Locked On Mariners - Daily Podcast On the Seattle Mariners - Carlos Santana Is Off the Board, Now What Do the Mariners Do at First Base?

Episode Date: December 23, 2024

The floodgates have opened in the first base market, but the Mariners still haven't landed someone and multiple of their targets have flown off the board. So where do they go from here? Ty and Colby answer that and more.Check out our Patreon!Follow the show on Twitter: @LO_Mariners | @TyDaneGonzalez | @CPat11Follow the show on Bluesky: @lockedonmariners | @tdg | @mlbcolbySupport Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Rocket MoneyCancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com/lockedon today. SelectQuoteGet the right life insurance for YOU, for LESS, at SELECTQUOTE.COM/LOCKEDON.SelectQuote - They Shop. You Save. GametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONMLB for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime.FanDuelYou can start the season with a big return on FanDuel. New customers can place a FIVE DOLLAR bet and you’ll get started with ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS - if you win your first FIVE DOLLAR BET ! Visit FANDUEL.COM to get started. FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The floodgates have opened in the first base market, but the mayors so far have not landed anyone. Where do they go from here? We'll answer that and more coming up here on Mailbag Monday. Colby, hit it. You are Locked-on Mariners. Your daily Seattle Mariners podcast. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Ahoy, Sailors.

It is Monday, December 23rd, 2024. This is Tuding Azales and Colby Patnaud for the Lockdown Marys Podcast. part of the Locked-on podcast network of your team every day. Today we'll be opening up the mailbag like we do here every Monday and answer some of your Mariners questions. But before we do that, shout out to our title sponsor today, Game Time. Download the GameTime app, create an account, and use the promo code Locked-on MLB. That's L-O-C-E-D-O-N-M-LB for $20 off your first purchase.

And if you want to hear from me and Colby even more and help support the show, check out our Patreon. All you have to do to check that out is click the link in the description of this episode. kicking us off here on mailbag monday is Alex thoughts on the mayor is offering a one-year deal with a player option for more guaranteed money to carlos santana so like i said in the cold open the floodgates have opened in the first base market it started with christian walker going to the astros a few days ago then josh nailer gets traded carlos santana signs with the guardians uh paul goldsmith signed with the yankees um Nate low got traded yesterday so the

nationals, lots happen in the first base market. There's still some guys out there, but yeah, that market has shrunk quite a bit over the last few days, and the mayor still do not have their guy at that spot yet. So article dropped today from Ken Rosenthal on the athletic, detailing a lot about Santana's free agency and how his one year $12 million deal with Cleveland Guard audience came to be. And it has a really interesting note in there about the Mariners who offered Santana more guaranteed money as well as a player option for 2026. So that can mean a lot of things here. The guaranteed money specifically. Like it doesn't necessarily mean, oh, they offered him

$13 or $14 million for 2025 plus the player option on top of it. Could be that maybe they offered him like 10 and then the buyout for his player option. In 2026, you know, equates to a total guarantee of like 14 million bucks, 15 million bucks. But yeah, that is very aggressive on the merit's front, especially for a 39-year-old first basement. To me, that reeks a little bit of desperation. And also, I think it would mean that they have more money than what's been projected, Because I mean, that's 80% of the projected budget that's been floated out there by, you know,

people like Adam Jude and Shannon Dreher and Daniel Kramer. So, uh, yeah. What do you think? Yeah. Um, I, I think it's weird, uh, like you said, it's a lot, right? Um, I also think I probably should call the police because clearly you've rated Ms. Frizzle's house and stolen her cardigan, uh, sweater. So give me the number to the Toronto police, please.

I believe it's 911. That feels like that's not right. But anyways, yeah, it's a little weird that they would offer more. Now, again, the wording is more guaranteed money. So that would imply that, you know, to me, that says like the opt out gets them over the 12 million, whatever the opt out is. So yeah, I don't know. Maybe it's $5 million opt out and they were going to give them $8 million this year or something like that, whatever. But I've also seen a lot of reaction similar, you know, basically around the idea that this is an indictment on the Seattle Mariners that they couldn't even land Carlos Santana despite offering more money.

