Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Football Friday with Fox: Patriots Offseason Talk with Tanya Ray Fox — 1/8/2021

Episode Date: January 8, 2021

The New England Patriots will be faced with many questions this offseason, in all three phases of the game. Joining host Mike D’Abate is Tanya Ray Fox of FS1 to discuss the likelihood of the Pats’ pursuing Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson, the pros/cons of Josh McDaniels returning as offensive coordinator, Patriots’ priority free agents, and putting an end to the talk surrounding Tom Brady, Bill Belichick and the amount credit each should receive for New England’s success.Support Us By Supporting Our Sponsors! Built BarBuilt Bar is a protein bar that tastes like a candy bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code “LOCKEDON,” and you’ll get 20% off your next order.BetOnline AGThere is only 1 place that has you covered and 1 place we trust. Betonline.ag! Sign up today for a free account at betonline.ag and use that promocode: LOCKEDON for your 50% welcome bonus. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast, part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello to all of you Foxborough faithful. You are now locked into the Lockdown Patriots podcast. Today is Friday, January 8th, 2021. And to close out the first week of the new year, we'll be telling it like it is here on your daily home for news notes and analysis infused with the occasional opinion on your six-time Super Bowl champions, the New England Patriots. Greetings and salutations, Patriots Nation.

My name is Mike DeBate, your host of the Locked On Patriots Podcast, which of course is a proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. And folks, because it's your team every day, that means your questions, comments, and feedback are always welcomed and greatly appreciated. Feel free to share that feedback anytime by reaching out to me and following me on Twitter at MDABATEFPC. And while you're out there giving the weekend nod and saying how you doing to the Twitterverse, please be sure to follow the Lockdown Patriots account as well at LO underscore Patriots.

Pats fans, with NFL wildcard weekend for the 2020 season set to kick off this Saturday, 1 p.m., when the Indianapolis Colts take on the Buffalo Bills, it's going to be a bittersweet time for all of us Patriots fans. We love our football, and you know we'll be watching. But if I'm being honest, it just isn't the same. The Patriots and their fans usually have a pretty sharp eye on wildcard weekend. Most of the time in the last 20 years, it was to scout who the Patriots might be playing in the divisional round.

Occasionally, they suited up and took on a team during the wildcard round. This year, the Patriots are on the outside looking in when it comes to the entire playoff picture. And as much as it pains me to say that, it isn't any less true. But even though the Patriots won't be suiting up or scouting for potential opponents this weekend, it still doesn't mean that the team is no longer relevant. Far from it. There are a ton of questions to be answered this offseason, and the Pats face some very

pivotal decisions that will help determine their fate not only in 2021, but maybe even beyond that. And for the better part of this week, we've been laying the groundwork for a lot of discussion that we will be having in the offseason here on Locked on Patriots. And in continuing with that mode, it's my honor to welcome a guest today whose wit and wisdom are unparalleled in this business, and someone who's never afraid to tell it like it is. My good friend Tanya Rae Fox joins me here today, rekindling the Fox on Fridays vibe

here on Locked on Patriots, and Tanya and I will talk Patriots free agency. Which free agents are indelible pieces that need to be brought back for 2021 if the Patriots have any chance of competing for a playoff spot this season. We'll also talk about the latest rumors surrounding the quarterback position, which I will address in just a moment. We'll also take a look at the Patriots coaching staff, primarily Josh McDaniels. Does the fact that Josh has yet to interview for an open head coaching position mean that he's a foregone conclusion to return in 2021?

And last but certainly not least, we know that a great deal of you in Patriots Nation will have your sharp eye affixed to the TV on Saturday night. Old friends Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski, along with Antonio Brown, I guess, take the field as ex-ates turned buccaneers as they will take on the Washington football team in the wildcard round. And I know just the mention of Tom Brady's name doesn't scent some of you out there in Patriots Nation. You're probably rolling your eyes saying,

he's not the quarterback anymore. He's been gone a full year. He's not a Patriot. We don't have to talk about him. Well, if you look at social media, you'll see that this is still a very hot topic amongst the fan base. Even among the national media, people constantly want to compare Tom Brady with Bill Belichick and who was more responsible for the success of the Patriots' most recent dynasty.

In my humble opinion, the answer is quite simple. Brady and Belichick were simply better together than they would be apart. It was time for both sides to move on, and that's where we're at right now. But not a lot of people want to leave it at that. Well, my good friend and guest today, Tanya Ray Fox, has some strong feelings on the subject. And trust me, folks, Tanya is

not afraid to tell it like it is. So an action-packed On The Pod today, a great way to end the week in style here on Locked On Patriots. And in just a moment, Tanya Ray Fox of FS1 and the Almost Shameless podcast will join me to take you into your NFL wildcard weekend with a little New England Patriots flavor. But as you just heard me mention, there are some rumors circulating around

about the Patriots quarterback position. And for once, it doesn't include Cam Newton, Jared Stidham, Brian Hoyer, Jimmy Garoppolo, Matthew Stafford, or anyone else on the list of usual suspects. This name is pretty prominent, one of the best quarterbacks in the game that apparently isn't too happy where he is right now. Houston Texans quarterback Deshaun Watson. And these rumors have been long bandied about as basically a pie in the sky type desire for Patriots fans, but yesterday, these rumors actually picked up a little bit of steam after Pro Football Talk's Mike Florio reported that, quote,

