Locked On Mariners - Daily Podcast On the Seattle Mariners - Hall of Fame Voting + Gausman, Means and the Mariners

Episode Date: November 25, 2021

Hosts Ty Dane Gonzalez and Colby Patnode tell you who they would vote for on this year's Hall of Fame ballot. Then they discuss the Mariners' inclusion in Kevin Gausman's market and also talk Marcus Stroman and John Means.Be sure to follow or subscribe to Locked On Mariners wherever you prefer your podcasts! For questions and other inquiries, email: [e-mail] the show on Twitter: @LO_Mariners | @danegnzlz | @CPat11For more of Ty and Colby, check out their Patreon: patreon.com/controlthezone/Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order.BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

You are Locked-on Mariners, your daily Seattle Mariners podcast, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Welcome to Locked-on Mariners, your home for Daily Seattle Mariner's News and Analysis. Thank you so much for making us your first listen of the day, just like you do here every day. We greatly appreciate the support. Remember, we are free and available on all platforms. And today is Wednesday, November 24th, 2021.

Happy Hawkeye Day, if you're at MCU. fan and Marvel Studios fan. I am your host, Tiding Gonzalez. Join as always by my co-host, Colby Patnode. Follow us on Twitter at L-O-U-U-U-N-S-Rerner. You can follow me at Dan Gonzalez. It's D-A-N-Z-Z and Colby at C-P-A-E-T-E-L-E-L-E-N-E-Pat-E-T-E-PAT. Be sure to also check out our Patreon where we talk about the Mariners even more,

and also get into some non-baseball talk twice a week. New episode dropping for all of our patrons later today. Visit patreon.com forward slash control the zone. For more information on that, if you want to listen to it, But on today's episode of Locked-on Mariners, we're talking Hall of Fame. Which players on the current ballot would we immortalize if we had the power to vote? We're also going to be talking about a couple of starting pitchers, one that the Mariners are confirmed to have interest in.

And another, Colby and I were personally told they targeted during the season, who is now apparently on the trade market. If you like what you hear, give the show a follow or subscribe wherever you listen to this. We greatly appreciate it. So, Colby, we're going to start here with the Hall of Fame discussion, though. and look at the ballot here for 2022. Plenty of intriguing names getting on for the first time this year. Obviously, Alex Rodriguez, Justin Moreno, Jimmy Rollins, Mark Tickshara, Ryan Howard,

Carl Crawford, some really fun guys that you and I grew up watching. To just get this out of the way here before we actually cast our votes, and we're going to have to be pretty quick about it under our time. but, you know, for me personally and Colby, I know you feel the same way. I am not one of those people that feels the Hall of Fame needs to be this limited, exclusive thing. I think it's very gatekeeping. I think if you vote for less than 10 players on your ballot, it's kind of ridiculous.

It's stupid. I think we should put as many great baseball players in the Hall of Fame as possible. So I assume, Colby, that you and I are both going to be selecting 10, names today, right? Oh, absolutely. I could, I could probably, honestly, I looked at the list last night and I was like, I think I could make a pretty solid case for like 15 of these guys. Some are obvious. Some are borderline. And I'm not even counting guys like Omar Viscall, who I don't believe is a Hall of Fame or so he's not even one of the 15 that I'm talking about. So that, that should tell you how loaded this ballot is. Yeah, for sure. So let's get us started here. Tell me a couple of guys who

just jump out immediately to you. I think it's pretty obvious some of them, right? I assume you're starting with Barry Bonds because another thing we need to say here is that you and I don't really care about the steroid stuff, right? Like we are going to be voting in guys that have that in their history. Yeah, I'm more likely to vote for guys, not vote for guys who had issues off the field than guys who had, you know, issues on the field. They're just different for me.

