Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Expert: Patriots Defense Primed For 2025 Breakout | Blockbuster Impact

Starting point is 00:00:00 One of the best film analysts pumps the tires of the Pats defense That's where we start on this episode of locked on Patriots You are locked on Patriots your daily New England Patriots podcast Part of the locked on podcast network your team every day. What's up, Patriots fans? I am your host, Nick Cattles, born and raised in New England, also the host of the Everything Pats podcast, co-host of the Greg Bedard Patriots podcast with Nick Cattles and a Sports Talk Show host veteran. On today's episode, the latest big time NFL trade

Starting point is 00:00:40 unequivocally impacts the Pats 2025 season. We'll also discuss a position that could, and I stress could be both a short and long term concern, but first a defensive breakout in 2025 isn't only possible, it could be likely. We appreciate you joining the show, making us your first listen and for being an everyday or the Lockdown Patriots podcast is a proud part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. And remember, we are giving you a podcast Monday, Wednesday and Friday for now, not this Friday, 4th of July, of course, enjoy your holiday weekend. But we are going Monday,

Starting point is 00:01:17 Wednesday and Friday for now until we get back to five days a week, Monday through Friday, beginning on Monday, July 14. And today's episode is brought to you by our friends at Fandel. Right now new customers can get $150 in bonus bets when your first $5 bet wins. offense gets all the headlines. offense is the sexy part of football, fantasy football, betting, all of those things. And we have spent a lot of time and justifiably so on the offense. We've spent a lot of time on Drake May. But I'm here to tell you friends, the Patriots defense has game changing potential. And I'm not the only one that thinks that.

Starting point is 00:01:59 Ted Wynn of the athletic actually listed the Patriots as one of a few teams primed to quote unquote breakout in 2025. Here's what Nguyen wrote in part, the Patriots just had one of their worst defensive seasons since at least 1999. The 2024 defense had the worst defensive EPA per drive for the franchise since 99, the furthest I can go back for EPA stats. That's bleak, but the Patriots defense could make a major bounce back this season.

Starting point is 00:02:31 The Patriots are well built on every level. This could be the unit that makes the biggest jump this season. Not only did Ted Winn write that at the athletic, but Marcus Spears on ESPN NFL live, they ranked his top five most improved defenses. The Broncos came in at number one, the Patriots came in at number two. And I 100% agree. This defense is no joke. Let's start with the front seven.

Starting point is 00:02:59 The defensive line, simply put, is going to be disruptive. Milton Williams, Christian Barmore in the middle, Keon White, Harold Landry on the edges, Kayla Von Chaison to come in as well as a substitute pass rusher. Maybe we see more than Braden Swinson than we think, but this disruptive defensive line is going to cause all sorts of issues for offense. And not only is this defensive line going to be disruptive, but it is also going to be versatile. Milton Williams is not going to sit in the middle of the defensive line all game long. He's going to move along

Starting point is 00:03:36 that D line. Keon White is going to move along that D line. So a disruptive and versatile defensive line with some young, talented cats. Then you get to the second level. We look at linebacker and unlike Patriots defenses of the past, especially the recent past, this linebacker core is going to bring speed. This linebacker core is going to be able to go sideline to sideline. This linebacker core is going to bring speed. This linebacker core is going to be able to go sideline to sideline. This linebacker core is not your Bill Belichick linebacker core. And hopefully these linebackers will improve the run defense because last year's run defense just wasn't good enough. Here's Mark Daniels of Mass Live writing about the linebackers in this defense. In Vrabel's attacking style defense, he utilizes smaller and more athletic linebackers. Christian Ellis at 6'2", 231 pounds, fits that

Starting point is 00:04:33 mold as does Robert Spillane, 6'1", 221 pounds. And Jelani Tavae reportedly has shed a decent amount of weight. Let's get back to Ted Nguyen of The Athletic. He writes, Spillane might not be as splashy as the other Patriots signings, and I've talked about that in the past, but he'll be a quiet lynchpin on the second level. Competent linebacker play is increasingly harder to find. Spillane's excellent at diagnosing the run and is an underrated zone defender. So Ted Nguyen loves himself some Robert Spillane's excellent at diagnosing the run and is an underrated zone defender. So Ted Nguyen loves himself some Robert Spillane. I love myself some Robert Spillane.

