Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Day Two Patriots Minicamp Talk with Douggie: Gilmore, Cam and More — 6/15/2021

Episode Date: June 15, 2021

The New England Patriots were back in action on the practice fields adjacent to Gillette Stadium in Foxboro, Massachusetts. The Pats have completed two thirds of a three-day mandatory minicamp and there are plenty of storyline to accompany the on-field practices. Joining host Mike D’Abate is Douggie Mac (a.k.a Douggie Football), of Patriots Discord and the Untitled Patriots Podcast. The duo discuss Stephon Gilmore's holdout, Cam Newton’s play at quarterback and the importance of offseason workouts.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors!Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKED15,” and you’ll get 15% off your next order.BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus.Rock AutoAmazing selection. Reliably low prices. All the parts your car will ever need. Visit RockAuto.com and tell them Locked On sent you. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. All of you Foxborough faithful. You are now locked into the Lockdown Patriots podcast. It is Tuesday, June 15th, 2021, day two of mandatory minicamp for your New England Patriots. And we have the very latest for you here on your daily home for news notes and analysis infused with the occasional opinion on your six-time Super Bowl champions, the New England Patriots. And of course, after listening to today's Locked On Patriots podcast,

please be sure to check out my colleagues, NFL analyst Brian Peacock and former NFL scout Matt Williamson, as they host Locked On's Peacock and Williamson every Monday through Friday. Brian and Matt give you the national perspective all around the NFL, covering all the latest news and insight on every game, every team, and every move around the NFL. Get your picks, previews, and much more every weekday with the Peacock and Williamson Podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

And greetings and Tuesday salutations to all of you Patriots fans out there. And thank you for joining me on this day two mandatory minicamp episode of the pod. My name is Mike DeBate and I cover your New England Patriots for Patriot Maven of Sports Illustrated. I am also your host of the Locked On Patriots podcast, which of course is a proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. And folks, because it's your team every day, that means your questions, of course, is a proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. And, folks, because it's your team every day, that means your questions, your comments, your feedback

are always welcomed and very much encouraged. So share that feedback. Send it to the Internet by reaching out to me and following me on Twitter at M-D-A-B-A-T-E-N-F-L. And while you're out there doing some Tuesday traveling through the Twitterverse, please be sure to follow the Locked On Patriots account as well at L-O underscore Patriots. Patriots fans, it is Tuesday and it's one down and two to go. As in two more days left in Patriots mandatory minicamp,

kicking off this week in Foxborough. Yesterday, the major story of the day is cornerback Stephon Gilmore choosing not to attend this year's mandatory minicamp, Gilmore holding out in hopes of obtaining a new contract. And while it technically is yesterday's news, we have just begun to scratch the surface on the potential negotiations between Gilmore and the New England Patriots front office. One thing that is still uncertain is whether or not Gilmore's absence is considered unexcused. And this morning, when Bill Belichick spoke to the media, NFL Network's Mike Giardi was the first to ask the question, is Stephon Gilmore's absence from minicamp excused?

Bill Belichick, in true Belichickian form, kind of danced around the subject a little bit. He responded to Giardi's question by saying, I don't expect him to be here, meaning training camp, and that we'll be focusing on the guys that are here. Should be noted, Belichick did not answer one way or another whether or not Gilmore's absence was considered excused. Keep in mind that if his absence is considered unexcused, he may be subject to a little more than $93,000 in fines. So, once again, we continue to keep a sharp eye on the Stephon Gilmore situation, and

I'll continue to bring you the very latest right here on Locked On Patriots. Another piece of noteworthy news that came out of Belichick's morning press conference was Belichick offering a candid opinion on quarterback Cam Newton. After all, Newton is back in action after injuring his hand on June 4th during practice, and despite being a full participant, was seen struggling a little bit with accuracy yesterday. Still unclear how much of that is attributed to Newton's hand injury, but apparently back on the field today on Tuesday, and according to the media contingent in attendance, apparently still struggling a little bit with that accuracy. But before some of you start to write Newton's

epitaph here in New England, please keep in mind that he seems to have the support of not only his teammates, but also his coaches, including Bill Belichick. Belichick was pretty candid this morning when he talked about Newton saying that, Cam's way ahead of where he was last year. There's no question about that. He's in a good spot not to be in catch-up mode. Belichick then went on to praise Newton's work ethic, his attitude, and seems to be pretty satisfied with what Newton's bringing to the table so far.

As for the remainder of that quarterback room, Mac Jones continues to impress the media contingent, and Jarrett Stidham has had some pretty good moments as well. Folks, healthy competition is always a good thing, and any good competitor will welcome that type of competition. You heard Jarrett Stidham say yesterday during his remarks to the media how he was pumped up when the team selected Mac Jones. Almost made him elevate his game a little bit. Mac Jones has been very open in his comments to the media how he was pumped up when the team selected Mac Jones, almost made him elevate his game a little bit.

