Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Dante Scarnecchia Evaluates New England Patriots OT Will Campbell

Starting point is 00:00:00 Dante Scarnacchia evaluates Will Campbell. That's where we start on this episode of Locked On Patriots. You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. What's up, Patriots fans? I am your host, Nick Cattles, born and raised in New England, your New England Patriots expert, host of the Everything Pats podcast, co-host of the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick Catt Drake May also a Pats rookie that has a chance to replace a recently signed free agent. But first, the offensive line wise man Dante Scarnacchia has spoken. We appreciate you joining the show, making us your first listen and for being an everydayer, the Lockdown Patriots podcast is a proud partner of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day.

Starting point is 00:01:06 And this episode is brought to you by the Amazon Fire TV Stick 4K. Turn any TV into your Xbox, no console is needed. That's amazon.com slash fire TV locked on to learn more. Dante Scarnecchia, his reputation is spotless. He is known as one of the best offensive line coaches at any level over the past number of decades. And lucky for us, he was here in New England and we saw the genius at work. Well, that genius sat down with Karen Guregian of Mass Live. And I've got three takeaways for you.

Starting point is 00:01:44 of Mass Live, and I've got three takeaways for you. Let's begin with Dante Scarnecchia talking about Will Campbell's tape. Quote, you see the qualities. Look, no one has questioned his athleticism in his skillset. No one has because there's nothing to question. He can really move. He's athletic for the size he has.

Starting point is 00:02:01 He can run fast, he can bend really well, he's got great change of direction skills, everybody just has a hard time with his arm length." Karen Gorigian then writes, Skarnakia explained that winning against powerful and uber athletic pass rushers depends on who gets to the quote unquote junction point first. Here's Scar, quote, between when you get there and when that guy gets there, if you beat him to that junction point, you have a real good chance to succeed.

Starting point is 00:02:29 The junction point is the engagement. So therein lies the athletic part of it, the explosion out of your stance, getting to the junction point first where you engage. To me, the most important thing once you get there, you have to be in the best possible position to win." Arm length is just piece of the puzzle is what Skarnakia is telling us. Yes, you pay attention to arm length. Arm length is important, but it's important to a point.

Starting point is 00:02:58 You don't want to over embellish the importance. You don't want to suffer from hyperbole talking about arm length. It's a piece of the puzzle, but also piece of that puzzle is a player's athleticism, their ability to move, the movement skills, the quick change of direction as Scarnechia brings up in this interview, the athleticism. As we've talked about, Will Campbell is one of the most athletic tackles that we have seen according to the relative athletic score since 1987. His athleticism is special.

Starting point is 00:03:32 And so when you look at offensive lineman and you want to talk about arm length, you can have that conversation. And it's a fair point to make. But also don't overlook the athleticism. Don't overlook the movement skills because the athleticism, don't overlook the movement skills, because the athleticism, if it is elite enough, if the movement is elite enough, and if the technique is elite enough, guess what? That player, that tackle, could overcome the length question, and that's what Scar is telling us.'s a part of the puzzle but it is

Starting point is 00:04:05 not the entire puzzle scar did highlight however an issue that could be caused by the short arm length and the short length period end of sentence here's what scar said to me that means your weight has to be slightly inside your midline. The pot of gold is always inside you and you better be at your strongest for those rushes because that's the shortest path to the quarterback. You always set that rusher inside out. So what Skarnecki is saying is you want to make sure that you send the pass rusher to the outside because if you send the pass rusher to the outside, then it's going to take him longer to get to the quarterback.

Starting point is 00:04:51 If you get beat inside, then you have an issue. You have to be at your strongest for the rushes inside because that's the shortest path to the quarterback point a to point B point a to point B, the shortest path to the quarterback is the inside track. If you have to loop around and go outside, now you're going to take longer getting to the cue. That's the entire point. And that has been an issue at times. When you watch Will Campbell, when you watch the film, when you read what people have to

Starting point is 00:05:22 say about him, the top concern is the speed to the inside, getting beat to the inside. That's the biggest concern. And that's why it's going to be important to make sure that your left guard can pass protect that your left guard can help Will Campbell just in case Will Campbell is having issues. If your left guard is able to deal with stuff, then Josh McDaniels can help Will Campbell in certain matchups. But Scarnecchio wants to underline that point. If you get beat to the inside, that's going to be the

