signing up for our Patreon.The link as well as our social accountsis in the description below.And on the show today,we'll be wrapping up our team awardswith the Mariners 2020 MVPand Game of the Year.
00:55But first, we actually have a little bit of,well, not necessarily.news. You know, we're in that awkward part of the off season where the off season actually hasn'tofficially begun. The World Series is still happening. But there's little bits and pieces ofinformation. Mostly people trying to put two and two together. And I think that's what's going ona little bit here with Corey Brock of the Athletic who in his mailbag the other day talked aboutChris Flexen potentially opting in, which would be a little bit of surprise. Of course, his club optionconverted to a player option because of the innings limit that he reached and or ending's
01:36threshold rather that he reached.And if he were to, to accept that to opt in, that would be worth $8 million for 2023.And he'd be under club control for 2023 and three more years after that.And so that creates a little bit of a valuable asset here.And because of that, Corey Brock thinks that the Mariners could actually trade.flex and for something useful and then building upon that there was an articleyesterday from Nick Deeds of MLB trade rumors.com who said that who even mentionedthat a med Rosario could be a possibility. Guardian shortstop a met
02:16Rosario could be a possibility in a Chris Flex and aid and that there is some thoughtthat the Mariners could actually get offensive help in 2023 and a deal thatsends flex and elsewhere and gives flex andan opportunity to actually start somewhere because that path of course is not particularly clearin Seattle and basically the idea would be that the mariners could sell flexen on that ideain order to convince him to opt in that hey we will get you somewhere where you can startso what do you think about that possibility colby do you actually think the mariners couldget flexen you know first to get flexen to opt in with that premise and then secondly to
02:57actually get something that helps them in 2023in a deal that sends flex in elsewhere.Hard to say.If you're flexen, I mean, do you want to be tradedor do you just want to pick which team you go to?I mean, that seems to be what I would want.But maybe he's convinced that he's not going to get $8 million.So if he opts in, then he at least gets the $8 million
03:21and maybe two teams are paying him that $8 millioninstead of just the Mariners are paying all eight.Maybe the Mariners are paying four.and Tampa's paying for or whatever.But either way, Chris gets eight.So maybe that's his thinking.Maybe that's why it's a possibility for flexin.But if not, then I would think Chris would just want to pick where he pitched next year.
03:42So we'll see.I think he's got four or five days after the World Series ends to make that decision.So we'll know here in the next couple of weeks, the idea that you could trade flexin and other pieces for a legitimate bat.that could help you in one of your newly created holes in the lineup.It seems almost too good to be true.No offense to Chris Flexen, but he's just, he's a number five.He's a pretty good number five, but he's a five.Sometimes he looks like a pretty good for,
04:14but for the most part, you know, he's just kind of a dude,and he didn't really take any steps forward after a really good first year.He was pretty solid still this year.I mean, he's a good pitcher.It's not like he doesn't have any value.It's just I thought that if you were going to be able to trade Chris Flexen, you'd be getting Jake Shiner type of prospect or maybe a bullpen arm or maybe a like the Chris Flexon of bats, which is certainly not a mod Rosario.So yeah, it's just kind of an odd idea that I don't think we ever really considered.But it would fall into the category of unique and outside the box.
04:55And that's something that Jerry and this front office are really known for.So it's definitely something that's piqued my interest now.I still don't see it.It just seems so unlikely.But, you know, Brock did mention that the team's calling on Chris Flexen at the deadline.They were contenders.So there are good playoff teams out there that think Chris Flexen can help them.And so, yeah, I mean, it kind of makes sense.