And it's just like, calm down. Go step outside. Like, I get it. It's been slow. Like, I understand. I mean, it's been a bit more than. slow. They literally haven't done anything. Right. It's, it's been really frustrating. I get it. Yeah. Take a deep breath and step outside. Like, the Mariners have been seriously linked by people

who know the organization to two first basemen. One of them is still out there. The other one, you had the best offer for. You made the best offer. And he chose to take less money to go home in what probably is going to be his final season. okay well sorry you know you didn't draft carlo santana 20 years ago and you couldn't land him as a result today but that's those are the breaks you know what do you want them to do they offered more money than anybody they went after a guy aggressively and he just chose to go elsewhere a place that he has a you know 10 year history with it's not an indictment on anything and as for you know oh they didn't get goldschmidt they were never in on goldschmidt we got one report the day before he signed

and said oh the mariners are kind of interested boy i wonder if that was a Mark, I wonder if that was a ploy by the agent trying to juice up some business for Goldschmidt, because he signed the next day. Like, Naylor, they weren't going to trade for Naylor, right? They weren't going to, the Rangers weren't going to trade low or low to them. So, yeah, like the first base market has gone exactly how I kind of thought. Now, maybe not all the team, not all the pieces are going to the teams. I thought they would go. Wait, why, why weren't they going to trade for Naylor? I think that the fact that he's at one year, DH only 12 million upfront this year probably eliminates that. Now, I do wonder if they look at the price of Nailer and they're like, well, darn, we should have been more interested.

Yeah, because I mean, it's a cop round B pick and Slade Sacconi. And again, if you were, if you were going to give Carlos Santana somewhere around $12 million, which by the way is kind of my issue with what the Guardian, wound up doing like I don't know if the cop on B-Pag and slate Soconi is is worth giving the same amount of money to a 39 year old first basement but whatever that we're not locked on guardians but yeah if they were you know planning on giving Santana 12 if not more right yeah I think what's in obviously you know the one thing that goes into play when we talk about prospect

trades who do the Mariners have to offer because if the guardians really like Sacconi, then you're not giving up a comp round B pick or a comp round A pick for one year of Nailer. Like they're not going to do that. And so it's like, do they like Hancock? I mean, I wouldn't, but he's been about as good as Sikoni. So maybe that would have worked. So yeah, maybe they could have gotten Nailer, but they didn't.

Okay. Move on. Maybe they didn't get Nailer because they thought they were getting Santana because, A, they had the best offer. And B, it sounds like the Santana thing literally. came together in hours. Like Cleveland jumped in at the last minute and sniped him from you. So I don't know. Like, did the mayor's wait around too long for an answer from Santana?

Probably. That's probably the thing to be worried about here. But it's not an indictment that they couldn't get him signed. And like you said, if they were offering him more money than anybody else for a 39-year-old first base only, do they only have $16 million? Do they feel pretty good that they can clear some salary somewhere along? the way do they have more money to spend than we thought like why would they do that it was just 16 million dollars well because they've stated we want to add bullpen help we want to we want to

address at least two of the infield spots so right if they only have 60 million dollars you're not doing that if you're giving carlos santana an upwards of 12 million dollars right again unless they have some kind of maybe it's a castillo deal maybe it's a hand or something right to help pay for santana essentially um So yeah, to me, like, I think you could, you could read this more, like, I would look at this as more good news than bad news. It's not any news to me, though, like personally, because they didn't get a guy. Who cares? Like, move on.

Go get the next guy. Are you really bad? I'm not disappointed. Like, yeah, the fact that they didn't get Carlo Santana for, you know, $10 to $14 million plus a player option. Okay. Cool. Like, I'm glad they didn't do that. Are you significantly?

significantly worse off if you go trade for Lamont Wade Jr. At his $5 million salary. No. No. Yandy Diaz is still out there. Justin Turner is still out there. And not for nothing, you have a first baseman on the roster who is perfectly good in Luke Rayleigh. So you don't actually have to get a first basement.

