Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Crossover Wednesday: GOAT Edition with Locked On Saints - 1/8/2020

Episode Date: January 8, 2020

With a bit of a twist on the Crossover concept, Ross Jackson of Locked On Saints joins host Mike D’Abate as they compare and contrast the careers of Tom Brady and Drew Brees. Each offers insight on their performance in 2019, overcoming adversity and they attempt to answer that all-important question, ‘Who is the GOAT?”  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello to all you Foxborough faithful. Welcome to your Crossover Wednesday Goat Edition of Locked On Patriots. That's right, your daily home for news, notes, analysis, and the occasional opinion of mine on your six-time Super Bowl champions, the New England Patriots. My name is Mike DeBate. I am your host of Locked On Patriots, which of course is a part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Please feel free to reach out to me and follow me on Twitter at MDABATEFPC, and be sure to follow Locked On Patriots on Twitter at LO underscore Patriots. He's a three-time league MVP. He's a four-time Super Bowl MVP. He's a six-time Super Bowl champions.

And by consensus, he's generally considered by many to be the greatest quarterback ever to play the game. Folks, if you have to ask who I'm talking about, you might just be listening to the wrong podcast. That's right, I'm talking about Tom Brady. Unquestionably the greatest player ever to put on a Patriots uniform. Since the fall of 2001, he has been your starting quarterback here in New England. But for the first time, there is actually some question about whether or not he will be taking snaps in New England next year when the 2020 season begins. I know, folks, just the thought of Tom leaving makes you nervous. It makes us all nervous here in New England. But on Wednesday morning, something happened to provide just a little bit more clarity on what Tom Brady's future plans might be. And I'll get back to that in just a minute. But you did hear me introduce today's show as Crossover Wednesday Goat Edition. What you're probably asking yourself when you hear

me say that is, well, what's the need for a crossover on a goat edition? We've got the goat. Brady's the goat. That's all there is to it. Here in New England, there's little and no question about that. But outside of Patriots fans, not everybody believes that. I know, folks, it's hard to believe, but it's true. I'm not saying I disagree with you, but there is a quarterback that takes his snaps down in the bayou that's had himself a pretty good season. As a matter of fact, he's had himself a pretty good career. You know him as the quarterback of the New Orleans Saints, Drew Brees. And this year, despite missing some significant time, he led the New Orleans Saints back to the playoffs. And in the process, he also became the all-time regular season leader in touchdown passes, breaking the record previously held by Peyton Manning.

When it comes to regular season passing yards and pass completions, well, Drew's king of the hill there too. But when you factor in the postseason, Tom Brady is first in career passing yards and first in career touchdown passes. But in no way am I trying to take anything away from Drew Brees. He's had an amazing career. Do I believe he's the greatest of all time? Well, no, folks. I believe Tom Brady is the greatest of all time. But do I think that

those that believe in Brees can make an argument? Well, that's where Crossover Wednesday comes into play. Ross Jackson of Locked On Saints has graciously agreed to join me here on the hot seat, and we're going to talk about some of the similarities between the fan bases of the New Orleans Saints and the New England Patriots. You might be surprised how similar these two fan bases are. We'll also compare and contrast the two seasons between Brady and Brees and how no one quite expected to have these two teams end their season abruptly on wildcard weekend. We'll talk about how being a 40-something-year-old quarterback, coming off of a game that wasn't your best,

and having some contract uncertainty can lead to a lot of the questions that both of these quarterbacks are facing as they head toward the 2020 season. And last but not least, folks, you'll find that Ross respects Tom Brady as much as I respect Drew Brees. And even though we may have differing opinions on exactly who is the GOAT, Ross and I hope that our discussion today will give you a little insight and maybe an example as to how a disagreement doesn't need to equal disrespect. So sit tight, folks.

Ross and I had a blast recording this, and I sincerely hope that you enjoy today's podcast. But before Ross and I start our GOAT discussion, I alluded earlier to some clarity that Tom Brady provided today on his playing status for 2020. Well, at around 9 a.m. this morning, social media started blowing up at the thought of Tom Brady posting something on Instagram. He did so. He posted a picture of himself and a very heartfelt and sincere message as a thank you to all New England fans.

Since at the time of this recording there was no known audio of it, I'll read the message to you in its entirety. And it states, I just wanted to say to all of our fans, thank you. After a few days of reflection, I'm so grateful and humbled by the unconditional support that you have shown me the past two decades. Running out of that tunnel every week is a feeling that's hard to explain.