Mac Jones has been very open in his comments to the media about learning from his teammates, competing with his teammates. Even Cam Newton, addressing the media after practice on Tuesday, stated that having guys like Stidham and Hoyer and Mac in camp definitely makes him a better player. Before anyone starts to read too much into the quarterback statistics, or the 10-20 second video bite of a pass sailing over a receiver's head or maybe wobbling a little toward its target, that it's difficult to near impossible to use any player's minicamp performance, let alone a quarterback, as a measuring stick for his chances of making the team or performing in the upcoming season. That's a training camp thing, and even at that, we're not going to know what these guys

are truly capable of until the pads come on. Until then, it's nice to see the new faces in town, it's great to see the rookies rounding into form, but most importantly, it's just a great opportunity for the players and the coaches to get to learn more about one another, get to know one another, and become comfortable enough with each other so that way when this team does reconvene in late July, they're ready to put the pads on, get to work, and hopefully contend for a playoff spot in 2021. Who knows, folks? Maybe even more. And these sentiments are not only echoed by my guest today, but they're going to be amplified,

because every time he joins me here on the pod, he always kicks things up a notch. Dougie Football, a.k.a. Dougie Foxborough, a good friend of the pod here on Locked On Patriots, is my guest today in the hot seat, and we'll be talking about Stephon Gilmore's holdout. We'll also be talking about Cam Newton's return from injury and his progress, and what it means for a potential quarterback battle in 2021. Last but certainly not least, Doug and I will offer our thoughts on the rookie minicamp, OTA, and mandatory minicamp portion of the offseason workout program, how much stock should really be placed into it,

and of course the storylines we can expect to see extending into the official opening of training camp next month. Folks, an action-packed agenda on today's pod, Doug is fired up, I'm fired up, and without much further ado, Dougie Football, the gatekeeper of the Patriots Discord community, and also one half of the hosting tandem of the Untitled Patriots Podcast alongside the great Lee Schechter, will join me here on the pod hot seat when this Tuesday episode of the Locked On Patriots Podcast continues. Locked On listeners, when it comes to repairing or maintaining your vehicle, why would you spend 30%, 50%, even 100% more for the exact same auto parts at a chain store or a new car dealership? It's still possible to take pride in your ride and even save a little in the process.

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How Did You Hear About Us box so they know we sent you. Amazing selection, reliably low prices, all the parts your car will ever need. rockauto.com Patriots fans, the air is always lighter up here in New England when I'm joined by my guests today because his wit and wisdom when it comes to your favorite team in Foxborough is felt in all circles of Patriots fandom.

That's why I'm always happy to welcome him here to the pod. He is the regal regulator, the gatekeeper of the Patriots discord community, and of course, one half of the hosting tandem of the Untitled Patriots podcast, which he hosts alongside the great Lee Schechter. I say without hesitation, this listen deserves the term must listen for Patriots fans. So please be sure to check that out, folks. The man, Dougie Football, aka Dougie.a. Dougie Foxborough, joins me today on the pod. Welcome back to

Locked On Patriots, my friend. Thanks for having me again, Mike. I'm starting to lose count of how many times I've been on. Did you say the entitled Patriots podcast by mistake the first time instead of untitled? Because entitled, it is a

fan-powered podcast, and entitled is a fan powered podcast and entitled is a good way to describe the Patriots fan base so I'm not I think you might have a pretty good idea there um for a new podcast name you know they say that they always say that behind every Freudian slip there's a little element of truth and who knows maybe that is the case but uh no my intention my intention good intention was always to call it the Untitled Patriots Podcast, because right now, you and we are absolutely crushing it, having some amazing guests, great insight, again, folks, with the exception of Lockdown Patriots, this is a must-listen, no, I'm only kidding, folks, it's right up at the top of the list, and

it should be at the top of yours as well. Always at the top of my subscribe and download list. And but let's dive right into it. Since the last time you adorned the airwaves here on Lockdown Patriots, there's been some news out of Foxborough. Yeah, I think a lot of it stems around mandatory minicamp opening up obviously yesterday and of course the big news of Monday in that cornerback Stefan Gilmore is indeed missing the entirety or looks to be missing the entirety of mandatory minicamp this year over a contract dispute now yesterday here on the pod Murph joined me Doug and we talked a lot about Stefan's decision to hold out that it really shouldn't be too surprising for Patriots Nation, maybe a little bit concerning, maybe a little bit worrisome,

but definitely not surprising considering the contract details that, you know, Stefan is set to earn this year, what he's looking to earn, and then, of course, what that means for the New England Patriots moving forward. So a lot of moving parts here a lot to digest when you look at this situation whether it be from Gilmore's standpoint whether it be from the Patriots standpoint what's your take on all of this and is there a happy medium to be reached here between the New England Patriots and Stephon Gilmore well you gave me a good plug at the open there. Can we talk about you for a second first? You didn't even give me a chance to say congratulations. Congratulations, man.

