Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - Football in Foxboro - 101: Matt Chatham talks 2020 and the New England Patriots - 9/4/2020

Episode Date: September 4, 2020

Although it is officially unofficial, Cam Newton (by all accounts) will be the New England Patriots’ starting quarterback in 2020. Over the weekend, we will learn the identities of the 52 remaining members of the team that will join him on the initial roster for the upcoming 2020 season. Joining host Mike D’Abate is former New England Patriots’ linebacker, and current NESN analyst, Matt Chatham. The duo discuss the importance of learning both the playbook, and game plan, in a Bill Belichick-coached system, how Cam will assimilate into the Patriots’ offensive strategy and the potential offensive and defensive standouts this year in New England. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You are Locked On Patriots, your daily New England Patriots podcast. Part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. Hello to all of you Foxborough faithful. It is Friday and you are now locked into the Locked On Patriots podcast, your daily home for news notes and analysis, infused with the occasional opinion on your six-time Super Bowl champions, the New England Patriots. Today's episode is brought to you by Built Bar. Go to builtbar.com and use promo code LOCKEDON to get $10 off your first order.

Greetings and salutations, Patriots Nation. And thank you for joining me to close out the week here on the pod. My name is Mike DeBate, your host of the Locked On Patriots podcast, which of course is a proud part of the Locked On Podcast Network, your team every day. And that means that your questions, comments, and feedback are always welcomed and greatly appreciated. Feel free to share that feedback anytime by reaching out to me and following me on Twitter at M-D-A-B-A-T-E-F-P-C.

And while you're out there giving that weekend nod and saying how you doing to the Twitterverse, please be sure to follow the Locked On Patriots account as well at L-O underscore Patriots. Folks, we're closing out the week here on Locked On Patriots in a big way. Class is in session and the professor is here. And I'll get to that in just a moment. But you may have noticed that today's episode had a little bit of a new feel to it.

A new show introduction, new theme music, all courtesy of our great production team here at the Locked On Podcast Network. And what better day to debut that new introduction than on a Friday, heading into a holiday weekend. And I'm about to share the microphone with a man who spent six seasons here playing for your New England Patriots, both at linebacker and on special teams, and is a former three-time Super Bowl champion. You know his great work from Nesson, and there is a part of him that will forever be number 58 in Foxborough. The professor himself, Matt Chatham, joins me here on the hot seat today.

And seeing that this Saturday, September 5th at 4 p.m. Eastern, is the deadline for all 32 NFL teams to reduce their roster sizes to 53, Matt will lend insight as only he can on exactly what we might expect to see from the Patriots this year on the field. Have the Patriots rookies learned enough in a short period of time to be prolific on the field this season? Why is it important for NFL fans, analysts, and even the players on the field to remember that there's a difference between learning the playbook and learning the game plan? And of course, Matt will give insight as only a former player can, folks,

on what he expects to see from certain members of your 2020 New England Patriots. Folks, as I am each and every time he joins me here on the pod, I am honored to welcome Matt back to the Locked On Patriots podcast today. His analysis in this area is second to none. After all, he's played for Bill Belichick, won three Super Bowl titles while with the Patriots, and his notes, analysis, and opinion will provide a great precursor for the roster news that is scheduled to hit this weekend.

And folks, don't forget, the Locked On Patriots Twitter account, as will my personal Twitter account, will have you covered on the latest Patriots roster news on Saturday and on Sunday as the Patriots complete their initial 53-man roster cut down and begin to assemble the team they feel will give them the best chance to compete for a division title, a conference title, and dare I say, folks, maybe even a Super Bowl title. And on Thursday, albeit unofficial, Patriots took a major step forward in that process. As first reported by Jim McBride of the Boston Globe, the New England Patriots unofficially confirmed that Cam Newton would be the team's starting quarterback for the upcoming 2020 NFL season.

And I say unofficial because Bill Belichick was noncommittal when asked specifically about that on Friday morning, but according to Jim's report, he apparently informed the team of the decision during a team meeting on Thursday morning. Now, it's been quite the rollercoaster ride when it comes to the Patriots and Cam Newton, folks. That one-year incentive-laden contract that Cam signed became official on July 8th, and he arrived in New England with a lot of pedigree and a lot of hoopla, and that's completely understandable. We're talking about a former league MVP in 2015, led his team to the Super Bowl, one of the most exciting athletes on an NFL football field. But he also arrived with

some questions as well. Two things that didn't need to be questioned were his undeniable talent on the field and his character as a teammate and in the community. Cam has an impeccable reputation on both. But there were some questions about his health. I had those questions, I'll be very honest with you folks. And there was also questions about whether or not he would, quote unquote, mesh with Bill Belichick's personality. Well since his arrival and throughout training camp

Cam quickly cooled any doubts about his ability to play at a high level. The shoulder and foot injuries that have plagued him over the past couple of years don't seem to be a factor anymore folks. Cam's been out there practicing only missed one practice for what the team has dubbed personal reasons but he's looked good in his movements, and apparently the Patriots are confident enough to hand the keys to the kingdom over to Cam Newton right now. As far as his prowess on the field and picking up the Patriots offense, it doesn't look like Cam Newton has really missed a beat there as well. He's developed nicely over the course of training camp while competing against guys like Jarrett Stidham and Brian Hoyer. Make no mistake about it, folks.

