Locked On Mariners - Daily Podcast On the Seattle Mariners - Jazz Chisholm or Lars Nootbaar: Which Player Should the Mariners Trade For?

Episode Date: October 17, 2023

Colby and Ty continue their Report Card series with a look at J.P. Crawford following his career year in 2023, then discuss whether the Mariners should look into trading for Lars Nootbaar or Jazz Chisholm.Follow the show on Twitter: @LO_Mariners | @danegnzlz | @CPat11Giveaway terms and conditions!Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Jase MedicalSave more than $360 by getting these lifesaving antibiotics with Jase Medical plus an additional $20 off by using code LOCKEDON at checkout on jasemedical.com.  eBay MotorsKeep your ride-or-die alive at ebay.com/motors. eBay Guaranteed Fit only available to US customers. Eligible items only. Exclusions apply.GametimeDownload the Gametime app, create an account, and use code LOCKEDONMLB for $20 off your first purchase.FanDuelMake Every Moment More.Make Every Moment More. Right now, NEW customers can bet FIVE DOLLARS and get TWO HUNDRED in BONUS BETS - GUARANTEED. Visit FanDuel.com/LOCKEDON to get started.SleeperDownload the Sleeper app and use promo code LOCKEDON and you'll get up to a $100 match on your first deposit. Terms and conditions apply. See Sleeper’s Terms of Use for details. Currently operational in over 30 states. Check out Sleeper today!FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Today we'll be handing out our report card to none other than J.P. Crawford. Yeah, I wonder what grade we're going to give him. Plus, would you rather shoot for upside or the safe play in a Bryce Miller or Brian Wu trade? We'll discuss that and more coming up here on the Lockdown Mariners podcast. Colby hit it. You are Locked on Mariners. Your daily Seattle Mariners podcast. Part of the Locked on podcast network.

Your team every day. Ahoy, sailors. It is Tuesday, October 17th, 2023. This is Tadang Azas and Colby Patnode for the Lockdown Air and his podcast. Thank you so much for making us your first listen. Subscribe, like, and turn on alerts if you're watching on YouTube, or subscribe and leave a five-star review on your preferred podcast platform if you like what you hear. And if you're part of the crew and rock with us every single day,

let us know in the comments below. And if you want to hear from us even more, please consider sending up for our Patreon. You can now get a free seven-day trial to check out the show. The link, as well as our social accounts, is in the description of this episode. on the show today we continue handing out grades to the 2023 mariners with j p crawford we'll also talk about potential returns in a bryce miller or brian woo trade would you rather take a big swing on upside go the safe route in one of those deals talk about that a little later on in this show but colby we got to start with j p crawford continuing our report card series here crawford coming off of a career year by far 266 38438 that was his triple slash line this past season. 134 WRC plus.

It was worth 4.9 F war. just struck out 19.6% of the time. He did walk 14.7% of the time, which is also a career high for him. He hit 19 bombs, which is a by far a career high for him. He had 65 runs driven

in as well, which is also a career high for him. So career highs across the board, essentially for J.P. Crawford. It was a career year by definition for the Mariners captain. So it seems pretty straightforward, but Colby, what great

are you given Mr. Crawford? Tough, tough, I'm going to go with an A plus and he gets the only A plus on the entire team. You know, led the American League in walks, you know, the 13th highest

WRC plus in all of baseball amongst qualified hitters, you know, 4.9 wins, 19 homers, would have been five, five war and 20 homers, if not for a brief stint on the IL. He played his normal, solid average defense, always seemed to come through with the bases loaded, unlike a lot of his other teammates. He was just everything. You know, he was a vocal leader. He was a, a, kind of the epitome of what, you know, the Mariners claim they want to be. And he's the guy who went away for the winter. He worked on himself.

