Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Crossover Thursday — New England Patriots vs. Cleveland Browns in Week Ten — 11/11/2021

Episode Date: November 12, 2021

It’s Crossover Thursday heading into Week Ten of the the 2021 NFL Season. Join hosts Mike D’Abate of Locked On Patriots and Jeff Lloyd of Locked On Browns as they preview this matchup between the New England Patriots and the Cleveland Browns from Gillette Stadium in Foxboro, Massachusetts on Sunday, November 14th.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order.BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus.GetupsideJust download the FREE GetUpside App and use promo code TOUCHDOWN to get up to 50¢/gallon cash back on your first tank.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Patriots fans and Browns fans, it is week 10 of the 2021 NFL season, and it's going by so quickly. No one can believe that we're already at week 10, but here we are, and this matchup proves to be a great one. New England Patriots, Cleveland Browns, this Sunday, November 14th, 1 p.m., Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Massachusetts. And because it's Thursday, it is Crossover Thursday here across the Locked On Podcast

Network. Here today to break this one down, myself, Mike DeBate, host of the Locked On Patriots podcast, and the esteemed host of Locked On Browns, Jeff Lloyd. Jeff, always an honor, always a privilege to join you here on the microphone for these crossovers. Yeah, and I appreciate the check cleared, obviously, with the esteemed guest here today. But no, very appreciative, Mike. It is.

It's going to be an exciting one here. Obviously, the Browns have some questions that only can be answered medically here over the next couple of days here. But the Browns obviously needed that game last week. And they kind of have now righted the ship, so to speak, but then, you know, with every,

you know, time you kind of catch a wave, you lose a wave, you know, dealing with some things right now. And we'll obviously know more as the week goes by, but it is Thursday. It's crossover Thursday.

So we'll break down the game the best we possibly can. Absolutely. We always do here on It's Crossover Thursday. So we'll break down the game the best we possibly can. Absolutely. We always do here on the Locked On Podcast Network. And these crossovers are some of the favorite episodes across all of the fan bases that listen to our great shows here on the network. I know a lot of Patriots fans love the crossovers. And this is one that I know a lot of sharp eyes and ears are going to be fixed to for a lot of different reasons. Jeff, we might as well get the white elephant in the room out of the way. And over the course of the last week or so, it has been a lot of talk surrounding now former Cleveland Browns wide receiver.

And what a lot of Patriots fans believed would be a wide receiver taking a snaps here in Foxborough. And that's Odell Beckham Jr. As we're recording right now, Odell has yet to actually sign anywhere, but there are still rumblings that the Patriots could possibly be in the mix. From the sources I'm talking to, I don't see it happening, but again, folks, I'm not able to confirm or deny anything at this point. Rather than talk about where Odell might end up, very quickly, jeff what happened

toward the end there why did this relationship deteriorate and what are your thoughts on what the future might hold for odell beckham jr well as everybody knows and you know within 2020 it wasn't really working that well everybody's going to go back to a dallas cowboy game you know where odell put up a monster effort but part of that was on a wide receiver pass touchdown from Jarvis Landry. The other was an individual effort on a wide receiver reverse. There was nothing really ever that was just great about the Odell-Baker relationship. It was never a good working relationship. It never worked out the way anybody thought it would.

Everybody just assumed you have this young, dynamic wide receiver who may be tired out with an older organization and the Giants going to this upstart, younger franchise with kind of a renegade quarterback. Everybody just said, wow, this matchup should just work. And it just didn't. And the thing is, Baker Mayfield, and I refer to him often as a painter, he uses the entire palette. The Browns have always had numerous skill players on the field around Baker Mayfield. He's always found a way to keep everybody involved. It's really difficult to do that with a player of the ilk of Odell Beckham Jr. or the player that was of the ilk of Odell Beckham Jr. He wants his 13. He wants his double-digit targets week in, week out. In this offense, nobody's going to get that. Nobody's going to get that with Baker

Mayfield. Nobody's going to get that with the way the Browns are currently constructed. And, you know, he came back week three against the Bears, five for 71, looked pretty good. And a lot of people were saying, hey, maybe, maybe. And I don't know if it's, you know, if it's something between each of them, if it's something on each one of them. It just never worked. And once Odell came back, Baker looked strong through three weeks.

