Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Brady back to the Bay? McCourty to Stay? - 3/4/2020

Episode Date: March 4, 2020

Is there a possibility that Tom Brady might be taking his 2020 NFL snaps in the Bay Area?? Karen Guregian of the Boston Herald joins host Mike D’Abate to discuss the likelihood of Brady following his heart to San Francisco; as well as the chances of a reunion for the Patriots and Jimmy Garoppolo. Karen also offers her insight on Devin McCourty’s chances of returning to Foxboro, and those that impressed her at the 2020 NFL Draft Combine.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello to all of you Foxborough faithful. You are listening to the Locked On Patriots podcast, your daily dose of news, notes, and analysis infused with the occasional opinion on your six-time Super Bowl champions, the New England Patriots. I'm Mike DeBate, your host of Locked On Patriots. As always, a proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. And because it's your team every day, your questions, your comments, your feedback are always welcomed and very much encouraged. How can you let your voice be heard here on the Locked On Patriots Podcast? Well, feel free to reach out to me and follow me on Twitter at MDABATEFPC.

And while you're out there roaming around on the Twitterverse, folks, be sure to give the Locked On Patriots account a follow as well at LO underscore Patriots. Pats fans, it is Wednesday. It is the midway point in the week. And what better way to get you all over the hump as we head toward the weekend than to absorb the wisdom and counsel of a guest with whom I am honored to share the microphone today

and one that I know so many of you have been waiting to hear on the Locked On Patriots podcast airwaves. Karen Garigian of the Boston Herald will be joining me in just a moment. And those of you, and I know there are a lot of you folks that have read and enjoyed Karen's work throughout the years, know that she is revered in the sports media business, not just on the Boston Beat, but all over the country. And there's a reason for that.

From a personal standpoint, I can tell you she's one of the nicest and most grounded people that you will find in this or any business. But from a professional standpoint, her analysis is honest, spot on, and very insightful. And her appearance here today on Locked On Patriots comes at a very good time. Because Karen's Tuesday column for the Herald gave some gravitas, if you will, to a comment that was made by another journalist who I've cited several times here on Locked On Patriots. NBC Sports Boston's Tommy Curran appeared on XM Satellite Radio on Tuesday. And he dropped a little pearl of wisdom that made its way around social media fairly quickly

when he said that the San Francisco 49ers may have some interest in bringing in Tom Brady. So what about Jimmy Garoppolo, folks? Well, Jimmy would have to be moved out before Tom could move in. Well, would that moving out lead to a possible moving back in for Jimmy GQ here to New England? Well, Karen provided not only that insight, but also much more in her Tuesday column for the Herald. Rest assured, folks, we will be discussing that. Also, much like my good friend Mark Schofield last week, Karen was on site in Indianapolis last week for the 2020 NFL Draft Combine. We'll be discussing her standout performers, who the Patriots should keep a sharp eye on,

and also her report from the Combine last week regarding Patriots safety Devin McCourty. And for those of you that might not recall, Karen was among the first to report that the Patriots and McCourty intend to engage in ongoing negotiations that might help facilitate Devin's return to Foxborough for 2020. Now, late Wednesday morning, Ian Rapoport of the NFL Network reported facilitate Devin's return to Foxborough for 2020. Now, late Wednesday morning, Ian Rappaport of the NFL Network reported that Devin's brother, Jason, was likely to have his nearly $4 million contract option for 2020 picked up by the team. And this is big news for both Devin and Jason McCourty and the Patriots as well. For Jason, this likely means he'll stay in New England, where he's been very productive.

