Locked On Mariners - Daily Podcast On the Seattle Mariners - Hye-seong Kim or Ha-seong Kim: Which Infielder Should the Mariners Target?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Today we're talking about the Kims, both Ha-Song Kim, who's set to make his way from the KBO to MLB this winter, and Ha-Song Kim, the former Padres unfielder, who's now a free agent. Plus, the Marys might not be making that many coaching changes this off season. That's pretty interesting. All that coming up here on the Lockdown Maras podcast, Colby, hit it. You are Locked-on Mariners, your daily Seattle Mariners podcast. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Ahoy, sailors, it is Thursday, November.

Starting point is 00:00:35 7th, 2024. This is tighting as awesome. Colby Patnode for the Lockdown Marrars podcast, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Today we'll be talking about a pair of Korean infielders, one of whom the Mariners apparently already have their eye on and another who also makes quite a bit of sense for them. Plus, Ryan Divish was on with our friend Ben Rennery the other night and said he doesn't expect too many coaching changes for the Marys this winter, which again, pretty interesting. But before we get into all that, shout out to our title sponsor today. Game time. Download the game. GameTime app, create an account, and use the promo code locked on MLB, that's L-O-C-K-D-O-N-M-LB for $20 off your first purchase.

Starting point is 00:01:13 And if you want to hear from me and Colby even more and help support the show, check out our Patreon. All you have to do is click the link in the description of this episode. So Justin Hollander was at the GM meetings this week, of course, and, you know, told the media that the mayors are looking for infield help. And John Marossi, the professional yapper, has taken to Twitter to say, the Mariners, known to be in the second base. base market are among the teams that have closely evaluated infielder High Song Kim, whom the Kiwum Warriors will post this offseason. Kim, a left-handed batter, had an 841 OPS and 30 stolen bases at age 25 in the KBO this season. So that's pretty interesting.

Starting point is 00:01:56 Kim, right now, we'll see if Roki Sasaki gets posted, but Kim is one of the most noteworthy names heading over from either Korea or or Japan this winter. And obviously plays out a position of need for the mayors. So let's start here. Who is Ha-Sung Kim, Coli? Yeah, he's a pretty interesting player. He is not a, you know, an elite type of player.

Starting point is 00:02:24 He is not even, you know, at the same caliber as Hassan Kim when he came over or as Lee when he came over last winter. He is not like at that level. So it's an interesting profile. My understanding, again, having not seen him play a single game and just reading the same reports as everybody else and all of that. My understanding is that he is a good to very good glove, but he's not an elite glove. He's not Andres Jimenez, but he's certainly better than Jorge Polanco. He is also a very good base runner. He is above average speed to maybe plus, but he's not, you know, like a burner.

Starting point is 00:03:05 per se like he's not quite Julio fast but he's certainly fast enough and he's a good base stealer with good instincts and he you know he kind of steals bases because he picks the right pitches and gets good jumps and all that stuff and obviously he has the speed to compliment it but it's not you know it's not 80 grade speed it's not an 80 grade glove both of those are probably in the 55 to 60 range is my understanding so the hit tool uh is is interesting uh high average low strikeouts in the KBO. He is kind of a slasher. He uses the whole field, slashes the ball all around, hits line drives. Did set a career high at home runs this last year, but it was only 11. And the KBO is known for being a bit of a hitter's paradise. So the fact that he has no power and his career high at home runs is 11. He's never slugged over 500.

Starting point is 00:03:56 you know, it's a bit of a concern. It does, to me, at least seem like that would limit his ceiling to one of not an everyday player type. But, you know, again, 25 years old, gets on base, assuming that that skill is repeatable with the higher level of pitching that he's going to face now. If he gets on base, he plays good defense, he steals some bags. It's still a valuable player, just not a guy who's going to, you know, he's probably only going to hit five to ten home runs. But, you know, he is 25. So there is the possibility that you can kind of teach a little more power there. But, you know, the KBO is not as good as the, it's not as good as competition as even the MPB.