So Barry Bonds right now is the greatest baseball player who's ever lived. Like maybe Trout overtakes him, but right now it's bonds. Like 500 stolen bases, 762 home runs, yet a 162 career war. Yeah. I mean, you had a career 44 on base and a 607 slugging throughout his entire career. So bonds to me is an operator. He should have been in the first ballot, but whatever. Steroid baseball writers think that they, you know, they're somehow not hypocrites for

ignoring the steroid era until it was convenient for them to start reporting on it. So bonds and Clemens, Clemens might arguably be the best pitcher of all time. So yes, those two guys are absolutely in. It's a no-brainer for me. I would have voted for them all 10 years if I had a vote. It's ridiculous that those two aren't in the Hall of Fame yet. And if you really care that much, just mention it on their plaque or something. Like, it doesn't really matter.

Ultimately, how I see it is you can't tell the story of baseball without them, for better or worse, right? And that's what the Hall of Fame should be. It should be the complete history of baseball. It should tell that. It should tell that story. So you can't tell that story without Barry Bonds and Roger Clements. You just can't. And also, like, no one has a problem with A-Rod.

I bet a lot of people are going to be voting for A-Rod this time around. As they should. As they should. Yes, A-Rod is also on my ballot. Yeah, and he's also on mine. arguably, arguably the best shortstop of all time. Like, that's what we're talking about here. We're not talking about fringy guys who got busted.

We're talking about like literal goats. And yeah, those three are a no-brainer for me, honestly. I don't think A-Rod gets in this year, which is stupid, but I'm just going to assume that the gatekeeping is going to continue. And A-Rod's not going to get in this year. Might take them a couple years, but we'll see how it turns out. So another really interesting guy on here, is David Ortiz. This is first year. Obviously, just full-time

DH. There's been the debate with, you know, I mean, obviously it took Edgar 10 years, the full 10 years to get in. And Edgar, I mean, definitively, you look at the... He's better. He's better. Statistically, is definitively better. So even though that I would put Ortiz on my ballot, I hope that he does struggle a little bit here to get in because what was the point of holding that out then. Yeah. For me, Ortiz is not on my ballot. And it has it has more to do with the stupid, the stupid rule that writers have to follow where you can only have 10 votes. Only,

you can only vote for up to 10 guys. And well, Ortiz is going to get plenty of votes. So he doesn't need my vote. He might even get in without it. But if not, he's in no danger of falling off the ballot. There are other guys who I think are a little more deserving than Ortiz in general, who could use the extra vote. So I decided not to put him on my ballot. If there wasn't the stupid 10 rule thing, then I absolutely would vote for him. It's one of the dumber things about the baseball Hall of Fame voting,

and there are a lot of dumb things, is this idea that, well, he's not a first ballot Hall of Famer. He's a Hall of Famer, but not first ballot. Like, that means nothing. If you've ever used that line, you're stupid. I mean, either guy's a Hall of Fame or he's not. Orte's a Hall of Famer. So I don't care of its first ballot or 10th ballot.

Just get him in. But for me, he is not on my Hall of Fame ballot because I wanted to use my 10 votes to do the most good as I possibly could. All right. So tell me some of your other names here. Just list them off real quick. We have three that you say that you have already with Bonds, Clemens, and Arod. All right. So who's your remaining seven?

Scott Roland. Perfect. Great. He's on mine as well. And I want to talk about him real quick. because he is criminally underrated. Criminally underrated. Oh, yes, he is.

Yes. He's a great defender, great hitter, and he was great for like 10 years. Like, he's, it's a no-brainer for me. I can't believe he's going to get in this year. He was at 70% or sorry, 52% last year. So maybe not this year. Maybe start thinking about it next year.

But he's only on his fifth try. He's going to get in. But Roland's a perfect kind of guy that you want to clear off. the ballot so that more so you can give votes to other guys down below who are maybe deserving but you run out of room so both for him get him off the ballot into the hall of fame where he belongs and then I can give that vote to somebody else next year so Roland yes easy uh manny Ramirez is a yes for me yeah he's a yes for me as well yes Andrew Jones yep I have him as well uh Gary Sheffield Todd Helton

Yep Great choice Jeff Kent Yep Another great choice And here's kind of where you have to do the stupid ballot game Because that's nine right Like I think Sammy Sosa is a Hall of Famer

But this is his last year And he's not getting in He's only at 17%. So do I waste a vote on Sammy Sosa Probably not don't think I'm going to do that. So, you know, as unfortunate as that is, I'm probably not going to do it. So I'm going to go ahead and I'm going to give my final vote here to, see, I'm kind of, see, again, this is, this is where it gets hard.