Jason was a very big part of the Patriots' secondary last year, and they really missed him down the stretch when he was out fighting injury. From Devin's standpoint, this is a big selling point for he and the team to come together and reach an agreement. Even though there have been reports out there that Devin is saying that he and his brother are not a package deal, and that that's not tied to his decision, you know these two sides would like to come together,

and you know he would like to continue to play alongside his twin brother. So Karen and I will discuss all of that and more. However, before she joins me here on the Locked On Patriots podcast, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention that when Karen and I spoke on Wednesday morning, neither of us were aware of an interesting development that occurred on Tuesday when it comes to the negotiations between Tom Brady and the New England Patriots. Apparently, according to Karen's source, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick spoke via phone on Tuesday, and it was indeed the first time that the two sides came together and spoke in any detail

about Brady's contract situation for the 2020 season. Now, per a piece that Karen published on BostonHerald.com early Wednesday afternoon, the source wouldn't clarify the discussion as being all that fruitful, saying as, quote, it didn't go well. Uh-oh, folks, is it time to panic? Well, not just yet. According to Karen, while it's off to a rocky start, that doesn't necessarily mean that both the New England Patriots and Tom Brady still have the ability to come together. It does not preclude the Pats from signing their six-time Super Bowl winner. All it means at this point is that these negotiations are not going to be smooth sailing. And let's face it, folks, even for someone like me, who's been beating the Brady's coming back drum for quite some time now,

and I still am, by the way, even I didn't think these negotiations were going to be smooth sailing. There's a lot of details to be worked out, and these things do take time. But keep this tidbit in mind when Karen and I do discuss the subject of her Tuesday column. Does this make it a little bit more likely that Tom Brady could be headed back to the city by the bay where he was born and bred? Karen Garigian and I will discuss that very point and much more in just a moment. My guest today on the Locked On Patriots podcast, folks, is one of the most insightful and one

of the most respected members of the Patriots beat. She has been a member of the Boston Herald sports staff since 1984 in various roles covering Boston sports. But since 2007, she has covered the Patriots full time. And in my opinion, folks, few, if any, have done it as well or better. It is my honor to welcome Karen Garigian of the Boston Herald. Karen, thank you so much for joining me today. Welcome to Lockdown Patriots.

Well, nice to be with you, Mike. I like to do these type of things, so I'm ready to roll. Well, we're definitely honored to have you. I'm honored to have you, and I know our listeners have been looking forward to this one for quite a roll. Well, we're definitely honored to have you. I'm honored to have you, and I know our listeners have been looking forward to this one for quite a while. And Karen, there is never any shortage of information to discuss

when it comes to the New England Patriots. You know that as well or better than I do. This has been an interesting off-season for the Pats. From the season ending in a manner that Patriots fans are not used to, at least in recent memory, to the nonstop speculation of Tom Brady's future. And we might as well begin with the topic of the day, Karen.

And your piece for the Herald yesterday was an intriguing one for all intents and purposes. And it expounded upon a point that Tommy Curran of NBC Sports Boston made on Sirius XM Satellite Radio on Tuesday about the San Francisco 49ers possibly being a serious contender for Tom's services in 2020. Now, I've been beating the Tom Brady's coming back to New England drum for quite some time, and I'm not necessarily wavering in that stance just yet, but reading your piece yesterday raised my eyebrow for sure. First, the lure of Tom returning home to quarterback the team that he grew up idolizing, that could be really tough for him to turn down. But the Niners have some motivation here, too.

They have the ability to cut bait with Jimmy Garoppolo before April 1st, when Jimmy's $15.7 million in salary would become guaranteed, and they'd only get hit with a cap charge of about $4.2 million. So that's thanks to a low signing bonus that Jimmy signed, and they would also free up $22.4 million in cap space. So that's a pretty good motivation. And if the Niners think that Jimmy's performance in the closing minutes of the Super Bowl is any indication that he may not be the guy he thought he was, this scenario all of a sudden seems possible. So, Karen, first, in a logistical sense, what type of, I guess the best way for me to put it is, what type of path

might lead Tom Brady to San Francisco? And then flipping that a little bit, what would the path to a reunion between Jimmy and the Patriots look like if Tom does indeed go west to his hometown? Yeah. Well, I mean, he's wanted to explore free agency, and I think his agent Don Ye, might have touched base with several teams during the combine. I know it's tampering, but this is allowed right now. I mean, I think the Patriots want Tom to talk to teams, so it's not like they're going to file any tampering charges or whatever.