He made changes both physically and mechanically. And he came back and he was probably the second best shortstop in the American League. And only a career year from Kyle Sear is going to prevent him from. Corey. Sorry, Corey, yes, is going to prevent him from winning a silver slugger at the position. and it's not something we ever thought we would say about J.P. Crawford. So when you kind of take everything into account, the solid defense, the career year at the plate, the walks, the, you know, at bats with the bases loaded, the homers, the leadership qualities,

he was everything you could possibly hope for and more, kind of in his first attempt at being the, the unquestioned leader of the Mariners' offensive group. you know, Gino certainly is leadership qualities, and we know Tom Murphy has leadership qualities. And there's never just one guy per se, but when you really look at the Mariners over the last five years, it was Kyle Seeger for a while who was that guy. Then it was Mitch Hanager, who was that guy.

And this year it was kind of JP's turn to kind of step up and be the guy in that regard. And he did, you know, by all accounts, he's loved by everybody in the clubhouse. He's a fan favorite. it. Everybody seems to acknowledge that he is the captain of this ball club, and they should probably just go ahead and make that official. So, yeah, you know, he's, he's everything you want, you know, a player to be for the Seattle Mariners. He cares about the fans. He cares about the community. He's kind of ingratiated himself into a community that he didn't have any ties to previously. It's not like he's from this area. He has no reason to.

connect to this area as deeply as he has. And it just feels like he's exactly what you want. He's, you know, the epitome of development because remember the Phillies gave up on this guy. They traded him for, you know, pretty good package, but they essentially gave up on him. They decided they'd rather have Gene Seguera as their shortstop than J.P. Crawford. And there were some tough moments in J.P.'s mariner's career early. And we just kind of looked at him and said, he's probably an average bat and an average

glove and that's probably who he is at 28 years old and he came out this year and he proved everybody wrong. I don't know if it's fair to expect this from JP going forward. There's a pretty good chance this was his career year, but I don't think that there's really any reason to suspect that he's just going to go back and be kind of a fringe league average bat like he was for most of his career. I don't know if he's got a 20 home run season in him. I think he's probably going to tap out now somewhere between 12 and 15 for the next few years. But who cares? If he's doing more damage, if he's sitting more line drives, he's kind of forced his way into

being a part of this core group of guys instead of ancillary player. He was kind of a role player before this year. Now his 30% increase in offense as well as what he means to that clubhouse. He's definitely part of your core. He's right there with Julio. He's there with Cal. you know, George and et cetera. Like he is a part of this core and

he's earned that that right. And he is, again, by all accounts, he's the captain of your baseball club. So hard to give JP anything less than an A plus without kind of being laughed at. Yeah. After the year he just put out there. Yeah, A plus, A plus, plus, plus, plus plus plus. He has established himself fully as a part of the core, like you said.

He has established himself as one of the five to seven best short stops in the entire game. And if you ask Jerry DePoto, if he asked Scott's service, if he asked Justin Hollander, if he asked Andy McKay, anyone on the Mariners coaching staff, what does the ideal Mariner look like for that culture? It's J.P. Crawford. It's absolutely unequivocally J.P. Crawford. And not only does he embody that to a T, he posts. He's posting now. He's, I mean, he was an elite bat this year. He was tied 13th in Major League Baseball amongst all qualified hitters in WRC Plus. It's tied with Cody Bellinger.

We all know how good Cody Bellinger was this year. Like JP was very, very, very good. Not just for his standards or by his standards or relative to what he's done for the rest of his career, which I mean is like in a complete, like in a complete other area code from where he was for the rest of his career.

Just relative to the rest of Major League Baseball, the upper echelon of Major League Baseball, of Major League Baseball players. He was that good. And I mean, you know, some of it is due to what he was able to accomplish

over at Drive Line, obviously. They were able to add some bat speed and obviously that was a great foundation to build from in general with JP with his elite plate discipline. And obviously that carried over to this year and he posted a career high and walk rate.

And on top of that was able to add a significant amount of power. Now, you know, back when JP was considered to be the best prospect in baseball or one of the five best prospects in baseball when he was still in the Phillies organization,

there was an assumption that power would be a part of his game to a certain extent, that he would be, you know, 12 to 20 home runs. And we got that this year. And that's, you know, partly because of the added bat speed. He's now able to do damage on pitches inside of the zone.