Cam Newton went out and won this starting job. I heard some social media smatterings last night and into this morning that Cam may have gotten the job by default because Jarrett is injured. That's not the case. Jarrett might not be 100%. He might be a little hampered by a lower body injury, but ultimately, he's been out on the field taking reps, taking snaps, making throws, and he really doesn't look to be debilitated by this injury. So give Cam his credit. He came in here and earned the starting job in every sense of the word. And with the knowledge, again, folks,

unconfirmed by the team, but unofficially confirmed by pretty much everyone else, Newton is going to be the starter, and the Patriots can now begin preparation in Ernst for their season opener against the Miami Dolphins Sunday, September 13th at Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, Massachusetts. But the accolades for Cam weren't exactly through on Thursday, as once again first reported by Jim McBride of the Boston Globe, the New England Patriots named their eight team captains for the upcoming 2020 season. And surprise, surprise, folks, Cam Newton was among them. And don't forget, the team captains are voted in by the team. They're selected by his teammates, so that

shows a lot of confidence in Cam Newton by the guys he's going to be playing with. Cam will be joined by fellow captains running back James White, center David Andrews, defensive tackle Lawrence Guy, linebacker Juwan Bentley, cornerback Jason McCourty, safety Devin McCourty, and special team's ace Matthew Slater. Now Devin McCourty and Matthew Slater have each been named a captain for the 10th time. That is a phenomenal honor, and I don't think anyone can doubt that these two guys are the spiritual and heart and soul leaders of this ball club this year. David Andrews earns the captainship for his fourth season, James White the third time he's been named a captain, and of course Cam Newton, Lawrence Guy, Juwan Bentley, and Jason McCourty have earned the captainship honor for the first time.

And just for anyone that thinks that these accolades may be lost on someone of Cam Newton's stature and flamboyant style, definitely not lost on him. Shortly after, he took to Instagram to pen a heartfelt message that read, Dear New England, I will not and do not take this opportunity for granted. I'm so grateful for this organization, my teammates, and this city. Thank you. No need to look back now. LFG. And of course, folks, it's a family show. I'm not going to spell out what LFG means, but you all know what it means. It means the new ton era here in New England has begun. And in just a little over a week, the 2020 incarnation of your New England Patriots will take the field in hopes of bringing some Lombardi Trophy silver back to

Foxborough. And again, folks, here today to bring invaluable insight on how the Patriots plan to do just that is former New England Patriot, three-time Super Bowl champion, and current Nessun analyst Matt Chatham. So sit back, folks, settle in, and let the professor take you to Foxborough Football 101 class here today on this Friday episode of Lockdown Patriots. But first, folks, you've heard the phrase, we've all heard the phrase, often imitated but never duplicated. We know it very well up here in New England. Six Super Bowl titles in the last 20 years.

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can tell you is Built Bar is just that good. So don't delay. Go to BuiltBar.com today and use promo code LOCKEDON to get $10 off your next order. Again, use promo code LOCKEDON for $10 off at BiltBar.com. Patriots fans, my guest today is one of the most recognizable names in Patriots Nation. As an NFL linebacker and a key special teamer, he spent the first six seasons of his career in New England, contributing to three Patriots Super Bowl victories. Currently, you know his great work for Nesson, as well as platforms such as the Athletic Boston and the Razor Show podcast. It is my honor to be joined today by three-time Super Bowl champion Matt Chatham.

Matt, welcome back to the Lockdown Patriots podcast, and thank you for joining me today. Great to be back and looking forward to this season. Let's get going. Absolutely. And it will be an interesting and a new season in New England. I've been calling it a Newton era in New England. You know, I love my play on words. I love my dad jokes, but all kidding aside, Cam Newton, by all accounts, is going to be your starting quarterback in 2020. Although I know Bill didn't want to commit to that

during this morning's press conference, but Cam was also voted yesterday as a team captain. And that's an honor that you held when with the New York Jets. And you tweeted that out earlier on on Friday. Matt, I don't think any or many out there, I should say, ever really questioned Cam's talent on the field. The questions about Cam's fit here in New England were first about his health and somewhat maybe about his personality meshing with bill belichick in the quote-unquote patriot way at least for the short term cam looks to be healthy and the patriots seem to agree his only practice absence was due to what the team dubbed his personal reasons so he's been out there practicing he's looked pretty solid in his movements as for

his personality he looks to be fitting in quite nicely. He's endearing himself to his teammates and even Bill himself, who had high praise for Cam recently and continues to do so each and every day. Matt, you played for Bill Belichick. You know as well as anyone that he will do what he feels to be best for the football team, and that's essentially why Cam Newton is here. In your assessment, what can we expect to see from Cam Newton and the Patriots this year, at least on the offensive side of the ball? Yeah, Mike, it's an interesting question, in part because it may get into a little bit, especially in this first month. I'm curious to know what sort of the conversations maybe between Josh McDaniels and Brian Flores may have been, even with Coach Belichick present, relative to Cam because they've been together on teams

where they invariably had to either play a team Cam was on or their scouting tape were, you know, a game where Cam was playing. They're watching the other side of the ball. So they've gotten to see him a lot. And a player like Cam that's so unique, some of the offenses that he's excelled in are obviously different, a little bit unusual relative to obviously what the Pats have been running. But some of those sort of staff conversations, how they, you know, because they can sit there and watch and say, you know what, this guy is really good, but I would use him X, Y or Z.

