Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Emerging: Will Campbell’s Arrow Pointing Up | McDaniels’ Radical Change?

Starting point is 00:00:00 Assessing Will Campbell's first NFL training camp. That's what we start in this episode of Lockdown Patriots. You are Locked on Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked On Podcasts Network, your team every day. What's up, Patriots fans? I'm your host Nick Cattos, born and raised in New England, also host of the Everything Pats podcast, co-host of the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast. with Nick Cattels and a sports talk show host veteran. On today's episode, a major shift to the old Josh McDaniel's offense could be on the way and the difference a coaching staff could make.

Starting point is 00:00:41 But first, it's time to look at the Pat's top pick and tell you where he's at in his development. We appreciate you joining the show, making us your first listen. And for being an everydayer, the Lockdown Patriots podcast is a proud partner of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Will Campbell is working. He's working on proving the haters wrong. And he's had an interesting camp. Doug Kide after the second preseason game against the Vikings posted that Campbell ranked fourth among all offensive tackles in pro football focuses preseason grades at that point with an 86.2 mark. Andrew Callahan, he wrote about Campbell's early portion of last week in practice. On Tuesday, he wrote, nice day for Will Campbell, who didn't allow. a sack during 11-on-11s.

Starting point is 00:01:29 He allowed one, maybe two pressures, including one against K. Levan Chase-on. Of course, Chas-on's been a beast during this camp. We'll get to him a little bit later. Mike Giardy recently wrote about Will Campbell. Arrow up. His combination of athleticism, strength, and the requisite nastiness was always going to play in that regard. Aside from Michael Wenu, Campbell has had the best camp of any of the Pat's offensive

Starting point is 00:01:55 linemen. It hasn't been perfect. But the fact that Campbell has been one of the two best offensive linemen in his rookie camp, I think means a significant amount. There were questions about Campbell, whether or not he was going to be able to block at the NFL level. Now, of course, maybe he'll have issues. And it's all early on, and this is only his first NFL camp. But let me ask you this, if we heard about Campbell struggling day after day after day, especially in team drills, one-on-ones are different. one-on-ones are much more difficult.

Starting point is 00:02:28 You have friends when you have 11-on-11s. You can leverage your teammates. You can leverage the left guard. You understand what's going to be coming at you, and you can react to that. When you're going one-on-one, and these past rushers are doing all sorts of crazy spin moves and swim moves,

Starting point is 00:02:46 and it's a much more difficult situation and scenario for any offensive linemen. But the fact that Will Campbell was not struggling, day in and day out, during team drills, during 11-on-11s, that makes you feel good. Yeah, he had a difficult day against Jonathan Grenard during Vikings week. But I thought it was interesting. Greg Bedard told me that, you know, the day everybody talked about Campbell giving up six sacks

Starting point is 00:03:10 or whatever it was, or the offensive line giving up six sacks and Campbell giving up two or three, whatever it was, that day, that day Campbell took like 50, 75 snaps against Grenard. I know Greg said it was upwards of a hundred. If it was upwards of a hundred, then that's like playing in two games, three games. So you have to understand the context. A lot of these one-on-ones, a lot of the mono-a-mono battles, people are getting used to each other. They understand what you're going to try to do.

Starting point is 00:03:41 So when you look at it in totality, as Mike Garty wrote, and Mike's not a guy that's going to throw bouquets at the feet of people. As Mike wrote, Will Campbell's arrow is pointing up as we head into the first week of this NFL season. And that's precisely what you want to hear. That's precisely what you want to read. You would feel much worse if Will Campbell's arrow was pointing down. You would feel much worse if Campbell was getting absolutely abused and torched every single 11 on 11. But he's not. And he wasn't.