I wish every season ended with a win, but that's not the nature of sports or life. Nobody plays to lose, but the reward for working hard is just that, the work. I've been blessed to find a career I love, teammates who go to battle with me, an organization that believes in me, and fans who have been behind us every step of the way. Every one of us that works And in this case, folks, Tom was indeed quoting Teddy Roosevelt. He continues by saying, That is what team is all about. In both life and football, failure is inevitable. You don't always win. You can, however, learn from that failure. Pick yourself up with great enthusiasm and place yourself in that arena again. And that's right where you'll find me,

because I know I still have more to prove. Now, although this message seems to say a lot figuratively, folks, it doesn't say a whole lot definitively. It's going to be scrutinized like you can't imagine. People will be dissecting every word. What does he mean by this? What did Tom say that for? To be honest with you, the only one who really knows for sure is Tom Brady. He's the one that crafted the statement and put it out. Out of my respect for Tom, I'm not going to try to read between the tea leaves here. I'm going to take him at his word, and that's what was put on Instagram. There was one thing, though, that Tom said, and that was his closing statement. And I do caution you that it wasn't a definitive declaration that he indeed will be back,

but to saying that that's where I'll be, quote-unquote, in that arena, and that he has more to prove, that tells me retirement's not on the table for Tom Brady, folks. He's coming back in 2020. He wants to erase that bitter taste that was left in his mouth after the loss to the Titans on Saturday. What the message doesn't state is whether or not his coming back will be in New England. And believe me, folks, I would like nothing more than to tell you this message tells me he's coming back. Book the tickets, get everything

ready. He's going to be back in New England. I simply can't do that. We don't have enough information out there yet. There is still a lot of logistical roadblocks to Brady coming back. The structuring of his contract, the type of commitment that the team is willing to make to him, and also a big part of this is Tom's own personal preference. Does he want to come back and make one more run in New England? Or after 20 years, is he ready to move on? These are questions that are going to be asked and analyzed ad nauseum over the next month until free agency opens, folks. And yes, we'll get into all of those here on Locked On Patriots over the coming days and weeks.

And look, folks, Tom Brady is not the only quarterback facing an uncertain future in 2020. Drew Brees actually has a very similarly structured contract to Tom, and not a lot of people are talking openly about his whereabouts. I wonder why that is. Well, you know what? Welcoming in Ross Jackson today from Locked On Saints, I'm going to ask him that question. And Ross and I will begin our GOAT edition of Crossover Wednesday in just a moment.

However, before I proceed with that, we here at Locked On are proud to say that this episode is sponsored by Blue Chew. Guys, now you can increase your performance and get that extra confidence. Listen up. BlueChew.com. That's blue like the color blue. BlueChew brings you the first chewable with the same FDA-approved active ingredients as Viagra and Cialis. You can take them any time, day or night, even on a full stomach.

And since they're chewable, they work up to twice as fast as a pill, so you can be ready whenever an opportunity arises. If you could benefit from more confidence where it counts, BlueChew is the fast and easy way to enhance your performance. Blue Chew is prescribed online by a licensed physician, so you don't have to go to the doctor's office or wait in line at the pharmacy. It ships right to your door in a discreet package. They're made in the USA, and since Blue Chew prepares and ships direct, they're cheaper than a pharmacy. And best of all, there's no more awkwardness.

Right now, we've got a special deal for our listeners. Visit BlueChew.com and get your first shipment free when you use our special promo code LOCKEDON. Just pay $5 shipping. Again, that's B-L-U-E-Chew.com, promo code LOCKEDON to try it for free. Blue Chew is the better, cheaper, faster choice, and we thank them for sponsoring the podcast.

All right, welcome in, fans of the greatest of all time. No, I'm not talking about Drew Brees or Tom Brady. I'm talking about myself, Ross Jackson, host of Locked on Saints, and Mike DeBate, host of Locked on Patriots. We are here with you today to discuss some pretty hot topics for us right now. Both of these teams, the New England Patriots and the New Orleans Saints, dealing with a little bit of questions around their starting Hall of Fame quarterbacks going into 2020 after disappointing early exits in the wildcard round in 2019. So we thought it would be a very fun idea to come together and have a discussion about both these teams' futures,

these quarterbacks' futures, the way that they're looked at across the league, and which one, well, not really which one is the greatest of all time, but why they both belong at the top of that conversation. Mike, been hoping to be able to jump on the mic with you for quite some time, man. Glad to be able to do it with this as the topic. I think this is going to be a lot of fun. How you doing this morning? I'm doing great, Ross. It is an absolute pleasure to be with you this morning. You put us up in that goat echelon. We got a lot to live up to here, but I think we can deliver.

