Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Chatham Conducts ‘Logic 101’ - 12/13/19

Episode Date: December 13, 2019

It’s almost game day. However, there is still a desperate need for some education of the masses when it comes to the New England Patriots and their latest footage fiasco. Matt Chatham of NESN and The Athletic joins host Mike D’Abate to candidly address the issues with NFL officiating, preview Pats-Bengals AND sets the record straight on why this latest scandal in Foxboro is much ado about nothing.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello to all you Foxborough faithful and welcome to your It's Almost Game Day and Friday the 13th edition of Locked On Patriots, your daily home for news, notes, analysis, and the occasional opinion on your six-time Super Bowl champions, the New England Patriots. Today's episode is brought to you in part by Casper. The original Casper mattress combines multiple supportive memory foams for a quality sleep surface with the right amounts of both sink and bounce. Get $100 towards select mattresses by visiting casper.com slash locked NFL and using locked NFL at checkout. Terms and conditions apply. If you can't visit Casper right now, you can find this and all other offers from Locked On sponsors at lockedOnPodcast.com slash offers. My name is Mike DeBate, and I am your host of Locked On Patriots, which of course is a part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day.

Please feel free to reach out to me on Twitter at MDABATEFPC, and be sure to follow Locked On Patriots on Twitter at LO underscore Patriots. Well, Pats fans, the time for the talk is just about over, and there has been plenty of chatter surrounding your New England Patriots this week. From shoddy officiating, to concerns about the offense, to another attempt at resurrecting Spygate, I've said it before and I'll say it again, there is never a dull moment here in Foxborough, Massachusetts.

And yes, during my intro, I did mention that it was Friday the 13th, and while some of you listening might be superstitious, don't worry,un and the Athletic, Matt Chatham joins me today. He will be discussing the referees, the video recordings, and the fact that the Patriots do have a game on Sunday as well. So sit tight folks, and I hope that you enjoy today's show, and I will be providing you with some logistical information regarding this Sunday's matchup between the Patriots and the Cincinnati Bengals. However, before I proceed with that, I just wanted to take a minute to address all of you guys out there.

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road trip this week when they attempt to snap a two-game losing streak against the Cincinnati Bengals. Paul Brown Stadium in Cincinnati, Ohio, 1 p.m. start time on Sunday. So far, the Patriots are 5-2 on the road this season, and they're playing the Bengals for the first time in Cincinnati since October of 2013 when they lost that game 13-6. And as was the case last week, the Patriots win and they're in. They will clinch a playoff berth with a victory on Sunday.

But who will be suiting up, and who won't be? Well, the Patriots injury report has had some notable names on it, including wide receiver Julian Edelman. If you recall, on Wednesday, Edelman was held out of practice with both knee and shoulder concerns listed on the report. On Thursday, he returned to action. Was still limited, but the fact that he was out there on the field is definitely a positive and an encouraging sign as we move forward into Sunday.

But there was a new addition to Thursday's report, and unfortunately, folks, it's someone that is no stranger to injuries. And that is offensive lineman Isaiah Wynn. Wynn did not participate in Thursday's practice and was listed on the report with an eye injury. Now, it's unknown whether or not Wynn's eye ailment will impact his availability for Sunday's game against the Bengals. But keep in mind, Wynn did suffer a toe injury in Week 2, didn't return until Week 12. Wynn is very effective when he's out there. The problem is he's not out there that much. Hopefully, Wynn will be okay.

Keep a sharp eye on the practice fields on Friday to see what this may mean for Sunday's game, but if Wynn is out, it definitely means a weakened offensive line, and it may make things tougher on Tom Brady and company to move the football against the Bengals defense. And speaking of Tom Brady, both he and Nakheel Harry were full participants in practice on Thursday after Brady was listed on the injury report with a right elbow, Nakheel Harry with the hip. Both of them look to be fine and are expected to play on Sunday. Others who were listed on the report, Mohamed Sanu continues to be listed and limited in practice with an ankle injury.

Defensive lineman Byron Cowart with a concussion also returned to practice. He was limited, but the fact that he was out there is an encouraging sign for him as well. Now for the Bengals, some notables like tight end Tyler Afert, defenders Geno Atkins and Carlos Dunlap did not participate in practice, but it wasn't for injury reasons, folks. They are being rested. They are both expected to play on Sunday, as well as Afert. The only concern on the injury front for the Bengals this week, defensive end Sam Hubbard is listed with a knee injury.

