Locked On Patriots - Daily Podcast On The New England Patriots - From Maize and Blue to Patriot Blue? - Isaiah Hole talks Patriots Draft Prospects - 4/16/2020

Episode Date: April 16, 2020

On the 20th Anniversary of the New England Patriots’ drafting Tom Brady with selection number 199 in the NFL Draft, Isaiah Hole of WolverineWire of USA Today Sports and host of Locked On Wolverines joins host Mike D’Abate to discuss several Michigan draft prospects that might look good in Patriot Blue, including OL Cesar Ruiz, WR Donovan Peoples-Jones and Edge Rusher Joshua Uche. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Patriots fans, you are now locked in to the Locked On Patriots Podcast. I'm going to show you how to make a beautiful and beautiful flower. I'm going to use a small flower pot. I'm going to use a small pot Hello to all of you Foxborough faithful, and welcome to the Lockdown Patriots Podcast, your daily home for news notes and analysis infused with the occasional opinion on your six-time Super Bowl champions, the New England Patriots. My name is Mike DeBate, your host of the Locked On Patriots podcast,

which of course is a proud part of the Locked On podcast network, your team every day. And because it's your team every day, folks, that means your questions, comments, and feedback, always welcomed and greatly appreciated. And you can share that feedback by reaching out to me and following me on Twitter at MDABATEFPC. And while you're out there wandering around through the Twitterverse, of course, at the

same time practicing your social distancing, please feel free to follow the Locked On Patriots account as well at LO underscore Patriots. Patriots fans, today is April 16th, and that means a lot of things in Patriots lore, but today it means that we are one week away from the start of the 2020 NFL Draft. And you know what that means. One more week of prognostication until the 2020 selections for all 32 NFL teams, including your New England Patriots, become official. And as you should know by now, my colleagues and I here on the Locked On Podcast Network, primarily the NFL channel, have been participating in a week-long exercise that we like to call

the Locked On NFL 2020 Mock Draft Special, meaning that my colleagues Brian Peacock and Matt Williamson, the hosts of Locked On NFL, are joined by draft experts from draftnetwork.com to analyze the picks of all 32 NFL teams. That's right, folks. Even the teams that don't have a pick in the first round got a chance to submit their wants for the upcoming NFL draft. And yesterday, Wednesday, April 15th, I, as pseudo-GM, was given the responsibility of drafting a player

for your New England Patriots with the 23rd pick. And as I shared with you yesterday here on the Locked On Patriots podcast, I chose neither to trade up or trade down. I stood pat with the number 23 pick and selected offensive lineman Cesar Ruiz out of the University of Michigan. And by and large, the feedback that I have gotten on this pick has been pretty positive. Whether it be from Brian and Matt in hosting this draft special or the experts at thedraftnetwork.com,

they truly believe that Ruiz is such a solid talent that no matter where he's drafted, he's going to make an impact on the team to which he goes. But some, including those on the Locked On NFL Mock Draft Special yesterday, did say that even though this pick was quote, very Belichickian, their words folks, not mine, that it might not be as prudent as it might have been a month or so ago, before the Patriots franchised current offensive guard and 2019 second team all-pro Joe Tooney. They've also questioned it for another reason, and that is the fact that Cesar Ruiz is technically a true center. That's his most natural position. Patriots already have a Pro Bowl caliber center. In fact,

he's one of their team captains, and that's David Andrews. And folks, I can't say that these aren't valid questions. But as you'd expect, I feel very strongly about this pick, and I have valid answers. First off, the logistics of it. Yes, the Patriots franchise Joe Tooney, who is expected to make approximately $14 million under the franchise tag this year. Of course, I say that with respect to the guru when it comes to the Patriots salary cap, my good friend, the Pats cap himself, Miguel Benzon, who has a much more accurate number than I do when it comes to that it. But again, that's a pretty big number. And if negotiations between

