Locked On Mariners - Daily Podcast On the Seattle Mariners - Mailbag: Do the Mariners Already Have an Erik Swanson Replacement?

Episode Date: November 28, 2022

On today's episode, it's time for another Mailbag Monday. We answer eight Mariners questions from our listeners! Topics range from bullpen targets, whether the roster has back-end rotation help, Jarred Kelenic, and so much more.Be sure to follow or subscribe to Locked On Mariners wherever you prefer your podcasts! For questions and other inquiries, email: [e-mail] the show on Twitter: @LO_Mariners | @danegnzlz | @CPat11For more of Ty and Colby, check out their Patreon: patreon.com/controlthezone/SimpliSafeWith Fast Protect™️ Technology, exclusively from SimpliSafe, 24/7 monitoring agents capture evidence to accurately verify a threat for faster police response. There’s No Safe Like SimpliSafe. Visit SimpliSafe.com/LockedOnMLB to learn more.BetOnlineBetOnline.net has you covered this season with more props, odds and lines than ever before. BetOnline – Where The Game Starts! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's Mailback Monday here on the Locked on Mariners podcast. Let's answer your questions. Colby, hit it. You are Locked on Mariners. Your daily Seattle Mariners podcast. Part of the Locked on podcast network, your team every day. It is Monday, November 28th, 2022. This is Tadang Gonzalez and Colby Patnaud for the Lockdown Mariners podcast.

Thank you so much for making us your first listen. Subscribe, like, and turn on alerts if you're watching on YouTube, or subscribe and leave a five-star review on your preferred podcast platform. if you like what you hear. And if you want to hear from us even more, please consider signing up for our Patreon. The link as well as our social accounts is in the description below. It is Mailbag Monday. We got some questions from our Twitter followers that we'll be answering on today's show. But before we get into that, Colby, we are a little over a week away from our giveaway ending. So remind folks what we got going on. Yeah, we're giving away some free baseball cards. Subscribe if you want one.

Boom. Pretty much sum it up. There you go. Yeah, yeah, pretty much. much. We are what, like 30 or so subscribers away from having to give away our signed Cal Raleigh card? Your signed Cal Raleigh card? Our Cal Raleigh card. Your, my Cal Raleigh card. And then we're about 250 away on Twitter from giving up my Jared Keldman card. So I'm going to assume those are the only milestones we hit because unless we go crazy and add like a thousand in the next week, I get to keep my Mike camera card. So that's good. But yeah, we We have a Cal Raleigh autograph card and a Jared Kellnick card autograph card that are still attainable. And then we're already given away a Taylor Dullard and a Taylor Tramel.

And I know you guys want to steal the smug SOB's cards. Like I know you do. Just look at him. Just look at how smuggy is. Look at them. Look at them. I'm affable. Okay.

Steal his cards for me. For me. Do it for me. I know you guys like me more than him. So do it for me. By the way, bonus. if we get to 5,000 by the end

or by the time we record tomorrow's episode, I will throw in a Daniel Vogelback autograph card to one of the lucky giveaway people. So somebody will win two cards. Yeah. Oh. Yeah.

I know people are really stoked about that. I mean, how could you not be, though? It's Cornelius, after all. A signed Cornelius card? Look at this face. Look at him. Look at that. All star. All star. Don't you disrespect Daniel Vogelback? I wouldn't dare to do so on the show.

We can read your tone. Colton's going to be mad at me. Let's get into these questions. Yeah, that's true. All right, let's get into these questions. Tuffy Ghost Wish Amirer. That's the name of this Twitter account. Raise your standards, buddy.

That's a really interesting brand to take there. But you know what? Do you live your life? All that Tuffy Ghost Wish of Myrer asks who are the Mariners likely to extend next? Which player would you prefer they extend next? I'd say Cal is the player I would prefer they lock up next I think the simple answer really Colby is no one I don't think they're extending anyone but if I had to a pick It would probably be Cal Raleigh as well or George Kirby But Cal the reason why I say that it's probably going to be no one is because

starting pitchers are hard to lock down because of all the money that could be waiting for them on the open market down the road and also you know pitchers are fickle right the same thing can be applied to catchers as well like you just you don't know because durability is such a big part of catching you just

you don't know what that's going to look like down the road and so it's hard to make a commitment like that even to someone like Cal Raleigh who looks like he's well on the rise, all that good stuff. It's just these are, when you're getting into who's left in terms of extension candidates, there are a lot more complicated situations than Luis Castillo and Julio, right? Yeah, we've talked about this before. The Mariners are in a really good spot with their young guys.