He's been limited in practice. But as always, Friday's injury will be a good indicator of who might or might not suit up for both teams. So as I always like to say, folks, keep a sharp eye. And as the Patriots prepare to square off with the Cincinnati Bengals, I will be joined shortly here by Matt Chatham. But first, I have a question for you. Yes, you listening out there. Are you the type of fan that knows football so well that you could choose any game and call it? Well, my bookie is the place for you because they let you turn all

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My guest today is one of the most recognizable names in all of Patriots Nation. As an NFL linebacker and a key special teamer, he spent the first six seasons of his career in New England contributing to three Patriots Super Bowl victories. He is a current analyst for Nessun, brilliant columnist for The Athletic, and a co-host of the Razor Show podcast, which is one of the most comprehensive football podcasts you'll hear anywhere, folks. It is my honor to have Matt Chatham join me today.

Matt, welcome back to Locked On, Patriots. Good to be here, Mike. Thanks for having me on. Oh, no problem. My pleasure. And perfect week, perfect day on Friday the 13th. I said in my opening, kind of quell some of the superstitions and some of the uncertainties out there. And I think you're going to be the voice of logic and the voice of reason on all of it.

To say that it's been an interesting and frustrating week in Foxborough, that's probably an understatement, Matt. But we all know about the footage fiasco, folks, and yes, that is one of the key reasons I brought Matt in today. That has become the trendy topic across the sports media realm. We'll get into that in a moment. But the rough week for the Patriots started last Sunday with a 23-16 loss to the Kansas City Chiefs. The problems with NFL officiating were clearly on display in this one, Matt, and I thought

your column this week in The Athletic was brilliant, particularly the way you explained how this is not just a matter of error on the part of the officials on the field, but also a product of the system the NFL has implemented. And you also suggested a couple of quick fixes that I think are relatively easy to be able to implement. Today, I was hoping that maybe you could expound upon that a little bit and let us know here at Locked On Patriots what you believe could be done differently so that games like the one we saw on Sunday between the Pats and the Chiefs

don't continually happen on a regular basis throughout the league. Yeah, so Mike, I'll hit on the philosophy part first. My view is really strongly held relative to what the role of an official is and how that's been gotten wrong for a decade or more, basically most of Goodell's tenure. And I think that drives problems you have with officiating. So I'll summarize it here best I can. Basically, I've always believed that officiating is sort of a background

issue in any sport. Maybe it's because I wasn't an athlete, I guess, but I presume that the reason people gather to watch these things and follow the teams is that the action on the field should be the main thing, the purity of the sport thing. Let the action drive the result. And officiating is, I don't have a better idiom or whatever for this, but necessary evil or, you know, the idea that officiating, because it's the wrong one. It's not evil. There's nothing evil about it. But it's a component that you need in a game because you need some officiating.

You need a traffic cop to move sort of action along and not have it become sort of like a, you know, a jail yard kind of situation. I completely understand that. But I think the philosophical point of view that the, the game of football has taken in contrast with say hockey and contrast with basketball or baseball, football has decided that the rules are a big part of the entertainment, that the rules and the players are, the players are competing against one another,

but a big component of the competition is who can adhere to the rules the best in pursuit of the points thing. And I think that is fundamentally just sort of a bastardation of why we're even there. And you can see it in broadcast. You can see it in the media week. You get these ridiculous press releases with the, the blue screen background of, of this week's head official and his crew and all of his stats. And, you know, there's a Twitter handle for NFL officiating and there's video content

that's put out during the week, promoting videos and ignoring problems they had during the week, just finding the few different ones that they got right. And, you know, sort of the, I don't know, basically trying to ignore the problems and it's like a promotional wing. It almost becomes sort of like a political kind of feeling thing. And I've always felt that's just so crazy because the game is so great. Why shift the focus to those kinds of things?

The in-game broadcasts, we see it. Again, I would encourage people that have become annoyed with this, as I have, to watch other sports as well. Notice how often a discussion of a rule, a debate of a rule, putting an official on the screen, putting a former official who's in broadcast now on the screen, having the two people in Booth, the color guy, and the play-by-play discuss officiating, discuss a rule, discuss. I mean, rule focus is an NFL thing, and I don't think it helps the product.