05:21And because Flexen in this scenario would have four years of control,if he opts in, it certainly is, it's not like it's a rental, right? So if you can flip himto a team for maybe a rental, that coming back, I think that is just like, that's about asgood as you can hope for on the Chris Flex and market. So it'll be interesting to see ifthe ops in. It just, it's still, to me though, it still feels a little like, are, are thoseteams interested or was that just because there's limited options at the deadline?Well, and there's going to be limited options this year as well. And,free agency and on the trade market. That's not to say that there are no options, but it's, you know,
06:01that market is going to be depleted pretty quick. Not every team is going to be able to getthe pitching that it wants. So that's kind of working in the Mariners' favor here. The other thingworking in the Mariners' favor on top of, you know, the fact that he would have four years ofclub control. That's going to be appealing to any team because controllable starting pitching of anykind, especially with a pitcher that has had some success is valuable. Flexen has provento stay healthy over the first you know first couple of years since coming back to the majorleagues and he's been an innings eater he pitched you know 180 innings last year and thenthrough 137 and two thirds this year before being replaced in the rotation uh and that wasn't
06:43necessarily of his fault it was just the mariners needed to get better um and so you know hehe's a guy that will post you know an er race somewhere in the the low threes so the high foursfours, or high threes to the low fours, rather, and, you know, not walk a ton of guys.He's obviously not going, you know, he doesn't have strikeout stuff, but he's one year removedfrom being a three-win pitcher by F-4 standards.That's going to hold some value.I don't think that's going to be a ton of value to just do a one-for-one swap for a batthat you can put in your starting lineup on most nights.
07:19But I think that's going to help you cut the cost quite a bit on someone like an embeddedRosario.or the other idea that I had,and we don't have a ton of time to get into this,but the other idea that I had,and I think one of the teams that was calling the Marinersabout Flexim was the Toronto Blue Jays,I like Teasca Hernandez in this situation.
07:37Teosker Hernandez has just one year left of club control.He's a rental bat.Obviously, he's a great bat that the fans of Toronto loveand has been a big part of that dominant offense for Toronto,but they have to get better with the pitching.They have to get better with the pitching.Ross Stripling's about to become a free agent,He might get the qualifying offer, but I don't think he's going to take that.
07:58So they're going to need to add starting pitching.And while Chris Flexen isn't a sexy name, I think Toronto would have interest in that.And especially for a starting pitcher, number four, number five with four years of club control,for a corner outfielder who hits for a ton of power, but it only has one year left of club control.I think that makes some sense if you can add another piece onto that, if you're the Mariners,whether that's maybe a bullpen arm like a Diego Castillo.I don't think it would just be Diego Castillo in that situation,but maybe you add on a prospect somewhere in your 10 to 15 range or something like that.
08:34I think there is a path there where a deal in which Chris Flexing goes to Toronto and Teosker Hernandez heads back to Seattle can be worked out between these two teams.So that's another name that I would keep an eye on.But I think, you know, Guardians are definitely a name to keep an eye on because they always are looking for a bargain when it comes to starting pitching.and then Toronto because the need is just so great there.Is there anyone else that maybe comes to mind for you?Yeah.So the piece also mentions maybe G. Man Choi as kind of a Carlos Santana replacement.I don't know if the Mariners are looking for an exact Carlos Santana replacement.
09:12I don't think that's a mold that they're looking at it.That was more about, you know, Ty Francis hurt.We need a first baseman and we need some DHL.So I think that was more about need than necessarily fit.So I don't think that's a role going forward.But Choi's really good against right-handed pitching and pretty good defender at first base.And he's a fun player.So, yeah, that'd be fun.
09:32I was thinking, you know, depending on how, and obviously all these are depending on how the teams want to build for next year.A couple guys that came to mind, Hunter Renfro from Milwaukee.You know, they were a contender last year.So I don't know, maybe they seem like a team that would be in terms.interested in a Chris Flexen type.Renfro and thenprobably this isanother guy. It probably require a
09:58okay prospect to be tacked on, butmaybe somebody like Max Kepler of thetwins.So, you know, the twins need pitchinghelp. They need more thanflexin, but maybe it's something likeflexin andCade Marlow or
10:14Zach DeLoch or, you know, justa solid prospect, but nothing amazingfor Max Kepler. So maybe,those are two guys that kind of came to mind.And both would obviously, I mean, basically step right in and fill the right field void for the Seattle Mariners.All right.So we are going to wrap up our team awards for the 2022 Mariners in just a moment with Game of the Year and MVP.But first, a reminder, this episode of Lockdown Mariners is brought to you by BetOnline.