I'm going to give it to my final vote to Billy Wagner, who is just, you know, one of the top probably 10 relief pitchers of all time. And he's on a seventh try. He's only a 46%. So you can't really afford to, you know, mess around with that. So that's why I give it to Wagner over guys like Petit, Abraeu, you know, even Tim Hudson, Mark Cheshara is an interesting case too. So, but I'm going to give it to Wagner. And really it came down to Wagner versus Abraeu because a Brayu might fall off the ballot this year. And that's a shame because he's a very good player.

Yeah. All right. So for me, I'm going bonds. I'm going Clemens. I'm going A-Rod. I'm going to have Ortiz on there. Obviously, Scott Rowland. Obviously, Andrew Jones. I think a lot of people don't remember how good Andrew Jones was. He was fantastic. You should go look at his numbers right now. If you're listening to this. Manny Ramirez, I believe that's what, six, seven now that I'm mad. Seven. Seven. All right. Thank you for keeping track. I appreciate it. I'm going to go Jeff Kent, of course. Billy Wagner, like you said, one of the greatest relievers of all time. And you know what? I think I'm going to go with Jimmy Rollins at number 10. First timer.

The hate to Gary Sheffield. I'm sorry, but I, dude, Jimmy Rollins is so fun. Gary Sheffield might be the most underrated member of the 500 home run club. Yeah, he is.

Sheffield hit 292, 394, 514 in his career. I mean, he was great Rollins is a fun one because he didn't really have the length like he didn't have like this like he definitely had a prime right

and at his prime he was probably just about as good as any shortstop in baseball but he didn't really have this like super like Edgar had just like 15 great years in a row Rollins was kind of like you know the year that they won the World Series right

he was a six and a half-win player. He was just a fantastic, really fun player and a absolute star, the face of the Phillies franchise for a long time. He was fantastic. And those teams that he played on were so fun with Chase Utley and Ryan Howard and Shane Victorino and all those guys. Like, he was a lot of fun to watch. To me, Rollins kind of falls into that Hall of Very Good. I don't know he's a Hall of Famer I certainly he is more deserving

than Omar Viscale who got 40 some odd percent of the vote last year so yeah I would definitely vote for Rollins is one of those guys who's like yeah maybe if I had more like again if it was just a simple yes or no

like it should be like is this guy a hall of fame or yes or no you can vote for as many yes as you want I'd probably give him a yes just because again I'm a big hall guy and Jimmy Rollins is a great player for a long time time so I just I don't I don't care enough to be like no I same goes for a guy like Prince

fielder I'd probably throw him a yes too yeah uh fielder's probably gonna fall off the ballot and that's that's gonna make me sad because he was a great player yeah that is sad he was he was a lot of fun it's unfortunate what happened with his neck and everything but uh yeah you know and also you know just uh I I didn't want to have the same exact ballot as you so I wanted I wanted to throw out an interesting one there and I love Jimmy rollins growing up he was one of my favorite non-mariners grown up. So got to show love to him. He was awesome.

So I'm hoping the best for him here in this, this Hall of Fame process. Hoping the best for a lot of these guys. I hope quite a few of them make it. And I hope that some of the more modern voters that have come in as of late in the baseball writers of America Association are going to be more open-minded with a lot of these guys and help some of these guys, you know, be inducted into the Hall of Fame as they should be and help grow the story of baseball as it should. So we are going to move on and we're actually going to talk about the Mariners now and start talking about some pitchers. We're going to

start with one of them that they were directly linked to last night by John Morosi in just a moment after a quick reminder that this episode of Lockedon Mariners is brought to you by Bilt Bar. I love Thanksgiving. All of the good food and treats and plenty of them to go around. But maybe you want a yummy dessert, one that isn't so full of calories and sugar. Well, it's the perfect time for built bars. Built bar is the new holiday dessert. Feast on something delicious and feel good about it for once. One slice of pie has an upwards of 300 calories, and that's on the low end if you're lucky. Meanwhile, most built bars are only 130 calories and only 4 grams of sugar with plenty of protein. So replace the coconut cream pie with coconut built bar. Go for a raspberry built bar instead of that

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You're listening to Lockdown Mariners. Thank you again for making us your first listen of the day. Every day. We greatly appreciate the support. Continue to share us with your friends, family, all those out there who, you know, who are Mariners fans are excited about this team, excited about this offseason. And the stove is starting to get a little bit hotter. It's not exactly there.

