Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Backs by Popular Demand: Patriots Running Backs, Full Backs and Defensive Backs - 7/22/2020

Episode Date: July 22, 2020

The NFL Preseason slate is down to zero games. Rosters will soon be reduced to 80 players to begin training camp. On the cusp of a potentially busy week in Foxboro, host Mike D’Abate is joined by Thomas “Murph; Murphy. The duo discuss the impact of roster reductions on the positional battles at running back, fullback and the cornerbacks and safeties in the New England Patriots defensive backfield. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Patriots fans, you are now locked in to the Locked On Patriots Podcast. I'm going to show you how to make a beautiful and beautiful flower. I'm going to use a small flower pot. I'm going to use a small pot Hello to all of you Foxborough faithful. It is Wednesday, July 22nd, 2020, and today's theme is backs by popular demand here on the Lockdown Patriots Podcast, your daily home for news notes and analysis infused with the occasional opinion on your six-time Super Bowl champions, the New England Patriots. What's happening, Patriots Nation?

My name is Mike DeBate, your host of the Lockdown Patriots Podcast, which of course is a proud part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. And because it's your team every day, that means your questions, folks, your comments, your feedback, very much appreciated and very much encouraged. Feel free to share that feedback at any time by reaching out to me and following me on Twitter at MDABATEFPC. And while you're out there roaming about through the Twitterverse, please be sure to follow the Locked On Patriots account as well at LO underscore Patriots.

Pats fans, we are less than one week away from the official opening of training camp at which your New England Patriots will give us our first look at the potential product on the field for the upcoming 2020 season. Now yesterday here on the pod, Steve Balistrieri of Patsfans.com joined me and we talked about at the time the potential cancellation for the 2020 NFL preseason. We also discussed the difficulties that COVID-19 testing would provide for some of the players on the roster. And we also provided a little bit of a preview of the tight end and defensive line positions.

Well, yesterday evening, the NFL confirmed what we had been expecting for quite some time. The 2020 preseason slate has been eliminated. No preseason games will take place this year, and that will mean a great number of changes for the way teams do business and also the official rosters of all 32 NFL teams, folks, not just the Patriots. But this is Locked On, Patriots. That's our focus. We view everything with a Foxborough filter, and we'll continue to do that right here today because as i said to open the pod today is

backs by popular demand that means running backs full backs and defensive backs and of course last but certainly not least back in the hot seat today making his triumphant return after a one week absence is our main green man thomas murphy we all love the opportunity for crossover week but we missed murph and he returns today to lend his green wisdom and counsel on the fate of the Patriots running backs core. Who does he see emerging as a potential dark horse candidate for a roster spot this year in Foxborough? We'll talk a little fullbacks.

Danny Vitale, Jakob Johnson. Maybe even sprinkling in a little Dalton Keene and Rex Burkhead into that conversation. And last but certainly not least, the arguable strength of this Patriots roster. The defensive backfield, the secondary, the cornerbacks, some of the best in the league. When it comes to the best corner in the NFL, we got him folks. 2019 Defensive Player of the Year Stephon Gilmore. But his supporting cast is pretty stellar as well, and we'll break down exactly who we believe will be cornerbacks 2, 3, and beyond. And finally, that rotational safety position vacated by the now-Detroit Lion Deron Harmon is up for grabs.

Who do we feel can step into the role? Well, Murph and I will be discussing all of this and more as we welcome Murph back to his weekly guest shot here on the Locked On Patriots podcast, and we talk all things backs on Backs by Popular Demand. So settle in, folks. An exciting show for you on tap. And in just a moment, we will whisk you away to some green wisdom and counsel from none other than the Count of Murphy Fisto himself, my main man Murph.

But each and every day, the NFL continues to give us more information on COVID-19 testing, the on-time opening of training camp, and exactly what that means for the players. So I'd be remiss if I didn't share some of that information with you. And I already alluded to some of it in the opening of today's podcast. At the conclusion of a conference call between the NFL and the NFL Players Association yesterday evening, both entities announced that no preseason games would indeed be played in 2020. We alluded to this yesterday, we long expected it, and now it looks like it has come to final fruition. And again, folks, this is very significant because the chance to evaluate players,

especially players on the roster bubble or undrafted free agents, is going to be very difficult without any type of in-game action, even if it is preseason. Tell you what, we'll get back to that one in a moment. The Players Union also announced that they're still pushing for a longer ramp-up period in camp, meaning that players want more time to become acclimated to getting back into playing shape. And there are also ongoing negotiations on reaching agreements both on voluntary and high-risk opt-outs, meaning that players that want to opt out the season will be able to do so legally and with as little red tape as possible, and also a general agreement on the stipend if games are lost.