rumors were circulating and that he already heard from multiple different people that Deshaun Watson had quietly broached with teammates the possibility of requesting a trade. And apparently, this stems from Watson's discontent with the Texans' recent hiring of former Patriots director of Player Personnel and new Texans GM Nick Casario. Based on some comments that Watson had made firsthand, when he signed his four-year, $156 million contract extension back in September, he was told by Texans management that he would have a pretty strong say in Texans personnel decisions, meaning who the next general manager would be. By extension, once Bill O'Brien had been fired,

it was assumed that Deshaun would have a great deal of input on who the new coach would be in Houston. Now, I'll caution you to say nothing here has been made official. Watson is still very much under contract with the Texans. The Texans haven't given any indication that they would even entertain the idea of trading him, but once the rumor's out there, it's kind of hard to put it back in the bag, and naturally, the speculation machine went into overdrive. And as you can imagine, it did not take long for the New England Patriots to be one of those teams with which Deshaun Watson was linked by a rumor.

Just on the surface, this actually makes sense. It's highly likely that the Patriots are going to have a pretty big need at quarterback during the offseason. Watson is without question one of the best in the league, so the need is definitely there. Money-wise, the Patriots might be able to make this one work. If in fact Deshaun Watson gets traded, he would cost his new team $10.54 million in 2021. Of course, from 2022 to 2025, that number jumps significantly. $35 million in 2022, $37 million in 2023, $32 million in 2024, and $32 million in 2025. That's a lot of money, especially after 2021.

But as Nesson's Doug Kye had pointed out, considering that Houston has already handed out the $27 million signing bonus in Watson's contract, it would still come in below market value for a quarterback of his caliber. As our good friend Miguel Benzon, aka the Pats cap, has said many times, the Patriots are projected to have a good amount of cap space this year, so money really does not have to be the issue here. So all of a sudden, these pie-in-the-sky rumors don't seem so impossible anymore, do they, Pats Nation? Well, not so fast. I believe that the Patriots making a trade for Deshaun Watson, while not impossible, is highly unlikely.

And this time, it's not going to be because of monetary cost, it's going to be because of capital cost, meaning draft capital, players currently on the roster. Look, most teams in the NFL would automatically be better with Deshaun Watson playing quarterback for them than who they have right now, save for a few. But if the Patriots, or any team for that matter, want to try to trade for Deshaun's services, Houston's asking price is more than likely going to include multiple first round picks. And I'm not talking one or even two here, folks. I'm talking three, maybe even four. And with 14 other teams right now scheduled to pick ahead of the Patriots in the 2021 draft, any one of those teams could

theoretically offer a better package than what the Patriots would be bargaining with right off the bat. That would mean that the Patriots package would have to include their 2021 first rounder, their 2022 second rounder, and almost certainly their 2023 second rounder. But that would probably just be the starting point. My guess is that Houston would want the deal sweetened with either NFL-level talent coming back to them in addition to those three picks, or some combination of second, third, or maybe even fourth rounders. When you start entering negotiations that require that type of draft haul, it can severely handcuff you for many years to come.

I know, the fan in all of us is saying, who cares? Deshaun Watson is a generational talent. Do whatever you have to do to get that man in a Patriots uniform, and you can fix all the other holes at a later time. And if that is what you're thinking, I can't necessarily say that I completely and utterly disagree with you. But keep in mind, folks, the Patriots are not just one quarterback away from being a Super Bowl contender.

The Patriots have multiple questions at multiple positions, including wide receiver, tight end, defensive line, linebacker, even the secondary. Bringing in Deshaun Watson more than solves your problem at quarterback, but without a competent team around him, you're likely looking at another season where the Patriots have talent, but they just can't seem to put it all together. If your early round draft capital is compromised for a number of years to come, then the Patriots have talent, but they just can't seem to put it all together. If your early round draft capital is compromised for a number of years to come, then the Patriots would be building a roster with late round draft picks. That's not necessarily the best way to rebuild a contender. For those of you thinking they could

just go the free agent route, well, keep in mind that quality free agents at these positions are going to cost money. And while Watson's 2021 salary would not really be that much of a hit against the cap, starting in 2022, Watson's contract would would not really be that much of a hit against the cap, starting in 2022, Watson's contract would start to eat up significant cap space, making it difficult for the Patriots to maintain the type of roster it's going to take to surround Deshaun Watson with championship caliber players. Again, logistically, the Pats could make it work. If in fact Deshaun Watson does become available, and again folks, this is all speculative at this point, no one knows whether or not he's actually going to even be put on the trade block,

I would think the New England Patriots would do their due diligence, but eventually it looks like they'd be priced out of this market, simply because I think there are other teams out there equipped to give up a little bit more to get Deshaun Watson in the fold, meaning that the Patriots might be best equipped to arm their rebuild with another quarterback and some quality players around them. So, again, Pats Nation, that's my two cents on Deshaun Watson and the possibility of his arrival here in New England. I say it's highly unlikely but not impossible. Of course, I could be wrong.

