Locked On Mariners - Daily Podcast On the Seattle Mariners - Mariners Trade Fists Then Trade For Bat

Episode Date: June 27, 2022

The Mariners got into their first brawl in 15 years on Sunday and made a trade a day later. Hosts Ty Dane Gonzalez and Colby Patnode offer up their thoughts on the altercation, what Seattle will have to do in light of its expected suspensions and what Carlos Santana brings to the table.Be sure to follow or subscribe to Locked On Mariners wherever you prefer your podcasts! For questions and other inquiries, email: [e-mail] the show on Twitter: @LO_Mariners | @danegnzlz | @CPat11 | @InsideMarinersFor more of Ty and Colby, check out their Patreon: patreon.com/controlthezone/Athletic GreensTo make it easy, Athletic Greens is going to give you a FREE 1 year supply of immune-supporting Vitamin D AND 5 FREE travel packs with your first purchase. All you have to do is visit athleticgreens.com/MLBNETWORKBlue NileMake your moment sparkle with jewelry from Bluenile.com, and LOCKED ON SPORTS listeners get $50 off purchases of $500 or more using code LOCKEDON.BetOnlineBetOnline.net has you covered this season with more props, odds and lines than ever before. BetOnline – Where The Game Starts! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

The Mariners got into their first brawl in 15 years and then made a trade a day later. So yeah, we got a lot to talk about. Let's get into it here on the Lockdown Mariners podcast. Colby, hit it. You are Locked-on Mariners. Your daily Seattle Mariners podcast, part of the Locked-on podcast network, your team every day. What's up, everyone? Welcome to the Lockdown Mariners podcast brought to you by betonline.net.

Betonline has you covered all season long with more props, odds, and lines than ever before. our bet online is where the game starts. It is Monday, June 27, 2022, and thank you so much for making us your first listen of the day. We are free and available on all platforms. I am your host, Tadayne Gonzalez. joined as always by my co-coast, Colby Patnode. We cover the Mariners over inside the mariners.com for Fan Nation over on the Sports

Illustrated network. Be sure to follow the show on Twitter at L0 underscore Mariners. Follow Inside the Mariners at Inside Mariners. You can follow me at Dane Gonzalez, and Colby at C-P-E-P-E. A T-1-1. Be sure also check out our Patreon at patreon.com forward slash control the zone. We post two additional podcasts on there every single week. And if this is your first time joining us here on the lockdown Mariners podcast, welcome to the show.

If you like what you hear, give us a follow or subscribe wherever you're listening to this. And if you're watching us on YouTube, hit the subscribe button, turn on the notification bell and give this video a thumbs up. We greatly appreciate it. This has probably been the most eventful 24 hours of the Mariners season this year. It has popped off in a major way. The Mariners had their first brawl in 15 years since Richie Sexton decided to throw a helmet at a poor Texas Rangers pitcher all the way back in 2007. We're also going to be talking about a trade that the Mariners made today. They acquired veteran first baseman slash designated hitter Carlos Santana and cash from the Kansas City Royals and return for right-handed pitchers, White Mills, and William Fleming.

But let's get into this brawl Colby. Before I ask you just kind of what your overall thoughts are here with the brawl just now that we're pretty much 24 hours removed from it. Let's just kind of recap what happened. Saturday night, Eric Swanson came into the game. It was a two-run game. The Mariners were up five to three. And he threw a fastball that was up and in around Mike Trout's head.

And so that kind of set everything off because the Mariners and the angels started jawing at each other. during the night as well, before the game ended, and he knew something was probably going to happen. So the cut to Sunday, and the Angels had Suarez initially slotted into pitch, but then they replaced him kind of last minute with Andrew Wants to be an opener, and Phil Nevin basically used Wants as a hired gun. He had Wants throw at Julio Rodriguez's head on the first pitch of the second at-bat in this game missed, thankfully, but decided to take another shot the very next inning against