Probably the biggest news to drop from the NFL and the NFL Players Association yesterday is that rosters are expected to be reduced to 80 to start training camp. Now, the vast majority, if not all NFL rosters, are at about 90 right now. That includes your New England Patriots. That would essentially mean that 10 players would need to be dropped off of the roster prior to the start of training camp next week. That means a very busy week coming up in the NFL, and Foxborough is no different, folks. Every collective sharp eye in Patriots Nation is going to be on the transaction wire next week.

Who might be on the chopping block? Will it be mostly undrafted free agents, or might the Patriots part with a veteran or two? Look, there's no question that such a move makes sense from a player safety perspective, but there is an unfortunate side to this as well, and it's a pretty big one. Ultimately, it's going to end up costing more than 300 players their jobs this offseason. I do understand the old adage about drastic times calling for drastic measures, but a roster reduction of this size heading into training camp definitely is a drastic measure, even if it's a necessary one. The question on everybody's mind here is, how does this affect your New England Patriots? We all know that this team is no stranger to making tough roster decisions,

and they have some tough ones to make between now and cut-down day. The Patriots currently have 91 players under contract. One of those, credit to my good friend, the Top Gun himself, Miguel Benzon, is fullback Jakob Johnson. He doesn't count against the Patriots' 90-man roster because of the international exemption. And keep that in mind, folks, because Murph and I will be discussing that in just a moment. But nevertheless, there is still a very good chance that the team will still have to part with at least 10, maybe even 11 players between now and next Tuesday.

Now, keep note of the fact, folks, that we're still waiting on decisions as to how this will affect practice squads or even a separate standby list, which I know there's a lot of social media buzz that some of these players could be put on a standby list. Right now, the answers to those questions are still outstanding. And again, folks, as I learn more, I will be sure to bring you the very latest right here on Locked On Patriots. So taking all that under account, knowing that a roster crunch is likely coming to New England, what does that mean for two of its most marquee positions on the depth chart,

the running backs and the defensive backs? Well, folks, to answer those questions and more, my good friend Thomas Murphy is about to join me right here on the hot seat as we bring you Backs by Popular Demand when the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. Patriots fans, the NFL preseason slate is down to zero. Rosters to begin training camp will soon be down to 80. And this has the potential to be a very busy week in Foxborough. And my guest today has some wisdom and counsel to lend on this subject.

In fact, you might call today has some wisdom and counsel to lend on this subject. In fact, you might call it some green wisdom and counsel. That's right, Locked On Patriots fans. Back by popular demand, your favorite and mine, my benefactor in this business, the Count of Murphy Fisto himself, the legendary Thomas Murphy, is back for his weekly

appearance here on the Locked On Patriots podcast. Thank you once again for coming to me in friendship and joining me today, Don Murph. Always my pleasure, my friend. Always my pleasure. Last week just felt wrong. Felt wrong. I loved every single show and every single crossover episode it did. But there was an empty part in my heart.

And that was because I wasn't invited. It was far too long. It was far too long of a break to have in between Murph appearances. We try to get you in once a week, and now that we're nearing training camp and we're nearing action returning to the field, you can definitely bet that weekly spot is yours. And I'm psyched to have you back here in your embroidered guest chair.

And, you know, for us, for us fans of Locked On Patriots, for myself included, that's, you know, super, because we got lots to talk about, huh? Yeah, yeah, I love that quote. Marmalard, he's a dead man. But all right, enough about Animal House, folks. Let's talk business. Murph, last night the NFL confirmed what we had been expecting for

days now uh zero pre-season games roster sizes to begin training camp will be down to 80 so we've got some work to do my friend here over the next few days as do your New England Patriots folks and conventional wisdom says that NFL teams will just cut loose their undrafted free agents there's minimal to no impact on the salary cap for doing that. And from a talent perspective, we can't exactly miss what you don't know. But the Patriots are far from being a conventional team. I don't think it's going to be quite that simple. So in keeping with the week's theme that we have going here on Locked On Patriots, I thought we'd continue to take a second look at some of the positional battles that we might see. And seeing that you're back this week

here on Locked On Patriots, and you make backs famous, my friend, battles that we might see. And seeing that you're back this week here on Locked On Patriots and you make backs famous, my friend, I thought we might spend some time starting with the running backs and maybe even a fullback or two. So when you're here, bud, we usually spend time in the running back room for two reasons, folks. One, Murph is contractually obligated to talk about Brandon Bolden. I have a responsibility to bring that to the fold.