But I would think of all the teams, of all the frontrunners, or supposed frontrunners, whether it's the Chargers or the Raiders and or the Titans, if San Francisco, you know, showed interest, again, this was the team he idolized growing up. And if, you know, Kyle Shanahan would, you know, adapt his offensive enough to suit Tom Brady, I would think it's the ideal landing spot

for him. Again, if all these things are true, they would have the cap space once they didn't re-up Jimmy on April 1st. And the thing that makes the most sense, I think, is, I mean,

the 49ers are poised to win now. And, you know, do you keep whatever their view is of Jimmy, you know, are you better poised to win now with Jimmy or Tom Brady? And that's the question they have to this which first started as speculation and rumors and uh with tom curran saying it was real and i checked with my people once you know tom uh said that on uh serious and they said you know uh, you might not be barking up the wrong tree with that. So it's out there, and it's certainly eye-catching and piques your curiosity because if Brady goes there, does Jimmy Garoppolo come back to the Patriots? So, you know, the whole thing is fascinating. And that really is, I think, the million-dollar question is whether or not, and I'm so glad that you articulated that so well,

it's whether or not the San Francisco 49ers, whether they're high on Jimmy or not, whether they believe that right now, the way this team is constituted, are they better off winning right now with Tom Brady than Jimmy Garoppolo? And I'm of the school that believes, and I say this with every bit of affection that I have for Jimmy. I always enjoy seeing him do well. He handled himself with class here in New England. I think he's a solid football player.

But I've gone on record several times saying that I believe that if Tom Brady were the quarterback of the 49ers in the Super Bowl this year, that outcome might have been and probably would have been different. So it's an interesting scenario and this has always been the one, even though I've been so vocal and so hopeful that Tom would find his way back to Foxborough. This is the one scenario that always made me raise my eyebrow a little bit because it's the 49ers, because of the lure, and of course, logistically, it is possible. So we'll see what happens on this one. Yeah, I just jump in to add even more context to the 49ers and their ability to win now. If you look at the span of, say, what Jimmy Garoppolo's contract is or whatever, if they think Jimmy might get them something down the road,

down the road in the future, there's things you have to think about. They have a young team, but obviously when contract time comes, will they be able to to pay everyone you know will they be able to pay boza again will they be able to pay kittle again will they you know the the stars that you know basically have brought them to the precipice of winning are they going to be able to keep that collection of talent together? And how long? So if you're the 49ers, are you thinking, we get a strike when the fire's hot and when we have this nucleus right now?

So again, I think that's something they're weighing. Absolutely. so again I think that's something they're weighing absolutely and any franchise I think that's in the position that the 49ers are in would definitely be kicking the tires on a quarterback and I know the argument out there as well they're going to mortgage the future of Jimmy who has maybe 7-8 good years left in him at an early estimate

for someone that has maybe 1 or 2 years at best. But again, you're talking about the winning the here and now. They were within an eyelash from winning the Super Bowl, let's be honest. And if they feel that Tom Brady puts them over the hump, they're going to do their due diligence. And it might be a tough lure for him to turn down, meaning Tom. So I have my star by on this one, and I know you will as well. And that's what really made me want to discuss this with you today, because when I see it come from Tom, Curran that is, and I see it come from you,

my eyebrow gets raised, my spidey sense goes up, and I know a lot of our listeners are as well. So thank you for that insight, and I thank you for your level-headed approach and also giving us the other side of the coin, because I think things could get interesting here in the next couple of weeks. But switching gears very briefly, Karen, Tom Brady might be priority one for the Patriots and rightfully so, but he's not their only priority. And they have a lot of key free agents and only a limited pool of financial resources to work with. So there is a chance, and I know it's tough for

