Locked On Mariners - Daily Podcast On the Seattle Mariners - Who Should the Mariners Give the Ball to in George Kirby's Absence? w/ Marine Layer Podcast

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Ty and Colby are joined by Lyle Goldstein and TJ Mathewson of the Marine Layer Podcast to discuss some of the biggest Mariners talking points in Spring Training.Check out our Patreon!Follow the show on Twitter: @LO_Mariners | @TyDaneGonzalez | @CPat11Follow the show on Bluesky: @lockedonmariners | @tdg | @mlbcolbySupport Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Wonderful PistachiosLooking for a snack that’s both delicious and nutritious? Get snackin’ and get crackin’ with the snack that packs a protein punch. Visit WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more.Supply HouseJoin the TradeMaster program today at SupplyHouse.com/TM and start ordering plumbing, HVAC, and electrical supplies with just a few clicks. Plus, use promo code S-H-5 for 5% off your first order. That’s SupplyHouse.com!Monarch MoneyTake control of your finances with MonarchMoney. Use code LOCKEDONMLB at monarchmoney.com for 50% off your first year. FanDuelRight now, new customers can get TWO HUNDRED DOLLARS in BONUS BETS when your first FIVE DOLLAR BET WINS! Download the app or head to FANDUEL.COM to get started. Bet with FanDuel—Official Partner of the NBA.FANDUEL DISCLAIMER: 21+ in select states. First online real money wager only. Bonus issued as nonwithdrawable free bets that expires in 14 days. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook.fanduel.com. Gambling Problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit FanDuel.com/RG (CO, IA, MD, MI, NJ, PA, IL, VA, WV), 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP to 53342 (AZ), 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org/chat (CT), 1-800-9-WITH-IT (IN), 1-800-522-4700 (WY, KS) or visit ksgamblinghelp.com (KS), 1-877-770-STOP (LA), 1-877-8-HOPENY or text HOPENY (467369) (NY), TN REDLINE 1-800-889-9789 (TN) Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

It's time for Mariners Content Creator Roundtable. T.J. and Lyle of the Marine Layer podcast, join Colby and I coming up. You are Locked-on Mariners, your daily Seattle Mariners podcast. Part of the Locked-on Podcast Network, your team every day. Ahoy, sailors. It is Thursday, March 13th, 2025. This is Tiding Gazzal for the Lockdown Marys Podcast. Part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Today we're joined by T.J. and Lyle of the Marine Layer podcast to discuss.

their recent trip down to spring training and some of the biggest questions on the Mara's roster. So without further ado, let's get into it. All right. Please welcome back to the show, the host of the Marine Layer podcast, Lyle and T.J. How's it going, guys? Good. We almost didn't make it today, Ty. This whole fiasco before we were trying to record.

Lyle was in his car. Yeah, Lyle, please share with the class, what has transpired over the last 15 minutes or so. Well, I was trying to big time, you guys, because I was going to sit in my car. and half drive and half do the interview. And then I decided to be a nice person and said, you know what, I will sit at my desk. I will set up my mic. I'll actually give them my time a day. No.

My Wi-Fi went out at the worst possible time, like maybe 10 minutes before we were supposed to start this thing. And so I got in my car and tried to drive a little bit up the street to get better service because I didn't have Wi-Fi and then it turned back on. We were ready to start when I drove up like a minute up the street and I turned around. So, yeah, it's been a little bit of a fiasco and probably way too much. information for everybody listening but here we are we're finally sitting here yeah went from we were going to get both of you guys on to potentially just be and tj to you were going to do it in your car to now you're you're back we're back yeah big time brock and sulk producer you know forgetting about the

little people so i mean make sure to forward that information to the both of them so they'll bring it up on yeah or bring it sorry bring it up tomorrow which one they will and two it honestly would not have been the craziest thing in the world. And TJ can attest if I just ended up accidentally falling asleep before I was supposed to come on the movie. Because now I basically can fall asleep on command. When you get three to four hour sleep and wake up at 4.30 in the morning, like it's you lie down for a second or sit down for a second. Yeah. Out like a light.

I swear. Well, if, uh, if we were going to tell Brock and Salk, it'll have to be, uh, it'll have to be, uh, it'll have to be tie because I am blocked on Twitter by Brock. by Brock. Oh, no. What did you do? I don't know. It was like six years ago. I was going to say, if I had to pick between the two of them to figure who would have blocked somebody, Brock

would not have been my answer. No, I think it was about Chris Ioneta. All right. If I remember incorrectly. I am blocked by Brock. Show topic for tomorrow. Sure. I don't go write the email.

So yeah, Ty will have to send in the story because I am not allowed to. So you guys were just down in Arizona. Tell us a little bit about that. You guys got to, you know, hang out on the backfields, talk to some guys. How was all that? It was great. First, I do want to give a shout out to the Mariners. They redid, remodeled the little bit of their major league backfield area to make

it better for both the players and the fans. And I think they did a really good job. They put more turf down. They lowered those high fences next to the bullpins. You know, actually have like a clear view of what you can watch. So it made the overall experience, I'd say, for both fans and media a lot better.

