Locked On Mariners - Daily Podcast On the Seattle Mariners - Doctor, Doctor Give Me the News

Episode Date: June 11, 2021

Jonathan Miller guest hosts today's episode, and he's joined by Locked On Anaheim Ducks host Jason Hernandez. The two of them discuss one of the contemporary hot button issues in baseball: pitchers' [alleged] use of foreign substances. The two of them talk about how this might impact accused pitchers' legacies, and Jon talks about how and when umpires are allowed to check pitchers for anything that could doctor baseballs. The two of them then discuss some of the more bizarre plays that have taken place in recent weeks, and Jon dives into the rule book to explain the legalities of these plays. He then relays a couple of the more bizarre plays he saw -- and had to call -- as an umpire. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today on Locked-on Mariners, D.C. is shirking his responsibilities on this program in order to do something completely frivolous. Welcome to Locked-on Mariners, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Here's your guest host filling in for D.C. Lundberg, John Miller. Thank you, Joey Martin. In all actuality, folks, D.C. has a lot of school work due over the weekend, and so he needs all the time he can to study. and so I, Locked-on Mariners contributor, John Miller, am filling in for him. Locked-on Mariners is part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, brought to you by The Locked-on Room.

Please download, rate, and follow this program on whichever podcasting app you personally care to use. Ask your smart device to play Locked-on Mariner's podcast or any of the other great shows on the Locked-on Podcast Network. I will add, if your smart device is really that smart, then it'll be like mine and it will just automatically play a show without prompting. True story, folks, it has done this. And to join me on today's program, the gentleman laughing in the background, is none other than Jason Hernandez. Hello, how's it going?

It is going well. I hope you're doing well. I'm Southern Cal. You know, John, you brought up something interesting in that if you ask yourself, smart device to play a podcast, then something should happen, yes? Yes. Yeah, if you try locked on ducks on there, all you'll get is either Oregon football or something about duck hunt. Doesn't always work out properly. But, hey, what do I know, right?

So, yeah, I do host the Locked-on Anaheim Ducks podcast, which is a hockey podcast, but I know my baseball. I've done Locked-on Angels for a brief time. I know my baseball. I've been to, I would say all 30 Curran's ballparks, but there's one that I haven't been to yet because, well, reasons, the one in Texas. Not yet, but soon. So there was a subject that you and I were talking about that I think is a pretty hot topic in baseball. John, I don't know how familiar you are with the whole scandal going on in baseball as far as,

the doctrine of baseballs. I'm sure you've heard a little bit about that, right? I have heard a little bit about that, yes. What do you know, or what have you heard about it so far? Well, I can only suspect that Gay Lord Perry has come out of retirement. Yeah. So the big story on that is that, you know, a lot of pitchers are accused of, you know, scuffing up the baseballs, putting a lot of, I guess, substances on it.

sticky substances and one pitcher in particular that's getting outed for this is Garrett Cole. Garrett Cole is definitely one of the premier pitchers that has had this accusation against him, so much so to the point where he's having players go after him, including Josh Donaldson. And he's had to address this as even up to today where Josh Donaldson accused Garrett Cole. but he said Garrett isn't the only pitcher with a dropping spin rate and one thing to look at is if you sticky up the ball or doctor it

then it does a lot more not to the velocity but to the spin rate and with that different speed rate or spin rate it can make a baseball just drop out of thin air but I kind of want to get your thoughts on this because we've seen this for about 100 years, where baseballs get doctored every which way, right?

Yes, we've seen it back with the Yankee dynasty of the 50s and 60s, where Whitey Ford would throw a ball in the dirt or whatever, and his catcher will just rub it in there a little bit, or the catcher will get the ball from the umpire and just happen to drop it, and it goes into the dirt a little bit. So why do you think more pitchers, I shouldn't say haven't been caught, but why do you think baseball has kind of turned a blind eye to this?