Starting point is 00:05:55 biggest problem. And that's what we have to look for because especially with a quarterback like Drake May, Drake May can get away from the pressure pressure if somebody is rushing even on his blind side and they're wrapping around to the outside. He has enough athleticism to get away from that situation. He has hopefully the pocket awareness to be able to step into that pocket step up in a way from that outside pass rush. But if somebody is coming downhill inside of Will Campbell and splitting the tackle and the guard on the blind side, that's a much bigger problem. There's one more comment that I wanted to mention here from Skarnakia in this interview

Starting point is 00:06:36 with Karen Guregian, and I thought it was a fascinating part of Skarnakia's conversation here with Karen, and here's what Karen wrote. Scarneckia then turned the tables. He talked about a few noted pass rushers. Scarneckia made his point with three names Dwight Freeney, Aaron Donald, Micah Parsons. Quote Dwight Freeney 32 inches he's great first ballot Hall of Famer. Aaron Donald he'll be a first ballot Hall of Famer. Aaron Donald, he'll be a first ballot Hall of Famer. He's 33 inches. Micah Parsons, he's 6'1", 255, 260. He's got 54 sacks in four years. How long are his arms? 31 and a half inches. They come in all different sizes. They're not all Jason Taylors who had 34,

Starting point is 00:07:21 35 inch arms. I found this fascinating because Skarnekia, he flips it. He flips the conversation because pass rushers, a lot of coaches will tell you, the longer the arms, the better for pass rushers with the same idea. They can win that engagement battle. They can get to the tackle quicker before the tackle can get to them. And Skarnekia's point is a great one. You could look at some of the best pass rushers in football. Past, present, and there are guys like Freeny and Donald

Starting point is 00:07:55 and Parsons whose arms are 33 inches or shorter. And that did not get in the way because those guys had special traits. They had special technique and they were able to overcome the length questions. So just like a tackle can overcome the length question on the offensive side of the football, a pass rushing edge can also get past the arm length questions and especially like somebody like Aaron Donald. Aaron Donald, we all know he's not the biggest guy. He doesn't

Starting point is 00:08:26 have great length. He's not 6364. He's just not that kind of guy. He wasn't built that way. Now, he's ridiculously muscular dude looks like the Incredible Hulk when he was playing football. But his size would have been a problem. Like if you're writing it down, you go, oh, he's not as big as the other guys that we want on the interior defensive line. The arms aren't as long as we would like. Did that matter? No, because Donald was the outlier. He was special. His athleticism, his strength, his technique, his football intelligence, all of those things wrapped up into one. and in all of those special traits that he had overcame the less than special size that he had for his position. Same idea with the offensive tackle. The junction point.

Starting point is 00:09:17 You got to get to the junction point and control it. Outliers exist. Parting thoughts from Scar, just by watching some clips, Skarnakia can tell Campbell has been taught well, understands the principles needed to succeed. That's half the battle. Quote, what I've noticed about Campbell is that he gets out there and his hands are always in front of his body. Your hands and your arms are your shield and your swords, both of them. Look, this kid has already gone against guys that are NFL caliber players.

Starting point is 00:09:46 I think that's a huge advantage to him. And to me, that lessens the risk factor, unquote. Dante Scarnacchia says the arms are not gonna be as much of an issue, gave you a bunch of reasons why, watched film of Will Campbell, and tells us with the competition that he faced, even less of a risk than you might think because he was in the SEC and he played against some of the best guys.

Starting point is 00:10:12 And I know some people have said this before, but this is Dante Scarnecchia. And if Dante Scarnecchia tells me that Will Campbell has a legitimate chance to be a tackle on the left side and that he's not too bothered by his film. I don't know. I'm going to listen to Dante Scarnacchia. Austin Hooper discusses the Josh McDaniels offense and his second year quarterback. That's coming up next as we continue with today's episode of Locked On Patriots, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day.

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Starting point is 00:11:44 Download Game Time today. Last minute tickets lowest price guaranteed. When you think about this off season and you start with Josh McDaniels as the offensive coordinator and then you think about adding Stefan Diggs, adding some of the offensive linemen that you have added via free agency. And then also the draft that you just had adding Will Campbell and Henderson and Williams and Wilson. And then you think about second year Drake May.