And the last thing I'm trying to do is rain on anyone's parade. But what does my good friend Tonya Rae Fox think about all this? Well, I'll ask her this question, along with a whole host of others involving Cam Newton, Josh McDaniels, Patriots free agents, and why arguing over whether or not Tom Brady or Bill Belichick was more responsible for the Patriots dynasty is a real waste of time. Fox on Fridays, when the Lockdown Patriots podcast continues. But first, Lockdown listeners, when it comes to repairing and maintaining your car, why would you choose to spend 30%, 50%, even 100% more for the exact same auto parts

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mercifully over. It's time for a fresh start and a few more wins. And if you're betting this year and you want more of those wins, listen to Lockdown Bets with your boy Q and Lee Sterling of Paramount Sports. They are picking college basketball, football, and NBA locks all winter

long subscribe to locked on bets wherever you get your podcasts pats fans wild card weekend is about to begin and for the first time in more than a decade i know i sound like a broken record folks bear with me here for a minute there is really no rooting interest in this region unless of course you come on foxborough south down there in tamp. We'll get to them in a little bit. But as we've been saying all week long here on the pod, there is still a lot to talk about when it comes to your New England Patriots. And believe it or not, we haven't even chipped the tip of the iceberg yet. So to help me continue our deep dive into the Patriots fate is one of our favorites

here on the pod. Locked on Patriots family returning on a Friday, someone that is the best at providing spot on insight with razor sharp wit. And you know, her great work from platforms such as USA today, NFL network, NBC sports, Boston,

and I'm just naming a few. She is currently providing amazing work for FS one and her podcast. The almost shameless podcast is folks. Sincerely, highly recommended by yours truly and Twitter. FS1 and her podcast The Almost Shameless Podcast is folks sincerely highly recommended by yours truly and Twitter get her a blue check mark once and for all the incomparable Tanya

Ray Fox is back here on Lockdown Patriots thank you for joining me today my friend Happy New Year Thank you Happy New Year to you and this is actually my first podcast of 2021 so I feel like this is actually my first podcast of 2021. So I feel like this is the perfect way to usher it in. Already off to a bit of a rocky start nationally.

So we have to do our part to try to keep things, you know, somewhat exciting and calm and fun on Fridays when we can. And I couldn't think of someone I'd rather do that with than you. Well, thank you, Tanya. And I really do appreciate that. And it does mean a lot to me. And obviously, the news that's going on throughout the country right now always takes precedence. And by no means are we trying to distract you or are we trying to downplay or lessen or trivialize what's

going on in the world right now we try to offer a respite and that respite sometimes is helpful when it comes to professional sports especially when it comes to your favorite teams and if you're a patriots fan and tuning into today's podcast we definitely appreciate it and tanya and i will do everything we can to entertain you and keep you abreast and updated on everything that's going on for your favorite football team in Foxborough. And, Tanya, as I said just a couple of minutes ago, I know my listeners are sick of hearing me say that the Pats finished with a 7-9 record, listing everyone's final stat lines. You know, bottom line, the past is the past. And the present is all about the future at this point for the New England Patriots. And that future has a lot of speculation attached to it.

And one of the biggest speculative stories that's out there in New England right now is one that I believe that kind of is a non-story, to be honest with you. And that's the possibility of the Patriots trading for quarterback Deshaun Watson. He's clearly unhappy with the Texans. Nobody's denying that. A trade demand looks likely at this point on his behalf. But as I said to open today's show, I don't mean to rain on everyone's parade, but I just don't see the Patriots having the draft capital to make this happen and still field a viable team. In a way, it would essentially be selling your future for what is at best an uncertain present.

No one's questioning the prowess or the talent of Deshaun Watson, one of the best players in the league, but if you can't feel the competitive team around him, why would you make a move like this? Tanya, am I being overly pessimistic here? What's your opinion on Watson's NFL future? And is there a chance he might end up in New England? I think I tend to more agree with you.

I'm a little less pessimistic in a broader sense. I think that Deshaun Watson landing with the Patriots would be, like you said, logistically really difficult. It's less about the idea of it being crazy and more about how, like let's think about this and how they could actually make that work. If that were the case, I believe that if there were a viable way to get to Sean Watson on the team that Bill Belichick would do it. I don't think that this is a, I don't think he's under, I don't think that he's trying to

approach quarterback and quarterback contracts and things exactly the same way he did with brady he's flexible on that front um but like you said where do you get the pieces and if this was the old texans then i would i would almost wonder if belichick could maybe fleece them and get Deshaun Watson out of the deal. But they just got Nick Casario. And I'm not sure the whole point of getting Nick Casario is that you get fleeced by Bill Belichick for Deshaun Watson. Like, that's kind of the whole point of bringing Nick in. And then if you do hire Nick Casario, isn't part of that, you know, move. Nick's job starts to become how do we keep Deshaun?

Like, how do we backtrack? How do we cool things down and get him to re, you know, commit to the Texans? Like, how do we convince him that we can turn this thing around? So I don't think they're going to let up Deshaun Watson go without a fight. That's really, I mean, that would be a massive, that would be one of the biggest mistakes we've ever seen an NFL team make, is to let Deshaun Watson leave without putting up a massive fight. And this is early. The postseason's not even over.