Starting point is 00:04:14 What we had was an expected up and down process for a guy who's 21 years old. And he played at the SEC at a very high level, as we know. But he does have challenges that he. has to get better at. He has to get better at speed to the inside. We all know that. And that's going to be an issue. It's just can he minimize that issue as he continues to progress? And he had a couple of great challenges during this camp. He had the aforementioned Grenard, who's one of the best pass rushers in all of football. He also had a guy that I just mentioned a moment ago in Kay Levin Chase-on, who had a terrific camp. It went against a Vikings defense that's

Starting point is 00:04:54 No joke. Terrell Williams, Mike Vrable, made it tough on this offense as well. During practices, they ran stunts. They ran twists. They ran games up front to try to get Campbell and Jared Wilson together on the same page. So Will Campbell, I think mostly an expected up and sometimes down camp for who he is and where he's at in his career. But the intangibles in the traits stand out. If you're watching Campbell, you see the athleticism you see the athleticism in the run game he is an absolute wrecking machine in the run game and that matters because if if he's going to be let's say average and past protection let's say he gets beat every once in a while on an inside move if we accept

Starting point is 00:05:43 that and we say that's going to happen every once in a while that that's kind of like part of his makeup he's going to get beat every once in a while to the inside in past protection but overall, we say he's an average, if not slightly above average left tackle and pass protection. If we are able to say that, then he's going to have a very good career because we all know he is excellent in the run game. And we've seen that in this preseason. We've seen that during the camp. His athleticism is off the charts. And that helps him. That helps him get to that second level. He also has the nastiness. And that's another reason why he's so good in the run game. He has that finish that Mike Vrable talks about. And I love that because this offensive

Starting point is 00:06:25 line to me over the past couple of years, they were missing that. They were missing that element, that they were missing that nastiness that Will Campbell brings to the table, finishes a playoff, finishes a guy down to the ground all the way until the whistle blows. You need some of that tone to be set in the offensive line room. And he is that guy that can do that. He's doing it already at 21 years old. He gives you second effort all the time. He's always giving you second effort on the field, which again sets the tone. And that matters when you're an offensive lineman. When you give second effort, when you have that finish, you open up the lanes for the runners. You create opportunity for your offense when you do that. Continue to finish. If you give up, you might give up

Starting point is 00:07:12 on a play. Now, the one thing I still am wondering is whether or not Josh McDaniels will decide to help Will Campbell out a lot? How much will he help him out? How much will we see running backs chipping on the left side? How much does Josh McDaniels trust Will Campbell at the beginning of this season? Because the way that this offense is scheme and some of the things that McDaniels can do as the OC will tell us how McDaniels and Doug Marone and Mike Grable, how they truly feel about Will Campbell at this point in his career. If they're helping him a ton in the first month, and I'm not saying I'm opposed to that, do what you think is best for the football team.

Starting point is 00:07:57 But if they are helping Campbell out a lot in this first month, it tells us that they feel like he's got some learning to do. But if they put him on an island for the majority of the time, that tells us the opposite. And of course, we're still wondering who's going to be playing next to Will Campbell this season, at left guard? Is it going to be Ben Brown? Is it going to be Jared Wilson? It feels like those are really your only two options at this point. Maybe Caden Wallace makes the team. Maybe Cato Wallace makes a push by the middle of the year, but it feels like this is Wilson or Brown. And that's going to be a big challenge. Because Will Campbell has to make sure he's on the same

Starting point is 00:08:38 page as that guy next to him. And they are good, especially in past protection. But average. I know he was a fourth pick. And I know everybody said, oh, if you're going to pick somebody in the top five, you've got to pick a stud in the draft. We talked about it heading in. this was a draft that did not have a ton of truly elite players at the top. And if Will Campbell ends up being an average to above average left tackle for the next decade, I would take that every single day of the week, even at that fourth pick. Speaking of Josh McDaniels, he seems to be making a major philosophical. change to his offense.

Starting point is 00:09:17 That's coming up as we continue with today's episode of Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Guys, you've probably heard of Viagra or Seattleis. Maybe you've even tried them, but if you're looking for something beyond the usual pill, it's time to meet Ruggiet Ready. Ruggiet Ready is a next-gen prescription treatment designed to amplify arousal in the brain and boost blood flow. Unlike the usual pills that can take out.

