Locked On Mariners - Daily Podcast On the Seattle Mariners - Did the Mariners Actually Upgrade at Backup Catcher? Could Jeimer Candelario Replace Eugenio Suárez?

Episode Date: November 23, 2023

Colby and Ty sift through the aftermath of the Eugenio Suárez trade, diving into whether or not the Mariners upgraded at backup catcher with Seby Zavala, if the team could turn to Jeimer Candelario as a replacement for Suárez, and if clubhouse leadership is a bigger need this offseason than initially thought now that Suárez and (likely) Tom Murphy are gone.Follow the show on Twitter: @LO_Mariners | @danegnzlz | @CPat11Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!FanDuelScore early this NFL season with FanDuel, America’s Number One Sportsbook! Right now, NEW customers get ONE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLARS in BONUS BETS with any winning FIVE DOLLAR MONEYLINE BET! That’s A HUNDRED AND FIFTY BUCKS – if your team wins! Visit FanDuel.com/LOCKEDON to get started.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's the day after the A. Eugenio Swares trade, and there's still a lot to talk about, like Sabia Zavala being all but confirmed to be the Marin's backup catcher in 2024. So how do we feel about that instead of a reunion with Tom Murphy? Plus, despite reports saying Luis Urias is lined up to be the team's everyday third basement in 2024, it looks like they might actually be sniffing around on other options in the market. And finally, with Suarez and Murphy gone, the Marins have lost a ton of leadership in the clubhouse. So how do they fill that void? We'll discuss on today's Thanksgiving episode of the Locked-on Marrars podcast. Colby, hit it. You are Locked-on Mariners. Your daily Seattle Mariners podcast, part of the Locked-on

podcast network, your team every day. Oh, hoys, sailors. It is Thursday, November 23, 20-23 happy Thanksgiving to those who celebrate, and thank you so much for taking the time out of your activities to join us today. This is tighting as all. And Colby Patnaud for the Locked on Maris podcast. Thank you so much for making us to your first. Listen, subscribe, like, internal alerts if you're watching on YouTube or subscribe and leave a five-star review on your preferred podcast platform if you like what you hear. And if you're part of the crew and rock with us every single day, let us know in the comments below. We'd love to hear from you. And if you want to hear from us even more, please consider signing up for our Patreon. You now get a free seven-day trial to

check out the show. The link as well as our social accounts is in the description of this episode. So on the show today, we'll be covering the aftermath of the A. E. E. E. E. E. Hore's trade and tying up some loose ends that we weren't able to get to during yesterday's reaction. episode like the Mariners seemingly addressing their backup catcher spot. Jamir Candelario being mentioned as a third base option for the marries by John Marosi and how the Mariners have lost a good amount of leadership with the departures of Suarez and Tom Murphy. This is going to be a pretty chill show.

So, you know, grab a plate, grab a drink. Let's talk some ball for the next 30 or so minutes. We're going to start here with the catcher situation, Colby. Seby Zavala looks to be all but confirmed to be the Mariners backup catcher in 2024. Jerry DePoto pretty much said as much in his press release following the Suarez trade, said, I'm paraphrasing, but I think he pretty much said that the expectation is that Savala and Raleigh are going to team up to make up that catching unit for the Mariners, at least by opening day.

So that means that the door is pretty much all but closed on Tom Murphy, on a potential return for Tom Murphy. So what do you think about that? I think that while Ty may love Thanksgiving, I'm the only one with a Seattle Mariners Thanksgiving hat, as you can see. That's right. As for the backup catcher situation, I think there is a small chance that Murphy could be back.

Seveezevi as much as I love him already. No guarantee to make the opening day roster. It's not a big deal of he doesn't. But I think there's a outside shot that Tom Murphy goes out looking for, his starting catcher job. The league looks at a 32, 33-year-old with declining defense who can't stay healthy and says, thanks, but no thanks. And if everybody is offering a backup catcher job and nobody's willing to go too much above

the minimum, it might make sense for Tom Murphy to come back to Seattle to be the backup catcher on a near minimum deal. So there's an outside shot that he comes back. I mean, you can't really rule it out until he signs elsewhere, but we can more or less. rule it out. So, yeah, you know, I wish Tom a lot of luck if he does go elsewhere. But you can certainly understand where the Mariners are coming from. Murphy has been really good when he's been able to play.