Jesse Winker throwing a fastball right off of his butt cheek, basically. And that set everything in motion and everything popped off from there, as it should have, quite frankly, because that is ridiculous. You get one shot. You get one shot. I think that it's generally known by anyone in baseball. If you are going to respond in some sort of way, you get one shot to do it. got their one shot at Julio and that should have been the end of it but they just did not let it go and then

anthony rendon who is out for the year with a wrist injury was the one to kind of egg winker on and it was on from from that point forward fist started flying suspensions are going to be handed out we don't know what that's actually going to look like yet we're going to be talking about that a little later on in the show but finally i'll cut to you here colby what are you just now that we're a little more removed from the whole incident. What are your overall thoughts on how everything played out? I guess we'll start at the top. Phil Nevin is a disgrace to Major League Baseball.

What he did was not only dangerous. It was cowardly. It was a desperate attempt to jumpstart his team, which is one of the highest payrolls in baseball and has two generational talents, literally two once-in-a-lifetime type of talents on the roster. hitting back to back in their lineup. And yet still, they find themselves in a dogfight with the Seattle Mariners and their $80 million payroll for third place in the division currently.

So we'll start with that. Phil Evans is a disgrace to baseball. He shouldn't be in the game. He went out there and with malice, ordered his pitcher to throw at the head of one of the youngest stars in baseball. Thankfully, he missed. Right. And there wasn't really any kind of a brush up about that.

Like they missed, there was a little bit of join between the dugouts, but that was it. You know, the Marines were prepared to move on. Nevin sends the same guy back out there this time they hit Winker. And if you think it's an accident or it was just coincidence that Anthony Rendon is the one who's inciting a brawl, it's not. It's because he's out for the year. So what is the suspension going to do for him? It's a desperate attempt by a small, small man to try and energize the troops because he's incapable of doing it himself. he used an injured player as a buffer and he lost control of his team quite frankly

uh razel glacius comes back on the field after everybody had left to throw sunflower seeds in the general direction of the mariners tough guy ooh look at me risale iglesis is a chump uh he's a coward just like his manager so you know uh attitude reflects leadership and that's the kind of leadership that you're going to get from uh phil nevin the angels are going to remain what they always happen, an absolute dumpster fire. So, you know, character gets revealed in times of adversity. There you go. Mike Trout is a whiny baby.

Phil Nevin is a joke to the game who deserves to be banned for life. Razelle Iglesias is a fake tough guy. Anthony Rendon is a goon who just likes to stir stuff up from the safety of, well, you can't suspend me. I'm hurt. So nobody acted bravely. Nobody acted like, oh, I'm stuck. everybody, this is a very calculated way to safely incite a brawl. And unfortunately, it's probably going to work for them because the Mariners lost their three best players.

Two of them, you know, obviously, we're going to get tossed. Still haven't heard an explanation for why Julio was tossed. He was in the middle, but that a lot of guys were in the middle who didn't get tossed. So I don't know, like, including Marco Gonzalez. So I don't know exactly. Julio was incensed. Manny Acta was holding him back for a while there, but I don't, I didn't see anything that, like, if any other, if a third mariner was going to get in trouble, I feel like it should have been Justin Upton because he was getting in the middle of things quite a bit there and drawing back and forth. And obviously there's an even, you know, bigger meaning to, to that for Upton, who was, of course, cut by the Angels this year, basically paid, you know, $20 plus million to go, go away.

you know earlier this year so you know you got to understand that he probably feels slighted and some sort of way on that front as well but you know now you know i put my thoughts on record already about this i recorded a locked on now video it's on our youtube channel if you want to go watch it it's also on our on our twitter page um so i'm gonna use the rest of the time that we have here to kind of talk about the bigger picture and why this matters and why major league baseball has a very important decision to make and why I feel like they're going to end up getting it wrong. But I'm going to take off my Mariners hat here because let's just be objective about it, right? I'm not talking about this from a Mariners fan's perspective.