Starting point is 00:09:45 hours, Rougiette's 3-1 formula dissolves under your tongue and kicks in fast. On average in 15 minutes, effects can last up to 36 hours so you can stay confident and in control when the moment is right. If traditional options just haven't worked for you, Rougat might be the answer. You know, over 150,000 men have already made this switch. Head to Rougiette.com slash lockdown NFL. Use code lockdown NFL to get 15% off today. That's Ruggiette, R-U-G-I-E-T-com slash lockdown NFL.

Starting point is 00:10:20 Use promo code lockdown NFL for 15% off. Individual results may vary with prescription treatment. Compounded drugs are permitted to prescribed under federal law but are not FDA approved and do not undergo FDA safety, effectiveness, or manufacturing review. Please visit the Ruggiet website for full safety information. August 26th is officially Fandul Futures Day, a brand new holiday for football fans who live for bold predictions and pre-season hunches. For just 24 hours,

Starting point is 00:10:49 Fandul is giving you deals on NFL season predictions. So whether you're calling your MVP shot, eyeing a long shot, division winner, or ready to crown your Super Bowl champ before week one even kicks off. This is your moment. I was talking my buddies over the weekend. We're all talking football.

Starting point is 00:11:05 We're all looking at the divisions. Who's going to win the division? Will it be the Vikings in the NFC North? Or maybe you like the Packers to sneak up on some people and you don't feel so great about those. Detroit Lions. Check it out. August 26th, officially Fandul Futures Day, a brand new holiday for football fans who live for those bold predictions in the preseason hunches. Maybe you just want to crown a champion straight up and pick your Super Bowl winner. Visit the FanDul app today and

Starting point is 00:11:31 start planning your futures bets now because Futures Day is one day and one day only. August 26th, Fandul, play your game. So check this out. We have a have an important request. A lockdown wants to hear from you. We've put together a survey to learn more about our listeners, make your favorite podcasts, hopefully like this one even better. This is your chance to tell us what you like, what you don't, and answer questions about our advertising. Go to lockdownpodcast.com slash survey to get started. Everyone who completes a survey will be entered for a chance to win one of $10, $100 Amazon gift cards. Again, that's lockdownpodcast.com slash survey. You could also find the link in the show notes. Check them out. Thanks for helping us out.

Starting point is 00:12:20 All right. Let's get to Josh McDaniels. McDaniels seems to be turning his run game approach upside down for 2025. What am I talking about? Well, before McDaniels was officially hired by the Patriots again as the offensive coordinator, we had a lot of conversations about how he might change his offense, how he went around the country. He went to college campuses. He went to NFD, he went to NFL. NFL facilities, and he learned from other play callers and wanted to mix some things up. And so what we're seeing here is most of that mixing things up is actually going to be in the run game if McDaniels is going to follow suit with what he's done in this preseason. Evan Lazar wrote this at Patriots.com. One possible schematic shift in this iteration of the McDaniels offense is incorporating more outside zone run schemes rather than the downhill gap runs. are accustomed to seeing from McDaniels against Minnesota, four of the eight run plays while

Starting point is 00:13:20 Drake May was under center were outside zone schemes. So 50, 50%. The Pats mixed in duo and lead slash lead draw plays, but it's becoming clear that outside zone, according to Lazar, will be more prominent this season. Given their coaching histories, it's not surprising that McDaniels and Vrable could direct a run plus play action heavy approach to play a physical brand of offensive football. Josh McDaniels loves running the football. Mike Vrable loves running the football.

Starting point is 00:13:55 That's all good as long as you can run the football. I don't want to see two yards in a cloud of dust every single play. If you can run the football effectively, then that is only going to help your offensive line and it's only going to help your young quarterback. And I expect McDaniels and Vrable to go into this season saying we are going to set the tone. We are going to be that physical brand of football, as Lazar wrote about. And we are going to try to punish front sevens. And we are going to punish those front sevens until they start to tap out or devote more people to the run game against us.