But I think he played, what, 14 games in 2022 in like 43, 44 games last year. You can't even rely on the guy to be a backup. He's going to get hurt as the backup catcher. So you can't, you know, it's, we don't want to run Cal, into the ground, but you don't want to give, you know, Brian O'Keefe and Luis Turenz 20 starts in two months. So you have to find a solution. You have to be willing to kind of absorb that inevitable Tom Murphy loss. And so I think it makes sense to go out and get Savala, a guy who's, you know, been healthier than Murphy, who at least brings, you know, I think we can say elite defense behind the plate and does have some offensive ups.

he does have good pole power. He did have one year in a 70 game sample where he was a good hitter. He was almost a two-one player in 2022. So I get it. I totally get it from the Mariners standpoint. And in a vacuum, if you're telling me it's Zavala, Sebi Zevi for the league minimum or Murphy for,

I don't know, four or five million bucks. I totally understand why the Mariners were like, no, we'll just go this route. And the Mariners also protected themselves from Zavala if he if he doesn't hit at all they went out and they got Blake Hunt so they have improved their catcher depth certainly in the high minors so yeah I totally get why the

mayors would do this you know I understand why they're comfortable with Zavala being the backup to start the year and I understand why they might look at Tom Murphy and just be like we can't do this again like we can't continue to you know rely on Murphy and then by extension because we rely on Murphy. Now we have to rely on Brian O'Keefe and Luis Turenz and, you know, Jacob Nottingham. Like I totally get why they decided to just go with some safety. Because, again, even as of all, it doesn't hit.

And you just kind of roll with that backup catcher for a few months until you feel like Blake Hunt is ready or until you feel like, you know, there's a better option out there for you. At the very least, he's going to give you elite defense. And that is not nothing from the catcher position. Yeah, so yesterday I said at the end of the show that I think you could actually make a strong argument that the Mariners upgraded their backup catcher position. And that, to me, though, says a bit more about the state of Tom Murphy rather than Zavala. And it's not a dis on Murphy, but he's been oft injured.

He's coming off of another injury short in season. He's going to play most of 2024 at age 33. and his primary value is that he gives you above average offensive production from a position that doesn't really feature that. You don't get a lot of that. There are very few catchers in the league that produce offensively, especially at the level that we've seen from Murphy over about almost 500 played appearances over three good seasons, 2019, the 14 games in 2022. and then this year, this past season.

And again, that's a pretty small sample size, though, spread out over the course of, you know, four years, really. So I, my concern really is, is Murphy going to be able to sustain that level of offense at age 33, given the injuries? And, you know, more specifically, and obviously this wouldn't be the case in Seattle, unless, you know, Cal Raleigh unfortunately went down.

But if he does get a starting job elsewhere, is he going to get over exposed? So those are really my concerns with Murphy and why I think, you know, it might not have been as much of a slam dunk as even I thought bringing him back. That maybe it didn't make as much sense. Now that we have the context of the Mariners are likely moving on here, that Savala is going to be the backup catcher in 2024. Now that we have that, I have thought deeper about. it comes to the realization that it's just there's a lot of concerns about Murphy there are a lot of

flaws with the Murphy idea and again that's that's nothing against Tom Murphy it's just kind of the reality of the situation it's the unfortunate reality of his injury history and you know he's getting older now and he's not a good defender he hasn't been a good defender for a while last year he really struggled in controlling the run game he allowed 27 stolen bases on 28 attempts and that's been an under rate of flaw of the Mariners for a while now is controlling opponent's run games. And that's obviously not just a catcher issue, right? That's also a pitcher issue. But I think it's something that Zavala can help them with a bit.

