Locked On Mariners - Daily Podcast On the Seattle Mariners - Draft Notice (Part 1)
Episode Date: June 12, 2020D.C. Lundberg starts to examine the first round of the Major League Baseball Amateur Draft with the help of Jason "J.D." Hernandez. D.C. offers his... um... unique analysis while J.D. picks up the sla...ck. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
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Thank you for tuning in to Locked-on Mariners.
Here's your host, D.C. Lundberg.
Thank you very much, J.M.
Locked-on Mariners has returned after a day off,
and we're actually going to talk about baseball today.
Isn't that odd?
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at D-C-U-N-D-B-E-R-G, for those scoring at home.
And ladies and gentlemen, I want to say a few things before we get into today's show.
I'm not oblivious to what's going on across the country.
I'm choosing not to cover it, though, for several reasons.
This is a baseball show, not a newscast.
Every news outlet that there is is covering this.
It is everywhere.
and I hope that this program can serve as an escape and a refuge from everything
and that you can forget about life's problems for 15, 20, 25 minutes at a time.
Again, this is a baseball show and baseball is supposed to be fun.
And I'm a baseball guy.
I'm not a newscaster or a political analyst.
I try to keep this show fun, goofy, somewhat irreverent, but also informative and interesting.
And that is what I'm going to continue to do my best to do.
Anyways, we are going to talk about the Major League Baseball amateur draft today,
or at least some of the first round picks, including the Mariners first round selection.
And since I know about as much as college and high school prospects as I do molecular neurobiology,
here with me to help talk about some of those draft picks is the host of Locked on Anaheim Ducks
and the temporary host of Locked on Angels. Jason Hernandez.
Jason, how are you doing today?
So I tried asking Siri to play Locked on Mariners,
and I got the Rise of the Modern Mariner book for some reason.
What?
I'm only kidding.
Okay.
But everything's going pretty well except for this insane heat.
It's 100 degrees down here right now.
It is blazing hot.
It's blazing hot just like some players' fastballs.
Oh.
Hmm.
We made the temperatures touch in 100.
So are some of these pitcher's arms.
Interesting.
Nice segue, sir.
Thank you.
We are going to begin by talking about the sixth overall selection in this year's draft,
which just happens to be the Mariners' pitch.
Hey, imagine that.
The Mariners selected a pitcher out of the University of Georgia, the state, not the former
Soviet bloc country, right-hander Emerson Hancock.
J.D., we were watching this portion of the draft yesterday while on the phone with each other,
and you were able to help me compile the following scouting report that I posted to Twitter.
95-mile-an-hour fastball tops out at 98.
Fastball, slider, curve, and change.
Mixes pitch as well, good off-speed stuff, very good control.
smooth delivery.
What do you have to add to that, J.D?
Well, first off, I love the fact that he has multiple pitches
and can really change speeds when needed.
As far as his pinpoint location goes,
I thought he was the best pitcher in the MLB draft this year.
When you talk about velocity getting up to 98,
what I like is he's got a little bit of torque.
He's got one of the easier strides
as far as draft prospects goes.
As far as Emerson Hancock,
he's a pretty big body.
He is 6.4, 213 pounds.
So a pretty big body.
He gets a lot of movement from his back leg,
and that really drives his push towards the mound and towards the pitch.
Another thing I like, his curveball,
he's got one of the better curveballs in this year's draft.
I think there's another pitcher that has a better curveball,
but that's just a little bit of bias there.
Hancock, he's got a bit of an attitude,
but he's also just got such great precision on his off-speed stuff.
The fact that he has four pitches on him says a lot,
and I do like pitchers that can change from one pitch to another effectively.
Most of his pitches are rated 55 or above, so they're above average pitches.
That's good.
Just based on the video that I saw yesterday, I loved his curveball,
and you talked about, we both talked about his delivery a little bit
and how he pushes off with his back legs so much.
One thing that I was not too much of a fan of in his delivery
is how his back foot crosses over his front foot
in his follow-through and his back was almost facing the hitter
after he had released the ball.
Not only does that not put you in good fielding position,
but that can be out now dangerous if your back is towards the hitter
as the batter is striking the ball.
However, in some of the other video that I saw, it wasn't as pronounced, leading me to believe that that is something that they had been trying to coach out of him, and maybe that had been successful thus far.