You know, I do him a little bit different or, oh, I love this concept they're using there. Maybe we can marry with what we're doing now. And, you know, it's funny just to go back to sort of old conversations between the three. And obviously there had to be an overwhelmingly positive opinion or he wouldn't be here now, but it's fun when you had those conversations, when you sort of started to strategize against the guy and now they're on opposite sides. So, you know, with Brian being down there in Miami and Josh up here now, there's going to have been a little pass between them where they've discussed in candor things that now need to be more sensitive. So I think that kind of gets into this notion of not announcing it too early.

But I think Bryant's a smart guy. He obviously understands that they go into the game with Cam as the head guy. But it's different because we didn't get to see any preseason games or any live scrimmage action where you can say, oh, there's the Cam offense. It's been a lot of just install. It's been a lot of just this is the offense. Cam is learning it, picking it up, getting the nomenclature down, getting to know his personnel, getting to know sort of waves of players

in and out of the lineup. And how does he handle that situation? how does he handle the situational stuff relative to minute and four-minute offense and sudden change and short yardage, goal line, all that kind of stuff, red zone stuff, high and low, just all the stuff that Bill wants to throw at you in a short window of time. They've gone through all that, but publicly we have not seen, hey, here are the practice plays, here's the game plan,

because that's what's different in the NFL. There's a game plan, which is a small binder, a small binder of 20, 30 pages or whatever. And the playbook is the 400, 500 page thing. And that's the thing you're working through. And Cam, it's sort of referenced in some interview this summer that, you know, this sort of high learning, high end learning kind of thing was cramming college exams kind of feel. And it was it's big stuff, but that is relative to the big playbook, not to the game plan. So the game plan isn't anything that a media member would be able to sit up

and see because now the doors close in those play-specific, concept-specific stuff for Cam that, as I mentioned, the coaches would have talked amongst each other about what they think works, what they think doesn't work, what they think there might be a vulnerability there, what they think's not necessarily been taken advantage of. Now they get to deal with themselves, and in Brian's case, face it. So it's going to be an interesting week one because I can imagine

you're going to see, you know, I'm just making the number up, but say you take the first 30 plays of the game. There's a good chance that 22, 23, 24, 25 might be at least a different built play concept than anything we've seen in just some practice out there in the sun. Yeah, and I think that's amazing insight, especially when it comes to someone that's been on the inside of those types of meetings and seen exactly what the difference is between learning the playbook and learning the Patriots schemes and then actually putting them into practice for the game plan in the individual week. And you mentioned Brian Flores.

There's definitely a synergy. There's definitely a familiarity there that he has with how Josh McDaniels calls plays in acts game plans throughout the week. And there's familiarity on the other side, too. You know, Josh is very well versed in how Brian likes to call a defense or be able to put in a game plan as well. So a lot of strategy going on this week, maybe even more so because it's Brian Flores and the Miami Dolphins coming to town in week one. Should be interesting. But we know, or at least we believe, that Cam Newton will be the guy starting under center and Matt the Patriots offense as a

whole putting Cam aside for just a moment uh continues to be maligned across a large section of the fan base but we've seen some bright spots in training camp we've seen second year players like Gunnar Oshelski and Damian Harris take pretty big steps forward from where they were last year and even emerge on a lot of people's radar as, in Karras' case, a potential starter. Now, we know the hand injury is out there lurking. We don't know the severity of that yet or what Wilhills' status will be for game one. But Gunner has made his way onto the roster projections of many beat writers, you know, within the Patriots' realm.

People like me who cover the team on a periphery, have included Gunner as well. We've seen rookies like Devin Asiasi and Dalton Keene at tight end gain some praise, even undrafted rookies like Jeff Thomas and J.J. Taylor. From what you've seen and learned from camp, and also taking into account some comments that you've made on social media for the past few days about this being a very interesting year for rookies to be able to hook on to a team because of lack of preparation time or a team's, you know, penchant for wanting to go with veterans on the 53-man roster because of familiarity with the league. Should we be paying some close attention to some of the veterans that may be available after Saturday's cut down?

Or is there enough rookie prowess here for the Patriots to roll with the young guys and maybe turn some heads? Well, Mike, I'm going to be candid here myself and just make sure any listener understands this portion of it. You know, I usually live at training camp and I call it preseason, you know, for the broadcast for years and then for radio the last couple. And then obviously we did not have training camp or excuse me preseason games this season and i this may be a detail that a listener may not pick up on but camp was massively limited this year uh as far as media credentials so for our particular organization for neson we have our one person there and they have to rotate even themselves so uh i'm an analyst i'm not i'm not a journalist a journalist. I'm not a reporter. So it was, camp was basically attended this year by reporters for each of the sort of organizations around our

market. So a guy like me, I'm an analyst and basically there's no analyst in the stand. So I did come down for practice for one day and it was just sort of a special hey drop in. We can have you today. But I have not studied these guys, so I'm a lot on the periphery like yourself. I'm anxious to sort of see how this all shakes out because I can really only speak in generalities. I mean, you know, a drill more than, you know, that they're willing to put up on Patriots.com or something like that, or that worker sends out. But you know, I, my,