But getting down there, it is kind of hard to not feel some optimism when you're walking around. You're seeing guys throw. You're seeing guys hit. And you're seeing this progress. You're seeing the ramp up. You get to talk to some guys. And, you know, there's a lot of optimism.

around the team on, you know, for some of the regulars, for the rotation guys who, besides George Kirby, have been relatively healthy. We've had some pretty strong endorsements of Victor Robles down there and what he's going to bring this year and real, real belief that what he did with the Mariners last year is 100% real. So it's, it's kind of hard not to be buoyed a little bit after what could have been probably

a worst case off season to have, you know, the players still on the team still believing in this current roster. Yeah, that's about right. We had some really cool conversations with people and getting to see a bunch from up close. It's always cool to see the games, but it's the stuff during practice and in the mornings out on the backfields that you really more so take away, I would say. We could not get over watching the Andres Munoz change up, especially in live at bats. We were there on that Monday when he threw it to Cade Marlowe. We were leaning right up against the fence.

We looked at each other and we're like, what on earth did we just watch? Like it looked that good just off, you know, the pure naked eye, which was crazy. And then to see this account, which was, I've only discovered it the last like couple weeks, but it's a really good account. Pitcher profile, pitching profile, something like that. When Munoz started throwing it in a game, they tweeted out the stuff plus and said, this is like as good of a changeup as I can remember seeing on a grade just on the metrics. So that was crazy.

And when we talked to Munoz about it, he was saying how. how he was kind of trying to downplay it a little bit, which I get. He's like, we'll see how much I use it. We'll see how much I really decide to kind of break it out in games. Because he was talking about how he does grip it different when he's actually throwing it in a game than he does in his bullpens, which I thought was interesting. But it's also so new, you know, I'm sure he's just making some adjustments as he goes. But point being like just seeing him throw it and seeing the metrics that have popped up with it,

I am going to bet we will see that pitch, at least to some extent. during the year. I mean, it's early on just graded out too well. But yeah, that was just one of so many awesome storylines that we got to take away from what was, yeah, a really fun week in Arizona. What I thought was like fascinating about the, the pitch he threw in in the game. It was what, I think like five inches of drop and the peak one was 10. And the five inch one looked pretty good. I'm going to be completely honest. Don't know if he quite needs to go all the way to 10. I feel like the five is good enough. Yeah, so far it's looked really good. I've only had the chance to see it a couple of times.

But I saw the same grades that you mentioned Lyle and I think he graded it out as an 80 grade pitch, right? Pretty close. I think the stuff plus on it was 149, which is nuts. That's 49% above league average. That's ridiculous. Yeah. I mean, I remember seeing him throw it in the bullpens down in Peoria and somebody got this

on footage. I can't remember who it was. Somebody on Mariners Twitter got it. but somebody captured Brian Wu watching that bullpen, and he, like, was so mesmerized. He put his head into somebody's arms. He's like, what on earth did I just watch? And then Munoz followed it up by walking over to the actual field

and then throwing it to Marlowe. And Marlowe looked just beyond overmatch. It was wild. We're from our conversation with T.J. Lowl in just a moment. But first, a reminder, this episode of the Locktime Airs podcast is brought to you by Monarch Money. Ever check your bank account and wonder, where did all my money go? Between dining out, online shopping, and entertainment, it's easy to lose track.

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You can track shared and personal accounts, set goals, and stay on the same page without the stress. Take control of your finances with Monarch Money. Use promo code locked on MLB at MonarchMoney.com for 50% off your first year. That's Monarchmoney.com promo code L-O-C-D-O-N-M-L-B for half off your first year. So when I was on your guys' show a couple weeks ago, you asked me, this was right before, games started up. You asked me like, what was I hoping to see this spring? Who were some standouts that I thought would would crop up over these few weeks? Now that we're actually in the swing of things, who stood out to you the most? Obviously, you just mentioned Munoz and the change up,

but who outside of that or what outside of that has stood out to you guys the most? From the big league roster, I think it's a little bit harder from the big league roster because you'll get in this cycle where you're going to be like, all right, so, who's had the best spring training stats-wise so far. And we realize that spring training stats really don't mean much. It's hard to, I'd say hard to buy into a lot. So maybe go a little bit more process-oriented.

It's nice to see Mitch Garver look a little comfortable swinging the bat. He's gotten around on a couple nice pitches for some home runs. And I think it's just, oh, so important. A, that his hand's not broken, but B, that he's got some sort of confidence, even if the results themselves don't carry over to the regular season. I think the Mariners need him to feel confident at the plate because I don't think he was confident at all at the plate last year. He very clearly made some changes and are they working?