And after that, it just was going back to this non-working relationship there's a good you know what what was going to happen and i reached out and people i could talk to said the browns were ready to basically go down with this you know they had no thoughts of releasing odell beckham jr before you know odell's camp basically tipped their hand um but one week away from the situation you go into cinc into Cincinnati and it looks like this quarterback, this offense, this young team that we really, really, really enjoy. And we think they have a lot of facets, which leads to the success. It was obvious they made the right move. Where does he go? And this is the thing. I think Odell's camp is a little bit confused as to

what is the best for him right now. And I'm sure they're probably talking money with teams right now. Teams right now are saying, look, man, you're still getting about $10 million this year. You got paid $10 million. You want to come fix your name, enhance your value in free agency? That's the route maybe we're looking for here. Because if he comes in and he's the least bit of distraction, especially for New England, where you have a rookie quarterback starting to find his way, big, big thing that I wouldn't recommend for the Patriots to do right now.

And so where he goes, it's going to be interesting because, you know, he's not going to go anywhere and just try to be the, you know, he's not going to be the fix-all, cure-all to anything. Somebody's looking for an extra weapon, not the weapon, which is going to always be the difficult thing for Odell because as he gets older now, I don't think he is viewed around the league the way so many people think he is it has been since 2017 since Odell Beckham Jr. was a dominant wide receiver in this league yeah without any question and I think you make some great points and look

without any question I know Patriots fans were hoping to see Odell as a member of the New England Patriots again folks by the time you're listening to this, who knows? Stranger things have happened. Maybe he will be. Once again, I'm predicting that it probably won't be the case, but you never know for sure. Bottom line, it will be an interesting fit to see where he goes and how this thing emerges from there.

But you also have led quite nicely into what we really should be talking about today, and that is this matchup between these two teams, five and four, each team needing a win to remain in the hunt and really in the driver's seat when it comes to controlling their own fate for a playoff run. And Jeff, we'll start with a good subject because we obviously we just talked about one that is not really, I think, you know, to top of mind with the Cleveland Browns fans right now. One they probably would want to forget. But you mentioned the Bengals game last week. And this team is starting to emerge and starting to show what this offense could look like now with Baker Mayfield once again taking control, taking the reins of it.

They're definitely, you know, good receivers on this team. Jarvis Landry remains there. One thing that's impressed me about the Browns is their ability to operate mostly in two tight end sets. And they have two great ones to do it, David Joku and Austin Hooper. And they even throw in Harrison Bryan at the time. And, you know, you can run those three tight end sets. Bill Belichick was asked about that earlier today. Tell us a little bit about this Browns passing game and how they might look to exploit a Patriots secondary that can be had if you know how to attack it.

Well, there's no mistake that the Browns absolutely love to run the football and they have every reason to. You know, when you have Nick Chubb, you have Kareem Hunt. Granted, Nick Chubb right now in the COVID protocol. Granted, Kareem Hunt will not be back this week. But then even still, you get to the situation like they did with the thursday night game you can throw in the artist johnson and get 22 carries for 145 yards so they love the running game now uh in order when part of the reason why it works so well is you have tight ends who block and block very very well david najoku has made monumental improvements over the years as a blocker austin hooper came here as a good blocker so a number one you put them on the field,

they're athletic. Hooper's athletic. Bryant's athletic. David Najoku's athletic. But there is the premise of, I put this personnel on the field. A lot of teams put 12, 13 on the field, and it automatically screams running the ball.

That's what it screams. But it doesn't necessarily mean that way for the Browns because you can still create athletic mismatches due to how athletic their tight ends are. They can use Harrison Bryant and they can come out in 12 or 13 personnel. They can take David Njoku, make him a big slot. They can split them out wide. They can do the same thing with Harrison Bryant. They can use Austin Hooper in the slot. So personnel doesn't dictate for them essentially what they're going to do or essentially what formation they're going

to use. It's only a skill group that's on the field. So, you know, they think that our tight ends or bigger or stronger than your safeties. Okay. No problem. We'll exploit that. You know, your corners, if we run short, you know, routes where we're looking to get yards after the catch, we think our tight ends are going to be able to get past your cornerbacks and get into another level. We also think that our tight ends are more athletic than your linebackers.