I think ultimately a better philosophy from leadership would be that, hey, rules are part of it. We have to have them, but let's massively de-emphasize these things. It doesn't matter if we're really aiming for game integrity who it is that's calling it. It should be Jerome Boger should call it the same as, I'll make a name up, Bill Anderson. It shouldn't matter who the person is. We have the rules. Let's adhere to them the same. There shouldn't be wildly different rates of infractions and calls from one

crew to the next. Let's not make them a part of the story. We've really got to stop doing that. And I think with this week's commentary about, you know, sort of rethinking the entire everything's on the table comment from NFL headquarters this week, and they're down there doing sort of the NFL owners meeting deal. And they're saying that they're going to,

they're going to reevaluate the entire process. Well, to me, it's not which rule, how we handle review, how we handle replay, how we handle challenges. It's not this rule,

that rule without the other. If you're really legitimately going to tear this down and get it right, you have to change the philosophy that backs everything you do. And it's that this is a minor, minor thing and needs to get off the front of the stage. And you'll never fix it until you do. So that's the philosophy that drives the suggestions I'm going to make. The next two that I make in the column are just things that were highlighted in the game. I think it's easy to do.

And we saw them pivot in season with the Corey Clement touchdown in the Philly Super Bowl. When we saw the idea of they're going to change what constitutes control and whether or not the slight movement would be a part of the formula. That happened. They changed in operation something that hadn't yet been codified in the text. So we know that we've seen the mid-season change stream. So it's happened in the past. It happened with that.

It happened with the lowered helmet rule. They made that rule a year ago, you know, six, seven weeks into the season. They completely abandoned it. So we know that it's not a requirement necessarily that they wait until competition committee meetings in the spring to change something. We know they can change mid-stream. So I thought last week's game, as crazy as it was, is just difficult a product it was to watch,

independent of who did or didn't get the calls. I think these things can be done. I think the two very simple things that can come from the league, it's just a suggestion. And in making it, I'm being obviously a little snarky because I know they won't. But the idea for me is that real basically this came up with a Nikhil Harry thing at the end zone. It's not as if we didn't know this in the past.

It's just it revealed a major, major problem with how we use review. We have auto-review in the event of any score. But what that does is it highlights and puts an inordinate amount of pressure on whether or not it was or wasn't called a touchdown. And that's a problem, right? If we're saying that all scoring plays are auto-reviewed, well, the greater issue is anything that is deemed to possibly be a score. Why would you want to have a sort of line in the sand that it's only auto-reviewed if he calls it that? What should be auto-reviewed is if there's ever a question at the goal line. So if we ever have a moment where, you know, someone's hit the pylon

or someone's gone across the line and it's clearly a question of whether he did or didn't score or whether he did or didn't step out of bounds, anything that happens at or near the goal line should prompt that same auto-review whether or not he called it. So you're putting, again, it's back to that core philosophy, putting too much stock or credence in whether or not the person on the field called it. I, again, say the official should not be a one-man tribunal.

It shouldn't be. They should be traffic cops. They move things along, and we have a process in place to check them, not just putting stock in what they saw. It's understandable they can't see two things at once, so we need to stop with this of sort of putting too much weight in what they saw initially, especially for this reason. A human being has one set of eyeballs. A human being cannot see two things simultaneously.

You are asking the official on the field to see his foot and to see the end line at the same time. Can't do it. And that's why what we often go by when you see things in live time from that distance is you go by an impression. So there is absolutely no reason to sort of put a line in the sand and prevent one side of it and not the other based upon what he did or didn't see. So that's my thought on that. The other one would just be stop blowing whistles too quickly.

I think that's an easy directive that can come from the league and say, hey, in moments of a potential sack, of a potential change of possession, of a potential anything, hold your whistle, hold your horses. There's no reason to be out in front of it quickly because if you blow that, you screw the ability to get it right. And the number one goal here should be to get it right. And the number one goal here should be to get it right. And if we have this stupid handcuff thing in our rules that if someone blows a whistle, then we're now prevented from getting it right on the other side,

then just a simple directive from the league about, guys, make sure you're correct. Hold it. It's okay to be a couple seconds late. It's the worst thing you could possibly do to be early and prevent us from getting it right. So I think those are two things that could be done that won't be. So that's my long-winded summation there of the whole column. Yeah, but I think it was perfect, and the analysis was spot on.

Look, in terms of your philosophy, I'm glad that you made a couple of points there that I just wanted to expound upon, and that was it's a culture of the NFL right now to have the rules dictate exactly what the product, the finished product is on the field, whereas really it should be dictated by the teams that are out there. The officials, like you said, are there to keep order. They're there to make sure that the rules are obeyed, that the game is followed, and that there isn't any type of negativity that affects the outcome of the game. Right now, the negativity, a lot of the negativity, is coming from some of the calls that we see.