Tooney and the Patriots break down, then you're looking at a player with a pretty hefty salary playing on a mere one-year deal. That means the Patriots may look to move Tooney. And if they do, there is no better option out there on the free agent market via trade or through the NFL draft than Cesar Ruiz. He is that type of generational talent that is simply just too great of an offer for the Patriots to refuse. And yes, folks, that pun was intended. The other reason is when it comes to David Andrews. And look, there is no one that respects or likes David Andrews more than I do. Nothing would thrill me more than for him to have a complete recovery and continue what I hope is going to be a long, prosperous career in the NFL. But folks, David

wasn't just suffering from injury that required surgical repair. He was suffering from blood clots in his lungs. That is a very serious condition. And while I acknowledge that it is fully possible for him to recover and move forward without a hitch, there's always the possibility that David's health could change his circumstances. If that's the case, Ruiz is the type of center that you can anchor an offensive line around for many years to come. So even though the Patriots are quote-unquote set at the position, they, along with pretty much every other NFL team, play such a premium on offensive line play that when the opportunity comes to draft a player that can provide great offensive line play, you take it and you take it with both hands.

But as I said yesterday here to close the show on Locked On Patriots, don't just take my word for it. In fact, you might want to hear it from a guy who covered Cesar Ruiz throughout his entire career at the University of Michigan. I am honored today to welcome Isaiah Hull, publisher of the Wolverine Wire for USA Today Sports and the host of Lockdown Wolverines right here on the Lockdown Podcast Network to join me right here today on the Lockdown Patriots Hot Seat. We'll discuss Ruiz's prowess, his limitations, and what type of a Patriot he might make.

And Cesar Ruiz is not the only Wolverine I have my eye on as a potential Patriots target this year. We'll pick his brain on that as well. So sit tight, folks. An action-packed show today, one that I hope you will greatly enjoy. And get set for some maize and blue wisdom and counsel from Isaiah Hull when the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. Patriots fans, my decision to select Cesar Ruiz with the 23rd pick in the Locked On NFL 2020 Mock Draft Special has been described as Belichickian, surprising, and even a bit against the grain. But as I stated to open the show today, there are a number of reasons that I chose to go in this direction.

But don't just take my word for it, folks. Be prepared to absorb the wisdom and counsel of an expert that knows Cesar Ruiz quite well from his days with the maize and blue of an expert that knows Cesar Ruiz quite well from his days with the maize and blue of the Michigan Wolverines. He is the publisher of Wolverine Wire of USA Today Sports and the host of the Locked On Wolverines podcast here on the Locked On Podcast Network. Isaiah Hull joins me today. Isaiah, thank you humbling for joining me today and welcome to the Locked On Patriots

podcast. Absolutely, Mike. Always a pleasure and definitely, you know, it's my pleasure being able to come on here and talk a little bit of Michigan football. Without question. Talk a little Michigan football. And yes, we do love our Michigan football up here in New England. And don't worry, folks, I will get to that tidbit in just a moment. But Isaiah, one of the primary reasons that I asked you to come on today's show was to

lend a little insight on my selection for the 2020 NFL Mock Draft here on the Locked On Podcast Network, and that is offensive lineman Cesar Ruiz with the number 23 pick. From the time I started scouting the acumen of Cesar Ruiz, I identified him as the prototypical patriot. Knowing the premium that this franchise places on offensive linemen, Ruiz just had that blend of size, power, mobility, and technique that just made him that generational talent. Even though the Patriots franchise Joe Tooney, who folks, I'm not overlooking, and I hold Joe in very high regard, especially as a second team all-pro guard, but I still have

no wavering in making this pick. I just think his impact on the line is going to be indelible, but you know his body of work much better than I do. From your time in covering him in Ann Arbor, what about Cesar Ruiz makes him a difference maker at the NFL level? Well, he's got everything you're looking for. That's why I'm not that surprised that as a junior-level prospect that he decided that he was going to go ahead and go pro early and that we're seeing him get this early uh these types of early grades that he seems like the further along we go we're seeing more first round draft uh mock drafts with uh Ruiz getting to to go either sometime in the last couple of picks or even as high as you picked him at 23.

