Locked On Mariners - Daily Podcast On the Seattle Mariners - Carlos Santana or Justin Turner 'Likely' Coming Back: Which Veteran Should Mariners Pick?

Episode Date: November 22, 2024

The Mariners have been in touch with Carlos Santana and sources have told Adam Jude of The Seattle Times that a reunion with Santana or Justin Turner is "likely." Ty and Colby discuss which veteran the Mariners will bring back. Also, the non-tender deadline is Friday night and rumor has it Seattle might move on from Austin Voth and Josh Rojas. Plus, Cal Raleigh has dropped Scott Boras as his agent; does this mean an extension with the M's is more likely?Giveaway Terms & ConditionsCheck out our Patreon!Follow the show on Twitter: @LO_Mariners | @TyDaneGonzalez | @CPat11Follow the show on Bluesky: @lockedonmariners | @tdg | @mlbcolbySupport Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!SelectQuoteGet the right life insurance for YOU, for LESS, at SELECTQUOTE.COM/LOCKEDON.SelectQuote - They Shop. You Save.GametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONMLB for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime.FanDuelYou can start the season with a big return on FanDuel. New customers can place a FIVE DOLLAR bet and you’ll get started with ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS - if you win your first FIVE DOLLAR BET ! Visit FANDUEL.COM to get started. FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

A reunion with Justin Turner or Carlos Santana is reportedly likely for the Marriers. But which one will they choose? Or better yet, which one should they choose? We'll discuss that and more coming up here on the Locked On Marries podcast. Colby, hit it. You are Locked on Mariners. Your daily Seattle Mariners podcast. Part of the Locked On podcast network.

Your team every day. Ahoy, Sailors. It is Friday, November 22nd, 2024. This is Tadda Gonzalez and Colby Patnaud for the Lockdowne Marrers podcast. part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Got quite a bit to talk about on today's show. Going to talk some Justin Turner and Carlos Santana, get you set for tonight's tender deadline,

some chatter going around about Josh Rojas and awesome vote on that front. Cal Raleigh has also dumped Scott Boris as his agent, which naturally sent Marra's fans into a bit of a frenzy last night. But, of course, we're going to have to pump the brakes on that a little bit, as we tend to do here. Plus, it's Fanfiction Friday. We're still going to carve out a little bit of time for a couple of your trade ideas. But before we get into all that, shout out to our title sponsor today.

FanDuel. New customers can place a $5 bet and you'll get started with $150 in bonus bets if you win your first $5.00 bet. Visit FanDuel.com to get started. And if you want to hear from me and Colby even more and help support the show, check out our Patreon. All you have to do is click the link in the description of this episode. So Adam Jude yesterday reported that, uh, The Marrists have been in contact with Carlos Santana about a potential return. And obviously, the team has expressed public interest in bringing back Justin Turner as a couple of weeks ago.

And with all that information, sources have indicated to Jude that there's growing likelihood that the Marers are going to land one of those two guys. So, Colby, which one do you think the mirrors are actually going to land? and if it were up to you, who would you choose of the two guys? Sure, which one do I think they're going to land? Whichever one is willing to take less money would be my guess, which, you know, unfortunate that that's the way they might operate. And we don't know for sure. Maybe they're not going to operate that way, but it sure seems like it. Now, the mayor is very clearly here looking for, you know, veteran leadership.

It has been something that, you know, they haven't really had, at least the kind of the vocal leader. Like Hanager is a lead by example guy. But again, when you're struggling to perform, it's really tough to, you know, be the leader. And so the Mariners clearly looking to add some, you know, some veteran voices into this young, still young, but somehow also veteran clubhouse. So that's obviously what they're doing here. They're obviously looking for that type of leadership addition. I don't want to be so cynical, but it does seem like they'll take whichever one is cheapest. On the surface, you know, these are two players.

I think we should start here. Like, whether you're Team Santana or Team Turner, like, it's fine. Like, right, either one is fine. Very specifically what you want. And both carry pretty much the same risks, right? we're talking about a guy who's going to be 39 and a guy that's going to be 40. Sure, right. The cliff could come for either one of them at any time, which makes it not ideal.

But again, they're clearly looking for veteran leadership who has been here in this clubhouse and shown the leadership that, you know, the clubhouse respects. And they know it will work, right? They know that aspect will work with either of these guys. What's interesting about these two is that while they're both older players, like probably in the last year or two of their careers, and while they've both been here and they were both first baseman and they both carry that veteran leadership. It's pretty much where the similarity stops. Santana is a switch hitter. He has much more over-the-fence power than Justin Turner does.