We'll have to see regular season games, but he seems like he's more comfortable. It's hard to not choose Colt Emerson too. This guy has played 107 professional games total after getting drafted in 23 and he's in there against big leaguers and looks totally comfortable. It's insane to watch this dude at the plate having so little experience that he has and he's still in big league camp and he looks like a borderline big league are already at age 19. It's it has floored me. And yeah, he's and he seems like he's got a good head on his shoulders and kind of reminds you a little bit of Jared Kelnick personality wise. The face for sure. Yeah. So take that as you well. But those are just a couple of things.

I would, I mean, I would say he's more mature than Jared probably was. Is that fair? Yeah. He's a little more toned down when it comes to, I guess the arrogance is probably the right word, right? Sure. Yeah, and Colt's not like that. He's like very nice, like very, you know, like engaging with people. But when you talk to him, he is very, very mature for his age about his business, like puts his head down and works, like that sort of thing. In that way, I understand the comparison compared to Midwest guy, you know, do look a little bit alike. So in that ways I get it. If that's what you mean. mean, TJ. Yeah, and just like baseball heads. I mean, baseball is life. Yeah. Baseball is life.

Baseball is life. What else did I take away? Because those were two huge things that we really circled and have talked about. Garver and the swing adjustments and just how advanced Cole Demerson looked in big league games. If you want another, I know I already used one bullpen storyline, but I really cannot get over how well Matt Brash has recovered so far from this Tommy John. And look, he didn't get the full thing the way Co. Co-R did and some others did where his recovery process is faster. But regardless, he got that surgery in the middle of May last year.

And the fact the Mariners are saying that he is still on track to return to games in late April, that's a pretty ridiculous turnaround for a guy who we all know is desperately needed in that bullpen. Look, for as many problems as the offense had last year, it's been well documented for every good reason. They have Matt Brash in that bullpen last year. I bet you the season looks a little bit different because we know that bullpen ran into a flurry of problems, especially down the road in the second half and on

when they just didn't have another guy behind Munoz who was a true A guy out of the bullpen. And Munoz really, I mean, I'll say it he was a little bit overused toward the end of the year. They had to rely on him a lot. So if Rash is really going to be back early here and he's looked great so far. When we saw him down there, he looked great.

He's like responded well, hasn't had setbacks as of yet. He just threw his live bullpen yesterday. I think that's about as good as you could ask for for a guy that, again, at Tommy John's surgery and is on track to get back less than 12 months later. Let me add on another one that is, I'd say less than the positive light in terms, but something I was definitely focusing on down there. I was just watching third base.

Who's taking reps at third base? What do we see, Lyle? We never saw Polanco suit a, we saw some take grounders once down there. since he has, you know, played in games at third, which is nice. But otherwise behind him, it's like Miles Master Bonny. We saw Ben Williamson taking some reps there. And we saw Ryan Bliss take reps there. It's not, not the most surefire group in the world playing third base.

I'm not going to lie. They are going to rely on Polanco a lot. Yeah, that's kind of the big question mark on this roster, right? Colby and I have talked about this almost to, to death. over the last week or so where like second base I actually feel pretty decent about now I'll be fair I'm I am drinking the coolid on on Ryan Bliss and I actually want to talk about him a little bit here in a second but third base I'm just like if Polanco doesn't work out what do you do like really what what do you do like Ben Williamson without the power doesn't profile as a

legitimate everyday third baseman. No, he's Josh Rob. Yeah, and then Dillamore might have to be part of the second base answer. And then Austin Shenton, can he actually play third? Like, there just isn't, at the very least at second base, like you have Dillamore, you have

Ryan Bliss and hopefully eventually Cole Young. At third base, you just, you don't have an option like that beyond Palanco and even with Polanco, it's like, okay, the defense is going to be bad. Like, we know that the defense is going to be bad. You're hoping, and this is clearly what the mayor is playing with this was, going from Rojas to Polanco's that you're going to get a bat that profiles better at third base. But even then, coming off the injury, like, should we be confident at all in the bat? Like, I don't think so. So, yeah, it just kind of seems like we might be heading down a path here where we're having a very

similar conversation about third base leading into the deadline, assuming that they're actually in a position to buy. We're talking about the same names that we just did the last, five months like Nolan Aeronado who that's a very complicated situation it just kind of seems like they might end up hitting a dead end there at third base I don't know if either are you to realize this it was not till the mariners re-signed polanco and announced that he was going to play third base till I realized I know he's played third base in his career I did not realize how few games he's been at third base in his 180 year career yeah he's played 24 career Rear games at third base.

And I thought it was at least more than that. It's not. No. That's going to be a project. Yeah. And he's coming off of a teletinent injury. Like, and we know as we're all Seahawks fans, right?