Patriots fans to understand, but this could be a real chance that this team might bid farewell, not to just one, but two key leaders of this team. And yes, I'm talking about Brady as being one of them, but the other is Devin McCourty. And you were among the first, if not the first, to report the news last week that the Pats are fully intending to work with Devin towards a new contract. There have even been reports out there that say that they would consider the franchise tag on him to ensure that he remains in Foxborough. However, he is set to become a free agent, and if the two sides can't come to an agreement, if he does test the free agent waters, he's going to have no shortage of suitors out there, and ones that could maybe offer Devin more than the Pats could or he's going to have no shortage of suitors out there and ones that

could maybe offer Devin more than the Pats could or might be willing to do. The Dolphins, the Lions, they immediately come to mind as potential fits for him. With free agency fast approaching, Karen, should the Patriots fans be concerned that we might have seen the last of Devin McCourty in Foxborough? Well, sure. I do think it's a possibility if he gets out to free agency that there'll just be an offer out there that he can't refuse because a lot of these teams, Miami being one of them, even Detroit, they have so much more space money money to spend money to spend on you know or overspend on on players so the last time it came around

from McCourty he he had offers and he came back with offers and it was like at the last minute that Bill Belichick got on the phone and they worked it out for him to stay. I don't think they necessarily wanted him to get, my understanding, get out and see what the other offers are, although he probably knows what they are. But I think the discussions so far, while they haven't talked money per se, largely

due to, you know, outside factors being what happens with Brady, what happens with the CBA. But I think both sides have expressed an interest, A, the Patriots to retain Devin, and B, I think the McCourty camp has also expressed the interest to stay in New England with the Patriots. So however they try to work that out, I think they will do what they try to work that out, I think they will do, you know, what they can to make that happen. And perhaps if they can't quite hit an agreement before, I think it'll be March

12th, which is the end of the franchise tag, maybe they will tag him, but they will tag him, you know, they've done this before, with the hope of, you know, working out that deal in the time frame that they can. Absolutely, and great points. Again, with Devin, he's generally considered the quarterback of that defense, and I know Dante Hightower is really the director of both midfield and the linebackers, the defensive line, even some of the defensive backs. But Devin is such an indelible part of what this team does defensively. I agree with you. I think that if the franchise tag is used on him,

I believe it's a transitional tag being designed for the ability to work out a long-term deal between both sides. But it's good to know that the dialogue is there. The Patriots' intent seems to be to keep him in Foxborough. His preference, I think, is to remain in Foxborough as well. You always worry about free agency and getting to free agency and teams being maybe willing to offer more than what the Patriots are going to. So there's always that chance. But, again, my gut feeling tells me Devin is probably a guy they want to retain, and I know Patriots fans hope that more than anything.

Right. And another wrinkle, let's say, I'll call it a wrinkle to this, is the Patriots' plans with Devin's brother, Jason. You know, I think, I'm not going to say they're a package deal, but if the Patriots, you know, continue the relationship with Jason McCourty and work something out with him to keep him in Foxborough, all the more reason for Devin also to stay because he really loves playing with his brother.

The Patriots have also made it known through the channels, the proper channels, that they would like to keep Jason. So I think that's another kind of important side element of the Devin, that they're not a package deal. But ultimately, you know they love playing together and they would love to remain together if possible. I think we saw the value of Jason to the cornerback position last year as the tail end of the season started and Jason had his health issues. That was a little bit of a different secondary than we were used to seeing early on. And Jason is one of those guys that was always in the right place at the right time maybe not the big play threat that a guy like Stephon Gilmore or even a JC Jackson and Jonathan Jones had become but he's such an important part of what they do solidifies that

secondary so hopefully that strength of the Patriots defense will remain intact and lastly today Karen defense is sort of the topic of my next question, but not solely, because the 2020 NFL Draft Combine wrapped up in Indianapolis on Sunday, and you were there last week at Lucas Oil Stadium providing amazing coverage, as you always do. Combining your knowledge. Oh, you're welcome. Believe me, I say that with every bit of sincerity. You really and truly do.

