Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Alert: Patriots Injury Concerns Emerge? | Veteran Doomed?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Two critical vets on the offensive side sit out practice and we've got some concerns. That's where we start on this episode of Lockdown Patriots. You are Locked on Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked on Podcasts Network, your team every day. What's up, Patriots fans? I'm your host Nick Cattels born and raised in New England, also host of the Everything Packers. podcast co-host of the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick Cattels and a sports talk show host veteran on today's episode a once proud playmaker has fallen precipitously on the depth chart also there's some hope that the O line is showing signs of improvement but first two guys you don't want to see go down go missing we appreciate you joining the show making us your first listen

Starting point is 00:00:54 and for being an everydayer the lockdown Patriots podcast a proud partner the lockdown podcast work your team every day. The Patriots have dealt with some injury issues already through camp. And this happens to every team in the league, as we know. You've got to try to stay healthy. It's the number one thing when you talk about a violent physical game. And the injury issues we've seen absolutely happen at the cornerback position, Christian Gonzalez, Carlton Davis, Marcellus Dyle tore his ACL.

Starting point is 00:01:26 He's done for the year. And some concerns on the other side. side of the ball are now creeping in to my thought process. And I begin with Hunter Henry because Hunter Henry did not practice on Monday. Here's the latest. Taylor Kyle's posted that G. Scott is repping with the starting offense behind Jack Westover and Austin Hooper. So Scott was out there.

Starting point is 00:01:54 Westover was out there. Hooper was out there. Henry was not out there. Now, hopefully Hunter Henry is okay. This could be some simple management. The team is traveling on Tuesday, joint practices coming up against the Vikings later this week. Henry was out there during Sunday's practice. So maybe this is just simply management.

Starting point is 00:02:18 We have to keep that out there as a possibility because we know. Vrable has been handling a lot of the veterans in a certain way. So maybe this is just managing. no big deal. And I certainly hope that's the case. I hope that Henry is okay physically because if Henry is not out there, we're talking about Austin Hooper and bust. Patriots have no depth that tight end. I know Jaheem Bell caught a pass against Washington in the first preseason game. He took for what, 18, 20 yards. They don't have depth. They do not have experienced depth.

Starting point is 00:02:58 Henry, Hooper, and then what else you got? If you take Henry out of the equation, you've got a situation that to me is concerning at a very critical position. Let's not forget, Henry is a Drake May binky. May love throwing the football to Henry last year. He loved throwing the football to Henry in high leverage situations. Third downs, red zone area.

Starting point is 00:03:23 Drake May counts on Hunter Henry. He depends on him. He believes in him. If you take Henry away from May, that could be a problem. That's the first thought beyond just the depth issue. Third down offense takes a hit. Red zone offense takes a hit. Then you get to the point where Josh McDaniels, he loves two tight end.

Starting point is 00:03:48 He loves two tight end personnel against Washington in the first preseason game. They started, this offense started with 22 personnel. And McDaniels has run a lot of two tight end personnel during this camp. It's rather obvious that he's going to rely on two tight end sets a decent amount this season. And not only does McDaniels love throwing to the tight ends, as we know, especially down the scene, but he also wants them out there so the Patriots can play big so they can run the football. And we discussed on yesterday's episode, the Patriots are going to run the ball. That's what the history of these coaches tell us, and that's what that game against Washington tells us.

Starting point is 00:04:32 If you take out Henry, that's an issue not only past catching wise, but also creating some space for your backs because Henry's a pretty good blocker. So we'll keep an eye out on that. But it wasn't only Hunter Henry's absence that has caused some concerns. to creep in on the offensive side. The other part of this is Ramandre Stevenson has missed both practices so far this week. He missed Sunday. He missed Monday. Now, this could just be management, as I just mentioned with Henry, the way of Rabel's handling players, but back-to-back days off, I would find that more unlikely. I could believe that Henry's out for a day, just taking a breath, getting a reset before traveling to Minnesota.