Like, TJ, yeah, yeah, you guys are both the Seahawks fans. Like we've seen it with, and this is obviously football. It's different from baseball, but still, like, we saw like what it did to Will Dissly. We saw what it did to Jimmy Graham. Like, that's a very, very serious injury. Now, it clearly wasn't as severe as a. those guys's injuries because he was able to play through it and he was able to recover in time from his surgery to be able to participate in baseball activities but yeah having him coming off

of that injury looking to bounce back offensively in t mobile park no less and having to learn to play to play a new position it's just there's a lot on his plate there's a lot that's being asked of him so i'm just uh yeah i'm a bit anxious about third base right now with the merri's but uh i want to i want to want to circle back here and talk a little bit about Ryan Bliss. So again, I'm kind of drinking the Kool-Aid on Bliss. I've liked what we've seen so far in the spring. And I'm just kind of in the camp of, and Colby, maybe you can talk about this a little bit more as well.

I'm kind of in the camp of just give him the keys and see what happens. And that way you can put Dylan Moore back into his role of being the utility. He's still going to get a lot of run at second base. But that way he's freed up a bit more to go play at third, you know, play at shortstop when JP needs a blow, maybe play in the outfield occasionally, what have you. Do you guys feel the same way? I think the best case scenario of this is, so I agree. I do think Bliss should be playing every day at second base over Dylan Moore.

First of all, when Dylan Moore started playing every day the last handful of years, he's been a mariner, the production is slipped. When he has to be in the lineup and produce every single day, it's not led to the most fruitful results in the world. I also don't think second base is the best use of his defensive skills. When you place him around the infield, the infield's actually his worst defensive position from what defensive runs,

defensive runs saved is graded out. He's better in left field. So if you, and then you zoom out and you take a look at the Mariners left field situation and you realize you have probably one of the five worst defensive left fielders and Randy out there in left field could change, but I'd say the older he gets, it's just kind of unlikely that he improves defense.

in the outfield. So say you D.H. Randy instead and you put Dylan Moore in his utility role out and left field. I think that is a better use of his skill set while also allowing Ryan Bliss to at least give him a chance to prove that he earns it. He's probably a level ahead of Cole Young at this point when it comes to development. So why not then just give him that opportunity at second base to to see if his bat can stick. If you give him at bats every day for two months in the big leagues, does it translate or does it sort of, you know, sink a little bit? I've realized looking at his minor league track record, he's got pretty much one breakout season at one level in the minor leagues.

And that was double A in 2013 or 2013, God, 2023. Besides that, it's been a pretty rocky road for Rhymeblest. So this would be a good opportunity for him to be in one place for multiple months in a row and see if it works. Yeah, in a perfect scenario, right? One, Bliss proves that he belongs in the big leagues and can play in a big league lineup and can be a productive offensive second baseman. But especially in the year of 2025, especially if Bliss sticks, not only does that allow Dylan Moore to be put in the role that he's best at being a utility guy, but that also allows you to ease Cole Young in a bit when he's ready too. Because I would say in a perfect 2025 scenario, you have Ryan Bliss hit the lefties. and once Cole Young gets up, you have him hit the righties.

Because as exciting as Cole Young has the chance to be, he has had some struggles with left-handed pitching in the minor league. So if you let him just ease his way into things a little bit once he gets called up and you find ways to play both of them and play to their strengths, at least in 25, long term, I'm sure they want Cole Young playing every day. But, yeah, that feels like the best of both worlds. You maximize all three of the strengths of those players and you allow Dylan Moore to be in the role he's best at,

and in that scenario, that would mean Ryan Bliss sticks, which would be awesome. And then Colby, that means that you don't have to have Leo Rivas or Miles Master Boney on your roster. You could do something else with that roster spot. Yeah. What would you do with that roster spot? Rowdy? God, no. That was the other thing we took away at spring training.

Rowdy was so awesome when we talked to him. So now we're selfishly rooting for him to make the roster. Yeah, you're not alone. It just doesn't. And I honestly don't think it's impossible. It doesn't make any sense. Not with Hanager on the roster. Well, if they decide to move on from Hanigar,

actually do feel like it makes it a little bit of sense. So that's the big if at this point. Yeah, yeah, agreed. But yeah, I mean, like the Mariners are going to want to carry somebody who can play shortstop. Bliss, I mean, maybe he can. Like, he plays second. We know that. He's played short, but does he have the arm for it?

You know, there's some limitations there defensively. And if Dillamore is your primary second baseman, do the Mariners feel comfortable just sliding him to shortstop at JP gets hurt and putting Reeboks in at second base or Bliss or whoever, Master Pony at second base? Maybe, but what you could do is you could just, you know, Dylan Moore is on the bench where he should be. Ryan Bliss is your second baseman. If JPS leave a game, you just slide Dylan Moore in and everybody else stays in their spot. And you don't have to move multiple people around and you open up that bench spot for something

a little more valuable than a guy who's just there to, I mean, Leo Rivas did some nice things for you last year, but he's not a plus glove. He's not a plus hitter. He's not a plus runner. Like he's just kind of depth and master bony, not much of a track record there. And so you're kind of using a spot specifically, you know, on your bench for a worst case scenario. Whereas if Dylan Moore is on your bench, then you have, you know, more versatility and you're not asking guys to move around multiple spots when there's one injury. So I think Bliss, you know, being the everyday second baseman is the best case scenario for the Mariners. It also opens up the interesting idea that if Bliss is showing that he can be an everyday player at the big league level, you get to July, do you think young second baseman?