Traditionally, you want to try, you know, if you can eliminate a tight end with a linebacker, you try to do that. They mix it up so well. And they could literally play 12 or 13 personnel the entire game if they wanted to and have some success. And Baker has always loved tight ends. He loved tight ends, even though he was, you know, throwing the ball 60 times a game down in Oklahoma.

He was certainly featuring Mark Andrews a ton during those days. Baker loves tight ends. It helps him because, you know, with Baker only being six feet, having, you know, the ability to look at six foot three, six foot four tight ends is one thing that kind of, you know, can make up for the fact that he is not as tall as you would like your quarterback to be. It's just a great situation for them.

They run well out of it. They're really, really athletic there. They invested in this position for a reason. They don't maybe get the return in the receiving game that they've probably always been hoping for, but the fact that it works so well and basically changes the complexion of what you think of 12 or 13 personnel going on in the field, it just gives them advantage when they go that route, and it's certainly the best personnel group they use. Yeah, without any question, and I think that in a lot of ways, when you look at how

versatile this offense can be, and I know Patriots fans are probably looking at this from afar and saying, well, Kareem Hunt's not going to be activated. Nick Chubb is in, you know, COVID protocol and no one knows his status. And oh, now all of a sudden, maybe this offense can be had and the best defense is playing pretty well. And I know we'll probably talk about that in a few moments, but at the same time, there is such versatility in those two or three tight end sets. It allows the wide receivers to be able to get into routes. And it also allows the running game, like you said, and Jonas Johnson becoming, uh, you know, a very prolific runner and showing his prowess in those areas is definitely big. And it's something that I know Patriots fans are very much, uh, excited to see, and they will continue to see, um, you know, I don't know how excited they'll be, but they'll definitely be intrigued by it without any question to see exactly what this team can do.

So that type of versatility that we see now in the Patriots, or I should say in the Browns running game and their passing game, it's going to be something that New England fans are definitely going to need to keep a sharp eye, as I like to say, on locked on Patriots, because it will be something that will continue to give them difficulty as they game plan for it. Jeff, I want to switch gears for a second and switch over to the opposite side of the ball, because as much as I enjoy what the Browns can do offensively, both in their running game and even in their passing game, there really is something to be said about the defense for this team. And if you want to talk about solid at all three levels, folks, this Cleveland Browns defense can do it all. They're the third-ranked run defense in the NFL. As far as pass rush and as far as a pass defense, they employ two of the most fearsome pass rushers in the game. Miles Garrett is as good as it gets in that department.

Jadeveon Clowney, obviously, right there with him. These guys can get after the quarterback. And that is a very solid secondary as well. When you look at the strengths of this team defensively, what has really stood out to you about their prowess? And what unit do you think is going to be paramount this weekend against this Patriots team to bring the W home for Cleveland? Well, we tried to tell everybody as this went on, and the Browns made a ton of effort on the defensive side of the ball

this offseason through free agency, through the draft. And the key was going to be, and we tried to tell everybody, look, this isn't something that you're just going to throw out there week one, week two, and expect it to be where you want it to be and there were a lot of miscommunications early there was a lot of you know i missed you know tendency pickups you know what i'm saying where you play with somebody for so long you can kind of feel when he's going to go off script and what you got to do to compensate and you're gonna you know you know he's going to gamble but i gotta you know i gotta basically play insurance because he gambled and it's hard

to do that when you just haven't had enough reps together. Browns are starting eight new starters this year. Miles Garrett is a holdover. Sione Takitaki is a holdover. Denzel Ward is a holdover. Other than that, everybody is brand new. So with that, it's going to take time. But there were a lot of talented players.

Greg Newsome, Greedy Williams really, really solidified this second cornerback role. And at times had to solidify the first cornerback role because Denzel Ward was injured. They're both different players than him. They're longer players. Greg Newsome is really, really starting to develop right in front of us. And it's just not his feet sometimes. It's his intelligence. And then you see a week last week like Cincinnati where he is all over the receiver at the catch

point. Even times where he was beat, had had recovery speed to make that play. He's been really special. It's taken a while for John Johnson III to get acclimated into this defense. And it's funny because John Johnson III getting to watch him now kind of reminds me of somebody that probably would be a Bill Belichick favorite because he can do so many types of things. And he is a 10-time more intelligent player than he is athletic. But they're finally starting to get him into his comfort zone they would pat him they had to play him a lot in

center field early it's just not john johnson's game and now they're getting him closer to the line of scrimmage they're getting an opportunity where he can kind of disguise his own coverage confused quarterbacks you saw that in the denver bronco game then you just saw the smarts denzel ward jumped the slant last week got the ball ball in the air. John Johnson III was there to clean it up with an interception. So they've really started to come together as a secondary. Linebacker unit. You were doing really, really well with Jeremiah Usu-Koromoa.