Starting point is 00:12:14 That should leave you feeling pretty optimistic about the room for growth that this offense has in 2025. Now we could joke around and say, there's really no other way to go but up after the last couple of years. And you would be right, you would be right. But I think we have tangible reasons to feel more optimistic. I just gave you the names.

Starting point is 00:12:36 Josh McDaniels is one of the best OCs in football. We saw the flashes from Drake May. He's gotta be more consistent, less turnover worthy plays, but we saw the flashes of that young man and what he could bring to the quarterback position. We've seen Stefan Diggs with our own eyes, and yet he's not the same guy he used to be three, four years ago, but he's still darn good. Offensive line can't help but be better compared to last year, and everybody feels great about the draft, the execution of the draft, the process of the draft, and on paper what that draft looks like.

Starting point is 00:13:09 So there's optimism for the offensive growth and there should be. And Austin Hooper met up with the media and Mark Daniels wrote this comment from Hooper talking about McDaniels, quote, still very smart, same system unquote. Interesting because the Patriots, if you think about the Josh McDaniel's offense, and we have talked a lot about the changes that we will see and the fact that McDaniel's has evolved, I've covered that a lot before I got here to locked on at the everything paths podcast on the YouTube channel that I run, spent a lot of time about Josh McDaniel's learning during his year away from football, visiting different programs,

Starting point is 00:13:53 and he has talked about it. But still, at the end of the day, a Josh McDaniel's offense is going to be very smart. And I think when you look at how the Patriots have run this offseason, it matches perfectly with that thought because the Patriots have been very focused on not only adding talent, which of course you have to, of course you have to add talent, but the Patriots have not only been focused on adding talent, they've been focused on adding IQ, football IQ. When you read about the guys that they have signed, when you read about the guys that they have drafted, there's a common thread. Football IQ. There's athleticism, there's talent, but there's also football IQ.

Starting point is 00:14:39 Will Campbell, the stories we read heading into the draft about how when he sat down for these pre-draft meetings and interviews, coaches walked away and said, that guy's like a coach. That guy already comes across as a coach. He's that smart. And the Patriots have focused on high IQ players. And so you hope that these high football IQ players are able to absorb McDaniel's offense. But we also have to remember McDaniel's has coached a bunch of different players and he has coached a bunch of guys that I'm sure are at different levels of football IQ. And Kendrick Bourne the last couple of years has had one heck of a time being consistent and a lot of the time looking like he's lost.

Starting point is 00:15:27 You go back to 2021, which was Kendrick Bourne's best season in the NFL, who was his OC, it was McDaniels. McDaniels was able to somehow, someway get the message across to Bourne. Bourne absorbed it and produced his best season of his career. So we've seen McDaniels be able to adapt that entire season of 2021 with a rookie quarterback and all of those new pieces. Here's Andrew Callahan with a Hooper comment, transcription, Callahan writes, Hooper says McDaniels is incorporating

Starting point is 00:16:09 new elements into the offense that suit Drake May. Ooh, tell me more. Mark Daniels with some Hooper comments. Hooper says he has a quote unquote willingness to hear what May, aka the young gun, likes and has to say. So what we're seeing here, and it is a key for 2025 to have a successful season, a successful offense, what we are seeing here is we are seeing more ownership being given to May, and that's key. Now we're not just talking about ownership of the offense because there's absolutely a feel of that.

Starting point is 00:16:47 There's absolutely the idea of, you know, giving Drake May more responsibility when he's up there at the line of scrimmage, having him with more say during the work week in what to do with the install. All of that's true. And Drake may is going to have more ownership of this offense in 2025, but it's also suiting this offense suiting this offense to Drake may strengths. Now, what does that mean? You go back to last off season before the draft and we talked about Drake may loves throwing the football down the seams loves throwing the football in the middle of the field. I think you'll see more of that from this Josh McDaniels offense than you saw last year with Alex van Pelt's offense. I think

Starting point is 00:17:34 you'll see more of that. Find his comfort zone. Designed runs, another example. That was an entire narrative last year throughout the season and it should have been this idea that Drake may was not being given the opportunity to use his athleticism within the context of the offense and to allow him to have success with some design runs, third and short, fourth and short red zone area inside the five. Why not use him more?