Probably, especially young controllable, making the league minimum second baseman. Yeah, you could trade Ryan Bliss. You could trade Cole Young, right? And it's just one of those things where like there's a lot to gain from starting Ryan Bliss. And honestly, there's not that much to lose because bad Ryan Bliss, if you give Bliss, I don't know, a month, six weeks of every day at bats. And he's just not doing it for you. Send him down.

Insert Dillmore. Like, that's the downside is that Dillamore has to do what you already think he's going to do. The upside is that you find a three-win second baseman. You open up a roster spot that you don't currently have. And you allow Dillamore to do what he does best, which is, you know, pick his matchups, find the right spot to use them and, you know, be kind of that Swiss Army knife. So I think there's a lot of benefit to Ryan Bliss being the everyday second baseman, enough so that I think they should give it a shot, at least to start the year.

And if he does work out, I mean, that's exactly what they were lacking this off season when it came to trade capital. They didn't have many tradable big league position players that they felt comfortable moving for, I would say a non-money reason. Having someone to trade for a non-money reason could bring back a pretty decent value, right? You don't have to dump, say if they wanted to trade Randy or Rosa Rain, well, you're going to have get less return because the anticipation as you get rid of $12 million alongside that. But this doesn't cost anything. He would just be a big leaguer, right?

Our conversation with TJ and Lowe continues in just a moment, but first a reminder of this episode of the Lockdown Marys podcast is brought to you by wonderful pistachios. Looking for a snack that's both delicious and nutritious. Crack into a good source of protein with wonderful pistachios. Wonderful pistachios is one of the highest protein nuts. Each one out serving has six grams. a protein, giving you over 10% of your daily value. Plus, they're packed with fiber and better for you unsaturated fats to help keep you feeling fuller, longer. Personally, I love the no-shells variety.

It's the perfect grab-and-go snack for busy days. Whether I'm snacking at my desk or on a road trip or just need a quick protein boost, they're always my go-to. And if you love cracking open every shell for that satisfying crunch, the in-shell options are a classic favorite. Get snacking and get cracking with a snack that packs a protein punch. Visit wonderful pistachios.com to learn more. So I want to circle back. You mentioned Rowdy to Les. Again, the only way that I can see that making sense is if they actually move on from Mitch Hanager,

which good luck with that. Like what the mayor is actually, you know, being willing to eat 15 and a half or 17. 5 million dollars. We're still not really sure what the specific number is if it's 15 or 17, but it doesn't matter. It's a really high number that the mayors are probably not going to be willing to. to eat for no return whatsoever, even though the return is probably

going to be a negative value, but it's already a sunk cost, but sure. Let's think it's already. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But yeah, we haven't seen Luke really play much first base this spring. Did you guys hear anything about that while you were down in

Arizona? What do you make of that in general? Because it kind of feels like Luke really has to be the first basement, just to make this whole roster work. Yeah, we were thinking the same thing. It does look a little strange, But it doesn't it didn't feel like that's a huge story. I think it's more so. And this is their process, not ours.

Because I think Luke Rayleigh needs as many reps at first base as possible because he's not a first baseman. Not really. But I do think they want to see other guys get more reps at first base to see what they have as other options. It sounds like Luke Rayleigh is going to be at first base no matter what, no matter if he's playing in the outfield or D-Hing or on the bench and spring training. So yeah feels about right. I'm guessing they just wanted to get Locklear reps and Solano reps and Talaz some reps. And yeah, ultimately I would be shocked if they go with a plan at first base that's not Luke Rayleigh and Solano.

I would, oh man, it's thunder and all this. Do you guys just hear that? Yeah. Yeah. Like very faintly. Okay. Okay. So it's coming through the mic.

Anyway. You all, we just got it. Anyway, not important. I was just going to say, yeah, I'm with TJ. At the end of the day, I'm guessing they're just trying to move some guys around and do some different things in spring training. Just like how I don't think Ryan Bliss is really going to play a ton of third base this year, even though they had him taking some reps there this year. I'm guessing, or this spring, I should say, yeah, I think at the end of the day, it'll be Rayleigh. But I am with you guys.

Like the fact he's essentially played no first base is interesting. You think for a guy that is mostly an outfielder, you'd want getting a lot more reps at first. face but yeah what do i know yeah i had heard from someone else who was down there earlier the spring that like perry hill was on his you know taking grounders over at first like they're really trying to get him ready for the regular season so it is a bit surprising to me that they're not getting him actual like in-game reps or at least more in-game reps than he's received so far but that really to me is like that in combination with them actually being willing to just move on from hanager that's the only way that I could see Raleigh Tala is making the roster.