He's not just kind of a, you know, an on-base merchant, which, I mean, he's still elite in that respect. But now that's not the only tool. he has offensively. And while, yeah, maybe this is the absolute ceiling for him,

maybe a 134 WRC plus is something that he won't even sniff again. Maybe he, you know, levels out at maybe, you know, 115 to 120 for the rest of his career on a per year basis. But this is a different J.P. Crawford. You know, I'm sure there's going to be a lot of talk about regression. We're going to have conversations about regression for him in 2024 and what that kind of looks like, but that to me is not going to be, you know, back to what he was in 2021 and 2022 because he's made actual mechanical changes. He didn't just fluke his way into this level

of production. He's actually made changes that he's going to carry over into 2024 and build upon heading into 2024 and in future years. So we have to analyze JP from that perspective, not from what he was before this year, just what has he done? since then and what does regression look from that aspect? With that in mind. So yeah, again, sensational season for JP. And the defense as well,

I know the analytics say otherwise, but he is at least an average defender, at least an average defender. I mean, there's so many big plays that he made this year. When you pair that with his leadership qualities as well, I mean, he's one of the most valuable players in Major League Baseball.

somewhat for reasons that just can't be quantified. All right, we're going to be talking about a poll that Colby has been running on the Lockdown Mariners Twitter, and we're going to be announcing a new giveaway in just a moment. But first, a reminder of this episode of the Lockdown Marries podcast is brought to you by Bird Dogs. There is nothing in this world that's more comfortable than a pair of shorts from Bird Dogs.

Coming in a variety of colors with breathable, stretchy, fabric, and built-in underwear, bird dog shorts are perfect for going to the movies, hiking your favorite trail, just chilling on the couch watching football. In fact, they're perfect for recording a podcast then. Trust me, I would know. And not only do they have a wide selection of shorts, but they also have joggers, sweatpants, polos, and more.

It's time to look good, feel good, and play good. Go to birddogs.com slash locked on MLB or enter the promo code Locked On MLB for a free Bird Dogs water bottle with your order. You won't want to take your bird dogs off, we promise you. And you're listening to the Lockdowns. I'm air in his podcast. Thank you again for making us your first listen. So Colby, you're giving away some cards. Cards are you given away?

Yeah. So it's been a while, you know, since I've given away more things for my personal collection, something Ty has never done. But yeah, we're giving away some cards. I've given, I've taken the money out of my pockets to deliver to our listeners. And how do you think I acquired these cards, Ty? Yeah, that's what I thought. Just sit down and be quiet. No. So amongst the cards were given away, there are four cards total this time around. It will be a tiered giveaway like we've done in the past.

I will explain all this in a second. But, you know, quick look at the cards. We have a Brian Wu autograph card. We have this Matt Brash autograph card. Nice. We have this Bryce Miller autograph card. Bryce with a very clean signature, by the way. And then maybe the grand prize, I mean,

depending on how you feel about each of these players, but this is a autographed Harry Ford card. Sir Harry. Yes, we have Harry Ford, Bryce Miller, Matt Brash, and Brian Wu that we are giving away. And Ty will tell you how you can enter and, you know, kind of the rules of the whole giveaway here.

All right. So the giveaway is running between now, starting now until, October 30th. You have until essentially midnight on October 30th to enter. All you have to do to enter is subscribe to the YouTube channel or Lockdown Marries YouTube channel. If you're just listening on a podcast platform, add on over to YouTube.com, type in Lockdown Mariners, hit the subscribe button.

And then all you have to do from that point forward is comment on one of our videos that is posted between now and October 30th. You can post or you can comment once every video that will give you multiple entries into the giveaway. And then we're just going to randomly pick a couple of videos. and randomly pick some comments from, from those videos for the winners. We'll be doing that on like a random wheel

or random name generator or something. We always use something like that. So the terms and conditions, full terms and conditions are down in the description of this episode, but to quickly just go over what our goal is, ultimately with this giveaway, like Colby said, this is going to be a tiered giveaway.