Thank you. I really, really do appreciate that. And that's very sweet of you. Very nice of you to say. I feel like I'm always talking about myself here on Locked on Patriots. So I really wanted to give my guests a chance to shine. But you're a good man, and that means an awful lot to me. It's been a great experience so far.

I talk about myself a lot, too. So, you know, you might as well honor your guest by emulating me and doing the same. Well, thank you. I will do just that. It's been a great experience so far. Being able to write under the Sports Illustrated name, under the Maven name, is definitely an honor. It was my honor for the last three and a half years to work for a great company like Full Press Coverage and getting a chance to work alongside great writers and great journalists like Ian Glendon

really gave me such an amazing foundation with which I can bring my level of wisdom and counsel to Patriots fandom. And everybody's been very supportive. You've been extremely supportive throughout all this with yourself, the Patriots Discord community. So from the bottom of my heart, I want to thank you for all of the support and all of the congratulatory messages that I've received. And I hope that I can continue to make everybody happy and make everybody proud with the coverage I provide. But bottom line, it's only as good as those that are there to support you. And I am very fortunate in that regard.

I have some great support. And it starts with you, my friend. So thank you very much. You're very welcome. I was very relieved when I read that to learn that you're still gonna be doing Locked On. And I'm gonna go, I meant to do this the other day, but I forgot, but I'm

going to do it today. I'm going to go subscribe to sports illustrated. I'm pretty sure I saw it's only like $30 for a year. That's crazy. So I'm going to go subscribe to sports illustrated later today. And I'm going to like put in the note or whatever that you're why. And I hope other people listening to this will do the same. Well, thank you, my friend. That is a very, very humbling compliment. Uh, I know SI will greatly appreciate that. You will not be disappointed. They do provide great coverage. Several of my colleagues at Locked On also work for SI now in the Maven side of things.

So a lot of great NFL coverage there. I'm very fortunate to be a part of that and to be a part of that great team now. But Locked On Patriots is a home to me as well, and I'm so glad that I was able to continue and will be able to continue on as host of this podcast. If for any other reason it gives me the opportunity to talk ball with guys like you, Murph,

Steve Balistrieri, Klazzy, Claire, all of the regulars, Miguel, all of the regulars here on Lockdown Patriots were very happy to hear that I was maintaining the microphone here, and I was very happy because happy to hear that I was maintaining the microphone here. And I was very happy because it gives me the chance to share the microphone with all of you great people. So, you know, it really it's a win win in all situations. And, you know, here we are today.

Here we are today talking training camp on day two of mandatory mini camp. So now that the pleasantries have been shared back and forth between both sides, Stefan Gilmore, bud, your take on whether or not this can come to a happy medium. Some people are saying this is a formality and these guys are going to come to an agreement soon. There are some within the fan base and even within the media that seem to think that this may be more problematic than people think. What's your take on the situation right now? You should have let me do the transition there because at one point you said, you referenced the people doing great coverage and I was going to say,

speaking of great coverage, to circle back to Gilmore. But yeah, so Hightower is back last week. Cam is back from his injury as of yesterday. And OTAs are over over now this is this is mini camp mandatory mini camp so it's not optional uh and uh hightower and camera back but gilmore is not and that stood out to a lot of people uh it stood out to me but it didn't surprise me very much because the discussion around gilmore for a while now has been that he wants more money. There's a reason we've been talking about his contract all offseason, really. As soon as the trade deadline passed,

the conversation went from trading him to potentially extending him or possibly trading him in the offseason. So I mean, I'm not surprised. It stood out to me, but i'm not surprised it stood out to me but i'm not surprised he has a year left he signed his contract in 2017 he got a little bit of a raise last year last offseason uh for nothing in particular except the fact that he won defensive player of the year uh the year before that but he's one of the best defensive players in the league, and he's still not paid like one of the best defensive players in the league, and from the Patriots standpoint, there's some intrigue here, not just from the holdout, but the fact that his contract expires after a year, so we, if we're going to give him a raise, we're also probably going to want to get more than one year of Gilmore, so I'm not entirely sure what's going to happen. I should also mention

that Karen Grigian, and forgive me, Karen, if I pronounced your last name wrong. I'm having a mental lapse about how the last name is pronounced and terrible pronunciations. Nope. No, you're right. You're wrong. Okay. Grigian. Is that an Italian last name? Is that why you know? Actually, no. Grigian is Armenian. So...