I don't think it's impossible that they would move on from Handegro. I don't doesn't feel like I'd say a foregone conclusion that he makes the roster, but I could be wrong. Well, I mean, that's what they should do. Like you guys said, they're going to pay them no matter what. So it's just like you ask the question, all right, so do you want the roster to be better or worse? Exactly, exactly. That's the whole point of this thing.

And it's, you have more flexible pieces. that can help you in a bunch of different ways, especially because, like, they've always operated as if they basically just had 12 position players on their roster. Like, Colby and I say this all the time. Like, if it were up to them, they would have 14 pitchers or more on their roster at a time, but they just,

they can't. The rules don't allow for it. You know, so they're always kind of like, Colby always says, like it feels like they're playing, you know, 26 versus 25, right? But at the very least, like,

if you move on from Hanager, you can have someone that, like, like Samad Taylor. right who you don't really care if he only plays once a week and he can come off of the bench and give you some value on the base pass all that stuff right and that's probably more than what hanniger can give you at this point right right yeah again about it being the sunk cost if you wanted to spin the narrative that way i guess there's a way you could try to paint that storyline ultimately we'll see how it gets resolved here in the next two weeks but yeah could there be some

thought that the reason raley's playing more outfield is because they want to want to see more Rowdy Telles at first base, although I still feel like he'd do more d-hhing than anything. But, yeah, they're trying to get Rayleigh more back into the outfields with the idea that Hanager may not be here and they're looking for other options at first base. If they don't work out, first base is an area they could easily target at the trade deadline, something like that. I'm not saying that is what's happening.

I still feel like the most likely scenario is they probably hang on to Hanigur and they probably end up having Rayleigh just play first. but if you want another way to spin it, it's possible, I guess I'd say. Yeah. So plus first base isn't even that hard. Tell them, Ty. It's incredibly hard. It's incredibly hard.

So you guys are obviously big Emerson Hancock guys. Meanwhile, the guy to my right, if you're watching on the screen, is the most anti-Hankcock guy there is in our community. I'm not anti-Hankok. I just think he sucks. difference. I mean, well, is there, though? Let us tell in the comments below. So I just wrote an article today about why I believe the mayor should give Logan Evans the ball in George Kirby's absence.

So I want to hear you guys talk this out a little bit. Logan Evans or Emerson Hancock and those what seems to be maybe only just a couple of starts while Kirby ramps back up. We'll see how seriously the inflammation is. Didn't seem like Justin Hollander was too concerned about that. But in Kirby's absence, however long it may be, you're giving the ball to Hancock or Logan Evans. Before TJ answers this, you know what makes this hard for as much as we really,

really do love Emerson Hancock. Logan Evans may be our single favorite guy in the org. So this makes this really hard. It's like parents are the top too. Yeah. I'm going to be honest. I haven't had the chance to meet Logan yet, but I know, I know Ben Renary has gotten along with him really well as, as well. So like, I've heard nothing but great things about Logan.

He's the man. Yeah. Let me, let me try and answer this. I'm going to say in terms of like ready to start a big league game in April, I think Emerson Hancock's more ready than than Logan Evans is. I'm purely from a baseball perspective here. Ty, I know you mentioned in your piece, you're talking about Logan Evans stuff. I've not read the piece yet when we're just. I'm going to go read it.

So I'm a little bit better informed on this subject, which I understand. Emerson Hancock's stuff is not incredible. He's a groundball pitcher, gives up a lot of hard contact. He struggled with that a lot last year. And in a couple of starts, it really got to him and ballooned his numbers. That Milwaukee starter, I remember, was awful. Yeah, awful for him. But he's tinkering, he's changing.

I mean, he's in the same cut from the same cloth as a lot of these starters when it comes to evolving. He came into camp this year with four new pitches to try out. Because he knows he needs more swing and miss. He knows he needs different looks. And while the sample is small, and again, spring training results don't matter. They don't.

It doesn't matter how low your ERA is. You just can't use that. But he was getting some more swing and miss. So on a pitch by pitch basis, he has had some success in spring training, getting some whiffs using his heater at the top of the zone. And he's hoping, again, to get, he's implementing a cutter as a different look to his fastball.

guys just can't sit and tee off on his fastball, which would be good and hopefully lower the threshold of hard contact against him. He's never going to be a huge strikeout guy. I think he knows that. And he's just going to try and evolve with that to more success. And I also think he understands that like, you know, as much as he struggled at times, he is a big league starter at this point. He just happens to be behind five other big league starters in this organization. Logan Evans, I do feel I could probably use a couple of good ramp up months in double A or AAA, wherever the Mariners decide to start them. We hope it's in AAA, but we'll see.