So maybe that type of philosophy will be able to change. We certainly live in hope. But when it comes to the quick fixes that you just described, and I think Patriots fans can absolutely tie them back in, extra set of eyes that you discussed, and having maybe a little bit more review, things of that nature, ability to see those. Those things are happening and we saw that really

be affected by the Harry touchdown. I think that's something that Patriots fans can relate. Of course, the blowing of the whistle, everybody thinks of the Gilmore touchdown or what should have been the Gilmore touchdown. Referees are usually taught to swallow their whistle in that case and let the play happen and then they can sort it out and review. We didn't see that Sunday,

and it did end up costing the Patriots four points. So great point. Again, I highly recommend checking out Matt's column on this because he really nailed it and really, I think, brought a lot to our discussion today as well. So I greatly appreciate that. Switching gears here, and we're going to get to the white elephant in the room, Matt. As if back-to-back losses to Houston and Kansas City weren't bad enough, the Patriots did have a little more in the tank this week when it came to negativity surrounding them. And unfortunately, you've been one of the very few voices of logic since this story broke on Monday,

and I mean that sincerely. And in my opinion, that's because you're bringing to light the most important question here, and that's why. Why would the Patriots do this? Why would they record signals? The cameraman and who he worked for, along with how he recorded it and from where, I think is really just scenery for the public, most of which hate the Patriots.

They want to see them fail. But you know what? We'll put that aside for a second and think objectively. Takes like that, to me, keep them guessing like some sort of parlor game. But it also prevents them from asking, and when I say them, I mean people, fans of the game, it prevents them from asking the most important question, why? Why would the Patriots do this recording? And you've been explaining all week about how the signals are

transmitted via audio now. They've been for the last 10 years. Could you expound upon that a little bit and let us know, myself included, why there's very little to no value in using this type of footage for a competitive advantage? Yeah, I mean it's obviously one of my biggest aggravations,

Mike. I think you can really trace it back to any of these sort of pseudo scandals that have involved the Patriots. The first one, I think to discuss the one now, you have to first understand the context of the first air quote spy gate and the value, the entire packaged value of having a digital copy of someone's signals.

So back to 2007. And again, remember, it's not, this is the thing that drives me nuts. And I expanded on this more than I'll do here, but on our own podcast this morning on The Athletic. But the big thing that drives me nuts about, but I think there's sort of a little bit of intellectual dishonesty that goes on when people talk about the first spy gate and maybe people don't understand it. And I think it's, it's, it's players need to push this narrative,

players that understand players and coaches that understand the value of what was then and then what's no longer the case. And what that is is original spy gate was about having a digital copy of a signal. It wasn't about having the signal. We all have the signal. If you have a set of eyes and a legal pad and a pair of binoculars, which is what every coach or scout in the stadium and every person in the stadium could do, everyone has the signals.

Everyone can write on a legal pad and put it into a Word document or put it into an Excel spreadsheet. Guy touches shoulder, guy touches elbow, team runs cover one. I mean, I'm being super simple there in saying it, but that's what it is. You know, that's when you're, when you're looking at someone's signals, that's what you're sort of trying to break down. Guy touches bill of cap, but die touches belt buckle. They run play X. That's what it is. And ultimately, if you have a digital copy of it, if you have a recording of it, you're eventually committing it to text so it can be used by someone else.

You're basically saying, I'm seeing the person touch their nose, touch their arm, and then looking to the field and seeing what they run. Then you put it to text. If you don't have the digital copy, you literally have the same thing. If you have a scout looking or a coach with a pair of binoculars writing down those same things, he touched his nose, then he touched his chin, then they ran X. You have the same thing. The only thing the digital copy does is helps expedite the administrative part of it for the intern

that's cutting the shit down in the middle of the night. That's all it is. That's literally the only, the digital copy just helps the poor schmuck in the middle of the night that has to break this down and give it back to the coaches. It helps him with time. That's it. And that's what I don't think people ever understood.