You have to get a bat. And so I tweeted this last night. I think the Mariners first base solution is in the outfield somewhere. Go find an outfield or address first base that way. give Luke Grayley the job, let Mitch Garber kind of platoon with him, blah, blah, blah. So I don't think it says anything. I don't think it's good news or bad news. It just happened.

And I'm not going to read any more into it than like, oh, yeah, the mayor said the best offer out there. And personally, I'm kind of glad he didn't take it because that's a risky contract to give out. But. Yeah, it's like if they did that deal and we got on the show, you know, we did our emergency show for that. I'd be like, I don't know about this. it's risky like Santana again doesn't hit right handed pitching that well

that's 60% of the job yeah good at it yeah again in two years yeah that feels desperate to me it does but again the mariners have never operated out of desperation before

which is weird well and also like considering well I'm considering all the other options why is that the guy that you're getting super progressive on. I get the clubhouse, you know, what stuff and whatever. He cares. I know he's coming off of a

3-1 season, but like, again, like you said, like he mostly only hit left-handed pitching. Like he was essentially, I mean, his numbers are indicative of a weak side platoon player. Now, he wasn't that in Minnesota, but that's essentially

like the value that he was bringing. Great defensively. One of gold glove. Hit the, the hell out of left-handed pitching. Like, cool, great. There's value to that. But $12 million, and he's 39 years old,

I got to hope that he's going to be able to at least do that and also avoid hitting the cliff. Yeah. That's a, yeah, it's a major risk. I don't really like that deal for Cleveland. I really would not have like that deal as reported by Ken Rosenthal today for the Merrers. Yeah, I feel like, you know, Mariner fans are so desperate for any kind of action. So am I, by the way. Like, I just want something to happen.

I get it. But at the same time, like, I'm glad that the Mariners are more patient than I am. But like, yeah, they had given Santana two-year deal, basically. That is at least paying him like 14 to 15 million bucks. And potentially more. Yeah. No, I wouldn't have loved that either. But yeah, you know, we'll see.

We'll see what happens. But no, I'm not, I'm not, you know, panicked or I'm not. I don't think it says really much of anything, to be honest with you. I think we're all reading between the lines a little too much. All right. So we're going to talk about where the mayors go next in terms of first space. And just a moment. But first a reminder of this episode of the Lockdowner Marys podcast is brought to you.

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Make every moment more with Fandul, an official sportsbook partner of the NFL. And you're listening to the Locked-on Marrars podcast. It is a mailbag Monday. Let's get back into your questions. Brian wants to know, do you think the Marys will push to get a deal done quickly with Turner or just trade for Yondi Diaz? I don't know. I don't know what their next move is.

I would think that Turner is probably the next guy that they turn their attention to. I'll tell you this, that's not my preference, especially if Turner's going to command something close to, if not more than Carlos Santana, for all the reasons that we just talked about with Santana. I would rather that they trade for Yandi Diaz or Lamont Wade, frankly. Like, I would take either of those two over Turner,

considering where the first base market seems to be heading. So, yeah, it seemed to have landed on a number for older first base. You know and honestly Turner probably had the best year of all of them offensively The most consistent certainly so yeah, that number seems to be $12 million So unless the Mariners do have more money than we think they do or they're about to trade Hanager or they're about to Trade Luis or whatever right they're about to open up more money Spending $12 million on any one player is a pretty big risk because you have multiple holes on this roster so

Yeah, I think, you know, for me, like, look, if they if they resign Turner, like, fine, I hope that means they have more money or that they've somehow found a deal for a, you know, pre-arb second or third paceman, you know, and they're going to do that or however they do it. I hope it means that they have more, they feel comfortable that they either have more money or they're going to have more money to spend. like Turner's a nice fit for the ballpark. We talked about this. You know, he's a good fit. And if he was going to make $8 million, I'd be more on board with that. Yeah. If it's 12, probably not.