Starting point is 00:04:42 So it's tough to judge these guys when they come over. And sometimes there's an adjustment period. Like Hassan Kim, it took him a couple of years in the majors to really kind of find his footing. and even he still hasn't quite reached the ceiling that a lot of people thought he was capable of when he came over. So you have to be careful here. What is the, you know, what is what is fair to expect from him in year one? Is he, you know, platoon guys is where maybe, hey, we still have Ryan Bliss and Dylan Moore on the roster. So if we bring him in as a second baseman, we can give it a shot if it doesn't work or he needs to be sat down against lefties.

Starting point is 00:05:19 We have other internal options or is it possible that they look at Kim and they, They've done all this work on him and they go, you know what? We think Dylan Moore probably gives us a better shot to be an everyday player than Kim does right now. Maybe, maybe not. But there's a lot of interesting things about Kim. Just based on everything I've read. And again, not having him seen, not having seen him play a single game, I want to reiterate that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:05:44 My understanding and my opinion is that he's a fringe everyday player, but it might take him a couple of years to get there. So if you're looking for immediate impact at second base, you want a guy who just plug into your lineup and start on opening day. I don't think Kim is that guy, which brings risk because you're going to have to give him a good amount of money and probably three, four years to get him to sign with you. So Kim, interesting player. I'm not surprised the merits have done their due diligence here. And I think maybe perhaps Kim might be better suited to be kind of a utility player, speed and defense. utility player but yeah kind of have to trust the mariners on this one and and uh until i see him

Starting point is 00:06:31 uh you know with my own eyes it's kind of tough to give you guys a uh a definitive you know statement uh on whether or not i like the idea or not sure so um MLB trade rumors dropped their free agent predictions the other day uh two of the four panelists that they had on there picked the Mariners for High Sun Kim. They set the contract projection at three years,

Starting point is 00:06:56 $24 million. So $8 million AAV. What do you think about that? I think I'd rather spend the $8 million on, you know, even a Carlos Santana or Justin Turner type.

Starting point is 00:07:10 Yeah, I think there's quite a bit of risk here that all you're doing is signing Dillamore's replacement. Right. Twice the cost. Yeah. So,

Starting point is 00:07:20 yeah. I think if I can get them in the $5 million range, I might take a shot on that. And again, do we wish it $3 million here or there didn't really make that big of a difference? Sure. But again, blah, blah, blah. We know it does.

Starting point is 00:07:38 And at $8 million, I'd rather just pay the extra 2.5 and go get Brandon Lau. You know, and have somebody who's actually produced at the big league level. So, yeah, Kim is interesting. Again, like I'm open to the idea that maybe he's more than I think. But again, just based on everything I've read,

Starting point is 00:07:59 you know, he seems like he might be a pretty good big, big leaguer. But essentially you're signing a guy who, you know, isn't double A to $8 million a year AAB. Like that's that's pretty, you know, that's pretty big risk considering. Yeah. How limited the Mariners? I think you have to at least ask the question here. Like, how much better is he than Ryan Bliss? maybe um i don't know i think a lot of people have that like that image of the one week where

Starting point is 00:08:30 ryan bliss was like the mariner's best player and they're like oh he can do that all and it's like sure but dude struck out a ton and triple a even and i mean but is high song kim eight million dollars better than ryan bliss i don't i don't know maybe he might be he might not be though uh and you know i don't even know bliss is the right guy here because dylan more is still in the organization and Dylan Moore. I mean, is he is he three million dollars better than Josh Rojas who you could just tender at less than five million bucks and have him play second base? Like I don't know. And that's the thing is that the Mariners do have some options at second base in house. They're not particularly good. Uh, but they do have, you know, Dylan Moore is at least, you know, a major leaguer, right? Josh Rojas is

Starting point is 00:09:13 mostly a major leaguer, although he put that theory to the test for like four months last year. So Yeah, it's just so hard for me to, you know, understand who this guy is when, again, I've never seen him play. You've never seen him play. We're just kind of going off of reports, right? Right. We're all working off the same information. I just have no idea how he's going to transition to the major leagues, right? If he does what he's at least like close to what he did in the KBO, then yeah, he's better than the other options you have, right?