You know, obviously they have Julio locked down for, you know, hopefully life, baseball life. You know, and they've locked down Castillo now. Gilbert and Kirby are, Gilbert still has five years of club control left. Kirby still has six. So they don't need to do anything there. They have five years with Cal Raleigh as well. So they don't need to get any of these done.

And honestly, if you're the players of those three players, you're the agents, you really don't want an extension right now because you're going to leave money on the table. So it just really doesn't make a lot. sense to extend any of those guys and those are kind of the three obvious candidates. I mean, maybe you could take a shot at locking down Matt Brash. But again, you have him for six more years at rock bottom rates. And if you're brash, you know, you might think, hey, I can still start. Maybe I get traded and I get a chance to start. And if I do, I'm leaving a lot of money on the table. So, you know, JP's already locked in. You're not giving an extension to Gino. He's in his 30s and,

you know, swinging miss issues there. got three years of club control. Right. And Thai France, right. In Thai France, I think, still has three years as well, maybe four. And France isn't a guy that you're, you know, bending over backwards to sign right now. It just, it doesn't make sense. You can just go year to year with him. And really the only other guy, maybe Tay Oscar, but I mean, that's a tough sell because Tay Oscar's never played here. He's never been here. He doesn't really know if he's going to like the fit or anything like that. You're guessing. So you're probably going to have to pay full market price, which, I mean, do you want to give to Oscar four in 80, four and, you know, 90, before you

even know if he's going to fit with you and your ballpark and your atmosphere and all that stuff? Yeah. It's a pretty big risk. So, yeah, I think the answer is nobody. Maybe a reliever. Maybe Paul Sewell gets, you know, they buy out of year. Paul C. Wall's free agency or maybe it's, um, maybe it's a pinch guy. Maybe Sam Haggardie gets like six years and like $8 or something small like that. But I don't think you're going to see any major extensions this this winter. You're not doing Calnick. You're not doing any of those. Tremel. You're not doing any of those guys.

So I think the answer is none. Yeah. The Tay Oscar one is interesting for sure because he does only have the year left. And maybe by the time that you get around the all-star break and you know how the player fits and all that stuff, maybe you do have those conversations. Plus, it should be noted that he does share the same agent as Luis Castillo's. So

Yeah, there's already a rapport there between organization and agents. Sure. We'll see. But same agent isn't the same as player, right? Right, yeah. I will say one like one dark horse author out there, Tom Murphy, maybe. You know, Tom might want to see if you can get a starting gig somewhere and he knows he's going to be the backup. But I think he's in his last year of arbitration.

And, you know, he's a really good backup catcher. He hits left. very well. And so if you can just kind of end, the Mariners really don't have a good in-house option to replace Tom Murphy. So I think Murphy may be an interesting one, but nobody major is getting an extent. I'd be

pretty shocked if the Mariners gave anybody like a five plus year extension. Yeah. All right. Next question coming from Max. If we don't trade them, even though I think we will, would you rather, who would you rather have

as your fifth starter? Chris Flux and or Gonzalez, maybe Matt Brash. Would you hope for someone currently in the minors? Listen to the show every day. Keep up the great work. Thanks, Max. So what do you think about this, Colby? If Marco or Flexen stays or both, which one would you prefer to start? Or is it still someone like Taylor Dollar, Emerson, Hancock, Matt Brash, etc.? So assuming they both stay, which I agree with Max, they're not going to.

But assuming they do and assuming they don't add any other pitchers, uh, who, have the possibility of starting. I would, I would, you roll into spring training with that as a true competition. There's no reason not for it to be a true competition, but, you know, based on what we saw last year, I would give the edge to flexen quite personally. You know, Marco, if he shows up in spring training and he's got like, you know, the 2019, 2020 type of control and the change up is, is flashing and all that stuff. And you can definitely give it to Marco, but both are number five's. I just think flexen is a little bit safer because he has a little bit more stuff and he doesn't need to be quite as pinpoint with his command as Marco does. And he frankly,

flexen was just better last year than Marco Gonzalez. So that would be my choice. I don't trust Matt Brash enough to throw strikes, you know, for six innings. He still had issues with walks even as a reliever. So if Brash comes in and he's, you know, he's dot in the corners and he's got tremendous command and control in the spring, then maybe give him a shot. But to me, it's flexin and then it's flexing in the Marco. And there's nobody in the minor league system that I think is ready to start or be in your opening day rotation. Agreed. Yeah, flexen is just the better pitcher than Marco right now.