This is not a bias take whatsoever. The Major League Baseball has to come down on the Los Angeles Angeles of Anaheim harshly. And the reason why for that is, again, Phil Nevin, at the last moment, replaced his scheduled starter with a hitman and Andrew Wants. And I don't blame Wants specifically, right? He's just doing what his manager was told,

or what his manager told him. But this now sets a president from Major League Baseball, because all these teams are watching, including the Mariners, that if Phil Nevin and the Angels organization do not receive significant punishment, that you can just do this,

You can just get away with this. And now more guys are going to be thrown at because now teams are going to be like, well, I don't have to waste my starter. I can just use an opener and just start throwing at guys if I feel the need to. Great. Cool. I'll do that. So let me up. I only have to suffer a two game suspension.

Cool. Like Phil Nevin has to be suspended for a significant amount of time. He's not going to get banned for life. That's not in the realm of possibility here. You know, he's, no one is going to suffer any sort of significant consequence to the, to the, to the point. where they're out for the entire year, but something has to happen beyond the typical four game, five games,

seven game suspension that ultimately gets brought down to three or four games after an appeal. Something more has to be done here because you are setting a precedent to the rest of the league that you can just get away with this, that you can just do this. And that is a dangerous, dangerous, dangerous, dangerous game you're playing. You are putting people's livelihoods at risk here. imagine if Andrew wants, and I said this after the Hector Nera situation when he threw at A. E. E. O. Haneo Svarez's head. Imagine if Andrew wants connected with Julio Rodriguez's head.

This is a 21-year-old kid who is just beginning his career and looks like an amazing, incredible baseball player that is going to dominate this league for years to come. Had that ball connected with his head, we don't know what could have happened to him. something incredibly serious could have been could have happened to Julio Rodriguez that could have derailed his career is it likely that would have happened who knows but there is a risk involved a very real risk involved there that Andrew wants Phil Nevin and the Angels organization

have to be held accountable for you have to they have to be held accountable just for the incredible shadiness of the whole situation in general. And Major League Baseball isn't stupid. They know. Well, they, their decisions might reflect that they're stupid, but they know what's going on here. Yeah.

They understand. We all understand what happened here. The Angels premeditated this. They premeditated a situation here where they were going to be able to respond in a way that did not hurt them in the game. And it hurt the Mariners. It bated the Mariners into losing three of their best players. and they ended up losing the game 2 to 1 and probably would have won that game had they had

Julio Rodriguez, J. P. Crawford, or Jesse Winker. Let's be real about it. So, Major League Baseball has to do something here. Has to. Has to. Something significant. Will they, though? No. No. Absolutely not. Absolutely not. We know how Major League Baseball operates.

And we know that at the end of the day, the Mariners are probably going to end up suffering more consequences from this than the Angels are. And it's disgusting. 100%. It's... And by the way, there's a stat that came out today. The Mariners have been hit by pitches from A.L. West pitchers 27 or 29 times this season.

They've hit AOLS hitters five times. This isn't a Mariners issue. The behavior, the numbers, all of that support that. This is not a Mariners issue. The Mariners did not egg this on. The Mariners did not carry a beef from a week ago over from the Justin Upton situation and respond. They didn't even try to. continue it after Mike Trout started talking to the media on Saturday night.

They jawed back and forth with the angels because of course they're going to do that. They're going to defend themselves. And of course, Jesse Winker is going to defend himself after this. At a certain point, it just becomes too much. And after they had already dealt with this with Houston and now dealing with this with the angels who didn't even, like there was no beef here. There was no beef whatsoever. That's why Colby, you know, I messaged you after the brawl happened and we've, you know, been pounding the table for a brawl to happen. for a long time.

Honestly, after it happened, I didn't even feel fulfilled because there was no buildup to it. There was no real beef. There was no, like, I didn't have any sort of emotional investment with it. Like, had it been the Astros, like, I understand this,

this was just out of, kind of just out of left field and just really the angels just doing, doing something that really, it didn't matter who the opponent was. It just felt like they were just trying to find a problem to give themselves some sort of spark, some manufactured spark.

and they found that. They did that. And they were able to win a game pretty much because of that. But it just, there was no like two and two is an equaling four here. Yeah. First of all, I'm still happy because it's team brawl. And it was against my least favorite team in all sports. I hate the Angels.