He is slated to return this week. We'll see if he does come off IR to play this game. Anthony Walker has been physical as a linebacker. Not the best athlete, but whatever he gets to, he tackles. My concern from this defense this week, the Browns don't really possess a true defensive tackle that starts. Malik Jackson, his calling card has always been as a pass rushing interior guy.

Malik McDowell, he's filled a role, and there's been times where he's looked really good, but he's also talking about a guy right now who's kind of gassed. He's certainly hitting the rookie wall in his first year here at 25. The Viscans come soon enough from Malik McDowell. They're not very good handling the run of the interior. And it's not like Pittsburgh killed him with it, but Pittsburgh kind of like Novocaine him with it. Three and a half yards, four yards, three and a half yards, two yards, but five yards, just enough to keep it going and keep the ball out of Cleveland's hands long enough that Pittsburgh was able to pull out a win here. That is my biggest concern.

And I know the Patriots right now possess a pretty good running attack. I'm not ready to agree with Bill Simmons on the Patriots running attack and how great he thinks it might be, but that is something that's going to be a cause of concern this week, and especially, and look, Mac Jones, we're going to get to him. He's been playing well, and this is what I went through with Bengals fans is you know there's playing well there's avoiding the pass rush but I don't think people truly understand this Browns pass rush till about 30 seconds after the game is over when they played this Browns pass rush

absolutely and the Patriots will definitely get an up-close and personal look at that pass rush. They might be getting some reinforcements back along that offensive line. Trent Brown returning to practice on Wednesday. Does it mean that he'll be active in time for Sunday's game? Also, you mentioned Mac Jones and his ability to handle the pass rush. Has he seen a fearsome pass rushing unit like this? Well, he's held some pretty good ones, but this is at another level. We're going to talk about the Patriots and what they may bring to the table when this episode of the Locked On Crossover podcast continues here on

Crossover Thursday. Locked On Patriots, Locked On Browns. I'll be on the hot seat next when we continue. And we appreciate everybody for listening in here to Crossover Thursday. Appreciate everybody, at least Mike does, for making Locked On Patriots your first listen every day. I, myself, Locked On Browns, hope everybody makes it your first listen every day, day in, day out coverage, whatever podcast platform you use. Locked On Patriots, Locked On Browns, always available, always free. Mike, and it's funny.

Now it's in year two post-Tom Brady, and I was talking obviously to a good friend of yours today, a good friend of mine, Mark Schofield, and we were talking about it seems very Patriots. It seems very Bill Belichick. Here we are closing in on Thanksgiving. The Patriots are starting to find who they are as a franchise. Three straight wins, getting the offense to do what they needed to do.

The defense, you know, taking advantage of lesser teams when they have the opportunity. You know, granted, you know, he's not here anymore. And a lot of this was always going to be about, you know, what is bill going to do basically on the other side of the 18th hole you know as far as you know his encore run here with the patriots but the feel of it and the way they're doing it um certainly seems like not much has changed even though you've had a change at the quarterback position a huge one yeah without any question it's still business as usual here jeff in in New England. It is all about doing your job, playing your role as it's assigned, and doing the best you can in terms of being able to put forth the best effort you can on the field. New England has one with a very similar formula all throughout Bill Belichick's tenure here. Strong defense at all three levels, being able to be efficient in offense, run the ball, using the run to open

up play action, short crisp passes, timing-based offense, having a quarterback that can deliver the ball accurately on time and only where the receiver can get it. It sounds so elementary, but it's worked so well here in New England for so many years. Obviously, the offense began to emerge a lot more as Tom Brady grew in prowess, and he began to put his own stamp on exactly what this team does offensively. A lot of ways now you're seeing almost like a back to the future here in New England. You're seeing a lot of what the 2001-02 teams look like, where the quarterback is managing the game. He's doing an efficient job of being able to