Starting point is 00:14:32 And then we're going to open some things up here. I would not be surprised. That's my expectation. This football team is going to run the ball an awful lot. I've been saying that for months. I said it several months ago that this offense was going to be more run-based than people realized. And I think we start seeing that come to fruition very early on, like week one against the Raiders. So let's get back to this McDaniel's idea, though, of running a different type of run offense

Starting point is 00:15:04 and deploying more outside zone scheme than he has ever done. It's an interesting change for sure, and I think it's a change that's a better fit for your quarterback. When we talk about Drake May, we talk about his athleticism. Now, he's not Lamar Jackson. He's not of the Michael Vick-esque athlete. It's not who he is. But he can move pretty well for a guy his size with his frame.

Starting point is 00:15:29 And that athleticism lends itself to an outside zone run game because what you do on outside zone if you watch the shanahan stuff the kubiak offense that's what it is and when you watch that you have a lot of bootleg action from the qb that system relies on a quarterback that can run bootleg in may is actually better as he rolls out to his right when he's on the move throwing the football a lot of times he's actually better under those circumstances versus just standing in the pocket like a statue. So when you have somebody like May who's better rolling out, throwing the football on the run to use the outside zone scheme to fake that run, work the play action,

Starting point is 00:16:16 then have May bootleg to the right and find an open receiver. That makes a lot of sense because it fits Drake May's skill set better. And one of the things that we discussed a lot during 2024 was whether or not, Alex Van Pelt was utilizing Drake May's tools as a quarterback as much as he should have. And I don't think he did. And I'm sure many of you would agree with me on that. So when you run outside zone, you are running a system that is going to be better for your quarterback. It's going to utilize that athleticism. It's going to make defenses think. It's going to challenge defenses by having them defend May and his legs and his ability to throw on the run.

Starting point is 00:17:01 It's a different kind of element. So use it. Use it to your advantage. It's precisely what you should be doing. The system also will make it better on the offensive line. It will help the offensive line because many will tell you, it takes a little while. It takes a little while to learn the. ins and outs of an outside zone scheme.

Starting point is 00:17:27 But once you do, once you have those details down, the offensive line and the offensive skill players, they will tell you that it tends to be easy. It tends to be easier. You don't have to think as much. And so that will help the offensive line. But moving the pocket, getting May on the move will also help the offensive line. It'll buy them some extra time. You won't have May sitting back there like a sitting duck or a statue waiting to get

Starting point is 00:17:54 punished. So you move the line of scrimmage, you move that pocket, and that helps the offensive line because it gives them just a little bit of extra to buy that time for your quarterback and for your offense to run the play. And you challenge, you challenge the responsibilities of the defensive line when you're moving that pocket. And so it helps the quarterback, especially this specific quarterback, it helps your offensive line. It helps your offensive line. And when you look at that O line, it makes more sense now that the Patriots paid a lot of attention to athleticism. Because when you are running an outside zone scheme, you want offensive linemen that can get to that second level, that can get upfield. And we've

Starting point is 00:18:44 seen that in this preseason. Look at Will Campbell's relative athletic score, 9.91, 15th out of all offensive tackle since 1987. Jared Wilson's relative athletic score was 9.84, 12th out of all centers since 1987. Garrett Bradbury, relative athletic score, 9.96. Third out of all centers from 1987 to 2019 when he came out, a 9.96. Now, Michael Wen, who didn't have a relative athletic score due to lack of measurements. And Morgan Moses was way down at a 2.13, which put him 561st out of 712 tackles. But if you watch Morgan Moses play,

Starting point is 00:19:31 if you watch his film, he's actually good in space. He can move around for his size. So look at the offensive linemen they have. Campbell, Wilson, Bradbury, those three guys are athletic studs. And if you have Owenu and Moses doing their job in space, then you have an offensive line. that will allow you to run this outside zone system.