I think that's been well established. And this is more reason to hate them, which is I didn't need, but I appreciate. So first of all, I'm still okay. with it. Like I said, the unfortunate thing is that Jesse Winker and J.P. Crawford are probably going to suffer the biggest suspensions. Both are going to hurt the Mariners quite a bit. Major League Baseball is pretty much going to give the Angels a pass, you know, because really your manager being suspended for even 20 games doesn't do anything. Like, you're fine. You can survive without your manager for a week. It doesn't matter. It's not like they're losing Mike Trout. It's not like

they're losing show hey, Otani or anything like that. But if I'm major league baseball, not only am I coming down on the Angels Clubhouse, Iglesias is getting, you know,

five, six, seven games and he's a reliever. So that's potentially two or three outings from him. By the way, what kind of weirdo behavior was that? Like, even his teammates were not cool with that.

Like, they were even like. That is the fakesest tough guy. Like, I'm very secure about my masculinity. Let me go throw this bag of sunflower seeds near the, direction of the opposing team after the fight is over.

Like, ooh, wow, you're really tough, Rizel. That's the guy the Angels gave $60 million to. So, yeah, but if I'm major league baseball, I'm not only coming down hard on the Angels, I'm coming down hard on the umpire crew, who after the game had the nerve to say, well, we couldn't really have seen that coming. When everybody and their mother knew what happened and why it had happened,

uh, you could, you should suspend the umpire crew. Nothing's going to happen to them, by the way. And I would also suspend the Angels or not suspend. I would also punish the Angels organization because there's no way the front office didn't know that this is what Phil Nevin was going to do. You think Phil Nevin just decided to insert an opener and the front office is like, oh, well, we don't need to know why. No. That didn't happen. So if I'm Major League Baseball, if I'm Major League Baseball, Nevin's getting at least 10. I would probably do

20, 25, but it really doesn't matter. He's a manager. Glacius is getting at least a week. I'm suspending Rendon 10 games retroactive to his return off the IL. And then I'm still, obviously, I'm still handing out probably one or two games for Winker. I'm still handing out probably three or four for JP because you can't jump over the top of a pile and start throwing punches. So, I mean, yeah, some Mariners deserve to have a suspension. That's fine. Julio doesn't.

As far as I can tell, I haven't, I've checked the video as much as I can. Major League Baseball is going to have every single angle available for it. But yeah, I'm not saying the mayor shouldn't get in trouble for any of this. Winker probably deserves a suspension. You understand why he did what he did. But it's still, I mean, you know, it's a suspension. He pushed past a couple umpires. JP's probably going to get hit with the longest suspension because he legitimately threw punches over the top of the pile.

But yeah, the Angels to me, if I major league baseball, the Angels are losing a draft pick, are losing slot money or they're losing something because this is very intentional and it's very it's a very dangerous precedent to set that a team can inside a brawl to win a game and then suffer zero consequence long term so yeah what do i think's going to happen nothing the mariners will get hit the hardest the angels will get a slap on the wrist and the umpires will not even get fine well and the the umpires are really the ones who are most at fault here because this could have been controlled honestly saturday night when when all of this was going on And they should have been more than aware of what was going on heading into the ballpark.

I mean, even Jim, even Jim, even Jim Mueller mentioned on Twitter yesterday that fans were talking about it. People, you know, people working at the ballpark were talking about it, that it just felt like this was going to happen. And it did. Surprise, surprise. You know, it's just nothing was put in place here. As soon as they threw at Julio, it should have been done. That should have been a wrap. Wants should have been out of there. They should have ejected Wants.

They should have ejected Nevin right away. And then you issue the warning. I don't have it because you don't want the Mariners to retaliate. By the way, the Mariners have never retaliated. They didn't retaliate against the Astros. They didn't retaliate yesterday. They don't retaliate. Okay.

So to sit here and try and paint the Mariners as the villains of this, which I know Angel fans have to do because they know deep down that their franchise is despicable. And what they did was borderline cheating. They know. But they can't admit it to themselves. So yeah. And by the way, just I know we got to wrap here. but when the umpire says he didn't think that that was going to happen, he's lying.