No, folks, I'm kidding. I am kidding. Me familiar. The reason why. Absolutely. That's right. Yep. Familiar.

Never take sides with anyone against the family again. Right. But in any case, the real reason is that your experience as a lineman, your insight that you provide in this area, leads you to see things that the average analyst doesn't see and that is the runner's responsibility to use the blocks and the sets given to them by the defensive by the offensive line excuse me now I believe there are roster locks in this depth chart uh I'd say much to the degree much the chagrin of a certain afternoon drive time show. Sonny Michel is a lock to make this team.

James White is a lock to make this team. I'm saying it, folks. Brandon Bolden is a lock to make this team. But beyond that, I think there is some speculation. And that means a potential battle for the fourth spot on that depth chart. The big question here is whether the Patriots are going to carry four or five defensive backs. If it's four, I think Damian Harris is the clear-cut choice, and that's even after the Rex Burkhead reworking of the contract. If they carry five, though, I think Rex is much more palatable

here than he was a few weeks before he signed that deal or that agreement to restructure the final year of his contract. To me, that could mean that J.J. Taylor would be the likely cut here. I don't think that's a hot take. In fact, I'd say that I'm probably in the majority for feeling that way. But Don Murph, I ask you today, come to us in friendship. Do you believe that a case can be made to keep Taylor over Burkhead on this roster? And how do you see the Patriots running back shaking out even after the roster cuts and as we advance toward training camp? Well, first, I'd like to thank you for, you know, that very polite way of saying Murph, you were a short, fat guy and you hiked the ball a lot. Yes, people, contrary to popular belief, I am not 11 feet tall, green or weigh 1400 pounds. Don't believe

that, folks. But I was I was an offensive lineman my entire life, and I did hike the ball my entire life. And, you know, to get back to your amazing question, no, I really don't think that Rex Burkhead is a lock to make this team. But where he stands out, where others do not, where Damian Harris himself does not, is what he brings to the special teams unit. If you are not going to be in every down back, if you are not going to be an important part of this running back rotation and you cannot do things on, you cannot be counted on several special teams coverage units.

I don't mean running back punts. I don't mean running back kicks, ladies and gentlemen. I mean getting out there and blocking and knowing your job and how to keep a lane. It is imperative that you are able to do that for Bill Belichick. These people are rated much higher here in New England than they are anywhere else, and this is something that people tend to forget when talking about the Patriots dynasty is how great special teams play affects a team as a whole. There are three phases to this game, offense, defense, and special. play affects a team as a whole. You know, there are three phases of this game, offense, defense, and special.

And special is not there just because these guys take a short bus to school, and it's because there are special talents that are able to do many, many things. And Damian Harris has not shown that. And I talked about that yesterday on One Patriot's Place with my partner, Steve Balistrieri, who also stopped by here, from what I hear. He did? And Evan Lazar from CLNS Media, a good friend of both of ours. And Evan brought this point up, and I wholeheartedly agree with him, that Damian Harris himself is not a lock to be on this team. And, you know, once again, Bill could set himself up for,

why the hell did you draft this guy when he's never even played and you've cut him? But there are other guys on this roster that could go before Harris. I really want to see him because he is that dual threat bat. He is that Rex Burkhead kind of guy. But if he's going to push Rex Burkhead into the abyss of former Patriots players who came in here, grabbed a couple of rings, and then were never heard of again, he's going to have to perform on special teams. I agree with you. I think that's a great point made by Evan. Look, Damian Harris has a lot of promise, but in terms of productivity on the field,

we've yet to see it. And in a year such as this, where you're not going to get preseason games to be able to see what these guys can do in actual game settings, I understand practices are going to take on a whole new level, folks, but it's still practice. I feel like Gallen Iverson would talk about practice. I mean, seriously, folks, really, I mean, it's going to be a little bit different in terms of seeing what these guys can do on the field. Harris should push for early down snaps. And I think that's going to be the case, especially if there's any question on Sony Michelle's health. I'll get to that point in a minute.