my feeling on this relative to the snoo thing anyhow, is that it had a feeling very much like the Demarius Thomas thing. We talked about this on Nesson earlier in the week. And I felt really strongly about the camp that I thought that Thomas had had and the relationship and how Tom had spoken to us privately about how good he felt about the relationship with Thomas in a short window of time. And he loved where he was progressing. He wasn't predicting he was going to have a 12 or 1400 yard kind of season

like he had in Denver back in the day. But he's like, I like this guy. I can work with this guy. This is a really good relationship here. And then poof, it was gone. And it's like, okay, well, that was a, that was a veteran that I've spent months sort of assuming based on the conversations, based on staff comments, based on the quarterbacks and stuff, where I felt, wow, this guy is certainly a part of it.

And when you're trying to figure out the formula of what the whole group will look like, you count on that. And when you're trying to figure out the formula of what the whole group will look like, you count on that. And I would put Sanu right there with that. I love Sanu's game prior to the injury. I mean, he was a double-digit catch guy in a game prior to him blowing that ankle up. So I assume, like a lot of people did, that he's not going to be a leading receiver. We know that.

But he's a really nice complementary piece, especially because he's a catch goblin. He's not running past people. I know people keep knocking him on that. But he never was a speed guy. He's been a very, very effective guy throughout his time in the NFL. But you kind of assume Sanu was an important piece in that whole mix because if Jules gets banged up and misses a week or, you know or if the progression here with Nikhil hits a bump or two, which is still typical because he's still a young guy, you always have that guy you can turn back to,

and you might catch six or eight balls for you on a week where you just need someone to move the sticks. And I thought that part of the mix was going to be really important. Now, they've obviously gone against that, so they see something that I don't know. And I think for all the years where I might have a strong opinion one way or the other about who's able to do what and how they're going to be used, usually that's based upon watching the patterns of substitution,

watching how they really actually compete with one another once it's live bullets, the preseason games, those matter. There aren't any of that. I mean, even the simulated scrimmage stuff they did was in no pads at one point, like a virtual walkthrough kind of thing, just to show pace, not walk is the wrong word, but you're going fast, but not really touching one another. We have no idea, really, in live scenario,

who's going to be able to compete and step up on a game day because there haven't been. So to me, I know the Gunner story has been a huge one, and I've been, you know the Gunner story has been a huge one, and I've been – I've checked my Twitter feed. I've been sort of blowing that guy's horn for – even since last year and really excited about what I saw in just small snippets this year. I thought he could be a player. He reminds me body type-wise closer to Danny Amendola than Jules.

Jules and him were similar size, but Julian's a long arm, longer strider. Gunner is just more the quick and fast little, you know, I guess his limbs are more in line with what you would expect for his body type. He's not, you know, it's, again, it's more like a welker body, but I know I'm going down the list of all the guys that are white short guys. I don't mean to do that. But what's different about Julian is he does have good length, even though he's not the tallest guy.

He's got really long arms relative to his body. He's a different kind of strider. He's super quick on and out breaks, but he's really an X. He has X fluidity, yet sometimes they play him inside. He's a true all over the formation receiver. Gunner is a rabbit. He's bouncy in and out of his cuts. He explodes out of the cuts, much like you see more from slot guys. But he's not going to be able to extend on an out cut or deep comeback stuff with long reach, even with a shorter body, which reminds you more of an Amendola or a Welker. So I see Gunner as a really ascending interior player who could make Jules be more of an outside guy. He can be an off-the-ball – or excuse me, like a Z. He's still a receiver, but he's not attached to the line of scrimmage

like you'd expect your big-body guy, which will be Nikhil, presumably. So you can move Jules a lot over the formation now if you feel like your slot guy is this kind of more set dude. So I think Gunner's ascension here is a really, really big story. Now, coming back to the rest of it, though, and I know these are the kind of more set dude. So I think Gunner's ascension here is a really, really big story. Now, coming back to the rest of it, though, and I know these are the kind of things that people need to make them feel safer about the future because you just don't know. But, you know, Jacoby Myers got banged up and was not getting high rep counts.

And, you know, when he missed a little time and then you come back and, you know, I think there was one just post-injury practice where he got sent five balls caught four of them had a productive day with cam and it was kind of like there was that one day thing with jacoby but his was a name that a lot of people sort of from the reporter pools that are there threw around as oh we haven't seen a lot maybe maybe feelings on him have changed and i can't dispute that but i also wouldn't discount that their feelings may not have changed at all. And they may be really counting on him.

And he just had the injury and he had a quiet camp. But Jacoby having a big second year bump could be just as important as Gunner having one. And all of a sudden, if you've got two young guys that are a big part of this yet weren't really necessarily shown that in a camp practice, their feeling on what their core looks like might be much different than ours on the outside. So if I look at Julian still being a pretty top guy, a guy that can catch 100 balls, you know, he just – the one day I was there, I was Julian. You know, there was not a guy coming off an injury.

There was not an older guy. I looked to it. He is a top wide receiver. And Nikhil is going to win 50-50 balls. Nikhil is going to win downfield balls. He might not catch 10, right? He doesn't seem like that kind of guy, but he catches the kind of balls that Cam throws more of.