Starting point is 00:09:46 But there's also the possibility, the very real possibility that he comes over to Major League Baseball. and he craters. I mean, like, you see Nico Horner? Maybe. Right. He might be. Right. That'd be great.

Starting point is 00:10:00 Yeah. He might also just be Dylan Moore. Probably look a little different than Dylan Moore, but like, that's probably like what's realistic to expect is like a guy who shouldn't play every day, but has value off the bench. But again, the Mariners have to pick and choose where they spend their money, unfortunately. Do they want to spend $8 million? for one guy on their bench when they're already spending, you know, $13 million on their backup catcher this year.

Starting point is 00:10:26 Like, it's tough to say. So I'm intrigued by Kim, certainly. And I'd be really excited to see him play just because I literally haven't yet. So, yeah, I think that's fine. But I think if you're banking on him to be the everyday second baseman on opening day, I think you're setting yourself up for disappointment. And you're just, it's another big, like, well maybe if this happens then maybe you can have you know it's like well how about we just I'm again for only like two million dollars more I can go get brandon low two million more and some prospects I can go get brandon low yeah you know I can go get Nico Horner and I would rather do that and give up the prospect capital to go get those proven major leaguers than to give a guy you know eight nine million bucks again if it's four or five fine take the shot so I just I feel like at eight nine million you start to kind of eliminate

Starting point is 00:11:20 other areas you can go attacking free agency. Right. So, yeah, tough to say. At the end of the day, like you said earlier, this is kind of one of those situations where you just have to defer to the team and defer to the league and how they value Kim. So we'll see.

Starting point is 00:11:37 But it's certainly an interesting profile, and we'll see if anything comes of this report here from John Marosi, which, to be fair, not a lot comes out of things that John Marossi quote reports. So we'll be talking about Ha-Sung Kim coming up here in just a moment. But first, a reminder of this episode of the Lockdown Marys podcast is brought to you by Robin Hood and Arena Club. With Robin Hood Gold, you don't need a silver spoon to eat up the financial favors of the 1%.

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Starting point is 00:14:21 this winter. Now let's talk about Ha-sung Kim, who made the same jump a few years ago, wound up signing with the San Diego Padres, who he just declined his mutual option with to become a free agent this winter. And the interesting thing with Hassan Kim is that he's coming off

Starting point is 00:14:37 of shoulder surgery. His agent Scott Boris yesterday at the GM meeting said that he expects Kim to resume hitting starting in January and should be ready for opening day, but also said that he might not be ready until May. So, So does that kill any sort of interests in Kim for you, Colby?

Starting point is 00:14:57 I'm not not interested in him, but obviously that has to factor in. Now, we did talk about this a little bit earlier that, you know, the Mariners actually have some internal options at second base. So if they do have to cover for a couple of weeks before Kim is ready, they can do that. Like Dylan Moore being your second basement for three weeks doesn't kill you. Ryan Bliss being your second basement for three weeks doesn't kill you. And like when Bliss's case,

Starting point is 00:15:21 you actually gain valuable intel off of Ryan Bliss and maybe you showcase him a little bit. Maybe maybe Ryan Bliss is the Dillmore replacement next year. And you learn that from, you know, these three, four weeks where he has to play. So it doesn't kill it, but it does have to factor into the price. It absolutely has to. And if you're Kim and his, his agent, you're saying, no, that doesn't factor into the price at all whatsoever. Like, no, no. So it's a bit of a, you know, a sticky situation.

Starting point is 00:15:49 you have to work around there. But, you know, just in theory, am I crossing Kim off the board because he might miss the first month of the season? No, but I do have to move him down the list a little bit, particularly if he's looking for a one or two-year deal. You know, I think trade rumors calls it a pillow contract. You get a soft landing and you go out in the free agent market. And again, he is, what, 29. So if he's getting a pillow deal, it's going to be a one-year deal. So, hey, cool, if I'm signing you to a one-year deal, but you're only going to be able to play five of the six months guaranteed.