Like, they have time to repair this relationship, and that's what they need to do. So if it goes badly enough that Deshaun Watson says he refuses to play for the Texans, then we're in uncharted territory. Because then his, you know, then the other teams trading for him have the leverage and then all of a sudden the texans aren't able to get back what they necessarily should for the player because everybody knows the player won't play for them but we're not there yet so in the current situation we're at it's hard to envision the patriots specifically having enough to get him um but in a world in which deshaun Watson refuses to play for the Texans,

I think anything's on the table. It's just that that is, you know, that seems to be the – I almost – that's the thing I can't imagine more than anything is an NFL team letting somebody who is as – essentially as talented as Patrick Mahomes just walk away. That's, that's, I've never seen anything like that. I can't comprehend. I can't, I can't even imagine the tweet thread that I would go on if they let that

happen. I can't, my brain just truly, even with the Texans, even as ridiculous as they are, I don't know how you let that happen. And just you're just like refresh, like you're just going to restart. They don't have a great like it's not like they have a high draft pick. And it's just not I think that we're getting ahead of ourselves with the trade demands. I agree with you. And I think in a lot of ways it's a sexy story there's no question about it you know everybody loves to think about who might be the new signal caller in New England you see on Twitter all the time and on social media the mock-ups of Deshaun Watson wearing

the Patriots jersey and you know they look good they look interesting you know definitely it's eye-catching it'll get you uh you know the the looks and the clicks that you're looking for and the likes but at the same time you look at what it's going to cost to be able to acquire him. They could command multiple first-round picks. More than two, I believe, would be what it takes to get this taken care of. You see guys like Jamal Adams, Jalen Ramsey, Khalil Mack, even Laramie Tunsell. Believe it or not, Jay Cutler back in the day, are the players that have gone for multiple, meaning two first-round picks. You have to think that Deshaun Watson would command more than that,

and you have to think that Nick Asario is going to be a lot more savvy in terms of being able to get that type of haul back for him, or at least those would be the starting point of the negotiation. I agree with you. We haven't really reached the point of no return yet when it comes to Deshaun. He hasn't demanded a trade yet, and he hasn't said that he is absolutely refusing to play for the Texans. So there is still a little bit of play there. Can that relationship be repaired? We'll find out in the coming days and weeks, but until it does right now, I think it's more wishful thinking than anything, but I'm glad that you at least, you

know, put a little bit more optimism because I was a little pessimistic to open the show today. And I'm glad that you gave our listeners at least a little bit of that Lloyd Christmas. So you're telling me there's a chance type thing. I think they needed to hear that. Tanya staying on the offensive side of the ball for the Patriots and whether it's Deshaun or whether it's another quarterback, one return or one name that the Patriots may not have expected to stay in New England, but the more I'm hearing from Foxborough, it looks like more and more likely is that Josh McDaniels is likely to return as offensive coordinator. He's not really garnering

the type of attention that many people had expected him to with the teams that have head coaching vacancies, most notably the Houston Texans. John McClain of the Houston Chronicle said basically flat out that Josh is not going to be a candidate for their head coaching position. And the five other teams that are looking for coaches as well have not chosen to interview him in the first round. That's the New York Jets, the Jaguars, the Chargers, the Lions, and the Falcons. They all prefer to look at other candidates first. And I recognize things can change very quickly, especially at this time of year.

But all signs are right now pointing towards him not leaving New England. And here on Locked On Patriots, I've been critical of Josh's play calling at times, but he is a solid coordinator and he has been for many years here in New England. I think this could end up being a double-edged sword for the Pats. If Josh stays, it would definitely provide stability for a club that is facing an uncertain future on the offensive side of the ball, especially a quarterback with Cam Newton scheduled to enter unrestricted free agency. A lot of rumors and most of those indicate that the Patriots and Cam are headed toward a split. But having some stability on the sidelines could make a potential transition away from Cam a little bit easier.

Or if they do decide to bring him back, it could help him get a little more comfortable in his second year in New England. Of course, the flip side to that is that for a large chunk of the season, Cam just didn't seem to look comfortable in New England's offense. And some of that was because I think McDaniel's play calling didn't really cater to Cam's strengths. Do you think that Josh's return means that Cam is gone for sure? Or if this does indeed happen and McDaniels does essentially stay and the Patriots make it official or as official as they

will do you think that means Cam is gone for good and overall do you think that it's in the pace the Patriots best interest for Josh to remain here in New England at least in the short term? I think as it relates to Cam Newton and, you know, from there, by extension, whatever quarterback they bring in, keeping Josh McDaniels is always going to – there's a ceiling to that, right? Like, it's – you're going to get good, play calling with some like creative stuff that he's able to pull out and close games there's like he's so he's solid you know you and i both feel the same way about mick daniels like there's there was an obvious lack of creativity with cam newton he did not he clearly needed more time to figure out what he was capable of doing with Cam. He really is so, so far from what Brady was for so long. I understand. I almost it's it was frustrating to watch. But with the lack of personnel that they had in terms of, you know, receiving weapons and things like that, I just and the rotating that they had to do sometimes on the offensive line, I could see where Josh a lot

of times was just looking to keep things steady. And I found it frustrating. But realistically, the ceiling for this offense was, I mean, they pretty much hit it. Like it's not, there wasn't a lot left on the table. It was just hard to watch because there are talented players there who are capable of more, and they just didn't have all the pieces. So if Josh McDaniels does come back, I don't think that means Cam's gone. If anything, I genuinely think that, you know, Cam, first of all,

he's gone through some pretty horrible offensive coordinators and some good ones. He knows when he sees somebody who understands football and i think that i mean from everything i can tell he has a good relationship with the patriots coaching staff he respects the way that they do things there he feels comfortable in that situation you know all of his uncomfortabilities with being in new england had to do with being away from his family other than than that, he seemed to do well with it. So I don't, you know, I know that there's, he's still looking to see if there's a starting job for him somewhere in the league.