You know, Cam throws a lot of weight out the pocket, extend down the field. There are going to be tight contested plays, and Nikhil's got the best body type and best skill set on the team to win that ball. So he's just not a guy to judge through separation. That's not that body type. This is closer to old Mike Evans and the way he plays and the way he wins

than a lot of other people. So yeah, Nikhil is not going to impress people in a non-live situation because they're not going after live balls. It's just how close to someone stand to him out in the pattern, which is not how you judge a big guy. So I think I kind of went through the list there and I don't know much about Jeff Thomas other than everyone else.

I mentioned the guy has been fat. They like college and the Ross kid. And, you know, again, a lot of these are just names on pieces of paper to me. So I simply go into this thinking they're going to be a multi-back kind of situation. You may see a lot of them where James White is actually out in flux. And if you have that, you've got two, air quote, slot guys on the field potentially with Gunner and him opposite one another even together, however you want to sort of put that together. But I just don't think that I would acknowledge up front

that this doesn't jump off paper as, oh, you know, there's a 1,000-yard guy, there's an 80-catch guy, and there's going to be one that's going to catch 55 and eight touchdowns. Like, we don't know that. We really don't know that. But there was also a time where Julian Edelman came out of a training camp and was an 18 catch guy the year before. And I don't have the stats in front of me, but he exploded.

So just know that when they're ready to push the ball your way and they think you've made that jump, you can do it. And if the talent's there, Julian's shown it. Having a mild role for a couple of years prior to that has nothing to do with where they see you eventually going. So for some reason, they have a lot of faith in the group they've got. But we also have learned over the last several years that the veteran addition that you mentioned as a possibility here,

it could always be there. And it's a weird year because you just don't know that veteran name that might come available. You can kind of start to guess on those things. That's why the preseason games are another valuable tool because you can go through the first game and the second game and you get to that third or sometimes it shows up in the second and you're expecting this full half of veteran football.

And all of a sudden, a second or third receiver on another team that you're used to seeing run with the lead dogs every game gets, you know, every game gets substituted in for a young dude. And then there's whispers. And then that, you know, press bull starts whispering a little bit that they might be gone. And then all of a sudden the name's not so surprising, but we don't get any of that information this year. We don't know, you know,

what veteran guy that we're used to seeing contribute so much more as maybe had a potentially limited role because everyone's holding their cards pretty close to the vest and there hasn't been a preseason game. So I think we'll probably all be surprised with that list of three to four to five. Oh my gosh, that guy's available. Didn't expect that. Pats, go get him. And provided cost isn't an issue, maybe that happens. But I wouldn't see that addition as something that necessarily means they have less faith in Jacoby and Gunner. I think those are two fun names that can both be really good pros for a long time in the NFL. And I guess your overall opinion of the group will really swing on if Nikhil makes that big jump this year.

If he doesn't, then yeah, you may have an issue with depth there. But if he ascends and the other two are there and Jules plays like Jules, it's still a very good group. Yeah, I would agree with that. And I think a lot of what you said really hits home when it comes to what the Patriots are looking to do, especially when it comes to the wide receiver position, because we hear a lot about,

oh, well, it's going to be a lot. And I'm guilty of this as well. It's going to be a lot on Julian shoulders. They need to give him a little bit of veteran help, somebody that can help him out, maybe cultivating and mentoring these young guys. Demir Bird is does have some NFL experience, but at the same time, he doesn't have a lot of experience in New England. He's coming from Carolina and he does have some synergy with Cam, but again, a lot of people are thinking that direction. It doesn't always mean that just because the Patriots look to bring in a veteran or they look to roll with the young guys that it means that they have more confidence one way or another. A lot of times, it's about scheme, and it's about the best fit, and this year is an

interesting year as well with the expanded availability and eligibility for the practice squad, meaning the available spots that they have and also who's eligible for the practice squad. That's also something to consider this year as well. And I think you've articulated that pretty well. So, Matt, I do appreciate it because your insight and analysis in this subject, especially having been on the field, is so beneficial to our listeners. But the Pats will likely be relying on some of that youth that we hinted at on defense as well. And in just a moment, folks, Matt Chatham and I will discuss two areas on the roster with which he is quite familiar,

the linebacking core and special teams. What can we expect from this group this year in Foxborough? Find out when the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. Pats fans, former New England Patriot and current Nessun analyst Matt Chatham joins me here today on Locked On Patriots. And Matt, you might say that you have an inside knowledge of what it means to be an NFL linebacker, having done that throughout your career and played the position so well. It's always a key position for the Patriots when determining defensive schemes. And New England has suffered some losses at this position.