But combining your knowledge of the Patriots' needs on their roster with the scouting and the analysis of the players that you either heard speak or saw work out, who do you believe should be on the Patriots' roster now that we're moving closer to the draft? And could we possibly see some movement from the Patriots? For example, trading draft picks to acquire a second rounder? And you wrote a little bit about this last week. So if you could enlighten my listeners here at Locked On Patriots about what caught your eye at the combine

and what types of moves the Pats might make as the draft quickly approaches now at the tail end of next month. Well, one of the major focuses of all writers from New England was the tight end class to start because the Patriots, barring a quarterback if Brady leaves, they need at least one tight end, maybe two. And the reason I wrote what I did about them not having a second round pick is most analysts' views, you know, draft analysts' views,

are that this class of tight ends aren't like first round worthy that they they would more fall in line at least the best best tight ends uh in the class would fall in the second round and with the patriots not having a pick there they would probably miss out on an adam trout and troutman of Dayton, who seems to be a perfect fit or one of the perfect fits for the Patriots. So they're either going to trade. They might have to trade out of the first round, which we know is not unusual for them, or try and package a bunch of their other picks

because they have multiple picks in the third round and multiple picks in the sixth round, to try and move into the second round so that they can get an Adam Troutman or a Cole Komet of Notre Dame, both of whom I liked. And there's another tight end. I can't pronounce his name, but it's Albert, maybe you can help me,

Okwabunim from Missouri. Actually, that's exactly how I've been pronouncing it here on Locked on Patriots. So I think we're going to lock that in, and I think we're going to say that that's how you pronounce it, because that's my pronunciation as well. But I know exactly who you mean. I have chronicled him here on the show several times. And he was hugely impressive. I mean, he, you know, we thought there was like a top three,

but I think Albert's stock rose from his showing in the Combine because he, you know, he kind of lit it up. He did. So maybe you get him in the third round, but are you going to count on that given how much his stock has risen? So I think significantly the Patriots need one, if not two, tight ends, whether that's through the draft or free agency. But, you know, they need to develop

their next Gronk. And I'm not saying they're going to get another Gronk, but they need an impactful tight end more than anything. I liked Dayton's Adam Troutman. He was really good in areas that the Patriots like, like the three-cone drill and stuff like that. So he blocks very well. So, again, those are the type of – I think that's number one. The quarterbacks were interesting. Again, if the Patriots, depending on where – even I think they need to draft a quarterback,

whether Tom Brady comes back or doesn't, especially if they're not completely sold on Jared Stidham. They've got to keep going to the well, so to speak, for the next guy. So looking at the quarterbacks was interesting too. And in regard to that, do the Patriots stay the course with somebody who fits their offense, which means is like Tom Brady and is kind of, you know, the pocket passer? Or do they go with the pocket passer who has more mobility,

which is now overtaking the NFL, given Patrick Mahomes and company? So there's different choices and different flavors out there, and I think it would be really interesting if the Patriots change course from, you know, the Brady type, let's say. I think you've made some great, great points, and first of all, on the tight end position, I definitely agree with you on Trotman. Several of my guests, whether it be Mark Schofield or Evan Lazar or Alex Barth that I spoke with last week, all had glowing things to say about Adam. He seems to be that prototypical type of patriot that really could make an impact here. And let's face it, you're absolutely right.

They're never going to replace, pound for pound, what Rob Gronkowski brought to the table. Gronk's a once-in-a-lifetime type player, but this is a guy that could come in and give you production. At the tight end position last year, quite frankly, Karen, they didn't have it. I mean, we all know that. Whether it be Benjamin Watson giving you everything he possibly could toward the end of his career, or whether it be Matt Lacoste maybe being you know run of the mill and just kind of average for what they needed him Ryan Izzo not panning out the way they hoped they really need some young talent at that position so it would not shock me to see them trade up into the second round to try

to get that type of talent at the position with quarterbacks I agree with you I think they do face a cross section or a crossroads maybe if they're not completely sold on Jarrett, and we have that for a factor or whatnot, but I think even if they are pretty high on Jarrett, I think bringing in another quarterback could be a good option considering Tom's age. If he does come back or if he departs, they definitely need to bring one in. Names that you mentioned that could be that I've seen bandied around, Cole McDonald out of Hawaii seems to have risen his draft stock when it comes to the Patriots' eyes.