You already have the signal. If you have a pair of eyes, you can already write down the information that would be given to the player, which would be transformed from the digital version to a piece of paper anyway. So there's very, very, very little value. It's just a time helper for that guy. And that was, anyhow, that's what that used to be. And if you take what was a very minimal value before,

and because this is very important, guys, this was never, ever alleged and never was done for use in the game itself. It was used for future games. And why that old value was very minimal anyhow is because everyone's signals change the next week. So all you can even plausibly do with that old version, take the digital copy, commit it to paper, teach it to the player, you can only then tell

them you have to be very, very reserved in what value you put into it because it might change. So for example, we come into a second game, we come into the game the next week and we know that, hey, last week when they touched their ear and their elbow, and again, this is all years and years ago, touched their ear and elbow, they ran this coverage. You're going to have to see them do that multiple times in this next game to believe it because you presume it's changing. And back in those days, you have three people on the field. You've got one guy with maybe a bright cap, another guy with bright gloves,

and then a coach. You have three different people giving the calls, and you don't know which one's live. So that's how it used to be. And because it would change and because it was of very little value to begin with, that's why Mr. Kraft kind of gave Bill a hard time in saying, what little use is this? And he's saying extremely little, 1%.

He says, that's why you're a schmuck. That's the old quote. Because it wasn't that valuable then, A, because it would change, and B, because all it's doing is cutting down the time that the guy had to collect the information to give the players. That's all there is. And it drives me nuts that for a decade, media members, especially from nationals, especially from other networks that are out of this market,

didn't grasp and communicate well that very, very simple point. Instead, it was easier just to say they stole their signals. What does that even mean? So anyway, that's the context to hold. The context of new is that those signals no longer exist on a football field. They're transmitted, as you said, Mike, through digital. It's coming through a radio wave. It's going through a signal in a helmet.

So what myself and then Jeff Schwartz also did that we shared in our pod is we went back and started checking out games. We just watched them back, guys. We know that the play signal itself is no longer gestured in. It's no longer gestured in. We all know that. It's a fact. Occasionally, in the event that the headsets were to go down

or if you get into a situation after the headsets have gone off, that's at the 15-second mark, they come in at 40 on a live play, 40-second clock goes down to 15. So after 15, they would have to be signaled in by hand. But that happens on such a minuscule amount of time. Maybe you can find one or two of these questionable plays in the course of 120 in a game where that actually happened. It's so rare that it's so ridiculous to think that someone,

for what I mentioned 10 years ago was of extreme little use, to now go and say there might be one 120th of those kinds of plays. It's just so implausible and stupid to try to pretend that shooting a camera at a sideline now would have any real value. It just doesn't. So the things that people, and I know fans are now going to watch this and look at it more because they've been made aware of it, at least I hope they do. I know media members hopefully will.

But take out your binoculars. Stare at a sideline for the entire game. What you're going to see is a guy on the sideline raising a hand, putting up a finger, putting up two fingers, maybe two hands. Those are not play signals. Those are personnel groups. And personnel groups are of zero value now because the other team is forced to wait for you to change.

That's the new rule that there would be no benefit, no value in having advanced knowledge of what their personnel signal was. It's the new rule that there would be no benefit, no value in having advanced knowledge of what their personnel signal was. It's just silly because you can see with your own sort of naked eyeball who is and isn't running on the field. And even the effect that you thought by knowing in advance what the signal was for people running in and out, there's a pause on matching personnel groups anyway. You're forced to stop and wait if there's a pause on matching personnel groups anyway. You're forced to stop and wait. If you make a change, the other group's allowed to match.

So there's no value whatsoever in advanced knowledge of it. It's just stupid. So, again, it took me, you know, 10 minutes with you to walk through all that. So that's why I think in part, you know, a lot of media members don't care to know, a lot that would love to just smear the team, a lot that just like hot takes. They don't want to spend time explaining that. They'd rather not know. It's sort of the put your hands over your eyes and ears about how air pressure in a ball works.

That's what's happening. So that's the facts of what it is. And the easiest thing and the thing that drove me, and I think Jeff Nutz as well, is going back and looking at this. If you're going to have some reporting that, oh, yes, and there was reporting from the reporter that helped put this out there for the Bengals and the NFL, that, oh, teams still signal personnel from the sideline with their hands,

and they make adjustments that way as well. Well, those are the kind of things that I don't need reporting on. No one needs reporting on. It's checkable. Just turn on the game tape. Turn on the broadcast, which still can show those parts. turn on the All-22, which shows those parts. All you really need to do is look at the people who are on the field and look and see if their attention turns to the sideline. And the rarity of occasions where you can find

someone looking there, you would understand that it happens at such a tiny, tiny percentage, and it changes for the next week, as we mentioned, that it's of complete zero value, especially when we talk about an adjustment, hand signal on the field. Even if that hand signal was made by someone on the sideline, in the rarity of instances it might be, it's also then done by that quarterback or the mic linebacker to everyone else. So you have it, again, you don't need it to be recorded from the sideline. It's just so obvious it obviously makes my head hurt.