So we have some subscriber goals so that we want to reach. And once we reach that goal, goal, we're going to give away that card. And if we don't reach that goal by October 30th, we're not giving away that card. So at 9,750 subscribers, I think we're at 9,320 last time I checked. So at 9,750 subscribers, we're going to be given away the Matt Brash card. At 10,000 subscribers, we're going to be given away the Bryce Miller card. At 10,250 subscribers, we'll be given away the Brian Wu card. And at 10,500 subscribers will be given away the Harry Harry Ford card. So again, full terms and conditions will be in the description. All you have to do is

click the link to check out all that good stuff. All right. So, Colby, over on the Locked-on Mariners Twitter account over the last week or so, you've been running a few polls with some hypothetical trades, not necessarily trades that you personally would do just to just gauge the fan base in a way and see like, you know, how they value Logan Gilbert or how they, value X player that might be on another team that a lot of people are talking about as a potential trade candidate. But this time around, the latest poll that you posted is just posing a couple of potential trade targets against one another.

That's Jazz Chisholm of the Miami Marlins and Lars Neupar of the St. Louis Cardinals, who we've talked a lot about over the last few months with those rumors that just never died about the Cardinals and the Mariners. It seems like everyone wants Lars Newt Bar and the Mariners community on the Mariners. and to no surprise he is winning that poll right now last time I checked I think it was like 52% to 48%, 53% to 47% somewhere in there so it's pretty close and the gap has closed over the last 12 or so hours

but yeah your general reaction to that poll to the response to that poll and then just your overall thoughts on Jazz versus Lars Newpar Sure you know kind of a common theme lately is people sure only like to leave comments if they're negative about the player or you know, I mean, like, I don't know what you're talking about. I am, I am Mr. Sunshine, but it's, it's interesting, you know, that a large chunk of the comments

that I've read on this particular poll, which again, is pretty close. I think it's 54-46 right now. So, you know, it's pretty close with over almost. 1,200 votes. That's pretty close. But the overwhelming number of comments are that neither of these guys are any good. I don't want either of them, which is a lie. To say that Lars Nupar isn't good and can't help you is a lie.

To say that jazz chisholm isn't good and can't help you, that's a lie. So either you're lying or you're stupid. I mean, you could pick. I'm not going to tell you what you are, but you're either a liar or you're stupid. Sure. Those are your options. So I think I think a lot of that I think a lot of that like stems from this idea that like oh well like those guys aren't stars so they can't help the Mariners. And that's that's dumb.

That's stupid to sit here and be like, I only want Shohei Otani. If I don't get Shohei Otani then like it's not even worth doing anything. Okay, fine. You can think that way. But then you don't get to complain about any move Jerry makes ever again, ever. Because you've already said that if he doesn't do exactly what you want, you're not going to like what. he does. So don't be an idiot. Don't sit here like oh

Lars Newpar's not even that good. I don't want him because he can't because he only dumb idiot. He only helps me. Someone should start a counter down in the in the comments. He only helps me win two extra games. Hey, how many games did the mayor's missed the playoffs by this year? Oh yeah. Imagine that. Stop it. Stop

it. Perfection is the enemy of good. A progress. You have to make progress with your roster. You're never going to have a perfect roster. It's not going to happen. You have to make, you have to make your roster better and you do that by acquiring good players. Lars Nupar, Jazz Chisholm, they're both good players. All right. Sure. Anybody saying otherwise is dumb. Like, just call it what it is. Are they perfect players?

Oh, do they all, do they each have their warts? Yeah, they do. And they've been expressed. Jazz Chisholm is a guy who can't really stay healthy, or at least he hasn't yet. He also has some strikeout issues, which we know Mariners fans are petrified of. a little too much, I would, I would say. Yeah. And then you look at Lars Neupar and like, he's fine. He's a good player. But he's not really an all star.