And, you know, now on the flip side of that, he would also convert more comfortably to the bullpen than Marco would. So you do have to weigh that as well as like, all right, if I'm stuck with Marcoe. Marco if I have to roster Marco. I mean, you don't have to roster Marco, right? Like if you don't think that you feds, you just, yeah, you just DFAM. And then, you know, if you just got to pay that money, then you just got to pay that money. You got to eat the money. And that's just what it is.

But, yeah, I do think that that has to be taken into account. If Marco is close enough to Flexen, then I probably end up picking Marco over Flexen and just let Flexen pitch out of the bullpen. But it's got to be really, really close. I mean, there has to be, it basically has to be a tie. That's the only justification for it. Yeah. All right.

We got more questions coming up here in just a moment. We're real quick. A reminder of this episode of Lockdown, Mariners is brought to you by BetOnline. Betonline.net is your number one source for sports betting info, stats, news, and analysis. Get the latest odds and trends for every professional and amateur league out there from football to basketball to soccer and e-sports.

We've got it all at betonline.net. And if you love sports podcast, you can find those at Betonline as well. We're always the fastest and easiest way to get your best. betting fix head to the website today or use your mobile device to learn more bet online is where the game starts you're listening to the lockdown mariners podcast it's mailbag monday thank you so much for making us your first listen let's get back into these questions this one comes from michael i've heard you guys talk about bat speed such as in reference to jerry kelnick is it a measure of peak bat velocity or reaction time by the time a player hits the major leagues is there anything

he can do to increase his bat speed colby Yeah, so bat speed is, it's a scouting term for the most part. Now, they are getting more analytical with it. They can measure obviously the velocity of the swing and all that stuff. So yeah, it is, you know, the fastest the bat travels through the zone. But it is also, you know, it's kind of an all-encompassing type of discussion when you talk about bat speed. Sometimes it's obvious to see a guy can't hit 96, 97. you know and that like for example

Sam Haggurty against fastballs up left handed he can't touch him it's a bat speed issue with him left handed so yeah it's kind of an all-encompassing thing there is data for that it's not as easily available as things like Exa Velocity are so we don't have access to bad speed data it's more something that someone

like drive line would have access to rather than like baseball Savon right and yeah there are things that you can improve your bat speed now. You also need to understand that basically every year, there's a tipping point, right? Like after age like 30, you're going to lose some bat speed naturally. Most everybody does.

And that's when it becomes even more important to, you know, make solid contact because obviously, you know, the slower your bat moves through the zone, the less velocity you're going to generate. So, yes, it is something you can get better at. You can train the folks at drive line do a really good job with this. we know some mariners go to drive line there's things you can do to compensate for a slow bat you just have a quicker setup and you can get through the zone a little bit quicker and you don't need tremendous bat speed to be a great hitter you really don't tie france probably has average bat speed and he's a really good hitter so

bat speed's a little bit of a catch-all at least when I use it there are people who have the data and they would tell you this and this and there are hitting coaches who would tell you x y but for me I look at it and I say you know, is the guy late on a lot of pitches? Is the guy chasing? Is he guessing? Is he way out in front of the change-up? Because he knows he can't catch up to the 98 in the back pocket. That's what bat-speed is.

It's just about trusting that you can get, that you can cover the entire plate. And if you can't, you probably have some bad-speed issues. And, you know, again, you don't need bat-speed to be a good hitter. It certainly helps. But you can't have like just a glacial bat-speed and be a good hitter. You have to be, at least somewhere close-ish to the middle.

And while you don't necessarily need it to be a great hitter, there has been more of an emphasis placed upon it because, you know, pitchers and baseball are hitting 97, 98, 99, even triple digits more regularly. Right, that's just becoming a more common thing now where, you know, most, like, it's a rarity now to run into a pitcher who's thrown 91, 92, 93 with efficiency. Right.

So I would just say, you know, just a good general, like, does it look like a guy's guessing at the point? plate. If he does, then he probably knows he has bat speed issues. Right. Because he's trying to cheat, essentially, to catch up to the fastball. This is why we use Jared Kelnick as an example, right? You mentioned Jared Kelnik in your question.