Oh, okay. Okay. Okay. So she's one of the most respected and trustworthy reporters. Maybe not quite on Mike Reese's level, but you can make a good case that she's number two in terms of the most respected and trustworthy people who report news, like information. If you're getting something from Mike Reese or from Karen, you can assume that it's true for sure, even more so than other credentialed journalists. Without the Western gold standard there. You can assume that it's true for sure, even more so than other credentialed journalists. So she confirmed that it was over a contract dispute. I mean, what else would it be about? I think often people think things that are happening relate to more than money when actually they're just over money when it comes to, you know, little things like this, like internal drama for for signed players but then also things like where players go and stuff like that um maybe it was probably a factor for why tom brady left like uh money is you know money talks it's like uh what was that movie about agents from the 90s

show me the money yeah like that like jerry mcguire right like jim time crew said and jerry mcguire show me the money it cruise said and jerry mcguire show me the money it's all about money gilmore uh is one of the best defensive players in the league he's not paid like it he wants to be the patriots probably would be happy actually giving him a raise just for this year just just like they did last year just like a little bit of a you know behave so to speak money but you know he probably wants more than they're willing to give and he probably wants an extension like he probably wants he wants a multi-year extension big money from a particular team and he wants to play for the team that's giving him big multi-year

money this season so that is probably what the patriots are going to be more reluctant to do as opposed to just sort of giving him a little bit of uh make a nice money right now for this year they're probably gonna be reluctant to give him a multi-year deal. That is part of why we didn't take on Julio. Like people were making comparisons with the Julio trade and, oh, they only gave up a second and comparing it to other trades or draft picks or whatever. But for Julio, the real point of contention for the Patriots was definitely the money, especially the post 2021 money. We would have had to pay Julio for future seasons. So now we have another opportunity to pay an elite player for multiple

seasons instead of Julio. And I, I think they should do it. I don't know what they're going to do. I, part of the reason my predictions usually come true is that I don't make predictions and I'm not sure. I really don't know what's going to happen because it isn't in a player of his age to big money for

multiple years and that is definitely what he wants but he's also a superstar they can make an exception for him the fact that they didn't get Julio is maybe a little bit of data suggesting that they are hoping to to make Gilmore happy and to keep him for multiple years. And, you know, it wasn't really like the Patriots to sign. I mean, it was more because they had so much cap space, but still, it's unusual for the Patriots to sign so many free agents like they did this offseason. And it was unusual for the Patriots to sign Gilmore in the first place. Like, you always got to expect the unexpected. So there is no usual for the Patriots there's nothing more

like the Patriots and making exceptions to their own rules when it's justified so could they give him a lot of money like they have for special players in the past yeah absolutely uh should they yeah I think so will they I honestly have no idea yeah and I think that's a good assessment and I'm glad that you brought up uh the surprise level of when Gilmore signed that deal back in 2017. I think Patriots fans forget that an awful lot. And everyone was saying we should have given that money to Butler instead. Absolutely. I just took the words right out of my mouth.

Brilliant. Brilliant. Because that's exactly what the narrative was at the time. Malcolm Butler, you have him on roster. Why are you giving all this money to stefan gilmore he was you know mediocre we were hearing in uh in uh buffalo and that there was a lot that um was left to be desired in terms of the fan base's expectations when it came to and he was not very good his first few games here because it took him time to learn the system properly he had that terrible i think

he confused cover four for cover six or vice versa or something, but he had a terrible missed coverage in that Kansas City loss week one of 2017, if people remember. Absolutely. And it did. And the fan base was on him. The Twitterati were out in full force. And you were starting to hear rumblings about maybe Gilmore is not the fit that everybody thought he was going to be. Obviously, put in the work ethic. He put in the work ethic. He put in the work. He was able to learn the system. He was able to be comfortable in the system and the work that he's done here since has been tremendous. And you can make the argument that he's one of the big reasons why the

Patriots have remained in contention and have one of the best defensive backfields in the league perennially because of that anchor play of Stefan Gilmore. But ultimately, I agree with you. I think what this is going to come down to is a happy medium between what Stefan Gilmore wants and what the Patriots want and what either side is willing to give. Our good friend Miguel Benzon has said on your cast, he's talked a little bit here on Locked On Patriots about it. He's tweeted about it.