Now, that's not particularly the strongest part of his defensive profile either. He's been below average in terms of things like pop time. But I think it's something that it's still definitely an improvement. from what Murphy was giving you. And Zavala gives you just a more traditional backup catcher situation. You know, I think for the last few years, we've been kind of with the catching situations in Seattle

since basically 2019 when they had Omar and Arvayas and Austin Nola and Tom Murphy, where they had these highly offensive productive catchers, which is not normal. That's very, very unique to have what the mayors have had lately. Um, and, you know, look, at the end of the day, Cal Raleigh is going to be doing most of the catching. Zavala is probably only going to start for you, you know, a couple times a week. You know, at most he's probably starting 65 to 70 games if all things go well in 2024.

I don't really have high expectations for him offensively. I know he had the good year, the really good year in 2022, but I don't think that's anything that you should be banking on. If I had to guess, he's probably a 70 to 80 WRC plus guy in 2024, which whatever. That's most backup catchers. And the way that you overcome. With his defense, that's probably still a one-win player. Still one-in-one player. That's still a fine bench piece to have.

That's still a fine backup catcher. And, you know, the way that you overcome having the black hole in your lineup, you know, a couple times a week, build a lineup that can survive that. So you do that. You can live with that if you build a quality enough lineup. So, yeah, it's just to me, it's just, you know, they're going to a more traditional catching situation. Fine. And if it helps them make more strides defensively, it helps them address a very key flaw of theirs defensively, which Cal was obviously very good at in the second half of this year.

If he can carry that over into 2024 and Zavala can give them a little bit of a boost in that regard, compared to Murphy, that I think they have upgraded a backup catcher. But it really, I think it all boils down to what you value the most from your backup catcher. Sure. I would just see, you know, don't, don't sleep on, on Zevi's bat. You know, if it's anywhere near 100, that's not a black hole. So, and again, I would also add, don't sleep on Blake Hunt.

That's a pretty important acquisition here. That's a guy who's close to Major League Ready, if not Major League Ready. and he profiles a lot like Tom Murphy, you know, plus power. There's some questions about whether or not he can, you know, put up a good average, whether or not he can, you know, he's a, it's power overhead. And he's a pretty good defender, though, unlike Tom. But that's pretty much the profile of Tom Murphy when he was coming up as well. So they could be looking at this going like, hey, look, we have Zavala as, as the backup plan here.

But there's a non-zero chance if Blacont comes up and he's basically Tom Murphy, just, you know, for $4 million. dollars less. So we'll see. But I feel okay with where the Mariners catchers are right now, where they're at in that position. And I also wouldn't be shocked if they added somebody like Austin Nola on a minor league deal to get him into spring training. Yeah. Again, you know, Murphy's

value comes from the bat. And if the bat isn't going to be present, he's not really a valuable piece because of the defense, because of the lapses in his defense. So I think from that perspective, it's fine. Again, I think the argument here more is, it says more

about the state of Tom Murphy rather than Zavala. I think you know, you replace Zavala with any defensively catcher and the fact remains the same, essentially. But yeah, yeah, you know, maybe there is some upside there in the end of all is bad.

I mean, again, he's one year removed from posting a 110 WRC plus. He was a, what, a two and a half win player that year? Two win player in like 60 years. Yeah, that's great. Two wins and 60 games is awesome. So you're able to get that. Awesome.

But my general expectations are, you know, you're probably just going to get a more traditional catching situation. And that's fine. That's totally fine. You're listening to the Lockdown Marys podcast. Thank you again for making us your first listen here on Thanksgiving. I love Thanksgiving. And as a reminder, once again,

Lockdown has launched the first ever national sports 24-7 streaming channel on YouTube. Lockdown Sports Today is here for you 24-7 covering the top sports stories of the day with the local experts of lockdown. national shows covering every league. Go to Locked On Sports Today on YouTube and subscribe to the first ever national sports 24-7 streaming channel part of the Lockdown podcast network, your team

every day. So there was a tweet yesterday, Pullway. I won't call a report. I am not going to dignify it as a report because I have a feeling that it's not, but we're going to mention it. John Morosi,

he's talked about the Mariners a lot. Obviously he goes on the radio and in Seattle. He goes on 7-10. I do think that he does talk to people within the Merrers organization. I do think that he has some information and some insight on the Marrars. But he mentions a lot of players when it comes to the Marys. He's mentioned

just this year. He's mentioned J.D. Martinez and Yoshinobu Yamamoto and now Jamir Candelario. He says that Jamir Candelario could be an option for the Maris at third base following the