But being able to push a guy like Rex Burkhead is something that Damian Harris is going to have to come out and show a lot. I know from guys that I've talked to that are close to the team, you and I run in the same circles. We know there are a lot of guys in that locker room and on that staff that really have a lot of hope and a lot of faith in what Damian Harris can bring to the table. So I'm looking forward to seeing it again. That dual threat back that you mentioned is someone that I think can really endear himself to Bill Belichick, Josh McDaniels,

the Patriots fan base, but most of all the team itself. But at the end of the day, the Patriots are going to go with their best fit. They're not going to worry about what teams or what media members or fans are going to say about Damian Harris having to be cut loose. If they feel that the best team that they're going to field is on this practice field is going to be Sands, Damian Harris, then they're going to do it. I don't expect to. I think Harris has the potential to be a wild card this year who really, I think, can push the unit to do it. I don't expect to. I think Harris has the potential to be a wild card this year, who really, I think, can push the unit to new levels. Obviously, James White, one of the best passing down backs in the game. He's a roster lock. He's going to be, I think, probably one of the more prolific members of this running back core. And I still hold out hope for Sonny Michel. I still think that rebounding with health, hopefully good health because we did hear about some of his health

difficulties in the offseason could he possibly begin the season on the pup list it's not looking likely but but anything yeah anything and everything is possible with sony i also think he has the potential to rebound this year with a new fullback and that kind of leads me quite nicely into my next question for you you know buddy some choose to include the fullbacks among the running backs i'm not one of them i think it's its own category if i'm being honest i see more similarities in the fullback to the h-back tight end role than that of a traditional runner but that's just me in that respect i think it makes it more likely that the patriots are going to carry a fullback as more of a hybrid tight end hybrid running back than a traditional runner. I think they carry no more than three tight ends.

Steve and I discussed this yesterday here on the pod. I think that may stretch the running back chart to five. If that's the case, I think that might be good news for Rex Burkett. If that's the case, though, one has to assume that Danny Vitale is going to be the full timetime fullback on this roster but Jakob Johnson is still out there as well what say you on this one my friend because you've got some fullback knowledge uh how do you see this position playing a role this year in the Patriots offense yeah I actually carried the ball as a fullback twice in my lifetime and um so yeah I've got a lot of knowledge there there No, I wholeheartedly agree with you. I don't see the team carrying more than three tight ends.

I could see them going with just the two, with the young guys, and doing what we're talking about here, throwing Rex Burkhead out there. He is capable of doing that. But, no, Vitaly is going to be the guy this year. But we also saw last year what can happen when a fullback in this offense goes down. It completely stalls. Sonny Michel is somebody that is much more comfortable running along behind a fullback than he is going out there and hitting holes on his own.

It's just the game that he has, folks. That's not a knock on him. Every running back that has ever been here has averaged two yards more carry. When they're running behind one of the great full backs that this team has had, it's one of the things that I don't understand why other teams in this copycat league have not picked up on and used more of. Buffalo did for a couple of years. Atlanta did during their good run, and they stupidly let Junior go, and that entire running game just fell apart. But, no, you and I are on the same page here, that Burkhead or Vitale, too, can run out there and play some tight end. And that's the way that this team is going to go.

It is going to be a rock fight this year, people, whether you like it or not. And with a more mobile quarterback, and that's either stidham or cam newton because you have to admit that both of them are more mobile than tom brady is at the age of 42 and probably more so than tom brady was at the age of 18 um is he say this is this is the way things are going to go and uh and no the the fullback position is while they're in the running back room, they are a completely separate entity. Yeah, I agree with you. I think the new dimension that a mobile quarterback like a Cam Newton

or a Jarrett Stidham provides to this team is going to change the complexity of the fullback position a little bit. But ultimately, I don't see radical changes. The Patriots utilize the fullback position a little bit but ultimately I don't see radical changes the Patriots utilize the fullback arguably better than any team in the NFL Vitale comes in four-year veteran a lot of NFL experience so he's been around he's like I say he's been to the puppet show he's seen the strings he knows what to expect he's also a plus receiver and that I think could add a different element to the offense than even James Devlin did, who I absolutely loved in this offense. I think the Patriots will miss him, but I think Danny Vitale can really provide some stability and maybe even a little more excitement in this position.