Kyle Van Noy, Jamie Collins, Landon Roberts, all gone. Dante Hightower opting out. But as we discussed in the previous segment with the offense, the Patriots defense does have some young players and rookies that are primed to take over and really provide this team with, I think, a good amount of prowess at the position. Josh Uche, Anthony Jennings, Cash Malawiah have gained a lot of traction as being players that have played well in this defense so far in training camp. And there's also been some players with experience, whether it be a guy like Chase Winovich who's entering his second year or guys like Dietrich Wise, John Simon, Derek Rivers that have gained a little more experience throughout the years. They're all expected to be major contributors,

maybe with the exception of Rivers, who I think is trying to play his way onto this roster. But Wise and Simon seem to be guys that are safe bets to make this team. Knowing how productive the linebackers were to the 3-4 defensive scheme that the Pats ran last year, Matt, do you believe that the Patriots have the personnel to provide us with more of the same, or will the defense have a much different look this year? Usually when I get into the conversation of 3-4-4-3, it really all starts with the nose, if you have one or not. The old Vince Wilfork thing,

or even back to my time prior to Vince and Ted Washington and Keith Traylor and all those kind of body types. And Danny Shelton's been the guy that allowed them to be that kind of team and bouncing it out of it. But Danny left and went to Detroit in free agency. And there was all this talk about Bo Allen, you know, coming up as this free agent in Tampa. It's a comparable body type. This is a true thick 320, 330, 340, whatever, the bigger than big, not just a 300-pounder.

Just 300-pounder in the NFL is sometimes big-ish, but those guys can be ends as much as they can be noses and they can truly hold a double. And because Bo's had such a light camp and basically just not been out there, you know, it really makes me not know. So now the conversation around Byron Coward, and I got to see one day of him the day I was there. I was surprised that Byron has looked a little bigger to me. You know, maybe gains 10 pounds. It's not a lot, but he's in one of those sort of body types where he could, you know, he's right around 300, you know, but again, we're not talking 3340 true nose style, but in the practice I saw, he was playing both in and out. So you'd see him sort of bounce as a

nose, maybe a shade, not necessarily right over center as a 3-4 guy would be, but he could play 4-3, one of the two interior positions, or if it's a three, four, he can play the nose, although it's not a true body type. But what I did notice is he was getting a lot of work with the ones. And he basically was the first inside big. And then your other outsides are Lawrence guy and some combination of Dietrich wise sometime as an end or they're weird. They'll often use even like John Simon or Ace as who are really outside linebackers

and let them play three, four ends and go like a lot of small balls. So you have your two true outside linebackers and one of whom is standing next to a third outside linebacker that's playing usually the weak side end. So they're different. They've always been different and the league has, obviously since my day. So 3-4 doesn't mean identically what I remember it as. So sometimes one of those ends are not necessarily a Seymour body type or Lawrence guy as it is now. It might be a smaller, you know, bounce like a Willie McGinnis type

down to one of the ends. And then you really have three linebackers that are outside body types on the field at the same time. So I don't know the 3-4-4-3 question. I would say though that the interior bigs are probably one of the biggest questions going into the year because if you were allowing Danny Shelton to go and he was a big part of what they did last year and was very effective especially against the run. Letting that type go replacing it with that type,

but then not having the type, I'm talking about Bo Allen, not really camp available, it makes you go, huh, okay. I don't see a lot of bigs here in this lineup. You know, Byron Coward is, again, a mid-sized big, if that's sort of making a term up there. But Bill Murray, the young guy, number 69, again, we don't know roster cuts here as i said here but you know that's another guy that's kind of another mid-big you know six four three hundred

kind of guy which is a pretty typical frame in the nfl but i'm just not talking about sort of like your mike daniels you know i'm not sure if mike ever signed a contract yet or or snacks harrison like that i believe he's still free agent hopefully i'm not screwing that up. But the real, real bigs that are out there either on the street or on someone else's roster, you know, as much as the conversation typically gravitates for, ooh, available receiver, ooh, available running back, I kind of wonder if there's an available big that would be enticing to the Pats that could answer some of those questions.

Because you can survive as a smaller defense. It's not that they don't have a lot of good players up front. Lawrence Guy is one of the most underrated defensive linemen in the NFL. He's really, really good. And Dietrich Wise, in the right role, can be very effective as well. He had a rough go of it in that Tennessee game where they kept double teaming him. They went right after him, right after him. And he's really more of an edge guy, but plays really good technique,

really good run defender, especially as a true five technique end. But they kept flopping and basically locating him and then putting the double on him. And, you know, he's a 275 guy. He's not a 300 guy. That's why the ends have that extra 25 pounds. But there has been a good amount of talk this camp about Dietrich getting a little bit bigger and, you know, gaining 10 more back.

But even 10 pounds isn't going to necessarily change, you know, maybe make you a little more effective. And Bill has actually crowed a little bit about that how strong he's looked and how much the weight has been a positive gain, but it's still a player type, and you can't eat your way into 330 necessarily. The fact that there isn't one of those on the roster right now, other than Bowe, who we haven't seen much of. And again, everything I'm saying is completely irrelevant.

If they walk out there on week one and with a full week here at practice, Bowe's ready to roll. And you've got yourself a true nose and you can do all the things that I'm talking about that we haven't necessarily seen. But a lot of this, as I sort of led with at the top, I think hinges on the development of Byron Cowart. And he looks like a play. But I don't know if he looks like a send over sender and get doubled each down player.