I think it's just a level of intelligence and maturity that really is what makes him stand out above everything else. Because, yeah, he's got the power. He's going to be an absolute force when it comes to run blocking, pass blocking over the course of his career. I believe I read he only gave up a grand total of three sacks. And I remember one of those sacks was in his very first game as a starter in 2017 when he had to come in and replace Michael Onwenu, who was the right guard, starting right guard, who was out for most of the rest of the season. That's kind of how Ruiz got thrust into early action

and making an early crucial mistake. It's one of those things that the fact that he made that early mistake and then you basically didn't ever see it again. That speaks to his intelligence. Obviously, you have to be incredibly intelligent if you're going to be a center. He got his start at Michigan at right guard, but he came in as a pure center. He continued to play center once he was back healthy the following next year. Got to go in as center for the next two years, this past one and the one before.

And he was just absolutely – I don't really know if I have a word for it, but he was perfect in that role in the sense that he always knew how to identify defense, change the blocking assignments. And Michigan really had a lot of issues on the offensive line before Ruiz got that role yeah part of it has to do probably with Ed Warner also getting the offensive line coaching job because we know it's the pedigree that he brings to the table but on top of that Ruiz just really was masterful and he was one of those guys where you almost didn't even talk about him that much here in Ann Arbor because he's kind of like one of those cornerbacks, like a lockdown corner where you don't even talk about him because

quarterbacks don't throw at him. It's kind of similar with Ruiz. He's like, wasn't making any mistakes, was a force in run blocking, held his own in pass blocking. His maturity and intelligence really showed off as far as that's concerned. But where we really did talk about Ruiz a lot here in Ann Arbor was just how much of a leader he was. Michigan didn't have any junior captains this year because they only picked three team captains. But I have no doubt that if they would have done like the year before and had 14 captains, but I have no doubt that if they would have done like the year before and had

14 captains, that Ruiz certainly could have been picked as that guy, because I thought, I think he, not I think, actually, I know having spoken to a lot of the other Michigan players, he was so highly revered in the locker room. He was known as a guy that could both alleviate a lot of stress because he was known as like a fun-loving type guy, but they also looked to him as a leader, as a guy that they could really count on. And I think you could see that in the results, especially just how much better Michigan's offensive line was the last two years, especially in blocking scenarios, which is where they really failed before he took over as the center great insight isaiah especially when it comes to ruiz's versatility and his leadership

ability i think he can make an impact on the offensive line at any of the interior spots because he displays outstanding mobility he's highly effective working laterally and in space and his versatility extends beyond just the ability to play any spot along the interior. He has the attributes needed to thrive in both gap and zone-blocking run schemes. To me, that makes him such a great fit in the Patriots' offensive line, and again, one of the reasons why I think he's worth that high draft capital at number 23 for the Patriots to take a flyer on. But Isaiah, if there is a knock on Ruiz's game, and there really aren't many of

them, I've found there to be some instances where a touch more patience and pass protection would be helpful in his efforts to both frame and mirror. His feet can get a bit antsy from some of the footage that I've seen on him. Now, as you may or may not know, the Patriots' longtime offensive line coach Dante Skarnecchia has decided to retire and he's been the ultimate mentor to young linemen throughout the years here in New England would you say that he has the ability to get past that change in coaching and make an immediate impact on the offensive line this year well I mean he he's already shown that adaptability in Ann Arbor because he's essentially been under three offenses in three years. Because when he arrived in 2017, Michigan at that time had not only Pep Hamilton

as the pass game coordinator, was kind of the de facto offensive coordinator, even though Tim Drevno had that actual title. Tim Drevno was the offensive coordinator, but he was essentially the offensive line coach. But then they also hired another offensive line coach that was there just that season, Greg Fry. Tim Drefno was more of a power type philosophy when it came to scheme and blocking for offensive lines, whereas Fry was all about zone blocking. So you had these two different philosophies, and then you had

on top of that, you had a pass game coordinator who was mostly seemingly calling the shots that State, I shouldn't say longtime, but he was Ohio State's offensive coordinator and offensive line coach when they won the college football playoff in 2014. He was with Urban for the first several years. He had spent a year in Minnesota and then came to Michigan. Well, he professes zone blocking because, as he puts it it zone blocking can block everything anything a defense throws at you so then Michigan went almost strictly to zone schemes got away from the gaps and power stuff and went strictly to zone well then Pat Hamilton left for the XFL that next year and Michigan brought in Josh Gaddis the Alabama co-offensive coordinator, who runs what he calls a pro spread in space. And therefore,

