Locked On Mariners - Daily Podcast On the Seattle Mariners - Hall of Famery, Walker, the Captain and Me (And Don Shelton)

Episode Date: January 22, 2020

Special guest Don Shelton joins D.C. to discuss this afternoon's Hall of Fame Ballot election announcement, and his thoughts on some of the players on the ballot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Well, what do you know? We've actually got music now. Ladies and gentlemen, good evening and welcome to Locked-on Mariners, part of the Locked-on Podcast Network. A quick reminder that you can get Locked-on Mariners and all the other great locked-on podcasts on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Spotify, Stitcher Radio, or whatever podcasting app you choose. You can follow the show on Twitter at L-O-U-U-U-Nariners, and you can follow me on Twitter at D.C. underscore Lundberg.

That's L-U-N-D-B-E-R-G if you're scoring at home. Well, gang, today was the big day. The Hall of Fame election results were announced mere moments ago, well, maybe an hour ago, as of this recording, and the question weighing heavily on everybody's mind, will Sean Figgins be a Hall of Famer? Well, in short, no. However, in addition to Ted Simmons and Marvin Miller,

who were voted in via the Veterans Committee, two more players gained entry to the most hallowed shrine in North America. It was a foregone conclusion, that Yankees shortstop Derek Jeter would be voted in, the only question would be whether or not he would be unanimous. And there was one, yes, one lone holdout among the 397 voters. In addition to Jeter, Simmons, and Miller, Larry Walker will also be enshrined in Cooperstown this season,

just barely squeaking in with about 78% of the required 75% of the vote. He was six votes ahead of the threshold. Kurt Schilling clocked in with 70% this season, a 10-point gain from last year. Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds hovering around that 60% mark. Not much of a gain, but Omar Biscale gained about 10 points. Roland made a pretty big gain. And Adam Dunn, Brad Penny, Raul Lubanias, and JJ Putts each received one vote apiece.

Here to talk about this election and some other Hall of Famery is first-time hall voter and former executive editor of the Seattle Times, Mr. Don Shelton. Don, thank you for joining us this evening. Thank you. I'm happy to be aboard and looking forward to talking to you. Terrific. First, let's talk about Jeter, the obvious one. I don't know how much conversation will get out of this. One of the best at his position ever, I mean, he needs no introduction. What's to you? Oh, he's one of the all-time greats. He's a once-in-a-generation player. I mean, it's hard to argue with over 3,000 hits, great defensive shortstop, you know, a great all-round player, offensively and defensively. at arguably the hardest position,

the most important defensive position on the field. And, you know, all the championships, the Yankees won with Jeter. He was a no-brainer. I'm surprised that someone didn't vote for him. I kind of want to know who it was. I have a guess, but I won't say who I think it's... Okay, well, I did vote for him, so you can't pin it on me.

Exactly. So people out there, Don voted for him, so leave him alone. One story that I want to relay, I don't know how well-known the story is, but Derek Jeter talked about that his major league debut was in Seattle, and he had a deal with his father that after he made his major league debut, his father would take him out to dinner. Well, the game ran extra innings that day.

So the only open restaurant they could find was McDonald's. So to celebrate his major league debut, his father took him to McDonald's, I think it's a very, very neat story. I'd never heard that. That's a great story. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how well-known that story is. It ran here on our post-game show in Seattle,

or when I was living in Seattle at the time on Root Sports. And anyways, Walker, I didn't think he was going to get in quite honestly. I'm glad he did. I think he's a Hall of Famer. Please state in your case. I believe you did vote for him. I did. He was my second choice.

Well, actually, I voted for Bonds and Clemens as well, which we can talk about separately. But he was my next choice of the people who got in. And, you know, his numbers are great. The one thing that holds him back a little bit, you can't argue with anything. And it's a great defensive player as well. Oh, yes. That always gets overlooked.

Right, right. And a five-time All-Star. I mean, he's got all of it. But he played for the Rockies. And so that really hurts him. A lot of people kind of look on playing for the Rockies almost like, I mean, it's not like steroids,

but it's like an unfair advantage. And a little like Edgar being a designated hitter. They kind of discount the numbers. And I don't think that's fair. I mean, his numbers were great anyway, and he started with the Expos. Yes, he did. He was a great player. Yeah.