Starting point is 00:18:05 It was weird. Don't use them a ton. Don't go crazy and have them run the football 15 times a game, but you could certainly use them more. One last note from Austin Hooper to the media. This is from Karen Garegian. Hooper said part of the reason he resigned with the team was to continue to play with May.

Starting point is 00:18:24 Having belief in your quarterback matters. If the players on the field, if those guys, this offense, skill positions, offensive lineman, if they believe in Drake May, they are going to play harder for Drake May. Now that might sound ridiculous, but it's true. I know they get paid a lot of money and they're professionals. They should play hard for everybody, but they're going to be willing to go that extra, that little bit of extra because they believe May will do the extra for them. They believe in their quarterback and that matters. We saw how it ended with Mack Jones. Guys on that offense just did not believe in Mack Jones. They didn't believe in his leadership, they didn't believe in his skill on the field.

Starting point is 00:19:08 And that started to erode. And the handle that Jones had on that offense back in 2021 was just gone, it vanished. Austin Hooper saying one of the major reasons why I came back to New England is because I wanted to play with that quarterback Guys will play harder for him He has the ability may does to elevate guys around him which not every quarterback can do that Not every single one can do it and we're talking about confidence this air of confidence seeping through this offense

Starting point is 00:19:42 Because if you believe in your quarterback you're gonna be more confident in your offense because you believe that your quarterback could do things that other quarterbacks can't do and that brings confidence and when you play with confidence you play better it also doesn't hurt recruiting if if these veterans say he's the guy that I want to play alongside he's a quarterback that I want I'm gonna. He's a quarterback that I want. I'm going to stand by him. Again, that matters. It means something.

Starting point is 00:20:09 All right, the Patriots pick that could start a lot sooner than some may believe. That's coming up next as we continue with today's episode of Locked On Patriots, part of the Locked On podcast network, your team every day. Did you know your Fire TV is also an Xbox? Turn any TV into your gaming and entertainment hub with Fire TV Stick 4K devices. No console required.

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Starting point is 00:21:12 Head to amazon.com slash fire tv locked on to get started xbox game pass ultimate subscription and compatible controller is required Available on select devices including fire TV Stick 4K 2nd Gen, Fire TV Stick 4K Max 1st and 2nd Gen, and Fire TV Cube 3rd Gen. Let's talk Jared Wilson. Jared Wilson has an opportunity to make a bigger impact than some may think. Now I know we see the fact that Wilson played center at Georgia and the Patriots just went out and signed Garrett Bradbury

Starting point is 00:21:50 and they released David Andrews to go out and sign Garrett Bradbury. And there's no doubt that Bradbury is an upgrade over Andrews. That might say more about Andrews than it says about Bradbury. We'll talk about that in a minute. But there's no doubt he's an upgrade.

Starting point is 00:22:07 He's an upgrade. Bradbury versus David Andrews, Bradbury wins that case. There's really not much of a debate, frankly, and especially the fact that David Andrews was coming off of the significant injury and surgery. But the truth is Bradbury had a down year last year. And if you look at pro football focus in their grades, his overall grade was 33rd in the league, ranked 33rd in the league at center

Starting point is 00:22:36 out of 64 centers in football last year. What tanked him was not his run block rate. His run block rate was good. He was actually the 14th best center What tanked him was not his run block rate. His run block rate was good. He was actually the 14th best center when it came to run blocking in 2024. His grade was 70.7. The issue for Bradbury was that his past block rate

Starting point is 00:22:56 ranked him 55th out of 64 centers. His past block rate was 48.2, just a shade over 48. His past block rate was 48.2, just a shade over 48. So we have to acknowledge that Bradbury had a down year with Minnesota last year. In past protection, he was one of the worst centers in football, one of the worst. And it's not like he signed a $20 million guaranteed deal. Don't get it twisted.

Starting point is 00:23:27 He's going to make 3.8 million guaranteed. Now for me and for you, 3.8 million guaranteed sounds pretty nice, right? A little bit of scaddle in the bank. 3.8 million guaranteed I would take, you would take, but 3.8 million guaranteed in NFL money certainly does not guarantee an offensive lineman a starting job. It just doesn't. So we have to remember Bradbury coming off a down year in past protection, he's going to make less than 4 million guaranteed. And then we also have to remember that the man that is leading the program, Mike Vrabel, is preaching competition.