Gino Swarist trade. Now, that can be based off of multiple things. It could be that he's actually hearing like, yeah, the mayors are having conversations with Candelario in his camp and they're thinking about it. Or it can mean Morosi saw the Gino trade and then,

you know, I was thinking of who are some third basemen who are available. Oh, Jamir Candelario, that could be an option and just tweeted it. So we don't really know what this is based off of. This could be nothing. Very intentional wording. And there's obviously the Daniel Kramer report yesterday that he was told by someone within the organization that the Gino trade clears the path for Luis Urias to be the everyday starting third basement in Seattle in 2024.

So maybe that's actually what the plan is there. We don't know. We've talked obviously quite a bit about a potential platoon there with Josh Rojas and Eureas. But if they are looking to aim bigger here, if they are looking at Jemir Kameh. Candelario, what do you think about that possibility? Yeah, it's pretty interesting. It's also worth noting that Candelario, uh, the, the desire for Eureas, if this is their true desire to be the starting third

baseman and signing Jemir Candelario, those can both coexist at the same time. Uh, Candelario, his defensive metrics a little bit all over the place, uh, at third base. Last year with Washington, he was really good. Then he went to the Cubs and he was really bad. which is so weird. It's so weird. Like in 2022, he was really bad at third. In 2020 or 2021, he was really good.

So it's kind of tough to say. But, you know, if you believe in Perry Hill, as much as some of you claim to you do, then it shouldn't be a problem, right? But yeah, he can also play first base. He does have a lot of experience there. And you still do have at-bats to give in the DH spot. So, yeah, just put that out there. there like both can be true the mariners can view urea as as they're starting third baseman and still

be interested in candelario um as for the fit candelario is certainly interesting one uh if sir it sure does look like 2022 was the outlier season something somebody predicted last winter not to name names or anything but uh sure got yourself on the back but uh don't tell your ucel doing it Sure. But yeah. So I think Candelario is a pretty good fit. The power that he has seems to play pretty well at T-Mobile. If you look at ballpark factors and stuff like that. But it's not 30 home run power. You're hoping for 20 bombs, maybe 25 if everything goes well. But he's going to hit a lot of doubles. He's a line drive hitter.

He peppers the gaps. He's going to slug probably in the 440 to 470 range somewhere in that. It's going to be a lot of doubles. And, you know, 15 to 20. ish home runs, maybe 25. He's going to hit for a pretty good average, probably in the 250 to 270 range. Draws enough walks, doesn't strike out a ton. Like, he's just a solid hitter. He is a 15 to 20 percent above league average hitter, which is something the merits could use.

He's not a star. You're not signing an all-star here. He's a switch hitter, which obviously helps with, you know, line-up balance and stuff like that. So it's a really interesting fit. I think it makes sense. And I think there's a possibility. Candelario is a guy who's, you know, three years,

45 million bucks, like in that range, or it could be something like 5 and 90, if the market is what it is. Obviously, you know, you're not interested in, in Candelario if he gets to approaching $100 million, but if you can get them for 50 million bucks, give or take, I think he makes a lot of sense. I think he's a good, he's a better hitter than Gurriel Jr.,

who's kind of another name. that's been floated out there. Gurriel Jr. just fits a little bit better because he's an outfielder. But yeah, I think that you're roughly looking at, you know, the same style of hitter.

Not a, not a guy who's going to hit 35 home runs playing it in, in Seattle, but a guy who's probably going to hit around 18 to 25, somewhere in that range, but put up good batting average, not strike out. Right.

And just kind of lengthen the lineup a little bit. Well, and if, you know, say you do sign him and he is your third baseman, and then you're platooning Urias and Rojas over at second. You know, Ureas obviously has 20 plus home run potential there. So you're making up for some of the lack of power from Candelario's side of things at third base over at second base with a position that doesn't really produce a ton of power output.