Starting point is 00:05:21 But back-to-back days for Ramadre, tough to believe. And when you look at Ramadre Stevenson on this debt chart, his spot is even more critical now. Lynn Larison, as we found out over the weekend, he's done for the year. Larison placed on IR, apparently broke his foot against Washington, continued to play on it. I wouldn't advise that to anybody out there. Larison, done for the year with a broken foot. Terrell Jennings, who was on the roster last year, camp, going through stuff. Jennings left practice on Monday early.

Starting point is 00:05:58 So he might be dealing with something. The guy that the Patriots brought in to replace Land Larison, Dineric Prince, he didn't practice on Monday. So within the last three or four days, you've lost Larison. Stevenson hasn't practiced. You have Jennings leaving early. You have Prince not practicing. And that puts a lot of pressure, puts a lot of the onus on Antonio Gibson, and also Trayvion Henderson.

Starting point is 00:06:30 And when you look at Gibson's usage last couple of years, he has not been an every down back. Far from it. Last year, 143 touches for the Patriots. I thought they could have used them more in the passing game. I digress. back in 2023, he had about 115 touches. So when you talk about Gibson, you most likely want to hover around 130,

Starting point is 00:06:54 140 touches for him in 2025. If you have any kind of issue with Stevenson and the rest of the backfield here, and you have to use Gibson more, that might make him less impactful. And then you've got to be concerned about him getting injured. And you get to Trayvion Henderson as explosive and great he's been during camp,

Starting point is 00:07:15 as fun as Friday night was against Washington, as excited as I am for Henderson and believe that he can be a game-changing player for this offense. All of that is true. But what is also true is Henderson was at his best when he was able to take a breath at Ohio State. When Junkins was brought in and Henderson split the touches with Junkins,

Starting point is 00:07:41 you saw a different Henderson. He was actually healthy. He's been bothered by injuries in the past. He's not the biggest dude. So I don't know if you want Gibson or Henderson being a bell cow. And if you got to split the touches between those guys, it's still going to be a significant amount of touches. So Stevenson's got his fumble problems.

Starting point is 00:08:05 He might end up not starting eventually if he continues to fumble the football, but don't get it twisted. Stevenson was part of this. And when you can lean on Stevenson a little bit, it means you lean less on Gibson and Henderson, who both are better off splitting time. And that's not even to mention the fact that both Gibson and Henderson are expected to be a part of special teams. And we saw that against Washington. Both guys had huge returns in the kickoff game.

Starting point is 00:08:36 Henderson's touchdown, and Gibson went 60 plus yards on his kick return. So if you've got to utilize Gibson and Henderson more at running back, that means you might not be able to utilize them as much on special teams, which impacts the team overall. So running back could be an issue if Stevenson is out for any long period of time. And the last note here, DJ James, who left practice early on Sunday, he did not practice on Monday. And I already talked about for a minute the injury status of the cornerback position

Starting point is 00:09:14 with the injuries you've already had in camp. And now James, who's had a great camp, he's dinged up. Now, the cornerback depth has looked good. The guys that are deep on the bench, they've looked pretty good when given opportunities. How much of that has been the fact that they're good? How much of that has been the competition? It's not like Washington has a bunch of. bunch of great receivers you're dealing with.

Starting point is 00:09:38 We might have to see. Now, good news, the good news was Carlton Davis practiced again on Monday. So back-to-back practices for Davis as he ramps up from Minnesota. That is a step in a positive direction for him and a step in the right direction for the team overall and this defense. So hopefully Davis stays healthy. Alex Austin has battled injuries in the past. You start to look around in some of these spots.

Starting point is 00:10:08 I mean, this roster, it's better than it was in 2024, but we're not talking about a roster that is deep at every position. We're not talking about a 12 or 13 win kind of roster here. So all these injuries, the trickle-down effect, it's real. All right, well, the new defense, some vets were bound to struggle. One of those vets looks to have officially been benched. That's next. As we continue with today's episode of Lockdown Patriots,

Starting point is 00:10:33 part of the Lockdown Podcast. network, your team every day. This episode is presented by Yahoo! Fantasy. It's the best time of the year. NFL kickoff is almost here, and that means fantasy football season is back in full swing. And this year, Yahoo! Fantasy is turning things up with a fantasy football experience like never before.