while they did still utilize a lot of the zone concepts, they did move a little bit more to a bit of a mixture. So they went back to a little bit of the power stuff to go along with running inside zone, outside zone, stretch plays, all those things. So the fact that he excelled as much as he did, having to essentially learn what to do all three different years, because it was a drastic change this past year and it wasn't also a pretty

drastic change the year before so the fact that he was able to lead the charge on Michigan's offensive line two years running well they completely changed philosophies kind of tells you everything you need to know he's extremely coachable that's why like I said earlier he doesn't make a lot of mistakes. And when he does make a mistake, he does tend to learn pretty quickly and tends not to make those mistakes again. And that's something that we really hadn't seen a lot of on Michigan's offensive line.

The several years prior, it was a lot of guys that were, not necessarily, I was going to say especially the center position, but the center position was kind of a revolving door so he actually created a consistent situation and I think that that helped bolster what we were able to see at Michigan and that speaks a lot and gives a lot of credit to what Ruiz is capable of as far as digesting his uh as far as digesting what is given to him and the constant changes that Michigan's faced up front on offense. I agree. And again, it speaks to his adaptability.

Ruiz, to me, is that type of guy that has wisdom beyond his years. And if he's called upon to play the guard position, even though he's technically a true center, I think he can do both. And I think he can excel on either side of the guard position. And of course, in the center position, if David Andrews has any lingering or recurring health issues that stem from the lung injury that kept him out all of last season. Isaiah, great insight on Cesar Ruiz. You've definitely helped to quell some of the concerns that our listeners have regarding

him, and I want to thank you for making me feel just a little bit smarter regarding my choice as pseudo-GM for the New England Patriots in this year's 2020 Mock Draft Special on the Locked On Podcast Network. But Cesar is not the only Wolverine that has top-level pro potential this year. In just a moment, Isaiah will provide his top-level insight on which Wolverine to keep a sharp eye when the Locked On Patriots podcast continues. Pats fans, once again, I am joined today by the publisher of Wolverine Wire and the host of Locked On Wolverines, Isaiah Hull. And Isaiah, the depth of Michigan talent come draft time is seldom, if ever, disappointing,

and this year is no different. We have spent some time on Cesar Ruiz, and understandably so, but two other players in particular have caught my eye as targets for the Patriots, both filling potential needs and providing that top 100 player caliber impact. One is Donovan Peoples-Jones, a wide receiver that has the ability to adjust to the football, and I think that makes him a pretty good fit in New England. And the other is on the defensive side of the ball, in-edge rusher Joshua Uche, who despite a lack of playing time in 2019, should still be an asset as an outside rusher or

an interior blitzer. If you could tell us a bit more about both Peoples-Jones and Uche, and where you believe they are likely to be taken during next week's draft. I'll start with Uche, because I think he's more of the instant impact guy. It's funny because Uche, I feel like a lot of teams don't know what to do with him because of his versatility. Teams look at Isaiah Simmons at Clemson and kind of salivate. Well, he's that type of player. He wasn't an every-down guy at Michigan kind of because schematically for what Michigan wants to do, he just didn't, he wasn't an every down guy at Michigan, kind of because schematically

for what Michigan wants to do, he just didn't fit the personnel, which is why you saw more as an edge rusher. But he technically at Michigan was a Sam linebacker. But the thing is, Michigan tends to only use the Sam linebacker on third down because they have a position that they call the viper, which fills that, you know, strong side linebacker role. But it's a hybrid linebackers safety combination. And that was what Khali Hudson played. And that player is on the field at all times. But Uche, and he saw a little bit more on this year than he did last year.