Starting point is 00:16:26 That's not counting any other time you might miss. That has to be baked into the price. And so, yeah, like with every free agent, it all comes down to the cost and doesn't make sense. So is there a number where Kim could hit? And you're like, okay, like that. That's reasonable. Sure, there is. But you have to factor.

Starting point is 00:16:44 You can't pay a guy for six months of work, knowing that he's only going to, knowing that he's like, only going to play five. Yeah. So despite the shoulder surgery that he's undergone, he's actually been one of the hottest names here in the early going amongst teams. The Giants have apparently shown a lot of interest. The Blue Jays have shown interest. There's some other teams that are involved as well.

Starting point is 00:17:08 The Mariners haven't been mentioned for him. But obviously makes a lot of sense for the Ms because, again, he can play shortstop. He can play third base. He can play second base. So, yeah. And very well, yeah, I might add. Really, the question here is the bat, right? How much value are you actually going to be able to extract out of Hassan Kim's bat?

Starting point is 00:17:28 So do you think there's still more to tap into there, or do you think the guy we've seen is essentially who he is? I think he's about a league average bat, which is basically the guy we've seen. Might have a 20 home run season in him. I think his career is 17, might hit 30 doubles, but he hasn't broke 400 slug yet in his career. pretty good on base skills. It took, like I said, it took him a little while to kind of adjust to major league pitching. But once he did, he's been able to put up a fine average and, you know, above average on base skills. Good base runner, good speed.

Starting point is 00:18:02 So I think when you're just talking about offense, you take defense out of it. I think he is, when you consider it the total package, he is a totally fine everyday bat. It's just he's just league average, though. Like, you can't sign this guy expecting him to go 2030, right? you can't sign this guy expecting him to hit 280, 350, 450. Like, that's not going to happen. He's not going to slug enough to do that. So, you know, you have to be, but if you're just looking for a middle infield, like, profile,

Starting point is 00:18:31 like the bat absolutely plays at shortstop. It absolutely plays at second. And then when you go back and you do factor in the defense, he's a very good player because the defense does matter, base running does matter. And being even an average bat in 2025 at one of these premier, defensive positions does carry a lot of value. So I don't think that there's like this huge step for him to take.

Starting point is 00:18:55 But, you know, he might, he might just kind of, you know, have a year where he hits 20 home runs randomly. Because he's already hit 17. So going from 17 to 20, it's not a huge jump. So, yeah, you know, I just, I don't think he hits the ball hard enough to expect the power to just kind of finally surge at 29, 30 years old.

Starting point is 00:19:15 But yeah, he's, I think he's an average. bad at least and that's fine when you factor in the defense and the base running and all the other stuff yeah i i don't really know how to feel about has sunk because again the uncertainty around when he's going to be able to play this is going to be a significant investment this might be the most expensive player the merrers are able to go out and get and if the most expensive player you're going to be able to go out and get winds up not being ready for opening day that's a non-starter for me yeah because then it Because also at that point, we're talking about him playing catch up over the course of the regular season.

Starting point is 00:19:52 So he actually going to be able to get some offseason work in. You know, Boris said that he'll start hitting in January and he should be ready by April. But that's what Boris is going to say, right? It's the same conversation that we just had about Jorge Polanco and his injury in that report that came from Jeff Passen that was clearly, you know, fed to him from Polanco's agent. Right. And it's like, all right, that's an optimistic outlook. But what's the realistic outlook? look here. And so, yeah, knowing that there is a risk that he's not going to be ready for

Starting point is 00:20:23 major league games until May, that scares me, considering what the Mariners financial limitations unfortunately are and how big of an investment that is going to be relative to what, you know, they're able to spend. I think he's probably going to get about 12 million a year. Yeah, 12 to 15. range and at that price I think I'm probably out unless it's some kind of structure where like year one he only makes six and then like 12 and then 18 or something like

Starting point is 00:20:58 that maybe but I don't think I'm giving Kim more than three or four years. Ideally I think you'd give him one in like 10 and the 10 is because he's going to miss a month so it's not 12 so yeah but you know if they

Starting point is 00:21:14 if they sign Hassan Kim I'd be I think that's a nice move. It's probably the biggest free agent contract they're going to give out this winter. So pretty much eliminates everybody else. But they can still go make other moves around Kim and the trade market. That makes sense. So I'm fine with them signing Kim. I just think you have to be careful with the dollar figure.