It's a tough question, isn't it? That is a really tough question. And we could also ask then, why did baseball not do more about the use of steroids? Yeah. Because it was known that they were, being used for decades, and then it finally came out after certain players broke home run records. I kind of got this quote from Josh Donaldson, and it's a really interesting one, so I'll get your

thoughts on this before we head to break. So here's what Josh Donaldson said on Wednesday, quote, when I say something, it's been thought through before. It's not just something on a whim. I would say this. with Garrett Cole, he was the first guy to pitch since the minor league suspensions had happened, and he was the first guy you could see spin rates going down. Since Garrett did that, we're going off an interview that was done four or five days ago.

There have been 12 or more guys already whose spin rates have magically dropped in the last week. So it's not just Garrett Cole. I want to get that out. With that being said, we'll see how it plays out, end quote. Do you think he's on to something, and do you think baseball's actually going to do something about this? If it truly is that many guys, I think they're going to have to do something. I've certainly seen the footage of pitchers having substance on the rim of his cap in the last week or so. And then I wonder, what is Cole doing if he truly is to get away with it for this long?

Yeah, another pitcher that's being accused of this is L.A. Dodgers pitcher Trevor Bauer. He's been accused pretty much since the start of the season of Dr. Miesballs. But this isn't the first we've heard about this. You mentioned Gaylord Perry. He's infamous for doing this, right? Oh, yes. So why didn't he ever get, you know, in trouble for this? That's one of those.

It's a very good question because every now and that, then it would be reported that Gaylord Perry or someone like it, Gaylord Perry was a very great pitcher in his own right. That is true. I mean, he is a Hall of Fame pitcher. Yes. But every now and then it gets brought out that he's doctoring the ball or he's suspended for a game or whatever the penalty was.

Obviously not too much. He won 300 games. Right. So there's a question that I want to ask in regards to that. but I think we need to head to a break pretty soon. So, John, I'll throw it over to you because I think you have a trivia corner. Yes? Yeah, we do indeed have a trivia corner today.

Our trivia corner is actually a hall pass. This player played a 17-year career as a corner infielder in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. He has a 296 383-436 sledge line. He hit 426 doubles. 162 home runs. So he's not a big home run hitter. All right. 1,071 RBIs.

He won one batting title. He led the league in run scored twice and doubles once, base on balls once, intentional walks once. He was a five-time mall star, two-time silver slugger, 11-time Gold Glove Award winner. He won one MVP award,

received MVP votes in seven other seasons, finished, including a second place and a fourth place finish. Do you think those are Hall of Fame credentials? I'll tell you who this is after a word from sports trade. DC has been talking a lot about sports trade lately. If you haven't heard about it, it's where fantasy sports meets the stock market. It's no wonder this company is blowing up. Their platform allows you to buy and sell shares in your favorite players,

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that he's a five-time all-star, but only 162 home runs. It makes me think it's a slap hitter, but he's mostly known for his defense. And 70s, 80s, and 90s, I'm not sure if I know who this is. I'm inclined to say Ozzy Smith with those kind of numbers. And if it's Ozzy Smith, then I would say Hall of Famer. Otherwise, I would probably say, no, maybe not a Hall of Famer. I would concur with you on that.

And my first thought was Ozzie Smith, but then as I remembered, D.C. has this written as a corner infielder. Ah, do you know who this is? I do know who this is, and no, I didn't look it up, I guessed an SDC. Well, go ahead and tell us, who is this? It is none other than Keith Hernandez. Oh, the famous actor, Keith Hernandez. Yes.

Oh, man. Well, I guess I'll throw it out here. So coming up, is D.C. really doing school work today, or is he actually chasing 19-year-old waitresses with daddy issues again. We tackle tough questions here on Locked-on Mariners. John and I will be right back. Welcome back to Locked-on Mariners. Here once again is your guest host, John Miller.

Thank you again, John Miller. I'm here again with Jason Hernandez. Yo, how's it going? It is going well. Welcome. All right. So, you know, with DC out of the way, we're plotting to take over his job. I'm kidding.