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Starting point is 00:12:14 Dugger was buried behind other dudes Taylor Kyle's from CLNS. He posted Jalen Hawkins and Gibral peppers are the top safeties again for this walkthrough. Woodson is serving as the third safety ahead of Dugger. And if you're wondering, the practice on Monday was like a regular season practice going against scout teams working off of cards this was a full on prep for the minnesota vikings this was the coaching staff preparing this team like it was a regular season week getting ready to go on the road to play a team in a game that actually matters and so the fact that dougar was behind hawkins peppers and watson during a practice that was handled like a regular season practice, that should tell us, Dugger, he's on the bench right now.

Starting point is 00:13:05 He's on the bench. Phil Perry posted, Dugger looks like a reserve safety. Was a while before Dugger got reps against the scout team offense. When Dugger did get reps, it was brief. And get this, Dugger was out there with Miles Battle and Kobe Minor. Dugger was reppping at safety when you had Mr. Irrelevant at cornerback. speaks volumes. He's on a bench.

Starting point is 00:13:32 Hawkins, Peppers, Woodson, all in earlier than Dugger Perry writes, as Kyle's did. So we've got a situation here where one of your veterans looks like he has taken a backseat. And some of the questions about Dugger and whether or not he was going to fit within this defensive system,

Starting point is 00:13:53 they have rare their ugly head for Dugger. Because when you look at, you know, Peppers and you question, can you really have Peppers and Dugger on the field at the same time? Now, I know we saw that during the Bill Belichick era. And we saw some of that last year. And you know, you could look at Dugger and say, well, maybe it was the injury that kind of held him back. And you didn't really see enough of Peppers and Dugger together in 2024 because peppers, the off field stuff, Dugger, the injury stuff. But we've been asking this question for a couple of years now, haven't we? Can you actually survive with both Peppers and Dugger playing

Starting point is 00:14:27 on the field at the same time? When it comes to Dugger, he has had coverage limitations for years. He has not been very good covering guys. And when you ask him to cover one-on-one, he can't consistently do the job. Now, Greg Bedard at Boston Sports Journal wrote about Duggar and what he saw on the film from that Washington preseason game. And Bader wrote Dugger looked slow and not good when he allowed Sam Hartman to get by him to the outside on a scramble, despite having two teammates in pursuit. But Dard writes, we've been documenting this for a while. It's getting tougher to make the case for Dugger being on this team.

Starting point is 00:15:09 And when you look at Vrabel, you look at Williams, they emphasize versatility in their defense. They emphasize versatility at the safety spot. And when you have Dugger who can't cover. well, consistently enough, you question his ability to bring that versatility to this defense. And Dugger just doesn't feel like he's a Vrable guy to a point. Like if you look at Peppers, Peppers fit on the field. Peppers is more versatile than Dugger. Peppers is better than Dugger in coverage.

Starting point is 00:15:43 Peppers before last year, analytically, if you look at pro football focus, has been one of the better safeties in all of football. So you look at Peppers and his fit off the bat out of the shoot is better with Vrable and Williams than Dugger. You also look at Pepper's mentality, the way he talks, the way he walks, just carries himself different. And he has somebody who loves the physical style, loves the violent style of football, and somebody who I think has a leadership voice. He might not end up being a captain for this coaching staff. maybe he does. Maybe he doesn't. But we know he has been looked at as a leader for the past couple of years for this team going into the seasons.

Starting point is 00:16:27 And he's somebody who will keep guys accountable. He's somebody that has a rather large and loud voice in the locker room doesn't feel like Dugger carries that same kind of impact. So not just on the field, but off the field, it feels like Peppers is a much better fit. And if you don't think you can play both guys, if both guys, if it's not, you know, a possibility within this defense and it feels like it's not, then I think it's rather obvious that Dugger's going to be the guy on the outside looking in, and that's why he's there right now. And then you throw Craig Woodson into the mix, and it's just a much bigger challenge.