Starting point is 00:24:05 He's preaching competition across the board. Now, of course, that has its limits because everybody knows Drake May is not in a competition with Josh Dobbs, but you get the point. The overall general vibe of this camp is going to be compete, competition, win the job, win the job. And when you look at Jared Wilson, Jared Wilson has the tools to supplant Garrett Bradbury. Andrew Callahan wrote this about Wilson. Wilson was named to the All-SEC second team last year. He allowed zero sacks and just six pressures over 511 pass blocking snaps last year. He allowed zero sacks and just six pressures over 511 pass blocking snaps last year. So think about that. The weakness of Bradbury, who was ranked 55th out of 64 centers last year, was pass

Starting point is 00:24:54 block grade. This is pass blocking just not good enough. Whereas Wilson didn't allow a single sack in the SEC and allowed only six pressures and over 500 pass blocking snaps. Wilson also posted an above average run blocking grade. And Callahan writes, before taking over the starting job, he backed up future NFL offensive lineman and sharpened his skills and practice versus several future first round draft picks on Georgia's defensive line. Just look at this past season, Mike L Williams, Jalen Walker. We talk about Will Campbell's athleticism and how that can help him at the next level. Wilson is also a really, really good athlete. Jared Wilson ran a 4-8-4 40 yard dash,

Starting point is 00:25:49 led all centers at the combine. Kent Lee Platt, who is the founder of the relative athletic score that I love to use. Well, he wrote about Wilson. Wilson scored a 9.84 RAS out of a possible 10. You wanna know how good that was or is? That ranks Wilson number 12 out of 673 centers. Out of 673 centers that have an RAS.

Starting point is 00:26:22 From 1987 to 2025. Jared Wilson is the 12th most athletic center since 1987. The 12th most athletic center prospect since 87. That is elite athleticism. He has the tools. He was great against the pass rush last year at Georgia, above average in the run. And then you look at his athleticism, his ability to move. And here's a little note, Wilson told the media after he was drafted last Friday night that he actually has been training

Starting point is 00:27:00 with Will Campbell. So there's a little bit of chemistry there, a little bit of cohesion between Wilson and Campbell. That can't hurt. We all know that continuity on the offensive line is critical. It's one of the major reasons why, aside from just talent level, that the Patriots have struggled the past couple of years. I mean, last year you were dealing with so many injuries, then a core four quits the team, he leaves. And so you're just constantly shuffling upfront. And when you're constantly shuffling upfront, it makes it very difficult for any team and their offensive line to not just survive,

Starting point is 00:27:37 but get towards thriving throughout the football season. So that cohesion, training with Campbell, it's an interesting aside from Jared Wilson, which could help him take the starting job from Bradbury. Now I think he'll get the opportunity. I think Mike Vrabel, along with Doug Marrone and Hote tailing and Kugler, the offensive line coaches, they will, they will give Wilson a legitimate opportunity to replace Bradbury, to supplant him as this team's starting center. But I still think Bradbury ends up starting game one of 2025.

Starting point is 00:28:19 Because as great as the traits are, and as exciting and young as Wilson is, he's young, but he's also fresh because he had one year as a starter at the center position while at Georgia. He started one year at Georgia. So I don't think they will throw him out there unless he absolutely knocks the pants off of dudes during camp, which is possible. I leave it open five ten percent. It's possible. He'll get the opportunity But I think Bradbury will end up starting at center But I also would not Write off the idea of Jared Wilson starting at left guard depending on how Coltrane city So laden Robinson and West Schweitzer play

Starting point is 00:29:03 Having three offensive line coaches will certainly help Wilson acclimate to the NFL level. And I'm excited about the pick. I just don't think he ends up starting right away. That's what my gut tells me. All right. That wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriots on tomorrow's show, the massive roster turnover. We've seen this off season. Let me know your thoughts on today's topics.

Starting point is 00:29:25 Reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C radio and don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube channel and thank you for making Lockdown Patriots your first listen today. For your second listen, check out Lockdown NFL scouting. The NFL draft of course it's over but the roster moves, the news never stops. Host Kyle Krabs and Joe Marino will make you the most informed NFL fan this off season. Find Lockdown NFL scouting on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Have a great day and we will see you tomorrow.

Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Dante Scarnecchia Evaluates New England Patriots OT Will Campbell

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