Starting point is 00:05:11 And then you look at the coaching staff, the guys that will be working with this front seven, Terrell Williams, defensive coordinator, but has long been a defensive line coach in the league, very well respected. Mike Smith, also very respected. Outside linebackers coach, pass game rush specialist, Zach Kerr, inside linebackers coach, Terrell Williams singing the praises of Kerr when he spoke with the media. So there's your front seven. Then we get to the secondary. We all know about Christian Gonzalez, don't we? Christian Gonzalez's ceiling is simply elite.

Starting point is 00:05:45 I don't think anybody would argue that. A second team all-pro in his second season after missing 13, 14 games during his rookie year. This is somebody who's only played in 20 games. An elite ceiling. Let's go back to Ted Nguyen to talk about Gonzo. Last season, Gonzalez was only targeted 84 times in 16 games and had one of the lowest target rates in the league outside of the red zone. Teams did test him to no avail. Christian Gonzalez' shutdown ability,

Starting point is 00:06:28 shutdown ability. Eraser ability has all the potential to be one of if not the best corner in football. He just turned 23 years old. Happy birthday. Just a couple of days ago. He's only 23. And as I mentioned, he's only played in 20 games. We talk about players all the time making that year three leap. Gonzalez isn't even close to getting to that point just yet. Yes, it's his third year in the league But he's nowhere near the 34 games under the belt that you need until you feel like hey I've been here for two seasons. I know exactly what's happening It's exciting to think about Gonzalez's ceiling. It's exciting to think about what he can do this year. And then you've got Carlton Davis, old steady,

Starting point is 00:07:13 cornerback, too, experienced guy, press man coverage, tough to deal with. And as Ted Nguyen wrote, having two excellent cornerbacks is a luxury most teams don't have. The 2025 Patriots have that luxury. Now the safety spot, Duggar, Peppers, can Duggar bounce back? I think so as long as he stays healthy. But you've got some other people in there in the mix as well. You've got Craig Woodson, who won a lot of people over writing about him during OTA's

Starting point is 00:07:47 and mandatory mini camp. You've got Dell Pettis, who proved that he could play in the NFL last year as an undrafted free agent. And you've got other guys. Slot Corner. You've got Marcus Jones. You've got Alex Austin. You've got Isaiah Bolden.

Starting point is 00:08:04 Maybe you even have a Marcellus Dial. All three levels of this defense has answers. And then you get to the head coach and Mike Vrabel and what he preaches. This defense is going to be physical. This defense is going to be tough. This defense is going to be tough. And this defense, as Raible always talks about, is going to finish.

Starting point is 00:08:30 They are going to tackle. They're going to finish plays. They're going to finish drives. They're going to make sure that they get the job done on third down. If it's fourth and short, they're going to get the job done. A physical, tough, finishing defense. A responsible defense. Assignment responsible. short, they're going to get the job done. A physical, tough, finishing defense, a responsible

Starting point is 00:08:46 defense, assignment responsible, communicating much better than we saw in 2024. The responsibility and accountability is going to be there from day one on that side of the football. Mike Vrabel is a details guy. This defense, along with Vrabel and Terrell Williams and the rest of his staff, they are going to be buttoned up on the details, unlike 2024. And Mike Vrabel has shown us during his time in Tennessee, if there's one thing that he has proven

Starting point is 00:09:17 is that his team will exceed expectations through injuries, through chaos, they will exceed expectations. In this defense, I think, they will exceed expectations in this defense. I think is going to exceed expectations. This has all the fixings of being as Ted Nguyen wrote, a breakout defense in 2025. So as excited as you are about Drake May and year two, and I get it, and I'm with you. You should also be excited about