It makes me angry, but that's what it is. Absolutely, and you know what? I thank you on behalf of Patriots Nation, certainly the listeners here on Locked On Patriots, for lending that logic, lending that insight that you're not going to get in the national narrative. You're not really going to get it anywhere else, because at this point, it's just

easier to just dismiss it in office saying, oh, well, it's cheating. It's a competitive advantage. Why were they doing it? Well, here is why they wouldn't do it. And that, to me, is the essence of that. I love pop culture references. Anyone who listens to the show knows. The quote that's been sticking in my head all week is Jeff

Goldblum from Jurassic Park, where you're so determined to prove that you could, you didn't stop to think if you should. And that really tells the essence of this. Why would the Patriots even bother doing this if there's such little to no value, knowing all the stuff that they've gone through with Spygate in the past?

Why would they bother doing that? I think your answer pinpointed it. I think you nailed it. And I greatly appreciate that. And you've written a lot of logic on that. Yes, Matt. Mike, I was just going to want, in the event that we were exiting out of this topic, I wanted to lend one last little piece of perspective, and I think this is super important. Please do.

You've got the platform, bud. Not in relation to those two things we talked about, but another thing that I think for people who work think who, for people who work in media, for people who work in TV specifically, for people who are in a media in the press box each and every week, this was another part of it that really drove me nuts. And everyone who has these jobs knows the dramatic, significant difference between an organization's media

company and an organization's video department. They are two separate, distinct things. In the event that this had been the actual team operations video department, it had been some of their camera people, the people that do tape practices, the people that do tape games for the legal portions that are used. If it had been those people set up in another city, okay, we got a story now, right? Okay, this is even as little of value as what I'm telling you is found on staring at a sideline in 2019, it still would be them repeating the activity, you know, of having their video department do it. But here's the thing that pissed me off I think the most about this is we all know that the dot coms and the media companies are not football operations.

So even using the phrase they, like the Patriots, the Raiders have a separate segment, a separate business unit. The Packers have a separate business unit. The Giants have a separate segment, a separate business unit. The Packers have a separate business unit. The Giants have a separate business unit. These two entities have nothing to do with one another. A lot of these cameramen that work for KSP have never had a conversation with Bill Belichick in their life. Many of them have never even passed him in a hallway. Many of them don't even know the guy.

And one of the things that bothered me is because I work with freelancers a lot. Nesson, we use them a lot because we're a baseball company and hockey. And a lot of times when there's a game broadcast, their main guys are off doing other projects. They're at the Bruins game. They're up at TD Garden or they're at Fenway or whatever. They're at Fenway or whatever. They're on the road. So what this was was, you know, one producer, not one of the several top guys there at KSP, but one of the guys that's a nice long-term tenured guy that works there but got kind of the crappy assignment, unfortunately. You know, he had to go to Cleveland.

He had to go do this web series thing that they're putting on. It's really cool, quite frankly. It's a neat little thing they've been doing to highlight a lot of the grunt work that goes around an organization. But he was sent out there and, again, has nothing. This guy who's the producer has no contact or connection or anything at all to do with the football side. He's out there doing this job, and because the main cameramen are off doing the Patriots game,

they get a couple freelancers to hold the camera, to put up the white balance in front of the camera, to frame the shot, to hit record, and to sit there and watch the monitor because the other guys are off elsewhere. I work with freelancers all the time, and these are something that I think if you're really wanting to give an intellectually honest perspective to an audience,

you let them know there's no reason to sort of make these guys look bad. They're just regular Joes working for a day wage. They don't know all the rules, quite frankly. So if the error was that the producer that travels should have informed them, yeah, I get that. But let's not make this freelancer guy look as if he was doing something nefarious. Everyone knows that's not the case. Several of the freelancers that I work with that Nesson uses on days where they're not available, they couldn't name two guys on the Patriots.

A lot of them, the joke is some of them don't even follow sports. They don't know. They're video people. They set up cameras, and they're really nice folks that are not involved in some scheme. So the idea that this was done in plain view of everyone, with a guy who believed his credential allowed him to do that because he just didn't know any better, and in fairness to the guy for KSP that was setting it up, he is allowed to do exactly what he was doing when he's at home.