And I don't blame him one bit. He should absolutely be looking out for that. You never know what's going to go on in this league and he should, he should absolutely have his options open. But I, I see no reason. There's a, there's a world in which he comes back and he either competes for the starting job with somebody else who comes in a rookie or where he they sign

into another one-year deal he has a whole pre-season and you know off-season to get himself together with josh and i to me that's the only way you keep. I don't know that you bring in a brand new offensive coordinator, and you have Cam, and you draft a bunch of new players, and you try to buy some new, like, you know, I mean, they've got to bring in some wide receivers. Like, I've said on Twitter, I think that they need to buy their wide receivers. I don't think they should draft them anymore.

It doesn't work. It's okay. They draft every other position. Great. Just go buy your wide receivers on the market and if they that's almost too much it's just too much too many moving cards unless you're doing a full rebuild so to me that like keeping josh is for right now probably good if you're not doing a full rebuild if If Bill wants to start from scratch,

I think you and I would both agree it's time to get a little more innovative and creative at the offensive coordinator position. Yeah, I would agree with you 100%. And we usually do agree, so I'm not shocked by that at all. But at the same time, I think it's going to be interesting to see how this move or how either Josh's decision to stay put or maybe who knows. I mean, it's not a foregone conclusion that he's coming back either. This is speculative at this point. We don't know. It hasn't been made official by the Patriots that he's not going to seek or official from Josh, I should say,

that he's not going to seek a head coaching position or that he still may not be considered by one of these teams that has a job opening. But if he does, in fact, come back, then I think you're right. That does signify that the Patriots are looking to reload more than they are a tear down and rebuild. And at that point, if they're looking to reload, then how do they reload? Maybe your best option at quarterback is someone that's relatively familiar with this system that knows what this team does. And maybe with a full year of OTAs, mini camp, preseason, preseason games, all these types of things may help Cam Newton to get more acclimated into the system. And I've said that a couple of times here this week too. You know, I'm sure the rolling of

the eyes of some of the fan base and to the delight of some of them as well. I think this is going to be an interesting offseason for the Patriots and how they approach a lot of what the holes that they have is going to determine what this type of rebuild is going to look like in Foxborough. And speaking of that, Tanya, we're going to continue to talk about that rebuild in Foxborough because the Patriots have, count them, 34 free agents potentially on the roster this year. That could mean a lot of turnover in New England.

How will the Patriots handle that? And Tanya Rae Fox and I will also talk about wildcard weekend coming up, which matchups intrigue her the most, and why neither of us are looking forward to a full weekend of Brady versus Bill. That and more when the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. why neither of us are looking forward to a full weekend of Brady versus Bill. That and more when the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. Locked On listeners, are we ready for some football? Of course we're ready for some football.

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from the Action Network. Get your full weekend preview and Sunday six-pack of winning bets every Friday on Locked On NFL. Subscribe to Locked On NFL wherever you get your podcasts. Pats fans, I'm honored as always to be joined by my friend Tanya Rae Fox of FS1 and the Almost Shameless podcast.

And Tanya, we've talked a little bit about Patriots quarterbacks. We've talked about the potential of Deshaun Watson and prying him away. What the return of Josh McDaniels may mean for Cam Newton or any other quarterback coming in. But the Patriots are heading into an offseason that could see some major turnover uh this team will step on the field to kick off the 2021 campaign in eight months and it could look drastically different from the one that played against the new york jets just this past week 34 members of the pats right now are about to enter free agency once the new nfl league year begins on march 17th 27 of those are unrestricted free agents.

There's a lot of big names on this list, Tanya. And it includes all three phases of the game. David Andrews, Cam Newton, Joe Tooney, James White, Lawrence guy,

Adam Butler, just to name a few putting on your infinite wisdom. And you're the Pat's GM. I'm going to allow you to play Pat's GM this morning. Are you prioritizing offense or defense when it comes to the Patriots free agents, internal free agents, that means trying to retain your own talent. And is there anybody right now that you see on this list, one or maybe even two players that are must re-signs that the Patriots just absolutely cannot let walk away. Yeah, I mean, listen, I know you want me to choose offense or defense,

and I am going to buck against that because I do think the couple are on either side of the ball. I really think that one person that they need to retain is Lawrence Guy. They've had a lot of turnover at that position. They have young players who are coming up. And, like, it's just hard. The defensive line is hard. And the way that Lawrence Guy can play on the line and then also at linebacker, like, to me, he's a really important guy for the locker room