Starting point is 00:09:45 this defense. Two AFC teams make an explosive trade. How will that deal impact the Pats? My thoughts next as we continue with today's episode of Lockdown Patriots, part of the Lockdown Podcast Network, your team every day. Summer sports are in full swing and whether you're all about baseball under the lights, golf on the green, or high stakes soccer action, FanDuel is the best way to make every game even more exciting. You're already following the action, we know that. Why not make it a little more thrilling? With FanDuel, You can get in on the game while your friends are getting sunburned at the beach You know, I've been using FanDuel to track my favorite matchups The app keeps it fresh with new daily promotions fun ways to bet

Starting point is 00:10:34 I mentioned same game parlays earlier whether I'm placing a same game parlay or watching a bet ride into the ninth inning FanDuel makes it feel like I am part of the action. And if you're new to Fandual, new customers can bet just $5 and get $150 in bonus bets if your first bet wins. Open the Fandual app today. It's easy. Or you can visit Fandual.com slash Lockdown to get started. Fandl makes it all better. This Pittsburgh Steelers Miami Dolphins trade, and I think I would classify it as a huge trade. Some really talented players dealt between the two teams.

Starting point is 00:11:19 That trade is going to 100% have ramifications for your New England Patriots. And if you missed it, if you've been living under a rock, if you're on vacation because of the holiday coming up on Friday, I'll fill you in. Pittsburgh received Jaylen Ramsey, John U. Smith in a 2027 seventh round pick. The Dolphins meanwhile received Minka Fitzpatrick

Starting point is 00:11:42 in a 2027 fifth round pick. On top of that, Miami slashes salary, a la the Celtics over the last couple of weeks. Miami gets some salary relief, and then they make an interesting move subsequently by trading with the Giants for recently retired, now unretired, Darren Waller. Pretty interesting 24 to 36 hours for the Miami Dolphins, and that's where I want to start because Miami's messy. Miami is a little bit, maybe even a lot of it, messy. The head coach, Mike McDaniel, is on the hot seat.

Starting point is 00:12:22 We all know it. He knows it. He has not won anybody over. Seems like his time is fading down there in Miami. There have been reports about how some players, some veterans not necessarily in love with the idea of Mike McDaniel. There are two trends during this Mike McDaniel era for Miami.

Starting point is 00:12:43 One trend is that they lose to good football teams. The second trend is that they stink in bad weather. And they've got to prove those things to be untrue in 2025 if they want to have a chance. So you've got McDaniel on the hot seat. Then they trade John Oosmith. And this just feels like a money move because John Oosmith, I understand how we feel about John Oosmith. I understand what we witnessed with John Smith in New England. It wasn't good. But John Smith

Starting point is 00:13:11 last year, he was really good for the Dolphins. 88 catches, 884 yards and eight touchdowns, lots of eights, but 88 for 884 and eight touchdowns. That is a very solid season for any NFL tight end. And now the Dolphins are moving on from Smith, who was a safety blanket for most of last season for two Atanga by Lowa. Now you move on from Smith and replace him with a guy who hasn't played football in over a year. What does Waller have left? He's in his 30s. I don't know. Maybe he ends up being fantastic, but the Darren Waller that I remember before he retired was ravaged by injury.

Starting point is 00:13:55 This just reeks of desperation for Miami. And Tyreek Hill's coming off of a 2024 that he's not proud of. He is now in his 30s. He's unlikely to be the same guy he was two, three, four years ago. So Miami is messy right now. They got a left tackle and Patrick Paul that he was just bad last year. He was Viderian low levels bad, if not worse. I think he was worse according to Pro Football Focus. And he right now is gonna be their left tackle. I guess they're gonna hang their hat on the pass rush because they do have talent on that side of the ball in the pass rush. You got Zach Seeler, you've got Jaylen Phillips, you got Bradley Chubb, you've got Chop Robinson.