Jakob Johnson is interesting to me, and you mentioned what happens to this offense when the Patriots, you know, saw both Devlin and Johnson go down last year, Landon Roberts had to take snaps at fullback. It does stall. So you've got to wonder if keeping a guy like Jakob Johnson on the roster is a smart move. Now, one thing that I do want to credit my good friend, our good mutual friend, Miguel Benzon, the Pats cap himself, tweeted out last night that he's going to have that same international exemption designation this summer as he had last summer. So right now, because he's on the international pathway program, folks, not counting against the 90 man roster limit, they don't take their time with Jakob. So I don't expect him to be one of those initial cuts. I got some DMS last night of people that are questioning, Oh, does this mean they're going to cut loose Johnson? I think they go with Vitaly. I don't think so yet, folks. I think they're going to see what they have. And if they like

what they see out of Jakob this year, do not be surprised to see him earn a spot on the 53-man roster. I think he showed some promise last year prior to going down with a shoulder injury. So could get interesting, as it always does in New England. But the fullback position is one that I'd keep a sharp eye on. Just because James Devlin is gone, folks, and he leaves big shoes behind, I think the Patriots have filled that admirably. And don't forget, we also have the element, like you said, of Rex Burkett. Dalton Keene can fill that role at times, too. We've seen him at Virginia Tech fill that H-back or that type of fullback role as part of the tight end set. So all things to keep in mind. Love it.

See, we're so much on the same wavelength, my friend. There's no effort here, folks. It just comes. I assure you, Murph and I do our homework beyond belief. But a lot of the synergy and the like-minded thinking, folks, that's not planned. It's just it comes from us being like-minded, which is why we're such good friends and which is why we love sharing the microphone with each other, buddy.

There you go. Absolutely. Well, we've talked about the offensive backs, but as I said yesterday with our good friend Steve Balistrieri here on the pod, buddy, defense wins championships. And in just a moment, folks, Murph and I will discuss what is arguably the deepest part of this Patriots roster, the defensive backfield.

Discussing that when the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. Patriots fan, our main man, Thomas Murphy, joins me today for his weekly appearance on the pod. An hour look into the Patriots' backs in 2020. And Murph, the Patriots boast one of the deepest secondaries in the NFL. That's highly unlikely to change. 2019 Defensive Player of the Year, Stephon Gilmore, leads a strong unit at cornerback. And to be honest, I don't see any surprise cuts here at this position. Each of these guys I think is far too valuable, even at the safety position. And we'll talk about that in just a moment, folks. But staying on the corner for just a moment, Gilmore and J.C. Jackson, I think, are pretty

much confirmed to be corners one and two, respectively. Jonathan Jones almost assured the slot corner role. But there seems to be a little bit of an argument as to who takes on that third corner role. And the choices here are clearly Jason McCourty and Jawan Williams. Now, J-Mac is a leader on and off the field, well-respected, and we saw the struggles in the secondary last season when Jason was on the sidelines.

It looked like a different unit. Williams is largely untested, but he's big, he's physical, has the potential to be productive. I've compared him a little bit to Brandon Browner, as have many of our colleagues, and I think there's a strong resemblance in playing styles there but in your estimation who do you think has the upper hand with being the corner three and maybe a spot starter at times and is there a surprise in store for Patriots fans when

it comes to the cornerback position this year beyond the depth of just Gilmore and Jackson at the top you know Jonathan Jones is in there. JC, we talked about. And, you know, Justin Bethel has become a really important part of this rotation here. He's somebody that Bill seems to really trust in certain situations. And that's the beauty of this defensive backfield and of Bill Belichick is putting those guys in the right position to succeed in whatever situation might come up. This is really tough, people, because what we're doing is right now there are so many versatile pieces to this defensive backfield that you really don't know what to expect and and now imagine being an opposing head coach and and having to look at we're talking about 16 or 17 guys that could easily you know make the cut and and and contribute to this team. But when you break it down into who's going to make the roster,

and we're looking at the guys that are the most versatile. I really don't see Cody Davis. Terrence Brooks could be out of here. Brandon King might have taken his last snap as a New England Patriot. These are the questions that are going to come up, and they're going to have to be answered quickly with the fact that we aren't going to see any pre-season games this year. And I really think that Bill is going to end up dancing with the ones that