I'm definitely, I'm leaning on you, my friend, when it comes. Absolutely, man. Hey, look, I think that when we come together to have a conversation, absolutely, man. Hey, look, when we come together to have a conversation like this, there's no better echelon to be in because those are the guys that we're talking about. We're talking about the greatest of all time today, one of which Tom Brady has made waves this morning. Care to elaborate a little bit on what's going on with Tom early, early? Absolutely. I'd be happy to. And for those of you that may have missed it this morning around 9 a.m., Tom Brady took to Instagram and essentially what he did was thank the New England Patriots fans for all of the support they provided to him in 2019. Tom does this on a regular basis,

so it's something that New England Patriots fans are very accustomed to. But the most important part of the message is how he ended it when he said, quote, he'd be back in the arena and that he would have, quote unquote, more to prove. Now that told me and pretty much anybody that read the message is that retirement, not in the cards for Tom Brady this year. He looks like he's ready to reload and come back in 2020. And honestly, Ross, I don't think that was ever a question. I saw something in Tom's eyes in his postgame press conference on Saturday that led me to believe that this wasn't it.

He wasn't about to let his career end on a pick six to Logan Ryan to end his season on wildcard weekend. It's obvious that he has unfinished business, and with the way he played this year, I think he still has enough left in the tank to do it. Some of the detractors will tell you otherwise, but I believe Brady definitely has what it takes to get the job done in 2020. Now, whether or not that's going to be in New England, that's still up for debate. As I said when I opened my show today, there's still a lot of logistics to be worked out.

But what this does is it provides clarity on Tom's playing status for 2020. But you know what it also does, Ross? It puts the Patriots on notice. It lets people know, from Tom's perspective that is, hey, I'm ready to come back. I'm ready to play in 2020. Now it's up to the New England Patriots. So in my opinion, this was a very nice, very heartfelt message. And I believe that Tom was 100% sincere in doing that.

However, it was also very strategic and very smart on Brady's part to put that on Instagram this morning. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And I love the message. I thought honestly that it was, I think you and I were talking about it beforehand that just on the base level, it's a nice message altogether, but the agenda, the, the sort of putting the team on notice, as you mentioned, I think is a wise move for him to let everybody know, Hey, there's no question here. I'm trying to come back over on the new Orleans Saint side. There's a little bit of conversation still going on as to whether or not teams expect, whether or not the team expects Drew Brees to come back. The fans definitely expect Drew Brees to come back because it's sort of that same type of attitude, right?

Tom Brady's sort of year and then the conversation would then be his career ending on that Logan Ryan pick six. Very unlikely to see something like that happen. This game for Drew Brees was not his best game against the Minnesota Vikings at home, throwing for only 208 yards, a touchdown, a pivotal interception, and having a pivotal sack fumble late in the game as well, and then didn't even get to see the field in overtime because the Saints defense gave up the Kyle Rudolph touchdown early on in overtime. And so just not really an opportunity for Drew Brees to go out there and be Drew Brees. And that's not the note that you really expect this guy in particular to to end on at this point.

And especially with everything that he's achieved throughout his career, much like Tom Brady, really would be surprised to see either of these guys go out on that type of a sour note. I would think that if the Saints didn't make the playoffs, it would be more likely Drew Brees wouldn't return than getting a taste of the playoffs and then almost having what they needed to get a win in that game, but not really being able to pull it all together. And so I look at this as an opportunity for both of these teams to either bring back their guys or for these guys to end up playing elsewhere. And it seems to me that the former is more likely. I believe so. And I think it's probably more likely in both cases.

Look, there's no question about it. Both organizations have a decision to make. With the New Orleans Saints, they do have a backup in Teddy Bridgewater, albeit not under contract and a free agent as well. But someone that came in and proved that he can play at a high level with the talent and the cast that they have surrounding him. So they do have an interesting decision. I do find it a little surprising that Drew Brees and Tom Brady have very similarly structured contracts, and one is being scrutinized, one not so much.

I think a lot of it is because most people feel that the Saints and Drew Brees will come together, maybe work out a little bit of a quote unquote hometown discount. I always hate that term, but a lot of people use it. I think that's more likely in this case scenario because of things that are coming out of the Brady camp or coming out of media saying that they're not willing to take that hometown discount this time, that he's essentially given this team a lot of leeway to be able to surround him with the talent he's going to need to compete. So I think that's why on the Patriots side, it's a little more acrimonious. On the Saints side, it seems to be a little more synergy between the two sides.

But it's going to be interesting to see what happens with these two aging but prolific quarterbacks. And in my opinion, I think they still proved, both still proved, that they have a lot left in the tank. When you have an injury the way Drew Brees had that caused him to miss significant time this year, and to come back and to lead that team to a playoff run and act like he hadn't missed a beat, that's impressive. That tells me he's ready to come back. And I think the New Orleans Saints know it as well. Yeah, absolutely. One other thing to know about Drew Brees' contract in particular is that even if he doesn't come back next year, the Saints owe him over $20 million. So $20 million is already on the table. You would imagine that if

they do come together for a nice team-friendly know, a deal that works for both these guys that Drew Brees is already going to get his 20 plus mil. And then sort of the difference in between that may be what it is that they settle on in terms of a brand new contract for the year, in terms of getting him up to 30 or getting him in the, into the high twenties for that season. So we'll see what it is that they do. It all kind of comes down to what the,