So that's a plus.
Another plus, Jason, is that on Thursday, as we're recording this on Thursday, as you're listening to this, it'll be yesterday, he was named an academic All-American.
I like Emerson Hancock a lot as far as his attitude in general.
He wants to get outs.
Yes, he does know that he will top out, but he's got good control.
It's a very smooth delivery as far as I'm concerned.
He's there to get strikeouts.
He's there to get outs.
And he will get strikeouts any way he can.
You know, slider, curve, change up.
Honestly, he's got a very good attitude.
I like this pick a lot for the Mariners.
And that says a lot about their farm system.
The way they're building up their farm system is from within.
they're utilizing those draft picks.
I do like that the Mariners are trying to build up from the inside,
and they're really going to focus on bringing him up, keeping him there,
and seeing how far he can go in the next couple years.
Some scouts are projecting that he could be MLB ready by possibly 2022.
That's soon.
Maybe as early as late 2021.
That's a lot soon.
But I would say a lot of scouts are saying 2022 would be that
target date for him to go up to the majors.
That's even asking a lot for a college pitcher, unless your name is Steven
Strasbourg, of course, and there are a few like that around.
Who knows? You spoke about the Mariners farm system, and then one more
point I want to get to before we go into halftime here, so to
speak. With the mixing of pitches and the good
control, this plays into the Mariners' philosophy, at least for
their rotation.
of controlling the strike zone,
which John Miller and I talked about a little bit on last Saturday's program, I want to say,
where we were talking a little bit about the Braves pitching stuff,
and I'm not comparing the two talent-wise,
because that Braves team is just so far above and beyond anything I've ever seen in my lifetime,
but the approach is very similar.
Control the strike zone, make pitches in the strike zone,
mix pitches, movement on the pitches, and the outs will come.
Very similar approach, I feel, to those 1990s
Braves teams, even if the talent level is not there, Jason.
I mean, I'll agree with you on that.
The Braves, they just have a completely different system
as far as I'm concerned.
As far as what more teams are starting to stray towards,
they're not going after the fireballers as much.
There are still going to be teams that want that live arm
that can touch 100, 101 miles an hour.
They still want that, despite the fact that there might be a little bit
of downgrade as far as control.
Yes, it's an upgrade on speed, but you're really setting yourself up for possible arm injuries.
Because as you've mentioned with other pitchers, you've seen other pitchers on this draft
where their arm slot might be a little bit too horizontal,
or there could be too much torque on an arm.
As far as who the Mariners got, Hancock has a fairly easy delivery,
and it's conducive to being pretty durable in the rotation.
Absolutely.
I mean, that's the first thing that jumped out at me when I saw the video of him yesterday.
This kid's got a pretty smooth delivery.
He probably is not going to have a lot of arm trouble.
He doesn't have a lot of torque on his elbow, even though he does throw two breaking pitches.
You know, that's the first thing that jumped out about me that this kid may be pretty
durable down the stretch.
He's already got four pitchers, for a college pitcher, for good pitches for a college pitcher,
which is unusual.
and he just seems kind of, I like the pick a lot.
Let's just put it that way.
And with that, we'll go into the Mariners trivia question.
And it is the following.
On this date in 1997, the Mariners played their first ever interleague game.
Who were the M's opponents that day?
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Answer to the trivia question,
the M's opponents
in their first ever interleague game
on...
Huh?
You know the answer to this.
I think I know this.
Let me set the stage
and then let you answer.
The M's first opponent
in their first ever interleague game
on June 12th, 1997,
were who, JD?
I think this came up
on a recent YouTube video.
I believe this was the Rockies.
You are correct, sir.
In that game,
Rockies,
Quentin McCracken hit into a 7-2-4-6-8 double play.
I don't know if this clip does on YouTube or not,
but if it is looking up, it is hilarious.
It was basically the result of two base running mistakes on McCracken's part.
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Welcome back to Locked-on Mariners.
Once again, your host, D.C. Lundberg.
Black cherry lemonade for the win.
Yes.
Oh, we're back.
Yes, thank you very much, J.M.
Locked-on Mariners continues at this time.
I am D.C. Lundberg, your sleep-deprived host,
joined by Jason, J.D. Hernandez.