But Uche at first was looked at as just a strict edge rusher, pass rusher particularly. And yet, it's kind of funny because he's so much more versatile than that. And he really kind of came into his own this past year because they started to use him in a little bit more different situations. And the funny part I was going to mention there is a lot of Michigan fans were referring to him as a defensive end. And I know that sometimes you see that in some of the NFL designations. That's kind of pigeonholing him for just one thing that he can do because we've seen him being able to drop into coverage.

I think the best example was against Penn State at Penn State this last season. Michigan started utilizing a lot more zone this year after some of the troubles that Ohio State's receivers gave them in 2018. So they started peppering in more zone starting right out the gates, but midway through the season, when they went and played Penn State, they would often show Uche. He'd come up to the line, and then he'd back into coverage. He ran back with K.J. Hamler, the speedy eaglet, as they call K.J. Hamler. He's kind of a slot-type receiver. People are projecting him to be probably like a second round

draft choice and he's super fast and i knew that because i covered kj as a as a high school recruit as well uche covered him on this uh on this post route a skinny post that was deep downfield got all the way down there and knocked the ball away from KJ Hamlin. And the ball wasn't under thrown or anything like that. Uche is literally just that fast, which is kind of what you expect from a guy that's from Miami, but he's big, he's fast, he's physical. Jedrick Wills from Alabama, who many people think could be a top 10 draft pick next week.

He was asked at the NFL Combine, who's the best SEC pass rusher you faced? And he said, well, the best pass rusher I faced wasn't in the SEC at all. It was Josh Uche from Michigan. That kind of should tell you everything you need to know about both of those things, that he can do a little bit of everything and I think that some people mistake his lack of uh lack of on field time for uh for being that Michigan didn't think he was good enough it was more that just Michigan's scheme had to find ways to get him on the field which they did a lot more of this year than they did in previous years but at the same time, he wasn't – he was just –

I guess it's one of those things, like I said at the top there, that he's just so versatile. You kind of almost don't know what to do with him. I think he would go really well in any scheme that uses multiple fronts, that goes in between a 4-3 and a 3-4. I don't really know offhand what New England runs these days. I didn't watch them as much this past year as I have in recent years. Because, yeah, New England has kind of been my adopted team.

But NFL just didn't have a lot of time for it as much this past year. But Uche can kind of fit in into a bunch of different roles that you put him in. He's a guy that Jim Nagy from the Senior Bowl also said was the most impressive all week. And I think that speaks volumes. Donovan Peoples-Jones is a different case, however, in the sense of if you were to go up and down and rate everyone by athleticism and potential, I think that Peoples Jones would easily be a top five pick. But production-wise, it's kind of the opposite of what Uche had, in that Peoples Jones was on the field quite a lot

and never really showed off exactly why he was the number one receiver coming out of the 2017 recruiting class. Has all the talent in the world, can jump out the gym. You saw that at the NFL Combine when he had the best vertical jump this past year, and it wasn't even particularly close. We've seen that he is an absolute physical freak. He can do things that most people, even in the NFL, can't do, but sometimes it seems like there's a lack of focus for him. I point to the Ohio State game

when there was a drive where there were three straight passes that hit him right in the hand, and he dropped all three of them, ending in a three and out. He dropped a touchdown in that game. He's got speed. He's got a lot of things you want. Ball tracking, like I mentioned. But I really think he's got to work on his focus, especially with his hands, his route running, and his ability to get off the line of scrimmage because he didn't really have the look of some of his counterparts because you keep in mind a lot of these guys he's in this draft with he was rated higher than as a

recruit and it wasn't even particularly close but yet he never came up with a similar production I thought he was a fine receiver at Michigan and I think if he was like a middling four star people would be looking at him a little bit differently but at the same time his best football is definitely ahead of him I do think that he will be able to because I think all of all of the issues that he has are correctable mistakes it's not like in an you know in an eight lack of athletic ability or talent he has all that in his spades. What he really needs is someone that can teach him to be able to do some of these things a bit better than what he's

been able to do thus far. He's also a victim of having to go through essentially three different offensive schemes in three years as well. That could certainly play a part of it. He had some injury concerns last year in the offseason, which carried into the season. I don't know that he was ever 100% this year. So that might be a part of it.