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11:20listen. So let's wrap up these team awards, Colby, as we continue to say goodbye to the2022 Seattle Mariners. I'll let you pick here because I there's one of these awards I think isgoing to be quick. The other one I think is going to be a little bit more interesting. Which one doyou want to start with? MVP, game of the year. Let's do MVP. All right. So I thinkeveryone knows who the MVP of the 2022 Seattle Mariners.was it was Luis Sarenz of course and Justin Upton as co- MVP no it was uh oneJulio Rodriguez who I mean took the baseball world by storm Colby what's it though all rightyou got another name you want to throw into the ring here cow Raleigh
12:12honestly I look it's the wrong answer maybe but I could I could understand it I couldunderstand it a little bit.I think he's probably second place or third place.Yeah. Totally fair.So the correct answer is actually Jerry Depoto.Yes.Let Jerry Coke.Bootlicker comments.
12:37Whatever.I'm just saying.I think the MVP was actually John Stanton.And that'll do it for today's show.Thank you so much for listening.I am looking for a new co-host as of now.there you go.No, the MVP, it's Julio.
12:56He's going to win rookie of the year.He was your best player for basically from May, May 1st until the end of the year.You just basically toss out the entire month of April and he was mooky bets.Like, yeah, Julio would be the most valuable player on like 20 teams in the league.Like that's just the type of player he is right now.I'm not even exaggerating.Basically from May 1st until the end of the year.Julio Rodriguez at the same WRC Plus and almost an identical slash line to mooky bets.
13:25Like the guy is insane.He also plays, you know, a pretty good center field.He's stealing a ton of bags.And honestly, his numbers were hampered because of the lingering injuries, both of the back and the wrist.If he doesn't hurt his back and wrist in the second half of the year, he's easily getting 30-30.There's really no question about it.He almost got it anyways.But they really slowed down the stolen base attempts after he injured the wrist.
13:50wrist just before the all-star break and then the back kind of sapped him of any well they justthey were being extra cautious he could still run and he was still running fine but it's just being alittle careful which is understandable why i don't think cullio's ever going to be like a 40 steelguy even though he could be i just feel like the team's going to be like yeah let's let's notrisk that kind of like mike trout yeah how he used to steal a ton of bases and now he's just likehe can but no so we'll see but yeah Julio was your best base runner he was your best hitterhe was probably your second best defender third best defender he's just you know everythingabout this team he's he's the energy guy he's kind of the de facto captain at 21 years old it's just
14:40everything about Julio is a franchise building type of player and he's already an icon he's playedone year in Seattle and I guarantee you there are people out there who will put Julio as one of the 10best mariners of all time like after one season and that's all projection.Yeah.Although the one season was very good.But yeah, I mean, you could probably make that argument.I mean, like if Julio has five more years like he just had, like who are we kicking off a Mount Rushmore to put Julio on?Right.