I do think that Diaz is probably just factoring in cost and salary and all that. Diaz is probably my favorite option that's out there right now. But Lamont Wade is certainly one of them. And again, I'll keep on point. pointing this out, like you don't actually need a first baseman. You need Victor Robles insurance. And if you get that guy, then Luke Rayleigh can be your first baseman. And it's Rayleigh and some combination of Garber and Dylan Moore at first base. Like that is your first base solution. So like you don't actually have to have a first baseman. You have to get another bat.

Right. And first base just happens to be the place that you have, you know, the open. at right now, but you could also just get the bat happening. It's also the place with all the options, right? Most of the options. Not so much anymore. But yeah, so yeah, I get why there's this hyperfocus on first base. But again, ultimately you need a bat. And if that bat happens to play the outfield, that's not a problem because you have the DH open.

You can rotate all your outfielders through there. And Luke Rayleigh is your primary first baseman. So don't zero in on just, it's Turner. And then there's nobody else in free agency at first base. Like, okay. Well. Yeah. Go look in the outfield.

If they have more money to spend, if Pete Alonzo's market got to a point where it's like Matt Chapman last year, where would you be interested in doing that where it's like $360 with a pair of player options in year two and year three? Because Chapman last year got three and 54. Yeah. Yeah, I would do that. If they have more money. Because it just seems like Pete's running out of places to go at this point.

point. I think he's pretty shocked at this point if he's not back with the Mets. Yeah, same. Yeah. So I think maybe Turner goes to the Mets, right? Or possibly. You know, what are these other guys? Maybe they get Bregman and then they have to move into toast to first and then, you know, all of a sudden Alonzo doesn't make a ton of sense there. So yeah, it's possible the chair stops and Seattle's kind of it. But I don't think it's going to get to that point. Unfortunately. But yeah, I would do that. Sure. Transactional healing wants to know. Assuming the Mets retain Alonzo, speaking of. Are the M's competing with any other teams for the potential return of Justin Turner? If not, does that drive down his asking price in any capacity? I would keep an eye on maybe the twins. Obviously, they just lost Santana, but do they even have money to spend? Who knows?

But they have an obvious need at first base. So the twins are still a team that might be lurking. But yeah, you know, options are limited now. But, you know, maybe the Mets. now they essentially gave up on him. So I don't know if there's any hard feelings there on Turner's part. But yeah, and then, you know, maybe there's a team out there like the Marlins who apparently need to just add money that, you know, we'll give him a place to play pretty much every day. And, you know, hey, we'll trade you at the deadline.

Sure. But if you're Turner and the Marlins are offering you something and the Mariners are, okay, well, One of these teams is probably going to be in the playoff on all year. I know that team. And if it's about, you know, playing every day, I'm going to play pretty much every day for the Mariners. So, you know, I can't imagine at 40 years old that Turner is going to chase the biggest contract. But we also should keep in mind that maybe he doesn't want everyday playing time. Maybe he's perfectly fine being a role player on the bench of like a World Series contender, like the Dodgers.

Go back to the Dodgers and be kind of a bench. guy for them. So it really is going to depend on what Turner wants. But yeah, I mean, the Mets, the Mariners, the Twins. Those are kind of the big three right now with first base questions. And then there's always like surprises. But I imagine that, you know, Turner's looking for a team that is going to be positioned to make a playoff run. And Seattle is one of those teams. You can also say the same about Minnesota and the Mets, of course, as well. So it, as you do, I do think it's those three teams, basically, if Turner wants an everyday role. We're going to answer more of your questions here in just a moment.

But first, a reminder, this episode of the Lockdown-Marris podcast is brought to you by GameTime. So I used to live in New Mexico. And down in New Mexico, there are zero pro sports teams. And a lot of bands and artists that I listen to skip going there more often than not. So when I moved to Toronto, where there's a baseball team, a basketball team, a hockey team, even a soccer team, and there's great music being played every night in the city. I was right in my element. When I want to catch a ball game or my wife and I want to see a ban,

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Blear wants to know if no significant moves are made. What do you think about adding Jose Iglesias and a med Rosario to play second base and third base? Both could also fill in for JP if he struggles or gets hurt. Yeah, we talked about both of those guys on our Patreon show last week. I'd be fine with either of those guys. It does seem like it would be one or the other. It wouldn't be both as you're kind of talking about here.