So that's kind of the general idea there. Candelario is a switch hitter. Averages this past year pretty much the same from both sides of the plate, a little bit more over the wall power output. from the left side of the plate. But like he said, you know, it's a more, yeah,

yeah, which is a really good fit for Seattle. Uh, he's walking, you know, 9.2% of the time this past year, career 9.6% walk rate, uh,

career, uh, strikeout rate of 23 and a half percent. That's totally fine. Take that. Take that all day long. Um, yeah.

And like you said, you know, he seems to be good for about 40 doubles. He's done it essentially twice now in his career, 42 and 2021, 39 last year. Also added three triples, 22 home runs this past year. That's a lot of extra base hits.

So he's not just a contact oriented hitter who just hits for a lot of singles. He is hitting for power. So yeah, I really like that idea. I really like the Candelario idea. I think he's a good fit for the ballpark. I think he's a good fit for this roster build, where this roster is right now. I think it makes a lot of sense.

And for that reason, I'm hoping that this Morosi tweet is a bit more tangible. there's actually like some smoke here that it's not just like hey he's available the mayor's you know on the outside looking in you know third baseman so that makes sense yeah um you know the nice thing about candelario is that he is a he is an everyday hitter you don't have to platoon him you don't have to you know put another player on the roster uh to you know kind of protect yourself there and you kind of already did with eeriez and rojas uh so there's

very little risk of, you know, non-performance. You look back at 2021. He was actually a 124 WRC plus against lefties or sorry against righties, which is, you know, obviously the side you care more about. You look at what he did in 2022. This is the one that kind of skewed his career numbers because he's a career 99 WRC plus against right-handed pitching, but he was 124 in 2021. Last year it was 75.

So that's a pretty drastic. bumped down, but then you look at what he did this year against right-handed pitching, he posted 118 WRC Plus. So 123, 75, 118, which one seems like the outlier. He's the guy that you can put in your lineup every day. He's, you probably want him hitting fifth or sixth in a really good lineup. But, you know, again, switch hitter perfectly fine from both sides of the plate. Some power output, you know, mostly doubles.

that type of stuff. And about league average strikeout rates and walk rates, he's a solid player. He's a solid player. Yeah, good player. He certainly helps you. And I would say he's a pretty safe bet to give you at least three wins.

Assuming the defense is somewhere in the middle of what he's been. And I mean, in 2021, he was almost a 4-1 player, 3.8 out of 4. So there's definitely, there's definitely upside there for him to be, you know, knocking on the door of, of all-star production. Sure.

2022, just based on everything, looks like the outlier here. So I'm not too concerned about that. And he's 30. So I mean, or he'll be 30 and tomorrow, I think is his birthday.

So, I think if you could get him for three years, somewhere in the 14 to 17 million a year range. I think I'm all on, I think I'm, I think I'm, you know, pretty darn interested at that point.

Yeah. Yeah. You're listening to the Lockdown Marys podcast. Thank you again for making us your first listen here on Thanksgiving. I love Thanksgiving. And as a reminder, once again, Locked on has launched the first ever national sports 24-7 streaming channel on YouTube. Locked on Sports Today is here for you 24-7 covering the top sports stories of the day

with the local experts of Locked-on plus our national shows covering every league. Go to Lockdown Sports Today on YouTube and subscribe to the first-ever national sports 24-7 streaming channel part of the locked on podcast network your team every day so lastly before we get out of here and let you guys go back to your thanksgiving activities if you got anything going on today the mariners have lost a fair amount of leadership in their clubhouse with the gino trade and like we talked about earlier it seems like the door is pretty much closed on tom murphy returning i know you you kind of left the possibility out there of maybe you know but uh yeah very very very small chance, but hey, you never know.