Starting point is 00:19:56 And as I mentioned a little while ago, it sets up one of McDaniel's favorite things, the play action. And you will see that. You will see the play action bootleg down the seam to a tight end. You will see it. All right. One camp standout could be shining a light

Starting point is 00:20:12 on how important this coaching staff truly could be. That's next as we continue with today's episode of Lockdown Patriots, It's part of the lockdown podcast network, your team every day. This episode is presented by Yahoo! Fantasy. The NFL season is right around the corner. You can field the buzz. Fantasy football season is here. Everyone's researching, drafting, and building their championship squads.

Starting point is 00:20:38 And if you haven't joined a league yet, now's the time. It's all happening on Yahoo! Fantasy. I mean, you should join, whether you're a first time or a veteran, creating your millionth league with season kickoff on September 4th, 9th. Now is the time to start playing Yahoo Fantasy Football, which offers so many fun ways to compete. You want more ways to play? Try the brand new Yahoo Fantasy a guillotine league. Of course, that's a mode where the lowest-seated scoring team gets eliminated weekly until one team is left standing.

Starting point is 00:21:05 You want to play instantly with friends. Try the new draft with Friends mode. Prefer the classics. Get your crew together and go head-to-head in a private league. And if you have no crew, no problem. Join a public league. It's the easiest way to play. The NFL season kicks off September 4th, so don't wait.

Starting point is 00:21:22 Start your league now. Draft now at Yahoo! Fantasy.com slash locked on NFL. That's Yahoo! Fantasy.com slash locked on NFL. Last season, it never felt like the coaching staff got the most out of their talent. It just never felt that way. I watched a team and didn't see any progression from anybody.

Starting point is 00:21:48 I didn't see anybody getting better or at least significantly better from beginning to end. And that is a coaching question. That is a coaching problem. And when you talk about Mike Vrable, it might be a cliche at this point, but cliches are cliches because they're true. Mike Vrable's calling card is usually getting more out of the talent than he has on his roster. And you just look at somebody like Ryan Tannihill, for example, in how good Tannahill was in Tennessee with Vrable. Now, of course, Vrable's not an offensive coach, but he gets the best out of his players, mindset, you know, being ready, that preparation, the details that Vrable goes over. And nothing is too small for him to not pay attention to.

Starting point is 00:22:33 So last year, staff, we had that huge question of, are these guys even ready? And can they make these players better? Will we see improvement? And we didn't. We didn't see any of that. This year, I fully expect this team to get better throughout the season. and I fully expect Mike Vrable to make several players on this roster better than they truly are, better than what their talent would tell us they are.

Starting point is 00:22:58 It's one of the things that he does. And when you look at Caleb on Chase on, I just can't help but wonder, is he going to be one of those players that we look back and say, man, oh man, they signed Chase on to a one-year deal. And we thought, okay, that's an interesting deal. Maybe as a sub-pass rusher, all of a sudden the dude was starting. opposite of Harold Landry and putting together a very good season because if Chaseon's season is going to be like his camp, he could be a stud. And I'm not telling you he's going to be a stud,

Starting point is 00:23:28 but if his regular season is close to what camp in the preseason have looked like, he is going to be a very good football player for you. He's going to be very productive on the edge. And Taylor Kyle's of CLNS did a great job. He posted some things about Chase on that were written about him when he was coming out of LSU. And Kyle's wrote, reminder, this is how teams were talking about Chase on coming out of LSU. Lance Zerline of NFL.com, he had the comparison to Alden Smith. Now, Alden Smith, of course, away from the field, had plenty of challenges and really

Starting point is 00:24:06 derailed his own football career. But on the field, Alden Smith was really good in a game-changing type pass rusher. And in Zerlain's overview, he wrote, Possessing an Impressive Diversity of Multiple Pass-Rushing Ingredients and Moves, Chase-on has begun putting the recipe together to become a game-altering pass-rusher. While some long-limbed rushers lacked a bend and leverage to maximize their length, his fluidity and agility allow him to dip corner change direction and close in tight quarters or with extended range. Zerline closed out writing, it adds up to an increasingly.