And of the of the two, my preference would be Iglesias. He's better defensively. Plus like Iglesias can play like a legitimate shortstop. I have JP had to go down. So. Rosario can't. Yeah.

Glaxis would be my preference. I don't think getting both of them makes sense because I'm not sure either of them are actually better than Dylan Moore. Because, you know, Demo, while the ceiling is quite low, the floor is pretty high because of the defense and the base running and the power and the walks. So, yeah, I don't, like, why give Rosario $5 million when you have Dylan Moore at $3 million? So getting one of them, fine. I hope that means you did something pretty substantial at first base and DH.

But yeah, like if everything falls apart, if Iglesis is the second baseman next year, I think that's a fine starting point. And then, you know, probably unfortunately means Dylan's a third baseman. But we have to wait and see. I mean, Iglesias could play third two. It doesn't really matter. But I don't think both of them makes a lot of sense for this roster. One of them absolutely good.

Last question of the day comes from Salz. Salz wants to know this morning, ESPN, raked Seattle second behind the angels in their aggrieved fan index, uh, meaning M's fans have the second greatest right to be aggrieved. Stanton is largely their reason. The team is oh so close yet. Ownership refuses to do a little bit more.

On the 2080 scale, how good is the ranking? I put Oakland ahead of them. I mean, because like they literally just had their team ripped away from them. So yeah, like I assume that they didn't even rank the A's. Yeah, I haven't seen this article.

Right. No, because, like, of course it's Oakland. Their team is literally robbed from, I guess we're not counting them because they don't have a team anymore. But obviously, the fans in the Bay Area are number one by far. Yeah. Yeah, but the Mariners are certainly top five. Yeah. I would probably put Colorado ahead of them.

I mean, look, my only defense here, and it really isn't much of a defense, but my only defense here for the Mariners is like, at least they do win a fair amount of games on the regular season. Like, I would rather have that than be in a bottom of the barrel team. I think the Rockies and the Marlins fans have more of right to be aggrieved. Tampa Bay fans, like, I know that's kind of an oxymoron, but I guess they win enough that, like, they're fine with it. But the Marlins don't win and they don't spend. The Rockies spend, but they spend stupidly, and they don't win. So I think those same with the Angels So I think those three probably ahead of Seattle and Oakland obviously

So if you include Oakland I would say at best Seattle should be fifth But yeah I mean they're in the right range certainly Yeah so yeah obviously it's incredibly Frustrating because they're on the cusp of doing something Amazing right like they have one of the best pitching steps in baseball if not the best pitching stuff in baseball. They have two superstars, Julio and Cal,

and some other really nice pieces around them. Like, they just need a little extra push, a little more faith put in them by ownership, and they just won't get that. Right? And we're not even asking, I mean, some fans are asking for this, but

we're not even asking for like Juan Soto, right? Just like, give us, you know, the Christian Walkers of the world or the Pete Alonzo's of the world without having to, you know, trade Luis Castillo to make room to make it happen. Can you at least do that, right? And the fact that they're not doing that, especially this offseason, all the while you're seeing the Astros better set themselves up for 20, 26 and beyond.

The Rangers have one of the best off seasons so far in Major League Baseball. And both of those teams spent, you know, beyond the luxury tax thrust. hold this past year. And meanwhile, you know, we're sitting here being like, well, I hope that they can, you know, maybe get to like 160 million. Like that would be great. Yeah. I mean, like they should be spending $200 million. Like based on the market size, based on the money that we know they're making, based on revenue. They shouldn't be spending $200 million easy. Yeah. And we can't even get them to commit to 160 for a team that has. has upwards of six to seven all-star players on it.