And he is a plus defender at first base. In fact, he just won his first goal glove at 38 years old. Turner, on the other hand, is more of a slap hitter, probably average at best at first base. He right-handed hitter only. So it would seem in theory that the edge probably goes to Santana being the better player and a better fit as a first base deachman because of the power. I'm not so sure that's the case because there's one thing in particular about Santana that scares me quite a bit. That is that Carlos Santana has some pretty big split issues. he is not good against right-handed pitching,

which is kind of the most important place to be good. This last year against right-handed pitching, he hit 219, 318, 358 against right-handed pitching. Now, he absolutely crushed left-handed pitching, 161 WRC plus against left-handed pitching, but that's only going to be, you know, 200 of his 600 plate appearances. Against right-ease, he was a 96 WRC plus. So that's a little concerning versus a guy like Justin Turner who has no splits.

In 2024, Turner was a 119 WRC plus against lefties against Rides. He was a 116 WRC plus against them. So, you know, obviously there's some consistency there, right, versus left. You don't have to worry about Turner becoming a platoon or you worry less about that than you do with Santana. That's a huge bonus because, again, one of these guys is going to get 500 plate appearances, right? you want a guy that can do damage against both sides of the spectrum, right? You want a guy who hits lefties and a guy who hits righties. And Santana's a 96 WRC plus against righties.

So it's not like he's terrible against him, but 4% below average against, you know, the group of pitchers that you'll see 60, 65% of the time, probably, you know, a little bit more when, because late in games, teams will prioritize getting a righty in there against Santana. than, you know, than getting a lefty in there. Whereas Turner, again, there's really not that differentiator. He's good both against lefties and righties. Another thing that, you know, I kind of noticed here is that, you know, Justin Turner hit at T-Mobile Park.

Carlos Santana really didn't. Santana doesn't have good numbers at T-Mobile Park. When he was here in 2022, it was 200, 300, 400, 400. Like there's nothing special about that. So when you really look at it, who's more likely to hit and be an everyday bat? It's probably just in turn. Santana brings more power. Santana brings more defense, but it's first base defense.

So how valuable is that? And how valuable is being a switch hitter if your weakest side is the side that you have to hit from the most. So a lot of the things that seem like Santana advantages really aren't or aren't that big of an advantage. And that makes this a very interesting conversation. Like I said, I think either one is fine. But if I'm picking, I would pick Turner over Santana because I think that the bad is going to play better at Team Mobile Park. And because he doesn't have these splits, I feel like I can have him in there every

single day, which frees up Luke Rayleigh to do other things. Whereas with Santana, there's a chance, a pretty good one too. Then I'm going to pay $8 million for a, you know, a weekend, like a weak side platoon player. and I'm just going to have to platoon in with Luke Rayleigh. That's not what I want to do. I don't want to have to set up players that I know are going to have to platoon or higher risk of being platoon players. Santana is a higher risk of being a platoon guy and a weak side one than Turner is.

And so I think I'd rather give the job to Turner, all things being equal, which, again, they're not. But I'd prefer Turner. Now, if you're telling me Santana's going to cost five and Turner's going to cost eight, maybe, maybe. Sure. Yeah. But I think that Turner is the better. the better bet as weird. Another thing to keep in mind is Turner's bat speed is already as low as it gets.

Like he's got one of the slowest bats in baseball, still knows how to hit. Santana's bat speed, 50th percentile, if that takes another step back, can he adjust? Yeah. I don't know. We already know that Turner is adjusted. Right. And so, yeah, I just, I look at hitting a Team Mobile Park. I look at the split factor.

I don't care that much about first base defense because I don't think Turner is going to be egregious there and mostly Rayleigh will play first base if you get Turner anyway. So when I kind of combine all of it and I look at it, I think Turner's the clear choice for me. But again, it really just depends on what the mirrors. They both walk, right? They both don't strike out. Yeah. So two similarish players with some pretty key differences, I think, which leads me to value Turner a little bit more. We also need to address the clubhouse aspect of this, because this is obviously a big driving force of them going after either one of these guys. We heard from players coming out of the season that, you know,

they felt that they needed someone like Turner. And obviously, Santana had a big impact on the clubhouse in 2022. And obviously, Santana was Julio. And there's no working around that, right? That's a huge aspect of this. That's a huge, huge, massive aspect of this is that Julio, if you asked him, If you ask the face of your franchise, who he would prefer, he would say Carlos Santana. I would imagine.