Like there's very little upside there. He kind of is what he is. Yeah. You know, he's just just a solid, good everyday player. There, it's, it's not like adding Lars Neupar all of a sudden makes you, you know, the best lineup in baseball. Neither of these guys do. Unless, you know, jazz chisholm hits.

And he plays 150 games for the first time of his career. then maybe because there is upside there. So I do think it's interesting that, you know, obviously the negativity, which isn't that surprising. But it's interesting that at least just based on this, right, this one poll, the Mariners or Mariners appear to value the, let's just say like the safe three-win guy versus the guy who could be a six, seven win player. And, you know, keep in mind, the poll did not specify that we would be trading Bryce Miller or Brian Wu.

It was just, which would you rather have in a vacuum? And so new bar one. And again, obviously things could change. And we said, okay, you're adding Lordus Gurriel and Labor Tories or whatever, right? Now which one do you want to finish off the offseason? Then it's different. It might be different because you say, well, I've got a couple of steady bats that I trust. now I'll take the shot on jazz or if it's you know I took a couple risk here I want some some safety

I think it's large so I do think that you know the the whole safety versus upside debate is a good one it's one worth having and it is one that is tough to quantify in a vacuum of just like hey do you want player A or player B but overall I do think it's interesting that Mariner fans are for the most part you know choosing to play things relatively safe this offseason and And I don't think that that's necessarily the way to go. Now, I'm not saying that jazz is the guy that you go out and you prioritize. I don't even know if he's going to be available. But those are just two guys that honestly kind of perfectly epitomize upside versus safety.

They both have three years of club control left. Like, you know, and by the way, Ty, we did get one person who did mention that. Lars and Otani are tight. So they'd rather have Lars Newport. Right, right. Totally expected that, yeah. Sure, sure. Yeah.

But yeah, I do think it's an interesting comparison. I do think that it's an interesting debate. I just want to make sure that we're not sitting here going like, oh, the Baroner signed Lordus Gurriel, but he's not Otani. So who cares? Like let's not be that fan. Right. It's like in the Jimboan article today talking about Soto, he's like, you know,

if they don't get Soto and they don't sign Bellinger and Otani, how could they possibly build a roster that's competitive, you know, for the postseason in a world series? It's like there are a lot of ways. And just finish a game back of Texas and Houston who are playing. There are a lot of ways to still do that. That's why I've said, like,

you don't necessarily need to add another guy to your core this offseason to still have a great offseason to build a roster that is capable of winning a world series. Because your core, as it currently stands, is very, very good. It's one of the best young cores in Major League Baseball. So anyway, we're, yeah, you can. Like, I'm not saying no to show Hey, Otney. I'm not saying no to show hey O'Tani. But again, like if you're adding another core player, it's this offseason it's probably Otani or it's probably Bellinger.

It's probably Soto. And as far as Soto goes, like, do you even consider him part of the core? Because he's only going to be here for a year. So I don't think I would. Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah. So we're going to talk more about jazz and Newt and some other options. And a Bryce Miller or Brian Wu deal. Because like, let's face it, right? Like even though they didn't specify in the poll that it would be for

Miller or Wu, that's probably the only way that you're getting Jess Chisholm or Lars Nupar, at least that I can think of. So we're going to go over that in just a moment, but first of a reminder, this episode of the Lockdown Marys podcast is brought to you by Fandul. October baseball is back, folks, and you can make your postseason debut with Fandul, America's number one sportsbook. Join Fandul today, and you'll get started with $200 in bonus bets, guaranteed when you place your first $5 bet.

Just visit Fandual.com slash Lockdown. that's L-C-K-D-O-N to create your new account. And you can get on the action from the first pitch until the final out. Bet on everything from strikeouts to home runs to who will win the game. And if you don't want to wait the whole game to get a win, predict what will happen in the next that bat with quick bets. So head on over to fanduel.com slash locked on right now. Step up to the plate this postseason with $200 in bonus bets guaranteed.