This is really about whether or not Stefan is going to be willing to accept being paid commensurate with a 30-year-old corner or a corner that is on the north side of 30, which is right now approximately about $16.7 million if you take what Darius Slay is making in Philadelphia. Or does he want to be paid at the top of the heap with a guy like Jalen Ramsey out in Los Angeles, which is 20 million annually. So if that is the case, it may be difficult for the Pats and Stefan to work something out long-term

because I also agree with you. I think Stefan is looking more for an extension rather than just a little bit of a pay bump this time around. I'm not so sure the Patriots are looking to go that route either. So this is going to be interesting. As I like to say, my sharp eye is squarely on Stephon Gilmore. And I know all of you out there listening are also watching this story very closely as well. So great insight, Doug. I'm glad that you brought up a few things that I think a lot of the fan base tends to forget about Gilmore and about what these negotiations may entail. And ultimately,

it's going to play itself out over the course of the next few days and weeks as we head toward training camp into July. If this is still a top of the mind storyline when it comes to opening training camp and there doesn't seem to be much progress, yeah, this is going to continue to fester. And if you think the story is big now folks uh this is still top of mind in late july it's only going to get bigger and it's only going to be more uh you know coverage and um you know more headaches i guess is the best way to put it for a lot of you out there uh that might be stressing over whether or not stefan gilmore uh you know has a long-term future here in new england this is how this is

how negotiations work right like it's going to it's going to take time and now that there is sort of these skin in the game situations like gilmore can do something to like show i don't know play his hand so to speak by not showing up to something that is technically mandatory like this is this is when the real negotiation is going to start. Bill said in his press conference today that he doesn't expect, or I don't know if he strongly implied it, but the media took away from his press conference that Gilmore's not going to be here at mandatory minicamp. So soon we're going to be in the real off season in late June

and most of July where there's nothing football related happening. So that's all we're going to be talking about for that period. So I think if we see a deal or if we just sort of figure out what's going to happen my guess would be that it's going to be like right as training camp is starting um and i do think we should do it i want to double down on that maybe they can figure something out that's heavily incentive based where he gets you know he's not going to get as much money if he gets hurt or if he doesn't make the pro bowl or whatever. Um, or based on team success, I have a feeling that that's sort of what they did with Gronk those last

couple of years before he retired and then came back. Uh, as there was some tension there with his contract was they just, they did some heavily incentive loaded, uh, deals where you can make a ton of money if, if those incentives are reached. I think we might do something like that and do something that's spread over, you know, two or three or four years. And I definitely think we should because we have a great secondary, but we have a secondary great secondary because we have Gilmore. Theoretically, there's a lot of depth, but there's actually not that much depth when it comes to outside corners, like proven outside's a really good number two he's a ball hawk but I don't think he can be a number one shutdown corner necessarily at least he hasn't proven that he can be um and you need at least two anyway and we only

have JC Jackson for another year so just because we have a good secondary now doesn't mean we will if Gilmore leaves or if Gilmore and JC Jackson leave. So I, I would obviously, you know, and Bill, we trust in all that, but I would really like to see an outcome, especially given that we didn't get Julio. I would really like to see an outcome where we do extend Gilmore. And because we signed all those FAs and like, and we need to do, if Mac is starting in 2023 and 2024, you know,

we want to make use of this window where Mac is still on his repeat contract and we just signed all those free agents. So we want, you know, we want to win now or win now mode. So it all, it all really, all the data lines up that it's the right thing to do. I suspect the Patriots agree with me that it's the right thing to do. And what's actually happening now is negotiation. Yeah. Good point. And Bert Breer of MMQB brought something up very similar to that in his column late Monday evening into Tuesday morning, basically stating that all of the work that the Patriots have put into this offseason so far is really predicated on having someone like Stephon Gilmore in the defensive backfield. Now, I know that may seem like a little bit of a stretch

to some. Some may look at that as a little bit of an exaggeration, but it makes more sense than you think. And I think Doug hit on it perfectly. You did a good job on that, but basically stating that if Gilmore is in the fold, it makes life that much easier for someone like J.C. Jackson, who has the potential to be a number one corner, but he's not quite there yet and we saw that last year struggled when Gilmore was not in the lineup and I think having someone like Stefan alongside him for at least one more year will give the Patriots an option to be able to say yes he's ready to take that leap or he's still not ready to take that leap so you know what we're going to let him go and test the waters elsewhere and try to take our chances in building the cornerback for the future here in New England maybe with Stefan Gilmore alongside him for the next foreseeable future. So a lot to digest when it comes to Patriots cornerbacks, but we're going to flip the script a little bit here, my friend, and we're going to talk about another hot topic,

maybe the hottest button topic out there in Patriots fandom, and that is the quarterback position. Cam Newton injures his hand during practice. Folks, he injured his hand during practice on June 4th, and he left practice, was not able to return, did not return to the practice field right up until as recently as last Thursday. Practice opened to the media. Cam was not available at that point. Bill Belichick took to the microphone yesterday to open up mini-cam, and he did advise that Cam had returned to the media. Cam was not available at that point. Bill Belichick took to the microphone yesterday to open up mini-cam, and he did advise that Cam had returned to the practice field on Friday, was going to be expected to be a full