the saints sort of feel that they have in these guys. You mentioned Drew Brees not under contract right now going into 2020. Same thing for Teddy Bridgewater. Hell, same thing for Taysom Hill. them and a restricted free agent. He wants to come back, I'm sure of it. But even if he didn't, he wouldn't have a choice because they're going to give him a right of first refusal contract at the least and then probably match any offer that comes his way. But with that being the case, if you look at the performance from both of these guys in 2019, all signs should point to these teams wanting their guys back. Yeah, I would absolutely, I would definitely agree with that, especially on the Saints side. I mean, to me, there's no question about it when it comes to what this team has done and the fact that prove that his place is the best chance for him to succeed is in New England. I truly do believe that regardless of some of the things that you'll hear in the national media or some of the agenda driven stuff that you'll see. I do believe this is still his best opportunity. Look, bottom line, Tom Brady did have to deal with a number of factors this year.

And I'm not making excuses for the guy before people start to you know hamper me about that but look there was a lot of upheaval in his receiving core you start the season without a prolific wide receiver all of a sudden Antonio Brown gets plugged into that mix you get a little excited and then the week later he's pulled out from underneath you look there are a lot of circumstances involved that's a conversation for another day my friend and we'll table that, if you take just from a pure skill level, that's going to affect you. And Josh Gordon was not the prolific wide receiver that the Patriots had hoped for. He didn't pan out the way they had hoped. There was a ton of injuries on that core this year, starting with Julian Edelman. To me, I think it's remarkable that he was even out on the field this year in the second half of the season.

He was dealing with a shoulder injury, a knee injury that really was described as severe tendonitis that could have gotten a lot worse, suffered a chest and a rib injury earlier on in the season. He probably had his most injury-ridden malady-type season that we've seen Julian have in a long time, and he still went out there and played every single game. Philip Dorsett had his share of injuries as well. He suffered with a hamstring all year, did deal with a concussion earlier in the season as well. Mohamed Sanu, midseason acquisition, not the acquisition they hoped they were getting, but he dealt with a high ankle sprain. So there was a lot going on with the Patriots wide receiver core. Even Gunnar Ryszelski, who was a rookie, the punt return punt returner he went on injured reserve you take a look at that core tom brady had really one healthy wide receiver to throw to

all season long and that's an undrafted wide out in jacoby myers so feel about the weapons they had the talent the problem was execution and the problem was just not being able to get on the same page but if if you look at Tom's velocity, the way he was able to throw his arm strength, his footwork, it was all solid. And it looked very similar to what we saw the year before. He had accuracy issues. There was a couple of reasons for that as well. Tom did deal with an elbow injury that was described by Mike Giardi of NFL Network as tennis elbow. And anybody that knows that, it sounds like a country club injury,

but I assure you it's painful. Anybody that's ever had it, you can barely even move your arm if you're a normal mere mortal, let alone a quarterback, trying to make those throws. It's difficult. And also, it was reported just yesterday that he's been dealing with a foot injury as well. So that can lend itself into some of the accuracy issues,

but I do think Tom played well enough to be able to prove to the Patriots that he's still their best option under center for 2020. Yeah, absolutely. I really never looked at Tom Brady as the quote unquote problem for the New England Patriots this year. He didn't necessarily, as you mentioned, have the best weapons around him for sure, particularly this season. There have been seasons where he's had excellent weapons, just like there are seasons like this year that Drew Brees had the best weapon in the NFL. And Drew Brees, though he missed five weeks throughout this season with that UCL injury, Teddy Bridgewater came in and absolutely handled his five games going undefeated in his stead. Just goes to show you that when Drew Brees comes back, you know, one of the reasons why he looks so good late in the season is maybe because of the fact

that he missed basically six games this year year because you consider that he got injured during the second series of the second game of the season and then missed five full games so you're looking at basically you know five and seven eighths games in terms of what he missed absolutely yeah without question it really really does and you know i mean you take a look and judging from afar and someone that doesn't cover the team intimately but i take a look at the new orleans saints and look there's a lot of synergy i think patriots fans in new orleans saints kind of have that wink wink nod nod agreement between the two of them there's that acrimony with the nfl where it comes to bounty gate and spy gate and deflate gate and all these other gates that you know exist out

there and we kind of look at each other and go, yeah, the NFL hasn't really been too kind to our organizations. We both still find 28-3 hilarious, and I think both fan bases will always find that hilarious. But that being said, when I look at the scrutiny that these two guys have to go through, meaning Tom Brady and Drew Brees, obviously I'm used to the Brady scrutiny on my end. A lot of that is due to envy and some agenda within the media that wants to push the narrative that Tom is this hated villain where anybody that's ever covered him or been around him can tell you that is exactly the opposite of who the man is. I'm always intrigued from an objective standpoint in the scrutiny that drew breeze gets particularly when he has a game like he had to end the 2019 season if you can kind of walk my listeners and