Make every moment more with Fandul official sports betting partner of Major League Baseball. And you're listening to the Lockhell. on Mariner's podcast. Thank you again for making us your first listen. So we're talking about jazz Chisholm and Lars Newbar, a couple of, well, I would say that Lars has been a popular trade, potential trade target amongst Mariner's fans. Jazz Chisholm, not really, maybe more so a couple of years ago, but not as of late. But that's someone that Colby brought up as an exercise in safe plays against upside, which it's, weird to consider Lars Neupar a safe play because, I mean,

he's only played 117 games like as a career high in a season, which is good. Like, don't get me wrong, but it's not like, it's not 140. It's not 150, whatever.

He's done that once. He played 108 games the year before. And then he played 58 the year before that. And he's been, he's been fine. He's been good. Like he was a 2.6 F4 player in 2022. He was a 3.2 F4 player in 2023.

and a lot of that was really the second half that he went on. He had a really, really good second half. Lars ended up slashing 261, 367, 418 this past season with 14 home runs, 46 RBI, 11 steals. So, I mean, like, yeah, if he ends up playing like, you know, 140, 150 games, maybe he's like a four, four and a half one player. He's a fringe all-star right now. I don't necessarily think that there's a lot more to tap into there. It's just, I think the numbers just overall would look better if he played more games.

That's really it. But I think that like, essentially like the pace that he's on is, is pretty much who he, who he is. As for jazz Chisholm, I mean, he's a, he's a star in theory and only in theory. Like he has the makings of it. He has, you know, one of the best personalities in baseball. He can't hit for a ton of home runs and he can steal some bags and play, you know, highlight Lightworthy defense. Problem is he just hasn't been able to stay healthy.

He's played over 100 games once in his career. That was back in 2021. He played 124 games. Ever since then, though, he played 60 in 2022, and he played 97 and 2023. This year, though, in just 97 games, he did hit 19 bombs. He did steal 22 bags.

The problem, though, is that he's running a career strikeout rate of 29.2%. So when we're talking about, the potential for a Bryce Miller, Brian Wu trade. Like if you're trading one of those guys, I would say this. Like I understand Chisholm's strikeout issues.

I understand his rough splits against the lefties. And I understand that there might be some clubhouse concerns on that front. Whatever. I don't know a ton about that. I'm just acknowledging that just for the sake of it. But if you hit on him, if he actually is able to stay healthy, And he reaches the ceiling that I think he has.

To me, he is by far the best player that you could feasibly get. Like that version of Jazz Chisholm is by far the most, the best player you could feasibly get for Miller or Wu. Whereas like with Newt Bar, you're getting a good player. You're getting a guy that definitely helps you. You're getting like a fringe all-star caliber player there in Newport. And maybe he makes a couple of all-star teams in the future. But it's, that's nowhere close to what the up.

side of Chisholm is. Chisholm to me like if everything goes well, he's like an MVP candidate potentially. Like he's a six win guy. Like if everything, everything goes right. And again, that's that's been getting on a lot. But again, if you're looking for the best return from a Miller trade and maybe getting a guy that maybe typically wouldn't if he had more established time in the big leagues, I think it's Chisholm. But yeah, what do you think, Colby? Yeah, you know, it was interesting. I send you like all the polls after I post them and you very condescendingly give me your answer. And I believe on this one you said as I always, or like in a heartbeat or somewhere like like.

I said absolutely. Yeah. I said absolutely. Yeah. Which is inter-it. And by the way, I'm specifying when I said Miller for for jazz, not this particular poll question,

but very specifically, Bryce Miller for jazz chisholm. Yeah. He said absolutely. I'm a little more on the fence about this. I do like jazz. They both have three years of club control left, so that's not really a, you know, factor in this.