Maybe you are. I mean, I have my own show, but maybe you're plotting, John? Hmm. Am I plotting? Hmm. All right. We'll find out more. Yeah, we'll find out in a bit.

So I did want to ask this question because this is a topic that is pretty hot in baseball right now. So I'll ask you, you know, other players have been accused, including, you know, Garrett Cole, I mentioned. Max Scherzer is another one of those names that's being bandied about as, uh, Doctor baseballs. So I'll just ask simply, do you think these kinds of accusations and allegations will tarnish their legacy? And secondary part of that question, do you think it might later hurt their Hall of Fame chances? Hmm. I don't think it will tarnish their legacy the way that the

PEDs or HGH or something like that have with. certain players that could very well go their whole 10 years and not make it into the Hall of Fame. And because we, as we mentioned earlier, a guy like Gaylord Perry, who was known for doing that, is in the Hall of Fame. Right. But then you think about, I mean, you brought up a good point is that PEDs and doctoring baseballs are two entirely different beasts. and something that honestly you don't mess with.

And something else that I want to get your perspective on since you have umpired is that Major League Baseball has begun to ask umpires to enforce rules that are already on the books regarding foreign substances until a new protocol is going to be finalized. So you know how they like repeat and random check for stuff? And I know we've seen this with pitchers in the past. I think it was like Domingo Hermann, I think was one of them, where the umpire went up, found something on the glove,

and then he got thrown out. So from an umpiring perspective, how often can they check for something like this? In theory, they can check as often as they would like. Every pitcher that comes out to the rubber, they could check him, and it could be based on, he made a movement to his back pocket.

Okay, maybe he was stashing something back there or he rubbed his cap a little bit. And then if he didn't then rub it off or if he went down to the dirt and we didn't see him get rid of that dirt or rub it off or something, then yeah, we could check every pitcher. So how cognizant of the fact are you that something might be happening where a baseball is getting doctored? or there's some kind of foreign substance either on a cap or in the pants or in the glove or something like that. As much as they may try to hide it, most pictures are not as, say, slick as a pickpocket. Oh. And are going to have some sort of a tell that they're doing something they shouldn't be doing trying to get that unfair advantage. But, I mean, since you've umpire, like, how can you tell something?

like that. It's generally something that's an out of the ordinary movement or gesture and since a pitcher is not going to do this for every ball, for every batter, the pitcher has to be very careful about that so that he doesn't get caught or try to make it like, well, yes, I always go rub my back pocket because I have a picture of my wife and for luck or whatever. They would have to come up with something like that so that it's not as obvious. I mean, I don't know, but have you ever done that? Or have you ever actually caught a pitcher doing something like that in your experience?

The closest I've come to is I've had to ask them to make sure they wipe their hand off of the dirt. I've never seen a foreign substance or seen them go into their cap or their pocket. or whatever or even getting something from another player. So explain that further. Like you're forcing them to rub it on the dirt or on the rosin bag instead of anywhere else. I mean, but isn't that also kind of a form of doctrine? I guess it wouldn't be in that case since you're just using dirt and a rosin bag, right? If they're just using that to dry their hand, that's fine.

But if I pick up a little bit of dirt and I'm rubbing it between my fingers or what have you, and then if I just let my hand go and now my hand is dry and the dirt is now on the ground. But if I leave a little bit of that there and then go to my glove where the ball is and rub a little bit of that into the ball. And it does say in the rules that you have to rub it or I guess use certain materials around you. So it's only limited to dirt and the rosin bag and that's it. Yes. All right. I mean, it's a good conversation to have because you do have that umpiring experience.

You know, it's probably good that you haven't had to throw anyone out because of that, at least. So. Yeah, it's very good. But, I mean, if you do catch someone, they're basically ejected immediately, right? Pretty much, yes. All right. It's a good conversation to have. And something that I'm sure we're going to hear more about in the coming days because,

unfortunately, this is kind of, you know, the new scale. scandal in baseball with this happening. Have you got a question or comment for DC? If so, write him at Locked-on Mariners at gmail.com. Questions and comments on any subject are welcome and highly encouraged. It doesn't even have to be about the Mariners. Doesn't have to be about baseball. It doesn't have to be about sports at all.