Now, whether or not they make the All-Star game, who cares? No, All-Sar caliber players, yeah. Julio, Cow, the four-starters, five starters, really. So, I mean, right there are seven. So, yeah, Randy. So the fact that we can't even get them to commit to, you know, 160, 80% of what they should be spending, Yeah, we have a lot of right to be aggrieved.

Especially considering how close they are. Because, like, I don't, I don't know. Like, I would hope a lot of the frustration for Mariner fans here is simply that they look at this and they see how close they are. Like, we are not far off from being where we need to be. I would hope that's where most of the frustration comes from and not just this place of, like, same old Mariners. Like, no, the Mariners haven't been this close to being like, a legitimate world series contender for 20 years. And they've just stopped.

They've stopped moving forward. And so, yeah, I do think that obviously, Mariners fans have a big right to be, to be mad right now. Yeah. Frankly, it is ridiculous that like the best free agent that we're kind of like hoping for here is Justin Turner.

Yep. And look, I, we've been at the forefront of talking about how like, you know, you don't need to spend the most money and you don't need to get X, I and Z on the free agent market in order to build a world series caliber baseball team. But right now the market is saying to you with arguably the best farm system in baseball,

or at least, you know, a top three farm system in baseball, we don't want your prospects. Okay, so how do you get better? Because you don't really have the major league pieces you can part with for other major league talent, where you feel that you're ultimately better at the end of the day. So you got to go out and you got to spend money. Yeah. and the well you're going to this market and it seems pretty clear to me at this point you're going to this market with you know if it is actually 16 to 20 million dollars and they don't have more than that as we you know we were talking about earlier on the show you're basically going to this market with 16 to 20 million dollars in your prospects and that's just not what the meta is right now and in the market so do you have to adjust yeah ownership has to be willing to adjust The front office has to be willing to adjust because like, yeah, this is ultimately a John Stanton problem, you know, an ownership problem.

But this also does become a Jerry Depoto and Justin Hollander problem as well. Right. I mean, by proxy. Like, like the idea that Jerry and Justin are like just totally chill with being screwed over on the budget over and over again, it's not accurate. They want more money. They would love more money. Of course they would. But at some point, you know, like ownership's not changing.

So either you can get it done with these limitations or you can't. And it's unfortunate that the limitations exist, but they do. And it's unfortunate that Jerry and or Justin are going to eventually end up being the scapegoat for ownership being terrible. But that is reality, unfortunately. And the sad part of that reality is there's very little you or I or I. or any of the fans can do about that. Yeah. So, yeah.

Yeah, I would say that ranking pretty much accurate. Yeah. So 2080 scale, I don't know, 65, 70. There's a couple of other teams that I probably put ahead of the Mariners, but they're definitely top five for sure. Definitely not falling out at the top 10. Yeah. But I would say probably five.

So before we get out of here, we already posted this on Twitter, but if you missed it, Our schedule is going to be a little bit different this week because of the holiday. So tomorrow we'll be doing CTZ Tuesdays, like always. We're going to be taking Wednesday off for the holiday. And then Thursday we'll do a new episode of CTZ and a new episode of locked on. And then Fan Fiction Friday, of course, on Friday. Obviously, that's subject to change if, you know, moves are made, whatever, all that stuff.

We reported last Christmas Eve. Yeah. So, but that's the plan as of now. So we won't see you guys again here until Thursday. So if you celebrate Christmas, Merry Christmas to you and yours. If you don't, happy holidays to you. And we'll get with you guys on Thursday. So that's going to do it for our show.

Thank you so much for joining us here on the lockdown Marrars podcast. For Colby Patnode, I'm Tiding Azales. Be sure to give us a follow on Twitter at L.O. underscore Marrars. You can follow me at Tiding Azales. And Colby at C-Pat 11. That's C-PAT-1. We're also on Blue Skopinodeode. You can follow me at TDG, Colby at MLB Colby, and the show at Lockdown Mariner's.

Have yourself a beautiful baseball day, and we'll see you next time. Peace.