One thing that I remember about Larry Walker, aside from his bat to ball skills, he was a legitimate five-tool player. You touched on his defense. He was also a great base runner. He could steal a base when you needed to. Yep. He could do it all. He really could do it all.

And he jumped over 20 percentage points. That is huge. I can't recall that ever happening before. Yeah, I don't think it's, Not that I haven't been voting, but I've been following it. I don't remember it either. It'd be interesting to dig into that. But I think it was his last year.

He had to get in. If he was going to make it, it was going to be this year. And I think having such a big class last year kind of cleared out some of the names that were in front of them. So I think people looked at him and he was an obvious choice this year as opposed to last year. That's actually a really good point because among the writers ballot, there were four voted in it. in addition to the two in the Veterans Committee was a huge class last year. And I saw a statistic when I was watching,

or not a statistic, but Derek Jeter is the 13th first ballot Hall of Famer in the last seven years. That is a huge number. Good stat. You're doing your homework here, buddy. If watching TV is doing homework, I'm in the right business. And baseball? Is that homework? I mean, if that's my homework,

I was doing homework in grade school and when I was five years old, I've been preparing for this for 35 days. it years then, essentially. Well, I'll bring up Bonds and Clemens before we take our first commercial break. You did vote for Bonds, Clemens, and Manny Ramirez. Sheffield, too. State your case for those gentlemen, if you would, please.

Well, you know, they're all great, great players. You can, you know, the steroid, especially for Bons and Clemens, but really all those players, you, I think the way I look at it is if they played the game, even in the, the steroid or if they were suspected, even if they failed a drug test and got suspended, I still think you vote on their offensive numbers and you vote clearly on that. You don't vote on them because you thought they used steroids or that they got caught once using some banned substance. I also don't think you, just like you don't vote for somebody because they were a bad

quote or because they were an a hole in the locker room to you, you vote on what they did on the field. And I think that's something that baseball is having trouble with. Pete Rose, you know, that's another one that I didn't vote when he was, well, he can't vote for him. He's banned from the ballot. So should Rose be in? I think he should be. He did bet on baseball, but, you know, he was allowed to play, and they didn't discover it until afterwards.

Ty Cobb wasn't exactly a great human being either. And Babe Ruth wasn't an angel as well, but all those guys are in the Hall of Fame and for good reason. Thank you very much. We're going to take a break here on Locked-on Mariners. We will be right back after this very important commercial. word. We are back here on Locked-on Mariners continuing to talk with Don Shelton. Don, I want to go over some of the other players that you voted for that are on your ballot. First one I want to talk about is Jeff Kent. I think we're an agreement on this when I believe Jeff Kent should be in the

Hall of Fame. Please state your case for him. You know, I think he's just a really, really good offensive player. And at a position, I think he's far above the norm at his position. He's a middle in-field-fielder and those guys, 2,400 hits, 2-90 batting average. He deserves to be in there, even if he played in the outfield, and he played, you know, middle infield on second base. He also, you know, was an NL MVP, five-time all-star. I mean, the guys got all the credentials, I think. I'm not surprised he didn't get in, and I took a little bit of crap from, you know,

on Twitter when you post your ballot, which I did. Yeah. You take a little crap for that stuff because everybody thinks, a lot of people thought Scott Rowland should get my vote instead of Kent. They're close, but, you know, I gave it to Kent instead. And it was a close call. And you did use all 10-year votes.

I'll say that, too. Why would I waste, why would I vote for five or six? I can't imagine voting for less than 10. I know people do, but, you know, maybe the steroids thing, if you didn't vote for steroid player, you wouldn't be able to use your votes, but I like, I wanted to use them all. It was so much fun to fill that ballot out. Oh, I bet it was.

I spent, you know, days, hours, and it was just a joy. And, you know, I'm not sure I was a perfect ballot. And that's why it's so much fun, though. I don't know if there is such a thing as a perfect ballot. Everybody's got a different opinion. Yep. Next player I want to talk about is Omar Visckel. We're in agreement on this one also.