But it seems right now that the Mariners are going to lose at least two of their greatest leaders in their clubhouse. Guys that the clubhouse really, really respects. With Gino, I think back to the

series that they had in Anaheim where someone in the stands clearly said something that crossed the line to Julio, and Julio kind of lost it. Gino was able to reel him back in. I thought that was a really cool moment. Gino obviously had a major impact. I mean, if you're on Twitter,

if you're on Instagram, Gino obviously had a major impact on a lot of his teammates. A lot of them have come out and said some really, really nice things about Gino over the last 24 or so hours. So that's a major loss. And we've said it for the last couple of years. Tom Murphy is kind of one of those underrated leaders, like one of those underrated clubhouse guys that everyone loves.

And now it doesn't seem like he's come up. back either. So we talked about this a little bit yesterday towards the end that we we wanted to go over this some more that, you know, how do you fill that void? Like, is there, is it just players within the organization already within that, you know, on that 26 man roster already? Is it, is this now, you know, the time for someone like Pulio to step up and be more of a leader? Is it time for someone like Cal Raleigh, who already seems to be a leading voice in that clubhouse with, you know, like what he said about the front office at the end of the season. You go get Carlos Santana.

Right. Or do you need to replenish that from the outside, right? Is it not just guys needing to step up within the organization? Is it also that you need more of a veteran presence or a leadership presence within that clubhouse? So what do you think? Sure. It's also worth noting that, you know, Seattle has lost a relevant leader in their clubhouse, pretty much every year

for the last four or five years. They lost, you know, Kyle Seeger, then they lost Mitch Hanager, then they lost Carlos Santana, and now they're losing, you know,

Gino and, and Murphy, and we've seen guys step up. Every single time somebody's, you know, left, uh, we've seen other players step up.

And, and most notably, J.P. Crawford. Um, sometimes there's nothing wrong with getting new voices, uh, into your, into your clubhouse.

Uh, I'm not telling you that the players love it today. they certainly don't. But the players also understand the business of baseball. Like this stuff happens. You know, your friend gets traded. Your friend signs a free agent deal. Like there's going to be changes.

And while the players may not like it in the moment, eventually, they recognize that, look, this is the business I've chosen. And stuff like this happens. And in the meanwhile, you hope that that void doesn't go unfilled. It's a lot easier to, you know, digest a trade like this than it was, say, the Paul Seawall trade, who's also a leader right in that clubhouse and in that bullpen in particular and that kind of came out of nowhere and as far as we know nobody really emerged uh you know out of that bullpen to kind of take the reins of that group uh it's also by the way something that apparently robbie ray is like a big part of of and and obviously he wasn't around last year because he was because of his injury so um you know part of that is his guys coming back like ray uh but part of it is is guys stepping up and and i think if you're seattle i think you want to make something abundantly clear.

And it's, you know, what type of, of player we, we want to be like the, in the leadership team, right, part of the leadership structure. And it has to come from the players. This isn't something that Scott can fix. This isn't something that, you know, you could just hire each year-o or Nelson Cruz and like, oh, yeah, no, the clubhouse is awesome now.

Like, that's not how this works. The players have to dictate this. But to me, if I'm the Mariners, And I've seen all this leadership go. And I'm looking to kind of try and like reestablish some kind of culture in my clubhouse. I think you pick the guy and you say this is the guy. This is the guy. And you give him the captain ship, the first captain ship in Mariners history.

And that guy to me is clearly J.P. Crawford. I agree. I think it's time. I think it's time you put the sea on his jersey. You know, and typically, you know, these things are more symbols than anything. like nobody has to tell you that Derek Jeter's the captain, right? Everybody knows it. But you put the sea on the jersey and then whatever.

It's just an honor. Just an extra thing. But I think it's time to make it clear to your clubhouse, to your fan base that like, this is the guy. Like this is the guy that we are going to battle with. This is the guy whose personality is, you know, emblematic of what we want our clubhouse to be. And you reward him for that.