make plays when he needs to but the game is mostly in the hands of the running game strong tight ends and then of course on the defensive side of the ball so got to give bill belichick a lot of credit for kind of scaling things back going back to the drawing board bringing in free agents that he knew would be able to fit his system and play well. And for the most part, a lot of those free agent signings have been very good for the New England Patriots. They've really helped to pay some dividends in bringing them back to where they are at five and four on the cusp of contending for a playoff spot. And Mike, you go back and date this team to earlier times in the Belichick beginning in the success years with Tom Brady. And I look at this roster, I look at it skill set wise, and I cannot help but just alarmingly agree with you because it's, you know, none of these guys, I mean, are the

biggest of household names. I mean, Hunter Henry is always doing what those tight ends did in those days, you know, excel around the red zone. You're running the ball well. You know running the ball. Well, you know, I almost think that, you know, Myers kind of gives me a little bit of a Dion branch type of feel. It just, it's, we trust what we do. And I think they've done a really,

really good job here with Mac Jones of just saying, Hey, we're going to let him go at this pace where we think we're comfortable. And it's not going to be, we need you to do this. It's going to be, do we, can you do this? All right. If it's not working out, that's fine. We're going to go another route because a number one, you are grooming a quarterback for the future and you want him to be as successful as he can be in year nine, as much as he is in year one, but you're still trying to churn out W's.

And I think that's been really, really impressive to see that they're letting it out W's. And I think that's been really, really impressive to see that they're letting it come to him. And there were a couple of times here in recent weeks where you're seeing he's going off of a first or a second read, finding a third read for a big play. Just impressive to see the development and the fact that the Patriots are comfortable

of letting this go at a rate that was comfortable for Mac Jones. Yeah, without any question. And that's exactly what the Patriots are doing, trying to make Mac Jones as comfortable as possible. You've seen efforts being made in that regard. The Patriots shuffled their offensive line a little bit. Mac was getting hit pretty hard for a rookie, for any quarterback. Really pressured on a lot of his dropbacks.

He was hurried an awful lot. He was under pressure, making throws under duress. Mack was still completing a high percentage of those, which is very impressive for any quarterback, let alone a rookie. But there have been circumstances where the protection around him has been a little bit better. And because the Patriots are getting strong contributions from their running game, that has helped to open things up.

Now, Patriots do have concerns of their own with the run game this week. It's not just in Cleveland where some of the running backs might be compromised and some of their attack might be altered by who is available and who is not. Damian Harris, Ramondre Stevenson, arguably their two top backs this season. Definitely not when it comes to Damian Harris. He is clearly their number one back, but remondre has been very good as well as has brandon bolden these two guys right now are in concussion protocol we're not sure uh exactly where they are or how much they're going to be able to contribute um officially they're still listed with head injuries they haven't officially been placed in concussion protocol to my knowledge so i apologize for the confusion on that terminology

but when it comes to uh these types of, Jeff, you know, as well as I do, the league takes them very seriously. And if there's any, you know, type of question as to whether or not these guys are going to be able to safely contribute, Patriots may be without one or both of their top running backs on Sunday. So if that's the case, the New England Patriots need to get a little more inventive when it comes to their offensive attack. They don't have a running back on the practice squad right now. That puts the onus squarely on the backs of J.J. Taylor, who's played sporadically throughout 2021, and Brandon Bolden, who was good old reliable in that backfield. But Brandon was not ready to be a number one every down carrier for this team.

He's better in situational runs. So this could be a problem for New England moving forward. If you talk about the difficulties that Mack may have in the comfort level, obviously his radar is going to be up a lot this week, and especially with that fearsome pass rush that you described eloquently in our previous segment, it could be a difficult day for Mac in the offense on Sunday, especially if they're missing either one or both of their top running backs. So we could be setting up here for a ball game on Sunday where we have a quarterback who's got an injured left shoulder having to throw

the ball over the place because he doesn't running backs and a rookie quarterback having to throw the ball over the place because he doesn't have any running backs mother nature if this is the case please help us out with that and again on the protocol thing as far as the concussions um donovan people's jones took a big hit on the sidelines last week was totally fine um but just the ferocity of the hit you know got to the point where the official was like oh kid just please get off the field even if it's just one play all right because it was big time look, kid, just please get off the field, even if it's just one play. All right? Because it was big time.