I mean, what else do you think we could ask DC about besides sports? Waitresses. No, no, no. Oh, boy. Sorry, D.C. As we continue to plot the takeover of the show, the entire network. But before we do that, let's get this word from fully loaded. Fully loaded shoe is tobacco-free, long-cut, and pouches that give you the same pack, dip, spit, and buzz you're used to without tobacco.

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We are filling in for DC. who claims to be doing schoolwork all day, but we'll see about that. We're going with that, right? We're going with that. All right. So, John, you're an umpire. You've been an umpire for a long time.

There have been some funny plays recently in baseball. I'll let you introduce the first clip. there was a funny moment that happened in Pittsburgh against Chicago about two or three weeks ago. And I'll let you set this one up since you like this one a lot. Yeah. So, Javi Baez, it's a ground ball to, I believe it was the third baseman who throws it to first, the throw is off. The first baseman, instead of tagging the base or throwing it to someone to tag the base, decides to chase after Baez.

Baez retreats all the way just short of home plate, allowing the run to score, and then through a series of little league throws, he ends up at second base himself. It's hilarious. It really is. I'll ask you this. So all he had to do, all he had to do was just go back, like walk back to first and tag up. And that would have been it, right?

That's all he had to do. Or throw to someone covering first, and that would have been fine. It was a ground ball to the third baseman with a runner on third. All they had to do was touch first base. So I'll ask you this because, you know, there's been like some weird stuff. So it's not under the description.

of the umpire like if a runner stops running towards first would the umpire ever have the discretion to just automatically say not you know what you're out or does he have to like physically tag by a filter like that no no as long as he does not retreat all the way back to home or does not interfere with anybody he's technically fine seriously yes oh my gosh. Okay. So the runner is then proceeding to home and then is called safe. But the play isn't over yet because Javi still has to go to first, right? Yes. So the catcher throws it to the second baseman covering at home. That throw is off and that play messes up completely. So this is something that like I've heard her like a lot of people like ask. If the catcher throws,

it and the second basement covering first. If he has a force out, the run would then get negated, question mark, or what would happen there? Is that what happens? That is what would happen, yes. Okay, so I think you explained this to me before, but like, so what exactly is the rule on that? Like, in the simplest form? So we have runner on third, ground ball to the third basement. Right.

There is a force at first base. Right. The force is not negated until the batter runner either touches first base or is retired. Okay. Since there's two outs, no matter what happens, as long as you get the force out, no runs can count. That is correct. Wow. So, I mean, after all that, the run still wouldn't have counted either way.

Yes. You could have had a big argument on your hands, but there's nothing they could have done about it. So despite the fact that the runner at home was called safe by the home played umpire, they still wouldn't have counted that. He was called safe in a tag play. It would be the same way if, say, Bayez had hit a fly ball to right field, and the run comes in and scores. And then the right fielder makes a great throw and retires by as at first base.

The run scored before the out, but that's still a force out. Oh, I like that interpretation. I hadn't thought of it that way. Oh, good catch there. I hadn't thought of that. So, oh, but guess what, John? We're not done with the pirates. We're not?

No, we're not because just Wednesday, no, Tuesday, There was an even worse play that happened with the Pittsburgh Pirates. It's like they're allergic to first base. Or how would you put it? How did you say it? They are playing like little leaguers. There was a little league play that happened. So to set this up on Tuesday,

Cabrion Hayes hit a home run off of Walker Bueller, right? This was bottom of the first. Pirates are up one-nothing, right? Wrong. You were adamant about this. They could absolutely challenge anything possible with this home run, right? Yes. They could challenge if it was fair or foul.