Starting point is 00:17:03 We talked about that versatility just a moment ago. Mike Giardy, B.S.J wrote the following about Dugger and Woodson. The scheme asks its safeties to play more one-on-one coverage. Woodson's fit has been relatively seamless, Giardy writes. He's looked every bit apart of a rising player since we got our first glimpse of the University of California product in the spring. That's carried over into full pads when, let's face it, the game becomes more difficult. And let's talk versatility. Giardy writes, Woodson lined up deep safety, split safety, close the line of scrimmage,

Starting point is 00:17:38 tallied a quarterback pressure in the preseason opener. And we've said this time and again with Woodson early in camp at OTA's mandatory minicamp, rookie minicamp, he just seems to be in the right place at the right time according to those who are on the ground watching these practices. I mean, when you compare that to Dugger, who way too many times I think the coaching staff has seen the back of the Dugger jersey as he's chasing down a receiver, 30 yards, 40 yards downfield. Woodson, not so much the case. And it leads me to this. Could it be possible that Dugger eventually gets to a position change? I don't think you can completely write it off.

Starting point is 00:18:24 Now, is it unlikely to make that change in the middle of August? Of course. Could this be more, hey, we might give them a chance in 2026 at a new position? Probably. But I don't think it's nuts with the, way that he has struggled in this camp and the fact that he doesn't seem to be a great fit at safety, I do wonder if you could try him at linebacker. Vrable and Williams, they don't mind dealing with, you know, lighter linebackers.

Starting point is 00:18:57 Vrable's talked about it during this camp. He doesn't think size is as much of an issue at that position as it used to be. So it's not crazy. If you look at Dugger, he's 61220. Robert Spillane 61229. Can you put 5 to 10 pounds on Dugger? Maybe. Maybe he fits that Marte Mapu spot.

Starting point is 00:19:20 Maybe you say, hey, we thought that it would work with Mapu. Hasn't quite worked with him. Maybe we tried Dugger. But of course, even if you put Dugger at linebacker, you're going to have issues with him covering guys. You're going to have issues with him trying to stick with tight ends. You're going to have issues with teams, you know, finding him in mismatches with running backs and slot receivers and spreading out the defense and putting Dugger on an

Starting point is 00:19:49 island. So I don't think that is a solution. An end-all be-all. I can see them trying it. I'm not sold it to work. And I just feel like Dugger's going to be gone. When this year is over, he's going to be gone. I don't think they get rid of him right now because of the dead money. I think they would trade him this second if they could get anything for him. But I think that contract will scare off other teams. I think his play last year and his play during this camp is just not good enough and what he looked like against Washington in the first preseason game. I don't think any team's going to jump on the chance to trade for Kyle Dugger. But the more this camp goes on, the closer we get to the season, the more it feels like a

Starting point is 00:20:36 that Dugger is not going to be a part of this defense. He might be on the roster standing on the sidelines, but he's not going to be out there on the field. The top pick keeps it together. A vet steps up and two youngans might actually be gems. Oline Talk next as we continue with today's episode of Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. August 26th is officially Fandul.

Starting point is 00:21:06 Futures Day. A brand new holiday for football fans who live for bold predictions and preseason hunches. I said it before I love football futures. That's where I usually spend my time on Fandu right before the season. And for just 24 hours, Fandul is giving you deals on NFL season predictions. So whether you're calling your MVP, eyeing a long shot division winner, or ready to crown your Super Bowl champ before week one even kicks off. This, my friends, is your moment, August 26. Take a flyer on the MVP. race. You know, maybe, I don't know if this is a flyer, but maybe this is the year Mahomes reclaims his title. Or parlay your division winner Dark Horses. Do you believe in J.J. McCarthy?