And he took a solid, like, still caught the ball. But, you know, luckily for Donovan Peoples-Jones, all was well afterwards. So, of course, you know, the league trying to protect their talent the best they can. Going to the defensive side of the ball here. And this is where, you know, and I've talked about this a little bit with the Patriots, is a little out of the ordinary for the New England Patriots this year was breaking out the checkbook in free agency, like looking for and being comfortable with and acquiring other people's talent. Judon was brought in. And I think to this point, I think he's basically, you know, just absolutely been everything they were hoping for.

You know, Bill obviously felt he needed some sort of dominant pass rusher. He has gone ahead and, you know, obviously brought Judon in. It's worked out very well to this point. And, you know, maybe just talk about a little bit here, you know, with what Judon is doing as far as, you know, the quickness and able to basically disrupt the quarterback, if not sack the quarterback, and how it's making the rest of, you know, the defense flow.

Yeah, without any question. I mean, Matt Judon has been, bottom line, the best free agent signing that Bill Belichick has made in the offseason. And look, this is coming from someone that has coveted Hunter Henry since I covered him in my days on the Chargers beat. I always wanted to see this kid in Patriot Blue because I just love the type of fit, the way he played the game. And I thought this just lends himself so well into McDaniels, Belichick, and the whole nine yards. But Judon has been such a breath of fresh air, and we knew it. The minute that it was announced that he was going to be signed, you just knew that this was the type of defensive signing

that could really change the complexity of the defense. But I'll be honest with you, I didn't expect this type of level of prowess out of Matt Judon, and he has been everything is advertised, if not more. The way he's able to anchor the middle part of that linebacking core, not just in run defense, which he's much better than I've ever given him credit for, than I saw him perform with in Baltimore, but also just this ability to get after the passer. He already has nine sacks. His career high is nine and a half with the Ravens. He's on pace to obliterate that and continues to get after the passer each and every week. The impact that he's had and the influence that he's had on rookie defensive tackle Christian Barmore has made these two guys one of the more fearsome pass rush tandems in the AFC East. And I think as they continue to get more comfortable with each other, you see that synergy develop. These two guys are going to be a force in defensive game planning for a lot of other offenses for many years to come. But kudos on the signing for Judon for Bill Belichick,

definitely a good one. Devon Godchow is really coming on as well. He's not playing the traditional nose tackle, but he's playing the middle part of that defensive line very well. And he's able to utilize that to anchor himself to increase the Patriots presence against the run. So those two have been great signings on the defensive side of the ball. But you can't heap enough praise on Matt Judon. And he's been excellent in the locker room, really good in the community. Just the hand and glove fit here in New England. And he's really become a fan favorite in short order.

Well, you produce in New England, they'll love you forever. Everybody knows the way that works. But now here, there's a couple more thoughts here on the defense and obviously to what concerns you might have with, you know, the Browns coming into this week. But, you know, Jackson just looks like an absolute world beater at the cornerback position, always with a way to find the ball. You know, McCourty for me, I'm here in New Jersey.

The fact that he still can play at the level he plays, you know, at his age and the rest of this secondary, it just, I don't know, man. I mean, and everybody talks about, you know, the length that Bill goes, the amount of football. It's just so crazy to think the type of run and so many people associate it, you know, with Tom Brady and the offensive side of the ball. But for so many of these years, it's been about the defensive side of the ball. And even some years where it wasn't great until week 13, 14,

and then Bill has just found a way to say, look, this is the best we have. This is the best we can do. I'm not worried about anything else. Let's just go with this. Yeah, and, you know, in a lot of ways, Jeff, there is a lot of that going on in New England on both sides of the ball. It's really kind of feeling it out and seeing what combination works best. And I will get into the defense because I know that was the thrust of your question.

But just to give you an example, the offensive line, we mentioned the shuffling earlier. Trent Brown goes down with an injury. Now, naturally, the Patriots were going to use their swing guys to try to fill that position, whether it be Yasser Duran or whether it be Justin Heron. These guys tried to fill in at right tackle. It simply did not work. Ted Karras came in, played the guard position relatively well when Shaq Mason was out for a couple of games.