I would say it's a little over lukewarm, if you will. Stephen Matt signed last night with the Cardinals, and that's been kind of a whole ordeal today with Steve Cohen and the Mets and all that good stuff. The Giants obviously made some moves. And speaking of the Giants, one of their free agent pitchers, Kevin Gossman, their biggest free agent pitcher, Kevin Gossman, is starting to get some traction in his market. And last night, John Marosi, linked the Mariners, along with the Angels and the Blue Jays, to Gossman. So Colby, Gossman's a guy that you and I have talked a lot about, but we kind of figured that maybe he would be a little bit too much out of Seattle's range, especially with their focus on bats right now.

but what do you think about Gossmann? What do you think about the fit? What concerns you? What excites you about Kevin Gossman? Yeah, Gossman's probably the top of the market after Scherzer. And, I mean, to a certain extent, Kershaw, although it's a little bit different with Kershaw because of all the injuries. So, yeah, it's kind of surprising that they would be interested in him from that perspective.

I also think it's kind of interesting because Gossman figures to get a lengthy contract, probably five years at least. And it kind of seems like maybe Seattle doesn't want a long-term contract fit. Just based on how a lot of starters right now, they appear to be taking an extra guaranteed year over a little higher AAV. And that could be why Seattle hasn't been in on most of these guys. So would Gossman on a five-year deal make sense? I mean, in theory, yes.

You'd get him for his age 31 through 35 season. but it just doesn't seem to fit what Seattle wants. It feels like Seattle really wants some upside one or two-year guys so that they have Kirby and Hancock and Brash and whoever ready to go behind them. So from that perspective, it's a little weird. Gossmann was a great pitcher last year. Pretty good the year before as well. He does a lot of the things that Jerry likes.

At least he adds the last few years. he misses bats and he doesn't walk guys. The strikeouts per nine is over eight. The walk per nine is under three, which is typically a pretty good indicator that Jerry's going to be interested in you. And in the case of Gossman, his strikeouts per nine are over 10. And his walks per nine are still under three. So the concerns are, again, he's 31.

He is coming off of his best year, career year. So you're going to be paying for that a little bit. there was a slight decline in the second half of last year he wasn't nearly as dominant as he was in the first half and also he throws a ton of split finger fastballs and sliders and those combined tend to wreck some havoc on your elbow when you throw it as much as he did so there are some legitimate injury concerns and i mean they haven't popped up yet but there is going to be damage to the elbow. It might be fine.

I mean, Maserro Tanaka was supposed to get, you know, Tommy John every year and he was fine. So I'm not saying Cosman is a ticking time bomb, but you do have to take everything into account, especially when you're probably going to be talking about giving him at least five years and $100 million. Does that sound about right? Something in that range. It's going to be interesting to see how his market plays out compared to someone like

Robbie Ray, right, Ray obviously coming off the Sy Young year and all that and Gossman, like you said, fell off a little bit there towards the end of the year. I am concerned about the splitter and how that might mess with his elbow a bit

here. There's definitely quite a bit of risk to assume with this deal, but also you're getting a guy that's really started to figure it out since he's left Baltimore. And it seems like he's still kind of on an upward trend, even though that he did struggle in the second half there

a little bit, I think he, there's, there might still be a little bit more there with Kevin Gossman. And that's what really excites me about him. And that's what, you know, when we were doing kind of our preliminary offseason plans and

just kind of looking to this off season during the regular season. I mean, he was arguably my top target for the Mariners for a while there because I just I think there might even be some upside with him even though that he's already you know taken quite a few steps forward over the last couple years so I'm very excited about Kevin Gossman and excited by the the news now that they are in his market so I'm interested to hear from you though about how you feel the Mariners chances stack up to the other teams he was