and also for just in general like he is one of their most reliable defenders over the last couple of years as the line and the linebackers have rotated out you know the big edge rushers they all go you know and the van noise and the tray flowers and they all go but Lawrence Guy has been a really steady presence there and he's only 30 um so he has a few more years in him of being able to play at a high level if he doesn't get injured I I want a little bit of structure at the linebacker and defensive line positions I want to see less turnover there I want them to commit to their veterans and guys who will be able to burn up because that was the structure that they created um you know in the early dynasty and but also during the

times when they weren't winning super bowls where you were seeing like some of you were seeing like that core really come together I liked the way that those defenses looked and I think that they you know I just I know we've put a lot of, a lot of our time and energy into the secondary. I think that's such a, like, they're so, Philadelphia is so good at replenishing those positions, safety and cornerback. He's so good at detecting league, league-wide talent at that position that I think he's almost swung too far he needs to swing back toward you know because he he really is he was an innovator uh when it came to how to use linebackers and going away from the four three early before other people were he understands those positions really well but because of the way that the offense has changed across the league and it's so pass heavy i feel like he's you know the secondary has gotten a lot

of his attention they're good i am not worried about the patriots ability to put together a secondary and a set of defensive backs that can go out there and compete against anybody in the league i want them to focus there and that starts with with Lawrence Scott. On the other side of the ball, it's, you know, I think they can pay Lawrence. I think they can pay Joe Tooney and David Andrews. I don't – they're not that expensive. I mean, David Andrews is a center. They don't get, like, crazy contracts. And for – what is Tooney – what is the market value, like $13 million a year, something like that?

Yeah, approximately. I mean, to me, it's a no-brainer. There are a few guys that they've gone out and paid in the past where it's been like, wow, I can't believe Belichick paid them. One of them being Logan Mankins, Vince Wilfork. A couple guys where it's just like, they're an anchor of a unit that you really need. And I have no problem with them both getting paid and david andrews is going to come at a at a discount because he's got these health

issues so i just i have no problem with seeing that happen i mean i you know for emotional reasons i can't imagine james white not being aot um but he's also the kind of player that Bill Belichick doesn't usually like prioritize so to me James White is more valuable on the Patriots than he is to other players I mean other other teams I don't see other teams I almost think that he would actually get paid more by the Patriots than he would somewhere else uh just because of the way he plays and his skill set and his importance to their their offense specifically so that's you know I want to see him come back but I don't think that they can make that a priority like he's he's cheap enough um but those are the guys those three guys that

I mentioned Lawrence guy and I mean they're obvious Joe Tooney and David Andrews I just start so that's where you always need to start especially because as I said before I don't think they should be I don't I don't think you know there's there's no one there wide receiver wise or tight end wise that I'm like tied to emotionally so shore up your lines and then work your way out you know that's start on the inside then work your way out. Start on the inside and work your way out. Absolutely. First of all, Lawrence Guy is definitely at the top of my list, so we're like-minded there,

especially when you look at the struggles that the Patriots had stopping the run down the stretch as they headed toward the end of the season. You put a guy like Lawrence Guy in the interior of that defensive line, he is so adept at being able not only to stop the run, but also facilitate pass defense. Players like that are so versatile and they're so difficult to duplicate. I love the fact that they look to be prioritizing trying to bring him back, at least from what I'm hearing, and that's a signing that I would definitely welcome. So Lawrence Guy we are in complete agreement with.

When it comes to the offensive line, I agree with you. I think David Andrews with some of the issues that he's had, I think he's a solid Patriot at this point, and I look for him to make his return, and I think he'll be back in New England this coming season. Tooney is interesting to me. I agree with you. I think it's affordable, and I think it's feasible for them to keep him on staff.

The question is if he gets to unrestricted pre-agency and the Patriots don't work something out with him early on, is this a situation where he's just absolutely bowled over by a team that offers something and the Patriots are just simply not willing to match? If that's the case, then I think Joe Tooney will get paid. If not, then I think the Patriots can come in with an offer in market value. And if they can stay competitive, I think Joe likes If not, then I think the Patriots can come in with an offer in market value. And if they can stay competitive, I think Joe likes it here. And I think he might be willing to listen. So who knows? That might be a possibility. I'm a little more optimistic about Joe hanging around over the course of the last few days than I was a couple of weeks ago.

I would have thought he was definitely gone, but we'll see what happens there. And James White, I agree with you. I can't picture him in any other uniform, but the market may end up dictating where he's going to be able to sign. If the team wants a veteran leader, someone that is proven as a great locker room presence and also one of the best receiving backs in the league, they might be willing to prioritize him as well. And if that's the case, the Patriots may be on the outside looking in. So my friend, it's always, always great

to talk future Patriots football with you. But we find ourselves heading into this weekend, like I said, to open up your segment here today on Locked On Patriots, about to watch wildcard round football without the New England Patriots either playing or being a factor. And that hasn't happened in quite a long time.

We're either watching the Patriots or, most notably, we were usually watching wildcard week in the divisional rounds coming up. One of those teams that's playing this weekend is a team that's going to have a lot of eyes of Patriots Nation fixated on it. And that's the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. And we all know why. Tom Brady, Rob Gronkowski. And seeing what the Patriots South might be able to do with he and... But it also brings the resurgence of, I think, one of the more pedestrian sports debates in the league right now.