Yeah. So, yeah, that's a really big element to this. And how much does that impact the decision? How much does Julio's influence over this impact the decision weighed against really the rest of the clubhouse? Because, again, more of these guys are more so used to Turner. Dan Wilson only knows Justin Turner. It's a big factor there, too. Like if Scott's service was still here, you might give the edge to Santana.

But it's Dan Wilson. Dan Wilson doesn't have a relationship with Santana, at least not as, as, you know, big of one as he has with Turner. Never managed Santana. So, yeah, yeah, there's a lot of little, you know, X factors here. But again, that's why ultimately, I think tie both you and I would say, yeah, whichever one they get, fine. I mean, you hope that that's the third best hitter they add this offseason, not the second best hitter or the best even. but you know you hope that they're the third guy and like again if the mares prefer santana because of hulio because of the switch hitting element because of the power the defense like fine whatever they

prefer turner because he was just here he hit at team mobile park something santana doesn't do uh and he doesn't have split concerns like fine that that's fine too like i think you can make the argument for either one uh and we'll just you know nip this in the bud right now you can't have both doesn't make any sense to get both. You have one DH spot to give. You're still going to have to work in Luke Rayleigh. So, you know, Rayleigh and... And again, these guys are 39 and 40 years old.

Right. Well, by the time we get to the season, they will be. Right. So, yeah, I think that when you combine all those factors, right? I think the edge should go to Justin Turner. But yet again, this is one of the few times. we will not be divided on this show. If they signed Santana instead of Turner, that's fine.

If they signed Turner instead of Santana, that's fine. Like, there is no wrong answer here. The differences to me are negligible, frankly. And it really comes down to things that we probably are not privy to. Right. So, again, either one is fine. Yeah. And as long as they're the third best bat that you bring in this winter,

I think both of them make a lot of sense. All right. So the non-tender deadline is coming up here at 8 o'clock Easter and 5 o'clock Pacific. There's some rumblings about Josh Rojas and awesome vote going around right now. So we'll talk a little bit about that as well as Cal Raleigh dumping Scott Boris as his agent. Just a moment. But first, a reminder, this episode of the Lockdownerrorist podcast is brought to you by Game Time. So I used to live in New Mexico and down in New Mexico there are zero pro sports teams and a lot of bands and artists I listen to skip going there more often than not.

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for $20.L-L-C-D-O-N-M-LB for $20 off. Download GameTime today. What time is it? GameTime. And you're listening to the Locked-On Airs podcast. So before we get back into things here, Hey, we're running a giveaway right now. Colby, tell the fine folks what we got going on. Yeah, most of you guys know this by now, but it's, you know, in case you're just checking in for the first time, maybe you just got your power back from the bomb cyclone. But yeah, we're doing a giveaway.

You can win some of my stuff as it usually is. But Ty's also thrown a little bit of skin into this game. It's a very simple process, like most of our giveaways, to enter incredibly simple. Make sure you're subscribe to the channel. and just leave a comment on any of the videos we post while the contest is going on. Once we reach certain plateaus, certain milestones with our subscriber count, we're giving stuff away for each one of those to celebrate.

So what's already going to be given away, we've already reached these milestones, somebody out there who subscribes to the channel, leaves a comment on any of these videos, is going to walk away with this Mitch Hanager autograph card. This is when he was with Milwaukee, guys. so it's basically like a rookie card. And somebody is going to win this Andres Munoz autograph card.

Very nice. When we reach our next milestone, 12.3K, if we reach it, I should say. We got about a little bit more than a week to do it. Then somebody will walk away with this Mike Cameron autograph card and a $25 gift certificate to Simply Seattle from Ty to get you to get you some swag. like this hat I got for about $25. I also got this hat from Simply Seattle. Yep, there you go. So if we get to 12.4K,

we'll be given away this lovely numbered autograph, Victor Robles card, really gorgeous card, probably the best looking card that we're giving away. That's for 12.4. If we get to 12.5, we will be giving away this autographed Cow Raleigh card.

And the person who wins this card will also win. win a $50 gift certificate from Simply Seattle. So again, all you have to do to enter, subscribe to the channel, leave us a comment on any of the videos until I believe December 1st is the last day. So terms and conditions are in the comments down below. Just click them for all the details. But again, to enter, so simple. Subscribe, comment.