Or he didn't know about the B from last night. He's lying. Umpires get, uh, they get briefed on on certain issues that might arise from nights before. They knew. They were well aware. Somebody from major league baseball told them somebody from the teams told them. Somebody from the umpires union told them they knew. So when they say, oh, well, we didn't know about any of the stuff that happened last night.

Yes, they did. It happened right in front of their eyes. And even if they did miss it, they were told about it. So that's a lie. Just remember that. Yeah, absolutely. All right. So we're going to be talking about the ramifications of all this.

You know, we're going to be talking about, you know, what do the Mariners do now that they're probably going to be without Jesse Winker, J.P. Crawford, maybe even Julio Rodriguez for some period of time that we don't know yet. And more in just a moment. But real quick,

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Go to blue nile.com today. You're listening to Locked-on Mariners podcast. Thank you so much for making us your first listen of the day, just like you do here every day. We greatly appreciate your support. So where do the Mariners go from here? Basically, we expect that some suspensions are going to be handed down at some point today before the Mariners kick off their three-game set with the Orioles at T.

Mobile Park. I just don't know when that's going to happen. But we also expect that any player or anyone that gets suspended for that matter on the mariner side is going to appeal that suspension, which means that they will be eligible to play until a suspension is eventually finalized. So we'll see when that actually happens, how that plays out. But it is interesting that down in AAA Tacoma last night, Jared Kellnick was not in the lineup. He had played six straight games before that after dealing with a hamstring issue. Seems like he's fully recovered from that.

And he's been playing pretty well down in Tacoma. He's also cut down the strikeouts a lot. He's only striking out 21% of the time in the month of June. That's over 18 games. It's still a small sample size, but he has definitely made some progress. And it's pretty clear when you watch videos of him that he's made some sort of change as well with his approach and his setup.

So there is progress there. So what do you think about the possibility of calling up Kelnick if they need him to play a couple days in Winkers' absence? You know, it starts with the Mariners not having a ton of options. unfortunately. You know, there's only two hitters in the minors right now who are on the 40-man roster who are healthy. And that would be, well, I guess there's three, but you're not calling out Alberto Rodriguez,

who's an A ball, high A right now, kind of struggling. So you're not going to do that. So it's either Kelnick or Haggerty, and you're probably going to have to call up both because JP's also going to catch a suspension. And maybe more, who knows, they seem to have a vendetta against Julio for some reason. So yeah, it's probably out of necessity they're going to have to do something like that. You know, they did add Carlos Santana. So, I mean, that takes up one offensive spot, I guess.

But no, it's just it's one of those things where it's probably going to have to happen. And it's okay. You know, it's tough to blame the Mariners for calling him up because they really don't have any other options. I guess they could put Marcus Wilson on the 40 man and DFA somebody. But it just... Actually, they still don't have to DFA anyone. They can still transfer Murphy to the 40 men. And, well, they also still have an open spot.

Or sorry, yeah, transfer him to the 40 men. Transfer him to the 60 day IL. And then they still have a open spot on the 40 man as well because they traded wide Mills. Right. Well, that got taken by Santana. Yeah. So, so they, so they still are at 39 though right now. Okay. So yeah, but then do you want to add somebody to the 40 man for three days and then probably have to DFA them when you make another move?

No. I don't know. So it feels like Kelnick is the play here. And if it's for a day or two or however long, winker suspension is fine. But he needs to go right back down because he's still not at a place where he's given you better at bats than Taylor Tremel. He's still not out of place where he's going to give you better at bats than Jesse Winker, who had a very nice road trip. He's obviously not better than Julio right now.

I mean, is he better than Justin Upton? Yeah, but come on. So it's just one of those things where they kind of don't have a choice. So I would suspect he's up whenever the suspensions get finalized. I don't think that's necessarily what yesterday was about. I think that was more just a day off. But we'll see. We'll see where it goes.

but I would still say yesterday was more about the day off because like you said, we don't even know if suspensions are going to be handed down today or tomorrow. And it's expected that, I mean, they're going to appeal. They always appeal. So I suppose it's possible that Winker just, if it's like a one game suspension, Winker just, okay, fine, whatever.