Starting point is 00:21:46 If you do, Vikings at plus 300 in the NFC North, pretty interesting to take a look at. Maybe you just crown a champion. Broncos at plus 2,600. Take a shot. Visit the Fandul app today and start planning your future bets now because Futures Day is one day and one day only, August 26th. Fan duel. Play your game. During yesterday's episode, we discussed Josh McDaniels and the idea that he's scheming around this offensive line early in camp and throughout the first preseason game. Gave you reasons why that was. You could check out that episode. But are there signs of hope for this offensive line? Could there be actual signs of hope for those five guys up front. Now, I am not an offensive line guru. I do not consider myself an

Starting point is 00:22:39 offensive line expert by any stretch, but one of the guys that does a lot of work on the offensive line and writing about them is Greg Bedard. And Greg Bedard does give us a little bit of hope here. First, he writes about Garrett Bradbury and what he saw during the first preseason game. Bedard writes, the most positive and surprising performance on the line was by Bradbury. He had two outstanding run blocks and was clean in the past game. If Garrett Bradbury could just be good, it is huge. It would have such a significant impact on this team and on this offense.

Starting point is 00:23:17 If he was just good, he doesn't have to be great. If he's good, if he's a solid starting center in 2025, it is such a big step and lift for this offense. it would be less of a burden on Jared Wilson because Wilson would not have to worry about, man, Garrett's getting beat all the time. And now he starts thinking about Bradbury's guy instead of his assignment right in front of him.

Starting point is 00:23:44 And Wilson, he's got a lot on the plate. He's got to show continued improvement. Bedard wrote about Wilson and what he saw against Washington. Wilson struggled. Butard wrote that Wilson really struggled in his 14 snaps with five minus plays. I thought he looked pretty good. Again, I'm not an offensive line guru.

Starting point is 00:24:04 Bedard writes, this surprised me because he's been rock solid in camp. There was some good work on duo blocks between the two rookies, but there were some technique issues that will need to be cleaned up with Wilson, and he is sort of a novice at this position. This was good teach tape for Wilson, who physically looked like he belonged. He just has a lot of stuff to clean up. So, but Dard says, look, he had five minus plays. according to Greg's grading system.

Starting point is 00:24:30 However, it wasn't that he was physically outmatched. It was more the looks of a rookie trying to feel his way around and trying to figure things out. Technique issues, little detailed things. And that's why Bedard calls it a teach tape. And you would think, I'm pretty confident with Wilson's IQ being sky high, super smart guy, the way he handled his time away from the field during OTAs and minicamp,

Starting point is 00:25:00 the fact that he came back at the beginning of camp ready to go to the point where within four or five days he was moved to starting left guard, it makes me feel like he's going to go do the homework. He's going to take a look at the film. He's going to talk to his coaches, maybe all three of the offensive line coaches on this staff. He's going to put the work in. He's going to figure this thing out.

Starting point is 00:25:21 So some tough sledding, according to Bedard, for Wilson in his first official start against an NFL team in that first preseason game. So if Bradbury gets it going, if he's solid, if he's good, if he gives you what he gave you against the commanders, then that means less burden on Jared Wilson to be great off the bat or really good off the bat. because if Bradbury's leaky, then you're looking at Wilson. If Wilson's having some issues, the pressure starts to ramp up a little bit on the rookie. He starts thinking too much. Now, some of the easy and obvious calls here is if Bradbury is giving you solid football, then you're less concerned about the interior defensive line pass rush, which is big because of how that would impact Drake May.

Starting point is 00:26:14 And some of the things that we've seen from May through his rookie season, even on Friday night against Washington with that fumble, you know, the less scattered, the less he's kind of scrambling around, the better off you're going to be. If Bradbury is solid, then the run game should be solid. I do think the Patriots offensive line is very good when it comes to blocking the run. I do think they're going to have a productive run game if they can stay healthy at the position. But I do think you look at all five guys, Campbell, really good run blocker.

Starting point is 00:26:46 Wilson has shown a tendency to be good. Bradbury is known as a pretty good run blocker, and according to Bedard was terrific against Washington. Owenu can run block. Morgan Moses is good. So the run game. But Minnesota is going to be a huge challenge for Bradbury because they've got big interior defensive linemen, talented guys.