But what he needed to do was take Michael Wainu, who played right tackle as well as anyone in the league last year as a rookie, and moved him from the left guard position that he had been playing previously in the season, moved him back to right tackle. And that has really been the winning combination for the Patriots, and their offensive line has looked so much better. Now with Brown potentially back into the mix, you're talking possibly reshuffling again. But one thing Belichick will do is he'll always put the best guys out there on the field that are going to help him win. He's not worried about traditional positions. He's not worried about where you're most comfortable. He's worried about where you're going to be most productive. And that's something that we see him do on the offensive side of the ball all the time.

Patriots have had some injuries and some subtractions in the secondary, and that's been a cause for concern of mine and a lot of Patriots fans this year. Jonathan Jones, their top slot cornerback out for the season with a shoulder injury. He's had surgery. He will not be back this year. So in order to compensate for that, guys like Miles Bryant called up from the practice squad, signed to the 53-man roster. Bryant is that type of hard-hitting defensive back that can be effective in the slot. You also look at someone like a Juwan Williams, who was a second round pick a couple of years ago from Vanderbilt. He hasn't really lived up to expectation,

but he's playing good football right now. And the Patriots are utilizing him in that rotation. So if they can get some contributions from guys like he Jalen Mills is starting to settle into his role as the second corner alongside JC Jackson, who has been excellent this year. That's an area of concern for the Patriots. But if they're clicking on all cylinders, it can also be a strength. So just when you think you've got this team figured out, as Roddy Piper used to say, just when you think you know the answers, Bill Belichick will change

the questions on you. And if he switches up his personnel, he can do it as well as anyone. And it's always been his calling card and what makes him so unique, unique, obviously in the future hall of famer that he will be. I'm going to get some final thoughts here. Mike debate, Jeff Lloyd, locked on Patriots, locked on Browns, closing out your crossover Thursday. Happy birthday to the Marines and to all you veterans out there. Happy Veterans Day and appreciate all that you do for us.

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Mike, I'm excited for this one because, you know, 2019 was a good game. Would have been a lot closer if, you know, Nick Chubb on that long run early didn't end up leaving the ball on the turf. I think this, for the Browns, obviously they need it. I think, I know the Patriots feel that they need it. This should be a really good matchup. And obviously right now, you know, some things are obviously in doctor's hands. Some things are obviously in trainer's hands as far as who's being available.

But you're always going to view the New England Patriots as a feather in your cap if you can get that victory. And for Belichick, you know, six and four with seven to go. You know, you've got to feel really, really good where you're at, you know, while breaking in a rookie quarterback. Yeah, without any question, the New England Patriots are entering this feeling pretty good. Winners of three straight, four out of their last five. They're back in playoff contention. But I caution New England Patriots fans not to get too overconfident in the least, and true Patriots fans are not getting

overconfident because we know exactly what's facing us this weekend, and that is a very strong Cleveland Browns team capable of beating you on both sides of the ball. We've talked about the prowess of that defense, all three levels, solid, capable of shutting down a passing game, a running game, and the blocking up front is going to be very tough for this offensive line to match. On the defensive side of the ball, they can beat you in a lot of ways. Two, three tight end sets that can be thrown at you that are very difficult to defend. Patriots backfield, the secondary, especially the safeties, Kyle Duggar, Adrian Phillips are going to need to be very active on Sunday in order to contend with the three prowess tight ends that the Cleveland Browns put out there.

And Baker Mayfield, even though the shoulder's a little banged up, this kid can still chuck it all over the field. He can make things happen. And when in doubt, you can always fall back on that running game, no matter who is running back there, whether Chubb is active for this game, whether it's Dernist, whoever is going to get the ball, you know that they're going to be able to do it effectively. Jeff, I think this is going to be a nail-biter. I think it's going to be a tough one. Both of these teams, I think, are very evenly matched. I'm going to go with my heart and my head here, and I'm going to say the Patriots pull this one slightly, but this is not going to be an easy game. I can see toss-up written all over this. I'll go with the Patriots by field goal here.

I don't think it's going to be any more than three. I think this one's going down the wire. For me, and I'm going to have to put an asterisk next to this because if you tell me the Browns are going to be able to go into this game with Nick Chubb, my confidence level is going to rise a lot. Nick is just that guy with the ability and the fact of what he does and where this offensive line is at right now. And, of course, now you're talking where you have your right guard.