Thanks again for joining us today, J.D.
You know, I can't believe that you didn't mention Jerry Depoto on your trivia
that you talked about on the previous segment.
I can't believe you forgot about Jury to Poto.
Oh my gosh, you're right.
Oh, I'm such an idiot.
Jerry DePoto.
Jerry DePoto pitched in the first Mariners' Inter League game,
ladies and gentlemen for the Rockies,
and it completely escaped my mind.
Oh, my goodness gracious.
Well, that's because I'm thinking about the drug.
See how I'm bringing it back around?
Ah, yeah.
That's a complete lie.
I'm just getting out of it somehow.
In any case, we are talking about the draft on today's show,
or at least parts of the first round of said draft.
We spoke about the Mariners' first pick,
Emerson Hancock, in the first half of the show.
Let's talk about some of the other picks,
beginning with the number one overall selection by the Tigers,
and that is Spencer Torkelson.
Let's see.
Take it away, Jady.
Well, Torkelson is the obvious number one.
pick. I mean, there was no question about it. Even growing up in California, he was a top
prospect in NorCal. Once he committed to Arizona State, he was just a stud up and down. Pretty big
body, 6-1-220 pounds. Monster, monster numbers, one of the best bats in the country, and someone
that I think could make his debut very, very quickly. As far as some of the numbers go for Spencer
Torkelson, he's got some pretty good numbers. He's about
Close to 400. I could see him hitting about
28, 20, 90 in the majors when he debuts.
He's got that good of a bat and that good of a swing to me.
Very, very good.
Torgo's from the obvious number one pick just by watching MLB Network
and watching the news ticker on the bottom line as they're playing.
There's old games. Even I knew this guy who was going to be drafted number one.
And like I said, I know about as much as the draft as I do,
I don't know, picking outlandish field of study that I've now.
ever heard of. It did not take long, JD, for the baseball world to be surprised by a draft
pick. It happened in the very second pick of the draft. And that was the Baltimore Orioles doing,
of course, and they chose Heston Kirstad. And my scatting report on Kestin Hirstad is that
his picture looks like an advertisement for crest toothpaste. What say you, J.D?
Oh, man, talk about shocker there. Talk about undersloting there.
Look, Kirstad was going to be your first round pick.
He was projected to be kind of in the middle first round.
Yeah.
But, man, going number two?
Yes.
Really?
It's the silent J that did it.
It's the silent J that did it.
And I'm happy to have more Scandinavians in the big leagues,
or at least in the minors at this time.
Okay.
As a man named Lundberg, yes.
I mean, look, Kirsten is a fine outfield.
I think he's a solid choice at number two.
I don't know if I'd put him as high as number two.
He was ranked number 10 overall.
he was ranked to possibly be the number 12 pick with Cincinnati,
but to move up to number two.
Maybe they saw something in him that we don't.
He's a pretty solid outfielder, good outfield arm.
Another solid bet, but still, this one kind of baffled me a little bit.
And I have to go, I have to trust your opinion on this,
because beyond Torkelson, who was the obvious number one pick,
like even a bloke like me, knew that he was going to go number one.
I don't know anything about the other picks.
he's ranked here as number 10.
The Orioles took him number two.
One thing I saw on TV about Kirstad is that
he was projected to have the best left-handed power
in the draft, and maybe that's why the Orioles took him.
That plays well in Camden Yards, doesn't it, J.D?
I guess.
Or he could just be another Chris Davis.
I mean, he's good for power.
Yes.
That's the best thing about him.
He's good for power.
He does have a tendency to free swing
at times,
but I could see him getting
30, 40 homeruns at Camden Yards.
If he makes enough contact that is,
and maybe 200 strikeouts.
Okay, that's a problem.
One more point about...
I feel bad comparing him to Chris Davis
because Chris Davis is a fine ballplayer,
but Kirstad is just power, pretty much.
Yeah, another thing about Kirstad before he move on,
he was drafted as an outfielder,
yet he also played third base and shortstop in college.
Yeah, I can see that, but he's an off-hielder.
He's a big body off-fielder.
The Marlins were number three,
and they also kind of baffled those at MLB Network
by taking pitcher Max Meyer.
J.D., the floor is yours.
I would say he's a very good pitch.