What the KSP guys do during games is you'll see those in-game scenics where you're looking at the video board and you're seeing the shot of Scar yelling at the guys on the sideline to get it going this series, or the close-up shot on the sideline of Josh whispering to Bill about something, or the cut scenes that are used on video boards, that are used on Patriots This Week and Patriots All Access and the stuff throughout the week. That's what your media company stuff does.

They actually do tape the sidelines all the time, and they're allowed to do that in a week. So if he gets sent on assignment and doesn't realize, oh, when I'm in another building, I'm not allowed to do it, it's pretty reasonable to understand. It's not nefarious. It's not reasonable to understand. It's not nefarious. It's not espionage. It's just a guy making an unfortunate mistake

and not the freelancer that's working with them not knowing the rules. It sucks. It's a mistake. Sounds like someone's going to get punished for it. But I don't see the reason to drag these people through the mud. If you work in media and know that, yeah, we get that this has absolutely nothing to do with the football side, and if we're being honest, there's no competitive advantage in it either.

So I don't know. It ultimately boiled down to some people wanting to smear other people, and I think that's unfortunate. And I'm so glad that you brought that point up about the media and about the people that work for Kraft Productions because they've been taking a lot of hits this weekend and you know this week especially and probably will into the weekend as well but at this point you know to malign someone when you really don't know exactly the background and what their rules are what their interactions are

between these two teams and between these two separate entities, which I think is a big point that people need to always remember. It is publicized, but it's not something that I think is hammered home enough, that craft productions and football operations are two completely separate. You mentioned that these guys probably do not have any interaction, little to none, with Bill Belichick and that type of interaction. So thank you for that insight, especially from someone that has worked not only in print media, but also in visual media and the interactions that you have with these guys with

Nesson. That is such great insight. I thank you for bringing that today to Lockdown Patriots. And again, I can't be happy enough or appreciative enough for you lending your wisdom and counsel with the referee situation and now with this. However, before I let you go today, my friend, I wouldn't be doing my job if I didn't remind you that there is indeed a game on Sunday. I know a lot of you remember that there is a game on Sunday. On paper, this Bengals team is 1-11, and a casual look at this says the Patriots should roll. But my question to you is, first of all, what are you looking for in the Pats and the Bengals game, specifically from the offense, which has been maligned a little bit lately?

Is this finally the game where Tom Brady gets the passing game on track? Or because the Bengals' running game is so abysmal, or run defense, I should say, is so abysmal, ranking in the bottom of the league, is this a game where the Patriots should really rely on the run more? I think it's a week where the Patriots have to really turn their focus internally, and they've got to get better. And I think the message internally has got to have been it doesn't matter who you play. If you don't play better, you won't beat anyone.

And I think in part, you know, Kansas City's run defense is pretty atrocious too, and they looked pretty awesome last week. So I think you can't deride the Bengals for what they've done too much when you're having your own sort of issues. I think the message is if you play like this, anyone can beat you. And the one thing that I always – that Coach Belichick always does a great job of doing is sort of, yeah, you're better than this team. You should be better than this team.

Yeah, this team has not put it together and won a lot, but this isn't college football. This is not, hey, you're Alabama and they're Austin Peay, and you're going to win by 70 points. There's none of that in the NFL. And I think it should pull it together really quickly. If the Patriots would happen to be playing, say, the Seahawks this week, I think obviously the tone and tenor, you sit up a little straighter,

oh, the Seahawks, Russell Wilson, blah, blah, blah. The Bengals lost to the Seahawks by a point. They get a loss. That obviously contributes to their ugly record they have. But they played the team close. So we're not talking about some sort of power five versus a Division III score or something like that. The same Bengals team lost to the Bills by four.

They lost again. They lose a lot. But it was a tight game. So, again, however you feel about these teams, they lost to the Ravens by six. Again, the Bengals aren't good as far as getting across the end line and winning the game, but these are tight games. I think you can go to even more recent stuff. They lost to the Steelers, who have been playing much better late in the year,

by six points. At the end of the day, the point is it really helps you sit up in your chair. Geno Atkins is still a very good player. He can still kill you. Carlos Dunlap's a solid pro. Alden Tate is now on IR, but Boyd's an okay receiver. He's a productive young player. He's an up-and-coming guy.