And, you know, get them ramped up, get them ready to go. And then so you don't just like kind of say, hey, welcome to the opening week rotation. Good luck. Sure. That's probably about right. Hancock's been there before. You kind of know what you have in him. Plus, I mean, give the guy credit.

He is, by tinkering, he is trying to basically throw a bunch of things against the wall and hope something sticks. It's unfortunate he doesn't have the same stuff he once had when he was drafted out of Georgia back when he was throwing 99 back then. But, you know, I think we know, like, he's had some injuries and that's likely played a factor and why the Velo's been down the last few years. But with that, if he's going to try to try to essentially be a bit of a junk baller and try to change speeds and keep guys off balance and really lean into being a groundball pitcher,

at least for the first couple outings until Kirby's back, yeah, I'm interested to see what new look Emerson Hancock looks like, especially with all the new pitches. And like TJ talked about, you don't want to take too much into account in terms of what happens or doesn't happen in spring training just because it can be fluky. So yeah, like if I had to guess, I can't imagine Kirby's going to miss a ton of time. It sounds like from what's been reported out there, this is not shocking, but Kirby doesn't seem that happy that he has to shut it down. If it was up to him, he just work through it. He'd just power it through and say, no, I'm fine. Meanwhile, the trainers say, let's not have this linger around all year and play it safe, which is the right thing to do.

Let's make sure you're good for six months of the year. So let's say Kirby misses three starts, max, I'll say four starts. That even feels like that might be stretching it out a little bit. Yeah. Three games out of 162, at least to start the year where you're going to rely on Emerson Hancock to keep you in the game, somebody who's had big league time before. I'd probably lean into that to start the year and then come May, June, let's see where Logan Evans is at. And if he's really dominating again in AAA, yeah, he may be, he may pass Emerson on the depth chart. Sure. Before I pass things off to Colby, I want to address one thing that you said about the Mariners know what they're getting out of Emerson Hancock. That's exactly my argument against

Emerson Hancock in this situation. You don't know what you're getting out of Logan Evans yet. You don't know what exactly he is. And I do think that he is ready for at least a taste of the majors. And March and April is the perfect time to just gather information. Sure. But I'd say more March while you're in Arizona and the games don't count is the time to to gather all the information you need. And I'm sure they understand all the information in front of them when it comes to

when it comes to those two pitchers. Here's I'd say maybe the most basic way I think about this. Emerson Hancock's going to get two starts in Team Mobile Park, essentially, and it turns in the rotation. I would feel totally comfortable, however you look at his stuff, that Emerson Hancock could pitch well for two starts in the best pitching environment in baseball before handing things back over to George Kirby. So what, they play 16 out of 19 at home to start. I think that's what it is. It's a lot of games at home. So it works out.

Yeah. I just don't want to see Evans get rushed. That's all. This is a guy who was drafted in the 12th. just a year and a half ago and then started in AA in 2024. And to his credit, he passed with flying colors. He was unbelievable last year. But I just don't want to, I mean, it's not even comparable between age,

between totally different positions and totally different skill sets. But, you know, I don't want to see him get Jared Kelnik, where essentially you get, you know, rushed up too fast. It can mess with your confidence. It can mess with your, you know, whatever. And then it becomes a little bit of a teetering seesaw rather than give him a few stars. to the miners, let him get it right. And then by June, he should be ready to go. And you saw what happened to him last year when they essentially said, hey, we're going to

try and fast track you to the majors. And it didn't work. You put that kind of pressure on somebody. It sometimes it'll work. But sometimes, you know, in the case of Logan Evans last year, they didn't see what they liked by moving him to the bullpen. And they moved him back as a starter. Who knows how this, the entire season would have gone. They just left him as a starter. Right. Different scenario. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. All right.

Well, now it's scorched earth time. Colby, take it away. I really don't like when you try to paint me as this guy, but,

yeah. You bet you yourself as to this guy with regards to ever since that guy. I'm getting there. I have a process. First things first. We say it's only two or three games. How big of a difference could that make?

I don't know. Let's ask the 2024 Mariners, the 2023 mirrors, the 2021 Mariners, the 2018 Mariners, the 2014 marries, the 2016,

Mariners. How big of a difference can one or two games make? 2014 Mariners? I've been at enough game 162s where the Mariners have a shot to get into the playoffs. If everything breaks right on the out of town scoreboard, only to be disappointed every single time. So

the one, two, three games, that's not that big of a difference, is it? I don't know. You tell me. I've only seen one playoff game in 20 years. So yeah, that part, don't agree with that. That being said, I actually don't have that big of an issue. They do decide to start Hancock over Evans if it's only for one or two starts. You start talking about a month or whatever.