And I do think that fans are overvaluing, like, avoiding strikeouts. I know, I get it, right? The Mariners want to avoid strikeouts. But have you replaced Jazz Chisholm with Teoska Hernandez? I mean, if his career number, if he just strikes out 29% of the time, you actually did improve your strikeout problem. But that's more about a Teosker. That's more a Teosker problem than jazz being.

good at that particular thing. So yeah, you know, you kind of look at both these guys. They both fill a hole. Chisholm is either your second baseman or he's, you know, outfielder who can play centerfield and Newt Bar is an outfielder who could also play centerfield. So specifically. And he also helps you get Otani, Colby.

Because that's definitely a thing. Yeah. So, yeah, they're both left-handed hitters. That doesn't really help. They're both, I think, you know, pretty high floor. if they both play 120 games, I think they're each worth at least three wins. So, yeah, I think I'd probably rather swing for the upside.

And I do think that there's this idea that Miller should get you like an established star. And it's like, okay, but who? Who's an established star out there on a team that would want Bryce Miller? And I don't think that star can be a guy who's just a one-year-old. think Juan Soto is the answer here. That's a one-year fix. He's not signing with you. He's not signing with you. No. No. So who's that guy? I don't know if Miller is like I don't, I wouldn't trade Miller for either of these guys straight up. I wouldn't be upset if they did. Like I understand the process, but I just wouldn't do it. So I don't know, man. This is tough. And I do also, you know, understand the people who are like, well, just don't trade any of them and just go get a different guy. And it's go get a different bad. And I understand that. But, but. But again, you look at the free agent class this year, not great.

And when you go and you look at the teams, like, think of the teams right now that you know are going to sell pieces this winter. You know they're not trying to win in 2024. There's not a lot of those teams. It's a few. Yeah. And most of them have already sold all their interesting pieces. Yeah, that's a very finite amount. Yeah, what do the Oakland A's have that are really going to jazz you up if you trade Bryce Miller and Brian Gives.

And jazz you up, huh? Yeah. There you go. Like nothing. You're not excited if they trade Bryce Miller for Brent Rooker. You're probably telling Jerry to, you know, find a new job if you did that. So, and like, who are the other teams? Detroit's on the upswing.

Kansas City's on the upswing. Yep. You know. Washington's on the upswing. Yeah. Like, who are the teams that are like, you know, we're not going to be good. I mean, New York's never going to sell. And there's not really anything in New York anyways that you're excited to trade for.

I mean, you're not getting here and judge. So you're not giving up six years of Miller for Glaver Torres. Who are the teams? Who are the bad, terrible teams that are entering this year? Right. Knowing they don't send a chance of 2024. There's like two or three and none of them really have much to offer you. Well, and that's the thing too is.

You're going to have to trade with other contenders. Yeah. And the thing too here is, you know, because of how bad the free agent market is, there's going to be a premium that's naturally placed on on hitters that are available via trade. So, you know, you got to be smart about, like, if you are going to trade Bryce Miller, Brian Wu this off season, you've got to be smart about what you're actually trading them for. Are you actually getting what you feel is proper value for those guys? Because, again, you have something that a lot of teams don't have.

And that's one of the hottest, if not the hottest commodity in all of baseball, young, controllable, established major league pitching. And you're willing to trade it. So, yeah. Like to me, Lars Neupar would be a fine return, but an under well-made return for Bryce Miller, especially if you're not getting anything else along with Lars. I mean, it's scary. It's definitely scary because like it could really, really work out.

Like you could get one of the best bats in Major League Baseball for multiple years for Bryce Miller. Or jazz and Julio in the same lineup. That would be amazing. Like the vibes would be unreal. on that team you have a legitimate shot to have two guys who are eight win players if they match if they reach their ceilings like yeah but on the flip side of that you could get a guy that doesn't play more than a hundred games for you per season that maybe if these you know rumors about him and the clubhouse are true causes some disruption there you know it's not a great fit and he strikes out a lot he doesn't see the z like he doesn't execute your offensive philosophy Right. But yeah, it's it's tough to say, man. There are a lot of avenues you can go, but it does feel like you're going to have to trade with another team that's competing, you know, for or it thinks that they can win the World Series next year because I honestly, I think that probably 20 to 25 teams in baseball look at next year and say, we can get into the wild card. Like we can get into the playoffs next year. And the other five teams or so that really aren't thinking that way, they don't have a lot. to offer. Like, even the White Sox have been very hesitant, apparently, to discuss Dylan Cs and Luis