But yeah, if Jesse gets suspended for two or three games, then you probably have to call up Keldnick. Yeah, and I mean, we'll see because also it remains to be seen if Crawford and Winker are going to have to serve their suspensions at the same time. Because I mean, if they do it at different times, then you could just see a path here where it would just be Sam Haggerty fills those spots as the suspensions happen. And, you know, Haggerty could play left field or, you know, he could play shortstop or, you know, Dylan Moore could play shortstop or what have you in place of both of those guys. So there is a, there certainly is a possibility here where Kelnick, doesn't get called up at all.

And certainly the arrival of Carlos Santana helps with that a little bit as well. But it would be interesting to see Kelnick. Because again, there have been some pretty clear changes made in his approach. We'll see if, you know, he's able to sustain that. It's a small sample size still. But maybe there's a benefit in seeing him up close in Seattle, just seeing what progress he has truly made. If it's only going to be for a couple days, right? There's no harm in doing that.

It's not going to completely derail his his development. And you're not using a minor league option or anything. He's already used his minor league option for the season. So you can send him up and down as much as you want for the rest of the year. So I just, I don't really see like a negative to this. I don't know if I really see a positive either. I think it's more just a matter of you might just need the bodies. And Kelnick is the easiest way.

to get a body on the roster right now because he's on the 40 man. But I don't know, maybe there is something that that has changed there and they see that. And maybe, you know, they feel, hey, he gives us more than Justin Upton does right now. Let's just keep him and, you know, ways with Upton at that point. Who knows? But we'll see. We'll see how it all works out. And again, we might not have clarity on this for a couple days, you know, because, you know, like we said in the first segment,

there's a lot to go through here. There's a lot for Major League Baseball to go through here. And if in the very small, small, small percentage chance that they actually are going to do the right thing, it might take them a little bit of time to sift through all this and figure out how they're going to dull out all these suspensions. And so we might not know until tomorrow what that's all going to look like. But I would still assume for now that we're going to see suspensions tonight before the game. And then at that point, the Mariners are going to have to respond. in some sort of way and maybe that's with Kellnick

maybe that's uh you know they they just uh they they you know they fight the suspensions and are able to push that at least a week out or a few days out and we just worry about it later on down the road but it does seem like there is a growing possibility here that we might see Jared Kellnick um in Sam Haggurty here in the coming days so we'll see how that how that goes uh we're going to be talking about Carlos Santana

who's the newest mariner in just a moment but real quick a reminder this episode of Lockdown Mariners is brought to you by BetOnline. Betonline.net is your number one source for all your betting needs and sports info. Find all the latest sports developments, league reviews and news, including this year's NHL playoffs, the major league baseball. And betonline is your continued source for all your sporting weightering information, including live betting these sports and scores. And betonline.net remains the best spot for all your sports scores, podcast, and news

this season. It is the fastest and easiest way to check in on all your favorite sports and events, including MMA, boxing, and golf. So head to the website today or use your mobile device to learn more about the trends in action. Bet online is where the game starts. So the Mariners have acquired first baseman slash designated hitter Carlos Santana and cash. Don't know how much it is from the Kansas City Royals for right-handed pitchers, Wyatt Mills and William Fleming. And Colby, I didn't really like to steal when I first saw it.

I like Fleming. As you know, we've talked about Fleming a little bit on here. 6'6 has a nice breaking ball. There's some stuff to like there. He is, however, 23 years old. He's still in low A Modesto, so that should be taken into account here. There is a very real possibility that he is just nothing at the end of the day. And Wyatt Mills is, you know, Colby, I'm not a believer in whatsoever, so I don't really feel anything about that.