That's it. That's it. And you've already subscribed? Get somebody else to subscribe. Maybe they'll give you the card if they win. So yeah, very simple giveaway. Take some of my, you know, prized autograph cards. Take some money out of Ties pocket.

Again, somebody's going to walk away with the Hanager and the Munoz right now. We need a hundred more. And then you can take $25 out of Ties pocket while also getting, you know, on my camera and autograph card, which is pretty cool if you ask me. So yeah, thanks guys. And, you know, again, subscribe, comment. That's it. All right.

So let's see if I can fight. through my sore throat here to get into this next segment. This has been a hell of a show to record. Yeah, I don't know. Well, what was me? I'd say something right now, but I don't want you to have to. Yeah, no. Yeah, no.

Thank you for keeping that to yourself. No, no, I have no interest in downloading that from YouTube and putting it in here. You know how lazy I am. All right. So Adam Jude took to Blue Sky last night for his first set of tweets there. And had something interesting to say. The acquisition this week of another left-handed bat, Austin Shenton, makes Josh Rojas

and his projected $4 million salary, a non-tender candidate. And today on Twitter, he has reiterated that Rojas, as well as Austin both are non-tender candidates for the mayor is before the non-tender deadline comes up here at 8 o'clock Eastern, 5 o'clock Pacific. So seems like Trent Thornton might be safe. Radio Rosarana, Cal Raleigh, George Curry, Logan Gilbert, we know those guys are

going to get picked up. And it also seems that Taylor Sosato and Gabe Spire, they're going to be tendered contracts as well, which we've talked about in the past. Those guys are barely above the league minimum anyway in terms of their projections. So, yeah, why not? J.T. Chagua was already DFAid.

So there's your answer on him and then Luis Arias was outright released a few weeks ago. So, yeah. I also can't imagine Sam Haggertie's going to get tendered. Oh yeah, that's right. Yeah, we haven't heard about Haggurty yet, but yeah, coming off of a torn Achilles and he's out of minor league options. Yeah. I don't think it would make any sense. Like yeah. It's not like 900,000 like a healthy Sam Haggertie is he worth a million bucks? Yes. Yes. Yeah. But he's out of options. He's coming off of a major injury. Yeah.

So you would just non-tender him and try and sign them back on a minor league contract. Which he'd probably be open to. Yeah. So you would think. You would think, yeah. So if it winds up being Voth and Rojas getting non-tendered here, and I have heard that it does seem like that's going to happen at some point today. What do you think?

Yeah, I think both is worth the $2 million. He was pretty good this last year. and I think people overlook that. But, you know, again, the Mariners, do they think they can recreate Austin Voth for less than $2 million? Well, I mean, they literally just did it. Now is the risk that you can't recreate Austin Voth, you know, is that risk worth saving $1.25 million when you're a, you know, $3 billion entity? Probably not. You should probably just pay the guy.

But, you know, there's also. want to open up 40 man spots, blah, blah, blah. So both is, you know, I think I'd just pay him the $2 million. Rojas, yeah, we talked about this. Ty and I, I believe we both non-tendered him in our offseason plans. It's just $4 million for a guy who can't hit and plays third base is a good chunk of change. And so I'm not too surprised if they don't tender him. that being said, if they did decide to tender him, like, I don't think it's egregious.

I don't think it's the worst idea in the world. It's just one of those things where it's like, can you do better than Josh Rojas for $4 million? I would say they probably already are with Dylan Moore, who's making about $3 million. And so, yeah, you want to replace Rojas on your roster. But you just, you can't ignore the basically four and a half months where Josh Rojas was the worst offensive player in, you know, in Major League Baseball, essentially, for four and a half months. Josh Rojas was the worst offensive player in, you know, in Major League Baseball, essentially, for four and a half months. He was terrible, and he plays a premium offensive position. And so the defense can only carry you so far in that regard.

So the acquisition of Shitten gives them more depth in that corner infield spot. So maybe just maybe, you know, they're more comfortable doing that. That seems to be what Jude is implying. We'll have to wait and see. But that one to me is still a true 50-50. I can see them going either way on that. But ultimately, I think non-tendering him is probably the best thing to do. Because even if you think, well, we might be able to trade him,

it's like you're gambling $4 million that you can trade this guy. Yeah. If you have no interest in keeping him on your roster, you're running the risk of having to eat that $4 million for the hope of maybe trading him for what, a 27-year-old reliever with trades? or like having him be the third or fourth guy of a bigger trade. I mean, can you get like a Thai Cummings back for him? Like, you know what I mean?