So kind of don't know that. So this is definitely going to be an eye opener for us. All the stuff we're talking about, about the uncertainty with the offense, the defense kind of hits me that way too, because there's so many young bodies over there. These can be players. Josh Uche can be a player. Anthony Jennings can be a player. He was hurt. And Jennings only was like a partial camp participant, but from at least the guys I trust, their eyeballs said he looked impressive to them. But again, that's not my

analysis. That's someone else's. But if Jennings and or Uche are real positive contributors here, and Chase Winovich, who I'm a big flag-waving fan of, I think he's set for really big things here. If you get the bump from Chase and you get full-time contribution from one of those two rookies and John Simon, who is just a quiet, steady leader type who is about to slide into an even bigger role here and really one of the more steady, if the edge is his way, the edge was set. You can kind of just count on that. I have a high respect for guys who can do that. They don't necessarily have to get a sack, but they can kill the play to their side, at least turn it into someone else. John is that kind of player, and I have a lot of respect for him. But you did mention

Cash, and you did a great job, Mike, of nailing the last name. I've screwed it up throughout this offseason. I've actually told the guys on Ness, I'm like, let's just go Cash or come up with a nickname. I can't say Mooliah. I screw it up every time.ess, I'm like, let's just go Cash or come up with a nickname. I can't say Mooliah. I screwed up every time. Well, I'm trying to get Cash Me Outside. How about that trending on Twitter and trying to become that his – not a lot of people are liking that, Matt. I'll be honest. Okay, it hasn't –

The Who Made That Man a Gunner meme kind of put me on the map a little bit last year with Locked On. People seem to like that. Spaceballs is popular. But, yeah, the Cash Me Outside is not really all that great. If that helps you, you can go ahead and use it, but if not, I completely understand. I will not take that as a personal attack. Mel O'Wyer,

it's not the easiest in the world to pronounce. It really is, but he was, again, I hope to not be overblowing in opinion based off one day, because I would be the first person to make fun of someone else who would do that. I just remember his tape from Wyoming, the portion I saw. You only get 20-25 played, that kind of thing. I watched some cash coming out of Wyoming and I was like, oh, that's a type. This is a squadier,

thicker hitter, tackle to tackle, runs the box, real great instinct, no false steps, good tackler inside the numbers kind of thing. He's not going to test well, so he'll fall down your boards. And he doesn't have the super imposing NFL body type, but watch him hit, watch him do nine and seven drills, watch him do sort of any kind of the inside the box stuff, read pullers, go with the sort of cues from fullbacks. He'll be the first step to the first step to the whole kind of guy. And Cash was really impressive to me. And just that one day I saw him,

I read about him. I'd seen, like I said, again, sort of the limited amount of video and, and then I like, okay, I'm going to spend a few periods on just this guy that I can play. So he's going to be in my view. And again, the camp is super basic. You know. The front's pretty simple. Once things get a little more complex, sometimes guys like that fall behind in a role, and they play backup and play special teams throughout the year and may not see much of him at linebacker. But he reminded me a lot of sort of young Landon Roberts. Landon was very much that way.

You'd see a guy that had had a billion tackles at Houston, and he just was a point-of-attack guy. He's going to come downhill in a hurry. He's going to make a hole, or at least a pile. He looks comfortable. He looks like a guy you've seen just taking a lot of snaps at football, regardless of what level. They've just got that first-step quickness. He's not a great athlete, and that's okay. As not a great athlete myself, I can pinpoint that pretty easily. He's not going to go run a 4-5. He's not going to run with your fastest tight ends up the seam. He's not going to match with quicker backs necessarily. But he's got some real good box ability to read deep blocks.

He's a good player. He's an older school linebacker, but he is a little bit on the shorter side. So I think Cash is something there. And we should mention this. I went on and on about the defense. I didn't mention Juwan Bentley was named a captain, which I thought was a really, really interesting move because, again, I think I wrote on him at The Athletic two years ago after watching his

preseason games and then maybe I think it was after week one. And he really played well. Okay, that's a guy, again, a lot of Big Ten snaps, interior box player. You can just see guys that don't false step, guys that don't run themselves out of place. If it's whatever scheme directly at them or whatever scheme away from them, they're kind of doing the right thing. There's a lot of different kind of players around the NFL,

and there's a lot of different linebackers. There are others that are more of a 50-50. Sometimes they get it, sometimes they don't, and they run around blocks. I take both Bentley and Cash as guys who are more of the type, you know, maybe Brandon Spikes-ish or Gerard Mayo-ish. Gerard's a better athlete than those guys. But I'm saying that usually makes the right first step, usually is coming downhill.

He's not being faked out by some sort of play-action element and blowing something. So they've got two steady eddies, I think, there on the inside. But you did mention the attrition, and that doesn't mean all those things I said, complimentary things I said, doesn't necessarily have anything to do with not having a Jamie Collins or not having a Kyle Van Nooy, because there's a level of athleticism and versatility with those two that aren't necessary with these guys. We're talking about the different type here. So you're going to have to have all hands on deck,

cumulative effort kind of thing. And I really, I did this as a Nesson segment maybe a couple of weeks ago. And, you know, again, it was basing this a lot off of the camp stuff we saw and the 50 to 20 plays a game we saw out of Chase Winovich a year ago. I really think that's the guy that's going to be a –

this is a wild sort of hot takey kind of thing we were doing on Nesson, but I see him as potentially a double-digit sack guy eventually. Whenever you're a double-digit sack guy in the NFL, you start to slide into the rest of the league paying attention. Often Patriot guys don't get that kind of attention because it's usually a spread-the-wealth kind of situation. But we saw Chase in a limited role last year, he just was so like effective per play kind of thing. You know, maybe he was on he's on play decks in the 15 to 20, maybe 25 kind of thing.