you know your listeners as well through the process of why you think drew is so scrutinized when it comes to his play i've seen you know our mechanics and finger pointing and how he holds the ball and things like that this is scrutiny that tom gets a little bit but tom's scrutiny tends to be a little bit more broad-minded i think drew is intricately uh criticized and maybe you could help uh flush that out a little bit of why you think he's under the microscope as much as he is yeah absolutely and uh that's a great observation to the fact that these two do face the types of scrutiny but for different reasons and i do think that patriots fans will find this familiar because i do believe that this That's a great observation to the fact that these two do face the types of scrutiny, but for different reasons.

And I do think that Patriots fans will find this familiar because I do believe that this was true for Tom Brady early on in his career when he was sort of upsetting the NFL with his performance. Drew Brees just simply isn't the media's guy, if that makes sense. Drew Brees is not the young Patrick Mahomes who's lighting up scoreboards by being a reckless passer, no-look passes and all this other stuff, right? He's not doing all of that. He's not your Lamar Jackson who is absolutely electrifying and should be near the top of everyone's list as one of the best or at least most exciting players to watch in today's day and age of the NFL. He's not the Jimmy Garoppolo, and he's not Tom Brady, who's gone off and won six rings and has a near-perfect playoff record at 30 and 11, right?

So he's none of those guys, and he doesn't hold any of that type of favoritism within the NFL media. Now, I'm not saying that Tom Brady holds favoritism in the NFL media, because as you mentioned, he gets scrutinized a lot too. But Drew Brees is just not one of those other top guys. You know, Colin Cowherd the other day did a whole bracket of, uh, of NFL teams in the playoffs just before the wildcard round and based everything on quarterback matchups and what he calls the quote unquote quarterback face based on that metric. He ended up getting the saints to the Superbowl, but losing to Patrick Mahomes and the Kansas city chiefs,

something that I appreciated seeing. However, the judgment of Drew Brees never came down really to his ability as a passer on his own, as one of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game. It all came down to the weapons that were around him. So even in praising Drew Brees, it was really more so praising the guys around him. And Sean Payton's done a great job with that over the years, especially since they brought

in a guy like Jeff Ireland that comes in and drafts like gangbusters and hits multiple times every season, how they hit with a fourth round pick this year and CJ Gardner Johnson on the defense. But the fact of the matter is that when it comes to Jabrizy, he's just not the favorite guy. And so he ends up being criticized despite the fact that he jumps into 2019 and throughout December when games really matter in the regular season and throws for 15 touchdowns and no interceptions and over a 130 quarterback rating.

He had an electrifying end of the year. Unfortunately, it didn't hold up once they got to the playoffs and that extra pressure hit in terms of where, you know, the way that they played at home against the Minnesota Vikings. But I do believe that some of it just simply has to do with the fact that Drew's no one's guy right now. And that's one of the things that Saints fans feel. I think that the Saints organization feels as well because the New Orleans Saints being, you know, the quote unquote small market team. We've heard this conversation a lot in the NFL and in the NBA, the treatment of small

market teams. I do think that that fares a little bit into it as well, because New Orleans tends to be one of those cities and one of those regions in terms of the Gulf Coast region. That's always very high in its viewership and in fact is a bit of a uh i would say a higher market team in a higher market area but they're not viewed that way and that's one of the things that saints fans have always sort of leapt onto this idea that they are we are uh the underdogs within the nfl in any situation whether when it comes to the perception of the team and the perception of the media there's all of the trouble around the NFL that you mentioned as well.

Roger Goodell being the commissioner, all of that stuff is not in good sorts with the Saints fans and really with the team either. You're seeing Sean Payton potentially wearing a Roger Goodell clown face shirt under his button down last year after the NOLA no call. You saw Cam Jordan throw flags, not games, wearing those shirts. There's always been a little bit of an us versus the NFL in terms of the greater NFL sort of leadership mentality in New Orleans. And Drew Brees' criticism, Drew Brees' scrutiny, and sort of the microphone, I'm sorry, not microphone, microscope rather, that Drew Brees is placed under, I think is all latched on to that in terms of everyone

having to have and maintain this underdog mentality for New Orleans as sort of either in the NFL's eyes, this place where bad things happen, Bounty Gate, the NOLA no call, the lawsuit, the, you know, Mardi Gras, all of this other stuff. And, you know, the treatment of the NFL within last year's mardi gras celebration and now this uh this sort of playoff loss for the saints i think all of that sort of compounds and all of that contributes to the treatment scrutiny and sort of compromise of drew brees in the nfl absolutely and you know i think in a lot of ways i think new england patriots fans can relate to a lot of what you said. Simply because, first of all, we'll start with the Goodell and the whole thing about the league and us against the league.