Jalen Hurts I know is a guy that people are mentioning. Jordan Love is another one. So there are options out there. If he's there, yeah. Exactly, if he's there. And that's the key, is that are the Patriots willing to use an early pick or are they willing to use an early pick or are they willing to you know trade down or do something else to try to get value out of that position

um real quick lastly before i let you go today on the defensive side of the ball could the patriots look in that direction as well oh oh for sure um i was just quickly going to say if i were to guess, getting back to the quarterbacks, they'll wait until the third or fourth round. The other position that I'm really curious to see, if they get another wide receiver in a wide receiver-rich class. I mean, I don't think... Yeah, rich class. I mean, I don't think... Yeah, big class. Would they go with the first round again?

Or would they wait? I would say because there's so much depth in this field, they'll wait, but they'll definitely draft somebody else. On the defensive side of the ball, I believe that given they're probably going to lose a couple linebackers or one of two, whether it's Van Noy or Collins or Jamie Collins, that, you know, they are going to have to dip back into the draft and perhaps get another linebacker and get him into the system and get him working.

If you're trying to fit a prototype, it would be someone along the lines of Kyle Van Noy. And it's hard to kind of fit those guys with guys in the draft. So, I mean, the guy who made the most buzz, who you'd love to see, is Isaiah Williams, but, you know, he's going to be gone so soon. He's the type of piece, let's say, the chess piece that Bill Belichick loves to work with because he's versatile. You can play him at linebacker safety. You can move him all around the defense.

But essentially, those are the type of players that they have on defense, whether it's Hightower or Van Noy or Collins, especially their linebackers. They can play up on the line. They can play on the inside. They can do just about anything, and that's what makes them so effective. Absolutely. And, again and there's again there's never a shortage of needs when it comes to the offensive side of the defensive side of the ball patriots always look to maximize value and get the best players available so we'll look for that

and at the end of the day karen bill probably end up taking someone that nobody has on their radar right now and he'll end up probably be coming in and doing great things and we'll all be scratching our heads wondering why we prognosticated so much on what he's going to do. We will never have heard. Yeah, he's pulled the rabbits out of his hat quite a few times before. And usually the position is safety. But I also think, again, that's another position of note for the Patriots because their core is getting on in age. So there's the Delpit kid from LSU that's been linked to the Patriots.

And the Alabama kid as well, safety. His name escapes me right now. But I wouldn't be surprised if they went in that direction as well. Let's face it, they have a few needs. Absolutely, they truly do. You mentioned Delpit. Xavier McKinney is a name that a lot of people mentioned. That's the one. That's the Alabama kid.

That's the Alabama kid, absolutely. Antoine Winfield is someone that I actually chronicled here yesterday on the Google News Initiative for the Locked On Patriots podcast. So a lot of options, and there might be a need there as well. So we'll continue to look, and we always look to the experts in the field, and you're definitely at the top of that list, Karen. I could not be more appreciative of you taking the time to join me today here on the Locked On Patriots podcast.

Folks, Karen's work is second to none. I say that without reservation, without hesitation. The Herald provides great Patriots coverage as a whole, whether it's Karen, her colleague Andrew Callahan, or others. It's always informative, always spot on. I can't recommend it highly enough. On newsstands in print form, bostonherald.com on the web. Karen herself can be found on Twitter at Kay Garigian. If you need a

dose of reality and class on Twitter, Karen provides both each and every day. And on a personal note, Karen, I want to thank you for saying the words, an offer that can't refuse. As a huge Godfather fan, I can't be happy enough that you said that on my podcast. So thank you very much for saying an offer you can't refuse. But all kidding aside, thank you so much. And I hope to speak with you again here on Locked On Patriots before we officially kick off the 2020 season. Well, Mike, thank you very much.

And I would love to join you again. It's been fun. Absolutely. For me as well. Thank you so much. It's been fun. Absolutely. For me as well. Thank you so much. Have a great week, Karen. Thank you.