One of the better right-handed pitchers,
probably just behind Emerson Hancock
as far as my hand-of-pitchers ago.
I had Hancock won Meyer 2 as far as right-handers go.
No, the Mariners got the better of that deal.
Believe me, they did.
Look, he's got a pretty live arm.
He does touch very fast on the fastball, which I like.
He's got multiple pitches, what I like.
He's got two very solid pitches, three pretty decent pitches.
A fourth pitch, not so much.
He's mostly a three-pitch pitcher.
I do like Max Meyer in that number three pick.
I think he'll be good.
But I could see him being more of a reliever kind of player.
That's what I think he could end up.
being. That would be a problem for a top three pick. I mean, the baseball draft is so far removed
from an exact science like the NBA or the NFL draft is, where those early round picks
not only make it right to the big club, but they're starting. Baseball is a very, very different
system. Is it possible for him to develop a fourth pitch in the minor leagues?
He could. It'll take some time. Okay. But I think he could possibly develop a pitch.
The other pitcher that I like
was the pick after that.
A.A. Lacey. Go for it.
Yeah, I thought he was the best left-handed arm by far.
Yes.
He was ranked number three.
Another superior arm, probably one of the superior arms in the draft.
He's got a batting average against of only 162.
And in the aluminum bat league, that is huge.
I'll also note that he is a bigger body than Max Meyer is.
Max Meyer is somebody who's my height in 185 pounds.
I'm six feet tall.
So Max Meyer not that big.
And Lacey is 6.4215, which may speak to a little bit more durability.
Yeah, and he's got a downhill plane to him where his fastball looks like it's going to dip quite a lot.
When I look at his delivery, he's kind of got like a high arm slot.
It slightly reminds me of Chris Young, who's a tall lanky frame, goes downhill and has a downward motion
on his pitches. That's what I kind of see
a little bit.
The visual I get for that is Doug Fister.
The visual I get for that is Doug Fister.
A little bit, I could see that.
Okay. As far as his pitch stuff goes,
his fastball is about mid-90s, but his off-speed stuff
is amazing. His change-up does sink away a little bit.
So as long as he can get that pinpoint control
on his change-up, I think he'll be a solid pitcher.
You just described a left-handed Doug Fister.
Although Doug Fister's six-footer's six-foot.
eight, not six foot four, but
we'll go with that comparison. I don't
know. I think I like your comparison
a little bit better. We'll go Doug Fister.
Okay. It does sound better than I think about
it. Fair enough. Number
five, and by the way, Asa Lacey
went to the Kansas City Royals
as the number four pick. The number five pick went
to the Toronto Blue Jays, and that
is Austin Martin, and they
thought they were drafting a high end
of British automobile, but it turns out
they got a shortstop from Vanderbilt,
who looks like what may happen,
if Dante Bichette and Eddie Van Halen somehow had a baby.
What say you about Austin Martin, Jady?
I'm not going to disagree with that.
Okay.
He led the SEC in hitting, batting 392.
He had an on-base of 486.
His OPS was close to 900.
One of the best pure hitters of the draft.
He's got a very consistent swing about him,
and he will get contact very easily.
I could see him being one of the better contact hitters.
He doesn't have a lot of home run power, but he has a lot of doubles power,
which I think is fine for that team.
I think that's fine for that team, too, especially at shortstop.
Do you think he's going to stick at shortstop?
Because sometimes these players who are drafted as shortstop,
sometimes they wind up at second base or third base.
And again, I don't know anything about these players.
Is Martin a true shortstop?
It's funny you mentioned that.
Since I've been taking over for Lockdown Angels,
I've been doing a lot of draft stuff,
he did start off at third base
he's kind of moved around from the third
shortstop even played a little bit of
outfield and he could be
good in the outfield but I think
he could make a solid third
basement he has the arm for it
okay okay I don't see why he couldn't do that
he could play second base he's got
the good decision making for that as well
so he could be anywhere
in that left side at the infield I think
so if he's got the
decision making of a second basin with a third
baseman's arm if he's range you
he could make a great shortstop from what I hear.
Oh, absolutely. I think his defensive metrics could be very, very good in the major leagues.
That is critical for shortstop in my estimation, although it's becoming more of an offensive
position over the last few years. I still think it's a defensive first position.