This is why, right? Like, Kelnick looks like that guy. He looks like he's lost at the plate. And he looks like he's not able to catch up to anything, especially those fastballs up in the zone, right? Like, that's just. And we've talked about how, like, and we've talked about how it's like a must. off speed.

Yeah. We talked about how it's like a bulk issue for him, potentially a torque issue, all that stuff. So it goes into how you prepare your body, as well as how you train your body ultimately and train your swing and train all that stuff. So there's a lot that goes into it.

No, it might be a good idea maybe for later this winter. We should try to get one of the drive line guys on our show. And we can talk about how they measure bat speed and like, you know, how they extension for pitchers and all that stuff. And maybe just go over a few of these things. things because Ty and I are not, you know, scouts. We're not experts.

We don't, and we don't have the data that those folks have. So, yeah, it might be fun to have kind of a technical episode where we talk about, you know, how can you generate bat speed? How can you, you know, Matt Brash is working on a cutter. We saw that. Like, how do you go about creating a new pitch or whatever? So that might be a fun idea. I think I could make that happen to.

So something that, something to maybe look forward to in the future. All right. let's move on here to Randy. Randy wants to know with a departure of Eric Swanson and potentially more, who are some underrated relievers the Mariners could get this winner that be via trade or free agency. Randy mentions that he really likes Joe Jimenez. We also like Joe Jimenez a lot.

I think Jimenez, though, is going to be a little too expensive on the trade market for the Mariners' taste. But we'll see. Colby, you and I really like Seth Lugo, right? Like, I mean, at the end of the day, it's hard to focus on relievers because the Mariners tend to just pluck them out of thin air, mostly on minor league deals. And then they turn them into high leverage guys, you know, Paul CWalls, etc. So. But, yeah, Seth Lugo is one of the guys that we've talked about quite a bit. Trevor May as well, you know, local guy who's coming off of some injury issues, but has been a high strikeouts guy.

Anyone else? Yeah, so I don't think the Mariners are going to get involved in like the super high end relief market. They're not going to give $13 million to anybody, AAV or anything like that. So typically they're going to look for live arms in other people's system that they can't seem to figure out. Typically what it is is the Mariners, you know, scouts and also their analytics people find a reliever who they think has a pitch that's being underutilized or they have a pitcher who's trying to do something that they're not best at. and they say, hey, do the thing you're best at. And that's work in Gangbusters over the last few years. One name I'll throw out there who's not really a reliever,

but he could be, you know, if he is willing to give a shot. I do wonder if the Mariners maybe reach out to somebody like Drew Smiley, who, you know, could be a multi-inning, you know, middle guy or, I mean, technically they could even sell him in that he has a shot to win the number five starting job right now. So that might be appealing to him. But Smiley's a guy that we know they like. They acquired him once. So if he's willing to give the bullpen a shot,

I think the Mariners can get something a little more out of him. But in terms of pure relievers, I think Seth Lugo is a really good reclamation project. Yeah, Seth Lugo, high curveball spend rate guy. You can miss some bats and go multiple linens. And he's not going to cost much, right? I think the Mariners are willing to spend some money on the reliever market, but I think that is more like $3 to $5 million.

AV and that's where Lugo is probably going to land. Someone like Trevor May will probably land there as well instead of the 8 to $10 million guys, which is like Andrew Chafin. Right. I mean, maybe they signed one of those guys. Yeah, maybe. Yeah. But

it depends on how else they use their money, right? At the end of the day. So like if they have some excess money left and there's a reliever that they really like that they otherwise wouldn't land if you know, maybe this thing happened or this thing happened, you know, maybe they do that. But I would suspect that if the Mariners do add someone that,

out of reliever that actually costs a little bit of money, it's probably going to be someone in that $3 to $5 million range. I would say, like I would bet pretty hard that the Mariners best addition in the bullpen is a guy that nobody gets excited about. Right. You know, maybe they already added that guy, right?

Maybe Gabe Spire is that guy. Maybe he's that guy. Like, we don't know, right? Because like you just, yep, yep. But the, Yeah, the Mariners, like, they just do this, right? Like, they just do this.