We have seen, you mentioned the Barstool clown shirt. One of our assistant coaches, our defensive coordinator, our former defensive coordinator, wore one off the plane. So I think that should tell you an awful lot about how there is a synergy there. And of course, folks, I'm referring to Matt Patricia, now head coach of the Detroit Lions, but at the time defensive coordinator for your New England Patriots. And yeah, I think everybody up here in New England remembers that and they still laugh at it. There's still that mentality of the deflate gate nonsense and everything that went through there and how Patriots fans have worked to try to put that behind them. But there's still that animosity. I think that'll always be

there. So, yeah, there is there's that synergy when it comes to that between the two fan bases with regard to Drew. And you mentioned about him getting the praise about, you know, having prolific weapons around him. And even when he's praised, it's really a little bit more about the supporting cast and having to prove himself. Look, these are two quarterbacks that have similar beginnings, if you want to think about it. You know, Drew, obviously a very prolific passer for Purdue University. Always, there's a connection there. Former Patriots left tackle and very good Tom Brady friend, Matt Light. He's as much praise, just as much praise for Drew Brees as he does for Tom Brady.

He holds these guys in such high regard in terms of character, in terms of work ethic preparation. So to me, it's funny to think about the fact that they've both been protected essentially by the same guy at some point in their career. But you look at, you know, Brady coming in. OK, naturally, he took the reins in New England because of an injury to Drew Bledsoe and came in. And he's never relinquished those reins since, say, for just one season where he had no choice and he was injured with the ACL. Matt Castle stepped in in 2008. Drew Brees was the man under center with the then San Diego Chargers. And I cut my teeth in this business covering the Chargers organization.

And there are still people that look at that and say, I can't believe we let him get away. And that's a situation where, you know, you've had Phillip Rivers come in and play at a high level for a number of years. I don't think it's so much of a disrespect to Rivers, but it's just that I think a lot of people didn't realize what they had when they had it when Drew was there. And he had something to prove. And in a lot of ways, Tom experienced, I think, a lot of that in college where he was sitting behind Drew Henson

and he was trying to get his ability out there to show what he could do at the University of Michigan. These guys always play with that chip on their shoulder because I think they always carry that with them. And to me, I think the way they handle the scrutiny is by going out there and proving what they can do on the field. And to me, that's why I hold obviously Tom Brady, but I hold Drew Brees in such high regard. I have so much respect for that because it's something where you kind of look at it and say, yeah, our quarterback went through that. I can see it.

That's why I think these two fan bases identify with themselves so well. Yeah, absolutely. Now, you mentioned both these guys coming in and playing with chips on their shoulders, Mike. And I think that both of these guys absolutely did that. And they did more than play with chips on their shoulders. They played themselves into legend with chips on their shoulders. So let's go ahead and broach the greatest of all time conversation. For me, I've always looked at these two guys

both as the greatest of all time, because I think there's criteria and depending on what it is that you value. And I've talked about this on an episode of Locked on Saints before, depending on what it is that you value, there are very, very good cases for both of these quarterbacks. Let's not necessarily pinpoint which one is which or anything like that, unless we want to go that far. But let's just simply talk about and what I like to talk about is celebrating the fact that these two guys played together within this era, both of them right now having careers, Tom Brady from 2000 to 2019, Drew Brees from 2001 to 2019. We got to watch it a little bit this year,

the race at the end of the year for the all time passing touchdowns record for the all time meeting regular season, right? Cause it's only the regular season. That's that's counted in that. And that's where I think drew breeze maybe sets himself up for his argument. Whereas Tom Brady certainly sets himself up for his argument within the playoffs and Superbowl also incorporating the regular season as well.

But for both of these guys, I feel like there are great arguments for both of them as the greatest of all time. I think they are both the greatest of all time in terms of the two quarterbacks that have been able to do this. But how lucky are we to be able to sit back and watch these two guys not only play but almost race one another at this point in in the NFL exactly and you know the thing that you mentioned about racing one another is to me one of the big joys about it is seeing how the two players react with one another when Drew broke Peyton Manning's single season touchdown record Tom Brady was the first one to take to uh to social media and congratulate him and say that's going to be a tough record to beat. Yeah, but you know what?