Like that type of. Great. Yeah. Because like when I look at what like Eli Morgan just went for and some of these other guys that have gotten traded over the last few days, Josh Ross isn't going to command that much in a trade. He's not. No.

So, yeah. Like if you're going to tender him, you have to be willing to carry him all year. Like that that's kind of the like if we tender him and we can't trade him, by the end of spring training, how badly is that going to hurt? And if the answer is at all, then you should just not tender them. It's not worth the risk for what you might get back. So this also, in a way, maybe I'm playing a fool's game here, but whatever, I'm a Maris fan.

That's all I do. It does make me a little hopeful here that they have higher hopes for what they could do at third base and or second base. I just moving on from Rojas. Carlos Santana and Justin Turner on the corners is going to be something. But yeah, I mean, perhaps they feel pretty good that like, hey, you know, we like the conversations we've had so far. Obviously, we move on from Rojas, you know, we kind of need both second base and third base now. We just can't fake it with Dylan Moore and Josh Rojas at one of those spots. And I would hope that's what they would be thinking, not like, well, you know, worst case scenario, Dylan Moore is the everyday second baseman.

No. Austin Shetton played second base. You're going to put him there? No. No, not acceptable. So we'll see what they do with Rojas. Right now I'm leaning towards they probably non-tender him. And that doesn't mean he can't come back.

If they can work out a cheaper deal, he very well could be back. But right now I'm leaning towards a non-tender him and both, and they're going to tender everybody else. It's kind of what, how the room is reading right now. Well, everybody but Haggerty. And I really can't complain about. any of that. That that's all totally fine. It's all, you know, like I said, I would like both to be around next year,

but is it a reasonable gamble to take that you can recreate awesome both for the league minimum? Yeah, that's reasonable. So yeah, yeah, nope. I don't think there's going to be any big surprises. I really don't think there's going to be any mariner trades for any of these guys. The marers might acquire somebody who gets,

you know, is about to be non-tendered, which they kind of did last year with Eureas. Hopefully it works out better than that, but they literally also just did it for, well, I mean, not because it wasn't going to be non-tendered. They did it for us in Shinton. That's the guy, hey,

this guy's going to be out of our 40 man if we don't get something for him. So the mayor swooped in and got him. So yeah, I could see them making a trade like that, but I don't think they're going to bring back. I don't think that they're going to be able to trade, you know,

Josh Rojas before, you know, five o'clock. Yeah. So last night, news came down that Cal Raleigh dropped Scott Boris as his agent. So at the very, least on that front, we no longer have to talk about the Boris element when it comes to a

potential Raleigh extension. Now, everyone thinks that this suddenly means that an extension is close with Raleigh and the Mariners. I don't think that indicates that at all because, look, this stuff happens a lot. Players switch agencies all the time. Raleigh, for those curious, has moved on to Excel Sports. As his representation, I don't know whose specific agent is. now, but, you know, it could be a plethora of things here for Raleigh that led him to making this decision. I mean, one, Boris's clients haven't really done that well on the market over the last year. So that might scare him a little bit.

His reputation has taken a hit the last few years. Yeah. So that's probably. And also. And Boris, too, is such a big agent with so many big clients. I mean, you know, hello, Juan Soto this year. Right. that, you know, maybe Raleigh feels like he's not getting the time and attention that he deserves from his agent.

Right. I mean, he's entering arbitration. He's three years away from free agency. He's a catcher with a lot of wear and tear. So, yeah, I think, you know, I saw this news and my immediate reaction was not like, oh, the Mariners have a shot to sign Cal Raleigh now. They always did. If the Mariners won an extension, if Cal Rale wants an extension, it doesn't matter who the agent is. they would get something done. Okay. Now, thankfully, I don't have to say that anymore

because there's no, Will Scott Boris won't let Cal Raleigh sign with the Mariners? That's not how it works. That is not how it works. He has notoriously advised his clients not to sign extensions. We do know that. Right. But advised.

Not demanded. Yeah. Not forced. Right. Agents work for the players. Period. Okay. But thankfully now,

we shouldn't have a problem with that because Scott Bores isn't a mariner problem. Yeah, we don't have to talk about that element of things here. And that is the only thing I took away from the news last night. I was like, oh, thank God. That's one less thing I get to yell about. And we get to get stupid questions about. Sure. Thank God.