So we don't, you know, you can't rule anyone out when they add them. By June, we could be talking about Bryce Miller and Perlando Baroa being high leverage relievers. Like, we don't know. So, yeah, they'll figure something out. I'm not worried about the bullpen at all. It should be, it's not like it's not a priority, but it should be at the bottom of their priority list. They're pretty darn good at it. Next question here comes from Grant of our minor league guys,

who do you see? Oh, this is a this is pretty relevant here. Who do you see ending up in the bullpen and who do you see starting? Perlanda Barroa screams reliever stuff to me. Bryce Miller, Taylor Dallard, any others worth mentioning? Isaiah Campbell is the one guy that I would

definitely mention here. I think Isaiah Campbell's going to be a legit problem out of the bullpen whenever he finally gets called up. There's some really nice stuff there to like. Yeah, Baroa is probably going to be a reliever because he's just one of those guys throws hard but can't find the strike zone.

You know, we've seen those guys are a dime a dozen, but there's some stuff to like there. Yeah, Perrault doesn't really have a third pitch. He's got a change up that he kind of messes with. It's not very good. But he gets a ton of whiffs on the slider and the fastball, the metrics to spin, the extension of all that stuff.

Like the fastball is off the chart. So I'd be pretty shocked at Baroa didn't make his, you know, debut as a reliever. No. They'll give him a chance to start, but I think ultimately, you know, the writing's on the wall with Broa, and that's why they added him to the 40, man.

Miller, I think, is going to get a longer leash to try and start because he's sensational. Miller's probably the best arm in your system right now. He could be a reliever. I can see the Mariners getting to June and just being like, look, we need stuff out of the bullpen right now, so we're going to go get Miller and Adam, and he's going to pitch in relief,

but the game plan still be to have him be a starter long term. So, Dahlard is not a reliever. He is, he's a starter. He's number four, number five, but he's not, he's not a reliever. He could do it. I mean, you absolutely needed an arm, but he's just not going to play up like Baroa or Miller will. Yeah, Isaiah Campbell's a great one. The great command, fastball splitter, that type of guy with a pretty decent slider.

If you're looking for an Eric Swanson replacement, Isaiah Campbell might be that guy at the other day. Yeah. Right. And again, the Mariners added him to the 40 man to, protect him as well. Travis Coon is kind of an interesting one. We'll see if he gets picked.

There's some Penn Murphy-ish stuff to him. Maybe a little bit Paul Seawald to Travis Coon, so that's an interesting arm. But yeah, you know, the Mariners, like Ty said, they just kind of pull these guys out of nowhere. So, Baroa, I would say, is definitely a reliever. Miller, I think can start. We'll see this will be a big year for him. He might make his debut as a reliever, but right now I would still say he's a starter. Dollar's definitely a starter.

Hancock's definitely a starter. And then if you're looking for just like pure relief arms, Campbell's already been moved to the bullpen full-time. Coon is a full-time reliever. And then I guess I would say, watch out for Brian Wu, who is just jumping up charts, fastball slider change up.

They're going to give him a long leash as a starter as well. And I don't think he'll make his debut in 2023, but I wouldn't rule it out entirely. coming out of the bullpen. It's big time stuff for Brian Lou. Yeah. And a lot of folks really like Joseph Hernandez as well. So there's going to be options for the Mariners to mess around with here. And I think we're going to see quite a few of the

names that we mentioned over the course of this upcoming season. And yeah. All right. So we got a few more questions to go. But real quick, a reminder, this episode of Lockdown Mariners is brought to you by Simply Save. If you thought about securing your home with home security, but I've been putting it off you want to listen up right now locked on mariners listeners can order the number one rated

simply safe home security system for 50% off this is their biggest offer of the year and you don't want to miss it here's why i love simply safe in an emergency 24-7 professional monitoring agents use fast protect technology exclusively from simply safe to capture critical evidence and verify the threat is real so you can get priority police response simply safe is whole home security with advanced sensors for every room, window, and door. HD security cameras for inside and out. Smarter ways to detect motion that alert you only when a threat is real, and even hazard sensors that detect fires, floods, and other threats to your home.

24-7 professional monitoring service costs less than $1 per day. That's less than half the price of ADT's traditional professionally installed system. With the top-rated Simply Safe app, stay in complete control of your system anytime, anywhere, arm or disarm, unlock for a guess, access your cameras, or adjust system settings. Don't miss your chance to say big on the only security system I recommend. Get 50% off any new SimplySafe system at SimplySafe.com slash Lockdown MLB today. This is their biggest discount of the year, so don't wait. That's SimplySafe.com slash locked on MLB.