Maybe it's worth trying with a wink. And I think that that's what drives these guys. But to get back to your original point, Ross, I absolutely agree. We are very, very fortunate. I closed out Locked on Patriots on Monday after a tough loss. There's no question about it. And you want to address your fan base. And I told them that with regard to Tom Brady,

having the privilege of having covered him for the past three seasons here in New England, I can honestly say that I believe that this guy deserves to be at the top or near the top of anyone's list when it comes to quarterback play. Nine Super Bowl appearances, six championships, three MVPs, four Super Bowl MVPs. It's unlikely that you'll ever see a quarterback with a resume of that type anytime in the future. Now, some of that is because of the teams he's played on, but to discount that and say that Brady was simply along for the ride or a passenger in a lot of ways I've seen him described. I think that's a ludicrous argument. I think to play into the fact that he's been playing in a great situation with a great coach, great organization is something that definitely has to be mentioned alongside his resume. But to discount it based on that,

I think it's just it's lazy and it's probably a little bit disingenuous in terms of ranking the two quarterbacks and in terms of ranking how these guys shake out one or the other, I'm not going to sugarcoat my emotions. I do believe that Tom Brady is the greatest to ever play this game simply because I do take into account the success he's had in the regular season combined with the success he's had in the postseason. But to say that Drew Brees is not in that conversation or cannot or that an argument can't be made that he should be there, I think is a gross disservice to Drew Brees. I think he absolutely deserves to be in the conversation. I think he's right there at

the top. I would definitely not call any type of argument that someone would say he is the greatest. I would not label that as a ridiculous argument or even an incorrect argument. I think you can make that argument based on the way these two players have played and the way they've conducted themselves throughout the years. So we are very fortunate to be able to cover two quarterbacks like this because these are talents that we're just not going to see any longer. And to say that we covered John Brady and Drew Brees is something that I know we'll be able to tell posterity for a number of years, and we can feel pretty damn good about it. It's been a hell of a ride.

And hopefully, I think both fan bases are hoping that both of these quarterbacks have at least one more run in them in the respective uniforms that we last saw them in. Yeah, absolutely. I think the two stories that my grandchildren are going to be most annoyed hearing about are the years that I got to spend covering New Orleans Saints and my story about Tracy Porter's pick six in the Super Bowl in 2009.

I think those are the two stories that they're going to be. All right, Grandpa, please shut up. No, I think that, you know, just to address this as well, and I think I'll make many of my listeners happy in terms of the way that I look at Drew Brees as the greatest. And I want to be very, very clear that being pro Drew Brees does not mean being anti Tom Brady and being pro Tom Brady does not mean being anti Brees. That's thank you. Thank you very much. Those two things do not equate to one another. I look at Drew Brees is the best to do it because you look at the fact that he holds the all-time records in completion percentage, the single season record in completion percentage, what, five of the top seven seasons that he's been able to pull that off, which has been

incredible. He's leading in passing yardage in terms of all-time passing yardage as well as all-time passing touchdowns as well. So I look at the records that he holds, the things that he's achieved. And in certain seasons, this season, not necessarily so much, but in other seasons where he's done that around with guys that didn't have big names,

Lance Moore, Marcus Colson, who was a seventh round pick. You talk about Devery Henderson coming out of LSU, Pierre Thomas, who was an undrafted free agent, much like Lance Moore. And so you look at those types of seasons that he was able to put together in 2012 without a head coach with Joe Vitt as his head coach, you know, pass for over 5,000 yards and 40 touchdowns had an incredible season. And I think that there were times where he was held back by his defense, just like there were times that Tom

Brady was held back by his defense as well. I acknowledge that for both of these quarterbacks, but the biggest point that I want to make is that even though you look at it as Tom Brady being the greatest to ever do it, I look at it as Drew Brees as being the greatest to ever do it, that we don't have to argue about it, that we can appreciate each other's perspective on this and respect each other, which I think this is just a little bit of a lesson for people that can't look at it that way. That again, and I'll repeat it, being pro-Breeze does not being anti-Brady and vice versa. Absolutely. And, you know, I think it's really true of any of these GOAT arguments. I see a lot of this. And what surprises me is colleagues of ours, you know, not colleagues here are locked on. I'm not talking about anybody

specific, but I mean, colleagues in the media, people in the media realm, that's a broad, you know, brush to paint. But I see a lot of that. I see a lot of the cattiness and the digs being thrown back and forth. Look, I mean, Brady's been compared to some of the greatest quarterbacks of all time in the New England media here. You talk about starting off with Peyton Manning. You talk about Joe Montana. People go back and forth between eras. These two guys never even sniffed one another in a game, but yet people will scrutinize and they'll go back and forth on that. You've seen Brady, obviously compared to Drew Brees. You've seen him compared to Aaron Rodgers. We've even seen now with a new wave

coming in with Patrick Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, these types of Deshaun Watson, these types of quarterbacks now, you know, going back and forth on how these guys will, you know, go back and forth with, with Tom Brady's legacy. I think there is always a healthy respect or there should be a healthy respect for all these guys that played the game. And I think that anybody that argues these points can have a discussion, just like we did come to the realization, believe that they do support their greatest of all time, but it doesn't necessarily mean that there has to be acrimony or

you have to start tearing other people down. I think it's a good lesson and I've enjoyed this conversation immensely as a result of that. The very same, Mike, man, I appreciate it so, so, so much. And I will say too, that I do draw a line in between the media's treatment of these guys, as well as the fans treatment of these guys. I think fans should be allowed to be passionate. I think that fans, you know what I mean? And so when we talk about these other people, what we're really referring to are other folks that cover these teams and sort of try to light the fire under the hot take machine.