brung him. And we could. Okay, this is just like a completely outside chance, folks, that, you know, Kyle, without the mini camps, without the OTAs, it's going to be really difficult for him. We talk about, at length, about the Encyclopedia Biltanica, that is the offense, but the volumes are doubled when it comes to this defense that he's put together over the last two, three seasons. It is, it is really morphed into something different,

something that we haven't seen in football ever. And, um, experience is going to outweigh athletic ability in certain areas. And yes, I could see Kyle Duggar making his way to a redshirt season here in New England just to give the guys on terrestrial radio something to talk about. You know, another number one draft pick. What's going on. Bill, the GM ruining Bill, the coach again. Um, no, it's not, this is, this is about a long-term plan.

This is not about, um, this season, you know, every season is important. It, the goal is still winning the super bowl, but there, there's a method to Bill's madness that keeps this team in the conversation every year for the past two decades, folks. And when you're out there and you're talking about how Kansas City is going to surpass the Patriots in Super Bowl victories because of the new contract that Mahoney just signed, get a grip. There's more to it than that. There's more to it than having the, the number one quarterback. I agree. I agree. I think you made some great points and especially on Duggar, which we'll get to in a second. That's how we'll close the show today. But when it comes to, I'm sorry, I jumped off,

I jumped off of cornerbacks and I went right to the cornerback position. Yeah, I'm sorry. I jumped off of cornerbacks. No, no, no. No, because of the entire. No, it all ties in, my friend. Believe me. And it ties in nicely. And I'll show you exactly how that's going to tie in in just a moment, folks. But when it comes to guys like Williams and McCourty, I think we can both agree that they're pretty well roster locks. I don't think either one of them is going to be cut, especially with McCoury signing the extension in the offseason um you know them picking up his option i should say his brother

signing the extension in the new contract i think there's a lot to uh to hold on to you want to divvy it up you know look williams absolutely it's mccordy cash absolutely um but williams i think has a tremendous upside i think he could be used both as a perimeter corner against those taller pass catchers. I think that's an element that the Patriots may have lacked a little last year. If there was anything in the secondary that they did lack, maybe they could have used a little more athleticism there. But I think he could be used also as a developmental safety to help defend opposing tight ends. That's something the Patriots struggled with last year. And I think they have the guys in the safety position now to be able

to do it, but Williams could make that transition. So he could be almost that chameleon. One of the reasons Duggar was chosen where he was, you know. Very, very good. Very good point. Absolutely. He has that Patrick Chung in him that allows him to be able to play the hybrid linebacker or defend against tight ends. And I think that's how Kyle will be utilized. I think McCourty still has the clear edge as the number three guy, not so much counting Jonathan Jones in the slot. And I'm glad you mentioned Bethel because I have an affinity for special teamers. Bill Belichick does. And folks, I'm going to get to those special teamers in just a moment because there's one here I have a very sharp eye on this year. But within McCourty's defensive role, the Patriots used him primarily both on the perimeter and on the inside. They can use him either way,

and I think that makes Jason so valuable to this franchise. When I looked at the snap count, and credit to our good friend Bernd Buckmoss or Pat's Pulpit for putting these together, 262 snaps split out wide that's 55.3 compared to 150 coming from the slot but it does show that he's versatile he can play in both roles it may be sparingly in the slot but he's played enough to be able to show that he can do that if there's something either that goes down with Jonathan Jones or if he just needs a break on the field Jason can come in and do that I think he showed versatility to find success regardless of team and I think he can perform well as both

a man-to-man and his own cornerback that's why I look for more out of Jason McCourty this year than Jawan Williams but Jawan is not going to be the perennial healthy scratch that he was last year for most of the year you're going to see him on the field a more, and I think you're going to see what the Patriots saw in him to make him a second-rounder out of Vanderbilt a couple of years ago. Buddy, you mentioned the safety position, and you mentioned Kyle Duggar pretty prominently, and I'm not going to steal your thunder there because I do want to give you a chance to talk on that.