participant on Monday. And again, we talked about this a little bit yesterday here on Locked on Patriots, but Cam is once again out there. He's performing, struggled a little bit with accuracy yesterday to be expected with his hand issue but um you know we're not sure how much that seems to um exactly and the rain a big you know factor the weather was definitely a factor yesterday another good mutual friend of ours evan lazar reported yesterday that the hand didn't appear to be a really deciding factor in either way cam's performance that it really was more probably

about the weather getting the rust off and and getting back into the swing of things jared stidham continues to perform at an adequate level he's getting the ball around uh apparently according to mike giardi yesterday had the throw of the day which was which was dropped uh nice seam rowdy uh along the other side i guess he took a deep shot. That wasn't caught, but it was still a fairly nice throw. And Mac Jones really emerged as the quote-unquote quarterback winner yesterday among those that were suited up and taking reps and getting a chance to look good in terms of decisiveness and also in terms of completions and whatnot. Doug, it's always so difficult to put medals on quarterbacks at this time of year.

Mandatory minicamp is always good to take a look at the arm of a quarterback, but really not much else. The pads aren't on. It's very difficult to get a handle as to how these guys are going to respond to in-game scenarios. You really can't tell much until the pads go on. And that won't be until, you know, a few practices into training camp in July. So really maybe August before we really know what we have here in the quarterback room.

When you look from start to finish, including Bill Belichick's comments this morning on his press conference, basically stating that Cam continues to work hard. He's way ahead of where he was last year. What do you take away from all of this? And is there a likelihood that a quarterback competition could be brewing in training camp this year? I should hope that he's ahead of where he was this time last year because we didn't sign him until the last couple days of June. But I assume Bill means relative to his time in the offseason program. I actually wrote about that very point this morning. I think a few people made that joke.

I think everybody did. What is more typical of Patriots fans and patriots media than copying each other's jokes and just all of social media making the same joke to pander so i am a man of my people um and but it is relevant that he like i mean everyone had a shortened off season last year but it's especially relevant if you're a quarterback which probably helps explain why br had a short, had a weak start relative to obviously his fantastic finish last year and was still impressive that he played as well as he did last year, despite that. But if you're a quarterback around a new team, or if you're a younger player, right, or you're joining an especially complex offense like the Patriots have, Like, we all had a short offseason last year, but I had affected the Patriots disproportionately, and I think it affected Cam Newton disproportionately

because of the complex offense we run, because he's changing teams, because he's a quarterback. It probably affected Nikhil Harry disproportionately as well. So that is definitely something to keep in mind, and it's one of the many reasons people like Evan Lazar, who was on the Untitled Patriots podcast, by the way, or Tom House or the Patriots themselves are so much higher on Cam than the fans.

Maybe they're wrong, but I am optimistic. Like I'm excited to see if Cam is better. I think a bounce back is definitely in the cards for that. So I'm hoping that happens. I have a lot of faith in him. I mean, if you look at his career before last year, there weren't these signs of tremendous decline. He had one injury, and then he had one bad season last year with all of that

and also dealing with COVID and also dealing with an offense that just wasn't that good, which is part of why Tom Brady left and why we were bouncing the wild card around the year before. Obviously, he's going to have way more help this season with those tight ends and everything. So I'm really excited to see Cam this year. I do still think he's most likely going to be the week one starter. There is a QB competition between two QBs, between Mac Jones and Cam Newton.

But I think you have to say that Cam Newton is the favorite. I think Mac Jones will be given the opportunity to blow the coaching staff away in training camp. Not now, but in training camp. Like if he can prove that he is decidedly, decisively the best quarterback and gives us the best chance to win right now in week one, then I think if he can do that. Well, we can start and be our starter for the full season, if not, and Cam Newton is going to be our starter this year. And that's fine. And Matt can take over in year two or year three and help his development along. So, I mean, I love both those guys. I'm rooting for both of them.

I expect Cam to be the starter, but I think Mac will be given a fair chance. But if it's close, I think they're going to defer to the veteran. I thought it was great that Stidham said that he hopes to be the Patriots starting quarterback one day. I thought that was adorable. You know, some people were dunking on him for that. I don't think it's fair to dunk on him for that I think I think I love it when young people have like high aspirations you know when I was a kid I wanted to play in the NHL um

throws up career goals um but for now if he wants to believe that he can be the Patriots starting quarterback one day I think that's just great uh I think you know I want to like take that quote and put it on my fridge because I'm just so proud of Stidham for you know shoot for the moon because even if you miss you land among the stars all of that and I think it's great that he's I think it's great that he's playing so well because uh maybe we can get a conditional seventh form or something if he keeps this up all offseason yeah I mean look bottom line competition is good for

anybody especially when it comes to nfl quarterbacks and if you feel that you're competing with yourself or you're competing with the guys around you it's going to bring out stellar play and it's going to force you to be better than maybe you believe that you were or maybe that you know other people believe that you were i think that's true of all the quarterbacks on the roster. So it's good to see the competitive fire being burnt throughout the quarterback room. It's good to see camaraderie. Everyone is, you know, being complimentary of one another. Looks like they're helping one another out. And that's something that I think is very important.