I think that's the big thing that we're looking at. I think that fans are allowed to have their passion, and fans should be allowed to feel that's what you're there for, because you have to be passionate about the team that you love and the team that you support. And therefore, that shouldn't, in my opinion, be held against you unless you're like, you know, lighting couches on fire in the middle of the street, then maybe you should see some repercussions. But outside of that, it's just how you feel about your team. I don't believe that there is any reason to criticize that. I want to acknowledge as well, Tom Brady's excellent play in the playoffs, 30 and 11 in his 41 appearances, over 11,000 yards, 73 touchdowns.

It's only 35 interceptions. Drew Brees has only appeared in the playoffs 16 times. Maybe had he had a better defense from 2014, 15 and 16, that might be, you know, that number might be higher. But that's not really Drew Brees' fault. That's just a lack of execution from good old Rob Ryan out there. So who really expected more than that? But man, this has been absolutely so much fun. This has been so great. This will not be the last time that we come together, whether it just be because we feel like talking like we did today about something that means a lot to us, just like our listeners and fans, we encourage you to do so as well. But hopefully we'll be able to come together and talk about how these two guys were staring at, in terms of the media's presentation of them,

the ends of their careers, but come together to meet for a Super Bowl next year in Super Bowl 55. Absolutely. I could not agree more. I definitely agree this will not be the last time that we share the microphone. I've enjoyed this very much. I'm glad that you gave Tom a little bit of credit on that. I want to return the favor and give Drew Brees credit for a statistic that opened my eyes in a way that they haven't been open before. And people consistently praise Tom for being captain clutch, for being one of the best clutch quarterbacks of all time and always being there for a game winning drive. When I looked at the comparison between these two, it really raised my eyebrow when I saw exactly how close they are with game winning drives in the regular season. Tom Brady, 54,

Drew Brees, 53. That's phenomenal. That's something that I don't think Drew gets enough credit for. I think he should be getting credit for the fact that he is a clutch quarterback. Guys, fans of both teams, fans of the NFL, put these games that you saw on Saturday and Sunday just recently behind you. That is not indicative of what these guys are capable of doing going forward and definitely not indicative of the careers that they've had so far. Could be a blip on the radar screen. I think they're both back. I think they're both strong. My guess is I believe Drew Brees is going to be wearing the fleur-de-lis on his helmet.

And I think at the end of the day, folks, Tom Brady is still going to be wearing the fleur-de-lis on his helmet and i think at the end of the day folks tom brady's still going to be wearing that flying elvis in the silver and uh blue and red and white of the new england patriots so ross we still keep the dream alive and hey who knows maybe we will get that super bowl crossover one of these days but i'm already calling my saints patriots prediction for next year if nothing else this conversation has gotten me more hype than I've been looking ahead for 2020 than anything else. So I appreciate it, man. And thank you very much for the acknowledgement

to Drew Brees on that as well. Y'all, if you want to keep up with everything that Mike is doing over at Locked on Patriots as well over at Full Press, where he covers the Patriots, you can check him out at MikeDebate, D-A-B-A-T-E-F-P-C, on Twitter. And Patriots fans, if you want to shout out at me as well, I'm over on Twitter at RossJacksonASC.

I'm Ross Jackson, host of Locked on Patriots podcast. MikeDebate, host of Locked on Patriots. I'm sorry, I'm host of Locked on Saints podcast. See, you got me so hype. And MikeDebate, over, host of the Locked on Patriots podcast. Thank you all, everybody, for joining us. Mike, this was so much fun, man. Thank you so much for taking the time and really looking forward to next season.

Ross, thank you. I could not have had more fun today. Thank you and please, I encourage my listeners as well. I've told you before, folks, we do have a synergy between the two fan bases. Ross does an amazing job with the Locked On Saints podcast. Can't recommend it higher enough. Definitely download, subscribe, add it to

your rotation. You will not be sorry you did so. Thank you, my man. Really, really, really appreciate it. Anytime, my friend. And as for me, I will be back tomorrow to open up the Locked On Patriots mailbag for a special edition of Takeaway Thursday here on Locked On Patriots. As always, please be sure to join me each and every day on the Locked On Patriots podcast. Subscribe

and download via your preferred podcast provider. Once again, I'm Mike DeBate. I thank Ross Jackson for his appearance and his insight today, but most of all, I thank you so much for listening and for staying locked in to Locked On Patriots. Have a great day, everyone.