Whitetail is extremely happy. His contract situation is handled. Joe Batonio, his contract is now handled. He's going to retire at Cleveland Brown most likely. So I feel really good about that if you're getting Nick Chubb into it. But if you're getting the fact where it may be limited, and this isn't a knock necessarily on Dearness Johnson. They did this the Thursday night game against Denver, but they also had Demetrius Felton that they could use a little bit, and he

had some plays in that game. They also had John Kelly, who was able to, both those guys were in the protocol. So now you're talking about Brian Hill was signed yesterday to the practice squad. They signed Dexter Williams today to the practice squad. One of those guys is going to get the call if you're not getting these other guys back on Sunday. So you do have some concerns with that. There is the Belichick concern. There's no way around it. I mean, the guy's a wizard.

He's a mastermind. And we talk about the big phrase of here always all the time, I'll show them they haven't seen. Well, there's not many teams that are capable of that anymore. And very few people have the intellectual football prowess to do that. One of them is going to be on the sidelines for the Patriots on Sunday and Bill Belichick. He can truly show you things that you haven't seen before. I remember years ago where he just wasn't rushing anybody. Everybody was like, what is this? They're playing 11 coverage. And why not? And it worked. And, you know, he is totally the mastermind of, I can show you something you haven't seen before.

But I'm confident with Baker Mayfield. I'm confident that this team now realizes they moved on from a distraction and things that were holding them back in Odell Beckham Jr. And that offense just flourished last week. Donovan Peoples-Jones is a young lightning rod. He's not going to be a guy that's going to give you, you know, seven catches for 111. It's more like three or four for 90 and usually a touchdown. He's that type of a receiver.

You can use these tight ends. And as long as they can get some push on that defensive line, and it's not a guarantee you can, you should be able to get your play action game going and get your tight ends involved. And then when you start working in your Jarvis Landry's for his type of thing, you know, they're running backs Landry's for his type of thing, you know,

they're running backs. They always been a large part of the passing game. Even if you get Nick and Dearness, neither one of these guys, that is their calling card. So that is something that could be taken away from the Browns. And they're going to have to find a way to compensate for the fact that they cannot use the running backs in the receiving game.

Like they like, like to do. I think it's, again, this is another situation where they're back to a corner very similar to where they were going in Pittsburgh last year for the playoff game, very similar to where they were going into the game last week against the Bengals with all the friction and tension that got created off the field. You know, you tell me it's Nick Chubb,

I think the Browns are going to find a way to pull this one out. If you tell me it's not Nick Chubb, then I certainly get a little bit more nervous, Mike. Yeah, without any question, I mean, Nick Chubb is that type of game changer, folks, and we're not exaggerating when we say that. Like Jeff just said, his confidence begins to rise if Nick Chubb is going to be active for this game. My confidence will continue to diminish if he's going to be active for this game because Patriots run defense can be had if you know how to attack it and Nick Chubb is that type of runner that is so good in all ways to run the football it's going to make him a nightmarish matchup to try to be able to defend so in that vein I'm still going with the

Patriots on this but yeah there's definitely an asterisk next to my enthusiasm level as well because Nick Chubb is going I think to be to be the deciding factor. And it might be too close to call here, my friends, but at this point, when you are listening to this and you know the status, that may help you gauge as to how we feel about this matchup coming up on Sunday. But bottom line, this is going to be a fun one. I, for one, can't wait to watch it. Oh, and no doubt. And, you know, look, you're always going to consider,

and until somebody tells me otherwise, you're always going to consider the New England Patriots as a measuring stick. It's just exactly what it is. There's a way around it. They are one of the best for as long as they have been. And we're going to see the way it eventually works out here. So with that, this has been Crossover Thursday on the Lockdown Podcast Network. Mike DeBate from Lockdown Patriots, Jeff Lloyd from Lockdown Browns. As always, we appreciate everybody

making our podcast the first listen. Each and every day, whatever podcast platform you use or you subscribe to, make sure Locked On Patriots, Locked On Browns are part of your rotation. With that, everybody, we will be here to talk about this for the rest of the week. We will certainly be here someday

to fire it up for postgame shows. We appreciate everyone for your listenership, and everybody have a great rest of your week, and let's all get excited for what should be a fantastic game come Sunday afternoon.