mentioned in the same breath with the angels and the blue jays. Yeah. To me, it's not like, I saw something the other day that was like, oh, the mayor should sign him so the angels don't. I'm assuming that's a joke. I hope that's a joke, but don't do that. I just, for me, Gossman is, you know, regardless of who else is interested in him,

it makes sense. Seattle. It really does. So, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's to me the, the, the, the where he's going is, um, or where he could go beside you is, it's pretty irrelevant to be, be quite honest with you. You just want the pitcher because he's a good pitcher. Um, for me, the bigger concern with Gossman just overall is just, can I get him for four years? Because that seems like the ideal length. I, I don't want to give him six or six. or seven years. And I feel like there's an outside shot. He's going to get that. And I just,

that's more of a concern to me than what have you pitches for the Angels or the Blue Jays. I just, I don't care. Do you think that's what they would have to do to pry him away from either one of those teams? Like if they, if, if Toronto or Anaheim offered him a four year deal, would you have to go five or six? Or do you think those teams don't hold that way? I don't think so. They don't pull that weight. I don't think they have that kind of leverage in, you know, again, the nice thing about if it's between those three teams, no income tax in Washington. So, I mean, the other teams would actually probably have to bid more money to get him to come because, again, you know, he's going, the amount of real money he makes by not having his

income tax in the state of Washington is pretty significant. So I just, I don't think those two teams have enough clout. if San Francisco gives him four years or whatever, maybe Seattle has to go five. But if it's Anaheim and Toronto and all four teams, all three teams have a four-year contract out there and I'm Seattle, maybe I give you a little bit higher AAB, but I'm not giving you an extra year.

Yeah. All right. We're going to stay on the topic of starting pitchers with Mariners, another guy that they might target via trade. We know that they talk. to the team that he's currently on about him and about trading for him earlier this year. So it would seem likely that they're probably in on his market now. We'll tell you who, Justin Marlman, but real quick, a reminder of this episode of Lockdown

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So don't wait to take advantage of all the amazing offers available for the 2021 season. Bet Online is the fastest and easiest way to bet on all your favorite sports. bet online we're stuffed with deals this Thanksgiving so before we talk about the mariner's potential trade target if you're in the business of playing twitter detective here as we're recording paul seawald mariner's reliever tweeted at marcus stroman saying nobody's future is brighter than the pacific northwest we love to have you bro and marcus stroman responded saying my dog unreal year for you love what you got going on up there let's see how this all plays out. I can't wait to compete wherever it may be. Marcus Stroman, of course, very active on

social media, very active in talking with fan bases, etc. But he does admit that he loves what's going on in Seattle. So maybe there is some interest there for Marcus Stroman, who Colby, you and I have said is a pretty, pretty good fit for the Mariners, both from what they need and in terms of justice clubhouse fit. What do you think about Stroman? Yeah, that'd be great. It's again, with Stroman, there are some concerns. He doesn't miss bats. And again, Seattle's rotation has a lot of guys who don't miss bats. So

that's kind of the issue there for me in terms of fit. But yeah, there's very little doubt. He would be a great fit in the clubhouse. I think he would be an awesome fit with the city itself. East Coast guy went to Duke, you know, pitch for Toronto and the Mets. not a lot of experience out here on the West Coast, but hey, you know, that doesn't mean that he's just not going to sign with the West Coast team.

So, yeah, I mean, it's fun. Stroman is definitely high on our list. We had them in our, I think we both had them in our individual offseason plans at some point. He's a great culture fit, and he really can't help Seattle on the field as well. But there are some concerns there. And I just refuse to play Twitter detective with Paul Seawald, who's just like this, super like jovial guy. So I'm not,