Mariners had the sixth pick with Emerson Hancock, and I'll say one more thing about
Hancock before we move on, and that actually has to do with Jerry DePoto, that they were tracking
Hancock from day one, and they were very happy that he fell to them at the number six
position.
Many of the mock drafts had the guy who the pirates took at seven going to the Mariners at
six, and that is second baseman shortstop, Nick Gonzalez.
I know a little bit about Nick Gonzalez, just for my conversations with Taylor Blake Ward,
because I think that, I think he had Gonzalez going to the Mariners, too.
But I'll let you take the lead on this, too, J.D.
Well, Gonzalez is a very special kind of player.
He's a special second baseman who has a superior decision-making ability in second base and a very superior bat.
Yes.
One of the better bats in the draft in my estimation and a lot of people's estimations.
He was the MVP of the Cape Cod League.
He slashed 351, 451, 630.
He really sprayed the batting chart where he could hit it left.
He could hit it right.
honestly, with how he did in the Cape Cod League,
I had Nick Gonzalez as high as number five.
Another thing that Taylor and I spoke about is, you know, again,
going back to what we were talking about with Austin Martin,
what position is Gonzales going to wind up at,
which is very poor grammar, I just realized.
I apologize, ladies and gentlemen.
And it kind of seems to be the consensus
that he is more of a second baseman than a shortstop
because his arm might be a little short for short.
What say you, J.D.
Yeah, that's the difference between
Austin, Martin, and Nick Gonzalez is Martin has the arm,
and Gonzalez may very well end up at shorts off or second base.
That's what is likely to happen.
Correct.
We're going to move on to the number eight selection by the San Diego Padres.
First high school are taken, it looks like.
Independence High School in Tennessee, Robert Hassel III.
And my scouting report on Robert Hassel, the third is,
if baseball doesn't work out, then he's got a future as a bass singer
in a duop tribute band.
Have you heard this guy speak?
he's got the ultimate radio voice.
Oh my God.
I mean, he has the face of a 15-year-old and the voice of a polished 35-year-old DJ.
His voice does not match his face.
I can absolutely hear this guy singing.
Hip-dip-dip-dip-dip-d-da-da-da-ma-ma-ma-ma-ma-ma.
Get a job.
You know?
Get a job.
Yeah, exactly.
I could hear that, too.
I love some du-up, ladies and gentlemen.
I look like a metal head.
I do listen to old school metal.
I love me some du-up every once in a while.
Great stuff.
Absolutely.
Yeah, another solid bat, another great prep bat.
He averaged about 500, but again, it's high school.
Yep.
And another high school outfielder was taken with the ninth selection by the Colorado Rockies,
and that is Zach Veen, who looks like a combination of every male character on Saved by the Bell.
Your analysis, JD.
I will not disagree with that.
I kind of want to move on to the next pick.
Okay.
I know a little bit about this next pick.
Okay.
The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim, California,
either, you know, 13 Western states or whatever it is,
they took Louisville pitcher, re-eyed Dietmirs, I think it is, J.D.?
Reed Detmer's. Of course.
A very, very solid pick for the Angels.
And for the record, I know Taylor Blake Ward on his mock draft,
he had Cade Cavali as a number 10 pick.
Yeah.
I predicted, and I said they'd better take Reed Detmer's,
and I'm so happy they did.
Yeah.
Thank God.
If you hear Thursday's podcast for Lockdown Angels,
you could hear a little bit of audio from the man himself,
Readdentmers.
Yes.
Okay.
And my scouting report on Redetmers before we get to yours
is that this photo that they have on MLB.com
looks like a cover of field and stream.
What say you, J.D?
You know, I could kind of see that now.
So, Redetemers, I think, has the best curveball by far in the MLBJ.
draft. If you look at
some of the GIFs online where you see
his wicked curfassball,
oh my God, that thing has
so much filth in it, that pig pen
would be proud of it. That's how
filthy that curveball is.
Nice, Paul, sir. Thank you.
12 to 6th curveball,
it gets way up there and paints the corners.
The best thing about him,
he's a little bit slower
if you can believe that.
When you talk about control, Hancock
has control, but
Reed Detmer's has ultimate control.
His fastball only tops at about 95.
Only 95, yeah.
Only 95.
His fastball averages about 9091,
but his greatest asset is his changing of speeds.