It's time to ride the upside at that point. But if it's only one or two, and it should only be one, by the way. You can absolutely skip that fifth spot a couple times. So it should. There's no reason to give Hancock more than one start. But the actual answer to this question is neither of those guys. They should go sign somebody like Spencer Turnbull. So, yeah.

not a big Hancock guy obviously you guys know that uh you know anytime somebody comes into camp with four new pitches it's probably because the other four are all really bad and they are they're terrible change up is pretty good i'll give him the change up he doesn't throw it as much as he should but change up but it's tough to have a really good change up when you have no fastball value whatsoever that that is a good point yeah yeah the uh you know so we'll see and and i've only got to see Hancock pitch once this spring. Nothing new blew me away, anything like that. VLO 94-95, that's fine if the pitch had movement, if the pitch was a high spin rate pitch or if there was any kind of value to it, it's not. It gets it gets torched. Gives up a ton of hard contact. He doesn't have

really good command either. He's in the middle of the plate a lot. He'll throw strikes. But if you have bad stuff and you're throwing things in the middle of the plate, that's why you give up a lot of hard contact. The one thing that kind of saves him there is that he does get a lot of ground balls, right? A lot of two seamers, a lot of sinkers, a lot of change up. So that's a lot of ground balls. So, you know, ground balls typically don't turn into extra base hits. So you do have to kind of punch up a bunch of hits against him to score. But yeah, I prefer guys who can miss bats. I prefer guys who have really good stuff. And, you know, Evans, the metrics seem to really like his stuff a lot more than my, like just my eye does. Because I watch.

Evans pitch and I'm like yeah that that's pretty good but maybe it's just because I watch you know Brian Woo's fastball you know 30 times a year or I watch you know Luis Castillo or Logan Gilbert and everything by comparison is just kind of me so maybe that's it but yeah like I don't really know if I want them to have Evans start in in April because again like you guys talked about it's like is he ready for that challenge I don't know he got roughed up by the the White Sox B team this year, this spring. And I mean, the White Sox are a B team. So the White Sox D team then?

Kind of. But he did, you know, he did, uh, Evans diced up the Dodgers pretty well. Now it wasn't the Dodgers A team, but still. No, but it was still TEO and Tommy Edmund. Sure. There was a couple guys. But like, yeah, I just, to me, go get a veteran. The Mariners didn't spend all $15 million. And they told us it was for this reason.

If something goes wrong during the season, we want to have a kind of a rainy day fund where we can go out and we can go get somebody who can help our team and not have to rely on the young guys. Well, here you go. Go get Spencer Turnbull. Give them a million bucks. And then once Kirby is ready, Turnbull pitch very well out of the Phillies bullpen last year. Just slide them right there. It's not like you can't DFA Seth Martinez.

So I think the actual answer to the question is, the Mariners should just go get Turnbull or Smiley or whatever, go get somebody. But because they're probably not going to do that because Mariners, I would be shocked if Hancock didn't get the ball. And I hope it's only for one or two times. At that point, it's like fine, I guess, whatever. I understand the argument against him versus Evans in the short term. But if I were making the decision and I wasn't allowed to go get Turnbull, I would start Evans just because I want to ride the upside. Hear me out.

Hear me out. Hear me out. We ramp this thing up a little bit. Shantaro Fujimami goes back to start. And just ride it out. So they would be. Who says no? He would be pitching against the tigers.

I would fear for the safety of the likes of Glaver Torres, Kerry Carpenter. They screwed us last year. Who cares? That was another thing we watched at spring training. He's throwing not just in those games, but on the backfields. And they put up like the wooden.

mannequins on both sides for the left-hand and right-handed hitter. And it looked on one of them. I mean, it looked a little like Newk La Lush. I'm not going to lie. I think I turned to Jay and said, I don't think you could pay me to get in that box against them. I mean, his first appearance of the spring against the Diamondbacks, we saw the whole Shintaro Fujidami experience. Like, he was blown fastballs by guys, and then he

nearly took Gabriel Moreno's head off. Yeah. and struck out the next guy on a nasty slide. And then struck out the next guy. After a four-pitch walk, by the way. Yeah, yep. I do feel like one way or another, the Mariners, if they keep a bunch of these guys from camp,

they will have a bunch of intriguing arms in AAA. I feel like. Whether it's, like, when everybody's healthy in this bullpen, once Sprash and Taylor get back, if they keep everybody, you send Fujinami there and he sticks in the org, and if, like, amina's there and if we'll Klein's there there's some like there's some interesting bullpen options

that'll be down there all right so that's going to do it for our show thank you so much for joining us here on the lockdown mirrors podcast and thank you again to tj and lal for hopping on with us be sure to check out their podcast the marine layer podcast available on youtube wherever you get your podcast just like us for colby pat node i'm tiding gzalas be sure give us a follow on twitter at l o underscore mirrors you can follow me at tiding gzalus and colby at cpette 11 that's cpat 1 1 1 we're also on blue sky you can follow me at TDG, Colby at MLB Colby in the show at Lockdown Merrers. Have yourself a beautiful baseball day and we'll see you next time. Peace.