Ultimately, what is this news actually? It's no news. Yeah. I don't think it's indicative of anything on the horizon. or less likely that Cal Raleigh is a mariner beyond the 2027 season. No impact whatsoever on that. Cut to like tomorrow when he signs an extension with

and that's probably something that the Mariners and his previous agency had already started talking about. So, I mean, maybe on that front, maybe there have been conversations about an extension and maybe one of the reasons that he moved off of Boris is because Boris wasn't getting him to the point that he wanted to get to in those negotiations. I mean, yeah.

It's just one of those things where it's like, look, players change agents all the time. It rarely means anything. And once again, because the agent works for the players, Dia really has very little power in the grand scheme of things. So is it more likely that the Mariners are going to get an extension done with Cal Raleigh now? No. Is it less likely? Also no. It's no news.

All right. Let's switch gears here. It's fan fiction Friday after all. We're still going to make some time for a couple of your trade ideas in just a moment. But first, a reminder, this episode of the Lockdown Merritts podcast is once again brought to you by Fandul. Get ready to tackle the NFL action with Fandul, America's number one sportsbook, because right now new customers can bet $5 and get $150 back in bonus bets if you win. The Fandual Sportsbook app gives you everything you need to place live bets on the NFL all in one place.

So when you get a hunch in the middle of the game, you can check out the latest stats, view live play-by-play, and so much more on the same page where you place your bets. Just visit fendool.com to join today. You'll get started with $150 in bonus bets if you win your first $5 bet. That's fanduel.com. Never waste a hunch and make every moment more with Fanduel, an official sportsbook partner of the NFL. And you're listening to the Locked-on Mariners podcast. It is Friday. So therefore it is still fan fiction Friday, even though that we haven't gone over any of your trades yet.

But we're still going to make time for at least a couple of years. So let's get into him. Darren McCacken and Joyer has one here with the Marlins. Oh, oh boy. Oh, buddy. Hazu Sanchez, Darren McCacken for Brock Rodin, Louis Swee Spell, and Jimmy Joyce. Hasu Sanchez. I've had interest in him in the past.

He hits the ball very hard. I do feel like there's a breakout season in. coming there. But he's an outfielder. Mariners are pretty set there, right? Like, I don't know Sanchez cracks a starting lineup for the Mariners. And he's not really a fourth outfield type, doesn't play great defense, not a center fielder.

So he doesn't really fit there a ton. So, yeah, I mean, you're not giving up a ton. Rodin, sweet spell, Jimmy Joyce. Those are all kind of, you know, probably four. A type of guys, if that even. Maybe Roden is like a nice utility man at the big league level, but that could take another year or two, and he's already 24, 25.

Jimmy Joyce is like a worse version of like Emerson Hancock. Whoopty-do, who cares? That's a real insult right there coming from you. Right. I just like, whatever. Poor Jimmy Joyce. I mean, like, cool, you're good in double A, but so is Emerson Hancock.

so who cares. It doesn't mean anything. You don't have major league stuff. Like, sorry, Jimmy. You know, it's not me. It's you.

But, yeah, he's just, whatever. Like, these are three players that, like, the Mariners could just,

like, flat out release them. And we'd be like, oh, okay. Like, that would be our reaction. Like,

huh. So, yeah, you're not going to up a ton for Sanchez. But I think you have to give up something to get Sanchez. And the fact that you have to get Sanchez. Oh, something to get Sanchez.

who is probably going to be your fifth outfielder, and that's if the team actually does the right thing and moves on from Mitch Hanigar. He's just not really a fit. So the whole trade just, you know, valuations off a little bit. You have some scrub mac again or whatever coming back in the deal.

I don't know what he does for the Mariners. So, yeah, I would say that this is like, I don't know, 30. Sanchez requires more. Like you need a bigger headliner than Rodin. And I'm talking about a much bigger headliner. Now I'm not talking about like Harry Ford, but I'm also not talking about Brock Rodin here. Probably like Ben Williamson.

Maybe a little more. Maybe like Brandon Garcia. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe Tapeet. Yeah. Yeah. And in all seriousness,

McCacken and Joyce, they're like the same pitcher. They're just like, number five, number six guys that you stash in AAA, whatever, right? They're really not. Darma Kacken had a big save against the Minnesota Twins. Did he? What could have been a big game for the Mariners?