Starting point is 00:24:43 increasingly confident projection, an increasingly confident projection as an impact pass rusher with Pro Bowl potential. That's what was being written about Chase-on from Lance Erlon. You could look at something else that was written. One LSU coach said that Chase-on's the best pass-rusher he's ever coached, but that that talent didn't show up as production and said, you know, that will scare some fans. But Chase-on brings a truly special combination of traits and tools that make him NFL ready as a pass rusher and off ball linebacker.

Starting point is 00:25:18 So the tools, the talent was all there. But Chase-on just could not consistently put that as production on the field. And that's why I look at Chase-on as maybe one of those examples that we look back and say, Mike Vrable, Terrell Williams, Mike Smith, the outside linebackers, pass-rush game specialist, those guys got the best out of K-Levon Chase-on. they found a way to get to him. They found a way to utilize him and whether it was teaching him certain techniques,

Starting point is 00:25:52 mindset, preparation, like I said earlier, whatever it was, that was the coaching staff that got the Chaseon. Now, I should say, Chase on was good at the end of last year for the Raiders. So maybe you give the Raiders coaching staff some credit as well for starting to unlock Caleb on Chase on. but if he is truly unlocked from week one through week 18 and he gives you that highly productive

Starting point is 00:26:17 season as a pass rusher off the ball linebacker if he's that guy then man oh man i mean you look at and say rable and williams and smith they got him to fulfill his potential and if he fulfills his potential you look at the pass rush that this pat's defense could have with chase and Barmore and Milton Williams and Harold Landry. By the way, Landry has looked good in camp. Still has that fast first step. So you look at Chase on your two interior defensive linemen who are going to be rocks on this team for you,

Starting point is 00:26:55 and then Harold Landry. That's a pretty good pass rush. That's a pretty good top four. That's a productive top four because you know Landry's going to get his sacks. You know Williams will get some sacks. You know Barmore will get some sacks as long as he's healthy. And if Chase on ends up even being 85% of the guy that people thought he could be coming out of LSU, you have four guys that can get to the quarterback.

Starting point is 00:27:20 And it also helps you recruit other players. If you're Vrable and Williams and Smith and Josh McDaniels and 2026 is offseason, you go into that offseason. If you show improvement as a team overall, but you also show individual improvement from players, That becomes a sexy thing to use in free agency as a recruiting tool. You can say, hey, we can revitalize careers. We can get the most out of you. We can get you to fulfill that potential, which means you're going to make more money.

Starting point is 00:27:55 If Caleb-on-Cheson has a big year, he's going to go into free agency, and he's going to sign a really good contract, whether that's with the Patriots or somewhere else. And Vrable can look at it, say, you see Caleb-on-Chayson? he came to us on a one-year deal, short money. Now he just signed a long-term deal with X amount, fully guaranteed, because we got the best out of him and we could get the best out of you. That's a recruiting pitch. And it gives me hope for the drafts moving forward, that you have a staff that can work with the tools that these picks have

Starting point is 00:28:29 and get the most out of them. I have, I would say, more optimism for sure about this coaching staff being able to develop young players than I had, and they'll have staff. And if you can get that pass rush from a chase on, Barmore, Williams, and Landry, and you can marry that with coverage. If Gonzalez and Davis are healthy, that's when you start looking at this defense. And even though they don't have every solution, you look at this defense and you say, they could have a high ceiling.

Starting point is 00:29:01 Because if you marry a really good pass rush with really good coverage from your top two corners, that makes it hard on any offense, on any offense. So Caleban Chase on, going to be interesting to watch him play this season. That wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriots. Reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C. Radio. And don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube channel. And don't forget to hit that like button and subscribe. Thank you for making Lockdown Patriots your first listen.

Starting point is 00:29:29 And for being an every day. For your second listen, check out Lockdown Fantasy Football with hosts Vinnie Iyer and Kate magic find lockdown fantasy football on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcast. Have a great day and we will see you tomorrow.

Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Emerging: Will Campbell’s Arrow Pointing Up | McDaniels’ Radical Change?

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.