And that is, who is more responsible for the Patriots dynasty? Is it Brady? Is it Bill? Brady's still playing. Bill's not playing. That means Brady is greater than Belichick. And I swear, Tanya, if I see one more less than or greater than sign plastered all over Twitter when it comes to these two, I might smash my screen. I know you're as frustrated with this debate as I am.

So before we close it out today, I wanted to give you the floor to explain to our listeners what I've been trying to explain as well, why this back and forth between who's better, Brady or Belichick, who's more responsible, is really kind of a moot argument that really is just more fodder for ratings or clicks, is the best way that I can put it. And I'm trying to be as diplomatic as I possibly can. Help to educate my listening base on your feelings on this subject and why this is kind of a debate that really is not one, is the best way for me to put it. Sure. So when it comes to dynasties, people have been, I mean, let's be honest, people have been having the Belichick-Brady argument for a while, and it's always been disingenuous. So it's been, this has been going on for a while, the idea that, like, one is more responsible than the other,

because people can't wrap their brains around the idea that the greatest coach of all time just happened to land the greatest quarterback of all time everybody has a heart people have a hard time believing that that could happen so one of them has to be the real goat and the other one has to just be like a highly talented beneficiary right and you know unfortunately we're never going to have an answer to the question whether of what Belichick would have been without Brady and vice versa um I I think that so dynasties are created with a coach and a star that's how this works it works across all sports there are no dynasties without the coach and the star. They don't exist. That's not a thing.

There is no one coach. There is no – even Phil Jackson had to have his star. Even his stars had to have Phil Jackson. You know what I mean? To create these long dynasties and these five, six-win teams, that's how this works. So there's that. There's also the fact that you can't compare quarterbacking to coaching. You know, the Patriots were a team on the, on the decline last year. We saw that we all watched it.

Tom Brady left a declining Patriots team to go to a Tampa Bay team stacked with all pro and pro ball talent on the verge of a playoff so that he could be the missing piece he was the missing piece to a playoff team he picked that team for that reason so the idea that he has like it's like oh my god he made the playoffs in the bell and Belichick did and it's like yeah if Belichick had gone and coached that team without Tom Brady, they'd be in the playoffs, too. Like, I don't – this is – the whole thing was that that team was, like, one piece away from making the playoffs last year. Tom Brady should have been different. The Patriots got a little worse. They lost the greatest quarterback of all of all time

but this is not a situation where Belichick had all of the equal pieces that Brady had and they both somehow failed and even if they or succeeded or whatever and even if they had Belichick's role as a coach is always, no matter what, is always going to be broader and harder to define. Like his success is going to have to be in all these different areas versus Brady's having to be on the field, where he's been given a pretty clear set of this is how you succeed, right? You succeed on the field, statistically lead the team to the playoffs and we'll see where we go from there. I mean, I don't, there's not a, it's not a very easy way to make this clear to people if they don't already understand it. But I don't think, you know, the thing I always tell people is I don't think anybody believes in their heart

that without Brady Belichick would never have won more Super Bowls and I think that the reverse is true most people don't believe that Brady couldn't have won without Belichick right they believe let's say you know Belichick had had a different quarterback I think he still wins a few Super Bowls and I think if Brady had a different coach he still wins a few Super Bowls. The question is, without each other, do they go to nine and win six in 18 years? Does Brady go to nine Super Bowls with another coach in this league? Any coach. Pete Carroll, Andy Reid, anyone you want. Does he go to

nine Super Bowls in 18 years? No! Of course he doesn't. You know it, I know it, like whatever God you believe in knows it. That's not a question. And the reverse is obviously true. If Belichick doesn't have Brady, he does not get to nine Super Bowls.

We know that. This is a, but like the facts that they, what they created was together. We can never fully extricate themselves from, from each other. Their, their legacies are completely intertwined. Who Brady is as a quarterback right now, the quarterback that threw 40 touchdowns at the age of 43, that quarterback is a product of 20 years with Bill Belichick and Bill

Belichick, the coach right now that has become the, the kind of game builder that he has become, the guy who can recognize the talent that he can recognize, the guy who can do basically anything he wants on any side of the ball. He was allowed to become that coach because he had the greatest quarterback of all time. And he became that because of Brady. We can't separate them. And trying to is diminishing the greatest dynasty we've ever watched in professional sports. And if you want to do that because you hate the Patriots, that's on you. But to me, as a sports fan, being able to watch that

and being able to see it for what it is, that means more to me than a team. It's the same reason that I love watching LeBron James play basketball. being able to see it for what it is, is that means more to me than a team. It's the same reason that I love LeBron, watching LeBron James play basketball. He's never played for a team I like. He's mostly played for teams that my favorite team despises, but I will never root against what I've watched him do. I will never try to diminish what I've watched him do because I love sports.

And that's how I feel about this conversation. Eloquently said. And you know what? I really, I agree with you a hundred percent and I'm going to let that sit because that was, that was perfectly said. And, uh, I think in a lot of ways it is an argument that, you know, it's maybe it's fun for a little while, but in terms of what the substance is behind it, not too much. And I think you've basically outlined exactly why having one, having the other, these two were so much better together

than they will be apart. And we may never see the likes of that again in any type of professional sport, let alone the NFL. Real quickly here before I let you go, my friend, wildcard weekend. What matchups do you have your eye on

this weekend? And any bold predictions that you want to leave us with as we head into a wild card weekend? My, my, I think the best game of the week is going to be Brown Steelers because of the situation, the division rivals, the fact that the Browns are working with what they're working with. I think they're an emotional team that has a lot to feed off of.