They rewarded him with a contract extension when they really didn't have to. too. And he rewarded them with a great season. Now it's time to go back and, and, you know, empower him officially with the organization's blessing, not just the clubhouse's blessing, uh, that this is the guy. So I think that's part of it. And, and, yeah, I do think I wouldn't be shocked if the mayor's made a couple moves, uh, where you go, oh, that, that's a clubhouse guy. Like, we know that that's a clubhouse guy. Uh, and, you know, it doesn't have to be Carlos Santana, but like somebody like Carlos Santana who walks in the room and immediately

everybody goes, okay, like this guy's the real deal. Maybe Justin Turner is that guy. I don't know a ton about Justin Turner. I don't know if he's actually that guy, but I'm just thinking of like, you know, veteran veteran player has been there, done that. Andrew McCutcheon, JD Martinez, maybe, you know,

just guys that are resume is just like. Yeah. Guys that have been there, they've done that. They've won World Series. They know what it takes to do that. And I do think that that stuff does get overblown to a certain degree. by the average fan, but it does matter. It does matter.

We know the impact of, you know, Carlos Santana and what that had on guys like Julio, right? Like, that's undeniable. That's an undeniable fact, what Santana's presence did for that clubhouse and what guys like Tom Murphy and Mitch Hanager and Kyle Seeger have done for that clubhouse. So, yeah, so I think it's probably something that they're going to have to do a little bit,

at least on the fringes this offseason at some point. I don't think it's Because again, like they do have guys They do have leaders there They have JP Cal's already coming into his own in that regard And you know there's probably some other guys in there as well That we don't even know about better actually

Because I mean like we didn't know about Tom Murphy Until maybe like a year and a half ago Two years ago that he was actually like a big voice in that clubhouse Didn't know about Robbie Ray until you know This fall By the way speaking of Robbie Ray I thought it was cool that you know He was in the clubhouse

He was in the dugout well after his injury. We saw him quite a few times down there. When guys, especially guys I get paid and all that who suffer these injuries, they just go off and they disappear for months and months on end. Robbie was there.

So that to me is really cool. I mean, Jesse Winker didn't even show up to the Mariners home playoff game. So, right. You know, a lot of times these guys just, they want to get out. Yeah, you know, I think for me, it's important that like every kind of position group has like

their guy, like their dog. And then you kind of have like the one like overarching like this is the this is the guy I'm going to follow. And to me that overarching guy and and, you know, who also is his position group, like that could be the same guy. So JP can be like the captain and also be the leader of the infielders, right? Like he can take that mantle. But Seattle, I don't think they have that guy in the bullpen yet.

Maybe it emerges. Maybe it's brash. Maybe it's Munoz or maybe they go get somebody. I think Cal is stepping up. and he'll take that Murphy mantle just fine. Obviously, Robbie is incredibly important to the starting pitching staff. And so I think they need a guy. And they still have Marco.

They still have Marco as well. For now. And he's certainly one of those guys. But I think they need a guy like that in the pen. And I think they need just, you know, obviously better players. But it would be. I wonder if sauce could be that guy. I feel like there has to be like some level of certainty with like, like,

like this guy has to be a high it has to be a high leverage dude not necessarily but it's got to be like like this is a dog like not somebody who's like this could be triple A depth like I don't think that that plays that well when it's like that guy could be in Tacoma in two weeks like I think it's like to be somebody

established somebody who uh you know sets the tone and and that's what CWald definitely did because I don't think Ceywald came up like when CWall came up for the first couple months I don't think he was that guy I think he was just trying to survive um I think he grew into that guy. And that's the thing, right? We sit here and say they need to go get somebody. Maybe they have that person. Maybe it is Matt Brash. Maybe it's Justin Topa. Like we don't know who it is. Um, but I think they need it. I think they need to some degree. They need a guy, uh, pretty much at every position group. And I think they're pretty much covered except for the bullpen. And then hopefully, you know, it's tough to be that guy when you're not playing. Like it's really easy for Robbie to like, hey, come on guys. You got this. But if he's not out there and he's not grinding with those players,