15:11You know what I mean?So does he even need five more years of this?Honestly, like.I mean, because of the personality and like the fact that he stayed and all that stuff, like,screw it. He's already on it. We're kicking Griffey off. There you go. Julio is replacing Griffey.And we just lost 400 subscribers. Well, we are not, we are not replay. Fine. Then I get to keep all these cards.That's true. But we're not replacing Dave Nehouse and we're not replacing Edgar. So you tell me who to kick off for Julio then. It's either Griffey, Randy, Ichero.whoever you want to put on it now
15:47so yeah you go ahead and kick somebody offbut it's not going to be I will not allow it to beDave or Edgar sofigure it outyeah Julio's the most valuable playeryeah 284 345509 triple slash line146 WRC plus
16:03he was worth 5.4F4and that's with thedefensive war being 0.1from Fangraphs so likethey didn't really care at all abouthis defense which kind ofmistake in my opinion but whatever uh 28 home runs as you mentioned he almost got to the 30 30mark 25 steals struck out you know 26 percent of the time we'll get into that more on our
16:28player review of julio which is going to be coming out tomorrow we're actually going to be recordingright after we're done recording this uh 7.1 percent walk rate uh 7 out's above average and centerfield i think that was the most impressive thing for me this year outside of obviously the fact that he wassuperstar right out of the gate, which we talked about is like a rarity.You know, it's the exception to the rule when it comes to top prospects.But the defense was really the most surprising thing when it came to Julio.It was the fact that he was not just serviceable, but actually like above average out there for the most part.And we talked about that a little bit yesterday with his defense as well.
17:09The fact that he's actually a long-term option in center field right now is,I mean, that's something. That's definitely not something that we really expected. You can do better than him, of course. But there aren't many centerfielders that are better than Julio that also provide the offense that he does out of a premium position. He's just a ridiculous player. He's going to be a superstar in Major League Baseball for a very long time. And the Mariners have him for basically his entire career. Yeah.Yeah, when MLB Network every offseason, they do the prime nine or whatever.They rank the best players at each position.Julio's going to be top three in center field.Yeah.I mean, right now, he's probably the second best behind Trout.Yeah.
17:58So, yeah, that's what we're talking about with a 21-year-old.Just a freak.Yeah.Absolute freak.So on top of the numbers that I listed, he had 25 doubles this year.year three triples. He drove in 75 runs. He walked 40 times, struck out 145 times. And he was onlycaught stealing seven times. So he was 25 of 32 on the year on the base pass. I think a couple of thosecame after the injury when he was, yeah, dealing with the back stuff and all that and the rest
18:32stuff and maybe a little more hesitant on those on those plays. But overall, an amazing year forJulio Rodriguez and it's just the beginning.And again, we'll be getting into that on our player review when we record that later todayand drop that tomorrow morning.So let's move on to Game of the Year.Now, we did Best Moment, which is a little bit different.Yours, you know, of course, was the drought ender.Mine was the comeback in Toronto, two games that you and I were both at.
19:02And so, you know, for me, it was really the, you know, after the game, the celebration withall the Mariners fans coming down to the field in Torontoand celebrating with the players,celebrating with Scott, celebrating with Jerry, et cetera.For you, the just, I mean, obviously,we don't even need to get into it.Just the moment of the drought finally coming to an endand being able to see that in person.
19:25I'm sure that was an incredible moment for you.But let's talk about just the quality of the game.What was the best game the Mariners played in this year?The drought ender.okay um totally fair totally fair yeah uh yeah that was just i mean it's one of the five mostimportant games in franchise history and it happened right in front of us like that's justreally hard to beat um as you know kind of an alternative here i still think you got to give a lotof love to the uh to the Braves game um and honestly you could pick either of the wins they were
20:07both pretty good games, but the comeback after the choke job, like, you know, you're up fiveor whatever.You just, yeah, you took a series from the, the world champ Atlanta Braves.You're feeling good.The Mariners are back.They were a little bit of a slide at that point, but the Mariners, yeah, we're back.We just took two or three from the Braves.Whoops.
20:30Diego Castillo comes in.Everybody kind of holds their breath like, uh, I don't, can't get it done.Seawald comes in to all right well they close the door fine whatever Cawald will get it donenope no and they go from up five to down one heading into the bottom of the ninth and then of courseof course Julio off of Kenley Jansen laser beam home run to tie it and then just a high towering blastfrom A. E. E. E. Haneosarez with two outs to win it to go from you know just the the rollercoaster of emotion in that game it's it's hard to top so I think you know there'sThere's like seven or eight really good games you could pick this year.