Did you see that photo of Cam and Mac laughing together? Absolutely. Big distinction between them and their respective fanboys, huh? I know. It really, really is. It amazes me that the fan base has room in their hearts for only one Gero, folks. We're all in this together. We said it the last time, Doug.

We are all Patriots. And if you want the Patriots to be Super Bowl champions, you have to learn that it's a collective effort of 53 men on this roster, and that's going to be a daunting task, you know, cutting this down to 53. We're going to talk a lot about that, Doug, as we work toward training camp and into training camp. Conversation for another day, or we'll be here all day just on that one. But it is a collective effort, and I think that you put that very eloquently. So great stuff on Gilmore, great stuff on the quarterback position. Why are we surprised, Pats fans? Doug brings the wit and the wisdom of the council.

Breathe life into the studios here on Locked On Patriots as he does every time he's here. But folks, we're not done yet because there is still a lot to talk about in New England when it comes to the Patriots, minicamps, hot takes, all of the above to be discussed. Hear Doug's thoughts on the rest of the recent Patriots rumblings when this Tuesday episode

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Locked On listeners, we've all heard the phrase often imitated but never duplicated. It's a part of the sports fans lexicon. And that's because only the best athletes and sports teams can provide you with the best possible moments. And in that vein, the only ones who could provide the best healthy, low calorie and delicious treats to satisfy all of your snacking needs are the ones who provided the best in the first place. That's right, folks. I'm talking about Built Bar because no one can do it like they do it. Bilt Bars are available in a multitude of delicious flavors, 100% real chocolate, soft, easy to chew, and they're not only low calorie and low sugar, but also high protein and high fiber. Bilt Bar has no crazy additives, half the calories of

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We talked a little bit about Stephon Gilmore. Those have been the big stories surrounding the Patriots as they open minicamp. And we're now in day two of that process. Day three, obviously, wrapping up tomorrow on Wednesday. Between OTA and between rookie minicamp and between mandatory minicamp, we hear an awful lot about the disservice that it did to the 2020 roster last year, not having all three of these entities there. So that way, players

could get used to playing with one another, get used to the coaching staff, get themselves physically, mentally, emotionally, and intellectually ready to absorb the playbook, to be able to execute on the field. So that way, when training camp rolls around, you have an idea of what to expect. This year's 2021 class will not have that excuse. Not just Cam Newton, not just individual players, but everyone as a whole is starting on the same level playing field. as a whole is starting on the same level playing field. And they're essentially playing on the same playing field that the 2019 team had. When you look at OTAs, when you look at minicamp and especially mandatory minicamp that's going on right now, what emphasis do you place on the importance of all of this? And do you think

it'll make a much, do you think it'll make a marked difference when it comes to the 2021 output as opposed to 2020? I think having it is huge. In terms of evaluating players, how much emphasis do I put on it? None. And however much emphasis the people listening are putting on it, none. You should put less than you do. Bill Belichick emphasizes this all smart people. So it's not just a Bill lie to screw with you.

This is something that's true of every team and that every smart person I've ever spoken to has emphasized to me. Just like Bill does all the time to the media, these are teaching camps, not evaluation camps. Players on the same team do compete with each other because there's a finite number of roster spots and a finite number of salary cap and all that.

That competition starts in training camp. Right now, they are teaching the players. This stuff we do a month and a half before training camp starts or longer, like right now it's a month and a half before when it started. A bit more. This is to teach.