I would like to hear your case for him. Well, Omar started, you know, he started his career in Seattle. Oh, yeah. Where I was a sports editor and assistant sports center for years before I became executive editor. So, Omar, I was editing a lot of baseball stories. and out coordinating our coverage when Omar was playing. He's just a stupendous defensive player. I mean, probably the second best shortstop defensively ever.

He's got the 11 gold gloves. And he also has the highest, I think he has the highest fielding percentage of any shortstop in baseball history. I'm pretty sure he correct. I think that's right. And, you know, a lot of people discount his offensive numbers. He had almost 3,000. his 2,800, almost 2,900 hits because he played so long.

He played 24 years. But a lot of guys can't play 24 years in the big league. And at that position, no less. Yeah, yeah. He was a really good player. And, you know, some of the plays, when you go back to look at the highlights, it's amazing. I remember, I think it was the second no-hitter.

Well, it was no-hitter by Chris Bosio. Yes, yes. And he made this bare-handed grab that kind of saved the no-hitter. And I'll never forget that one. He's a great player. I agree with you. One point that I want to make, the comparisons to Ozzy Smith are inevitable.

They're going to happen. Smith, at his time, pretty much set the standard for what a defensive shortstop should be. And it's kind of like Omar said, okay, hold my beer. I'm going to go match that. He certainly tried his best to do that. And, you know, it's debatable whether he matched it or exceeded it.

But he's certainly close. And his offensive numbers are better than Ozzy Smith's ever were. Yeah, and I think the great thing about baseball is that you don't just have to look at one thing. You can make the Hall of Fame in, I mean, you obviously have to have some offensive numbers. Oh, yes. If you're a position player, just like you have to have a certain number of wins as a pitcher. But I think you can be a great defensive player. Just like you don't have to, he didn't hit a lot of home runs, but he made up for it with defense.

He was a good team player from everything I've heard. I think he deserves to be in. And just because he didn't have great offense, he hit 270. too. There's Hall of Famers with that kind of batting average in the Hall of Fame. That's a higher batting average than Brooks Robinson has. Yeah, yeah. Nobody argued about Brooks. Absolutely not, yeah. Yeah, and Brooks didn't play 24 years either. He played a long time.

But he was, and should Brooks Robinson be in the Hall of Fame? Absolutely. There's no question about it. Yep. Just like Omar. But whether he gets in or not, it'll be close. He'll come right down to the wire, I think. And how many years of eligibility does it have left? I don't have that number in front of me. I think it's his fifth year, but I, That's a good question. I'm not sure.

That sounds about right. My next question is actually not necessarily about any of your players, but I am curious as to the process that the Hall of Fame has you go through. And another question that I have is, do you have to apply to be a Hall of Fame writer? And if you could kind of walk us through those steps as well.

Well, you do have to apply. They have to okay. You have to be a member of the Baseball Writers Association of America for 10 years consecutively. And I was. So that's, and it just happened to be this year, was my 10th year. I wasn't a baseball writer. I was an editor, but I wrote, I've edited more baseball stories than you can count.

I'm an affidionado. I was trading baseball cards. I remember having a Hall of Fame baseball card set. Oh, wow. Yeah, I was probably like eight years old. I memorized those, I mean, Home Run Baker and just, you know, Trist Speaker. I knew all those guys. So this was, I was felt like a kid again.

I can almost smell the bubble gum that I got out of the cards when I was filling out my ballot. It was so much fun. So that's how you get in. I think the process is a good one. I think you can argue that I think you have to have a broad voting thing. But it's a little bit like the Golden Globes and that kind of stuff. I mean, you know, you have to have a certain number of votes. I think they have a high standard, 75%.

If it was 50%, I don't think it would be a very good process. but this makes it tough. And I don't know. Is Bond going to get in? What do you think? Clemens Bond, both guys? This is both their eighth season, and they've kind of stalled out in the last few years,

but they have gained little by little by little. And as kind of the old guard retires and doesn't vote anymore, and the newer voters are the ones that are voting for him, I don't think either of them are going to get in, but I think it's going to be closer than some people realize. I think that they may stall out around the 69. 70, 71% mark when it's all said, done. It's tough, and that's why it means something to get in Hall of Fame.