21:12Those two stand out to me.Also, obviously, the comeback in Toronto is a pretty big one.So, yeah, I still go with the drought ender,but I think the win against the Braves is a pretty darn good game as well.Yeah, I was going to give my nod to the Braves game,but I remembered another game that happened back in August that was pretty great.It was considered by a lot of folks, including Jeff Pass and a VSPN, to be an instant classic.It was Luis Castillo's T-Mobile Park debut against the Yankees in which the Mariners won one-to-nothing in 13 innings with Luis Terrens hitting a pinch-hit walk-off single off of Jonathan Loisiga.
22:01This pitching matchup was insane.It was Garrett Cole versus Luis Castillo, who both faced each other.in their very last start in New York.And of course, that went horribly for Cole.Went pretty well for Castillo.But both of these guys were at the top of their games.And this showed you exactly why you trade for Luis Castillo and that you actuallyhad a guy that could go toe to toe with any pitcher in Major League Baseball.
22:29Castillo goes eight scoreless settings, seven strikeouts.Him and Cole combined for 15 strikeouts in this game.They hardly allowed any base runners in this game.And if you remember, the extra innings were nuts.The Mariners' offense didn't necessarily want to win the game.The Yankees offense also didn't really want to win the game.So many base running blunders by the Yankees.Some great defensive plays by the Mariners as well.
22:58It was an incredibly entertaining game.I totally agree with folks like passing that this was an instant classic.I know it's not really the game that comes.to mind for a lot of Mariners fans when we talk about the game of the year for2022 but I think this was a statement game for the Mariners in the end that you knowthis was different this was a different team that it didn't matter who they were going upagainst whether it was the Yankees the Astros whoever they were they were going to be ableto give any team in this league a tough time and and then to show that they were actually
23:29able to come out on the right side of it as well and win in one of those crazy chaotic gamesIt just kind of exemplified everything that this Mariners ball club was in 2022.This was chaos ball to the max.This was everything that chaos ball kind of is, right?So, yeah, great game.I think shortly after that game, we did our episode entitled Are the Mariners the second best team in the American League?and a lot of people were like, no, you're crazy, blah, blah, blah.So I'll just ask you again, what, two and a half months later, did we nail that?
24:16Yeah.Because I feel like we did.Well, did you just watch the Yankees play the Astros after the Mariners just played the Astros?And of course.No, I didn't watch them, but yeah, I know all about it.And, of course, neither of those teams got wins off the Astros.The Astros are really, really good at baseball.Like, let's make that clear.
24:31The Astros are really, really good at baseball.But the Mariners played a more competitive series against the Astros than the Yankees did.And Lance McCullors, Astros, right-handed starter, even said as much that no one was beaten the Mariners.If the Mariners got past the Astros, no one was beating the Mariners.I legitimately wholeheartedly believe the Mariners were at the end of the day the second best team in the American League.It just so happened that they were playing in the same league and the same division as an absolute jugger.number one.Undisputed number one best team in the American League.
25:07Yeah.And it would have been interesting to see how maybe, you know,how differently a four game series would have gone between those two teamsbetween the Astros and the Mariners.Maybe not so differently, who knows.But there isn't a doubt in my mind that if the Mariners beat the Astros,we're on this show today talking about the Mariners in the World Series,playing the Phillies.
25:31We're talking about game.who he start in game one?Yeah.Louise Castillo.Yeah.But like obviously there's like five whole days between the last game and this one.So yeah.It's, you know, it feels a lot kind of like the 2012 Seahawks where they got on a real heater at the end.