But I do think that any team that picks him, I would imagine he's going to be a day three pick based off of just kind of what I've seen. He has the talent to be a day one pick, but I guess the inconsistency of what he was able to show in his career has probably pushed him back. I wouldn't be surprised if he went in the day two based off of his combine performance, but I know people are going to be looking at those, you know, watching the film and noting some of those glaring inconsistencies and realizing that he's got some work to do once he gets to the next level. I do think he'll end up being a number one or number two wide receiver type in his career, but he's got to earn it and he's got to show that he can do things a little bit more consistently than he did when he was in Ann Arbor. Great stuff and I thank you for the analysis on both. Just a couple of points that I wanted to expound upon. First, when it comes to Uche, I really like this kid the more film that I watch on him. To answer your question about the Patriots' defensive scheme in 2019,

they ran much more of a 3-4 set, and that was because they had a lot of versatility at the linebacker position. Kyle Van Noy, Jamie Collins, both of those players are actually gone. So to me, a guy like Uha coming in here might pair nicely with another guy you're quite familiar with, a former Michigan Wolverine in Chase Winovich, who had a great rookie campaign here in 2019. I look for big things out of him in 2020. And the second point I wanted to expound on a little bit was with regard to Peoples Jones. Based on your insight, I'm thinking he may project as a little bit more of a project than the Patriots might want this year. Don't forget, it's going to be a new signal caller in New England for the first time in 20 years. They

might be looking for a talent that's a little bit more NFL ready, but who knows? If the Patriots do see him on day two or day three still available, they might want to take a flyer on him because there's definitely talent at that position. But I thank you for the insight on both, and who knows, maybe the pass rush in New England might have a little Michigan flavor when it comes to a guy like Josh Uche or definitely with a guy like Chase Winovich. I got to give a shout out to Chase because he just released,

he just started his YouTube channel and the first episode dropped yesterday. And man, that was fun. And Chase is my guy. So I really love him. And I think that if Patriot fans don't already love him, they'll definitely grow to love him in very, very short order because he's not only got the skills and the similar thing as Tom Brady,

which is why I think those two got along so well, that he's got that underdog mentality at all times, and he had that at Michigan. Chase wasn't even a guy that was on the radar at Michigan his first couple years. Kind of an afterthought, and he became a household name. But, yeah, if you haven't seen his YouTube video, and it's professionally produced,

and there's a bunch of more episodes coming, and it just looks like A, an absolute perfect encapsulation of the craziness that is Chase Winovich and B, just highly entertaining. Without question. I mean, I can tell you from personal experience, Chase is already beloved up here in New England and there are a lot of reasons for that. What he brings on the field is obviously first and foremost, but he also has that personality to be able to succeed here in New England. I was in the Patriots media draft room last year when Chase was drafted, and there was an immediate buzz throughout the room. Not just that the Patriots had found that steel type of talent, but also the type of player that is

going to be a joy to cover. I had a blast covering him last year. I can't wait to see how he cultivates that talent and grows into his personality. So definitely check out that YouTube video, folks. But lastly, Isaiah, it might be fitting that you have joined us here today on Locked On Patriots because 20 years ago today, April 16th, 2000, the Michigan Wolverines provided the Patriots with the greatest diamond in the rough in NFL history. When New England selected Tom Brady with the 199th pick in the sixth round of the 2000 NFL draft. Now, at the time, none of us really knew what we were getting, but ultimately what we were getting was 20 years of dominance, and we thank you for that. And not that we're expecting another manna-from-heaven-like gift from Michigan this year,

but Isaiah, who is the player in maize and blue that you believe is kind of flying under the radar with a big upside to contribute to an NFL team this year? In other words, who are we sleeping on and really shouldn't be sleeping on as we head toward Thursday's draft? Well, aside from Uche, who I think, obviously Uche is likely to be a second-day guy, so he probably doesn't fit that rubric. I think that's about as close as you're going to get. But the other one I would say is Mike Dana,

who I haven't seen in any seven-round mock draft, and he only played for one year at Michigan. He saw very limited playing time, in part because of Uche, but also because Michigan had already had two entrenched starting defensive ends. Yeah, they were both going into their first year as starters, but that was obvious that Quidipe and Aiden Hutchinson were going to be the guys. But Mike Zanna transferred from Central Michigan. He had one of the – he had like a top five grade of all defensive ends

in the country from pro football focus. Really only saw some spot time for Michigan but he kind of took over from Donovan Peoples-Jones as the guy that was named as the most freakish athlete in the locker room once he got to Michigan people were just shocked at like his work ethic and his ability and all of the different things that he was able to do athletically. And I just think that people are sleeping on him. And he didn't get an NFL combine invite.