According to this, and I haven't double-checked it, but it says that the skills only is 30, which surprised me a little bit. And what was his percentage? I thought he said 40, but. This season he got, let's see, 40 was last year, this season, 52.6%. That was about a 10-point jump. I think he's going to get in based on that, because that's way ahead of where Edgar was. and Edgar obviously deserved it and got in.

So it'll be interesting. Yeah, I'm with you. I think he gets in too, and I cannot wait to see when that is. Ladies and gentlemen, we're going to take another break here on Locked-on Mariners. On the other side of said break, we will continue our conversation with Don Shelton.

Please stick around. Back once again on Locked-on Mariners, and back once again with Don Shelton. Don, you have Billy Wagner selected on your ballot. Let's talk about Billy Wagner a little bit. Well, I did a lot of research, and he wasn't going to get my vote at first, but I really dug in and looked at, you know, he didn't have the big, huge numbers that some of the guys have for closers.

He didn't have as many saves. He didn't have as many any pitch, but he was so good. He played 14 years, and there was like, during those 14 seasons, he was unbelievable. And his 11.9 strikeouts per nine inning was the highest in Major League history. That's huge. So I, you know, by digging into that and his 187 batting average against was also the best in major league history for any pitcher with a certain number of innings. So I got his vote. He was dominant.

So I thought he deserved it. You know, he was a little like the scale. He was like maybe a few people argued the case. But I just love, he's a little guy that just threw hard and had some great stuff. So I loved it. Really powerful delivery. One of those drop and drive picks. pitchers. Yep. And he led the league in games finished twice. And those 422 saves really are not,

that's nothing to sneeze at. No. And let's talk about Kurt Schilling, 70% this year. I believe he also has two more shots at it. And he keeps getting closer and closer. Yeah. I think he should be in there. I voted, he was probably my number five choice. He was, you know, right after the guys that got in and Bonds and Clemens. You know, he's got a really high war, 79.4. He had 216 wins, which, you know, maybe isn't 300, but there's not a lot of guys that are going to get 300 anymore. No, and he pitched on some very, very bad Philadelphia Phillies teams.

Yep. And then when he got the chance to play in the postseason, he made the most of it. Oh, sure. He was 11-2 and postseason when three World Series and, you know, a six-time all-star. Again, I think he should get in. I don't know what, I mean,

just a high standard, but I almost wonder if some of his political views kind of get in his way, because people really kind of, for whatever reason, they find ways not to vote for him. I voted for him. Yeah, I'm with you on that one. My opinion on him has changed. And for me, it's strictly the numbers. I used to look at the 346 ERA, maybe the little bit of a low win total. But he had a number of league leader seasons in innings pitched and games finished. And he led the league in wins twice, winning percentage once, whip twice. I mean, my opinion has changed, and I do believe he is now a Hall of Famer. So I've come around on that one.

He might get in next year. You know, they'll have to have cleared out some of the people, but there's always a couple of guys. I'm not sure. I haven't looked ahead yet to see who's on the ballot next year. I don't know if there's another automatic first ballot guy, but I'm sure there will be. I think A-Rod's got to be coming up here pretty soon.

Pretty soon. I don't recall next year's class either, and if memory serves, I don't think there's really a surefire first ballader. And I will also say that Schilling made a nine-point jump this year, which is pretty significant as well. Right, right. And then, you know, Aeron is going to have some of the same steroid things he has to overcome as well. Yeah, he does. I think that's pretty much going to do it for this episode of Lockdown Manors.

Don Shelton, thank you again so much for joining us. Hey, thank you for having me. And it is really a pleasure to talk to you. And next time we'll do it over a... a beer, okay? Okay, you got it. I hope you'll come back on the show throughout the course of the season.

I'd be happy to. Terrific, I appreciate that. And you out there in podcast land, be sure to listen to the next episode of Locked-on Mariners, which is Thursday morning for a little trivia contest we're going to have between John D. Miller,

Taylor Blake Ward of Locked-on Angels, and Jason Hernandez of Locked-on Ducks. And be sure to download, subscribe, and rate Locked-on Mariners on Apple Podcast, Google Podcast, Spotify, Stitcher Radio, or your podcasting app of choice. Also remember to follow the show on Twitter at L.O. underscore Mariners, and follow me on Twitter at D.C. underscore Lundberg.

Hope you enjoyed today's show. Thank you very much for listening and have a great evening.