But I think the safety position this year, just as stable, arguably as prolific as the corners for the Pats. Pat Chung, Devin McCourty, pretty set in stone. But there's that rotational spot that was manned by Deron Harmon. And to me, it's up for grabs. Deron's obviously now in Detroit. So I think that means that Kyle Duggar, if he does end up seeing the field, Adrian Phillips, Terrencerence brooks cody davis a couple of guys that have outside shots malik gant who turned some heads last year in training camp as an undrafted

free agent adarius pickett is obviously on the depth chart but i think it's really going to be uh duggar phillips brooks and davis kind of jockeying for position here um i have my pick for the rotational spot but i don't want to steal your thunder. How do you see this competition shaking out and who among the names I've mentioned will find themselves on the outside looking in at the end of the summer? Wow, that's a really good question, bud. That's a really good question. As I talked about Duggar a little bit earlier, and I'm going to stick with what I said, But also, you know, Cody Davis could find himself on the outside here. There's an outside chance, a very outside chance,

that Terrence Brooks does not make the final cut. Just, you know, it's just that kind of year that could really, you know, shake things up back there. Also, we still don't know who might opt out, who might have an underlying condition that they don't want to expose themselves to what's happening out there, who might have a child at home or a wife at home who says, you know, I'm going to take this season off.

I really am. I'm going to go with the stipend and keep, you know, keep on going to take this season off. I really am. I'm going to go with the stipend and keep, you know, keep on keeping on and I'll be back next year. It's a really good question. And I don't have the solid answer that you want today, buddy. I'm really sorry about that. No, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. As a matter of fact, I think you're probably in the majority rather than the minority, because right now, Murph, there's so much uncertainty there are stipends that are being offered there are measures being put in place to protect players that want to have

the ability to opt out you don't right simply don't know that is a wild card that no one can predict so no I think you answered the question well and I'm glad that you brought up what you brought up on Kyle Duggar because to to me, that leads quite nicely into my argument. And I said, I had my pick for the rotational spot in the safety position, and I'm going with Adrian Phillips here. And the reason why I'm doing that, folks, is everybody knows by default, I kind of mentioned it more than one occasion. I had the opportunity to cover Adrian when I was covering the Chargers and you know from a statistical standpoint he not only puts up gaudy numbers when it comes to special teams tackles

he also was able to lead the Chargers and be at or near the top for the Chargers in categories like passes broken up defensive tackles uh he only allowed in his final season, final full season in Los Angeles, he only allowed 36.6 completion percentage and only a 44.8 quarterback rating on passes thrown into his coverage area. This guy is not just a special teamer, folks. He is a defensive chameleon. He can do it all. He covers running backs.

I've seen him cover tight ends. He's covered wide receivers one-on-one. He always seems to be at the bottom of the pile in run support, and I think that's something that, again, the Patriots look for in versatility when it comes to a defensive back. He's literally everywhere on the field. He does everything for a defense. I saw him do it in Los Angeles. I think I'm going to see him do it again in New England. I've seen him line up at both safety positions. He's lined up at the hybrid linebacker position. I've even seen Adrian line up on the defensive line in limited sets because of his versatility. That's why I'm so high on this guy, and I really think he is one of the more under-the-radar signings that could really pay dividends for this team. He's got a tremendous amount of experience, great on special teams, but I don't think he gets enough credit for the impact he can have on this defense. So in that regard, I think he could end up being that third rotational safety that's kind of always on the field.

Conventional wisdom would tell you it will be Kyle Duggar, but I agree with you. I think that he's going to have to get up to speed very quickly over the course of an abbreviated training camp no OTAs no mini camps no preseason games if his adaptation from don't forget folks Kyle Duggar's coming from a division two school he's coming from Lenore Rhine and I'm not saying that that's going to stunt his growth in the NFL but it may take him a year to get acclimated to NFL caliber competition. He looked like a man among men last year at division two, Lenore Ryan, but it's different

when you're going up against NFL competition. If that means he needs to take occasional looks on defense and maybe acclimate himself in, you know, maybe it won't be an IR trip. I mean, I'm not saying that that's not possible, but maybe it won't be an IR trip. I mean, I'm not saying that that's not possible, but maybe it won't be an IR trip. But if that's the case, he may need a more experienced safety like a guy like Adrian Phillips to come in and be able to take that off. Terrence Brooks, Cody Davis, obviously, I think they're going to compete. I think the both of them can make an adequate roster spot. I've given the nod to Cody Davis because of versatility a little bit more.