The Steelers have a lot to prove. That's a huge game. I think that's going to be the game I'm most probably excited to watch. I like a messy AFC North game. I love a messy AFC North playoff game. I think that the Washington football team is going to be a much more interesting matchup for the Bucs than people think. I still think the Bucs are going to win that game. But I'm looking forward to seeing those two defensive units kind of do what they do.

So, you know, I love a couple of good defenses and 2020 2021 you know nice to see units that are like really have some stars and chase young is awesome so you know looking forward to that i think ram seahawks you got if you don't think that's a three point game if you're betting that that you know take the under that game is going to come down to the wire. I don't care who's playing quarterback. I don't know what's going to happen. Those NFC West games are always absolutely insane. And it's going to come down. I mean, if it goes to OT, no one will be surprised.

So those are my three, those are the three teams, games that I'm like most looking forward to. I think the toughest game will be Ravens Titans. I think whoever wins that game is Ravens-Titans. I think whoever wins that game is going to come out looking like a real beast and probably scare the Chiefs a little bit. Yeah, without question. Ravens-Titans definitely an under-the-radar,

maybe not getting a lot of the hype that some of these other matchups are getting on a national level. But that Tennessee offense with Derrick Henry is going to be amazing to watch. And Baltimore has been playing at another level lately when it comes to offensive football. So that should be an interesting one. Of course, the Colts and the bills to open everything up on Saturday as well.

Can the Buffalo bills, can the Buffalo bills live up to the hype that they have been, you know, put with when it comes to getting the number two seed. And this team has been clicking on all cylinders, the defense getting healthy right away. Awesome wildcard weekend coming up. And I think this is going to be a fun weekend of football. And I'm glad that you mentioned the Washington football team defense.

Folks, there's no one that has a lot more respect or love for Tom than myself and even Tanya. We love what he did here in New England. But that type of defensive front is the type that gives Tom Brady difficulty. That defensive line that can bring pressure on the passer from all angles of that front seven. So that'll be an interesting one to watch. I'm looking forward to being able to watch and cover football without a rooting or any type of journalistic interest. I can really take a look at the games this weekend. And, you know, maybe it's a blessing in disguise.

But, my friend, what can I say? Thank you so much for taking the time out of your Friday morning to join me here on Locked on Patriots. Again, folks, it's the weekend. It's the perfect time. Hashtag verify TRF. Get it going. Get it viral.

It needs to happen. It's the right and just thing for sports media. But all kidding aside my friend please let our listeners know what they can expect from your great work within the coming days and weeks uh here coming up throughout as we start off 2021 yeah so i will i'm um boosting up uh content going out on instagram both on my regular page and my Shameless TRF page. It's going to be doing a lot of playoff content video-wise. There's going to be playoff podcasts. So after each round, we're doing podcasts for that. So that'll be on the Shameless TRF Twitter

page, Shameless TRF on Instagram. And obviously, you guys know at Tanya Rafef on instagram and obviously you guys know at tanya ray fox on twitter and instagram as well and before i go i'm just gonna say we didn't talk about him during this conversation but shout out to underrated patriots mvp nick folk what a season for my guy big kick nick i just you know i just wanted to say that I didn't get to talk about him at all last season, you know, during the season, because no one talks about like, you know, a kicker in a seven, nine season, but you know what? Bring back Nate. That's it. That's all I got. Honestly, he will not get an argument from me. Nick more than proved himself this year. I really think he was one of their more consistent offensive players.

You can make the argument. He may have been their most consistent offensive player this year. You know, let's say for Jake Bailey, who had a tremendous season. But, you know, you look at what Nick Folk was able to do in a season where most people didn't think he would be back as the kicker. A lot of questions about his distance, his accuracy. He did it and he did it well this year. So they want to bring back Nick Folk. I am all for it. I would love to see him taking taking kicks into did it well this year. So if you want to bring back Nick Folk, I am all for it. I would love to see him taking kicks in New England again this year.

And I'm glad that you end on a positive note and on a good note for the New England Patriots. Stay safe and well, my friend, as always. Thank you for joining us, and we look forward to having you back here real soon on Locked On Patriots. And so, Patriots fans, we put a bow on the week that was here on the Locked On Patriots podcast. And while early January still feels a little early to be talking about the end of Patriots football for the year, starting right here once again on Monday, we'll continue to bring you the latest news, notes, and analysis from Foxborough. And as always, I'll be joined by some very special guests to help me do so along the way.

So to ensure that you do not miss a single second of the action, download and subscribe to the Locked On Patriots podcast on platforms such as Spotify, Stitcher, Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, wherever you get your podcasts. Just make sure that you're staying locked in to Locked On Patriots. Once again, my name is Mike DeBate. I thank Tanya Rae Fox for her time, her insight, and her appearance on today's pod, but most of all, I thank you so much for listening and for continuing to make Locked On Patriots

a daily part of your New England Patriots coverage. Until Monday, folks, stay safe, stay well, be the change you wish to see in the world. Have a great weekend, everyone.