Starting point is 00:21:32 He's he's a nice player. But it's glove driven. And, you know, as we know, defense is not as valuable as offense. It's still valuable. It's still quite valuable. Well, it's especially valuable to the Marin is because they are a run prevention team. That's how they're going to win ball games. That's what they say.

Starting point is 00:21:52 Yeah. Do they always build the team to reflect that? No. Nope. They sure don't. But yeah, so we'll see what they want to do. But, you know, I think Kim right now is being linked to the Mariners solely as like, well, the Mariners say they need infield help.

Starting point is 00:22:06 Kim's one of the better infielders available. So there we go. But we haven't heard any direct links between them. I don't think they were all that interesting when he came over the first time. I don't remember a lot of people saying the. Mariners were going to be involved, but I never heard anybody say that the Mariners had reached out or they had done anything with Kim, you know, four or five years ago. So we'll see. Maybe things have changed, but overall, Kim is an interesting player. I just, I don't foresee him

Starting point is 00:22:36 signing with Seattle. Yeah. But it's definitely, it's definitely a guy that they're talking about. They are absolutely talking about, hostile. Well, they have to talk about everyone at second base, at third base. But Kim is one of the better options. at least that we can see that we know is available. For sure, for sure. All right. So let's switch gears here, talk about the coaching staff. We did get a little piece of coaching news the other day.

Starting point is 00:23:02 But according to Ryan DeVish, who went on the sea level podcast, hosted by our friend Ben Rennery, he said that he doesn't actually expect there to be too many changes on Dan Wilson's coaching staff this winter, which is really interesting and not really what. You and I were expecting Colby. So we'll get into that in just a moment. But first, a reminder of this episode of the Lockdown Marys podcast is brought to you by Game Time and Fandul. So I used to live in New Mexico.

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Starting point is 00:25:39 So once again, Ryan DeVish hopped on the sea level podcast by their friend Ben or Neri the other night. Be sure to check that out. I believe he's going to have Divish on a few times over the course of this winter. Ben's doing great. work over there as well, doing a lot of really interesting write-ups. He has a lot of other interesting interviews that he does, and I'm sure we'll continue to do over the course of the off season. So, but yeah, so Debis said that he actually doesn't expect that many changes on the

Starting point is 00:26:06 mayor's coaching staff. We did see Tommy Joseph leave for a job with the Orioles. That was the mayor's assistant hitting coach this past year. But yeah, DeVis said that the only guy he thinks might not return is Carson Vital. He also said that Edgar Martinez, he thinks he'll be there for home games, see about away games. So still seems like they're going to add a hitting coach, like a full-time heading coach, who's going to go on the road with the team. But, yeah, other than that, it doesn't seem like much is going to change, which is really interesting.

Starting point is 00:26:39 Basically, Dan Wilson inherited Scott Services staff and seems like he might be keeping most of them. Yeah. Don't really like it. Don't really get it. You know, like, do I have anything personal against, you know, Perry Hill or or Maniacta or anybody on that staff? No, not really. But yeah, typically when you have these major regime changes, you don't keep the old skeleton crew around, right? You go and you bring in guys that you trust and that you want to be on your staff.

Starting point is 00:27:11 And that kind of tells me that the Mariners don't really trust Dan Wilson to go out and build a staff. And maybe it's just he has limited contacts in the game or maybe it's just, you know, the Mariners kind of don't think the coaching staff was that big of a deal. And they fired Scott's service just to shake things up a little bit, which is,

Starting point is 00:27:33 you know, kind of messed up, but also part of the business. Maybe it says something about Scott. I don't know. Maybe, but. There's a lot of layers here, potentially.