25:53And they had a young Russell Wilson, young Bobby Watt, just all these young players.God, you're such a 12.And a lot of veterans and all that.that stuff. And they went in and they were just like the hottest team in the NFC at the end of the year. And had they gotten past Atlanta, uh, who was the number one seed, I believe, um, at the time, uh, they would have won the Super Bowl that year. And they just couldn't. They had it, they had the lead late. They played really well. They played a, you know, and they blew it at the end. And the marriage didn't really blow it per se, but, you know, they had three winnable games and they didn't win any of them. Um, uh, uh,But it was kind of the announcement that, you know, we're here, we're scary good, and we're not going anywhere for a while.And then, of course, they win the Super Bowl the next year.And the Mariners are going to do the same.Yes, the Mariners in the Super Bowl.
26:46Who would have thunk it?Also.Against the Colorado Rockies, of course.Sorry.Three to eight.Mariners in the big game.The big game.Yeah, yeah.
26:56That's right.That's right.We don't want to get demonetized here on YouTube.The big game.The big game.Yeah, soAnd also, you know, it lines up perfectly, right?2012, 2012, 2012, 2013 Super Bowl,
27:132020-23 World Series.Let's sail, baby.Let's not forget.Nostradamus on Twitter has predicted the last three World Series championscould make it four in a row if the Phillies win.And he predicted the Mariners to win the World Series in 2020.That's true.Yeah.
27:30And in 2025.Yes. I don't know what happens to 2024, maybe some injuries, but, you know, Mariners dynasty about ready to start.Or for our game of throne fans, Mariners dynasty.Denesty, yes, of course.About ready to start.In 2024, he had the Padres winning.Maybe the Mariners do make it to the World Series.They lose the Padres.
27:51We're taking the Vetter Cup to the next level, to the highest level, right?Because that is the greatest, as we all know, that is the greatest rivalry in all of sports.When you think about rivalries and baseball, not the Red Sox and Yankees, none of that.Not the Cubs and Cardinals, not the Giants and Dodgers.No, the Mariners and the Padres, the greatest rivalry.I can't even say it with a straight face.That's going to do it for our show.You know what makes that the best rivalry, though?
28:21You know what makes that better than Giants, Dodgers?I've never heard a report of somebody needing to go to the hospital.Yeah, yeah.For wearing the opposing team's jersey.I was going to say that no one's gotten stabbed during that series.Right.Yeah. Yeah, that's the greatest part of that rivalry.Beat half to death.
28:38Yeah.Seriously, the Dodgers shouldn't be allowed to have fans in their stands for like a year.Yeah.That's how you stop that.Anyways.That's going to do it for our show.Thank you so much for joining us here on the Lockdown Mariners podcast.For Colby Patnaud, I'm Ted Angzalas.
28:56Be sure to give us a follow on Twitter at L0 underscore Mariners.Follow me at Dane Gonzalez.It's D-A-N-E, G-N-Z-L-Z, and Colby at C-P-A-L-E.That's C-P-A-T-1-1.You can also find all that stuff in the description of this episode.And thank you again for making us your first listen.Oh, yeah, Colby, remind the folks what our next goal is on our giveaway real quick before we hop off.Got a Taylor-T-M-L autograph card, right?
29:21Yes.Yep, if we get to 4,500 YouTube subs by December 8th, we'll give away.this autographed Taylor Tremel card.It is numbered.It is 83 out of 99.It's a really cool card.So yep,somebody's already going to win the Taylor dollar.
29:42Next up is Taylor Tremel.We've got to get to $4,500 here in the next six weeks.Yep.And we're at about 40,000, 80, I think.So getting there.Perfect.Well, help us out, folks.Tell your friends, tell your family,
29:59tell your enemies, tell everyone you know to come and subscribe to the Lockdown Mariners podcast.Now for your next listen, check out the Lockdown Sports Today podcast featuring the biggest storiesof the day plus instant reactions, big game recaps and the take of the day.It's available on the Odyssey app YouTube and wherever you get your podcast just like us.And with that, have yourself a beautiful baseball day.We'll see you tomorrow. Peace.
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