I really don't have an issue with the return necessarily. It's the circumstance in which this deal was made from the Mariners that, from the mariner's side of things that I have a little bit of hesitation with. you're 34 and 40 the playoffs still seem like a very much distant possibility for you right now you want to compete and hey you know i i applaud the mariners for for making some sort of move that makes their major league roster better despite the struggles that they've had this season i think that should be mentioned here that said though this is a rental and aging rental at that he's 36 years old he's a first base d h type and he's not really hitting for power right now he's slashing 216 349 341 with 4 home runs 21 rbi he is walking a lot he's walking 17% of the time and just striking out 13.2% of the time so that is interesting that is helpful he gets on base and he hits lefties pretty well as well so that's good he's a switch hitter of course um but a lot of his numbers when you really dive into it from this season are boosted by the month of june he's not an incredible month of june he has a 198 WRC plus this month.

Outside of this month, however, he's been bad. He's been really bad. And that coincides with the last two years for Santana as well. He's been really bad over the last two years as well. So there's a very real chance here that the Mariners get absolutely nothing out of Santana. And they trade an interesting prospect in Fleming for him, someone that is widely considered to, or was widely considered to be one of the.

30 best prospects in the Mariners system this year. And, you know, really you look at Santana. You look at the track record over the last couple of years. He could bottom out. He could very well bottom out. There really is no floor. And they're really like you look at his numbers right now. Very similar to what Jesse Winker has done this season.

Like the numbers across the border are very similar to Winker's numbers. The problem is he doesn't have anywhere close to the upside that Winker has. So, but he has a. significantly lower floor. Honestly, the floor isn't even existent. Like the floor is basically rock bottom. It's just a bottomless pit, more or less. And so,

I don't know. It just seems like a weird risk for the Mariners to take right now. Even though that the cost of it isn't incredible, had they done this with a winning percentage, you know, with a winning percentage above 500, I wouldn't even bat an eye, quite frankly. But given what they got,

with where they are right now, The fact that he's a rental and he may or may not give you something, I just, I don't necessarily get it. I'm very much on the fence about this deal. How do you feel? Yeah, initially wasn't a huge fan. Did a little closer look at Carlos Santana. The numbers June has been fantastic. He's a switch hiter who's hit righty or who has hit lefties well all year, which, you know, the mayors have struggled against. They don't, they don't have, you know, lefty killers in their lineup.

Will Fleming is a guy that the Mariners, they'll draft another Will Fleming this year. You know, you feel good about the Mariners. When they target a pitcher that they like him, they're going to turn him into something. So I agree with you. I think the timing in terms of where the Mariners sit right now in the standings makes it a little weird. And because he's a rental, that also makes it a little weird. But I think it also probably points to how expensive other rentals are going to be like Tray Mancini and, you know, Josh Bell, because I honestly, I feel like Will Fleming and maybe not

Wyatt Mills, maybe somebody like, I don't know, George Fleeze or Jonathan Closset or something like that is probably what it would have cost you to go get Josh Bell, who's better than Carlos Santana. So it's rental bats are going to be crazy expensive. And if rental bats are going to be expensive this summer, imagine what controlled bats are going to be. It also, you know, the Mariners also did jump the trade deadline by five weeks. So that does add some cost to acquire a player like Santana. I guess I would say performance wise, though, there are some good indicators here that it's been a lot of bad luck in April and May.

It's like you said, it's very similar to Jesse Winker, you know, 92nd percentile on K percentage, 99th percentile walk percentage, 82nd percentile and width percent. percentage 99th in chase rate, 73rd and average exit be low, 77th and max, 61st and hard hit, 81st in XWBA, 55th and X batting average and 57th and X slug. He's been worth plus two defensive runs saved up for his base this year,

which is basically he's been as good as Thai France, give or take. Out's above average metric, not a big fan of his. So we'll see. We know how hard it is to judge first baseman using metrics. but overall he's probably at least still an average first baseman he's a guy who can dh he still fits even when even when slash if tie france returns and if hypothetically

france returns and an an aneur reticitate putting santana on the bench and maybe just kind of platooning him as a against against righties or against lefties then then so be it i mean will is a nice piece. He's not an irreplaceable piece. The timing is just a little weird for a rental and not even a rental that you say you feel like great about. So we'll see that the cash they save really doesn't mean anything to us. It's irrelevant. White Mills, the organization clearly had given up on. So that's really nothing to worry about per se. It doesn't mean he won't do something for Kansas City. But, you know, we talked about this in the past. When the Mariners are good, they're going to make deals like this, that they're absolutely going to lose on paper.