you're not quite as effective as you are when you're when you're going to battle with them so right because because work ethic and all that's that like being able to see it that obviously adds validity that adds integrity to to you so I'm not too worried about limitation in that in that thing though because like gilbert is certainly the type of guy who could step into that that role nobody works harder than logan gilbert louis yeah I mean just different uh type of leadership skills and and again you don't want 26 leaders right like You got to be very selective, but that's why I think putting the, the, the captain's crest on, on J.P.'s Crawford is like, he's the arbor. J.P. is Crawford? I mean, J.P. Crawford is that guy. Like, put the C on his chest. Let him be that guy. Let him be the voice. And then your leadership structure kind of flows down from there. Like, you don't need everybody to talk to the media and be like, that's all me. That's all me. And it's just like, no, you just need that one or two guys and need the clubhouse guys. like it's a very it's a very uh it's simultaneously an underrated part of team building and also horribly overrated by fans right right right right like the mariners like aren't going to lose

eight they're not going to you know lose 90 games now because the players are so mad that gino got traded like that's not going to happen right i i think like the vibes i mean i don't know what they were like after the seawalt trade obviously not good but i don't know if they were necessarily worse than like the Graveman trade because that seems bad and the mayor has played better baseball after both of those trades happened yeah yeah so they're not always connected like people try to make it

yeah um you know and I think in ways sometimes that actually gets players to rally together more um it depends yeah it also depends on the it depends on the makeup of the clubhouse and all that but I think the the mayors have a very strong foundation um there already with guys like J.P. and Cal.

So, yeah, I don't think that it's something that necessarily has to be a priority. But I think it is something that the mayors are going to address to some degree at some point. This office is probably going to be, you know, more so towards the end when they're doing like their, their final tweaks to the major league roster, you know, after they've done most of their heavy lifting.

And maybe, again, you know, maybe it's someone like Carlos Santana who I think is probably going to, lasts a while on the market. Yeah, I really do think this is the last thing. We got to go just specifically about Santana. I think the Mariners were, they were open to bringing Santana back last year. I really do. I think that they were totally fine with him being the DH and playing some first base.

But Pittsburgh came in like November and gave him $6 million. And at that point, he signed early. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just like, I think they were willing to do that at. like two, three million bucks. I think that's what they're, and I think that's probably what he's worth right now.

So, yeah, if they do that, fine, but it doesn't have to be Santana. It just, I feel like that's a guy who's worked in the clubhouse before. He makes a little bit of sense, like in the structure of your roster.

And, um, I, you know, he's just the first guy that comes to my mind when I think of like, just really good leadership clubhouse. Well, it's because we know.

It's, it's because we know. Yeah. You know, and like, it's, again, he was fine last year.

Like he was just a turner in theory. could be that guy, but I don't know. I haven't intently watched a team that Justin Turner has been on. So I don't. Like the players that I know are like the clubhouse vibes slash like actual leader types are McCutcheon and Santana.

Those are the only ones I know. There are probably a lot more out there. But those are the two that I know that are available right now. Yeah. Yeah. From just from our like personal perspectives, like we just like I'm not aware of like clubhouse guys personally.

At least a lot of them. Unless they've been in Seattle. Or like their reputation goes well beyond, you know, where they play. Like Andrew McCutcheon, right? Like, or Joey Votto, right? Joey Votto is another guy. I'm not particularly interested in Votto because he's just,

he's definitely a well-on-the-decline. Love Joey Votto. Should be a first ballot hall of famer. Yeah. I think he wants to play in Toronto too. I think he's going to try and make that work as, as much as he can. Yeah. I'd rather have Santano though,

just because he's actually a better bet to produce than Votto right now. Anyways, we went way too long. Ty, get us out of here. Right. You have a, you have a question of the day,

right? Are you going on today? No, we're saving that for tomorrow. We're saving that for tomorrow. All right. If you're celebrating Thanksgiving, what are your Thanksgiving plans?

Let us know in the comments or the live chat here on the premiere. Let us say. Lame. Whatever. Lame question. All right. That's going to do it for our show. Thank you so much for joining us here on the Lockdown Marrars podcast. For Colby Patnaud, I'm Tadings. Be sure to give us a follow on Twitter at L0 underscore Marrers. You can follow me at Dan Gonzalez. It's D-A-N-Z-L-Z and Colby at C-Pat 11. That's C-P-A-T-1-1.

You can also find all that stuff in the description of this episode. And thank you again for making us your first listen. Have yourself a beautiful baseball day. And we'll see you next time. Peace.