They could challenge if one over the wall. They could even challenge if the runner touched first base, which apparently Cabrion Hayes did not do. So it was kind of like a weird, like tweener, like right in the corner. Cabrion Hayes ran it out thinking that it was going to be a long double or maybe a triple. And in the midst of running this out, he forgot to touch first base. He never touched first. So what's going on there, John?

That's just sloppy bass running. And you've seen the clip as well as I have. It wasn't a close call. He very obviously missed first by inches. And even if it's a home run, they can call them out. They can appeal that and they can call them out, yes. Please tell me you've seen that happen at least once in your umpiring. I have seen that happen.

I have called that. You've called that. How upset was the batter? The batter was very upset. They hit a home run out over the fence. They go all the way around the bases, and they miss stepping on home. Wait, they miss up on home. They miss stepping on home.

The catcher comes up, looks at me, steps on home plate, I knew exactly what he was doing. Said, you're out. That's even worse. Yes. Wait, what was the better thinking? Like, was he flexing? Was what? What? He was just racing home. It is not like his teammates were around or something like that.

Just going in and happened to miss home. No one was on. It was a solo home run. Oh, man. I think that's worse. Like, I understand if you miss first base to run it out, but to miss home, how do you do that? I don't know how. Another one I have seen, if we have time. Yeah, go for it. Got this big buff hitter up there.

This is high school, so this guy's about 6.3, 240 pounds or something. Mm-hmm. For a 16-year-old or something, he's a big guy. Right. He steps up there, launches this ball. Fences, I think, were like, 300 feet or something. It would have been a major league home run. Wow.

Crushed it. The one problem, he stepped on home plate when he did it. Wait, wait, hold on. He stepped on home plate while doing the home run. Yes. In the process of swinging and stepping, he stepped on home plate. I'm pretty sure that's not allowed. That is not allowed.

So while everyone's celebrating and he's going around the bases, I'm going out, out, out, just every few seconds and making it known. And, like, he stepped on the plate. Oh, my God. And he comes in and then touches home plate again. And I have to calm everyone down and let them out, not. Despite how far the ball went, he is indeed out. Oh, my gosh. I mean, it's good you had the presence of mine to call him out right away.

Like, you called it right away. Yeah, he steps on the plate as he's swinging, and I'm not sure if it's as the ball's been going or whatever. I'm out. But everyone's seeing this big swing and the ball travel 350 feet or so. They're not paying attention to me at all. My partner's out there on the bases. Every now and that for a big. call, you might be mimicking to let people know, okay, calm down here.

We need to turn things back. Wow. And they didn't catch it until afterwards. Oh, my gosh. That's the best way to end a show ever. I can't believe you've done that. I applaud you, sir. Thank you, sir. That is awesome. I think that's the perfect way to close off the show, yes? I would agree with that.

All right. Where can people find you on social media? Tell us about your show, Jason. My show is called Locked on Anaheim Ducks, where I talk about the Anaheim Ducks, the San Diego Goals. They're a minor league affiliate. And about anything hockey and maybe some food takes in there once in a while, just a lot of random stuff because it's offseason now. But it's a hockey podcast, which you can find on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Stitcher Radio, Spotify, the new Odyssey app. and wherever podcasts can be found.

I'm on Twitter at Stimpy J.D. And the show's Twitter is at L.O. underscore Ducks. Thank you very much. You're welcome. D.C. will be back on Monday to recap the series with Cleveland. Please remember to download, rate, and follow Lockdown Mariners. Look for us on any podcasting app you can think of. Leave a rating and review if your podcasting app so allows.

Thank you, Jason. so much for being here. You're welcome. Glad to talk to you again. Very nice talking with you. I am John Miller. Thank you for listening and have a great weekend. Get all the sports news you need in under 20 minutes with the Locked On Today podcast. Host Peter Bukowski will keep you updated on the latest news in every major sport with Locked On's team of local experts. Follow the Locked On Today podcast on the Odyssey app or wherever else you get your podcasts. This is Joey Martin for Lockdown Mariners, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network.