And then obviously didn't get to have his pro day either because it was canceled the day before due to coronavirus. That's the guy that I think whoever gets him, whether it be a late day three pick or an undrafted free agent, I mean, he's going to absolutely make a 53-man roster. Like, there's no doubt in my mind that, like, I cannot foresee, and, you know, maybe old takes exposed can expose me if I'm wrong, but I cannot foresee Mike Dana getting picked up in one way, shape, or form or another, and then being cut because he is just an absolute beast. He is technically

proficient. He's a guy that Sean Newell, Michigan's defensive line coach, just absolutely loved. We only saw glimpses and glimmers of production because there were just already too many bodies there for him to be an every-down guy. And I know usually you'd say, like, well, he would supplant one of the other guys, but that just, you know, you also don't take out another guy that's of a similar, you know, similar skill set and supplant him so they just tried to find

situations to get him in as often as possible and he was just an absolute beast I don't know why people aren't talking about him underappreciated probably similar to Tom Brady I know he was underappreciated in Ann Arbor I was pretty sports ignorant at the time. I watched every Michigan game back in 98, 99. I started at Michigan in 99, but I did not know anything about Drew Henson. So I was just, I remember before I started classes at Ann Arbor, I was thinking very privately, I didn't let my friends know this, but I was like, what if I have classes with Tom Brady and we become best friends and he becomes this big NFL star? Little did I know, no one in Ann Arbor was thinking that Tom Brady was going to become a big NFL star. So I could at least say I had the foresight. It might've been based out of

ignorance, but I can at least say that I had the foresight that I thought Tom Brady was going to become a superstar. Maybe not quite this much, but yeah, I think that that would probably be the closest, the closest guy, Mike Dana. I wouldn't be surprised if a guy like either Michael on when you, the Michigan's right guard, he's an absolute behemoth came in. They said 360 pounds, which is what he actually does weigh now it was probably closer to 400 and a lot of that was bad weight when he arrived as a freshman ended up really honing in as far as the strength and conditioning he's an immovable force he got to be a really technically proficient particularly this last year he's projected as a late-round picker undrafted.

He's a guy that I think has – I would have projected to be a second-round draft pick. I think he's an absolute perfect guy to come in and be a starting guard at pretty much any team. I'm just kind of surprised that he's not gotten a lot more love. Another guy pro football focus really light. And then Sean McCune, tight end. He, a lot of the tight ends that Michigan's had over the years, even when Sean McCune was like a true freshman,

they would tell me that he was the most technically proficient textbook, everything you're looking for tight end that they had ever seen. That he was the absolute model of what a tight end is supposed to be and the ability of blocking and catching. Obviously not quite as big or dominant as a guy like Gronk. But Michigan wasn't really asking their tight ends. They were asking a lot of their tight ends, but not nearly to the degree that some others do. So I think that he's another guy that is projected to be a late-round pick that could be a diamond in the rough, could end up becoming one of those, like a Travis Kelsey type.

6'5", I think he's like 250, 260 pounds, really kind of bulked up over the last few years. Has good hands, good route running ability. I could see him really taking a big step forward when he gets to the league as well. Isaiah, what can I say? I thank you so much for your insight. Great, great pearls of wisdom when it comes to players that might be flying under the radar for

the Michigan Wolverines. We definitely wish all of them luck in the NFL draft upcoming. And I thank you today for joining me, one of the true experts on all things Michigan Wolverines athletics. And if it's any consolation, my friend, I would like to think that your insight into Tom Brady was wisdom beyond your years, rather than just happenstance, because we are eternally grateful for the 20 years that he gave us here in New England. And most of us here in New England with a level head do wish him the best in Tampa Bay for those in our circle of New England and Patriots nation that may not know where to find you and your great work, Isaiah.