Starting point is 00:14:40 They drafted Kenneth Grant from Michigan. So they do have some talent on that defensive line and they're going to have to stay in games with that pass rush. But there's a lot of questions with Miami and if you're the Patriots, I know it's going to be tough. Week two down in Miami is going to be a hot one. I understand it. And I know the history of how bad the Patriots have been for the most

Starting point is 00:15:05 part in Miami. It ain't going to be easy. But Miami's all over the place and it feels like the Patriots should be able to take advantage of that and maybe you don't split this year. Maybe you actually go 2-0 against Miami. We know Miami has to travel here to New England late in the season. They're not gonna love that So there's opportunity there and

Starting point is 00:15:29 Then we look at the other side of this trade with the Pittsburgh Steelers the Patriots host the Steelers in week three and They are all in They are all in for 2025 this to me feels like a team that understands Mike Tomlin is able to get them to the playoffs pretty much every single year. He'll crack nine, 10, maybe 11 wins. He'll find his way into the playoffs, but then they usually get stomped. They have been a bad playoff team for several years under Tomlin. And this is your last chance, Mike. That's how it feels. We're going to go all in.

Starting point is 00:16:08 We're going to bring you Aaron Rodgers. We're going to sign him to the one year deal. We're going to trade for DK Metcalfe. We're going to trade for John O. Smith. We're going to give you every single solitary chance to prove your worth with this team. We are going all in. Chips, middle of the table.

Starting point is 00:16:23 Let's see what you got. Can you win with this team in the playoffs? I'm not sold. Arthur Smith OC smart guy, obviously had Smith John who that is with him, you know, in his early years. Maybe you get a lot out of John who I wouldn't be surprised. And it's not just offensive stuff We can say to talk about offensive stuff because as I mentioned earlier in the show

Starting point is 00:16:49 It is the sexy part of football but look at the defense the defense for Pittsburgh and and I want to especially Focus on the cornerbacks because bringing in Jalen Ramsey. This is a very interesting assortment here You got a trio of Darius Slay, Ramsey, and Joey Porter Jr. All three of those guys have had different levels of success, and Joey Porter is seen as a good young corner. Slay has been terrific in his time for the most part, and we all know about Ramsey. So this Steelers secondary is going to be a headache for a lot of teams and it's not going to be easy for the Patriots in week three to deal to deal with you know those three cornerbacks Josh McDaniel's gonna

Starting point is 00:17:36 have to scheme some things now the biggest question about Pittsburgh is TJ Watt he wants a new contract seems like they're going back and forth. Watts not thrilled with the numbers that are on the table. We'll keep a close eye on that. But this is a reminder to me, if you're the Patriots, you've got to build your football team smart. The big picture, because Pittsburgh again, they're going all in. I can't tell you what the Steelers are going to look like in 2026, 2027, 2028. I have no idea who's going to be their quarterback. Slay is older. Ramsey is older. John who certainly isn't a super young guy. Cam Hayward is older. So I don't know what Pittsburgh looks like

Starting point is 00:18:23 in 2026 and Tomlin might be gone if they can't win in the postseason, if they get to the postseason. And then you get the Miami mess. They certainly look like they're starting to rebuild on the fly. So if you're the Patriots, the big picture here, not just this season when you play Miami twice and you play Pittsburgh in week three, but the big picture is what you also focus on here. Draft well, develop well. If you have success in the draft, that's how you get long term sustainability and long term stability. You have to get the draft right. If you get the draft right, you can sign guys to early extensions.

Starting point is 00:19:06 You don't have to worry about, okay, we're going to ship out George Pickens because he's a bit of a headache. We're going to make a big trade for DK Metcalf and give him the bag. We drafted Kenny Pickett. That was a mistake. So now let's try to deal with Justin Fields and Russell Wilson. Uh-oh, that's bad. So now let's bring in Aaron Rodgers for his final tour. So have some success in the draft. Get the early extensions done. And you can have long-term success. Mike Vrabel has pounded this point home, and it makes all the sense in the world.