There's a lot of good feelings about Joe Mixon, but collectively, yes, they're not good enough to put it across the end line, but these are real pros. They don't suck. If you come out and sleepwalk through this, yeah, the Bengals will beat the Patriots. So I think it helps sort of codify the message

and get them to focus a little better. Again, great point, spot on. And that's exactly what I have been saying for the past couple of days in my appearance on Lockdown Bengals with the crossover that we do here on the Lockdown Network and as well as yesterday's show. This is a game that the Patriots have to show up. Look, you make

great points about, especially since Andy Dalton retook the reins in Cincinnati, these are losses that are only one-score game losses, and they're competitive. He keeps them competitive. He keeps them in games, so they have to be careful. You mentioned Tyler Boyd. Tyler Boyd, definitely a concern for the Patriots in terms

of being able to shut them down. He's a pretty good possession receiver. Leads the team 73 catches, 833 yards, three touchdowns. He can put it in the end zone. I think the Patriots will be a little bit smarter on defense. I think they've been great on defense. I think they will continue that. And I think in terms

of offense, they need to know that they have to put points up early and set the tone early on this one. Matt, I can't thank you enough for your time, your insight, your wisdom and counsel, second to none, exactly why we brought you in today here. And I really appreciate you taking the time to appear here today on Locked On Patriots. Before I let you go... in case they don't, where they can follow you on social media and where they can always catch your great work.

Social media, so Twitter at Chatham58. On Nessun, we have this new show, Nessun After Hours, which has been really fun with Emerson Lazia and, and Sealy Godwin. We've been rolling with that. So on most evenings throughout the week with that stuff, always with Nesson, we have our pregame chat two hours for kickoff with Doug Kydes, Zach Cox and myself,

both the athletic, I write my column each week. It was just up most recently, as we all talked about with the officiating stuff, but then we have the razor show podcast that I do every Monday as a wrap on the game, and then again later in the week, which is going to be up, I think, later today. So that's always there. And then always check out Jeff Howe and Nick Underhill as well.

Those guys put out great stuff for the athletic, and they do another version of the Razor Show in the midweek. So I'm out and about all over the place during the season and have fun with it. And we're really winding here to the end, Mike. So it's getting close to the end line. This season's only maybe a month or two we'll have to go. We truly are. I remember the last time we brought you in, it was so early on in the season. And

it really just absolutely evaporates over time. And we're getting down to that final stretch and ready to head into the playoffs. But Matt, thank you for your appearance today. Thank you for coming on and for lending your information. Again, I think it makes us better football fans and it makes us more knowledgeable to

hear what you have to say. So once again, thanks. Enjoy the game on Sunday and enjoy the rest of the season. And hopefully we may have you back on in the playoffs. If it works for you, we'd definitely love to hear on Locked On Patriots. You're too kind, Mike. Thanks for having me on.

Take care. Enjoy the weekend. My pleasure. Enjoy the weekend. And it's that time again, folks. Time for me to make my weekly prediction. And like your New England Patriots, my record hasn't been what I've hoped for the last two weeks. But this is the holiday season, and it's

the season of renewed hope. And folks, that's what I believe will happen again this weekend as the Pats take on the Bengals. On offense, the Patriots must play better, period. You heard Matt Chatham say that, and I could not agree more. They need to get Nikhil Harry, Philip Dorsett, Mohamed Sanu, and Jacoby Myers more involved in the passing game. It all begins with Brady's protection, but that could take a hit if Isaiah Wynn is out

this weekend. Regardless, they have to start winning some battles on the line. Getting more from the tight ends, especially Ben Watson and even Matt Lacoste, would help, and that's going to be needed if the Patriots want to effectively move the ball. On defense, the Pats defensive front should be able to handle the Bengals offensive line, who have allowed 43 sacks. If the Patriots can do that and limit the Bengals offense, that's going to allow them to dictate where and when the pass rush is coming from.

Look for the linebackers to make a return to prominence and have a big game this week. In the final analysis, this should not and cannot be viewed as a cakewalk. As you heard both Matt and I say, the Bengals always keep things close. That's a trend of their games. But the loss is also a trend, and I look for that to continue this week as well. My prediction is the Patriots get back in the win column, clinch a playoff berth, and take this one by a final score of 24-14. And I will be back on Monday to recap Sunday's Pats-Bengals matchup.

I'll break it all down for you, and we'll see if I was right in my assessment. As always, make sure to join me each and every day on the Locked On Patriots podcast, and subscribe to Locked On Patriots via your preferred podcast provider. Once again, I'm Mike DeBate. Huge thanks again to Matt Chatham for his time and insight today, but most of all, I thank you so much for listening and for staying locked in to Locked On Patriots. Have a great weekend, everybody.

Enjoy the game on Sunday. We're officially on to Cincinnati.