There's no safe like SimplySafe. Colby, let's get into these last few questions we have remaining here. Starting with P&W for life. Is Emerson Hancock ready to jump into the rotation? If Marco Gonzalez and Chris Flexen were to be traded with the M's dare to roll with one of their pitching prospects or do they sign a starter slash have Brash fill the role? Emerson Hancock making your opening day rotation means a disaster has occurred. He's not no, just no. Even if he started spring training as your ninth guy and the three other guys got hurt and he's next in line, go sign somebody else.

No. you do not use Emerson Hancock in your opening day rotation. He's not ready. Hasn't proven. Maybe he comes out and he has like this George Kirby like jump where like we can start talking by May. Like oh wow, yeah, Emerson Hancock might be an option. But you're not doing it out of spring training. That's ridiculous.

So no. Do not use Emerson Hancock. And again, if you think there's a chance that you might end up using him early in the season, go sign somebody. Go give Michael Panetta $4 million. And then just eat it when Hancock's ready. hopefully in July. Like, don't do that. You have to have some reliability on the back end of your rotation.

Emerson Hancock's not better than Marco Gonzalez. He's not better than Chris Flexen. He's not better than Taylor Toler right now. That could change. We'll see how he looks in the spring. But there's basically no scenario where Emerson Hancock makes the rotation and you should feel good about what the Mariners did. It means the Mariners failed in the offseason.

So they need to go add an arm if they're going to trade Flex and Marco. They have to. And they've made it pretty clear, I think, that they are. are going to do that that that is the plan is that if they are able to get rid of flex and marco or what at least one of them that they're going to go out and sign someone right they jerry depoto has very openly talked about kodi singa now it's possible that singa is just a special case right like it's just like if we don't get this guy then we're not going to add a starter but i i would think that considering the conversations that they're having right now with other teams on flex and marco that

The plan is they're going to get someone else to at least compete for that number five spot. Senga would obviously be written and penn in the rotation. Anyone else maybe not so. But yeah, you know, and the Senga thing is interesting too, right? Because there are a lot of teams that are interested in Senga. It's not just the Mariners. There are a lot of teams that are openly talking about Senga. So I would say that the odds of them actually landing him are relatively low at this point.

But the fact that they are. interested, it signifies to me that they want to add someone and they probably will add someone, whether that's anger or not. Right. It's, I mean, one thing we know about Jerry is that he's creative in his team build. So if he doesn't think he can go get that big, huge impact bat, you know, the 140 WRC plus type of guy. There's only two or three out there.

If you can't go get that, okay, well, how do I win games? I'll just out pitch, you know, run prevention. and that's how I'll do it and that's how I'll spend my money. So don't rule out anything. I think there's a universe out there where somebody like Chris Bassett signs with the Mariners. Maybe it's Taiwan Walker,

maybe it's Nathan Avaldi. I do think there's a scenario where non-Sanga arms enter the Mariners rotation this offseason. I don't know which one exactly, but I do think it's definitely higher than zero that the Mariners add a legitimate number three

in lieu of or instead of you know putting $300 million on Kraya they go get Basset for 18 and then they go get you know Nemo for 24 or whatever

blah blah blah Andrew but Anthony whatever yeah yeah yeah yeah all right let's see here who else do we got here Sage Sage wants to know

do you think Kelnick would start at left field with today's roster no No, I think Sam Haggody would Or Dylan Moore Or Jesse Winker Or Jesse Winker Or maybe even Caterlow

Yeah, yeah, that's why I was going to say Cape Marlowe, right? Like I... He's on the 40 man now And I mean I mean, there's maybe a non-zero chance that the organization likes Kate Marlowe better than Jared Keltner at this point

Maybe enough to give him a shot over Kempik At least, yeah Yeah, so I would say no I think Tremel might even still be ahead of Kelnik But yeah, no, he wouldn't Yeah, Kelnick was starting games in the playoffs And at the end of the season for necessity Right?