Is that the game where Jonah Bride or whatever? I believe so, yeah. Hit like two homers, had like six RBI. I believe so. It was one of those games when the mirrors needed help from the Marlins. I'll say this. It is an 80 grade commitment to the bit by the Darren McCacken, enjoyer.

But this is a 30-grade trade. Yeah. Yeah. Moving on. M's to the Moon, aka at Colby's Burner. Marlins receive, it's another Marlins deal.

It's actually a three-team deal. Yeah. Marlins receive Tyler Locklear and then from the Padres Boston Bateman and Braden Net. Padres get Jesus Lazzardo and the Mariners get Louisa Rise.

Colby, you picked all these trades. Why did you pick this one? I wanted to talk a little bit about Louisa Rise. I don't know who Boston Bademan is, but if that's a real player, great name. We love alliteration. Yeah. But I want to talk about Luis Arise in the sense that he makes no sense for the Mariners. He's not a very good player.

He's really not. He's going to make 12, 14 million bucks this year for one year. He's a slap hitter, slap hitting first base. only like he's he's not a very good player you know cool he hits 3 30 his on base is going to be 3 30 like he doesn't walk he doesn't hit for power he doesn't play defense he doesn't run the bases he is like think of like each yearo and I'll take away everything else each euro did that was really good and you have louis sir hold on hold on hold on base stuff like career 323 hitter with 372 on base uh what happens when he's a 270 hitter or a 270 hitter or a 2

80 hitter. That he'll probably be like a 3.30 on base, 325. Well below average slug. And he can only play first base. Like he's not a second base. Sure. But I wanted to push back a little bit on the whole like, oh, his on base is basically going to be the same as his average.

No. Sure. But he's not a good player. Like overall, he is not a good. He is a soft hitting first baseman. Okay. Now that being, all that being said, if I can get him for just Locklear,

which is all the Mariners are given up in this trade. Like fine. Cool. That works. But I have no interest in signing him to an extension. When he's a free agent next year, I'm not interested in him at all. Because at some point, the cliff will come for a rise and that batting average will drop significantly. And once that happens, he's a worthless player.

He's Thai France with less power. Like, Louisa. Didn't he really like Luis Arise like two years ago? What happened? I grew up. He was basically the same player. then. Well, yeah, but he also could play a little bit of second base. Now he can't do that.

So yeah, Luis Arise overrated player. He's just a singles merchant. Sure. And at least when Ichro was a singles merchant, he was stealing bags, playing gold glove defense, hosing guys out at third base and would occasionally

drop a bomb. Like, Arise is just not that good of a player. But again, if I can get him for Tyler Locklear, and that's it. That's all I have to give up to get that done. Fine. I mean, you're still paying, what, $12 million for him? And I don't think he's worth $12 million. I think he's probably worth closer to $8.

But again, if it's for one year, fine, you live with it. I don't know enough about the guys that the Padres are getting, or sorry, the Marlins are getting for Lissardo. And that part makes it seem light. I don't quite know how to value Lazzardo right now because he's got the back issue, he's got injuries, he's got a couple years left.

I really like Lassardo. And that does feel like a Padres target. It really does, honestly. So I actually think the idea in general is pretty fun. Like it's a pretty for a three team deal especially. Sure. Like it feels, you know, you get bonus points for that because obviously it's more difficult. It feels not terrible.

But again, I just don't know enough about Braden Net and Boston Bateman, which are both great names, by the way. I just, I don't know enough about them to give this a good grade one way or another. but the idea in general, maybe it costs a little bit more. Like, it's fine. It's totally fine. Again, I'm not a big Luisarize fan in case you guys didn't catch on to that. But yeah, I had no clue after the last three minutes. I feel like this is probably like, I don't know, like 50.

I just, I'm not quite sure how to value Lazzardo in the trade. My hunch is that it'll cost more for Lazzardo to go to the Padres. And my hunch is that the Mariners would have to make up the difference. Yeah. Yeah, I think the Marrers would have to give up more than just Tyler Locklear here. Right. Now,

I don't think it's like significantly more. I just think it's, there's probably another piece here that's missing. But even if it's like Brandon Garcia, I'm like, I'm probably out at that Locklear and Garcia for one year of Louisa Rice. Not terrible, but.