I'm not engaging in that side of the conversation. But no, Stroman would be a, would be a nice ad. Again, hopefully less than five years would be really nice. And, you know,

honestly three would be ideal. But we'll see what happens there. All right. So let's, let's talk about what we teased about at the end of the last segment. The Orioles are potentially looking to trade left-handed pitcher John Means who of course no hit the Mariners earlier this year and uh apparently

they are actually considering offers that was the the wording used uh with the report yes that came out yesterday i forget who who made that report uh apologies to whoever that was but john means is apparently available and the aureals are at least considering the offers uh that have been made apparently. And we know that the Mariners have at least expressed interest in him in the past, because we were told during the season that around June, early July-ish, they called the Orioles about Means. Ultimately, nothing came from that, of course. But I would assume that if there offers on the table for John Means, the Mariners probably have one of those, right? I think so, but there are some concerns here with

with Means which also might actually help the Mariners afford him for a reasonable price. But yes, we were both told that Seattle did ask about Means. We don't know how far those talks got, but they have had conversations. And typically that's how this thing works. When Means is getting shopped this winter, it's because teams were asking about him in July. And we know the Mariners are one of those teams. There are certainly some things about

means that really are very Jerry Depoto-esque. And, you know, it's, we talked earlier about the, the K-per-9 and the walk-per-9 numbers and means checks off both of those lists. You know, last two years, he's been 8.7 and 8.2, uh, K-per-9 and under two, uh, based on ball per nine. In fact, 1.5 based on ball per nine over the last two seasons. Yeah, I mean, means is a good pitcher. He's probably a number four, though. we're being quite honest with you. I think,

you know, he's Marco Gonzalez, who misses a few bats, a few more bats. That's pretty much who he is. And he wasn't very good in the second half of last year. He ran a, it was a 4-88 ERA in the second half of last year after a 228 ERA to start the year,

which, um, is troubling. I mean, there's no, there's no way around it. That's troubling. Um,

and there's also some, uh, lingering issues with a shoulder. injury that is left to take into, you have to take that into account. But yes, to answer your question in a very roundabout way, yes, I believe the Mariners are a team that is probably sent an offer to Baltimore regarding John Means. So looking at Means here, the numbers obviously three years of club control. So that's certainly appealing. But only a two and a half one pitcher by Fangraf standards last year,

which is good, not great. It's not worthy of high-end prospect return, but the one thing that you and I have both been concerned about is that the Orioles are going to overvalue him because he's one of their best assets because they're, well, to be nice, they're bad. They're not good at baseball. So, but, you know, Means is one of those few guys

that is actually, you know, pretty good at baseball. And as we saw with, with Merritt, field in the royals another not great team teams can overvalue their few assets that they do have and that can create issues i can pretty much make it where trading for them is just not at all a possibility uh but again looking at the numbers here looking at his percentile rankings in 2021 uh high fastball spend rate guy 84th percentile on that front uh he was 96 percentile on walk rate. So that's fantastic. The rest of the numbers, though,

are pretty overwhelming. He was ninth percentile and max X of velocity. That's not great. Thirteen percentile barrel percentage. That's not great. 25th percentile. Next slugging. But, you know, really, again, the barrel percentage is really

concerning because he's not going to miss bats. And when he is pitching to contact, he's catching a lot of barrels. Just going to lead to damage. And he's also not, he doesn't get guys to chase either you know he's obviously because of the low strikeout numbers he is not getting guys to whiff a lot 43rd percentile on that front and again like I said only 38th percentile on chase rate so that's not super exciting no it's just it's just tough to look at john

means and say what's a trade package i feel good about that baltimore would like because i mean would you trade Brandon Williamson for John Means? I kind of feel like Brandon Williamson could become John Means at like a two years, but like obviously you want the help now. But yeah. So I probably would trade him straight up for John Means, but is Baltimore going to do that? No, they're probably going to want more. And then it's like, okay, well, do you want Levi Stout or Adam Macco? Because that, I mean, that's, it's getting up there.

It would have to be some sort of package, right? but it's got to be a package that's led by Levi Stout or whatever, because I don't want to give one of my top seven, which includes Williamson, right, plus more. Right. It's just he, there's just, there's a lot of concern there.

Plus, when you throw in a shoulder issue. Mm-hmm. And also you have leverage as a buyer in this situation because the Orioles aren't going to be good for a while. like I think they're going to take another step forward this year. Like I think they're going to be better than they were last year out. Obviously, it's not that isn't super hard to do. The bar is very low to clear.