Starting point is 00:19:40 Culture and character. Both teams, Pittsburgh and Miami, have dealt with culture and character issues. Make sure you're doing the homework and make sure you have a strong head coach. If you draft successfully, you take care of your young talent with early extensions, you make sure you bring in good culture and character. Not everybody has to be a choir boy, but bring in a lot of culture and character and make sure you get that strong head coach, which you do in Mike Vrabel. And that's how you cannot fall into some of these things like Miami and Pittsburgh's falling

Starting point is 00:20:17 into whether it's having to rebuild on the fly after disappointing or going all in because you really have no other choice. As we creep closer to training camp, tight end could be a bigger question than we might believe. I'll tell you why next as we continue with today's episode of Locked On Patriots, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Having some concerns about tight end as we get ready for training camp and look at that position status, having some concerns is legitimate.

Starting point is 00:20:54 Is legitimate. The Patriots did not draft the tight end as we know. We thought they might use a mid-round pick on a developmental tight end. That didn't happen. We know that the tight end position is crucial to a Josh McDaniels offense more often than not. We saw what he did with the two tight end sets, all those fun things. And you go back to 2021 with the aforementioned John O'Smith and Hunter Henry when you brought both those guys in. So we

Starting point is 00:21:21 know that McDaniels loves his tight end usage. And it just feels to me when you look at this position, getting ready for training camp, which is about three weeks away, as we get ready, there is just this this feeling that you need to hang on. That this position, the guys that are involved, the top two guys just need to hang on. Starting with Hunter Henry, I'm a big fan of Hunter Henry. I really am. Team player, dependable guy. He's gonna work through some injuries if he can. But the fact is, Henry turns 31 years old in December.

Starting point is 00:21:58 How much does he have left? He has played a lot of football. He has taken a lot of football He has taken on that, you know wear and tear He is somebody who prides himself into you know, trying to be out there every single week if he can Doesn't happen all the time But hunter Henry has played 119 games in his NFL career.

Starting point is 00:22:26 And when you look at it from 2020 to last season, he played in 14 games, 17, 17, 14, 16. He's played a lot of football over the past four or five seasons. Can he be Mr. Dependable again? And how will he work out in this McDaniel's offense? We have an idea. Because of what he work out in this McDaniels offense? We have an idea because of what he did in 2021. He was good in 2021, but it's not like he lit the world on fire. He played 17 games.

Starting point is 00:22:55 He started 10 of those 17, so he did not miss a single game for the Patriots. And Mack Jones is sorry to bring up that name. Rookie season. Henry finished with 50 catches, 603 yards and nine touchdowns. We just talked about John who having 88 catches for 884 and eight touchdowns. So Hunter Henry did not really have the type of season didn't come close aside from the touchdowns didn't come close to the kind of season Smith had last year for the Miami Dolphins. So, 2021 was a good season, not a great season for Hunter. And you hope that the wear and tear doesn't start to truly weigh on Henry because if it does, then those concerns we talk about at this position getting ready for training camp, they grow.

Starting point is 00:23:46 Those concerns get bigger, because then you get to Austin Hooper. And just like Hunter Henry, Austin Hooper is going to turn 31 during this season. He's going to turn 31 in October, two months before Henry turns 31. Hooper did not take part in OTA's mandatory mini camp. Now, was that an injury thing? I would have to think mandatory mini camp didn't really get involved much if at all. That's not something that is taken lightly.

Starting point is 00:24:14 OTAs, you could say he's a veteran. He's been around so maybe he doesn't get involved there. But, you know, the early phases of this camp season, Hooper has been Non-existent you hope that changes as we get to training camp, but I don't know if that's a guarantee and When you look at the career of Hooper the last time he had more than 46 catches was

Starting point is 00:24:41 2019 and You don't get better as you get into your late 20s early 30s. So the last time he had more than 46 catches was six years ago. Now he has had some experience. He with the current coaching staff he he played in Tennessee with Mike Vrabel there. He played in Vegas with Josh McDaniels. So how did he do? Well, Austin Hooper, during his time in Tennessee, which was in 2022, he had 41 catches, 444 yards in two touchdowns. So he was okay. Numbers that you would expect from more of a second tight end than a first tight end. He did play in all 17 games. He only started two.