Yeah, talking about the Cam Newton and Mac comparisons that were going around yesterday and people were taking these cherry picked clips of Mac overthrowing some people or having some wobbly passes yesterday. Well, besides the fact that he just came back from a hand injury and

playing in the rain, I also read that the purpose of that drill was to overthrow the players like they were they were aiming for a particular spot and that was left out of these videos um so cam's passes are actually a lot better if you keep that in mind but then um on top of that if for the reporters that actually counted how they were each doing mac only completed one more pass than camp despite the fact that it was that that cam is coming back from a hand injury and it's not really an evaluation anyway so that just kind of shows like how much is missing and everything and like

like a lot of players say including a lot of good players i think jimmy garoppolo said this i'm not sure he actually said it though it might have been a quote from another player that someone in the media was applying to jimmy but there's this great line that was i want to make my mistakes now because if i make my mistakes now i won't make them training camp and if i make them in the offseason in general i won't make them in the meaningful games so it's like like you know there's a saying uh um there's no such thing as a stupid question only stupid people who don't ask questions well this is like the nfl equivalent of that so if you want to think of it and mark scofield years ago in the old version of my podcast uh first made this analogy i think

but it was like a uh if you think of like a school year right now is the lecture and whatever we're evaluating that would be like evaluating uh a student for asking structure uh we're not like the the we're not even quizzing them yet okay like the quizzes and and the first assignments those are like the beginning of training camp the final exam is the pre-season and the end of training camp right now we're literally just watching a lecture uh so i think in general i mean the quarterbacks are obviously the thing we're talking about the most but in general we you really like you got to learn from the past. And people who have been, who are in the media or who have been following the offseason for a while,

maybe some of the older fans, like, we've seen these patterns. Just like we've seen the patterns in the draft. That's how I knew there weren't going to be four quarterbacks going in the top six, like a lot of people said. Like, that never happens. There's always these same patterns

with this offseason stuff where we get hyped or we draw all these big conclusions during OTAs and minicamp and it turns out to be total BS. In training camp, you can kind of do that. It's hard because the media still doesn't see everything because we don't know as much as them. But in training camp, you can somewhat legitimately do that. It's really hard, but you can maybe make a legitimate guess.

In OTAs, I really don't think you should be evaluating anyone during OTAs. By the way, Mac wasn't even throwing the same passes as Stidham and Cam and Hoyer until yesterday. Like last week, he was only exclusively doing checkdowns and stuff. So as of this recording, we have one and a half of Mac even doing real passes. So just don't ignore the noise, okay? Just ignore the noise. That's great. That's absolutely a great point because so much of perception out there is how it's,

it's basically how it's presented. And I'm glad that you put that, that was a drill that was designed for overthrowing the, uh, the receiver, things of that nature. The Patriots definitely have these types of drills and these types of circumstances that allow their players to be able to grow and be able to do things maybe a little bit against the grain most NFL teams will do that and that's not something that is overly publicized so naturally you're going to get the 20 second 10 second uh you know video bite of cams throw looking a little wobbly or overthrowing and naturally people are going to say oh here we go

here's quarterback one more of the same when not really understanding what the concept is of what's going on behind it so again once again my friend great insight when it comes to that and i i do happen to agree with you when it comes to the evaluatory process of things like rookie mini camp of things like ota especially and even mandatory mini camp. I mean, this is a little bit more structured and you're having players that are required to report. So it's more of a complete roster that you're going to be seeing at training camp and seeing how these guys interact with one another. But it's far too early.

Once again, as we said earlier, and I've said several times here on Locked On Patriots, whether it be with Murph or Steve or yourself or even Miguel, not much can be really taken away from these until the pads go on. That's when it steps up and that's when it becomes real. And that's when I think you're really going to see some good competition, not just at the quarterback position, but at a lot of positions because the Patriots do have some loaded depth charts when it comes to a lot of the positions on their roster, both on offense and on defense.

Patriots fans, Doug truly brought the wisdom and counsel today here to the pod, and I want to thank him for his time, his insight, and his appearance. Be sure to check him out and follow him on Twitter, at DougieFootball, D-O-U-G-G-I-E-F-O-O-T-B-A-L-L. Also, be sure to check out the Patriots Discord community at Patriots.Fans. That's at Patriots, D-O-T-F-A-N-S. And last but certainly not least, be sure to subscribe to and follow the Untitled Patriots podcast hosted by Doug and Lee Schechter.

This week's episode will feature another good friend of the program here on Locked On Patriots, CLNS Media's Evan Lazar, who always brings the knowledge, and I strongly encourage you to check that out. Again, always fun times when I get to share the microphone with Doug, and as Doug would say, go Pats! And as for Locked On Patriots, we will be back here tomorrow to continue to bring you the latest news notes and analysis from Foxborough and Day 3 of Patriots Mandatory Minicamp. So to ensure that you do not miss a single second of the action, download, subscribe to, and follow the Locked On Patriots podcast

on platforms such as Spotify, the Odyssey app, Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts, just make sure that you are staying locked in to Locked On Patriots. Once again, my name is Mike DeBate. Again, I thank Dougie Football for his time, insight, and appearance on today's pod, but most of all, I thank you so much for listening and for continuing to make LockedOnPatriots a daily part of your New England Patriots coverage.

Until next time, Foxborough faithful, stay safe, stay well, be the change you wish to see in the world. Have a great day, everyone.