72 to 76 mile per hour curveball.
His changeup has improved quite a bit.
His off speed, his slider is also very deceptive.
But the best thing is his control and command
by far. It's not even close. And if you
want to hear some audio from Reed Detmer's, once again, check out Locked on Angels,
where I kind of mentioned this a little bit, where
Reid Detmer's had a fantastic, fantastic quote,
where he says, I just want to throw strikes. That's it. And this is a direct
quote from Reed Detmer's to Al Leiter. Quote,
I'm not trying to light up Raider guns out there. All I'm trying to do is locate
all of my pitches, end quote. And he kind of goes on a little
about that on the media conference call,
the post draft conference calls.
Yeah, he knows that the media
is going to get on him by his speed.
And he says, no, forget that.
Command. It's all about command. It's about getting
outs. That's what he's all about.
Oh, the other great thing about Demers, and I know
you would like this personally. Yes.
It is his attitude of getting players
out. He does go deep into games.
He's got an even easier
stride than Emerson Hancock.
You thought Hancock had an easy strike,
which he does, by the way. Oh, yeah.
Reed Detmer's is even smoother than that.
Detmer's is 6-2, 210 pounds.
His arm slot is about three-quarters,
not very much torque at all.
His delivery is very effortless,
and I know you saw a video of this as well.
Yes.
As far as the effortless delivery goes.
I did.
He makes 90 look like 95,
just because of the slight movement
at the tail end of his fastball.
It's almost like a tailing cutter.
I like the video I saw in this kid a lot.
lot.
Absolutely.
The durability is going to be massive for the Angels because, as I've mentioned, they had a ton
of injuries last year.
You know, J.C. Ramirez got hurt.
Griffin Canning got hurt.
You had the Tyler Skaggs tragedy last year.
The Angels were so short on pitching that they could always use more pitching.
There's even a projection that Reed Detmer's, if needed, could play next year as a call-up
because a lot of people are saying that he's almost emerald.
will be ready as it is. That is amazing. He's a college junior. He was not a senior this year.
Yeah, college junior. Obviously, he's got some polishing to do as far as some very slight delivery stuff.
But he says he's already very good with his command, and he feels like his commands could be even better.
That's scary. That is terrific. If he wants to work at command, this guy also gets how to pitch
and how to be successful.
That gives me high hopes for this kid.
Yeah, it's a really bright future for Reid Detmer's,
and very solid pick by the Angels.
I think he was one of the better pitchers out there,
probably one of the top two left-handed pitchers,
and obviously the Mariners getting the top right-handed pitcher.
I mean, it's a good draft for both teams that we're covering right now.
That is fantastic.
On that note, JD, we're going to take a break here,
you know, for a day or so and come back tomorrow
and focus on the rest.
of the first round.
Where can people find you on Twitter, sir?
They can find me at Stimpy J.D,
which is Stimpy, like the cartoon from Nickelodeon, J.D.
And you could also find me at Locked on Anaheim Ducks.
The Twitter for that is L.O. underscore Ducks.
And you can find Locked on Angels by searching for Locked on Angels.
I'm doing double duty this week.
I've got Locked on Angels this week.
I've got Locked on Ducks this week.
I'm doing your show this week.
So that's triple duty, basically, because you're doing a lot of
a heavy lifting on my show.
I'm hosting way too much these days.
Well, you're not necessarily hosting this program,
but, you know, anyways,
next time, Jady will be with me next time
on Locked-on Mariners, and we will be joined
by guest panelists, Officer Bill Gannon,
Guy Smiley, and a bracken-furn.
The five of us will continue to break down
the remainder of the first round
of the Major League Baseball Amateur Draft.
In the meantime, please remember to download
Raiden, subscribe to Lockdown Mariner's on Google Podcast, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher Radio,
or whichever podcasting app that your brainhead can think of.
Follow the show on Twitter at L.O. underscore Mariners, and follow me on Twitter as well at D.C.
underscore Lundberg.
See you next time.
Awesome. Awesome. Awesome.
I think I'm going to take a day break and maybe do some crochet.
Ooh, that's a little segue into tomorrow's show.
Hmm.
This is Joey Martin speaking for Locked-on Mariners.
Ask your smart device to play locked on MLB upon the conclusion of this program.