But so he wasn't getting volume, but he was super play efficient. And what happens when a guy like that, when all of a sudden he gets 50 snaps, 55 snaps, even 60 snaps? I think that could be a really, really productive player. And if he does and he makes that jump, then I think you worry less about having Kyle or Jamie outside there. But it's an if, and you have to admit that, so we don't know where it will go. But I like the mix, just a lot of youth and a lot of haven't-yet-seen-it kind of guys on that roster.

Yeah, and I think that really is kind of encapsulating of the entire 2020 preseason in terms of a lot of, I don't want to say hype, because I think that's the wrong word here to use, but a lot of anticipation, a lot of just the feeling that Patriots fans want to see these guys on the field. They really haven't had a chance to do that. They're dealing with a lot of second and even third hand accounts. And we've acknowledged that ourselves, not having been at training camp the way we have been in the past. It's difficult to really get a

read on what a lot of these guys can do, both on the offensive and especially on the defensive side of the ball and even on special teams as well. There's always that element of mystery surrounding what the Patriots can do. And I think this year, with the lack of some of the established names that we've come to know and love here in New England for so long, like Kyle Vannoy, like Jamie Collins, even opt-outs like Dante Hightower and Patrick Chung, now I think the emphasis is going to be on execution. The execution really needs to be right on the money, as opposed to maybe some of that mystery where some of the athleticism and some of the knowledge that these players brought to the table gave them a little bit of a different look. And I think the rookies may be up to the challenge. You've mentioned a lot of great attributes on some of these guys, especially guys like Cash, Josh Uche, and Anthony Jennings.

And, of course, your glowing recommendation of Chase Winovich, which I could not agree with more. I really think this kid has a star talent written all over him. I thought it last year and I expect big things coming out of him this year as well. Matt, what can I say? I appreciate you very much for taking time today and giving us a little roster preview and insight that only a player that's been in the locker room can provide. This is something that is definitely always a treat for me when I get to share the microphone with you. Before I let you go today, please let our listeners know where they can find you, your great work, including an honorable mention here to your prowess as what I like to call the Sultan of Smoked Cuisine.

Anybody that follows Matt on Twitter knows that he is a guru when it comes to smoked meats and utilizing the outdoor barbecue when it comes to cuisine. So please, folks, trust me, you won't want to miss that. But all kidding aside, Matt, where can we catch you throughout the season and your great work? All right, Ed Chatham, 58, and they're on Nesson. So we're excited to get this year going. It's been a weird year, obviously, for the network, and we're no different, I guess, than a lot of other people. But the Bees made a bit of a run there, but then got knocked off by Tampa,

and we're kind of all sitting waiting to see what's going to happen with the Sox season. But we're excited for another sport. It's cool that I work at a place where we're driven a lot by the Bees and by the socks. And I'm just excited to get back to doing TV each night and, you know, covering this team and getting to see them in person again. So a lot of Nessun, full speed, and ready to –

I guess maybe I have to put some tailgating. Like tailgating at home, that's going to be something that people need to know about because we're going to have to – these games are a little different now, aren't we? It will be. It will be a little bit of a different look this year, especially with the first few games at the very least not housing fans in Gillette and really all over the NFL. It seems to be a trend that's following.

But my best to you to stay safe, stay well. We continue to anticipate your great coverage from Nesson, really the coverage from Nessun as a whole, whether it be your colleagues Doug Kide, Zach Cox, or anyone that's associated with the network. You guys do a great job of bringing Patriots coverage to, like you said, a network that is precipitated on the Bruins and the Red Sox, but you always deliver when it comes to the Patriots,

and we greatly anticipate it. Matt, like I said, again, thank you so much for joining me. We look forward to bringing you back here on Locked on Patriots, and we greatly anticipate it. Matt, like I said, again, thank you so much for joining me. We look forward to bringing you back here on Locked On Patriots throughout the season to bring insight like only you can. But it was truly my honor to share the microphone with you today. Thanks again, and have a happy Labor Day weekend. Yeah, thanks, Mike. Appreciate it. And so, Patriots fans, we put a bow on the week that was here on the Locked On Patriots

podcast, but our coverage of a busy weekend in Foxborough and all throughout the NFL is just beginning. Instant reaction and analysis from all the Patriots roster moves will be occurring throughout your Labor Day weekend, so please keep a sharp eye on the Locked On Patriots Twitter account at LO underscore Patriots or my official Twitter account at MDABATEFPC for the very latest news notes and analysis from Foxborough. And of course, roster analysis and preparations for the season opener against the Miami Dolphins start next week here on the Locked On Patriots podcast.

So to ensure that you do not miss a single second of the action, please subscribe to the Locked On Patriots podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow us on Spotify. Download Locked On Patriots wherever you get your podcasts. Once again, I'm Mike DeBate. I thank Matt Chatham for his time, his insight, and his appearance on today's pod. But most

of all, I thank each and every one of you so much for listening and for remaining locked into Locked On Patriots. Stay safe. Stay well. Continue to be the change you wish to see in the world. Have a great weekend, everyone.