Starting point is 00:25:26 So 40 catches, let's just say 40 catches, 450 yards and a couple TDs. That was with Tennessee in 2022. He then went from Tennessee in 2022 to join Josh McDaniel's team out there in Vegas in 2023. And he was an afterthought. 25 catches, 234 yards, did not find pay dirt. He played in all 17 games. So he played in 17 games. He started nine games. He started half the games that year and still only finished with 25 catches. Now, of course, there is a disclaimer. McDaniels during his time in Vegas, let's not forget in 2023, he was fired. He was let out the facility after eight games. So eight games into the season, McDaniels was fired.

Starting point is 00:26:17 So, you know, how much stock do we put in the Austin Hooper numbers of 2023? Not as much as we could if McDaniels was there the entire season. But 25 catches for 234 ain't it. And much like Henry, wear and tear, you got to wonder how much Hooper has left. So you've got two older guys as your first and second tight ends and you just wonder if that's going to catch up with them and You would hope that the Patriots had some kind of developmental tight end, but from what I have read things are not going well CJ Dupree was pretty much in one word bleh At OTAs and mandatory mini camp along with rookie mini camp. CJ Dupree didn't really

Starting point is 00:27:07 show up. Now it doesn't mean he can't have a good camp. Maybe he will. But right now when we're talking about this, the beginning of July, CJ Dupree hasn't shown much of anything. G Scott, another young tight end they brought in as a UDFA, he hasn't shown a whole heck of a ton. You might ask about Jaheim Bell. Jaheim Bell, what I have read, the only thing that stood out to me is that he keeps dropping the football. So Jaheim Bell hasn't been in. So Henry and Hooper, and then Bell ain't working out so far. Scott ain't working out so far. Dupree ain't working out so far. That leaves you with Jack Westover.

Starting point is 00:27:51 Are you pumped and jacked about Jack? I'm not. So tight end, if you're asking questions about that position, I get it. As we get ready for training camp, that's the status. Two older guys at the top of the depth chart, some wear and tear going on, can they get through this season?

Starting point is 00:28:12 And then you really don't have a developmental guy who's popping in any kind of way. Which leads us to the 2026 off season. And just remember, we got to stick a pin in this. tight end should be a huge target to be upgraded. Next offseason, it's not like tight end is a number one receiver. I mean, if you're Travis Kelsey, but it's not as much of a need as an alpha wide receiver or a blue chip pass rusher. But tight end if you look at this roster how it's set up we just went

Starting point is 00:28:45 through it. They better find some answers next off season. Hooper's on a one year deal. Henry doesn't have much left. And really none of the young guys are standing out. So that's going to be one of those needs when we get to next off season. But that's next off season. For this training camp. Let's see what happens. Let's see how Henry looks. Let's see if Hooper is out there on the field. And let's see if any of those younger guys can actually show up and improve upon what they showed or didn't show during OTAs and mandatory minicamp. That wraps up this edition of Lockdown Patriots. Reach out to me on Twitter at Nick C Radio. And don't forget to throw a comment in on the YouTube channel. Oh, and also don't forget to hit

Starting point is 00:29:28 that like button and subscribe help brother out. Thank you for making Lockdown Patriots your first listen today for your second listen. Check out Lockdown NFL scouting crabs, Marino make you the most informed NFL fan this off season. Find Lockdown NFL Scouting on YouTube or wherever you listen to podcasts. Have a great holiday weekend. Be safe, have fun, hang out with the family and friends and we will see you on Monday.

Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Expert: Patriots Defense Primed For 2025 Breakout | Blockbuster Impact

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