So. I'd probably do it. But, uh, yeah. I mean, like if they did, you're like,

okay. That's fine. What's going to be really annoying is when a rise is the guy they decide to actually pay and extend. I don't really know how to value a rise. I don't really know how to value Lizardo. I'll just give this a 50. Yeah. I know that's a really boring answer, but I think it's a 45 or a 50 because I think it's a little light on the Mariners side of things. But again, I don't really like Boston Bateman and now, to be fair, I don't have like an encyclopedic knowledge of other farm systems. Sure. But I feel like in this deal, Miami has to get somebody that I've heard of.

Like that's that's kind of like the, you know, that's like the bar. It's like, oh, I've heard of that guy. Like I know what position that guy plays at least. Like, sure. Okay. If I haven't heard of you, you're probably not a good enough prospect. But also, again, I, how much do I know about the Padres farm system? Not a lot outside of Ethan Salas.

Sure. Well, this is getting bookended by a just a strict deal with the Padres. So we've had a Mariners, Marlins' deal. We've had a Mariners, Marlins' Padres deal. Now we just have a Mariners' Padres deal. It's almost like somebody set that up. Alex's trade here has the mayor is getting Jake Croninworth and about $12 million spread across the contract

to make Croninworth's deal about $10 million a year for Brandon Garcia and Jimmy Joyce. Jake Cronernerworth, actual good infielder. It's true. Yeah. Feels light. But again, the Padres, like in general, are just a really tough team to get a kind of a good grasp on because they probably have to cut payroll. Yeah.

Because they were a team that was operating with pretty major losses over the last few years. In fact, they had to take out, I think, of $50 million in loans to try and cover their payroll the last few years. And Major League Baseball did not like that whatsoever. And it sounds like they're going to kind of force the Padres. to divest a little bit here. So could Coronerworth become available? Yes, he could be. Could it be available for what I would say is this cheap?

Probably not, especially if the Padres are getting money. So Cronerworth also has a pretty long-term deal. I think he's got five years left on his deal. He's already 30. So he's not a great hitter. He is a great athlete who should not be playing first base. he should be playing second base or third base. He has some on base skills, has some pop, not a ton, though.

So he probably best fits at second base. Again, Cronerworth long been a fan of his. I think he's a great fit for the Mariners. This feels light to me, even with the Padres, like needing to divest and all that stuff. Because Cronerworth, if he's only going to make $10 million a year, even if it's for the next five years, even if you're counting on like the last year or two of that to be kind of, you know, disappointing. Brandon Garcia feels light.

It just it feels a little light to me. So, you know, it's nice. We haven't talked a lot about, uh, Corona worth, uh, this off season so far. And I still. You and I have, but like an off air. Right. For the most part. Like, yeah, we're, we're big Corona worth, uh, guys, uh, here.

So I like the idea. I think it's going to cost more. So I would probably give this one a 40. I think it's probably going to be just a little bit more expensive. Yeah. Uh, but how, how expensive, like how much more do you have to add to Garcia? I think it at least needs a Tai Pete.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking it's. And, you know, the Padres love tools, right? They really like guys with raw tools. And so I think a guy like Pete would be super interesting to them. Maybe even, they might even ask for Johnny Farmello. To me, it feels like a like a Tai Pete Gregory Santos and then like a lottery ticket. Probably. Because that way they get somebody who helps them in, you know, in 2025.

and then they get like an upside potential long-term replacement. And plus, you know, one other thing to keep in mind here, if the Padres can't resign Hassan Kim, which doesn't seem like they're going to be able to. Yeah. They could just move Croninworth around the infield. They can move Bogart's back to short and they could just have Cronerworth by second.

So yeah, again, this really comes down to if we assume the Padres have to shed payroll and Croninworth is a guy they're going to try and do that with it. we assume both of those, this is still a little bit light. I feel like, I feel like you need at least another Brandon Garcia. And I hope you don't because if the Mariners could get Coronaworth for this and they got him for this tomorrow, we'll throw the parade ourselves because that is a heck of a deal. So I'll say 40.

It's just a little light. Yeah. All right. Well, that's going to do it for our show. Thank you so much for joining us here on the lockdown on Marrars podcast for Colby Patnode. I'm Tadangonzalez. Be sure give us a follow on Twitter at Elewaters. core mariners. You can follow me at Tiding Azales and Colby at CPAT 11. That's CPAT 1-1.

We're also on Blue Sky. You can follow me at TDG, Colby at MLB Colby, and the show at Locked-on Mariners. Have yourself a beautiful baseball day and we'll see you next time. Peace.