Starting point is 00:27:45 Right. It's weird. Like, anyway, you want to peel back the layers, it's weird to bring in a new manager. A first, year manager by the first time ever manager firing your nine year you know second best manager in

Starting point is 00:27:58 franchise history like firing that guy bringing in a guy with no experience to do the job and then keeping the staff that the previous manager hired by him like essentially he picked all those guys like yeah so you you don't trust scott service to run the ball club but you trust his judgment in building out of coaching staff more than you trust the judgment of the guy you picked to hire the ball club or to run the ball club. I mean, you guys kind of see how we're like. And again, you gave Dan Wilson the keys right out of the gate. Yeah, you didn't call him an interim manager, right?

Starting point is 00:28:33 He is the guy. And so it just, it's all just so weird. It is objectively weird that Dan Wilson is the new manager. And yet he either is keeping essentially all of Scott Services coaching staff or he's being told you're keeping this coaching staff. either way, that's weird. So I don't know exactly what's going on here. So we'll wait and see for official word.

Starting point is 00:28:58 Right. I mean, because like, for example, right? Like the Mariners didn't have a bench coach last year. After they fired Bram Brown, they didn't have a bench coach. So are they just going to promote Manny Acta? Or maybe they go and they hire a bench coach. And obviously they're going to have to replace Joseph,

Starting point is 00:29:15 we think, we assume, because Edgar's not going to be the full-time hitting coach. He's going to be like, they'll probably give Edgar like an offensive coordinator title or director of hitting strategy or whatever, right? And if he's there for home games, great. You still need a guy to go out on the road, so you still kind of need an actual hitting coach. And apparently it's not going to be Tommy Joseph. So, yeah, I would suspect that they're going to add a couple new faces.

Starting point is 00:29:39 But typically a manager gets fired mid-season. The entire coaching staff gets wiped out. Maybe they keep one or two guys. And then the new manager builds his staff because he has to be able to trust these guys. He has to be able to work with these guys. So he has to have some say and who is on his coaching staff doesn't really hear. But again, this was not a normal hiring process. Nope.

Starting point is 00:30:05 This is not a normal situation. This is not a normal organization. Nope. It's not. So honestly, the unexpected thing is the expected thing. I guess like I mean I'm happy for now at least Pete Woodworth is sticking around sure yeah but it's it's it's weird like objectively speaking it's weird to fire a manager but then force that fired manager staff on your new hire who has zero experience managing like I just at what point do you trust Dan Wilson I mean are they trusting them enough I would I would assume like most of it, yeah, because it doesn't make sense. Or over those, how many weeks was it, sex?

Starting point is 00:30:51 But he was the manager. Yeah, he just bonded with Maniacta so well that maybe, maybe the entire staff, though, Perry Hill to be. Maybe. Yeah, okay. That just, but not enough with Tommy Joseph. Okay, sure. I don't think Dan's calling the shots here with his staff. And that's a problem to me.

Starting point is 00:31:12 Is it a big problem? No, not really. and, you know, like I said, the guys never managed before. So how wide is his net? I don't know. But it's just, it's weird. I mean, it's just at the end of the day, it's very weird to run back. When you said coaching is a problem because you fire the manager.

Starting point is 00:31:30 And then you just run it back with the same group, just a new manager. Either says a lot about Scott or something else is going on. Something weird. Yeah. Yeah. And I would be willing to bet that it's, it's less to do with something. really bad about Scott and more to do with something weird behind the scenes is going on here. But that's just a total guess on my part.

Starting point is 00:31:54 Like I said, it's not a huge deal. It's just weird. Like that I just don't know how it's it's a weird thing to do. All right. Well, that's going to do it for our show. Fanfiction Friday is back tomorrow. We'll have the tweet up so you can submit your marriage trade proposals under there. Thank you so much for joining us here on the lockdown on Marrace podcast.

Starting point is 00:32:15 Colby Pat node, I'm Tiding Azzalus. Be sure to give us a follow on Twitter at L0 underscore Merrers. You can follow me at Tiding Azales and Colby at C-Pat-E-1-1. We're also on Blue Sky. You can follow me at TDG and Colby at MLB Colby. Have yourself a beautiful baseball day and we'll see you next time. Peace.

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