Winker wasn't available Out of circumstance, yeah Winker wasn't available and neither was Haggerty So yeah There's two kind of big ones So yeah, I'd say no last question here from mike miller big fan here love the pod any idea how much a general manager and baseball makes per year are their contract structured like a player or would it be completely

different so i mean this information isn't public really like because the teams don't really have a need to make that information public uh obligation yeah uh i know there was like a study done Forbes, I think, back in 2016 that had like the top five general managers by pay and Brian Cashman was obviously number one. If you're asking this from a pure Jerry perspective, I would say that Jerry probably lay in somewhere in the one to two point five million dollar range per season. And in terms of how they're structured, I don't really know. To be honest with you, I would assume though that they're more in line with how like a contract for any job, any salary. repaying job would be. I don't know if there's guaranteed money involved.

I don't know any of that really because just, again, that information is just not out there. But general manager, I would just say this. General managers don't make a ton of money. To, you know, what everyone else in the league makes, right?

What players make, etc. I think, you know, the middle tier general managers, which I would consider Jerry Depoto to be just in terms of like name recognition and all that. I think they probably land somewhere in that, again, one to two and a half million

dollar range. Is there anything you want to add on this, Colby? Yeah, I would, I would say, I think the lowest earning GMs probably make about a player minimum, 750 grand, give or take. I think the top end GMs maybe get $4 million, maybe five at most. And most people, most GMs, my understanding is land somewhere in the $1.2 million a year range. one thing I believe, and I'd have to double check with somebody on this, but I believe general manager contracts are fully guaranteed, just like players in Major League Baseball, right? So if, like, for example, if Hollander's making a million bucks here, right? And he signs a three-year deal. And after a year and a half, you know, Stanton or Jerry decide to fire Hollander for whatever reason, they would still owe him half of his contract. Like, they don't get out of that. There is, so.

Unless, I guess, if you're fired with cause, like, you know, some kind of, you know, their HR problem, let's just call it. Then maybe you can recoup some of that. But I believe it's the same with managers as well. Contracts are guaranteed. Whatever you say, you're going to pay the guy. That's how you have to pay him. There might be settlements involved. Do you fire a guy early?

But it's generally, my understanding is that managerial contracts and GMs are, they're fully guaranteed contracts just like players. And also we should remember that in almost every single case, managers make more than general managers, despite general managers technically being the manager's boss. So, yeah, keep that in my GMs are they make good living. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying they're poor. But they're not, you know, raking in $20 million a year. Yeah. So, yeah, it's, it's a great job. More likely than not that a lot of analysts that you see on TV make more money than some of the general managers in baseball. Absolutely. It's part of the reason why I don't see Theo getting back into it unless he's offered ownership stake. Yeah. It's a really fun job when you're good at it, right?

But it is a thinkless job and it's not a high paying job relative, again, relative to what everyone else in the league is making. Your team is worth $4 billion and you're making $800,000. and you run the entire thing from the baseball side of it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Now, from a Jerry perspective again, maybe he makes more now that he is the president of baseball ops now that he's got in that title. Yeah. I don't know what that entails, though. I have no clue where to begin with that. To be fair, he was already president of baseball ops before he wasn't the GM. But yes, I would imagine that he's making more than Hollander and Hollander. Like, yes. Jerry is, is. Definitely got a pay raise. Yeah. So.

Yeah. And I don't know what Hollander is making right now. Teams do not typically share contract details about anybody who's not a player. Players they have to. Everybody else, they do not. Yeah. And there will be like times here and there like every five or six years where Forbes or someone will talk a little bit about that stuff and they'll get some information on that. But with inflation and everything, who knows, right?

like that $3 million mark for Brian Cashman, that may very well be like $6, $7, $8 now. Who knows? I really like I have no clue. But yeah, again, like, you know, we said at the end of the day, they're not making a ton relative to what managers and players are making.

So it just says what it is. All right, that's going to do it for our show. Thank you so much for joining us here on the Lockdown Mariners podcast. For Colby Pat Nod, I'm Tadangis. Be sure to give us a follow on Twitter at L0 underscore Mariners. You can follow me at Dan Gonzalez. us to C-A-N-E, G-N-Z-L-Z, and Colby at C-P-A-E-E-N-Z-E-L-E. You can also find all that stuff in the description of this episode, and thank you again

for making us your first listen. Now, for your next listen, check out the Lockdown Sports Today podcast, featuring the biggest stories of the day, plus instant reactions, big game recaps, and the take of the day. It's available on the Onesty app, YouTube, and wherever you get your podcast, just like us. And with that, have yourself a beautiful baseball day, and we'll see you tomorrow. Peace.