Starting point is 00:27:09 It's going to be a difficult assignment for Bradbury. If Bradbury can hold the zone, and, of course, he's going against Minnesota, who has the book on him because that's where he played last. That's his only stop in the NFL before the Pats. So they'll have the book on Bradbury. So intriguing to watch him this week in the joint practices and if he plays on Saturday. How about Will Campbell, you ask? I know many of you are saying, what about Campbell?

Starting point is 00:27:35 Campbell was good. Badaar wrote Campbell was very solid against Washington outside that sack fumble play. Certainly finished well at times. You can tell Campbell is well-schooled. and his fundamentals are sound compared to Wilson. Campbell knows how to play, just needs to keep learning. So thumbs up for Will Campbell in the first preseason game. And we keep talking about, oh, you know, Campbell, the one-on-ones, he's at a tough time.

Starting point is 00:28:01 I will continue to remind people. The most important thing are team reps, team reps, that's what matters most. You're not going to be going one-on-one out there with nobody next to you on Sunday. you're going to be in the team dynamic. And Campbell has consistently been good during the team reps. And if you tell me that you've got, you know, at least average pass protection from Campbell, and you think he's going to be a great,

Starting point is 00:28:30 maybe even elite run blocker, then he should be a solid starting left tackle for the next 10 years. He doesn't have to be great in past protection if he's good, if he's average and then gives you that element in the run game where he's just an absolute mall. and terrific in that phase of offense. You're talking about a guy who's going to be rock solid for 10, 12, 14 years at left tackle. Makes me very happy if that's the case.

Starting point is 00:28:57 All right. I want to mention two more guys. Maybe some diamonds found. Marcus Bryant steps up. And Bedard hasn't been necessarily sold on Bryant, but he did right. Bryant also opened his eyes a bit more as he had a plus pass block, two run blocks. did allow half of stuff in a hurry. But Bedard says Bryant was solid.

Starting point is 00:29:21 Vrable, before practice on Sunday, said, you know, he thinks that there's a lot of good football in front of Marcus Bryant. Evan Lazzar wrote, Vrable credits Bryant with improving his pad level over the course of the padded practices in camp. If Marcus Bryant can prove to be a swing tackle this year, I mean, you talk about a big time development. I don't know if he's going to be, you know,

Starting point is 00:29:45 starting caliber year one or even year two. But if you feel good enough about him to be a backup, good enough about him to be your swing tackle to find that guy in the seventh round, that would be a terrific fine by the scouting department in the front office. Another guy I want to mention pretty much an unknown, Mackay Butler. Bedard wrote, of the reserves, I thought Butler looked surprisingly capable and strong. Perhaps it's not a coincidence that he suddenly got second team reps today. And that was on Monday's practice.

Starting point is 00:30:17 So, you know, when you look at what's going on, when you look at how all of this is unfolding, you feel pretty good about Campbell. You might be feeling better about Bradbury. Owenu's been fine. Moses has been fine. Maybe you got a little bit of a find with Mackay Butler. Brian stepping up to possibly fill a tackle position, a swing tackle. tackle position.

Starting point is 00:30:43 If Wilson just improves and gets better, learn some technique things, maybe we're talking about something here. Maybe. We also have to give credit to the fact that, you know, some of these other guards on the roster just haven't shown up consistently. Strange, Leiden Robinson, City, so is dealing with health. Caden Wallace was dealing with a health situation as he's making the transition. Tyrese Robinson's been on and off.

Starting point is 00:31:09 but some positive signs against Washington from the O line. Some positives to take away. That wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriots. Reach out to me on Twitter, Nick C Radio. Don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube channel. Don't forget to hit that thumbs up and subscribe as well. Always helps us out. Thank you for being an everydayer.

Starting point is 00:31:31 Thank you for listening to Lockdown Patriots. Check out Lockdown Betts with Sterling and Rogers, MLB Locks. We talked about football futures. Check those guys out. Find lockdown bets on YouTube wherever you listen to your podcasts. Have a great day. We're going to see you tomorrow.

Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Alert: Patriots Injury Concerns Emerge? | Veteran Doomed?

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