And we've used the Kendall Graveman for Abraham Toro trade. The Astros absolutely lost that trade. Regardless of how poorly Toro is playing right now, the Astros lost that trade. When you just get the end of it, Abraham Toro will give the managers more value than Kendall Graemean gave the Astros. But it doesn't matter because they're winning or they're trying to win. And those are the type of deals you have to make when you're trying to win. So I guess that you could spin it in a set.

That's a good thing, that they still think they're going to. can win and they're willing to pay a little bit extra, even though they're six games under 500. There's a lot of different ways you can go. Like, oh, is Kyle Lewis not expected to come back anytime soon? Is Ty France's injury worse than we think? Blah, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, I still give this trade like a C plus, B minus. It's not a great trade by any stretch, but the Mariners got better today.

The Mariners may have added their leadoff hitter. And there's a small chance that, well, he's probably not going to hit what is 355, like he is this month, there's a decent chance that he is still an above average hitter. And if that's the case, then you're feeling okay because he has, he has been

that, an above average hitter who draws a lot of walks and doesn't strike out. He's been that for pretty much his entire career. And the thing too is you could probably trade him again in about a month or so and probably get something similar to what you gave away. Yeah, I don't think that's really

like crazily out of the you know picture here so you know it's a it's an interesting deal it's you know something that look the mariners needed to do something and Carlos Santana no matter how you slice it is essentially better than half of the Mariners lineup

and that you know is that says more about the Mariners than Santana but it's true you know again no matter how you slice it Alice more trends like like the Mariners got better today. The mayor's major league roster got

better today. I would even say significantly considering who Santana is essentially replacing. So probably taking up ads away from Kevin Padlow and Justin O'Brien. Yeah. So much I mean yeah, that's that's great. So that

to me, I would give the Mariners a pretty strong grade on this still. It's just the timing of it is weird to me. I think the trade overall had the circumstances been a little bit different for the Mariners. They'd you know, them being in more of a winning situation or a more favorable situation to win, it would make a little more sense to me.

But still just looking at it, the more that I talk about it, the more I like it. And we'll see how it plays out for the Mariners. But there is certainly some risks that comes along with it as well. And it's just one of these deals that we'll just have to keep an eye on for a while and see how it all plays out. But it helps the Mariners right now. And that's the most important thing. And hopefully that helps them survive. the france absence and these upcoming suspensions a little bit better than they would have otherwise so

tomorrow's show is going to be pretty fun we have sophy dill uh mariners fan who uh i'm i'm sure a lot of our listeners has become familiar with uh over the last 24 hours or so uh they are the ones that uh ordered jesse winker pizza after he was ejected in yesterday's ball game and uh we we had a fun chat about that uh so that full interview. You can watch a clip from it now on our YouTube channel or on our Twitter page, but the full interview is going to be out on tomorrow's show. So look forward to that. And we'll be talking about tonight's game and a whole lot more on tomorrow's episode of lockdown Mariners. But that's going to do it for us on today's show. Thank you so much for joining us here on the lockdown Mariners podcast for Colby Pat Note. I'm tidying Gonzalez.

Be sure to give us a follow on Twitter at LO underscore Mariners. You can follow inside the Mariners. You can follow me at Dan Gonzalez, the C-A-N-ZL-L-Z and Colby at C-Pat-E-E-1. You can also find all that stuff in the description of this episode. And thank you again for making us your first listen of the day, just like you do here every day. Now make your second list of the day. Lockdown MLB Prospects. Host Lindsay Crosby is a prospect encyclopedia. And he's going deep on the MLB stars of tomorrow.

It's free and available wherever you get your podcast just like us. And with that, have yourself a beautiful baseball day. And we'll see you tomorrow. Peace.