But even then, like he's got three years left to control by the time that that ends. Are the Orioles going to be competitive? It might be. Maybe. They have Mullins and Montcastle and Adley Rutchman. I mean, they've got some pieces. Yeah. They got pieces, but is that all going to come together in that time?

Well, I mean, they're also going to have some money. I think there's a non-zero chance that the Orioles are good before means hits free agency. I wouldn't say it's a great chance. But hey, you know, I mean, the Mariners won 90 games and is their roster significantly better than the Orioles last year? No, not really. Their bullpen was, but that's, I mean, Cedric Mullins is the best player out of all, you know, 52 guys. it's on those 26 man roster. So yeah, I mean, I don't know.

It's possible. I just, to me, my concern is that can I get, can I get means for either one really good, like he's Brandon Williamson, right? Just throw him out there. Or can I get him for bulk where like the, the headliner is like Adam Maco and then it's,

you know, Taylor Dollar and. And by the way, Adam Macco should not be like overlooked here. It's just, you know, kind of like, oh. No, he's just a step below. Yeah, he's a step below. He's a step below.

Really interesting. I think Maco is the guy that a lot of people are severely underrating right now. Yeah. If you're a spin rate guy, like you love spin rates, Maco's your guy. There are some really interesting things happening with Maco, especially as fastball. I mean, there's a non-zero chance macco, as John means. So, yeah. Yeah, I'm just throwing him out there because he's just a step below.

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, they should have interest, but again, he's the number four, sometimes the number three. And then every once in a while, he can look like a number two or number one. If they got him, and just to wrap up here, because we need to hop off here, but I'll ask you this last question here, if they got two pitchers, and one of them, including John Means, and another pitcher that's basically the same as John Means, are you content with that? Because I'm probably not.

I feel like they need to get someone better on top of that John Means type. Yeah. I mean, it's just kind of tough. Means is kind of a tweener. Like, he's probably a little bit better than your average four, but he's, I wouldn't feel good about saying he's the number three in a good rotation.

So yeah, if I'm getting like Means and Pineda, like, it's okay. but I would prefer it be like Sunny Gray and John Means. Yeah. That's what you're talking about. Yeah.

Yeah. Something like that. So yeah. Yeah. I think I'd be okay with it so long as they really brought in some, you know, some offense and defense to help them out. So yeah. I'd be okay with it.

But I wouldn't be like doing backflips like, oh, that's that's a World Series quality rotation right there. Now if it is maybe it gets into July. how do you feel? Pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah, I would too. So if these are the two guys that they get,

the two guys that we've talked about today, I'd be cool with that. As long as the as long as the offense is still like a priority here, right? As long as it doesn't take away from me being able to still go after a Marcus Semyon or someone like that, which it shouldn't, even if they sent Gossmann, like they should still be in the running for a Marcus Simeon or whatever of you.

But, but, they need pitchers, plural. Yeah. But I would be, I would be certainly into that. If they got Means and Gossman and means is a good at it.

If they, if they do come out with him, great. It would be a lot of fun. So, uh, that's going to do it for our show. Thank you so much for joining us here on lockdown Mariners for Colby Patnode.

I'm Tiding Gonzalez. be sure to give us a follow on Twitter at L-O-O-U-U-U-N-S-R-N-E. You can follow me at Dane Gonzalez, the C-A-N-Z-Z-Z and Colby at C-P-A-L-E. You can also find all that stuff in the description of this episode. And thank you again for making us your first listen of the day, just like you do every day. No episode tomorrow because of the holiday, unless the Mariners finally do something.

If so, we'll get you covered on that. But if not, we will be back on Friday for Fan Fiction Friday. So be sure to send us your Mariners trade ideas via Twitter or email at locked on mariners at gmail.com. And in the meantime, make your second list of the day, Lockdown Betts, your daily one-stop shop for all your gambling needs. Locked on bets hosted by your boy Q with expert analysis and insight from Lee Sterling. And just like us, their show is free and available wherever you get your podcast. So happy Thanksgiving and we'll see you later this week. Peace.