Robert. And at that point, like, okay, I'm supposed to get excited about Yohan Moncada. No. Like, so it's just one of those things, man. Like, it's going to be a really interesting market. We might see more three team trades than we've ever seen. We'll definitely see more teams trading with other contenders. There's just, it's, it used to be about half the league was like, yeah, we're sellers, you know.

that's not the case anymore you add the extra wild card uh you see teams you know constantly get in with you know 83 84 wins and here's the thing the difference between a 75 win team and an 84 win team not that big of a difference uh so teams are are less apt to to sell you know i mean the diamondbacks are literally competing for a trip to the world series after winning 84 games in the world and the regular season like right so you know and teams are teams are seeing that right teams are saying that and that's you know right and that's the difference between you know 84 and 75 wins is not typically 35 million dollars in in free agent costs it's our young guys hit or have you know this this veteran uh happens to you know pop this year like yeah that's the difference and

that's why teams are less likely to trade those guys because if it doesn't cost you any extra money and from an ownership perspective it doesn't cost you any more money and you still have good odds of making the playoffs where you will make more money why not just hold on to guys and you know see what happens yeah so we're already running over time but i know i said we would talk about some other options so i'll just quickly go over that um jazz chism isn't the only upside play you could go for here with with miller you could trade him to baltimore for you know colton cowser past secure stad or you know one of those guys right like you're not going to get jackson holiday but like they have they obviously have quite a few young guys there that would be very

interesting that have relatively high ceilings uh and maybe you get two of those guys right depending on what the deal looks like maybe it's like colton cowzer and joey ortees i'm like that you know so that's another one to keep an eye on there um you know obviously the rays are going to have interest the guardians will have interest uh i just don't really know if there's any deals there that that makes sense for for both teams like for what the mariners are going to want like because i i think if if the mariners are trading bryce millers to the raise they're probably asking for randy a rose right now plus yeah yeah and i don't think the rays are going to do that but no you know i've thrown lobes over into the mix maybe but like yeah it's yeah you might have to

trade you know miller for the brys miller equivalent you might be able to trade miller for an established guy for two years like 29 other teams of baseball are going to want brys Miller and Riemoo. So it's not going to be a lack of the market. That is the reason they're here. It's going to be the lack of, you know, good offers, essentially. So we'll see what the Mariners decided to do. But yeah, there's a lot of routes they could go.

They could go take the big swing on a guy like jazz. They can go get a couple of like solid but somewhat improving guys from Baltimore. Maybe it's just something as simple as Bryce Miller for Matt McLean and Cincinnati. And, you know, they just do us one for one swap. something like that. So we'll see what they do. But yeah, we're going to be talking about trading, you know, one of these starters, probably all winter until they do it.

So we'll have plenty of time to name other names. But yeah, that's just the general ideas. Would you trade, would you rather trade Bryce Miller for, or Brian Wu for, for, you know, an upside play where the ceiling is most valuable player? Or would you rather get a guy who's got a much higher floor, but a much lower ceiling as, as the headlock? liner essentially of any a deal. So let us know. Yeah, let us know in the comments below what you think about all this.

What you would do this soft season with regards to Miller and Wu and what kind of returns you would like to see on those guys if they were traded. All right, that's going to do it for our show. Thank you so much for joining us here on the locked on Marrars podcast. For Colby Pat node, I'm Tadangazales. Be sure to give us a follow on Twitter at LO underscore Mariners. You can follow me at Dan G-G-N-ZL-Z and Colby at C-Pat 11. That's C-Pat-1.

You can also find all that stuff in the description of this episode. And again, be sure to enter our card giveaway. Check out the terms and conditions down in the description below. Thank you again for making us your first list. Have yourself a beautiful baseball day and we'll see you next time. Peace.