I know a lot of guys, a lot of beat writers in this town, a really big on Terrence Brooks. And look, he's a great guy, great teammate, and someone that will do anything you ask him to do. But I just think that the way Cody Davis plays reminds me so much of Nate Ebner. I think it's going to fall into Bill Belichick's lap that way. Oh, bingo. Oh, bingo. But, you know, I think that in a lot of ways, Bud, there's still a lot of questions to be answered.

And the good thing about it is we have, you know, almost a Michael Corleone type insight where there's things being negotiated that's going to answer all your questions and solve all your problems. But that being said, you lend your wisdom and counsel like no other. And you've done that today, buddy. That's why you're family here at Locked On Patriots. Folks, I say this all the time, but you should already be following this man. For any of our new listeners, follow the Count of Murphy Fisto himself on Twitter, at TeamMurph207. The columns, the monster keys during the season, all of the insight he provides leading up to training camp. They're always point, click, and most importantly, learn material, folks.

Of course, all of Murph's work is always proudly found on diehardbostonsportsfans.com. Never miss an episode of One Patriot's Place with Murph and our great mutual friend, Steve Balistrieri. Great listen out there with another good friend of our program, Evan Lazar of CL clns check that out buddy what can i say thank you again honored and humbled as always by your presence no no no no always always here always willing and able um this is this is my favorite stop on my uh on uh my friends podcast list as as always like i said man you are more than a friend you are family and i friend. You are family.

And I hope this makes Claire happy because she wasn't too thrilled that I wasn't on, on the road in the rotation last week. And I had to explain to her, you know, it's, it's a know your enemy week. And, and that's what, that's what they do here at locked on Patriots. They give the people what they want. And, uh, last week, the only person that wanted me on the show was Claire. I assure you that was not the case, my friend. I received more than one notice on where is the weekly appearance.

And by all indications, folks, I mean, the crossover week was a great week here. Closed out the week in style with our good friend Miguel lending financial wisdom. But we needed the green wisdom and counsel of Murph to come back to the pod, and I, for one, could not have been happier. So we will continue that rotation, and until next week, Bud, we'll keep an eye on the waiver wire, we'll keep an eye on the cut list, and we'll see what happens as the Patriots move forward toward training. Keep a close eye on who might be renegotiating in the Patriots' continued efforts to make some more cap room going into the year.

Very good point. Because that could also play into everybody or anybody who might be here or might not. Because, like we said a couple of weeks ago, it might make them a bit easier, a bit more palatable to trade away. And the Patriots need to get a couple of draft picks back that, you know, Kraft Productions lost them. Conversation for another day, my friend. We're still a little salty about that, but you know what? We'll march on. But great point.

Keep a sharp eye, folks, especially on renegotiations, contract levels. These are going to be things that are going to determine the outcome of the season. And I think 2020 is going to be the year of the savvy veterans. So we'll see what happens as we move forward. But always an honor and a privilege, Bud. And you know you're going to be right here with us breaking it all down for all of our fans here at Locked On Patriots. Always, man.

I love Locked On Patriots. It's my favorite show, whether I'm involved or not. Feeling is mutual, my friend. We love you right back. Take care. Stay safe. Stay well. We look forward to talking to you again next week.

And so, Patriots fans, there you have it. A look inside the defensive and offensive backfields of your New England Patriots. Is Rex Burkhead indeed the most likely cut when it comes to the running backs? Will both Jakob Johnson and Danny Vitale find their way onto the 2020 roster? Does Jason McCourty have a leg up on the competition of being that third corner? Will the Patriots be forced to develop Kyle Duggar a little slower than usual, opening up a spot for Adrian Phillips? Folks, Murph and I did our best to bring you our insight on these questions,

but what do you think? Drop us a line at LO underscore Patriots, and we would love to hear your thoughts on the 2020 roster in advance of training camp opening in less than a week. But we continue to just scratch the surface on the Patriots roster and the numerous questions that surround it in advance of training camp. So to ensure that you do not miss a single episode of Locked On Patriots, subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, follow us on Spotify, download us wherever you get your podcasts.

And of course, you can always listen to Locked On Patriots right on your very own smart device. And it's so simple to do so, folks. Just ask it to play the latest episode of Locked On Patriots. Once again, I'm Mike DeBate. I thank Thomas Murphy for his time, his insight, and his appearance on today's pod, but most of all, I thank you so much for listening, and for staying locked into Locked On Patriots.

Stay safe, stay well, continue to be the change you wish to see in the world, and have a great day, everyone.