Please enlighten us as to where we may be able to find that and interact with you on social media. You can find the bulk of my work at wolverineswire.usatoday.com. You can find Wolverines Wire on Twitter at Wolverines Wire. Find me on Twitter

at Isaiah Hull. And Lockdown Wolverines, we post it on WolverinesWire on Twitter, at WolverinesWire. Find me on Twitter, at Isaiah Hull. And Lockdown Wolverines, we post it on WolverinesWire. You can find it on just anywhere you can find Lockdown Patriots, iTunes, Google, Spotify, all of the above. Or on WolverinesWire. I post it there every day as well. Absolutely, folks. Highly recommended.

We are highly grateful to the Michigan Wolverines for giving us some great New England Patriots, both past and present. Isaiah, good luck to you with your coverage of the NFL draft. Good luck to the Wolverines this year. Hopefully, we'll get college and pro football and sports back sooner rather than later, but stay safe, stay well, and thanks again for your appearance today. Much appreciated. Absolutely. My pleasure, Mike. Appreciate you.

Appreciate you as well, my friend. Take care. And so, folks, the last full week before the 2020 NFL Draft is almost in the books here on the Locked On Patriots podcast. And my guest today, Isaiah Hull, provided you with so much maize and blue wisdom and counsel. I'm sure it's given you a lot to think about both this week and next as we march toward next Thursday's draft. But before we adjourn for the day here on Locked On Patriots,

you really didn't think I was going to let today go by without commemorating some of the signature moments that make today a red-letter date in Patriots history. First off, I'd like to wish a very happy 28th birthday to Patriots long snapper Joe Cardona. Joe is one of the best special teamers and long snappers in the league, and at the age of 28, he is not only a Patriot on the field, but a Patriot off the field as well. He is a graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy and is also an officer in the United States Naval Reserve, holding the

rank of lieutenant. So he is a hero on the field and off. Happy birthday, Joe. Many happy returns. But Joe is not the only one celebrating a birthday in Patriots Nation this year, because Joe shares his special day with the main man in charge. That's right, folks. Head coach Bill Belichick turned 68 years young today. As Mike Reese of ESPN stated this morning in his column, this should serve up as a reminder of his football longevity. Belichick is the second oldest NFL head coach behind Seattle's Pete Carroll,

who turned 69 on September 15th. Tampa Bay's Bruce Arians at 67. And Minnesota's Mike Zimmer at 63 are next in line. All three great coaches. Have tons of respect for all of them. But when it comes to resumes and rings, folks, yeah, not just measuring up. Happy birthday, coach.

Again, many more happy returns from all of us here at the Locked On Patriots podcast. And last but certainly not least, as I stated in my conversation with Isaiah Holt, April 16th will always hold a special place in the heart of every single Patriots fan. On that day, with pick number 199 in the sixth round, Thomas Edward Patrick Brady Jr. became a New England Patriot. And 20 years later, six Super Bowl titles and a plethora of great memories. And even though at the time, most of us didn't know what we had. And folks, even though that draft pick may not have been the one for which you had hoped, in the final analysis, it was the one for which we had always dreamed. Happy anniversary, Tom.

In our book, you'll always be forever a Patriot. But as for me, I will be back right here tomorrow to bring you the latest news notes and analysis from Foxborough and put a bow on the week that was here on the Locked On Patriots podcast. Please be sure to subscribe via Apple Podcasts, follow us on Spotify, and don't forget, you can always listen to us on your smart device. How do you do that? Very simple. Simply tell it to play the latest episode of Locked On Patriots.

And if you've enjoyed today's episode, now tell your smart device to play the latest episode of Locked On NFL Draft. Once again, I am Mike DeBate. I thank Isaiah Hull for his time, his insight, and his appearance on today's show. But most of all, I thank you so much for listening and for staying locked in to Locked On Patriots. Stay safe, stay well, and have a great day, everyone.